Re: Just chords and lyrics.
Carl D. Sorensen wrote: Given this situation, it seems to me that the best thing to do is to just put both examples (DevNull and hidden voice) in the LSR, and have them show up in selected snippets. None of the solutions is so good that I think they should be included in the main portion of the manual. Carl Agreed. I have three snippets that I'll put into the LSR and hopefully that'll be the end of that. After all, now that I think about it, if we add a section about this to the main part of the manual, in effect we're saying that it's a good idea to (mis)use Lilypond this way. ;-) Thanks Carl, Jon -- Jonathan Kulp http://www.jonathankulp.com ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Just chords and lyrics.
If I may... BTW I'm not sure whether this topic belongs in fretted strings or in chords or what. Any thoughts? From an editorial point of view, I think this should find a home in a sub-section titled "Song Sheets" or something similar under "Vocal Music." I don't believe it belongs under "Fretted Instruments." Just my two cents. Dave Jonathan Kulp wrote: Carl D. Sorensen wrote: On 11/28/08 4:47 AM, "Mats Bengtsson" wrote: There's major problem with your proposed \hideAll (or whatever you want to call it), namely that the hidden voice will influence the placement of the other voices, since LilyPond will try to avoid collisions with the hidden note heads. Therefore, this solution is not really working if you want to use it to align lyrics to a hidden Voice in a Staff that also contains other voices. When I used it to align lyrics to partcombined music, I simply transposed the voice I used with lyricsto up an octave, and everything seemed to work fine. Carl Carl, I sort of lost track of this but now that the semester is over I can update the docs about this topic and put my examples of "just chords & lyrics" either right in the docs or send to Valentin for the snippet list. When you get a chance would you send me the latest .itely file? BTW I'm not sure whether this topic belongs in fretted strings or in chords or what. Any thoughts? The fretted-strings.itely file used to have the @TODO about it, but it could just as easily go in a different place. Jon ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Just chords and lyrics.
Given this situation, it seems to me that the best thing to do is to just put both examples (DevNull and hidden voice) in the LSR, and have them show up in selected snippets. None of the solutions is so good that I think they should be included in the main portion of the manual. Carl On 12/11/08 3:54 PM, "Mats Bengtsson" wrote: > Jonathan, if you read the follow-up email I sent to Carl's answer, you > will realize that this solution still has problems, that unfortunately > can be at least as severe as those you get from the DevNull solution. > >/Mats > > Quoting Jonathan Kulp : > >> Carl D. Sorensen wrote: >>> >>> >>> On 11/28/08 4:47 AM, "Mats Bengtsson" wrote: >>> There's major problem with your proposed \hideAll (or whatever you want to call it), namely that the hidden voice will influence the placement of the other voices, since LilyPond will try to avoid collisions with the hidden note heads. Therefore, this solution is not really working if you want to use it to align lyrics to a hidden Voice in a Staff that also contains other voices. >>> >>> When I used it to align lyrics to partcombined music, I simply transposed >>> the voice I used with lyricsto up an octave, and everything seemed to work >>> fine. >>> >>> Carl >>> >> >> Carl, >> >> I sort of lost track of this but now that the semester is over I can >> update the docs about this topic and put my examples of "just chords >> & lyrics" either right in the docs or send to Valentin for the >> snippet list. When you get a chance would you send me the latest >> .itely file? BTW I'm not sure whether this topic belongs in fretted >> strings or in chords or what. Any thoughts? The >> fretted-strings.itely file used to have the @TODO about it, but it >> could just as easily go in a different place. >> >> Jon >> >> -- >> Jonathan Kulp >> http://www.jonathankulp.com >> >> >> ___ >> lilypond-user mailing list >> lilypond-user@gnu.org >> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user >> > > > ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Just chords and lyrics.
Jonathan, if you read the follow-up email I sent to Carl's answer, you will realize that this solution still has problems, that unfortunately can be at least as severe as those you get from the DevNull solution. /Mats Quoting Jonathan Kulp : Carl D. Sorensen wrote: On 11/28/08 4:47 AM, "Mats Bengtsson" wrote: There's major problem with your proposed \hideAll (or whatever you want to call it), namely that the hidden voice will influence the placement of the other voices, since LilyPond will try to avoid collisions with the hidden note heads. Therefore, this solution is not really working if you want to use it to align lyrics to a hidden Voice in a Staff that also contains other voices. When I used it to align lyrics to partcombined music, I simply transposed the voice I used with lyricsto up an octave, and everything seemed to work fine. Carl Carl, I sort of lost track of this but now that the semester is over I can update the docs about this topic and put my examples of "just chords & lyrics" either right in the docs or send to Valentin for the snippet list. When you get a chance would you send me the latest .itely file? BTW I'm not sure whether this topic belongs in fretted strings or in chords or what. Any thoughts? The fretted-strings.itely file used to have the @TODO about it, but it could just as easily go in a different place. Jon -- Jonathan Kulp http://www.jonathankulp.com ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Just chords and lyrics.
Carl D. Sorensen wrote: On 11/28/08 4:47 AM, "Mats Bengtsson" wrote: There's major problem with your proposed \hideAll (or whatever you want to call it), namely that the hidden voice will influence the placement of the other voices, since LilyPond will try to avoid collisions with the hidden note heads. Therefore, this solution is not really working if you want to use it to align lyrics to a hidden Voice in a Staff that also contains other voices. When I used it to align lyrics to partcombined music, I simply transposed the voice I used with lyricsto up an octave, and everything seemed to work fine. Carl Carl, I sort of lost track of this but now that the semester is over I can update the docs about this topic and put my examples of "just chords & lyrics" either right in the docs or send to Valentin for the snippet list. When you get a chance would you send me the latest .itely file? BTW I'm not sure whether this topic belongs in fretted strings or in chords or what. Any thoughts? The fretted-strings.itely file used to have the @TODO about it, but it could just as easily go in a different place. Jon -- Jonathan Kulp http://www.jonathankulp.com ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Just chords and lyrics.
Carl D. Sorensen wrote: On 11/28/08 4:47 AM, "Mats Bengtsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: There's major problem with your proposed \hideAll (or whatever you want to call it), namely that the hidden voice will influence the placement of the other voices, since LilyPond will try to avoid collisions with the hidden note heads. Therefore, this solution is not really working if you want to use it to align lyrics to a hidden Voice in a Staff that also contains other voices. When I used it to align lyrics to partcombined music, I simply transposed the voice I used with lyricsto up an octave, and everything seemed to work fine. Yes, that's one possible trick, but as long as you only have set the objects as transparent, they will still influence spacing, for example the spacing to other objects that appear above the staff. Trying to instead to \override NoteHead #'stencil = ##f doesn't help either, since then the lyrics alignment won't work anymore. /Mats ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Just chords and lyrics.
Mats Bengtsson wrote: There's major problem with your proposed \hideAll (or whatever you want to call it), namely that the hidden voice will influence the placement of the other voices, since LilyPond will try to avoid collisions with the hidden note heads. Therefore, this solution is not really working if you want to use it to align lyrics to a hidden Voice in a Staff that also contains other voices. /Mats Trevor Daniels wrote: Graham Percival wrote Friday, November 28, 2008 10:42 AM On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 10:04:50AM -, Trevor Daniels wrote: ok, let's make a \hideNotation or \hideAll or something like that for printing lyrics + chords. \hideNotation is a bit too close to \hideNotes. \hideAll, \unHideAll looks good. The documentation can say it applies to the Voice, not the Staff. Trevor Given the problem Mats points out, my inclination is to keep the example using all the overrides as a snippet. People who want to use a \hideAllVoiceNotation sort of command can create one themselves using \hideNotes and my snippet as a starting point, and store their definition either in the file they're working on or in a definitions.ly file as described in the Learning Manual 5.1.5 "Style Sheets." The examples using "\new Devnull" can go in the main text of the docs since they have no overrides. Best, Jon -- Jonathan Kulp http://www.jonathankulp.com ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Just chords and lyrics.
On 11/28/08 4:47 AM, "Mats Bengtsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > There's major problem with your proposed \hideAll (or whatever you want > to call it), namely > that the hidden voice will influence the placement of the other voices, > since LilyPond will > try to avoid collisions with the hidden note heads. Therefore, this > solution is not really working > if you want to use it to align lyrics to a hidden Voice in a Staff that > also contains other voices. When I used it to align lyrics to partcombined music, I simply transposed the voice I used with lyricsto up an octave, and everything seemed to work fine. Carl ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Just chords and lyrics.
There's major problem with your proposed \hideAll (or whatever you want to call it), namely that the hidden voice will influence the placement of the other voices, since LilyPond will try to avoid collisions with the hidden note heads. Therefore, this solution is not really working if you want to use it to align lyrics to a hidden Voice in a Staff that also contains other voices. /Mats Trevor Daniels wrote: Graham Percival wrote Friday, November 28, 2008 10:42 AM On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 10:04:50AM -, Trevor Daniels wrote: ok, let's make a \hideNotation or \hideAll or something like that for printing lyrics + chords. \hideNotation is a bit too close to \hideNotes. \hideAll, \unHideAll looks good. The documentation can say it applies to the Voice, not the Staff. Trevor ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user -- = Mats Bengtsson Signal Processing School of Electrical Engineering Royal Institute of Technology (KTH) SE-100 44 STOCKHOLM Sweden Phone: (+46) 8 790 8463 Fax: (+46) 8 790 7260 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] WWW: http://www.s3.kth.se/~mabe = ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Just chords and lyrics.
Graham Percival wrote Friday, November 28, 2008 10:42 AM On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 10:04:50AM -, Trevor Daniels wrote: ok, let's make a \hideNotation or \hideAll or something like that for printing lyrics + chords. \hideNotation is a bit too close to \hideNotes. \hideAll, \unHideAll looks good. The documentation can say it applies to the Voice, not the Staff. Trevor ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Just chords and lyrics.
On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 10:04:50AM -, Trevor Daniels wrote: > > Graham Percival wrote Friday, November 28, 2008 7:49 AM > >> Let me put it this way: should \hideNotes *only* hide the noteheads >> and steams, or should \hideNotes hide everything? My first > > By using a second voice with \hideNotes it is possible to have > overlapping printed slurs (slurs can't be attached to spacer rests). > Not sure if this is a good-enough reason though. That's an *excellent* reason -- the original reason for \hideNotes was to fake slurs between voices (for Bach string parts). ok, let's make a \hideNotation or \hideAll or something like that for printing lyrics + chords. Cheers, - Graham PS err, on second reason, this isn't quite the same as "overlapping printed slurs"... but it reminded me of /my/ reason. :) ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Just chords and lyrics.
Graham Percival wrote Friday, November 28, 2008 7:49 AM
On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 08:15:39PM -0700, Carl D. Sorensen wrote:
On 11/27/08 8:06 PM, "Jonathan Kulp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Graham Percival wrote:
>> On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 08:22:51PM -0600, Jonathan Kulp wrote:
>>> makeTransparent = {
>>> \override NoteHead #'transparent = ##t
>>> \override Stem #'transparent = ##t
>>> \override TupletBracket #'bracket-visibility = ##f
>>
>> This could be added to ly/property-init.ly. Oh, and indentation.
>
Let me put it this way: should \hideNotes *only* hide the noteheads
and steams, or should \hideNotes hide everything? My first
instinct as that it should hide everything, but maybe somebody can
think of a reason why not. -- I mean, a reason that isn't highly
tweaked out, like making Schenkerian graphs with lilypond. People
doing that kind of stuff should be able to figure out the
\overrides on their own.
If we *can't* think of a reason why \hideNodes should leave the
slurs and tuplet brackets visible, then I would rather that you
dump your overrides into the existing \hideNotes macro.
By using a second voice with \hideNotes it is possible to have
overlapping printed slurs (slurs can't be attached to spacer rests).
Not sure if this is a good-enough reason though.
Trevor
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Re: Just chords and lyrics.
On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 08:15:39PM -0700, Carl D. Sorensen wrote:
>
> On 11/27/08 8:06 PM, "Jonathan Kulp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Graham Percival wrote:
> >> On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 08:22:51PM -0600, Jonathan Kulp wrote:
> >>> makeTransparent = {
> >>> \override NoteHead #'transparent = ##t
> >>> \override Stem #'transparent = ##t
> >>> \override TupletBracket #'bracket-visibility = ##f
> >>
> >> This could be added to ly/property-init.ly. Oh, and indentation.
> >
> > Are you saying it could be a new command that's part of Lilypond, or
> > that a user should add it to his own property-init.ly file?
No user should ever edit *-init.ly files. Yes, I'm saying that it
should be added to lilypond.
> > I don't
> > know if it would be a good idea to add it to the program's code, since
> > there are so many things that might need to be made transparent in a
> > given melody, some are bound to be left out and somebody would call it a
> > bug.
Then we fix the bug by adding a single line to property-init.ly.
Really, if all bug fixes are that easy, I could clear the 300-bug
backlog tonight. :)
> > Incidentally, this example should probably be a
> > snippet, since it has overrides, right?
That's why I'm suggesting that you add it to property-init.ly --
then it *won't* be a snippet, since it won't (explicitly) be using
overrides.
> >> And possibly a different name; makeTransparent sounds close to
> >> hideNotes.
> >>
> > I'll try to come up with something. My first one was \makeItVanish but
> > that seems too flippant for the docs :)
>
> How about hideVoiceNotation?
Maybe. Or what about hideNotation ?
Let me put it this way: should \hideNotes *only* hide the noteheads
and steams, or should \hideNotes hide everything? My first
instinct as that it should hide everything, but maybe somebody can
think of a reason why not. -- I mean, a reason that isn't highly
tweaked out, like making Schenkerian graphs with lilypond. People
doing that kind of stuff should be able to figure out the
\overrides on their own.
If we *can't* think of a reason why \hideNodes should leave the
slurs and tuplet brackets visible, then I would rather that you
dump your overrides into the existing \hideNotes macro.
Cheers,
- Graham
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Re: Just chords and lyrics.
Carl D. Sorensen wrote:
I'll try to come up with something. My first one was \makeItVanish but
that seems too flippant for the docs :)
How about hideVoiceNotation?
I like that.
Don't forget to include slurs.
Good catch. There are none in this example but it would be remiss not to
include slurs in the list.
text = \lyricmode {
Three words, then
two words. \melisma
Three \melismaEnd words, then
Two words.
}
Why do you use \melisma and \melismaEnd in the lyrics, rather than in the
notes?
Man, I have no idea. That was the first time I'd ever used those
commands and I wondered why they had no effect ;-). I saw that you used
them in this thread and didn't pay close enough attention to where you
put them. Duh...ok I found the message where you used them and now I
have 'em in the right place. That helps the spacing a tiny bit in the
devnull voice but it still looks pretty bad.
Thanks Carl,
Jon
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http://www.jonathankulp.com
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Re: Just chords and lyrics.
On 11/27/08 8:06 PM, "Jonathan Kulp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Graham Percival wrote:
>> On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 08:22:51PM -0600, Jonathan Kulp wrote:
>>> makeTransparent = {
>>> \override NoteHead #'transparent = ##t
>>> \override Stem #'transparent = ##t
>>> \override TupletBracket #'bracket-visibility = ##f
>>
>> This could be added to ly/property-init.ly. Oh, and indentation.
>
> Are you saying it could be a new command that's part of Lilypond, or
> that a user should add it to his own property-init.ly file? I don't
> know if it would be a good idea to add it to the program's code, since
> there are so many things that might need to be made transparent in a
> given melody, some are bound to be left out and somebody would call it a
> bug. This melody has ties, tuplets, dotted notes, and rests, but one
> could also have articulations, slurs, glissandos and dynamics, etc. I
> had to go to the Lilypond list of objects to figure out how to make all
> these transparent, and I was hoping that this example would also give
> someone reading the docs the hint that there are a lot of things to make
> transparent, and that not everything is made transparent with the same
> type of command--some are #'transparent = ##t while others are #'stencil
> = ##f, and the Tuplet brackets have still another override format.
> Hopefully with that many examples, users can figure out how to make
> everything transparent. Incidentally, this example should probably be a
> snippet, since it has overrides, right? Should all of these be
> snippets? The ones using \new Devnull don't have overrides so they
> could be part of the main text, I suppose.
>
> Indentation: I was working with strk's original code when making this
> but will adjust the indentation to conform to doc policies.
>
>> And possibly a different name; makeTransparent sounds close to
>> hideNotes.
>>
> I'll try to come up with something. My first one was \makeItVanish but
> that seems too flippant for the docs :)
How about hideVoiceNotation?
>
>> ... on second thought, why doesn't hideNotes contain all the above
>> overrides? Maybe it should...
>
> I tried using \hideNotes just now and it hides the notes, ledger lines,
> and dots, but not the tuplet objects, ties, and rests.
Don't forget to include slurs.
>
> text = \lyricmode {
>Three words, then
>two words. \melisma
>Three \melismaEnd words, then
>Two words.
> }
>
Why do you use \melisma and \melismaEnd in the lyrics, rather than in the
notes?
Carl
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Re: Just chords and lyrics.
Graham Percival wrote:
On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 08:22:51PM -0600, Jonathan Kulp wrote:
makeTransparent = {
\override NoteHead #'transparent = ##t
\override Stem #'transparent = ##t
\override TupletBracket #'bracket-visibility = ##f
This could be added to ly/property-init.ly. Oh, and indentation.
Are you saying it could be a new command that's part of Lilypond, or
that a user should add it to his own property-init.ly file? I don't
know if it would be a good idea to add it to the program's code, since
there are so many things that might need to be made transparent in a
given melody, some are bound to be left out and somebody would call it a
bug. This melody has ties, tuplets, dotted notes, and rests, but one
could also have articulations, slurs, glissandos and dynamics, etc. I
had to go to the Lilypond list of objects to figure out how to make all
these transparent, and I was hoping that this example would also give
someone reading the docs the hint that there are a lot of things to make
transparent, and that not everything is made transparent with the same
type of command--some are #'transparent = ##t while others are #'stencil
= ##f, and the Tuplet brackets have still another override format.
Hopefully with that many examples, users can figure out how to make
everything transparent. Incidentally, this example should probably be a
snippet, since it has overrides, right? Should all of these be
snippets? The ones using \new Devnull don't have overrides so they
could be part of the main text, I suppose.
Indentation: I was working with strk's original code when making this
but will adjust the indentation to conform to doc policies.
And possibly a different name; makeTransparent sounds close to
hideNotes.
I'll try to come up with something. My first one was \makeItVanish but
that seems too flippant for the docs :)
... on second thought, why doesn't hideNotes contain all the above
overrides? Maybe it should...
I tried using \hideNotes just now and it hides the notes, ledger lines,
and dots, but not the tuplet objects, ties, and rests.
For the minimal example in the docs, you would omit the \midi, of
course.
Right. Revised code below. Thanks for looking through this, Graham.
Jon
%
\version "2.11.64"
\paper {
indent = 0.0
}
makeInvisible = {
\override NoteHead #'transparent = ##t
\override Stem #'transparent = ##t
\override TupletBracket #'bracket-visibility = ##f
\override TupletNumber #'stencil = ##f
\override Accidental #'transparent = ##t
\override Tie #'transparent = ##t
\override Dots #'transparent = ##t
\override Staff.LedgerLineSpanner #'transparent = ##t
\override Beam #'transparent = ##t
\override Rest #'transparent = ##t
}
text = \lyricmode {
Three words, then
two words. \melisma
Three \melismaEnd words, then
Two words.
}
%- Melody -- }{
melody = \relative c'' {
r4 e e4. e8 |
a4. d,8~ d2 |
r2 \times 2/3 { d4 b4 gis4 } |
b,4. e8 ~ e2 |
}
nullMelody = \relative c'' {
e4 e e2 | e2 e | \times 2/3 {d2 d d } | e4 e ~ e2 |
}
%- Chords -- }{
harmonies = \chordmode {
a1:m | d:m | e:7 | a:m |
}
% The original melody, chords, and lyrics
\score {
<<
\new ChordNames { \harmonies }
\new Staff {
\new Voice = "vocal" { \melody }
}
\new Lyrics \lyricsto "vocal" \text
>>
\layout {}
}
% The chord symbols, a blank staff, and lyrics
\score {
<<
\new ChordNames { \harmonies }
\new Staff {
\new Voice = "vocal" { \makeInvisible \melody }
}
\new Lyrics \lyricsto "vocal" \text
>>
\layout {}
}
% just chord symbols and lyrics with original melody
% spacing is all jacked up.
\score {
<<
\new ChordNames { \harmonies }
\new Devnull = "vocal" { \melody }
\new Lyrics \lyricsto "vocal" \text
>>
\layout {}
}
% just chord symbols and lyrics
% This one created with a separate melody defined for the
% devnull context to improve spacing.
\score {
<<
\new ChordNames { \harmonies }
\new Devnull = "vocal" { \nullMelody }
\new Lyrics \lyricsto "vocal" \text
>>
\layout {}
}
%- END -- }
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Re: Just chords and lyrics.
On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 08:22:51PM -0600, Jonathan Kulp wrote:
> makeTransparent = {
> \override NoteHead #'transparent = ##t
> \override Stem #'transparent = ##t
> \override TupletBracket #'bracket-visibility = ##f
This could be added to ly/property-init.ly. Oh, and indentation.
And possibly a different name; makeTransparent sounds close to
hideNotes.
... on second thought, why doesn't hideNotes contain all the above
overrides? Maybe it should...
> \midi {
> \context {
> \Score
> tempoWholesPerMinute = #(ly:make-moment 270 8)
> }
> }
For the minimal example in the docs, you would omit the \midi, of
course.
Cheers,
- Graham
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Re: Just chords and lyrics.
Carl D. Sorensen wrote:
For me the main issue here is that if I *only* want chords and lyrics, I
want the lyrics to be spaced according to proper typography, and I want the
chords to just follow along with the lyrics, instead of having both the
chords and the lyrics spaced according to the duration of the non-visible
music.
I can't see how LilyPond can accomplish this in it's current incarnation.
But what we're doing is the best that can be done, AFAICS.
Thanks,
Carl
Agreed. I'm working on the minimal examples right now for the docs, and
I'm having trouble making the one with just the lyrics and chordnames
look decent. I don't see any way to do it except to create a different
melody for the devnull context than what's in the regular voices, so
that you can assign lyrics to notes that are more evenly spaced, without
rests between them.
But if you have to do this to make it look good, then there's no benefit
that I can see to using Lilypond for it. The only sensible argument
*for* using Lilypond to do this was that you could use existing lilypond
code to create a separate part with just chordnames and lyrics. Unless
your original melody is extremely simple with no rests, then the result
is likely to be poor.
Here's the code for my examples so far. I have an original melody
(everything visible) and its derivatives. The last example looks
halfway decent because I created a different melody to go with it. As
long as I have to do this extra work to make it look right, I'd rather
just use guitarTeX or a word processor and make it look even better.
Any thoughts?
Jon
%%
\version "2.11.64"
%- Lyrics -- {
\paper {
indent = 0.0
}
makeTransparent = {
\override NoteHead #'transparent = ##t
\override Stem #'transparent = ##t
\override TupletBracket #'bracket-visibility = ##f
\override TupletNumber #'stencil = ##f
\override Accidental #'transparent = ##t
\override Tie #'transparent = ##t
\override Dots #'transparent = ##t
\override Staff.LedgerLineSpanner #'transparent = ##t
\override Beam #'transparent = ##t
\override Rest #'transparent = ##t
}
text = \lyricmode {
Three words, then
two words. \melisma
Three \melismaEnd words, then
Two words.
}
%- Melody -- }{
melody = \relative c'' {
r4 e e4. e8 |
a4. d,8~ d2 |
r2 \times 2/3 { d4 b4 gis4 } |
b,4. e8 ~ e2 |
}
nullMelody = \relative c'' {
e4 e e2 | e2 e | \times 2/3 {d2 d d } | e4 e ~ e2 |
}
%- Chords -- }{
harmonies = \chordmode {
a1:m | d:m | e:7 | a:m |
}
% The original melody, chords, and lyrics
\score {
<<
\new ChordNames { \harmonies }
\new Staff {
\new Voice = "vocal" { \melody }
}
\new Lyrics \lyricsto "vocal" \text
>>
\midi {
\context {
\Score
tempoWholesPerMinute = #(ly:make-moment 270 8)
}
}
\layout {}
}
% The chord symbols, a blank staff, and lyrics
\score {
<<
\new ChordNames { \harmonies }
\new Staff {
\new Voice = "vocal" { \makeTransparent \melody }
}
\new Lyrics \lyricsto "vocal" \text
>>
\midi {
\context {
\Score
tempoWholesPerMinute = #(ly:make-moment 270 8)
}
}
\layout {}
}
% just chord symbols and lyrics with original melody
% spacing is all jacked up.
\score {
<<
\new ChordNames { \harmonies }
\new Devnull = "vocal" { \melody }
\new Lyrics \lyricsto "vocal" \text
>>
\midi {
\context {
\Score
tempoWholesPerMinute = #(ly:make-moment 270 8)
}
}
\layout {}
}
% just chord symbols and lyrics
% This one created with a separate melody defined for the
% devnull context to improve spacing.
\score {
<<
\new ChordNames { \harmonies }
\new Devnull = "vocal" { \nullMelody }
\new Lyrics \lyricsto "vocal" \text
>>
\midi {
\context {
\Score
tempoWholesPerMinute = #(ly:make-moment 270 8)
}
}
\layout {}
}
%- END -- }
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Re: Just chords and lyrics.
For me the main issue here is that if I *only* want chords and lyrics, I want the lyrics to be spaced according to proper typography, and I want the chords to just follow along with the lyrics, instead of having both the chords and the lyrics spaced according to the duration of the non-visible music. I can't see how LilyPond can accomplish this in it's current incarnation. But what we're doing is the best that can be done, AFAICS. Thanks, Carl ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Just chords and lyrics.
Carl D. Sorensen wrote: I got exactly the same output with the Devnull approach as with the durations added to the lyrics. I can't see any difference at all in the output of the two approaches. Are you doing something different? If so, I'd really like to see it. Thanks, Carl The difference turned out to be that I had used line breaks, and the output wasn't crammed all to one side. It turns out that this also works with the devnull approach, and the output is the same. Brett ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Just chords and lyrics.
Carl D. Sorensen wrote: That sounds good. Where do the most current .itely files live now? If you want I'll add a bit about this. I'll create a branch for your documentation and give you a copy of the current .itely file, but it will probably be Friday (but maybe tomorrow). Carl Ok Carl, that sounds good. No hurry about it--we're off of school b/c of Thanksgiving anyway. Best, Jon -- Jonathan Kulp http://www.jonathankulp.com ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Just chords and lyrics.
"Carl D. Sorensen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > But LilyPond is transposable, ... one of the things I > really like about LilyPond is that I can transpose songs > automatically. Chordii can handle that as well. -- Johan Chord is alive! http://chordii.sourceforge.net ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Just chords and lyrics.
2008/11/27 Jonathan Kulp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Now, the @TODO in the .itely file was, I think, referring to a different > sort of "just chords and lyrics," where there was actually no music staff at > all, just chord symbols and lyrics. *That* was the result for which I > recommended a word processor since it contained no music notation > whatsoever. Does anyone think it's worthwhile to make Lilypond produce > something like this: > > CGC D > Words words words to the Song song song > > My opinion when doing the docs was that you essentially had to break > Lilypond to make it do this. It would be like me driving an 18-wheeler to > get to my next-door neighbor's house instead of just walking over > there--totally inappropriate tool for the job. If anyone sees a reason why > Lilypond should do this, then they're welcome ... Thank you, Jon, this all is what I tried to answer first, but not mastering the English language I put it in too few words. -- Francisco Vila. Badajoz (Spain) http://www.paconet.org ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Just chords and lyrics.
2008/11/26 strk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 06:49:11PM +0100, Francisco Vila wrote: >> 2008/11/25 Keith Weintraub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: >> > Folks, >> > Anyone have an example (forgive me if I missed it in the docs) of just >> > chords >> > and lyrics? >> > >> > I don't want to worry about the notes and just want to put word phrases >> > more-or-less aligned with the correct measures. >> >> You do not need a music score typesetting system to do this, just use >> a word processor or a spreadsheet. >> What exactly do you think LP could be useful for? > > Hey, don't be rude! Sorry, not intended. I meant, What exactly do you think LP could be useful for, in this task? you have answered later. > I think LP is useful because I don't *always* want that, but just > as *one* of the outputs. -- Francisco Vila. Badajoz (Spain) http://www.paconet.org ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Just chords and lyrics.
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 07:49:44PM -0600, Jonathan Kulp wrote: > I took strk's example and turned it into what I think he wants by the > rather crude method of making everything in the melody transparent and > turning the rests into skips. This works better than devnull for > preserving the placement of the text under the staff and it also runs > without warnings. Confirmed. Thanks, I'm going to use this :) --strk; ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Just chords and lyrics.
On 11/26/08 9:27 PM, "Brett Duncan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Sometimes you want this as part of a larger set of outputs, e.g. you are
> printing out parts for the vocalist, bass, sax AND the guitarist who
> just wants the lyrics and the chords (because he can't/won't read
> musical notation). It would obviously be nice to have LP generate this
> as well as the other required parts, rather than having to re-create
> work you've already done in another application.
>
> Having said that, the output from the solutions proposed so far is
> indeed awful. The only way I have found that gives a reasonable output
> is to add the durations to the lyrics and not use the DevNull approach.
I got exactly the same output with the Devnull approach as with the
durations added to the lyrics.
%%% Sample code, you can try it with Devnull and with durations on lyrics
\version "2.11.64"
myChords = \chordmode {
c1 g f c
}
myMelody = {
c2 c4 c4 |
c4 c c c |
c4 c c c |
c2 c
}
myLyrics = \lyricmode {
Hi there let's |
have fun with this |
Here we have fun |
don't we
}
durationLyrics = \lyricmode{
Hi2 there4 let's |
have4 fun with this |
Here4 we have fun |
don't2 we
}
<<
\new ChordNames {
\myChords
}
% \new Devnull = "myVoice" \myMelody
\new Lyrics {
\durationLyrics
% \lyricsto "myVoice" \myLyrics
}
>>
%%% End of sample code
I can't see any difference at all in the output of the two approaches.
Are you doing something different? If so, I'd really like to see it.
Thanks,
Carl
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Re: Just chords and lyrics.
Brett Duncan wrote: Jonathan Kulp wrote: Yes, this works, but it only confirms my belief that someone who wants this really would be better off with a word processor or GuitarTeX. The spacing looks awful without a staff, not at all the sort of thing you normally see in a songbook of this type. (If the staff is present, at least the spacing makes sense because you can see where the words are supposed to fall inside the measures.) The output of GuitarTeX looks exactly like a lyrics/chordnames songsheet is supposed to look, so I would recommend pointing people to that instead of trying to make Lilypond do it. Maybe we should put an example in the docs anyway, though. I suppose at the very least it would show people how to do it and it wouldn't come up on the list anymore (or we'd have a place to direct them when it did). Maybe we could do one example with a blank staff and one without any staff at all? Jon Sometimes you want this as part of a larger set of outputs, e.g. you are printing out parts for the vocalist, bass, sax AND the guitarist who just wants the lyrics and the chords (because he can't/won't read musical notation). It would obviously be nice to have LP generate this as well as the other required parts, rather than having to re-create work you've already done in another application. Having said that, the output from the solutions proposed so far is indeed awful. The only way I have found that gives a reasonable output is to add the durations to the lyrics and not use the DevNull approach. Brett This is certainly a good reason to use Lilypond for it. Do you have a brief example that shows how you do it? Maybe it would be a good one for the documentation. Best, Jon -- Jonathan Kulp http://www.jonathankulp.com ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Just chords and lyrics.
Jonathan Kulp wrote: Yes, this works, but it only confirms my belief that someone who wants this really would be better off with a word processor or GuitarTeX. The spacing looks awful without a staff, not at all the sort of thing you normally see in a songbook of this type. (If the staff is present, at least the spacing makes sense because you can see where the words are supposed to fall inside the measures.) The output of GuitarTeX looks exactly like a lyrics/chordnames songsheet is supposed to look, so I would recommend pointing people to that instead of trying to make Lilypond do it. Maybe we should put an example in the docs anyway, though. I suppose at the very least it would show people how to do it and it wouldn't come up on the list anymore (or we'd have a place to direct them when it did). Maybe we could do one example with a blank staff and one without any staff at all? Jon Sometimes you want this as part of a larger set of outputs, e.g. you are printing out parts for the vocalist, bass, sax AND the guitarist who just wants the lyrics and the chords (because he can't/won't read musical notation). It would obviously be nice to have LP generate this as well as the other required parts, rather than having to re-create work you've already done in another application. Having said that, the output from the solutions proposed so far is indeed awful. The only way I have found that gives a reasonable output is to add the durations to the lyrics and not use the DevNull approach. Brett ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Just chords and lyrics.
On 11/26/08 8:21 PM, "Jonathan Kulp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Carl D. Sorensen wrote: > >>> Lilypond do it. Maybe we should put an example in the docs anyway, >>> though. I suppose at the very least it would show people how to do it >>> and it wouldn't come up on the list anymore (or we'd have a place to >>> direct them when it did). Maybe we could do one example with a blank >>> staff and one without any staff at all? >> >> That probably makes sense. When I just wanted chords and lyrics, I used >> GuitarTex. >> >> But LilyPond is transposable, and GuitarTex is not; one of the things I >> really like about LilyPond is that I can transpose songs automatically. > > Really? The documentation for GuitarTeX mentions a transpose command so > I assumed one could transpose with it. Oops, I was thinking of gchords, not GuitarTeX. GuitarTex is only available on Linux, and I was running Windows at the time I was setting song sheets. So I used gchords, which has no transpose function. One can transpose with GuitarTex. > >> >> I guess we should at least show the best we can do in the docs (and maybe >> even have a reference to some of the other programs that can be used for >> chords and lyrics). >> >> Carl >> >> > That sounds good. Where do the most current .itely files live now? If > you want I'll add a bit about this. I'll create a branch for your documentation and give you a copy of the current .itely file, but it will probably be Friday (but maybe tomorrow). Carl ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Just chords and lyrics.
Carl D. Sorensen wrote: Lilypond do it. Maybe we should put an example in the docs anyway, though. I suppose at the very least it would show people how to do it and it wouldn't come up on the list anymore (or we'd have a place to direct them when it did). Maybe we could do one example with a blank staff and one without any staff at all? That probably makes sense. When I just wanted chords and lyrics, I used GuitarTex. But LilyPond is transposable, and GuitarTex is not; one of the things I really like about LilyPond is that I can transpose songs automatically. Really? The documentation for GuitarTeX mentions a transpose command so I assumed one could transpose with it. I guess we should at least show the best we can do in the docs (and maybe even have a reference to some of the other programs that can be used for chords and lyrics). Carl That sounds good. Where do the most current .itely files live now? If you want I'll add a bit about this. Jon -- Jonathan Kulp http://www.jonathankulp.com ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Just chords and lyrics.
On 11/26/08 7:15 PM, "Jonathan Kulp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Carl D. Sorensen wrote: >> Jon, > > Yes, this works, but it only confirms my belief that someone who wants > this really would be better off with a word processor or GuitarTeX. The > spacing looks awful without a staff, not at all the sort of thing you > normally see in a songbook of this type. (If the staff is present, at > least the spacing makes sense because you can see where the words are > supposed to fall inside the measures.) The output of GuitarTeX looks > exactly like a lyrics/chordnames songsheet is supposed to look, so I > would recommend pointing people to that instead of trying to make > Lilypond do it. Maybe we should put an example in the docs anyway, > though. I suppose at the very least it would show people how to do it > and it wouldn't come up on the list anymore (or we'd have a place to > direct them when it did). Maybe we could do one example with a blank > staff and one without any staff at all? That probably makes sense. When I just wanted chords and lyrics, I used GuitarTex. But LilyPond is transposable, and GuitarTex is not; one of the things I really like about LilyPond is that I can transpose songs automatically. I guess we should at least show the best we can do in the docs (and maybe even have a reference to some of the other programs that can be used for chords and lyrics). Carl ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Just chords and lyrics.
Carl D. Sorensen wrote:
Jon,
If you take away the Staff from strk's example, and do it the way I had my
original, you'll have just what you want.
The score should contain:
<<
\new ChordNames {
\myChords
}
\new Devnull = "Melody" {
\myMelody
}
\new Lyrics {
\lyricsto "Melody" \myMelody
}
Try my second example (the first one was broken).
Carl
Yes, this works, but it only confirms my belief that someone who wants
this really would be better off with a word processor or GuitarTeX. The
spacing looks awful without a staff, not at all the sort of thing you
normally see in a songbook of this type. (If the staff is present, at
least the spacing makes sense because you can see where the words are
supposed to fall inside the measures.) The output of GuitarTeX looks
exactly like a lyrics/chordnames songsheet is supposed to look, so I
would recommend pointing people to that instead of trying to make
Lilypond do it. Maybe we should put an example in the docs anyway,
though. I suppose at the very least it would show people how to do it
and it wouldn't come up on the list anymore (or we'd have a place to
direct them when it did). Maybe we could do one example with a blank
staff and one without any staff at all?
Jon
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http://www.jonathankulp.com
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Re: Just chords and lyrics.
Jon,
If you take away the Staff from strk's example, and do it the way I had my
original, you'll have just what you want.
The score should contain:
<<
\new ChordNames {
\myChords
}
\new Devnull = "Melody" {
\myMelody
}
\new Lyrics {
\lyricsto "Melody" \myMelody
}
>>
Try my second example (the first one was broken).
Carl
On 11/26/08 6:49 PM, "Jonathan Kulp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Carl D. Sorensen wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 11/26/08 4:34 PM, "strk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 05:07:42PM -0600, Jonathan Kulp wrote:
>>>
>>>> If a good way to do this arises from this thread, let's add it to the
>>>> fretted-strings.itely file for future ref. It was a @TODO when I was
>>>> rewriting fretted strings but it was something I didn't see the need for
>>>> (I had the "use a word processor" advice, too) and didn't care enough
>>>> about it to make a good example. Graham warned me that someone asks
>>>> about it at least twice a year so let's try to get a good minimal
>>>> example for the docs from this thread.
>>> Would be nice to find a warning-free version too.
>>> My current version prints fine, but keeps giving those scary warnings:
>>>
>>> warning: Lyric syllable does not have note.
>>> Use \lyricsto or associatedVoice.
>>>
>>> And you're using \lyricsto ...
>>>
>>
>> Warning free won't happen an long as we're using Devnull. Maybe when I get
>> my Scheme function written
>>
>> Carl
>>
>>
>
> I took strk's example and turned it into what I think he wants by the
> rather crude method of making everything in the melody transparent and
> turning the rests into skips. This works better than devnull for
> preserving the placement of the text under the staff and it also runs
> without warnings. Downside is that for each piece there'll be some
> variation in what objects need to be made invisible. I put all the
> transparency overrides in a variable and added it in the \score block so
> that the \melody variable could be used elsewhere if necessary as a
> visible melody. (Actually you'd have to turn the melody's skips back
> into rests and then make them transparent for this to work but you get
> the idea...) I copy a minimal example from his "Amado mio" below.
>
> Now, the @TODO in the .itely file was, I think, referring to a different
> sort of "just chords and lyrics," where there was actually no music
> staff at all, just chord symbols and lyrics. *That* was the result for
> which I recommended a word processor since it contained no music
> notation whatsoever. Does anyone think it's worthwhile to make Lilypond
> produce something like this:
>
> CGC D
> Words words words to the Song song song
>
> My opinion when doing the docs was that you essentially had to break
> Lilypond to make it do this. It would be like me driving an 18-wheeler
> to get to my next-door neighbor's house instead of just walking over
> there--totally inappropriate tool for the job. If anyone sees a reason
> why Lilypond should do this, then they're welcome to create a minimal
> example that we can put in the docs, otherwise I'd recommend a word
> processor, or better yet, something like GuitarTeX:
>
> http://guitartex.sourceforge.net/en/guitartex/book1.html
>
> I haven't tried it, but it seems like GuitarTeX would probably work well
> with LaTeX and by extension with Lilypond-book. GuitarTeX does
> precisely the Lyrics/chord-symbols format and supports transposition,
> which is what many people cite as a reason to use Lilypond.
>
> Ok strk's example is below.
>
> Jon
>
> --
> Jonathan Kulp
> http://www.jonathankulp.com
>
> %%
>
> \version "2.11.64"
>
> %- Lyrics -- {
>
> makeitvanish = {
> \override NoteHead #'transparent = ##t
> \override Stem #'transparent = ##t
> \override TupletBracket #'bracket-visibility = ##f
> \override TupletNumber #'stencil = ##f
> \override Accidental #'transparent = ##t
> \override Tie #'transparent = ##t
> \override Dots #'transparent = ##t
> \override Staff.LedgerLineSpanner #'transparent = ##t
> \override Beam #'transparent = ##t
> }
>
> text = \lyricmode {
> A -- ma -- do
> mi -- o
> love me for --
&g
Re: Just chords and lyrics.
Carl D. Sorensen wrote:
On 11/26/08 4:34 PM, "strk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 05:07:42PM -0600, Jonathan Kulp wrote:
If a good way to do this arises from this thread, let's add it to the
fretted-strings.itely file for future ref. It was a @TODO when I was
rewriting fretted strings but it was something I didn't see the need for
(I had the "use a word processor" advice, too) and didn't care enough
about it to make a good example. Graham warned me that someone asks
about it at least twice a year so let's try to get a good minimal
example for the docs from this thread.
Would be nice to find a warning-free version too.
My current version prints fine, but keeps giving those scary warnings:
warning: Lyric syllable does not have note.
Use \lyricsto or associatedVoice.
And you're using \lyricsto ...
Warning free won't happen an long as we're using Devnull. Maybe when I get
my Scheme function written
Carl
I took strk's example and turned it into what I think he wants by the
rather crude method of making everything in the melody transparent and
turning the rests into skips. This works better than devnull for
preserving the placement of the text under the staff and it also runs
without warnings. Downside is that for each piece there'll be some
variation in what objects need to be made invisible. I put all the
transparency overrides in a variable and added it in the \score block so
that the \melody variable could be used elsewhere if necessary as a
visible melody. (Actually you'd have to turn the melody's skips back
into rests and then make them transparent for this to work but you get
the idea...) I copy a minimal example from his "Amado mio" below.
Now, the @TODO in the .itely file was, I think, referring to a different
sort of "just chords and lyrics," where there was actually no music
staff at all, just chord symbols and lyrics. *That* was the result for
which I recommended a word processor since it contained no music
notation whatsoever. Does anyone think it's worthwhile to make Lilypond
produce something like this:
CGC D
Words words words to the Song song song
My opinion when doing the docs was that you essentially had to break
Lilypond to make it do this. It would be like me driving an 18-wheeler
to get to my next-door neighbor's house instead of just walking over
there--totally inappropriate tool for the job. If anyone sees a reason
why Lilypond should do this, then they're welcome to create a minimal
example that we can put in the docs, otherwise I'd recommend a word
processor, or better yet, something like GuitarTeX:
http://guitartex.sourceforge.net/en/guitartex/book1.html
I haven't tried it, but it seems like GuitarTeX would probably work well
with LaTeX and by extension with Lilypond-book. GuitarTeX does
precisely the Lyrics/chord-symbols format and supports transposition,
which is what many people cite as a reason to use Lilypond.
Ok strk's example is below.
Jon
--
Jonathan Kulp
http://www.jonathankulp.com
%%
\version "2.11.64"
%- Lyrics -- {
makeitvanish = {
\override NoteHead #'transparent = ##t
\override Stem #'transparent = ##t
\override TupletBracket #'bracket-visibility = ##f
\override TupletNumber #'stencil = ##f
\override Accidental #'transparent = ##t
\override Tie #'transparent = ##t
\override Dots #'transparent = ##t
\override Staff.LedgerLineSpanner #'transparent = ##t
\override Beam #'transparent = ##t
}
text = \lyricmode {
A -- ma -- do
mi -- o
love me for --
e -- ver
}
%- Melody -- }{
melody = \relative c'' {
\time 4/4
% Amado mio
s4 e a4. c,8 |
e4. d8~ d2 |
s2 \times 2/3 { d4 e4 f4 } |
f4. e8 ~ e2 |
%\break
}
%- Chords -- }{
harmonies = \chordmode {
% amado | mio | love me for | ever
a1:m | d:m | e:7 | a:m |
}
%- Score -- }{
\score {
<<
\new ChordNames {
%\set chordChanges = ##t
%\set Staff.midiInstrument = "church organ"
\harmonies
}
\new Staff {
\set Staff.instrumentName = #"Voice"
\new Voice = "vocal" { \makeitvanish \melody }
% \new Devnull = "vocal" \melody
}
\new Lyrics \lyricsto "vocal" \text
>>
\midi {
\context {
\Score
tempoWhole
Re: Just chords and lyrics.
On 11/26/08 4:34 PM, "strk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 05:07:42PM -0600, Jonathan Kulp wrote: > >> If a good way to do this arises from this thread, let's add it to the >> fretted-strings.itely file for future ref. It was a @TODO when I was >> rewriting fretted strings but it was something I didn't see the need for >> (I had the "use a word processor" advice, too) and didn't care enough >> about it to make a good example. Graham warned me that someone asks >> about it at least twice a year so let's try to get a good minimal >> example for the docs from this thread. > > Would be nice to find a warning-free version too. > My current version prints fine, but keeps giving those scary warnings: > > warning: Lyric syllable does not have note. > Use \lyricsto or associatedVoice. > > And you're using \lyricsto ... > Warning free won't happen an long as we're using Devnull. Maybe when I get my Scheme function written Carl ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Just chords and lyrics.
The right way to do this is to develop a function that adds durations to
lyric syllables based on a music expression (you can see the prototype in
the \lyricsto c++ source code). I plan to work on this sometime in the
future (probably first with scheme).
I think it can solve the \lyricsto \partcombine problem, too. But we'll
see.
The current workaround is somewhat awkward, but it's usable. It's just a
tweak to the example already in the docs (adding the manual melismata in the
melody).
Carl
On 11/26/08 4:07 PM, "Jonathan Kulp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Carl D. Sorensen wrote:
>>
>>
>> The problem is that the implicit melismata generated by the ties are ignored
>> in the Devnull context, as described in the 2.11 documentation (Notation
>> Ref. Section 2.1.4 Specific Lyrics, subsection Lyrics independent of notes).
>>
>> Note: Use the 2.11 docs instead of the 2.10 docs, they're much better -- and
>> you ought to consider moving to the latest version. It's probably less
>> buggy than the stable version.
>>
>> The workaround is to put manual melismata in the melody. Here's an example
>> for the first tied note:
>>
>> % Amado mio
>> r4 e a4. c,8 |
>> e4. d8~ \melisma d2 \melismaEnd |
>> r2 \times 2/3 { d4 e4 f4 } |
>> f4. e8 ~ e2 |
>> %\break
>>
>> When you do this, you will get the correct placement of the lyrics both with
>> the melody and without the melody.
>>
>> HTH,
>>
>> Carl
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>
> Carl,
>
> If a good way to do this arises from this thread, let's add it to the
> fretted-strings.itely file for future ref. It was a @TODO when I was
> rewriting fretted strings but it was something I didn't see the need for
> (I had the "use a word processor" advice, too) and didn't care enough
> about it to make a good example. Graham warned me that someone asks
> about it at least twice a year so let's try to get a good minimal
> example for the docs from this thread.
>
> Jon
> --
> Jonathan Kulp
> http://www.jonathankulp.com
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Re: Just chords and lyrics.
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 05:07:42PM -0600, Jonathan Kulp wrote: > If a good way to do this arises from this thread, let's add it to the > fretted-strings.itely file for future ref. It was a @TODO when I was > rewriting fretted strings but it was something I didn't see the need for > (I had the "use a word processor" advice, too) and didn't care enough > about it to make a good example. Graham warned me that someone asks > about it at least twice a year so let's try to get a good minimal > example for the docs from this thread. Would be nice to find a warning-free version too. My current version prints fine, but keeps giving those scary warnings: warning: Lyric syllable does not have note. Use \lyricsto or associatedVoice. And you're using \lyricsto ... --strk; ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Just chords and lyrics.
Carl D. Sorensen wrote:
The problem is that the implicit melismata generated by the ties are ignored
in the Devnull context, as described in the 2.11 documentation (Notation
Ref. Section 2.1.4 Specific Lyrics, subsection Lyrics independent of notes).
Note: Use the 2.11 docs instead of the 2.10 docs, they're much better -- and
you ought to consider moving to the latest version. It's probably less
buggy than the stable version.
The workaround is to put manual melismata in the melody. Here's an example
for the first tied note:
% Amado mio
r4 e a4. c,8 |
e4. d8~ \melisma d2 \melismaEnd |
r2 \times 2/3 { d4 e4 f4 } |
f4. e8 ~ e2 |
%\break
When you do this, you will get the correct placement of the lyrics both with
the melody and without the melody.
HTH,
Carl
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Carl,
If a good way to do this arises from this thread, let's add it to the
fretted-strings.itely file for future ref. It was a @TODO when I was
rewriting fretted strings but it was something I didn't see the need for
(I had the "use a word processor" advice, too) and didn't care enough
about it to make a good example. Graham warned me that someone asks
about it at least twice a year so let's try to get a good minimal
example for the docs from this thread.
Jon
--
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http://www.jonathankulp.com
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Re: Just chords and lyrics.
On 11/26/08 3:52 PM, "strk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Thanks !
> Too verbose for my taste but oh well...
You could define your own commands (right after
the \version statement):
#(define ms melisma)
#(define me melismaEnd)
and then change your melody to
% Amado mio
r4 e a4. c,8 |
e4. d8~ \ms d2 \me |
r2 \times 2/3 { d4 e4 f4 } |
f4. e8 ~ e2 |
%\break
which is much less verbose.
HTH,
Carl
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Re: Just chords and lyrics.
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 03:30:31PM -0700, Carl D. Sorensen wrote:
> On 11/26/08 2:59 PM, "strk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Confront these two:
> >
> > (1)
> > http://foo.keybit.net/~strk/tmp/amadomio.pdf
> > http://foo.keybit.net/~strk/tmp/amadomio.ly
> >
> > (2)
> > http://foo.keybit.net/~strk/tmp/amadomio-devnull.pdf
> > http://foo.keybit.net/~strk/tmp/amadomio-devnull.ly
>
> The problem is that the implicit melismata generated by the ties are ignored
> in the Devnull context, as described in the 2.11 documentation (Notation
> Ref. Section 2.1.4 Specific Lyrics, subsection Lyrics independent of notes).
>
[..]
> The workaround is to put manual melismata in the melody. Here's an example
> for the first tied note:
>
> % Amado mio
> r4 e a4. c,8 |
> e4. d8~ \melisma d2 \melismaEnd |
> r2 \times 2/3 { d4 e4 f4 } |
> f4. e8 ~ e2 |
> %\break
Thanks !
Too verbose for my taste but oh well...
--strk;
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Re: Just chords and lyrics.
On 11/26/08 2:59 PM, "strk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 02:45:54PM -0700, Carl D. Sorensen wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On 11/26/08 2:43 PM, "strk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 09:57:43PM -0700, Carl D. Sorensen wrote:
Here's one possible solution:
\version "2.11.64"
>>>
\new Devnull = "myVoice" \myMelody
\new Lyrics {
\lyricsto "myVoice" \myLyrics
}
>>>
>>> I tried with 2.10.33 but doesn't work.
>>> I get the warnigns you mention, but lyrics aren't aligned correctly.
>>
>> How are the lyrics incorrectly aligned?
>
> Confront these two:
>
> (1)
> http://foo.keybit.net/~strk/tmp/amadomio.pdf
> http://foo.keybit.net/~strk/tmp/amadomio.ly
>
> (2)
> http://foo.keybit.net/~strk/tmp/amadomio-devnull.pdf
> http://foo.keybit.net/~strk/tmp/amadomio-devnull.ly
The problem is that the implicit melismata generated by the ties are ignored
in the Devnull context, as described in the 2.11 documentation (Notation
Ref. Section 2.1.4 Specific Lyrics, subsection Lyrics independent of notes).
Note: Use the 2.11 docs instead of the 2.10 docs, they're much better -- and
you ought to consider moving to the latest version. It's probably less
buggy than the stable version.
The workaround is to put manual melismata in the melody. Here's an example
for the first tied note:
% Amado mio
r4 e a4. c,8 |
e4. d8~ \melisma d2 \melismaEnd |
r2 \times 2/3 { d4 e4 f4 } |
f4. e8 ~ e2 |
%\break
When you do this, you will get the correct placement of the lyrics both with
the melody and without the melody.
HTH,
Carl
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Re: Just chords and lyrics.
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 02:45:54PM -0700, Carl D. Sorensen wrote:
>
>
>
> On 11/26/08 2:43 PM, "strk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 09:57:43PM -0700, Carl D. Sorensen wrote:
> >> Here's one possible solution:
> >>
> >> \version "2.11.64"
> >
> >> \new Devnull = "myVoice" \myMelody
> >> \new Lyrics {
> >> \lyricsto "myVoice" \myLyrics
> >> }
> >
> > I tried with 2.10.33 but doesn't work.
> > I get the warnigns you mention, but lyrics aren't aligned correctly.
>
> How are the lyrics incorrectly aligned?
Confront these two:
(1)
http://foo.keybit.net/~strk/tmp/amadomio.pdf
http://foo.keybit.net/~strk/tmp/amadomio.ly
(2)
http://foo.keybit.net/~strk/tmp/amadomio-devnull.pdf
http://foo.keybit.net/~strk/tmp/amadomio-devnull.ly
--strk;
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Re: Just chords and lyrics.
On 11/26/08 2:43 PM, "strk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 09:57:43PM -0700, Carl D. Sorensen wrote:
>> Here's one possible solution:
>>
>> \version "2.11.64"
>
>> \new Devnull = "myVoice" \myMelody
>> \new Lyrics {
>> \lyricsto "myVoice" \myLyrics
>> }
>
> I tried with 2.10.33 but doesn't work.
> I get the warnigns you mention, but lyrics aren't aligned correctly.
How are the lyrics incorrectly aligned?
Carl
>
> Warnings are like:
> warning: cannot find Voice `myVoice'
> and
> warning: Lyric syllable does not have note. Use \lyricsto or associatedVoice.
Yes, these are the warnings I saw.
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Re: Just chords and lyrics.
On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 09:57:43PM -0700, Carl D. Sorensen wrote:
> Here's one possible solution:
>
> \version "2.11.64"
> \new Devnull = "myVoice" \myMelody
> \new Lyrics {
> \lyricsto "myVoice" \myLyrics
> }
I tried with 2.10.33 but doesn't work.
I get the warnigns you mention, but lyrics aren't aligned correctly.
Warnings are like:
warning: cannot find Voice `myVoice'
and
warning: Lyric syllable does not have note. Use \lyricsto or associatedVoice.
--strk;
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Re: Just chords and lyrics.
On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 06:49:11PM +0100, Francisco Vila wrote: > 2008/11/25 Keith Weintraub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > Folks, > > Anyone have an example (forgive me if I missed it in the docs) of just > > chords > > and lyrics? > > > > I don't want to worry about the notes and just want to put word phrases > > more-or-less aligned with the correct measures. > > You do not need a music score typesetting system to do this, just use > a word processor or a spreadsheet. > What exactly do you think LP could be useful for? Hey, don't be rude! I need the same thing :) I think LP is useful because I don't *always* want that, but just as *one* of the outputs. For example, I produced a sheet with melody, harmony, bassline, chords and lyrics. For a single staff, it fits 2 A4, so it's nice and short. With all staffs it needs 6 pages... So, I was thinking I'd have a bass/chords/lyrics version (2 pages) and a drum/chords/lyrics version (2 pages) and a melody/chords/lyrics version (2 pages) and maybe (why not) a blank/chords/lyrics. The latter would be nice to have to let me take notes with pencil over the printed pages, for fixing interesting things I may find while playing. Could also have a blank piano staff for that. Now, the problem with the above is that I couldn't handle to make the documetned "Devnull" approach work to hide the meoldy but still have lyrics aligned. Does anyone have an example of that ? The .ly file with all staffs (forgive me, drums are just a stub): http://foo.keybit.net/~strk/tmp/amadomio.ly --strk; ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Just chords and lyrics.
Absolutely, if you only want to make nothing but chords and lyrics.
However, if you want to set music, and then make an extraction containing
only chords and lyrics, the Devnull trick works.
Also, if you want to have multiple stanzas of lyrics, you only have to enter
the durations once, and you can have all the stanzas easily available.
In fact, the way you did it was my first shot, just to make sure it worked.
Thanks,
Carl
On 11/26/08 1:31 PM, "Mats Bengtsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In this example, I don't see any point of using the DevNull trick to
> align the lyrics. It's just as easy to explicitly insert the durations
> directly in the lyrics, something like:
>
> \version "2.11.64"
>
> myChords = \chordmode {
> c1 g f c
> }
>
> myLyrics = \lyricmode {
> Hi2 there4 let's |
> have fun with this |
> Here we have fun |
> don't2 we
> }
>
> <<
> \new ChordNames {
> \myChords
> }
> \new Lyrics {
> \myLyrics
> }
>>>
>
>
> /Mats
> Quoting "Carl D. Sorensen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
>> On 11/26/08 12:05 AM, "Brett Duncan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>> Carl D. Sorensen wrote:
Here's one possible solution:
>>>
>>> I'm using version 2.11.63, rather than 2.11.64, and I don't get any
>>> warnings - I don't get any output either! No pdf is generated. Rather
>>> strange.
>>>
>>> Brett
>> Oops -- my copy function didn't include all of the file.
>>
>> You need to add
>>
>>
>> at the end to finish off the simultaneous (Chord Names , Devnull, Lyrics)
>> music.
>>
>> Here's a new clean copy:
>>
>> Begin cut and paste
>> \version "2.11.64"
>>
>> myChords = \chordmode {
>> c1 g f c
>> }
>>
>> myMelody = {
>> c2 c4 c4 |
>> c4 c c c |
>> c4 c c c |
>> c2 c
>> }
>>
>> myLyrics = \lyricmode {
>> Hi there let's |
>> have fun with this |
>> Here we have fun |
>> don't we
>> }
>>
>> <<
>> \new ChordNames {
>>\myChords
>> }
>> \new Devnull = "myVoice" \myMelody
>> \new Lyrics {
>> \lyricsto "myVoice" \myLyrics
>> }
>>
>> %%% End cut and paste
>>
>> Sorry for the mistake,
>>
>> Carl
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>
>
>
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Re: Just chords and lyrics.
In this example, I don't see any point of using the DevNull trick to
align the lyrics. It's just as easy to explicitly insert the durations
directly in the lyrics, something like:
\version "2.11.64"
myChords = \chordmode {
c1 g f c
}
myLyrics = \lyricmode {
Hi2 there4 let's |
have fun with this |
Here we have fun |
don't2 we
}
<<
\new ChordNames {
\myChords
}
\new Lyrics {
\myLyrics
}
/Mats
Quoting "Carl D. Sorensen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
On 11/26/08 12:05 AM, "Brett Duncan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Carl D. Sorensen wrote:
Here's one possible solution:
I'm using version 2.11.63, rather than 2.11.64, and I don't get any
warnings - I don't get any output either! No pdf is generated. Rather
strange.
Brett
Oops -- my copy function didn't include all of the file.
You need to add
at the end to finish off the simultaneous (Chord Names , Devnull, Lyrics)
music.
Here's a new clean copy:
Begin cut and paste
\version "2.11.64"
myChords = \chordmode {
c1 g f c
}
myMelody = {
c2 c4 c4 |
c4 c c c |
c4 c c c |
c2 c
}
myLyrics = \lyricmode {
Hi there let's |
have fun with this |
Here we have fun |
don't we
}
<<
\new ChordNames {
\myChords
}
\new Devnull = "myVoice" \myMelody
\new Lyrics {
\lyricsto "myVoice" \myLyrics
}
%%% End cut and paste
Sorry for the mistake,
Carl
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Re: Just chords and lyrics.
On 11/26/08 12:05 AM, "Brett Duncan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Carl D. Sorensen wrote:
>> Here's one possible solution:
>>
>
> I'm using version 2.11.63, rather than 2.11.64, and I don't get any
> warnings - I don't get any output either! No pdf is generated. Rather
> strange.
>
> Brett
Oops -- my copy function didn't include all of the file.
You need to add
>>
at the end to finish off the simultaneous (Chord Names , Devnull, Lyrics)
music.
Here's a new clean copy:
Begin cut and paste
\version "2.11.64"
myChords = \chordmode {
c1 g f c
}
myMelody = {
c2 c4 c4 |
c4 c c c |
c4 c c c |
c2 c
}
myLyrics = \lyricmode {
Hi there let's |
have fun with this |
Here we have fun |
don't we
}
<<
\new ChordNames {
\myChords
}
\new Devnull = "myVoice" \myMelody
\new Lyrics {
\lyricsto "myVoice" \myLyrics
}
>>
%%% End cut and paste
Sorry for the mistake,
Carl
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Re: Just chords and lyrics.
See http://www.nabble.com/Creating-a-nice-formatted-Chords-%2B-Lyrics-layout-for-guitar-players-to13829430.html#a13829430 for a working example. Keith Weintraub-3 wrote: > > Folks, > Anyone have an example (forgive me if I missed it in the docs) of just > chords > and lyrics? > > I don't want to worry about the notes and just want to put word phrases > more-or-less aligned with the correct measures. > > Thanks for your help, > KW > > > > > ___ > lilypond-user mailing list > lilypond-user@gnu.org > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user > > -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Just-chords-and-lyrics.-tp20685839p20696586.html Sent from the Gnu - Lilypond - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Just chords and lyrics.
Carl D. Sorensen wrote:
Here's one possible solution:
\version "2.11.64"
myChords = \chordmode {
c1 g f c
}
myMelody = {
c2 c4 c4 |
c4 c c c |
c4 c c c |
c2 c
}
myLyrics = \lyricmode {
Hi there let's |
have fun with this |
Here we have fun |
don't we
}
<<
\new ChordNames {
\myChords
}
% \new Devnull {
%\new Voice = "myVoice"
\new Devnull = "myVoice" \myMelody
% }
\new Lyrics {
\lyricsto "myVoice" \myLyrics
}
End of snippet.
This will generate lots of warnings, but it gives chords aligned with
syllables.
I'm using version 2.11.63, rather than 2.11.64, and I don't get any
warnings - I don't get any output either! No pdf is generated. Rather
strange.
Brett
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Just chords and lyrics.
Here's one possible solution:
\version "2.11.64"
myChords = \chordmode {
c1 g f c
}
myMelody = {
c2 c4 c4 |
c4 c c c |
c4 c c c |
c2 c
}
myLyrics = \lyricmode {
Hi there let's |
have fun with this |
Here we have fun |
don't we
}
<<
\new ChordNames {
\myChords
}
% \new Devnull {
%\new Voice = "myVoice"
\new Devnull = "myVoice" \myMelody
% }
\new Lyrics {
\lyricsto "myVoice" \myLyrics
}
>>
End of snippet.
This will generate lots of warnings, but it gives chords aligned with
syllables.
One reason for wanting to use it might be the possibility of transposing
easily in LilyPond.
HTH,
Carl Sorensen
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RE: Just chords and lyrics.
> > You do not need a music score typesetting system to do this, just use> > a > > word processor or a spreadsheet. > Yes, but if you have a piece of music > > that you want to extract different > parts out of, and one of those is a > > chord-and-lyrics chart for a > guitarist who can't tell tell the difference > > between music notation and > squashed ants, it would be nice to have a > > simple way of getting LP to > generate this.This is a good point - not > > everyone wants to use LP to create very complex pieces, and when dealing > > with music and musicians in a more "pop" vein you run into the folks that > > can play well well but have no clue about standard notation. I like the "squashed ants" comment...what gets me more irritated are those who can read music a little but refuse to in the pop music situation because they think they'll look "uncool". My guitarist partner is a little like that and is sometimes bothered that I want a stand with at least the words to the 150 or so tunes we can play in front of me. I keep telling him that the best musicians in the world play with music in front of them...why shouldn't I? _ Windows Live Hotmail now works up to 70% faster. http://windowslive.com/Explore/Hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_faster_112008___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Just chords and lyrics.
Francisco Vila wrote: 2008/11/25 Keith Weintraub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Folks, Anyone have an example (forgive me if I missed it in the docs) of just chords and lyrics? I don't want to worry about the notes and just want to put word phrases more-or-less aligned with the correct measures. You do not need a music score typesetting system to do this, just use a word processor or a spreadsheet. Yes, but if you have a piece of music that you want to extract different parts out of, and one of those is a chord-and-lyrics chart for a guitarist who can't tell tell the difference between music notation and squashed ants, it would be nice to have a simple way of getting LP to generate this. Brett ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Just chords and lyrics.
On 25.11.2008 (20:56), Johan Vromans wrote: > Try http://chordii.sourceforge.net . Hey, that looks nice! Another approach, for which I'm partly but indirectly responsible, is Seal (http://www.math.tu-dresden.de/~kuettler/seal/), which doesn't have much to do with the original request, but which may be of interest on a general level. It's a ruby program which takes the html files from a specific chord site by yours truly (http://dylanchords.info) as input and outputs a typographically and practically well-designed pdf file with LaTeX as the middle ground. It is not generally applicable, though, since it uses the site-specific css classes. Eyolf -- To make an enemy, do someone a favor. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Just chords and lyrics.
Keith Weintraub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Anyone have an example (forgive me if I missed it in the docs) of > just chords and lyrics? Try http://chordii.sourceforge.net . -- Johan ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Just chords and lyrics.
2008/11/25 Keith Weintraub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Folks, > Anyone have an example (forgive me if I missed it in the docs) of just chords > and lyrics? > > I don't want to worry about the notes and just want to put word phrases > more-or-less aligned with the correct measures. You do not need a music score typesetting system to do this, just use a word processor or a spreadsheet. What exactly do you think LP could be useful for? -- Francisco Vila. Badajoz (Spain) http://www.paconet.org ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Just chords and lyrics.
Folks, Anyone have an example (forgive me if I missed it in the docs) of just chords and lyrics? I don't want to worry about the notes and just want to put word phrases more-or-less aligned with the correct measures. Thanks for your help, KW ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
