Re: Leadsheet - trying to fill page without leaving empty space

[Michael Hendry]

> On 10 Jun 2019, at 17:50, Aaron Hill  wrote:
> 
> On 2019-06-10 9:12 am, Michael Hendry wrote:
>> I can usually get a reasonable result by tweaking global-staff-size,
>> but here’s an example of the bottom of a page with
>> [ . . . ]
>> Am I tweaking the wrong parameter?
>> Is there a more elegant way of ensuring that a leadsheet fits in one page?
> 
> 
> \paper { page-count = #1 }
> 

That didn’t work in the particular file I was working on - a second page was 
started.

> 
> Whether LilyPond will be happy about that is another thing entirely.
> 
> Setting and/or adjusting the global staff size is unlikely to be the correct 
> thing since that scales everything.  What you probably want is tighter 
> spacing rather than physically smaller elements.  This falls to using the 
> flexible vertical spacing features of LilyPond:
> 
> 
> \paper {
>  system-system-spacing = #'(
>(basic-distance . 15)
>(minimum-distance . 10)
>(padding . 1)
>(stretchability . 2))
> 
>  ragged-bottom = ##f
>  last-bottom-spacing = #'(
>(basic-distance . 0)
>(minimum-distance . 0)
>(padding . 0)
>(stretchability . 1))
> }
> 

These did the trick, exactly as you wrote them, thanks.

I added the ragged-last-bottom suggested by Simon, and that improved the look 
further.

I’ll obviously have to experiment with all of these to get the best result.

Thank you!

Michael

> 
> (NOTE: The values above are just examples, nothing magical nor implying best 
> practice.)
> 
> One could probably write a dissertation on LilyPond's vertical spacing 
> algorithm and the resulting head-scratching.  Here is a quick breakdown:
> 
> basic-distance is what LilyPond will try to honor absent of other 
> constraints.  Specifying a smaller value for minimum-distance will give 
> LilyPond permission to compress the spacing.  padding lets you specify that 
> the "ink" between two systems must be separated by a suitable amount.  
> Finally, stretchability is a unitless number that controls where LilyPond is 
> permitted to *add* space such as when ragged-bottom is false.
> 
> It should be noted that annotate-spacing is a useful tool to determine where 
> space is allocated.  The whitespace you see between the last system and the 
> footer might not be useable space, as far as LilyPond is concerned.  If it 
> has been instructed to keep a minimum amount of space, that is probably why 
> it opted to overflow to a second page.
> 
> 
> -- Aaron Hill
> 
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Re: Leadsheet - trying to fill page without leaving empty space

[Michael Hendry]

> On 10 Jun 2019, at 17:37, Simon Albrecht  wrote:
> 
> On 10.06.19 18:12, Michael Hendry wrote:
>> Is there a more elegant way of ensuring that a leadsheet fits in one page?
> 
> 
> Of course there is – try using the paper variables page-count, system-count 
> and for multi-page scores systems-per-page. Sometimes it takes all three of 
> them, sometimes only parts.

Thanks, I’ll investigate all of these.

> I assume you have ragged-last-bottom = ##f already?

I hadn’t, and that removes the unnecessary space at the bottom.

Michael


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Re: Leadsheet - trying to fill page without leaving empty space

[Aaron Hill]

On 2019-06-10 9:12 am, Michael Hendry wrote:

I can usually get a reasonable result by tweaking global-staff-size,
but here’s an example of the bottom of a page with

[ . . . ]

Am I tweaking the wrong parameter?

Is there a more elegant way of ensuring that a leadsheet fits in one 
page?



\paper { page-count = #1 }


Whether LilyPond will be happy about that is another thing entirely.

Setting and/or adjusting the global staff size is unlikely to be the 
correct thing since that scales everything.  What you probably want is 
tighter spacing rather than physically smaller elements.  This falls to 
using the flexible vertical spacing features of LilyPond:



\paper {
  system-system-spacing = #'(
(basic-distance . 15)
(minimum-distance . 10)
(padding . 1)
(stretchability . 2))

  ragged-bottom = ##f
  last-bottom-spacing = #'(
(basic-distance . 0)
(minimum-distance . 0)
(padding . 0)
(stretchability . 1))
}


(NOTE: The values above are just examples, nothing magical nor implying 
best practice.)


One could probably write a dissertation on LilyPond's vertical spacing 
algorithm and the resulting head-scratching.  Here is a quick breakdown:


basic-distance is what LilyPond will try to honor absent of other 
constraints.  Specifying a smaller value for minimum-distance will give 
LilyPond permission to compress the spacing.  padding lets you specify 
that the "ink" between two systems must be separated by a suitable 
amount.  Finally, stretchability is a unitless number that controls 
where LilyPond is permitted to *add* space such as when ragged-bottom is 
false.


It should be noted that annotate-spacing is a useful tool to determine 
where space is allocated.  The whitespace you see between the last 
system and the footer might not be useable space, as far as LilyPond is 
concerned.  If it has been instructed to keep a minimum amount of space, 
that is probably why it opted to overflow to a second page.



-- Aaron Hill

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Re: Leadsheet - trying to fill page without leaving empty space

[Simon Albrecht]

On 10.06.19 18:12, Michael Hendry wrote:

Is there a more elegant way of ensuring that a leadsheet fits in one page?



Of course there is – try using the paper variables page-count, 
system-count and for multi-page scores systems-per-page. Sometimes it 
takes all three of them, sometimes only parts. I assume you have 
ragged-last-bottom = ##f already?


Best, Simon


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Leadsheet - trying to fill page without leaving empty space

[Michael Hendry]

Oh Wise Ones,

I use Lilypond to produce jazz leadsheets for concert, Bb and Eb instruments, 
and find I often have to tweak parts to get them to fit on to a single A4 page.

Alto sax parts tend to need a bit more compression because they tend to have 
more ledger lines at the top of the staff.

I can usually get a reasonable result by tweaking global-staff-size, but here’s 
an example of the bottom of a page with 

#(set-global-staff-size 14.75)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/l1c8rggolebqox0/Screenshot%202019-06-10%2016.52.02.png?dl=0

and here’s the same song with

#(set-global-staff-size 14.76)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/q5vcp4ktf4wgb7m/Screenshot%202019-06-10%2016.52.48.png?dl=0

Although there’s a substantial gap between the last bar of the former and the 
footer, the latter forces the last three bars to a second page.

Am I tweaking the wrong parameter?

Is there a more elegant way of ensuring that a leadsheet fits in one page?

Regards,

Michael
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Re: Moving just text, leaving articulations in place?

[Karlin High]

On 4/19/2018 3:34 PM, David Kastrup wrote:

Correct me if I am wrong: I don't use Gmail.


Attached PNG has an annotated screenshot from the Gmail web interface.
--
Karlin High
Missouri, USA
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Re: Moving just text, leaving articulations in place?

[Robert Hickman]

> Correct me if I am wrong: I don't use Gmail.

Gmail completely hides previous messages by default, you have to
manually show them, which is not standard use or google would not hide
it.

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Re: Moving just text, leaving articulations in place?

[David Kastrup]

Robert Hickman  writes:

>> Also, the LilyPond mailing list rules frown on top-posting.  Please
>> use inline quoting instead.
>
> That is how gmail works by default,

If you mean that it leaves you with the cursor at the start of the fully
quoted material: sure, how else would it prepare you for inline quoting?

It would still appear to be a user choice to just type a reply there and
hit send without doing any editing.

Correct me if I am wrong: I don't use Gmail.

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: Moving just text, leaving articulations in place?

[Robert Hickman]

> As described in the Learning Manual, which has been suggested that you read, 
> \once applies to everything happening at that musical moment; \tweak applies 
> to only the object containing the \tweak.
>
> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/learning/tweaking-methods
>
> You really *should* take the time to read carefully through the Learning 
> Manual, rather than just trying to figure things out by looking at examples.  
> It will save you time in both the short and the long run.
>

I have read the learning manual but was not clear on that issue.


> Also, the LilyPond mailing list rules frown on top-posting.  Please use 
> inline quoting instead.

That is how gmail works by default, and I was not aware of that rule.

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Re: Moving just text, leaving articulations in place?

[Carl Sorensen]

On 4/19/18, 3:52 AM, "Robert Hickman"  wrote:

Thanks, as far as I can see lilyponds modification system is based on
a stack based state machine, \override permanently changes that state
while \tweak only changes it once. Where would you use \tweak vs \once
as they appear to do the same thing?

As described in the Learning Manual, which has been suggested that you read, 
\once applies to everything happening at that musical moment; \tweak applies to 
only the object containing the \tweak.

http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/learning/tweaking-methods

You really *should* take the time to read carefully through the Learning 
Manual, rather than just trying to figure things out by looking at examples.  
It will save you time in both the short and the long run.

Also, the LilyPond mailing list rules frown on top-posting.  Please use inline 
quoting instead.

Thanks,

Carl


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Re: Moving just text, leaving articulations in place?

[David Kastrup]

Robert Hickman  writes:

> Thanks, as far as I can see lilyponds modification system is based on
> a stack based state machine, \override permanently changes that state
> while \tweak only changes it once. Where would you use \tweak vs \once
> as they appear to do the same thing?





-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: Moving just text, leaving articulations in place?

[Robert Hickman]

Thanks, as far as I can see lilyponds modification system is based on
a stack based state machine, \override permanently changes that state
while \tweak only changes it once. Where would you use \tweak vs \once
as they appear to do the same thing?

On 19 April 2018 at 07:55, Mark Knoop  wrote:
> At 17:38 on 18 Apr 2018, Robert Hickman wrote:
>>Tried using "\override TextScript.staff-padding" to move the text
>>annotations in the attached image up but it also moves the Larson
>>articulation symbols up as well. I want these to stay in the same
>>place and the text to move up a bit away from them. Is lilypond
>>treating the articulation symbols as text?
>>
>>\header {tagline = ""}
>>
>>{
>>\override TextScript.staff-padding = #5
>>\numericTimeSignature
>>\time 3/8
>>
>>g'4.\cut^\markup {\tiny Cut } |  g'4.\strike^\markup {\tiny
>> Strike } |
>>}
>
> Use \tweak instead of \override, viz:
>
> {
> \numericTimeSignature
> \time 3/8
>
> g'4.\cut -\tweak staff-padding #5 ^\markup {\tiny Cut } |
> g'4.\strike -\tweak staff-padding #5 ^\markup {\tiny Strike } |
> }
>
> --
> Mark Knoop
>
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Re: Moving just text, leaving articulations in place?

[Mark Knoop]

At 17:38 on 18 Apr 2018, Robert Hickman wrote:
>Tried using "\override TextScript.staff-padding" to move the text
>annotations in the attached image up but it also moves the Larson
>articulation symbols up as well. I want these to stay in the same
>place and the text to move up a bit away from them. Is lilypond
>treating the articulation symbols as text?
>
>\header {tagline = ""}
>
>{
>\override TextScript.staff-padding = #5
>\numericTimeSignature
>\time 3/8
>
>g'4.\cut^\markup {\tiny Cut } |  g'4.\strike^\markup {\tiny
> Strike } |
>}

Use \tweak instead of \override, viz:

{
\numericTimeSignature
\time 3/8

g'4.\cut -\tweak staff-padding #5 ^\markup {\tiny Cut } |  
g'4.\strike -\tweak staff-padding #5 ^\markup {\tiny Strike } |
}

-- 
Mark Knoop

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Re: Moving just text, leaving articulations in place?

[Andrew Bernard]

Hi Robert and Simon,

I posted a code example here of how to recast the Larsen library as
articulations, not markup. You can take it from there and convert the whole
lot the same way.

Andrew


On 19 April 2018 at 08:25, Simon Albrecht  wrote:

> On 18.04.2018 18:38, Robert Hickman wrote:
>
>> Tried using "\override TextScript.staff-padding" to move the text
>> annotations in the attached image up but it also moves the Larson
>> articulation symbols up as well. I want these to stay in the same
>> place and the text to move up a bit away from them. Is lilypond
>> treating the articulation symbols as text?
>>
>
> Yes, it does, because that’s how they are implemented. ^\markup ""
> generates a TextScript grob.
> Sorry I can’t help with how to generate proper custom articulations (that
> generate Script grobs) right now – surely somebody else will be able to
> chime in.
>
>
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Re: Moving just text, leaving articulations in place?

[Robert Hickman]

Is it possible to create a local context around just the text to move
them up individually and 'fake it'? I only need these secondary
annotations in this example so it woulden't be a problem overall.

I don't want to resort to hand editing the image if I can at all avoid
it. For instance if screen DPI increases and I need to re render the
images. They are automatically converted by my CMS, so I'd only need
to change the dpi and purge the cache. Anything changed manually would
need to be re done manually and would probably be forgotten about. I
am not using SVG due to a font sizing inconsistency I've noted before
and can't be bothered to look into.

On 18 April 2018 at 23:25, Simon Albrecht  wrote:
> On 18.04.2018 18:38, Robert Hickman wrote:
>>
>> Tried using "\override TextScript.staff-padding" to move the text
>> annotations in the attached image up but it also moves the Larson
>> articulation symbols up as well. I want these to stay in the same
>> place and the text to move up a bit away from them. Is lilypond
>> treating the articulation symbols as text?
>
>
> Yes, it does, because that’s how they are implemented. ^\markup "" generates
> a TextScript grob.
> Sorry I can’t help with how to generate proper custom articulations (that
> generate Script grobs) right now – surely somebody else will be able to
> chime in.
>
> Best, Simon

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Re: Moving just text, leaving articulations in place?

[Simon Albrecht]

On 18.04.2018 18:38, Robert Hickman wrote:

Tried using "\override TextScript.staff-padding" to move the text
annotations in the attached image up but it also moves the Larson
articulation symbols up as well. I want these to stay in the same
place and the text to move up a bit away from them. Is lilypond
treating the articulation symbols as text?


Yes, it does, because that’s how they are implemented. ^\markup "" 
generates a TextScript grob.
Sorry I can’t help with how to generate proper custom articulations 
(that generate Script grobs) right now – surely somebody else will be 
able to chime in.


Best, Simon

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Moving just text, leaving articulations in place?

[Robert Hickman]

Tried using "\override TextScript.staff-padding" to move the text
annotations in the attached image up but it also moves the Larson
articulation symbols up as well. I want these to stay in the same
place and the text to move up a bit away from them. Is lilypond
treating the articulation symbols as text?

Complete below, my code is at the bottom:

\version "2.18.2"

% Copyright © 2014, Bret Pimentel. http://bretpimentel.com


% HOW TO USE

  % 1. Put this file in the same folder as the .ly file you are
working on, or, even better, somewhere in your Lilypond include path.
  % 2. Add the following line near the top of your .ly file, under the
"version" line (do not include the percent sign):
  %  \include "larsen-symbols.ily"
  % 3. Add symbols to notes using this syntax (no percent sign):
  %  c\crann
  % The following symbols are available:
  %cut
  %strike
  %slideUp
  %slideDown
  %longRoll
  %shortRoll
  %longDoubleCutRoll
  %shortDoubleCutRoll
  %crann
  %shortCrann
  %trill
  %singleTrill
  %shake
  %breathe
  % ("trill" and "breathe" are already built into Lilypond, but are
listed here because they form part of Mr. Larsen's system of symbols.)
  % For a thorough introduction to Mr. Larsen's excellent
ornamentation system, buy this book (affiliate link):
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0786649429/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8=1789=390957=0786649429=as2=bretpimewood-20=DQYNUO6ZFISH6REA


% OPTIONS -- ADJUST AS DESIRED

  larsenSymbolsScale = #1.5
% Adjust this to scale all symbols up or down (default #1.5).
Known issue: adjusting this affects the spacing of the components of
the long and short double-cut roll symbols.

  larsenSymbolsOutlineWidth = #.065
% Adjust this to change outline thicknesses for all symbols.

% DON'T CHANGE ANYTHING BELOW HERE UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING


% SOME VARIABLES
  larsenSymbolsHalignFactor = #(+ (* larsenSymbolsScale ( / 2 3 ) )
.15 ) % this is an arbitrary number discovered by trial and error; it
helps keep the symbols roughly aligned with noteheads if the symbols
are resized using \larsenSymbolsScale
  larsenSymbolsHalfSize = #(* .5 larsenSymbolsScale)
  larsenSymbolsFlipVertical = #(* -1 larsenSymbolsScale)

% SYMBOL: CUT

  cutCoordinates =   #'(
(.4 .9)
(.55 .825)
  )

  cutStencil =
\markup \halign #(/ -3 larsenSymbolsHalignFactor) \stencil
#(make-connected-path-stencil
  cutCoordinates
  larsenSymbolsOutlineWidth
  larsenSymbolsScale
  larsenSymbolsScale
  #t
  #t
)

  cut = ^\cutStencil

  tinyCutStencil = % The "tiny cut" is used as a component of some of
the more complex symbols
\markup \stencil
#(make-connected-path-stencil
  cutCoordinates
  larsenSymbolsOutlineWidth
  larsenSymbolsHalfSize
  larsenSymbolsHalfSize
  #t
  #t
)

  tinyCut = \tinyCutStencil

  tinyCuts =
\markup
  \halign #(/ -6.25 larsenSymbolsHalignFactor) \raise #(/ .35
larsenSymbolsHalignFactor)
  \combine
\tinyCut
\halign #(/ .25 larsenSymbolsHalignFactor) \raise #(/ .2
larsenSymbolsHalignFactor) \tinyCut

% SYMBOL: STRIKE

  strikeStencil = \markup \halign #(/ -1.75 larsenSymbolsHalignFactor) \stencil
#(make-connected-path-stencil
  '(
(.234 .831)
(.156 .831)
(-.012 .317)
(-.156 .831)
(-.293 .831)
   )
  larsenSymbolsOutlineWidth
  larsenSymbolsScale
  larsenSymbolsScale
  #t
  #t
)

  strike = ^\strikeStencil

%-
\header {tagline = ""}

{
\override TextScript.staff-padding = #5
\numericTimeSignature
\time 3/8

g'4.\cut^\markup {\tiny Cut } |  g'4.\strike^\markup {\tiny Strike } |
}
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Re: Leaving: I can't help

[Arvid Grøtting]

Kieren MacMillan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 Hi Graham,
 
 Okay, the guilt and peer pressure has finally overwhelmed my better
 judgement!  ;-)

Ooo-kay; me too.

Between work, two small kids and a choir I can't promise to deliver by
any set deadline, but I can probably re-read and revise some text and
examples.  I don't know how to play any instrument, but I do sing and
I've typeset around 100 choral pieces so far.

I'm not a native english speaker, but I've never let that stop me.

Oh, and I personally find the existing Lilypond documentation very
good, at least compared to other documentation out there.

 Send me (or point me to), one at a time, the section(s) you want me
 to review/rewrite.
 I'll do what I can, and when I'm done a section, point me to the next.

That sounds like it could work for me, too.

Cheers,

-- Arvid



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Re: Leaving: I can't help

[Graham Percival]

On 09 Jan 2008 17:02:33 +0100
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Arvid Gr__tting) wrote:

 Kieren MacMillan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 
  Send me (or point me to), one at a time, the section(s) you want me
  to review/rewrite.
  I'll do what I can, and when I'm done a section, point me to the
  next.
 
 That sounds like it could work for me, too.

Great, have a look at NR 1.1 Pitches, then.  No .texinfo required;
just read the docs (HTML or PDF is fine) and send emails with
comments.  The more specific the better.

(I want everybody to start off with Pitches; after that, we'll branch
out more)

Cheers,
- Graham


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Re: Leaving: I can't help

[Valentin Villenave]

2008/1/6, Eyolf Østrem [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 Ehem... unless with currently you mean at this very moment, we do have
 one, although too pressed for time at this very moment (lasting until the
 middle of the month) to be as active as desirable. But *zero*? No.

(S! You're ruining Graham's rhetorical effect!)

:-)

Valentin


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Re: Leaving: I can't help

[Kieren MacMillan]

Hi Graham,

Okay, the guilt and peer pressure has finally overwhelmed my better  
judgement!  ;-)



If I had an advanced lilypond user offer to help, I wouldn't ask
them to work on the texinfo files directly (unless they
particularly wanted to).  I just want somebody who can review the
material in detail, answer questions from other helpers, etc.
Maybe create a few small lilypond examples to replace (or add to)
existing examples.


I'm in.
Send me (or point me to), one at a time, the section(s) you want me  
to review/rewrite.

I'll do what I can, and when I'm done a section, point me to the next.

Cheers,
Kieren.


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Re: Leaving: I can't help

[Graham Percival]

On Sun, 6 Jan 2008 15:19:13 +0100
Valentin Villenave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 2008/1/6, Eyolf __strem [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 
  Ehem... unless with currently you mean at this very moment, we
  do have one, although too pressed for time at this very moment
  (lasting until the middle of the month) to be as active as
  desirable. But *zero*? No.
 
 (S! You're ruining Graham's rhetorical effect!)

Exactly.  :)

It's been about a month since an update from you.  I know your
book is due at the end of Jan, and this of course takes priority.
I'm not complaining about you.

However, this is still a problem for me.  I have formatters
working on sections which have never been touched by a rewriter.
My intent was to have this work like a production line in a
factory:
1) Rewriters fix the content (such as lilypond examples, adding
  rough text, etc).
2) Formatters polish the presentation of the content (fix the
  English writing, fix indentation in lilypond examples, add
  links, etc)
3) advertise section of the docs on -user, get comments about what
  work still needs to be done.  Go back to step 1 and repeat until
  we have no more commments.

If step 1 isn't being done, it's a problem.


Besides, did you _really_ want to be the only person working on
the content?  It would be much, much better if we had a couple of
different people working on this, so you could all check each
other's work.

Cheers,
- Graham


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Re: Leaving: I can't help

[Eyolf Østrem]

On 06.01.2008 (12:52), Graham Percival wrote:

 It's been about a month since an update from you.

Ten days, to be exact :)

 Besides, did you _really_ want to be the only person working on
 the content?

Of course not! I just reacted to the zero part. 

eyolf

-- 
Who dat who say who dat when I say who dat?
-- Hattie McDaniel


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Re: Leaving: I can't help

[Graham Percival]

On Sun, 6 Jan 2008 22:08:26 +0100
Eyolf __strem [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On 06.01.2008 (12:52), Graham Percival wrote:
 
  It's been about a month since an update from you.
 
 Ten days, to be exact :)

... since an updated .itely file since you?  (to be honest, I was
guessing.  As soon as I've committed a patch / merged a file, I
forget all about it)

  Besides, did you _really_ want to be the only person working on
  the content?
 
 Of course not! I just reacted to the zero part. 

Again, rhetoric.  Hey, it finally guilt-tripped Kieren into
offering to help.  Don't argue with results.  :)

Cheers,
- Graham


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Re: Leaving: I can't help

[Graham Percival]

On Wed, 2 Jan 2008 09:50:01 -0500
Kieren MacMillan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I'm a professional composer.
 I use Lilypond (nearly) every day.
 I don't actively (i.e., visibly) contribute to Lilypond code or  
 documentation... and may not in the near future, despite attempts to  
 guilt me into doing so.  ;-)

You know my instant hostile reaction to anybody making demands of
lilypond volunteers.  And I am quite aware that I'm being
hypocritical in trying to guilt advanced users into contributing
to the docs.

So it is with the greatest of reluctance that I continue such
attempts.


We currently have *zero* active helpers in GDP who are working on
the contents of the docs.  The presentation is coming along
nicely.  We have people fixing the English grammar, rearranging
the material so that things are easier to find, etc.  But the
actual contents?  Nope.

I've had questions from GDP helpers about various parts of the
docs, and my reply has almost always been I don't know, try
experimenting or asking on the mailist.  Sometimes they do so,
and sometimes they get an answer.  Sometimes they don't, so we
need to guess.  On some occasions, I've ended up saying well, I
don't know whether it's foo or bar.  Let's just stick foo in the
docs, and if it's wrong, somebody will complain about it.

Making wild guesses and hoping for future complaints is not the
ideal way to write docs.  It sucks for users who encounter these
problems in the future.  It sucks for doc writers, because they
feel stupid and useless.  It sucks for me, because I feel that I'm
letting down the volunteers I'm supposed to be supporting.


Concrete example?  Well, there's falls and doits in Expressive
marks.  I have no clue what these are.  Something for jazz
singers?  Saxophonists?  Maybe they're used in Baroque notation?
Or a special mark for accordion players?
Is the current doc section acceptable?  I have no clue.  Judging
from the picture and the input, \bendAfter does *something*.  But
I don't know what it's doing, nor what else the doc should say
here.  Maybe people who use \bendAfter would also want a link to
the ancient notation articulations?  Or the vocal aligning
syllabels ?  I have no clue.

In a few months, if GDP is still progressing, we'll be tackling NR
2 specific notation.  These problems will be even worse then.  I
honestly think that I've /never/ seen any classical guitar sheet
music.  How am I supposed to supervise work on this section?  I
can check submissions for accordance to the doc policy, but I
certainly can't judge the *contents* of those docs.

Now what about the poor GDP helper who gets assigned work on
Guitar music?  I don't think that any of the current helpers play
guitar, so they'll have the same problems that I face.

(nothing personal against guitars... I know virtually nothing
about everything else in NR 2, including vocal music)



Many of the volunteers begin their emails saying I know almost
nothing about music notation, but I'm willing to help if you think
I can without embarassing myself.  I am completely baffled about
all these volunteers -- I mean, I'm incredibly happy about
them, but baffled nevertheless.  Why do so many people want to
help after reading nothing more than the lilypond tutorial?  And
conversely, why is it that nobody who actually *is* familiar with
music notation and lilypond volunteers?

If I had an advanced lilypond user offer to help, I wouldn't ask
them to work on the texinfo files directly (unless they
particularly wanted to).  I just want somebody who can review the
material in detail, answer questions from other helpers, etc.
Maybe create a few small lilypond examples to replace (or add to)
existing examples.

- Graham


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Re: Leaving

[Eyolf Østrem]

On 01.01.2008 (02:52), Graham Percival wrote:
 With the end of 2007, I am announcing my intention to leave
 LilyPond.

Many thanks for all your hard work. Much appreciated.
So who's now going to say can't be done? :)

Eyolf



-- 
Linux: the operating system with a CLUE... Command Line User Environment.
-- seen in a posting in comp.software.testing


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Graham leaving

[Palmer, Ralph]

I am going to miss Graham, too. The effort he has put into LilyPond has
been substantial and the results have been both extensive and excellent.
Thank you, Graham.

I'm currently doing some work on the documents, and will continue to do
so. It's possible I may be able to shift my emphasis (duties?), if
that's desirable or necessary, but I don't want to increase the amount
of time I'm spending on it - I'm already unable to do other projects I
was working on prior to working on the GDP.

Again, I'm grateful for all your efforts and your encouragement, Graham.

Sincerely,

Ralph

+
Ralph Palmer, CEM
Energy/Administrative Coordinator
Keene State College
Keene, NH 03435-2502
Phone: 603-358-2230
Cell: 603-209-2903
Fax: 603-358-2456
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: Leaving: I can't help

[Kieren MacMillan]

Hi Graham,

Firstly, I wanted to add my voice to the chorus of Thanks! for all  
the work you've done -- Lilypond will miss you.  =)


But secondly, I wanted to comment on the following:


I'm spend all my time writing music, so I don't have time!
--
This is my favorite excuse for not getting involved... and by
favorite, I mean makes me grind my teeth.  If you're a
professional composer and use lilypond every day, then IMO you
should be the _most_ involved, not the least.  I mean, if the
heaviest users don't contribute to the project, then who else should?


I'm not saying there *aren't* people out there -- including working  
composers -- who could help more than they do.
Nor am I arguing the fact that many people get more out of Lilypond  
-- and the work of people like you and the coding team -- than they  
put in.


However, I *DO* object to the generalized implication that  
professional composers who use Lilypond every day should be the  
_most_ [visibly] involved [in documentation and coding efforts] or  
else they're not getting involved.


I'm a professional composer.
I use Lilypond (nearly) every day.
I don't actively (i.e., visibly) contribute to Lilypond code or  
documentation... and may not in the near future, despite attempts to  
guilt me into doing so.  ;-)


Does that mean I'm not getting involved and don't contribute to  
the project?


1. I do more Lilypond advertising (i.e., providing positive  
exposure) than anyone else I know. I am constantly putting *REAL*  
Lilypond scores in front of *REAL* working musicians and composers/ 
arrangers. On those rare occasions when I don't get unsolicited  
comments about the quality of the output, I make a point of telling  
anyone who will listen -- and many who won't -- about the benefits of  
Lilypond. The colophon of every published score explicitly mentions  
Lilypond and points to the website. Once I get my own website up and  
running (sometime this month), it will also have Lilypond kudos and  
links.


2. As a result of my being one of the heaviest users of Lilypond, I  
am constantly running into REAL-WORLD engraving problems, the kind  
that rarely come up in an ivory-tower (i.e., code and docs)  
situation. Not only does that mean I help push Lilypond to be a  
better program (by finding bugs and feature-holes), but it means that  
when another user in the 'Pond runs into similar issues, there's a  
good chance that I've got a solution or workaround to offer. And --  
as you probably are aware -- I constantly monitor the list, and  
contribute said solutions and workarounds when I can.


And finally,

3. I have personally put forward my own hard-earned dollars (well...  
Euros) to sponsor features that make Lilypond better. I continue to  
post sponsorship offers, though, for the record, nobody has taken me  
up on those offers recently. Ironically, I will soon have paid more  
*ACTUAL MONEY* for my use of the free, open-source Lilypond than I  
ever did for the proprietary, commercial Finale with all its annual  
upgrade fees!


So... if I make you grind your teeth, all I can say is 4 out of 5  
dentists recommend Trident.  =)


Best regards,
Kieren.


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Leaving

[Graham Percival]

With the end of 2007, I am announcing my intention to leave
LilyPond.

I began using LilyPond in the summer of 2001.  For the next three
years, I wrote a lot of music, and gave a tiny amount of help for
the project.  Then I finished my first degree and moved to a
different university.  I also became the Documentation Editor,
since nobody else was willing to do it.

For the next three and a half years and almost three thousand
hours, I gave a huge amount of help to the project, but only wrote
a tiny amount of music.  Two pieces, to be exact: both chamber
music, and both under five pages in full score.  Music composition
is no longer a part of my life; I'm now a grad student in
computers science.  I'm still connected to music: I'm working on
Computer-Assisted Musical Instrument Tutoring programs,
particularly focusing on violin.  (if anybody's curious about this
area, I could send them some of my conference publications.)

I remain committed to open-source projects -- more than ever,
since I am now a capable programmer.  But I think I've done enough
for LilyPond: as some users have noted, we have one of the
best-organized docs of any project.  Now I would like to
contribute to other projects, and begin sharing my *own*
open-source projects.


I am not abruptly leaving, though.  That would be unfair to
whoever replaced me: I have a lot of experience with the lilypond
docs and project management.  I will therefore remain in the
project for the next few months.  This is _solely_ so that I can
mentor my replacement(s), please see the email Leaving:
replacements.  Don't treat my staying for another X months an
excuse to remain inactive until then; please begin helping *now*,
so that I can teach you how to do these tasks efficiently.

Cheers,
- Graham Percival, LilyPond Documentation Editor and Bug Meister.



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Leaving: replacements

[Graham Percival]

An previously announced, am I gradually leaving LilyPond.  This
leaves a large number of tasks unfilled.

Please seriously consider helping lilypond.  If one person
attempts to do everything in this list, they will quickly get
burned out.  Some of these tasks might seem trivial, but spreading
the load would help a *lot*.  In addition, freeing up these
trivial tasks lets the more technically advanced volunteers work
on... well, more technically advanced problems.  :)

Some jobs naturally go with other jobs in this list, but they can
all be done independently.  My greatest wish is we get enough
volunteers such that these jobs _will_ be done independently: that
will severely limit the amount of burn-out.


Times are given in hours per week, and the estimates are generally
slightly exaggerated -- in other words, if it says 2 hours per
week, it should normally take you less than that.


EASY  (no technical/unix skills, low lilypond knowledge required)

- lilypond-user secretary (0.5 hours**): we need to somebody to
  read the user mailist and direct inquiries to the appropriate
  place.  In other words, whenever somebody says this should be
  in the docs, you send them a link to
http://lilypond.org/web/devel/participating/documentation-adding
  Whenever somebody says is this a bug, you send them
http://lilypond.org/web/devel/participating/bugs
  Whenever there's a nice example, tell them to submit it to LSR.

  The ** indicates that it's 30 minutes if you normally read
  lilypond-user.  I don't (well, I don't want to), so this
  suddenly balloons to over 5 hours a week.  This is easily the
  second-worst job I had, but _definitely_ the easiest for
  somebody else to do.

%  currently done by Valentin
- LSR adder (0.5 hours): when there's a nice example on
  lilypond-user, add it to LSR.

% three volunteers so far: 
%Garrett Fitzgerald
%Stan Sanderson
%Alexander Deubelbeiss
% it's great that we have so many interest in this, but it
% might be good if one or two of you took other jobs
- Regression test checker (0.5 hours): I never actually did this
  job, but I should have been.  Whenever a new version of lilypond
  is released, look at the regression tests to see if anything
  broke.  There's even an automatic system that highlights
  differences between versions.


MEDIUM  (no technical/unix skills, moderate lilypond knowledge)

- lilypond-bug secretary (3 hours): if a bug report is minimal,
  add it to the google tracker.  If it isn't minimal, either
  create a minimal example, or ask the submitter to do a better
  job.  If you reject any non-minimal submissions, it's 1 hour per
  week.  If you're a nice guy and create minimal examples
  yourself, it's 5 hours.  I try to be somewhere in the middle.

- Bug Meister (0.5 hours): when a bug is marked fixed and that
  release is available, test the fixed bugs and mark them
  verified.  Occasionally goes throught the list of bugs, checking
  if they still exist, if any comments were lost, etc.
  Ideally the same person as the lilypond-bug secretary, but it
  could be somebody else instead.

% Valentin
- LSR editor (1 hour): review new submissions (or corrections for
  existing submissions) for LSR and approve them.  (the time is
  for the ongoing maintenance of LSR, not the initial setup.  :)


HARD  (knowledge of git, how to build the docs)

% John
- LSR-GIT (0.25 hours): download the LSR tarball, run the
  buildscripts/makelsr.py script, then carefully review the
  changes to make sure that there's no nasty unsafe scheme.  (once
  per month is fine)

- Documentation Writer (1 hour): write new documentation for new
  features (or old features that were never documented).
  (time for ongoing maintenance, not for GDP)

- Documentation Editor (1 hour): when there's a submission to
  lilypond-devel (*not* lilypond-user) for new docs, add them.  If
  there's a bug discussion that requires noting the bug in the
  docs, do it.  Review the new docs written by others (for
  spelling, grammar, general English, how they fit into the docs
  as a whole, etc).  Occasionally rewrite old docs if they can be
  significantly improved.
  (time for ongoing maintenance, not for GDP)


Cheers,
- Graham



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Leaving: I can't help

[Graham Percival]

Some users may have read the emails Leaving: replacements and
and thought gee, I wish I could help, but ``I don't know
enough''.  I would like to debunk this myth.


I don't know enough, either!


Neither did I when I began.  I was a music composition student,
with no experience with unix development tools.  No previous
experience writing documentation.  I'd never used LilyPond to do
anything other than string music -- no piano, no vocal music --
and only simply chamber music parts -- no cues, no polymetric
stuff, no \overrides.

These days, you don't need to know any unix development tools to
help with the lilypond docs.  And you don't need to know
everything about LilyPond to be helpful.  In fact, some tasks
require *NO* lilypond knowledge _at all_.  (ie lilypond-user
secretary)

And you know what?  After three years of being the doc editor, I
_still_ don't know how to do piano music, vocal music, or cues.
I've learned how to do \overrides, though.

I would like to emphasize this.  IF I HAD TO WRITE VOCAL MUSIC, I
WOULD NEED TO READ THE **TUTORIAL**!  I don't even know how to use
\lyricAdd, which is the easiest way to do vocal music!  And I
don't think that anybody would claim that I haven't been useful to
the project.

So trust me: if you're willing to help, we can find something
that's within your abilities.


I'm spend all my time writing music, so I don't have time!
--

This is my favorite excuse for not getting involved... and by
favorite, I mean makes me grind my teeth.  If you're a
professional composer and use lilypond every day, then IMO you
should be the _most_ involved, not the least.  I mean, if the
heaviest users don't contribute to the project, then who else
should?

Cheers,
- Graham



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RE: Leaving

[Trevor Daniels]

Graham

I'm sure everyone on this list will wish to express their
appreciation for everything you have done for the LilyPond
project and the many users of LilyPond.  To say we shall
miss you is the biggest understatement of the year!  If
every user was willing to contribute just 1% of the effort
you have put in, the project would be transformed.

May I just add that in writing part of the documentation
is great for learning how LilyPond operates!  I have learnt
more from doing this than from any amount of transcribing
music.  I am certainly willing to continue to contribute
to the docs in this way, although at a less intense level
than before.

I know you're not disconnecting right away, but good luck
with your new projects.

Trevor D


 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:lilypond-user-bounces+t.daniels=treda.co.u
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
 Graham Percival
 Sent: 01 January 2008 10:52
 To: lily-devel
 Cc: lilypond-user Mailinglist
 Subject: Leaving


 With the end of 2007, I am announcing my
 intention to leave
 LilyPond.

 I began using LilyPond in the summer of 2001.
 For the next three
 years, I wrote a lot of music, and gave a tiny
 amount of help for
 the project.  Then I finished my first degree and
 moved to a
 different university.  I also became the
 Documentation Editor,
 since nobody else was willing to do it.

 For the next three and a half years and almost
 three thousand
 hours, I gave a huge amount of help to the
 project, but only wrote
 a tiny amount of music.  Two pieces, to be exact:
 both chamber
 music, and both under five pages in full score.
 Music composition
 is no longer a part of my life; I'm now a grad student in
 computers science.  I'm still connected to music:
 I'm working on
 Computer-Assisted Musical Instrument Tutoring programs,
 particularly focusing on violin.  (if anybody's
 curious about this
 area, I could send them some of my conference
 publications.)

 I remain committed to open-source projects --
 more than ever,
 since I am now a capable programmer.  But I think
 I've done enough
 for LilyPond: as some users have noted, we have one of the
 best-organized docs of any project.  Now I would like to
 contribute to other projects, and begin sharing my *own*
 open-source projects.


 I am not abruptly leaving, though.  That would be
 unfair to
 whoever replaced me: I have a lot of experience
 with the lilypond
 docs and project management.  I will therefore
 remain in the
 project for the next few months.  This is
 _solely_ so that I can
 mentor my replacement(s), please see the email Leaving:
 replacements.  Don't treat my staying for
 another X months an
 excuse to remain inactive until then; please
 begin helping *now*,
 so that I can teach you how to do these tasks efficiently.

 Cheers,
 - Graham Percival, LilyPond Documentation Editor
 and Bug Meister.



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Re: Leaving

[Deacon Geoffrey Horton]

My thanks also. One of the great flaws of most Open Source projects is
a manual that's helpful only to the people who originally wrote the
program. You deserve a lot of thanks for all your work in making sure
that's not the case for LilyPond.


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Re: Leaving: replacements

[Paul Scott]

Graham Percival wrote:

An previously announced, am I gradually leaving LilyPond.  This
leaves a large number of tasks unfilled.ate lilypond knowledge)
  
I would consider the job of Documentation Editor.  Does it require 
building on multiple platforms?  I have a GNU/Linux x86 box capable of 
doing the builds and a Mac G3 and possible access to an XP box.


Paul Scott

- Documentation Editor (1 hour): when there's a submission to
  lilypond-devel (*not* lilypond-user) for new docs, add them.  If
  there's a bug discussion that requires noting the bug in the
  docs, do it.  Review the new docs written by others (for
  spelling, grammar, general English, how they fit into the docs
  as a whole, etc).  Occasionally rewrite old docs if they can be
  significantly improved.
  (time for ongoing maintenance, not for GDP)


Cheers,
- Graham
  




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Re: Leaving: replacements

[Han-Wen Nienhuys]

2008/1/1, Paul Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 Graham Percival wrote:
  An previously announced, am I gradually leaving LilyPond.  This
  leaves a large number of tasks unfilled.ate lilypond knowledge)
 
 I would consider the job of Documentation Editor.  Does it require
 building on multiple platforms?  I have a GNU/Linux x86 box capable of
 doing the builds and a Mac G3 and possible access to an XP box.

That would you also make you a candidate for testing all the different
binary builds. :-)

-- 
Han-Wen Nienhuys - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanwen


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Re: Leaving: replacements

[Graham Percival]

On Tue, 01 Jan 2008 12:48:35 -0700
Paul Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Graham Percival wrote:
  An previously announced, am I gradually leaving LilyPond.  This
  leaves a large number of tasks unfilled.ate lilypond knowledge)

 I would consider the job of Documentation Editor.  Does it require 
 building on multiple platforms?  I have a GNU/Linux x86 box capable
 of doing the builds and a Mac G3 and possible access to an XP box.

No, you don't need to build on multiple platforms... although as
Han-Wen mentioned, there are vacant jobs that require such a
setup.

To clarify one possible misunderstanding, the Documentation Editor
is a editor-in-chief position, overseeing all the documentation
work.  There are some people editing the documentation as part of
GDP, but that's different from this position.  The DE needs to be
able to handle git, patches, diffs, building the docs, and fixing
broken doc-builds.

For the moment, I suggest getting involved in GDP.
http://web.uvic.ca/~gperciva/

If you want to jump into the technical side of things, see
advanced-tech.txt (or perhaps you have already done this).  To
get an introduction to the non-technical side of the job, I
recommend editing one of the unclaimed sections of NR1.  (see
current.txt)  Text has not been touched yet, while Pitches
is almost perfect.  Are you familiar with texinfo?

Cheers,
- Graham


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Re: Leaving: replacements

[Paul Scott]

Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote:

2008/1/1, Paul Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
  

Graham Percival wrote:


An previously announced, am I gradually leaving LilyPond.  This
leaves a large number of tasks unfilled.ate lilypond knowledge)

  

I would consider the job of Documentation Editor.  Does it require
building on multiple platforms?  I have a GNU/Linux x86 box capable of
doing the builds and a Mac G3 and possible access to an XP box.



That would you also make you a candidate for testing all the different
binary builds. :-)
  
Testing or building and testing.  The other machines are not fast enough 
to do reasonable builds.


Paul




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