cross-staff slur
Hello,
I would like to add a slur to this kind of arpeggio. Since it is written
in both staves of the Piano Staff I can't use the parentheses. Can you
tell me, how to write nice slurs above and below this arpeggio?
Thanks,
Helge
\version "2.12"
\include "deutsch.ly"
global = {
\key c \major
\time 4/4
\set tieWaitForNote = ##t
}
one= \relative c' {
\stemUp
r4 g'16 ~ h ~ e ~ c ~ 2 |
}
two = \relative c {
\clef bass
\set tieWaitForNote = ##t
cis,16 ~ as' ~ f' ~ c' ~ 2. |
}
\score {
\new PianoStaff <<
\new Staff << \global \one >>
\new Staff << \global \two >>
>>
}
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Cross-staff slur
I'm trying to get a cross-staff slur within a
PianoStaff. I didn't find any easy ways of doing this
in the manual (I'm still using 2.6.5) and so have
tried to fudge it by putting all the notes I need
slurred in one voice and then putting the \change
Staff command within the Voice context.
My problem then is that there is a big space between
the beginning of the slur and the notehead. I've tried
altering properties of the Slur grob including
#'height-limit and #'ratio but I can't get what I
want. Any suggestions?
The code I've got looks like this:
\override Slur #'height-limit = #10 % just to test
\override Slur #'ratio = #0.8 % sharp initial incline
<<
\new Voice {r16 \stemDown g([ aes] \change Staff =
upper f''[ e])}
\stemNeutral
\new Voice {s8. r8 r8. g,,16}
>>
Many thanks,
Vivian.
My new website - www.vivbt.tk
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Cross staff slur help
I have a piece of piano music from the opening chorus of The Gondoliers that I'm struggling to get my head round. A scan is attached. It's a cross-staff slur, but my problem is that the music in the left hand is still continuing (the crochet F) while the slur is crossing the staves. I can't work out a) how to start setting this in LilyPond or b) what it means in performance. Can anyone help? -- Phil Holmes <>___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: cross-staff slur
Am 18.03.2010 21:52, schrieb Helge Kruse:
Hello,
I would like to add a slur to this kind of arpeggio. Since it is written
in both staves of the Piano Staff I can't use the parentheses. Can you
tell me, how to write nice slurs above and below this arpeggio?
I made some further experiments. I got the phrasing slur with a staff
change in the second measure. But the chord in the lower staff sounds at
the same time when the arpeggio in the upper staff is played. So I tried
polyphony in measure three.
But I don't get the slur to it. How do I write the score similar as in
the graphic?
Helge
\version "2.12"
\include "deutsch.ly"
one= \relative c' {
\stemUp
\set tieWaitForNote = ##t
s4 g'16~ h~ e~ c~ 2 |
r4 s2. |
}
two = \relative c {
\clef bass
\set tieWaitForNote = ##t
cis,16~ as'~ f'~ c'~ 2. |
cis,,16( as' f' c'
\change Staff=upper
g'16 h e c)
\change Staff=lower s2 |
<< {
\set tieWaitForNote = ##t
cis,,16(~ as'~ f'~ c'~ 2.
} \\ {
\stemUp
\set tieWaitForNote = ##t
\change Staff=upper
s4 g16~ h~ e~ c)~ 2
\change Staff=lower
} >>
}
\score { \new PianoStaff <<
\new Staff=upper << \one >>
\new Staff=lower << \two >>
>> }
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Re: cross-staff slur
Helge Kruse wrote:
I made some further experiments.
Well, I messed around a bit.
I certainly wasn't doing experiments; that makes it sound systematic.
My slurs often silently ignored the staff change; no idea why.
Two offerings, FWIW:
A: no cross-staff in right hand.
B: cross-staff in both hands
B can be troublesome because it has to begin with a staff change.
This doesn't work if there is no music coming before.
Cheers,
Robin
\version "2.12"
\include "deutsch.ly"
rhA= \transpose c c' {
\mark \markup "A"
\hideNotes
\voiceTwo
g,1*1/8^(
\unHideNotes
\oneVoice
r4*1/2
\voiceOne
\set tieWaitForNote = ##t
g16 ~ h16 ~ e'16 ~ c'16 ~ 2) |
}
lhA = {
\oneVoice
\set tieWaitForNote = ##t
cis,16 _(~ as,16 ~ f16 ~ c'16 ~ 2.*1/3
\change Staff = upper
\voiceThree
\hideNotes
c'1*1/2) |
\unHideNotes
\change Staff = lower
}
rhB = \transpose c c' {
\mark \markup "B"
\hideNotes
\change Staff = lower
\voiceTwo
g,4^(
\unHideNotes
\change Staff = upper
\voiceOne
\set tieWaitForNote = ##t
g16 ~ h16 ~ e'16 ~ c'16 ~ 2) |
}
rhBrest = { \oneVoice r4 s2. }
lhB = {
\oneVoice
\set tieWaitForNote = ##t
cis,16_( ~ as,16 ~ f16 ~ c'16 ~ 2.*1/3
\change Staff = upper
\voiceThree
\hideNotes
c'2) |
\unHideNotes
\change Staff = lower
}
\score { \new PianoStaff <<
\new Staff=upper {
s1
\rhA
s1
<< \rhB \\ \rhBrest >>
s1
}
\new Staff=lower { \clef bass
s1
\lhA
s1
\lhB
s1
}
>>
}
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Re: cross staff slur
Hi Ming,
On 20.09.2016 14:32, MING TSANG wrote:
hi, lilyponders:
I have difficulty to generate the following by lilypond v2.19.47
1. in clef bass bar2 I cannot generate " f'2. "-- it warns bar
check, i can only make it " f'2 "
You need parallel music expressions.
2. in clef bass bar3 I don't know how to code the " d'4 " -- why
produces cross staff beam?
The d' also requires a parallel music expression; the cross staff beam
is produced because in 4/4, eigth notes are normally beamed by half bar.
If you really don’t want the beam, you can either use manual beaming []
or adjust automatic behaviour by \set Timing.beamExceptions = #'() or by
adjusting the default for 4/4 with \overrideTimeSignatureSettings. This
is described in NR 1.2.4, ‘Setting automatic beam behavior’.
3. starting slur is too high bar 2
Try \shape.
HTH, Simon
\version "2.19.47"
\language "english"
expandVar =
#(define-music-function (xx start stop) (list? index? index?)
#{ #@(map (lambda (i) #{ $xx . #i #}) (iota (- stop start -1) start)) #})
#(set-global-staff-size 18.0)
\header {
title = "ç¡ç¡ææ©"
subtitle = "Forever Thanks"
composer = "æ²è© : éé§è³¢"
arranger = "ç¼ : ä½é æ·³"
}
\layout {
\context {
\Voice
\consists "Melody_engraver"
\override Stem #'neutral-direction = #'()
}
}
global = {
\key ef \major
\numericTimeSignature
\time 4/4
\partial 4
\tempo "Andante" 4=86
}
rht.116 = { bf''8 g'' |\break }
rht.117 = { \time 2/4 2 | }
rht.118 = { \time 4/4 r4 s2. }
rht.119 = { r4 s2. | }
rht.120 = { 2 | }
rht.121 = { s1 | }
rht.122 = { s1 | }
right = {
\global
\expandVar \rht 116 122
}
lft.116 = { r4 | }
lft.117 = { \time 2/4 2 | }
lft.118 = <<
{ \time 4/4 s4 f'2. | }
\new Voice { ef8( bf \change Staff = right r8 g'8 2) | }
>>
lft.119 = <<
{ s4 d' 2 }
\new Voice { c8( g \change Staff = right g'8 c'' 2) }
>>
lft.120 = { 2 |}
lft.121 = { ef,16( bf, ef f g bf ef' f' \change Staff = right g'16 bf' ef'' f'' g'' bf'' ef''' f''' | }
lft.122 = { g'''1\fermata) |}
left = {
\global
\expandVar \lft 116 122
}
pianoPart = \new PianoStaff \with {
instrumentName = "Piano"
} <<
\new Staff = "right" \with {
midiInstrument = "acoustic grand"
} \right
\new Staff = "left" \with {
midiInstrument = "acoustic grand"
} { \clef bass \left }
>>
\score {
<<
\pianoPart
>>
\layout { }
}
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Re: cross staff slur
Simon,Thank you very much for the help.Ming. From: Simon Albrecht To: MING TSANG ; Lilypond-usermailinglist Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2016 10:27 AM Subject: Re: cross staff slur Hi Ming, On 20.09.2016 14:32, MING TSANG wrote: > hi, lilyponders: > I have difficulty to generate the following by lilypond v2.19.47 > 1. in clef bass bar2 I cannot generate " f'2. "-- it warns bar > check, i can only make it " f'2 " You need parallel music expressions. > 2. in clef bass bar3 I don't know how to code the " d'4 " -- why > produces cross staff beam? The d' also requires a parallel music expression; the cross staff beam is produced because in 4/4, eigth notes are normally beamed by half bar. If you really don’t want the beam, you can either use manual beaming [] or adjust automatic behaviour by \set Timing.beamExceptions = #'() or by adjusting the default for 4/4 with \overrideTimeSignatureSettings. This is described in NR 1.2.4, ‘Setting automatic beam behavior’. > 3. starting slur is too high bar 2 Try \shape. HTH, Simon ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Cross staff slur help
- Original Message - From: "David Kastrup" To: Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 2:44 PM Subject: Re: Cross staff slur help "Phil Holmes" writes: I have a piece of piano music from the opening chorus of The Gondoliers that I'm struggling to get my head round. A scan is attached. It's a cross-staff slur, but my problem is that the music in the left hand is still continuing (the crochet F) while the slur is crossing the staves. I can't work out a) how to start setting this in LilyPond or b) what it means in performance. Can anyone help? It's a rising melody line starting in the left hand and moving to the right. The "music in the left hand" is _not_ "still continuing" in the execution, but it would be silly to write an actual rest here while the sustain pedal is down. OK. Thanks. So that's probably a case for f4*1/4 in the input. Sorry - I don't understand. What does this mean? -- Phil Holmes ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Cross staff slur help
"Phil Holmes" writes: > I have a piece of piano music from the opening chorus of The > Gondoliers that I'm struggling to get my head round. A scan is > attached. It's a cross-staff slur, but my problem is that the music > in the left hand is still continuing (the crochet F) while the slur is > crossing the staves. I can't work out a) how to start setting this in > LilyPond or b) what it means in performance. > > Can anyone help? It's a rising melody line starting in the left hand and moving to the right. The "music in the left hand" is _not_ "still continuing" in the execution, but it would be silly to write an actual rest here while the sustain pedal is down. So that's probably a case for f4*1/4 in the input. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Cross staff slur help
On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 05:23:20PM -, Phil Holmes wrote: > - Original Message - From: "David Kastrup" > >So that's probably a case for f4*1/4 in the input. > > Sorry - I don't understand. What does this mean? "draw an f crotchet (i.e. no beams), but consider that note to be a semiquaver (1/4 the duration of a crotchet) for internal lilypond timing" Cheers, - Graham ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Repeat question - cross staff slur
I posted this question some time ago but haven't had any responses as yet - maybe it didn't get through. I want a cross-staff slur within a PianoStaff context. I've tried putting all the notes into one voice and then putting the \change Staff command within the voice context. The start of the slur is not anywhere near the first note, though, and I can't decipher the documentation to work out how to manually move this point. Could somebody help? Many thanks, Vivian, Netherlands. My new website - www.vivbt.tk ___ NEW Yahoo! Cars - sell your car and browse thousands of new and used cars online! http://uk.cars.yahoo.com/ ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Cross-staff slur with irregular shape
I'm notating "Quatre Poèmes" by Guy Ropartz http://conquest.imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/b/b3/IMSLP24553-PMLP55389-Ropartz_-_4_Po__mes__voice_and_piano_.pdf and I would like cross-staff slurs shaped like the ones on the third system of the first page of the edition linked to above. (The slur begins with one shape in the bottom staff and switches to another shape as the notes move to the upper staff.) I apologize if this is in the manual, but I am unable to track it down. -- Michael Rivers -- View this message in context: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/Cross-staff-slur-with-irregular-shape-tp135374.html Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Cross-staff slur spoils collision handling
In my previous post (http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2017-01/msg00036.html) I showed a complicated situation with a cross-staff voicing. When I now add a cross-staff slur things get worse. The red slur starts from the (upper) dis in the lower staff and ends at a note in the upper staff. I can live with the issue that LilyPond starts this slur above the upper staff, as I wouldn't expect software to be able to properly find a way for this slur. But as soon as this slur is present the vertical spacing is spoiled, and several elements overlap: The blue accent is encoded with the upper dis in the lower staff (same as the start of the slur), while the \f is in its own Dynamics context. *With* the slur the whole lower staff is shifted somewhat upwards, letting the accent and the dynamics collide. I have the impression is actually the other way round: the collision handling is out of order, thus allowing the systems to be moved closer together. The colliding elements are placed identically when I force the slur down (second image with the magenta slur). So: a) Is it a (known) bug that adding a cross-staff slur negatively affects collision handling? b) What element should I override to fix that collision with the least hacky, semantically most "valid" trick? Any ideas? Thanks Urs -- u...@openlilylib.org https://openlilylib.org http://lilypondblog.org ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Repeat question - cross staff slur
In the Regression Tests document, you can find an example called slur-cross-staff.ly which illustrates how well/bad LilyPond handles this for the moment. The desirable layout in these situations is probably a slur that is printed below the upper stave and above the lower stave, looking something like _/ / or \___ \ However, this is not yet supported in LilyPond as far as I know. You may want to take a look at the example in the Tips and Tricks document called slur-manual.ly though. /Mats Vivian Barty-Taylor wrote: I posted this question some time ago but haven't had any responses as yet - maybe it didn't get through. I want a cross-staff slur within a PianoStaff context. I've tried putting all the notes into one voice and then putting the \change Staff command within the voice context. The start of the slur is not anywhere near the first note, though, and I can't decipher the documentation to work out how to manually move this point. Could somebody help? Many thanks, Vivian, Netherlands. My new website - www.vivbt.tk ___ NEW Yahoo! Cars - sell your car and browse thousands of new and used cars online! http://uk.cars.yahoo.com/ ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user -- = Mats Bengtsson Signal Processing Signals, Sensors and Systems Royal Institute of Technology SE-100 44 STOCKHOLM Sweden Phone: (+46) 8 790 8463 Fax: (+46) 8 790 7260 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] WWW: http://www.s3.kth.se/~mabe = ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Tempo marking doesn't avoid cross-staff slur
I found a weird behavior -- I don't know if it's worthy of an issue or not,
but here it is:
The tempo marking will not avoid a slur that goes from staff to staff.
Here is a snippet that shows the problem, and I've attached an image of it:
\version "2.25.12"
one = \relative {
\tempo "Allegro maestoso"
c'''2( e |
\change Staff = "lower" c,1) |
}
two = \relative {
s1 |
s1 |
}
<<
\new Staff = "upper" \one
\new Staff = "lower" \two
>>
--
Knute Snortum
Re: Cross-staff slur with irregular shape
Hi Michael,
On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 4:48 PM, Michael Rivers
wrote:
> I'm notating "Quatre Poèmes" by Guy Ropartz
>
> http://conquest.imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/b/b3/IMSLP24553-PMLP55389-Ropartz_-_4_Po__mes__voice_and_piano_.pdf
>
> and I would like cross-staff slurs shaped like the ones on the third system
> of the first page of the edition linked to above. (The slur begins with one
> shape in the bottom staff and switches to another shape as the notes move to
> the upper staff.) I apologize if this is in the manual, but I am unable to
> track it down.
>
There's no automatic way to do this. Probably the easiest way to
achieve what you want to do is by using the \shape command, which is
new in 2.16.0. Here's part of your example:
\version "2.17.5"
\new PianoStaff <<
\new Staff = "1" {
\key cis \minor
s1
}
\new Staff {
\relative c {
\clef bass
\key cis \minor
% if using versions older than 2.17.4, use
% \shape Slur #'((0 . -6.5) (0 . -6) (1 . -10) (0 . -6))
\shape #'((0 . -6.5) (0 . -6) (1 . -10) (0 . -6)) Slur
cis8[( gis']
\change Staff = "1"
gis'8 e)
s2
}
}
>>
In recent development versions, there's been a change in the syntax of
the command. I show you the older version as a comment in the example
above.
You can find documentation for the command here:
http://www.lilypond.org/doc/v2.17/Documentation/notation/modifying-shapes
In the newer development versions, you can also use the command as a tweak.
HTH,
David
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Re: Cross-staff slur with irregular shape
Thank you David. I especially appreciate the example code. -- View this message in context: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/Cross-staff-slur-with-irregular-shape-tp135374p135383.html Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Tempo marking doesn't avoid cross-staff slur
> I found a weird behavior -- I don't know if it's worthy of an issue > or not, but here it is: > > The tempo marking will not avoid a slur that goes from staff to > staff. Here is a snippet that shows the problem, and I've attached > an image of it: [...] This issue belongs into the group of the many cross-staff problems. AFAICS, we don't have this particular case covered, so please file an issue in the LilyPond tracker. Werner
Re: Tempo marking doesn't avoid cross-staff slur
On Thu, Jan 11, 2024 at 4:40 AM Werner LEMBERG wrote: > > > I found a weird behavior -- I don't know if it's worthy of an issue > > or not, but here it is: > > > > The tempo marking will not avoid a slur that goes from staff to > > staff. Here is a snippet that shows the problem, and I've attached > > an image of it: [...] > > This issue belongs into the group of the many cross-staff problems. > AFAICS, we don't have this particular case covered, so please file an > issue in the LilyPond tracker. > For reference, it's : https://gitlab.com/lilypond/lilypond/-/issues/6688 -- Knute Snortum
Re: Tempo marking doesn't avoid cross-staff slur
>> This issue belongs into the group of the many cross-staff problems. >> AFAICS, we don't have this particular case covered, so please file >> an issue in the LilyPond tracker. > > For reference, it's : https://gitlab.com/lilypond/lilypond/-/issues/6688 Thanks! Werner
How write cross-staff slur (in combination with lyrics)
Hi all,
I'm a complete newbie here, so please bare with me ;-)
I already spent a couple of hours, reading all manuals and mailing lists,
trying to engrave something as simple as this:
Notice: the "full-measure rests" are not shown in the screenshot (beginner
piano book), but I want to engrave them anyway. Result: please check lilypond
attachment.
2 problems:
1.cross-staff slur:
a. using the list archive, apparently a possible solution is changing staffs.
I'm changing staffs from "right/upper" to "left/under" after note "c4", and
then I write final note "b2." By doing that, apparently
there is also an empty 4th measure added automatically to the "right" staff. I
did not expect that, because I wanted to put a rest "R2."in that measure, by
changing back from "left" to "right" after I wrote final note "b2.",
but clearly that does not give me the desired result.
b. It _does_ give a cross-staff slur, but it is not as "nice" as the one in the
screenshot. That one starts somewhere at the half of the stem of "f4" and ends
above lyric "round" that is centered above final note "b2.". How can that
be accomplished? But first the lyrics question...
2. lyrics
a. I have trouble finding a solution for the lyrics: I want a dash between e.g.
"Rid" and "ing" (one syllable per note) as in the screenshot, but the slur
between "e4" and "g2" prevents me from getting the desired result. If I remove
those round
brackets (slur), I'm still not getting "Rid - ing" but "Riding" in one word
without a dash. How can that be accomplished?
Thanks in advance!
Jurgen L.
\version "2.18.2"
right = << \relative c' {
\tempo "Gracefully"
\clef "treble"
\key c \major
\numericTimeSignature \time 3/4
e4( g2) |%m1/right
g4( e2) |%m2/right
f4( d c |%m3/right
\change Staff = left
b2.) |%m4/left
%\change Staff = right
%R2. |%m4/right
}
\addlyrics {
Rid -- ing | riding, | 'round and a round
}
>>
left = \relative c' {
\clef "bass"
\key c \major
\numericTimeSignature \time 3/4
R2. |%m1/left
R2. |%m2/left
R2. |%m3/left
%b2. |%m4/left -> changed to left from right
}
pianoPart = \new PianoStaff \with {
instrumentName = "Pno."
} <<
\new Staff = "right" \right
\new Staff = "left" \left
>>
\score {
<<
\pianoPart
% ...
>>
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Re: How write cross-staff slur (in combination with lyrics)
jurgen.lams...@telenet.be writes:
> Hi all,
>
> I'm a complete newbie here, so please bare with me ;-)
>
> I already spent a couple of hours, reading all manuals and mailing
> lists, trying to engrave something as simple as this:
>
> *
>
> Notice: the "full-measure rests" are not shown in the screenshot
> (beginner piano book), but I want to engrave them anyway. Result:
> please check lilypond attachment.
Good. Attaching your example document makes it easy to just add the
required changes.
> 2 problems:
>
> 1.cross-staff slur:
> a. using the list archive, apparently a possible solution is changing staffs.
> I'm
> changing staffs from "right/upper" to "left/under" after note "c4", and then
> I write
> final note "b2." By doing that, apparently
> there is also an empty 4th measure added automatically to the "right"
> staff.
Changing staves does not rewind time so you have to apply the rest in
parallel.
> b. It _does_ give a cross-staff slur, but it is not as "nice" as the
> one in the screenshot. That one starts somewhere at the half of the
> stem of "f4" and ends above lyric "round" that is centered above final
> note "b2.". How can that be accomplished?
You can relax some constraints. The below already looks more like what
you are asking for. I'd probably not bother more than that.
> But first the lyrics question...
>
> 2. lyrics
> a. I have trouble finding a solution for the lyrics: I want a dash
> between e.g. "Rid" and "ing" (one syllable per note) as in the
> screenshot, but the slur between "e4" and "g2" prevents me from
> getting the desired result. If I remove those round brackets (slur),
> I'm still not getting "Rid - ing" but "Riding" in one word without a
> dash. How can that be accomplished?
I am using a phrasing slur here since that's apparently what you are
doing (namely, indicating a legato execution but not continuing
text/notes).
\version "2.18.2"
right = << \relative c' {
\tempo "Gracefully"
\clef "treble"
\key c \major
\numericTimeSignature \time 3/4
e4\( g2\) |%m1/right
g4\( e2\) |%m2/right
f4-\tweak height-limit 5 \( d c |%m3/right
<< \new Voice { R2. }
\change Staff = left
b2.\)
>> |%m4/left+right
}
\addlyrics {
Rid -- ing | rid -- ing, | 'round and a -- round
}
>>
left = \relative c' {
\clef "bass"
\key c \major
\numericTimeSignature \time 3/4
R2. |%m1/left
R2. |%m2/left
R2. |%m3/left
\skip 2. |%m4/left -> changed to left from right
}
pianoPart = \new PianoStaff \with {
instrumentName = "Pno."
} <<
\new Staff = "right" \right
\new Staff = "left" \left
>>
\score {
<<
\pianoPart
% ...
>>
}
--
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Re: How write cross-staff slur (in combination with lyrics)
Hi Jurgen, welcome to this list and LilyPond! I will answer some of your questions but you'll surely get other responses as well. Am 05.10.2015 um 12:46 schrieb jurgen.lams...@telenet.be: > Hi all, > > I'm a complete newbie here, so please bare with me ;-) > > I already spent a couple of hours, reading all manuals and mailing > lists, trying to engrave something as simple as this: > > > Notice: the "full-measure rests" are not shown in the screenshot > (beginner piano book), but I want to engrave them anyway. Result: > please check lilypond attachment. > > 2 problems: > > 1.cross-staff slur: > a. using the list archive, apparently a possible solution is changing > staffs. Yes, this is the most straightforward solution. And if the image you posted is more or less all you need it is the way to go. > I'm changing staffs from "right/upper" to "left/under" after note > "c4", and then I write final note "b2." By doing that, apparently > there is also an empty 4th measure added automatically to the "right" > staff. I did not expect that, because I wanted to put a rest "R2."in > that measure, by changing back from "left" to "right" after I wrote > final note "b2.", > but clearly that does not give me the desired result. The solution is quite simple in your case: you can simply have the "left hand" rests change staff too. So adding \change Staff = right R2. after the third measure in the "left" variable will give you the desired result. There are solutions that may be "semantically" more correct, but for your example this is what I would do. > > b. It _does_ give a cross-staff slur, but it is not as "nice" as the > one in the screenshot. That one starts somewhere at the half of the > stem of "f4" and ends above lyric "round" that is centered above final > note "b2.". How can that > be accomplished? For changing the shape of a slur (or tie) you can use the function \shape (as explained here: http://www.lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/notation/modifying-shapes.html) and enter e.g. \shape #'((0.25 . -1.5)(3 . 1)(0 . 0)(0 . -3)) Slur immediately *before* the note the slur start is attached to. This is a more general solution than that suggested by David but also a more (unnecessarily?) complex one. > But first the lyrics question... > > 2. lyrics > a. I have trouble finding a solution for the lyrics: I want a dash > between e.g. "Rid" and "ing" (one syllable per note) as in the > screenshot, but the slur between "e4" and "g2" prevents me from > getting the desired result. If I remove those round > brackets (slur), I'm still not getting "Rid - ing" but "Riding" in one > word without a dash. How can that be accomplished? First thing: you have to write "Rid -- ing" both times (with a double hyphen which is surrounded by spaces). This is the way to tell LilyPond that you want syllables. The thing with slurs and phrasing slurs (David's suggestion) may warrant an additional solution. Your original example is actually non-standard notation: The slurs usually indicate a melisma and therefore the syllables are distributed differently from what you expect. Therefore you have to "trick" LilyPond into doing what you want it to do, namely printing non-standard notation. The trick in this case is that a phrasing slur doesn't take part in the melisma/non-melisma considerations. But actually I suggest you consider actually changing the notation: Remove the slurs in the first two measures completely and use a phrasing slur over m. 3-4.. HTH Urs > > Thanks in advance! > Jurgen L. > > > ___ > lilypond-user mailing list > lilypond-user@gnu.org > https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: How write cross-staff slur (in combination with lyrics)
On 05.10.2015 13:33, Urs Liska wrote: Remove the slurs in the first two measures completely Hear, hear! The musicologist deviates from the original notation :-) You definitely need to make an editorial remark… Cheek aside, I think they are phrasing slurs and make sense as such. Yours, Simon ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: How write cross-staff slur (in combination with lyrics)
- Original Message - From: "Simon Albrecht" To: "Urs Liska" ; Sent: Monday, October 05, 2015 8:07 PM Subject: Re: How write cross-staff slur (in combination with lyrics) On 05.10.2015 13:33, Urs Liska wrote: > Remove the slurs in the first two measures completely Hear, hear! The musicologist deviates from the original notation :-) You definitely need to make an editorial remark… Cheek aside, I think they are phrasing slurs and make sense as such. Yours, Simon I would definitely argue against removing the slurs from the vocal part. Slurs serve two purposes: to show melisma and to show phrasing. In terms of the lilypond input, they're coded differently; in terms of the image in the score, they look the same. Have a look at some of Vaughan Williams' "Songs of Travel" for use of this sort of phrasing: "The Roadside Fire" is a good example. -- Phil Holmes ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: How write cross-staff slur (in combination with lyrics)
Hello Jurgen,
On 05.10.2015 12:46, jurgen.lams...@telenet.be wrote:
Hi all,
I'm a complete newbie here, so please bear with me ;-)
I already spent a couple of hours, reading all manuals and mailing lists,
Reading the manuals is always helpful, but at the beginning it’s a huge
heap – and after four years there are still parts of the NR I discover
for the first time… but you’ll get the hang :-)
trying to engrave something as simple as this:
Notice: the "full-measure rests" are not shown in the screenshot
(beginner piano book), but I want to engrave them anyway.
I’d suggest working with spacer rests, for the following reason: There
is only one voice here, so there is no need for visible rests.
Result: please check lilypond attachment.
2 problems:
1.cross-staff slur:
a. using the list archive, apparently a possible solution is changing
staffs.
And a very natural solution, given that it’s the same melody in the same
voice, which only – changes staff :-) Sometimes LilyPond does have quite
intuitive syntax.
I attach a version, which shows how I’d do it. There is a certain amount
of indivuality in how everybody uses to code music in LilyPond. But the
methods I used here tend to be very robust and versatile, so I may
recommend studying that.
A few comments:
– the `\context SomeContext = "name-of-the-context" \content` command is
used to reference an already existing context. In this example, the
\lyricsto can only be used after the associated Voice has been created,
so I create an empty Lyrics context first and insert the content later.
– Nitpick: the typographical apostrophe ’ – hard to achieve, alas, on
most keyboard layouts. And apparently most people don’t seem to mind,
but I find it much nicer.
– LyricHyphen, \shape and phrasing slur have already been explained. I
really think they are phrasing slurs, especially in the context of such
an elementary school, where they just indicate the analysis of the form.
– Separating "global" and "aux" variables will come in handy in more
complicated situations, here it’s not yet necessary.
– \override VerticalAxisGroup.staff-affinity tells the Lyrics context,
to which staff it belongs – this changes spacing. Default is #UP.
Happy Ponding!
Yours, Simon
\version "2.18.2"
global = {
\key c \major
\time 3/4
}
aux = {
\tempo "Gracefully"
s2.*4
\bar "||"
}
melody = \relative {
e'4\( g2\) | %m1
g4\( e2\) | %m2/right
f4-\shape #'((-.3 . -6) (0 . -9) (-1.2 . -4.3) (-.3 . -4)) \( d c | %m3/right
\change Staff = "left"
b2.\) |%m4/left
%\change Staff = right
%R2. |%m4/right
}
text = \lyricmode {
Rid -- ing, | rid -- ing, | âround and a -- round
}
\score {
\new PianoStaff \with {
instrumentName = "Pno."
} <<
\new Lyrics = "text" \with { \override VerticalAxisGroup.staff-affinity = #DOWN }
\new Staff = "right" << \global \aux >>
\new Staff = "left" << \global \clef bass \aux >>
\context Staff = "right" \new Voice = "melody" \melody
\context Lyrics = "text" \lyricsto "melody" \text
>>
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Re: How write cross-staff slur (in combination with lyrics)
Am 05.10.2015 um 21:07 schrieb Simon Albrecht:
> On 05.10.2015 13:33, Urs Liska wrote:
>> Remove the slurs in the first two measures completely
>
> Hear, hear! The musicologist deviates from the original notation :-)
> You definitely need to make an editorial
Depends on the type of publication of course. Anyway, this obsession to
justify and comment on *everything* is a comparably new trend.
Traditionally the musicologist would silently ("stillschweigend")
correct "obvious errors" ;-)
> Cheek aside, I think they are phrasing slurs and make sense as such.
I'd also say that this depends too, this time on the style of the music.
In most cases I'd consider them dubious. But I deliberately didn't tell
the OP to remove the slurs but to *consider* doing so.
Urs
>
> Yours, Simon
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Re: How write cross-staff slur (in combination with lyrics)
On 05.10.2015 22:01, Urs Liska wrote:
Am 05.10.2015 um 21:07 schrieb Simon Albrecht:
On 05.10.2015 13:33, Urs Liska wrote:
Remove the slurs in the first two measures completely
Hear, hear! The musicologist deviates from the original notation :-)
You definitely need to make an editorial
Depends on the type of publication of course. Anyway, this obsession to
justify and comment on *everything* is a comparably new trend.
Traditionally the musicologist would silently ("stillschweigend")
correct "obvious errors" ;-)
Cheek aside, I think they are phrasing slurs and make sense as such.
I'd also say that this depends too, this time on the style of the music.
In most cases I'd consider them dubious. But I deliberately didn't tell
the OP to remove the slurs but to *consider* doing so.
I hope you didn’t take my remark too seriously :-)
Good night, Simon
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Re: How write cross-staff slur (in combination with lyrics)
Am 05.10.2015 um 22:20 schrieb Simon Albrecht:
> On 05.10.2015 22:01, Urs Liska wrote:
>>
>> Am 05.10.2015 um 21:07 schrieb Simon Albrecht:
>>> On 05.10.2015 13:33, Urs Liska wrote:
Remove the slurs in the first two measures completely
>>> Hear, hear! The musicologist deviates from the original notation :-)
>>> You definitely need to make an editorial
>> Depends on the type of publication of course. Anyway, this obsession to
>> justify and comment on *everything* is a comparably new trend.
>> Traditionally the musicologist would silently ("stillschweigend")
>> correct "obvious errors" ;-)
>>
>>> Cheek aside, I think they are phrasing slurs and make sense as such.
>> I'd also say that this depends too, this time on the style of the music.
>> In most cases I'd consider them dubious. But I deliberately didn't tell
>> the OP to remove the slurs but to *consider* doing so.
>
> I hope you didn’t take my remark too seriously :-)
>
Not at all. But I was afraid that my answer might sound too serious ...
Best
Urs
> Good night, Simon
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Re: How write cross-staff slur (in combination with lyrics)
One small amendment: The spacing is less grotesque if you insert
%%%
selfAl = #(define-music-function (parser location num) (number?)
#{ \once \override LyricText . self-alignment-X = $num #})
text = \lyricmode {
Rid -- ing, | rid -- ing, | \selfAl #.5 ’round \selfAl #-.5 and a --
round
}
%%%
instead of the lyrics.
Yours, Simon
On 05.10.2015 21:41, Simon Albrecht wrote:
Hello Jurgen,
On 05.10.2015 12:46, jurgen.lams...@telenet.be wrote:
Hi all,
I'm a complete newbie here, so please bear with me ;-)
I already spent a couple of hours, reading all manuals and mailing
lists,
Reading the manuals is always helpful, but at the beginning it’s a
huge heap – and after four years there are still parts of the NR I
discover for the first time… but you’ll get the hang :-)
trying to engrave something as simple as this:
Notice: the "full-measure rests" are not shown in the screenshot
(beginner piano book), but I want to engrave them anyway.
I’d suggest working with spacer rests, for the following reason: There
is only one voice here, so there is no need for visible rests.
Result: please check lilypond attachment.
2 problems:
1.cross-staff slur:
a. using the list archive, apparently a possible solution is changing
staffs.
And a very natural solution, given that it’s the same melody in the
same voice, which only – changes staff :-) Sometimes LilyPond does
have quite intuitive syntax.
I attach a version, which shows how I’d do it. There is a certain
amount of indivuality in how everybody uses to code music in LilyPond.
But the methods I used here tend to be very robust and versatile, so I
may recommend studying that.
A few comments:
– the `\context SomeContext = "name-of-the-context" \content` command
is used to reference an already existing context. In this example, the
\lyricsto can only be used after the associated Voice has been
created, so I create an empty Lyrics context first and insert the
content later.
– Nitpick: the typographical apostrophe ’ – hard to achieve, alas, on
most keyboard layouts. And apparently most people don’t seem to mind,
but I find it much nicer.
– LyricHyphen, \shape and phrasing slur have already been explained. I
really think they are phrasing slurs, especially in the context of
such an elementary school, where they just indicate the analysis of
the form.
– Separating "global" and "aux" variables will come in handy in more
complicated situations, here it’s not yet necessary.
– \override VerticalAxisGroup.staff-affinity tells the Lyrics context,
to which staff it belongs – this changes spacing. Default is #UP.
Happy Ponding!
Yours, Simon
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Re: How write cross-staff slur (in combination with lyrics)
Quoting Simon Albrecht (simon.albre...@mail.de):
> One small amendment: The spacing is less grotesque if you insert
> %%%
> selfAl = #(define-music-function (parser location num) (number?)
> #{ \once \override LyricText . self-alignment-X = $num #})
>
> text = \lyricmode {
> Rid -- ing, | rid -- ing, | \selfAl #.5 ’round \selfAl #-.5 and a
> -- round
> }
> %%%
> instead of the lyrics.
Thanks for another snippet to file away for later use.
However, I just wanted to observe two things about the OP's original:
the words are much smaller, and the first three bars look as though
they are using proportional spacing.
One of the things that I've noticed about LP is that by default the
lyrics are scaled up in size relative to the music, compared with many
publishers' scores, which can lead to a more irregular note spacing.
This isn't a criticism: it's easily "correctable" but I much prefer it
anyway because of my eyesight.
> On 05.10.2015 12:46, jurgen.lams...@telenet.be wrote:
> > Notice: the "full-measure rests" are not shown in the screenshot
> > (beginner piano book), but I want to engrave them anyway.
Might the lack of rests indicate that it is music for one voice/hand?
> – Nitpick: the typographical apostrophe ’ – hard to achieve, alas,
> on most keyboard layouts. And apparently most people don’t seem to
> mind, but I find it much nicer.
Another reason to use curly quotes is that you can write lyrics like
“All hail,” instead of "\"All" "hail,\"" which improves the appearance
of the source as well as the output.
Mind you, I'm not sure why a beginner's piano book has lyrics at all,
particularly placing them between the staves.
Cheers,
David.
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Re: How write cross-staff slur (in combination with lyrics)
My daughter is learning the piano right now and the very simple songs she
is learning all are very "cleaned up", meaning that there are no key
signatures, no rests, etc. There are only clefs, notes, and lyrics (besides
the two piano staves).
It all seems to be working out. As she progresses, more notation elements
are introduced.
Just wanted to add another reason why the "standard" way of writing the
music may not be employed in the OP's original image.
Best,
Abraham
On Monday, October 5, 2015, David Wright [via Lilypond] <
ml-node+s1069038n182080...@n5.nabble.com> wrote:
> Quoting Simon Albrecht ([hidden email]
> <http:///user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=182080&i=0>):
>
> > One small amendment: The spacing is less grotesque if you insert
> > %%%
> > selfAl = #(define-music-function (parser location num) (number?)
> > #{ \once \override LyricText . self-alignment-X = $num #})
> >
> > text = \lyricmode {
> > Rid -- ing, | rid -- ing, | \selfAl #.5 ’round \selfAl #-.5 and a
> > -- round
> > }
> > %%%
> > instead of the lyrics.
>
> Thanks for another snippet to file away for later use.
>
> However, I just wanted to observe two things about the OP's original:
> the words are much smaller, and the first three bars look as though
> they are using proportional spacing.
>
> One of the things that I've noticed about LP is that by default the
> lyrics are scaled up in size relative to the music, compared with many
> publishers' scores, which can lead to a more irregular note spacing.
> This isn't a criticism: it's easily "correctable" but I much prefer it
> anyway because of my eyesight.
>
> > On 05.10.2015 12:46, [hidden email]
> <http:///user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=182080&i=1> wrote:
> > > Notice: the "full-measure rests" are not shown in the screenshot
> > > (beginner piano book), but I want to engrave them anyway.
>
> Might the lack of rests indicate that it is music for one voice/hand?
>
> > – Nitpick: the typographical apostrophe ’ – hard to achieve, alas,
> > on most keyboard layouts. And apparently most people don’t seem to
> > mind, but I find it much nicer.
>
> Another reason to use curly quotes is that you can write lyrics like
> “All hail,” instead of "\"All" "hail,\"" which improves the appearance
> of the source as well as the output.
>
> Mind you, I'm not sure why a beginner's piano book has lyrics at all,
> particularly placing them between the staves.
>
> Cheers,
> David.
>
> _______
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Re: How write cross-staff slur (in combination with lyrics)
On 06.10.2015 06:40, David Wright wrote: However, I just wanted to observe two things about the OP's original: the words are much smaller, and the first three bars look as though they are using proportional spacing. No, they don’t. Proportional spacing is a very specific means for complicated situations in mostly ‘modern’ music, and what the example shows is just unnecessary loose spacing, less proficient by far than LilyPond’s solution. One of the things that I've noticed about LP is that by default the lyrics are scaled up in size relative to the music, compared with many publishers' scores, which can lead to a more irregular note spacing. This isn't a criticism: it's easily "correctable" but I much prefer it anyway because of my eyesight. And legibility is the exact reason why LilyPond’s lyrics are larger than commonly used nowadays. Mind you, I'm not sure why a beginner's piano book has lyrics at all, particularly placing them between the staves. In order to make the connection to a tune the child knows, or to teach the actual song to sing it as well; also, thinking text is a good means to achieve more musical playing. Yours, Simon ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: How write cross-staff slur (in combination with lyrics)
Thanks a lot everyone for those smart responses. I've been reading and re-reading the thread multiple times ;-) Must say, reading let stand writing code like this for such an easy part is not that easy for a beginner I'm afraid... Best regards! Jurgen L. - Original Message - From: "Simon Albrecht" To: "David Wright" Cc: "jurgen lamsens" , lilypond-user@gnu.org Sent: Tuesday, October 6, 2015 9:06:29 PM Subject: Re: How write cross-staff slur (in combination with lyrics) On 06.10.2015 06:40, David Wright wrote: > However, I just wanted to observe two things about the OP's original: > the words are much smaller, and the first three bars look as though > they are using proportional spacing. No, they don’t. Proportional spacing is a very specific means for complicated situations in mostly ‘modern’ music, and what the example shows is just unnecessary loose spacing, less proficient by far than LilyPond’s solution. > One of the things that I've noticed about LP is that by default the > lyrics are scaled up in size relative to the music, compared with many > publishers' scores, which can lead to a more irregular note spacing. > This isn't a criticism: it's easily "correctable" but I much prefer it > anyway because of my eyesight. And legibility is the exact reason why LilyPond’s lyrics are larger than commonly used nowadays. > Mind you, I'm not sure why a beginner's piano book has lyrics at all, > particularly placing them between the staves. In order to make the connection to a tune the child knows, or to teach the actual song to sing it as well; also, thinking text is a good means to achieve more musical playing. Yours, Simon ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: How write cross-staff slur (in combination with lyrics)
On 06.10.2015 22:22, jurgen.lams...@telenet.be wrote: Thanks a lot everyone for those smart responses. I've been reading and re-reading the thread multiple times ;-) Must say, reading let stand writing code like this for such an easy part is not that easy for a beginner I'm afraid... If you have any questions about the constructs I used, feel free to ask! I’m aware that there were probably many new things in there. Yours, Simon ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: How write cross-staff slur (in combination with lyrics)
Am 06.10.2015 um 21:06 schrieb Simon Albrecht: >> One of the things that I've noticed about LP is that by default the >> lyrics are scaled up in size relative to the music, compared with >> many publishers' scores, which can lead to a more irregular note >> spacing. This isn't a criticism: it's easily "correctable" but I much >> prefer it anyway because of my eyesight. > > And legibility is the exact reason why LilyPond’s lyrics are larger > than commonly used nowadays. This issue is partially due to the relative width of LilyPond's default text font. Using different fonts with condensed variants is much more efficient (while keeping legibility) than simply decreasing LyricText.font-size. Urs ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: How write cross-staff slur (in combination with lyrics)
Am 6. Oktober 2015 22:22:48 MESZ, schrieb jurgen.lams...@telenet.be: >Thanks a lot everyone for those smart responses. I've been reading and >re-reading the thread multiple times ;-) > >Must say, reading let stand writing code like this for such an easy >part is not that easy for a beginner I'm afraid... Yes, this is understandable. But after all your example is not that easy. There are several things that are non-standard notation, and LilyPond "thinks" in semantics and structure. On the long run this is a terrific strength , but for a start it may be daunting that you can't simply pull things around like in a graphics program. Best Urs > >Best regards! >Jurgen L. > > >- Original Message - >From: "Simon Albrecht" >To: "David Wright" >Cc: "jurgen lamsens" , lilypond-user@gnu.org >Sent: Tuesday, October 6, 2015 9:06:29 PM >Subject: Re: How write cross-staff slur (in combination with lyrics) > >On 06.10.2015 06:40, David Wright wrote: >> However, I just wanted to observe two things about the OP's original: > >> the words are much smaller, and the first three bars look as though >> they are using proportional spacing. > >No, they don’t. Proportional spacing is a very specific means for >complicated situations in mostly ‘modern’ music, and what the example >shows is just unnecessary loose spacing, less proficient by far than >LilyPond’s solution. > >> One of the things that I've noticed about LP is that by default the >> lyrics are scaled up in size relative to the music, compared with >many >> publishers' scores, which can lead to a more irregular note spacing. >> This isn't a criticism: it's easily "correctable" but I much prefer >it >> anyway because of my eyesight. > >And legibility is the exact reason why LilyPond’s lyrics are larger >than >commonly used nowadays. > >> Mind you, I'm not sure why a beginner's piano book has lyrics at all, > >> particularly placing them between the staves. > >In order to make the connection to a tune the child knows, or to teach >the actual song to sing it as well; also, thinking text is a good means > >to achieve more musical playing. > >Yours, Simon > >___ >lilypond-user mailing list >lilypond-user@gnu.org >https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user -- Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android-Mobiltelefon mit K-9 Mail gesendet. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: How write cross-staff slur (in combination with lyrics)
Quoting Simon Albrecht (simon.albre...@mail.de): > On 06.10.2015 06:40, David Wright wrote: > >However, I just wanted to observe two things about the OP's > >original: the words are much smaller, and the first three bars > >look as though they are using proportional spacing. > > No, they don’t. Proportional spacing is a very specific means for > complicated situations in mostly ‘modern’ music, and what the > example shows is just unnecessary loose spacing, less proficient by > far than LilyPond’s solution. Forgive me if I gave the impression that I was criticising anybody or anything. It wasn't a technical comment; I was just making a light-hearted observation regarding the roughly crochet-sized gaps after the minims in the original photograph, which might be mimicked by dropping in a line like \set Score.proportionalNotationDuration = #(ly:make-moment 1 8) No more than that. Cheers, David. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: How write cross-staff slur (in combination with lyrics)
This isn't meant to be sung by a singer. This is from a beginner's piano method (I'm a piano teacher). The words are to give a sense of the stress in the meter, to give the player an idea of the mood of the piece, and possibly for the player to sing along. The slurs, though, are entirely for the pianist and have nothing to do with the lyrics. I don't really have an opinion if it is a good idea to introduce young musicians to non-standard notation. Personally, my students and I pretty much ignore the texts (which are usually of poor quality anyway) and play as it were a normal piano score. -- View this message in context: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/How-write-cross-staff-slur-in-combination-with-lyrics-tp182033p182126.html Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
