Re: Partial Bars

[Simon Albrecht]

Thanks, Pierre.
Will, what’s more, it’s more semantically correct to set measurePosition 
instead of measureLength (if you’d rather not change to 2.19.x and have 
it done automatically :-) ).


Yours, Simon

Am 03.07.2015 um 16:10 schrieb Pierre Perol-Schneider:

Hi Bill,

2015-07-03 14:57 GMT+02:00 William Marchant >:


...
Note that there is a new bar number for every bar.
...


This is your choice.
I wouldn't do that. I'd consider this minuet's structure as 4x8 
measures = 32 measures and I fully agree with Simon's remark about the 
bar numbering.

See attached file.
Cheers,
Pierre



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Re: Partial Bars

[Pierre Perol-Schneider]

Hi Bill,

2015-07-03 14:57 GMT+02:00 William Marchant :

> ...
> Note that there is a new bar number for every bar.
> ...
>

This is your choice.
I wouldn't do that. I'd consider this minuet's structure as 4x8 measures =
32 measures and I fully agree with Simon's remark about the bar numbering.
See attached file.
Cheers,
Pierre


billMinuetRepeats5.ly
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Re: Partial Bars

[William Marchant]

Hi All,
My recent question about Partial Bars in the middle of a "piece" has 
stirred up a slew of other problems and questions.  Here is an example 
of the solution I used with Beethoven's Menuet in G  thanks to Stephen 
MacNeil.


Version 2.18.2
 %Last bar of Part A which is in 3/4 time

8( ) ( ) ( ) | %Bar 7
  \set Score.measureLength = #(ly:make-moment 2/4)
  d4 r4 } %Bar 8

   % PART B
  \repeat volta 2 {
  \set Score.measureLength = #(ly:make-moment 2/8)
  d'8( g\mf) |% Bar 9
  \set Score.measureLength = #(ly:make-moment 3/4)
  4(   | %Bar 10
% etc etc
}

Note that there is a new bar number for every bar.

Learning new stuff every day!
Hope this helps
Bill

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Re: Partial Bars

[Pierre Perol-Schneider]

Hi Simon,

2015-07-03 10:53 GMT+02:00 Simon Albrecht :
...

> – As Lily correctly handles it, both alternatives always start at the same
> bar number (at least in this convention counting repeats only once). Thus,
> the close of the minuet would have bar 16a for the first, 16b for the
> second alternative and (16b) for the partial measure opening the trio. (The
> other convention to which I’m alluding would have 24, 32, and (32)
> respectively, but that isn’t yet supported by Lily.)
>

+1
...

> – And a small, unrelated remark: the upbeat for the Trio should read r8
> r4, not the other way round :-)
>

Of course ;)

Cheers,
Pierre
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Re: Partial Bars

[Simon Albrecht]

Am 03.07.2015 um 11:01 schrieb David Kastrup:

Well, we are likely talking past each other.  I was explicitly talking
about LilyPond's behavior in the 2.19 series (I may have forgotten
adjusting the version header in the examples I posted, though).

I see – that settles the matter.
Best, Simon

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Re: Partial Bars

[David Kastrup]

Simon Albrecht  writes:

> Very good example. However, I have two major points to make here:
> – As Lily correctly handles it, both alternatives always start at the
> same bar number (at least in this convention counting repeats only
> once). Thus, the close of the minuet would have bar 16a for the first,
> 16b for the second alternative and (16b) for the partial measure
> opening the trio. (The other convention to which I’m alluding would
> have 24, 32, and (32) respectively, but that isn’t yet supported by
> Lily.)
> – The second alternatives closing both Minuet and Trio need a \set
> Timing.measurePosition = #(ly:make-moment 0) at the beginning. With
> your ~2.ly score, I get two failing bar checks. This workaround is
> documented AFAIK.
> – And a small, unrelated remark: the upbeat for the Trio should read
> r8 r4, not the other way round :-)
>
> Correct version attached.

[...]

> \version "2.18.2"

> \set Timing.measurePosition = #(ly:make-moment 0)

[...]

Well, we are likely talking past each other.  I was explicitly talking
about LilyPond's behavior in the 2.19 series (I may have forgotten
adjusting the version header in the examples I posted, though).  You
don't need to mess with Timing.measurePosition then, \partial works in
mid-piece, and LilyPond knows to let each alternative start at the same
measurePosition, regardless of where the last alternative ended.

As developer, I naturally lean towards promoting the stuff we managed to
fix rather than dwelling on how to work around the deficiencies in the
current stable version.

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: Partial Bars

[Simon Albrecht]

Very good example. However, I have two major points to make here:
– As Lily correctly handles it, both alternatives always start at the 
same bar number (at least in this convention counting repeats only 
once). Thus, the close of the minuet would have bar 16a for the first, 
16b for the second alternative and (16b) for the partial measure opening 
the trio. (The other convention to which I’m alluding would have 24, 32, 
and (32) respectively, but that isn’t yet supported by Lily.)
– The second alternatives closing both Minuet and Trio need a \set 
Timing.measurePosition = #(ly:make-moment 0) at the beginning. With your 
~2.ly score, I get two failing bar checks. This workaround is documented 
AFAIK.
– And a small, unrelated remark: the upbeat for the Trio should read r8 
r4, not the other way round :-)


Correct version attached.
Yours, Simon

Am 03.07.2015 um 09:06 schrieb David Kastrup:

Pierre Perol-Schneider  writes:


Oops! here again.

Try the following example:



Your problem was that you declared partial bars at the end of each
movement to be "complete" and gave them bar checks and whole-bar rests.

That's not going to fly with LilyPond.  It _is_ actually possible to
make LilyPond treat them like that, but then you have to declare the
length of the bar at its _start_ by using \partial on it.  Here is how
to do that:



The latter version lets you use a "full-bar rest" at its end (but I
think that is a rather bad idea since the reader will have a hard time
figuring out its actual length) and will result in more measures since
then the partial bar at the start of the second movement gets its own
measure number.  I'm not convinced that is a good idea either but then
it's probably a question of what was written in the original.



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%% => http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/Partial-Bars-td178358.html
\version "2.18.2"

global = {
  \time 3/4
  \key g\major
}

menuet = {
 
  %% PART A
  \mark\default
  \repeat volta 2 {
% mes.0
  \partial 4 r4 |
% mes.1-7
  R2.*7
% mes.8a
  r2 % <= no barcheck (incomplete measure)
  }
  
  %% PART B
  \mark\default
  \repeat volta 2 {
% mes.8b
  r4 | % <= barcheck (end of measure 8)
% mes.9-15
  R2.*7
  }
  \alternative {
{
  % mes.16
r2 % <= no barcheck (incomplete measure)
\tweak direction #DOWN
\tweak self-alignment-X #RIGHT
\mark\markup\small\italic "Fine."
}
{
  % mes.17a
\set Timing.measurePosition = #(ly:make-moment 0)
r4 r8 % <= no barcheck (incomplete measure)
}
  }
  
  %% PART C
  \mark\default
  \tempo "Trio"
  \repeat volta 2 {
% mes.17b
  r8 r4 | % <= barcheck (end of measure 17)
% mes.18-24
  R2.*7
% mes.25a
  r2 % <= no barcheck (incomplete measure)  
  }
  
  %% PART D
  \mark\default
  \repeat volta 2 {
% mes.25b
  r4 | % <= barcheck (end of measure 25)
% mes.26-32
  R2.*7
  }
  \alternative {
{
  % mes.33
r4 r8 % <= no barcheck (incomplete measure 33)
}
{
  % mes.34
  \set Timing.measurePosition = #(ly:make-moment 0)
r2  % <= no barcheck (incomplete measure 34)
}
  }
  %% D.C.
  \tweak direction #DOWN
  \tweak self-alignment-X #RIGHT
  \mark\markup\small\italic "D.C. al Fine."
  \bar "|."
}


\header {
  title = "Six Minuets"
  composer = "Ludwig van Beethoven"
  opus = "WoO 10"
  piece = "Menuet No.2"
}

\score {
  \new PianoStaff <<
\new Staff = "RH" { \clef G \global \menuet }
\new Staff = "LH" { \clef F \global \menuet }
  >>
  \layout {
system-count = 5
  }
}
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Re: Partial Bars

[Pierre Perol-Schneider]

Thank you for explanation David.
Cheers,
Pierre

2015-07-03 9:06 GMT+02:00 David Kastrup :

> Pierre Perol-Schneider  writes:
>
> > Oops! here again.
>
> Try the following example:
>
>
>
> Your problem was that you declared partial bars at the end of each
> movement to be "complete" and gave them bar checks and whole-bar rests.
>
> That's not going to fly with LilyPond.  It _is_ actually possible to
> make LilyPond treat them like that, but then you have to declare the
> length of the bar at its _start_ by using \partial on it.  Here is how
> to do that:
>
>
>
> The latter version lets you use a "full-bar rest" at its end (but I
> think that is a rather bad idea since the reader will have a hard time
> figuring out its actual length) and will result in more measures since
> then the partial bar at the start of the second movement gets its own
> measure number.  I'm not convinced that is a good idea either but then
> it's probably a question of what was written in the original.
>
> --
> David Kastrup
>
>
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Re: Partial Bars

[David Kastrup]

Pierre Perol-Schneider  writes:

> Oops! here again.

Try the following example:

%% => http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/Partial-Bars-td178358.html
\version "2.18.2"

global = {
  \time 3/4
  \key g\major
}

menuet = {
 
  %% PART A
  \mark\default
  \repeat volta 2 {
% mes.0
  \partial 4 r4 |
% mes.1-7
  R2.*7
% mes.8a
  r2 % <= no barcheck (incomplete measure)
  }
  
  %% PART B
  \mark\default
  \repeat volta 2 {
% mes.8b
  r4 | % <= barcheck (end of measure 8)
% mes.9-15
  R2.*7
  }
  \alternative {
{
  % mes.16
r2 % <= no barcheck (incomplete measure)
\tweak direction #DOWN
\tweak self-alignment-X #RIGHT
\mark\markup\small\italic "Fine."
}
{
  % mes.17a
r4 r8 % <= no barcheck (incomplete measure)
}
  }
  
  %% PART C
  \mark\default
  \tempo "Trio"
  \repeat volta 2 {
% mes.17b
  r4 r8 | % <= barcheck (end of measure 17)
% mes.18-24
  R2.*7
% mes.25a
  r2 % <= no barcheck (incomplete measure)  
  }
  
  %% PART D
  \mark\default
  \repeat volta 2 {
% mes.25b
  r4 | % <= barcheck (end of measure 25)
% mes.26-32
  R2.*7
  }
  \alternative {
{
  % mes.33
r4 r8 % <= no barcheck (incomplete measure 33)
}
{
  % mes.34
r2  % <= no barcheck (incomplete measure 34)
}
  }
  %% D.C.
  \tweak direction #DOWN
  \tweak self-alignment-X #RIGHT
  \mark\markup\small\italic "D.C. al Fine."
  \bar "|."
}


\header {
  title = "Six Minuets"
  composer = "Ludwig van Beethoven"
  opus = "WoO 10"
  piece = "Menuet No.2"
}

\score {
  \new PianoStaff <<
\new Staff = "RH" { \clef G \global \menuet }
    \new Staff = "LH" { \clef F \global \menuet }
  >>
  \layout {
system-count = 5
  }
}

Your problem was that you declared partial bars at the end of each
movement to be "complete" and gave them bar checks and whole-bar rests.

That's not going to fly with LilyPond.  It _is_ actually possible to
make LilyPond treat them like that, but then you have to declare the
length of the bar at its _start_ by using \partial on it.  Here is how
to do that:

%% => http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/Partial-Bars-td178358.html
\version "2.18.2"

global = {
  \time 3/4
  \key g\major
}

menuet = {
 
  %% PART A
  \mark\default
  \repeat volta 2 {
% mes.0
  \partial 4 r4 |
% mes.1-7
  R2.*7
% mes.8a
  r2 % <= no barcheck (incomplete measure)
  }
  
  %% PART B
  \mark\default
  \repeat volta 2 {
% mes.8b
  r4 | % <= barcheck (end of measure 8)
% mes.9-15
  R2.*7
  }
  \alternative {
{
  % mes.16
\partial 2
r2 | % <= barcheck (complete measure 16)
\tweak direction #DOWN
\tweak self-alignment-X #RIGHT
\mark\markup\small\italic "Fine."
}
{
  % mes.17a
r4 r8 % <= no barcheck (incomplete measure)
}
  }
  
  %% PART C
  \mark\default
  \tempo "Trio"
  \repeat volta 2 {
% mes.17b
  r4 r8 | % <= barcheck (end of measure 17)
% mes.18-24
  R2.*7
% mes.25a
  r2 % <= no barcheck (incomplete measure)  
  }
  
  %% PART D
  \mark\default
  \repeat volta 2 {
% mes.25b
  r4 | % <= barcheck (end of measure 25)
% mes.26-32
  R2.*7
  }
  \alternative {
{
  % mes.33
\partial 4.
r4 r8 | % <= barcheck (complete measure 33)
}
{
  % mes.34
\partial 2
R2 | % <= barcheck (complete measure 34)
}
  }
  %% D.C.
  \tweak direction #DOWN
  \tweak self-alignment-X #RIGHT
  \mark\markup\small\italic "D.C. al Fine."
  \bar "|."
}


\header {
  title = "Six Minuets"
  composer = "Ludwig van Beethoven"
  opus = "WoO 10"
  piece = "Menuet No.2"
}

\score {
  \new PianoStaff <<
\new Staff = "RH" { \clef G \global \menuet }
\new Staff = "LH" { \clef F \global \menuet }
  >>
  \layout {
system-count = 5
  }
}

The latter version lets you use a "full-bar rest" at its end (but I
think that is a rather bad idea since the reader will have a hard time
figuring out its actual length) and will result in more measures since
then the partial bar at the start of the second movement gets its own
measure number.  I'm not convinced that is a good idea either but then
it's probably a question of what was written in the original.

-- 
David Kastrup
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Re: Partial Bars

[Pierre Perol-Schneider]

Oops! here again.

2015-07-03 8:42 GMT+02:00 David Kastrup :

> Pierre Perol-Schneider  writes:
>
> > Hi David,
> >
> > I've tried to follow your indications without success: I still get
> > warnings.  Herewith is the example.  I'd be very interseted to
> > understand what you mean, so if anyone can modify it to help me...
>
> Well...
>
> dak@lola:/usr/local/tmp/lilypond$ lilypond /dev/null
> GNU LilyPond 2.19.22
> Processing `/dev/null'
> Parsing...
> /dev/null:1: warning: no \version statement found, please add
>
> \version "2.19.22"
>
> for future compatibility
> Success: compilation successfully completed
>
> I think the first step would be to actually attach an example to your
> mail.
>
> --
> David Kastrup
>


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Re: Partial Bars

[David Kastrup]

Pierre Perol-Schneider  writes:

> Hi David,
>
> I've tried to follow your indications without success: I still get
> warnings.  Herewith is the example.  I'd be very interseted to
> understand what you mean, so if anyone can modify it to help me...

Well...

dak@lola:/usr/local/tmp/lilypond$ lilypond /dev/null
GNU LilyPond 2.19.22
Processing `/dev/null'
Parsing...
/dev/null:1: warning: no \version statement found, please add

\version "2.19.22"

for future compatibility
Success: compilation successfully completed

I think the first step would be to actually attach an example to your
mail.

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: Partial Bars

[Pierre Perol-Schneider]

Hi David,

I've tried to follow your indications without success: I still get warnings.
Herewith is the example.
I'd be very interseted to understand what you mean, so if anyone can modify
it to help me...

TIA, Cheers,
Pierre

2015-07-01 9:12 GMT+02:00 David Kastrup :

> Pierre Perol-Schneider  writes:
>
> > Hi Bill,
> >
> > here's how I'd do:
>
> [...]
>
> In this example you can just throw out anything timing-related, remove
> those bar checks which you placed after artificially shortened bars, and
> the file will compile fine as of version 2.19.1.  Making LilyPond
> understand the effects of mid-bar repeats/alternatives had been issue
> 3792.
>
> --
> David Kastrup
>
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Re: Partial Bars

[William Marchant]

Hi to all,
I have received many replies to my question.  Thank you all for the 
help.  The problem is solved.

Bill

On 15-06-30 08:56 PM, William Marchant wrote:

Hi,
I am making a copy of Beethoven's Little Menuet in G.  Each of the 
four parts begins with a partial bar.  The barcheck failure warning 
tells me that I cannot have a partial bar in the middle of a piece. I 
assume there must be a workaround for this.  Could someone point me to 
it please?

Bill

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Re: Partial Bars

[David Kastrup]

Pierre Perol-Schneider  writes:

> Hi Bill,
>
> here's how I'd do:

[...]

In this example you can just throw out anything timing-related, remove
those bar checks which you placed after artificially shortened bars, and
the file will compile fine as of version 2.19.1.  Making LilyPond
understand the effects of mid-bar repeats/alternatives had been issue
3792.

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: Partial Bars

[Pierre Perol-Schneider]

Hi Bill,

here's how I'd do:

\version "2.18.2"

global = {
  \time 3/4
  \key g\major
}

menuet = {

  %% PART A
  \repeat volta 2 {
% mes.0
  \partial 4 s4 |
% mes.1-7
  \repeat unfold 7 { s2. | }
% mes.8a
  s2 % <= no barcheck (incomplete measure)
  }

  %% PART B
  \repeat volta 2 {
% mes.8b
  s4 | % <= barcheck (end of measure 8)
% mes.9-15
  \repeat unfold 7 { s2. | }
  }
  \alternative {
{
  % mes.16
\set Timing.measureLength = #(ly:make-moment 1/2)
s2 | % <= barcheck (complete measure 16)
}
{
  % mes.17a
\set Timing.measureLength = #(ly:make-moment 3/4)
s4. % <= no barcheck (in complete measure 15)
}
  }

  %% PART C
  \tempo "Trio"
  \repeat volta 2 {
% mes.17b
  s4. | % <= barcheck (end of measure 17)
% mes.18-24
  \repeat unfold 7 { s2. | }
% mes.25a
  s2 % <= no barcheck (incomplete measure)
  }

  %% PART D
  \repeat volta 2 {
% mes.25b
  s4 | % <= barcheck (end of measure 25)
% mes.26-32
  \repeat unfold 7 { s2. | }
  }
  \alternative {
{
  % mes.33
\set Timing.measureLength = #(ly:make-moment 3/8)
s4. | % <= barcheck (complete measure 33)
}
{
  % mes.34
\set Timing.measureLength = #(ly:make-moment 1/2)
s2 |% <= barcheck (complete measure 34)
}
  }
  %% fine
  \bar "|."
}

\header {
  title = "Six Minuets"
  composer = "Ludwig van Beethoven"
  opus = "WoO 10"
  piece = "Menuet No.2"
}

\score {
  \new PianoStaff <<
\new Staff = "right hand" { \global \clef G \menuet }
\new Staff = "left hand" { \global \clef F \menuet }
  >>
  \layout {
system-count = 5
  }
}

HTH,
Pierre



2015-07-01 8:48 GMT+02:00 David Kastrup :

> Chris Yate  writes:
>
> > On 1 Jul 2015 04:56, "Helge Kruse"  wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Bill,
> >>
> >> Can you please include a minimal compilable example that shows your
> >> problem? I don't plan to do both
> >> - goto the next shop or library to get that menut
> >> - guess what 'part' expresses in the context of that piece
> >> - write an example that could probably the same problems yours have
> >>
> >> Partial measures are possible in different ways, also 'in the middle'.
> >
> > I have had this exact problem with typesetting Beethoven before.
> >
> > One solution is to temporarily change the time signature, but remove the
> > time signature engraver. I'll try to find an example later (on my phone
> > just now).
>
> The simplest solution is likely to use version 2.19.12 or later.  Some
> changes for allowing \time in connection with \partial have been
> committed in 2.19.16 as well.
>
> --
> David Kastrup
>
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Re: Partial Bars

[David Kastrup]

Chris Yate  writes:

> On 1 Jul 2015 04:56, "Helge Kruse"  wrote:
>>
>> Hi Bill,
>>
>> Can you please include a minimal compilable example that shows your
>> problem? I don't plan to do both
>> - goto the next shop or library to get that menut
>> - guess what 'part' expresses in the context of that piece
>> - write an example that could probably the same problems yours have
>>
>> Partial measures are possible in different ways, also 'in the middle'.
>
> I have had this exact problem with typesetting Beethoven before.
>
> One solution is to temporarily change the time signature, but remove the
> time signature engraver. I'll try to find an example later (on my phone
> just now).

The simplest solution is likely to use version 2.19.12 or later.  Some
changes for allowing \time in connection with \partial have been
committed in 2.19.16 as well.

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: Partial Bars

[Chris Yate]

On 1 July 2015 at 07:28, Chris Yate  wrote:

> On 1 Jul 2015 04:56, "Helge Kruse"  wrote:
> >
> > Hi Bill,
> >
> > Can you please include a minimal compilable example that shows your
> problem? I don't plan to do both
> > - goto the next shop or library to get that menut
> > - guess what 'part' expresses in the context of that piece
> > - write an example that could probably the same problems yours have
> >
> > Partial measures are possible in different ways, also 'in the middle'.
> >
> > Best regards
> > Helge
>
> Bill,
>
> I have had this exact problem with typesetting Beethoven before.
>
> One solution is to temporarily change the time signature, but remove the
> time signature engraver. I'll try to find an example later (on my phone
> just now).
>
> Chris
>
Bill,

Here's the way I actually did it...

\version "2.18.2"
\language "english"

\relative c {
  \compressFullBarRests
  \key ef \major
  \time 6/8
  \clef bass
  \tempo "Andante"
  r8 ef (g af f d)
  f (ef) g g4 (bf8)
  R2.
  \set Score.measureLength = #(ly:make-moment 2 8)
  ef8 r \bar "|." \break
  \tempo "Adagio"
  \time 4/4
  \set Score.measureLength = #(ly:make-moment 5 8)
  r8^\markup{"VAR. VI"} r2
  \set Score.measureLength = #(ly:make-moment 4 4)
  ef,,4 f g a
  c d e f \bar "|."
}
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Re: Partial Bars

[Chris Yate]

On 1 Jul 2015 04:56, "Helge Kruse"  wrote:
>
> Hi Bill,
>
> Can you please include a minimal compilable example that shows your
problem? I don't plan to do both
> - goto the next shop or library to get that menut
> - guess what 'part' expresses in the context of that piece
> - write an example that could probably the same problems yours have
>
> Partial measures are possible in different ways, also 'in the middle'.
>
> Best regards
> Helge

Bill,

I have had this exact problem with typesetting Beethoven before.

One solution is to temporarily change the time signature, but remove the
time signature engraver. I'll try to find an example later (on my phone
just now).

Chris
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Re: Partial Bars

[Helge Kruse]

Hi Bill,

Can you please include a minimal compilable example that shows your
problem? I don't plan to do both
- goto the next shop or library to get that menut
- guess what 'part' expresses in the context of that piece
- write an example that could probably the same problems yours have

Partial measures are possible in different ways, also 'in the middle'.

Best regards
Helge
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Partial Bars

[William Marchant]

Hi,
I am making a copy of Beethoven's Little Menuet in G.  Each of the four 
parts begins with a partial bar.  The barcheck failure warning tells me 
that I cannot have a partial bar in the middle of a piece. I assume 
there must be a workaround for this.  Could someone point me to it please?

Bill

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Re: Bar number inconsistency with repeats and partial bars?

[Nick Payne]

On 15/08/12 01:36, Xavier Scheuer wrote:

On 14 August 2012 13:34, Nick Payne  wrote:

In the example below, Lilypond doesn't count the initial partial bar when
numbering the bars, but the partial bars at the end of the first repeat and
beginning of the second repeat each get their own bar number. Commercial
scores I have with this repeat structure treat these two bars as though they
are one for the purposes of numbering the succeeding bars. To get the same
numbering in Lilypond I have to explicitly set the bar numbering at the
beginning of the second repeat.

I had a look in Gould but couldn't see any recommendation for how the bars
should be numbered in this situation.

Hi Nick,

If you do not change the measure length at the end of the first volta
and at the beginning of the second one you get the correct output,
AFAICS.


Thanks. That definitely seems the best solution. I was fixated on 
putting bar checks everywhere and didn't think of that.


Nick

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Re: Bar number inconsistency with repeats and partial bars?

[Xavier Scheuer]

On 14 August 2012 13:34, Nick Payne  wrote:
> In the example below, Lilypond doesn't count the initial partial bar when
> numbering the bars, but the partial bars at the end of the first repeat and
> beginning of the second repeat each get their own bar number. Commercial
> scores I have with this repeat structure treat these two bars as though they
> are one for the purposes of numbering the succeeding bars. To get the same
> numbering in Lilypond I have to explicitly set the bar numbering at the
> beginning of the second repeat.
>
> I had a look in Gould but couldn't see any recommendation for how the bars
> should be numbered in this situation.

Hi Nick,

If you do not change the measure length at the end of the first volta
and at the beginning of the second one you get the correct output,
AFAICS.

 Lily code

\version "2.15.43"

\relative c'' {
  \override Score.BarNumber #'break-visibility = #'#(#t #t #f)
  \repeat volta 2 {
\partial 4 c4 |
c c c c |
c c c
  }
  \repeat volta 2 {
c |
c c c c |
c c c c |
\set Score.measureLength = #(ly:make-moment 3 4)
c c c |
  }
}

 End of lily code

Cheers,
Xavier

-- 
Xavier Scheuer 

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Bar number inconsistency with repeats and partial bars?

[Nick Payne]

In the example below, Lilypond doesn't count the initial partial bar 
when numbering the bars, but the partial bars at the end of the first 
repeat and beginning of the second repeat each get their own bar number. 
Commercial scores I have with this repeat structure treat these two bars 
as though they are one for the purposes of numbering the succeeding 
bars. To get the same numbering in Lilypond I have to explicitly set the 
bar numbering at the beginning of the second repeat.


I had a look in Gould but couldn't see any recommendation for how the 
bars should be numbered in this situation.


\version "2.15.43"

\relative c'' {
\override Score.BarNumber #'break-visibility = #'#(#t #t #f)
\repeat volta 2 {
\partial 4 c4 |
c c c c |
\set Score.measureLength = #(ly:make-moment 3 4) c c c |
}
\repeat volta 2 {
\set Score.measureLength = #(ly:make-moment 1 4) c |
%   \set Score.currentBarNumber = #3
\set Score.measureLength = #(ly:make-moment 4 4) c c c c |
c c c c |
\set Score.measureLength = #(ly:make-moment 3 4) c c c |
}
}

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Re: MIDI export and partial bars

[Joseph Rushton Wakeling]

On 02/04/12 22:55, Nils wrote:

Midi understands time signatures:
What I did in Laborejo.org is to start with a measure which has a timesignature 
of the length of the upbeat and after that place the original timesig.


Ahh, from a playback point of view that's a nicer tweak than rests at the start 
-- but still, that midi will not import ideally into other software and will 
still have the bar-number offset.



That said I don't care about Lilyponds midi export at all. I want Lilypond to 
engrave PDFs. Midi export should be done one level higher. Needless to say this 
is exactly what Laborejo does: One sourceformat with a high enough information 
density to both generate Lilypond and Midi without any subtle information lost.


I _do_ care about Lilypond's MIDI export. ;-)  I'm happy to work around the 
issue, I'm just curious about the feasibility of a real fix to the issue I've 
described.


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Re: MIDI export and partial bars

[Nils]

On Mon, 02 Apr 2012 17:12:46 +0200
Joseph Rushton Wakeling  wrote:

> Hello all,
> 
> A query about MIDI export, which relates to a feature request I have in mind 
> but 
> would like to confirm is feasible.
> 
> Lilypond's MIDI export has problems with partial opening measures.  This 
> means 
> that import into other programs will fail to place barlines correctly, and 
> that 
> MIDI players which display bar/beat numbers will also display wrongly -- e.g. 
> in 
> the Frescobaldi MIDI player, as described here:
> https://github.com/wbsoft/frescobaldi/issues/43
> 
> There's an easy workaround, which is to define an alternative opening to the 
> music using rests instead of a \partial measure:
> http://osdir.com/ml/lilypond-user-gnu/2009-06/msg00418.html
> 
> ... but this is imperfect, as it inserts silence at the opening of the MIDI 
> file 
> and also still results in bar numbering being offset by 1.
> 
> So, the question is, is it feasible to properly encode a pickup bar in MIDI, 
> that is, to have the starting notes identified as belonging to the last notes 
> of 
> bar 0?  Will this be accepted or understood by MIDI players and other 
> software's 
> import functionality?
> 
> Thanks for any advice and comments,
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
>  -- Joe

Midi understands time signatures:
What I did in Laborejo.org is to start with a measure which has a timesignature 
of the length of the upbeat and after that place the original timesig.

That said I don't care about Lilyponds midi export at all. I want Lilypond to 
engrave PDFs. Midi export should be done one level higher. Needless to say this 
is exactly what Laborejo does: One sourceformat with a high enough information 
density to both generate Lilypond and Midi without any subtle information lost.

Nils

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MIDI export and partial bars

[Joseph Rushton Wakeling]

Hello all,

A query about MIDI export, which relates to a feature request I have in mind but 
would like to confirm is feasible.


Lilypond's MIDI export has problems with partial opening measures.  This means 
that import into other programs will fail to place barlines correctly, and that 
MIDI players which display bar/beat numbers will also display wrongly -- e.g. in 
the Frescobaldi MIDI player, as described here:

https://github.com/wbsoft/frescobaldi/issues/43

There's an easy workaround, which is to define an alternative opening to the 
music using rests instead of a \partial measure:

http://osdir.com/ml/lilypond-user-gnu/2009-06/msg00418.html

... but this is imperfect, as it inserts silence at the opening of the MIDI file 
and also still results in bar numbering being offset by 1.


So, the question is, is it feasible to properly encode a pickup bar in MIDI, 
that is, to have the starting notes identified as belonging to the last notes of 
bar 0?  Will this be accepted or understood by MIDI players and other software's 
import functionality?


Thanks for any advice and comments,

Best wishes,

-- Joe

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