Re: Making slurs more visible
On 11 Aug 2018, at 10:33, David Kastrup wrote: > "Galen Menzel" writes: > >> On 11 Aug 2018, at 1:23, Torsten Hämmerle wrote: >>> >>> This is just to explain how the penalty system works for finding the >>> optimum >>> solution among several possibilities, but of course the best way is >>> to say >>> "I definitely do not want ties shorter than min-length!" is simply >>> setting >>> Tie.details.min-length. >> >> Hi Thorsten — thanks for this excellent explanation! It definitely >> makes things clearer. To avoid unintended consequences of futzing I’ve >> ended up just briefly adjusting the ties as follows: >> >> \override Tie.details.min-length=#3 >> g4. g8~g g~g g >> \revert Tie.details.min-length >> >> Thanks for all the help! > > I'd recommend using \temporary \override here since then the \revert > will restore any preexisting value. That makes such a passage work > better as a "black box" for copy and/or in music functions. Great tip — thank you! Galen ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Making slurs more visible
"Galen Menzel" writes: > On 11 Aug 2018, at 1:23, Torsten Hämmerle wrote: >> >> This is just to explain how the penalty system works for finding the >> optimum >> solution among several possibilities, but of course the best way is >> to say >> "I definitely do not want ties shorter than min-length!" is simply >> setting >> Tie.details.min-length. > > Hi Thorsten — thanks for this excellent explanation! It definitely > makes things clearer. To avoid unintended consequences of futzing I’ve > ended up just briefly adjusting the ties as follows: > > \override Tie.details.min-length=#3 > g4. g8~g g~g g > \revert Tie.details.min-length > > Thanks for all the help! I'd recommend using \temporary \override here since then the \revert will restore any preexisting value. That makes such a passage work better as a "black box" for copy and/or in music functions. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Making slurs more visible
On 11 Aug 2018, at 1:23, Torsten Hämmerle wrote: This is just to explain how the penalty system works for finding the optimum solution among several possibilities, but of course the best way is to say "I definitely do not want ties shorter than min-length!" is simply setting Tie.details.min-length. Hi Thorsten — thanks for this excellent explanation! It definitely makes things clearer. To avoid unintended consequences of futzing I’ve ended up just briefly adjusting the ties as follows: \override Tie.details.min-length=#3 g4. g8~g g~g g \revert Tie.details.min-length Thanks for all the help! Best, Galen___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Making slurs more visible
On 11 Aug 2018, at 0:26, Malte Meyn wrote: I would not notate the left hand rhythm as 4. 8~ 8 8~ 8 8 but as 4. 8~ 8 4 8 That’s easier to read for the player. Thanks for pointing this out! You’re totally right — I’m not sure why I thought tied eighth notes would be appropriate here. Galen ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Making slurs more visible
Galen Menzel wrote > Just so I understand, it seems that Tie.details.min-length cannot > influence note spacing. What does it influence other than this specific > case that I am asking about here? Hi Galen, By the way: I also stumbled over the fact that min-length is not listed among the details default values shown in the internals documentation. How come? This is because it is not there initially and therefore is not listed as a default value. In these cases, a hard coded value will be used instead (in this case, it's #1, but you'll have to look into the coding). The full overview of available properties can be found in the tie-interface documentation as described by David (N). *What does min-length actually do?* I really does not influence note spacing, this is only about the choosing the "best" of several possible tie configurations. Just a few examples: There is a relationship between height and length of a tie, it may go in between stave lines or not, in between noteheads or not etc. Lilypond plays around with several possible solutions, adds up penalty values and finally picks the solution with the lowest number of penalty points, i.e. the optimal solution. Taking this into account, there is /yet another way/ for avoiding these tiny ties: just increase the penalty value for min-length ties, thus making them very unattractive: \override Tie.details.min-length-penalty-factor = #1000 (default: 26) This will make all tie configurations with very short (min-length) ties very unattractive and LilyPond will favour any other solution. You may look at all the *_penalty values in the details list to get an idea. When LilyPond has to decide between "knit or chair", it will pick the one that does the least harm (sorry, Thomas). This is just to explain how the penalty system works for finding the optimum solution among several possibilities, but of course the best way is to say "I definitely do not want ties shorter than min-length!" is simply setting Tie.details.min-length. HTH, Torsten -- Sent from: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/User-f3.html ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Making slurs more visible
Am 10.08.2018 um 21:42 schrieb Galen Menzel: Hi all, I have a score in which the following measure renders nicely when only the piano line is given: However, when the vocal line is also given, the slurs above the bass-clef g eighth notes become very hard to see: Presumably the vocal line alters the spacing of the bass-clef notes, putting enough space between them that lilypond decides to use smaller ties that fit between the note heads, rather than larger ties that span the tops of the note heads. But in this case I find the smaller ties look worse. Is there a simple way to direct lilypond to use the larger ties here? Slightly off-topic but maybe helpful: I would not notate the left hand rhythm as 4. 8~ 8 8~ 8 8 but as 4. 8~ 8 4 8 That’s easier to read for the player. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Making slurs more visible
On 10 Aug 2018, at 16:08, David Nalesnik wrote: On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 6:05 PM Galen Menzel wrote: However, I’m a bit baffled as to how I could have found this setting. The tie internals page doesn’t list min-length as one of the members of tie’s details alist. Where is this setting documented? Thanks again! Galen You need to click on the various interface links at the bottom of the page to see all of the properties theoretically supported. Clicking on "tie-interface" takes you to http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/internals/tie_002dinterface where the property is listed. Ah, gotcha — thanks! Just so I understand, it seems that Tie.details.min-length cannot influence note spacing. What does it influence other than this specific case that I am asking about here? Thanks again, Galen ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Making slurs more visible
On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 6:05 PM Galen Menzel wrote: > However, I’m a bit baffled as to how I could have found this setting. The tie > internals page doesn’t list min-length as one of the members of tie’s details > alist. > > Where is this setting documented? > > Thanks again! > > Galen > You need to click on the various interface links at the bottom of the page to see all of the properties theoretically supported. Clicking on "tie-interface" takes you to http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/internals/tie_002dinterface where the property is listed. Best, David ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Making slurs more visible
On 10 Aug 2018, at 13:50, Torsten Hämmerle wrote: Galen Menzel wrote Is there a simple way to direct lilypond to use the larger ties here? Hi Galen, Yes, there are several ways: The most obvíous way is to use \override Tie.minimum-length = #... But this also affects the spacing of notes. If I get you correctly, you'd rather like to keep the spacing (without lyrics, it's even tighter), but you don't want the ties to become too short when slipping in between the noteheads. This can be achieved by playing around with one of the details properties: \override Tie.details.min-length = #... A sufficiently large value of details.min-length will prevent a tie from being squeezed into a too narrow gap between noteheads. Thanks, Torsten — this second approach is just what I need. However, I’m a bit baffled as to how I could have found this setting. The [tie internals page](http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/internals/tie) doesn’t list min-length as one of the members of tie’s `details` alist. Where is this setting documented? Thanks again! Galen___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Making slurs more visible
Galen Menzel wrote > Is there a simple way to direct lilypond to use the larger > ties here? Hi Galen, Yes, there are several ways: The most obvíous way is to use \override Tie.minimum-length = #... But this also affects the spacing of notes. If I get you correctly, you'd rather like to keep the spacing (without lyrics, it's even tighter), but you don't want the ties to become too short when slipping in between the noteheads. This can be achieved by playing around with one of the details properties: \override Tie.details.min-length = #... A sufficiently large value of details.min-length will prevent a tie from being squeezed into a too narrow gap between noteheads. HTH, Torsten -- Sent from: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/User-f3.html ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Making slurs more visible
Hi all, I have a score in which the following measure renders nicely when only the piano line is given:  However, when the vocal line is also given, the slurs above the bass-clef g eighth notes become very hard to see:  Presumably the vocal line alters the spacing of the bass-clef notes, putting enough space between them that lilypond decides to use smaller ties that fit between the note heads, rather than larger ties that span the tops of the note heads. But in this case I find the smaller ties look worse. Is there a simple way to direct lilypond to use the larger ties here? Thanks! Galen___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
