Re: Problem with repeats: stray bar line

[Simon Albrecht]

Am 06.05.2015 um 01:21 schrieb Mark Stephen Mrotek:

Tobias:

My understanding, which is certainly limited, is that Lilypond reads the
first alternate ending and sees only three beats and assumes that the second
alternate starts (read not played) with the fourth beat. Again a case when a
human performer is smarter than a computer!
So we have to tell Lily that the second alternative starts on

more precisely: after

  the first of
four (that's where the 1/4 comes in) beats.

Yours, Simon

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RE: Problem with repeats: stray bar line

[Mark Stephen Mrotek]

Tobias:

My understanding, which is certainly limited, is that Lilypond reads the
first alternate ending and sees only three beats and assumes that the second
alternate starts (read not played) with the fourth beat. Again a case when a
human performer is smarter than a computer!
So we have to tell Lily that the second alternative starts on the first of
four (that's where the 1/4 comes in) beats.

Mark

-Original Message-
From: Tobias Braun [mailto:lists.tob...@braun-abstatt.de] 
Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2015 2:57 PM
To: Mark Stephen Mrotek
Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Problem with repeats: stray bar line

Yes, it does, thank you!

But the docs tell me to use measureLength in some way. Is using
measurePosition, as you suggested, just another way of doing the same thing?
Or is my situation that much different from the docs so that a different
property has to be modified?

Tobias


Am 05.05.2015 um 23:41 schrieb Mark Stephen Mrotek :

> Tobias:
> 
> Does this work?
> 
> \version "2.18.2"
> 
> \relative c' {
>   \partial 4
>   \repeat volta 2 { c4 | c c c c | c c c }
>   \repeat volta 2 { d4 | d d d d | }
>   \alternative { { e4 e e } { 
> \set Timing.measurePosition = #(ly:make-moment 1/4)
> f4 f f } } }
> 
> Mark
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: lilypond-user-bounces+carsonmark=ca.rr@gnu.org
> [mailto:lilypond-user-bounces+carsonmark=ca.rr@gnu.org] On Behalf 
> Of Tobias Braun
> Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2015 2:07 PM
> To: lilypond-user@gnu.org Group
> Subject: Problem with repeats: stray bar line
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I have a weird problem with repeats that I just can't figure out. I've 
> read the docs and tried different things for hours now, to no avail. 
> Here's my minimal example:
> 
> %%
> 
> \version "2.18.2"
> 
> \relative c' {
>   \partial 4
>   \repeat volta 2 { c4 | c c c c | c c c }
>   \repeat volta 2 { d4 | d d d d | }
>   \alternative { { e4 e e } { f4 f f \bar "|." } } }
> 
> %%
> 
> Can anyone tell me why I get that stray bar line after the first note 
> in the second group of the \alternative expression?
> 
> Thanks,
> Tobias
> 


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Re: Problem with repeats: stray bar line

[Tobias Braun]

I tried both variants. Either of them seem to produce the bar check warnings.


Am 06.05.2015 um 01:09 schrieb Simon Albrecht :

> I correct myself: 
> ,
>  at ‘Known issues and warnings’ has a remark about \unfoldRepeats (necessary 
> for MIDI output) giving wrong results if measurePosition is set in an 
> \alternative. This is probably the reason why the example uses measureLength 
> (which gives the same output, after all).
> 
> Yours, Simon
> 
> Am 06.05.2015 um 01:02 schrieb Simon Albrecht:
>> Indeed. I’ll make a bug report.
>> 
>> Yours, Simon
>> 
>> Am 06.05.2015 um 00:55 schrieb Tobias Braun:
>>> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/notation/long-repeats.html
>>> 
>>> Search for "Timing.measureLength" there.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Am 06.05.2015 um 00:52 schrieb Simon Albrecht :
>>> 
 Am 06.05.2015 um 00:46 schrieb Tobias Braun:
> So modifying measureLength, as suggested by the documentation, isn't a 
> good idea after all? Shouldn't the documentation be updated accordingly 
> then?
 In which place? Please give a link.
 ~ Simon
>> 
>> 
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Re: Problem with repeats: stray bar line

[Tobias Braun]

Btw: I'm of course getting the bar check warnings described under "Known issues 
and warnings" if I put \unfoldRepeats in my MIDI context. Not very nice at all, 
especially for such a relatively simple piece of music ...


Am 06.05.2015 um 01:02 schrieb Simon Albrecht :

> Indeed. I’ll make a bug report.
> 
> Yours, Simon
> 
> Am 06.05.2015 um 00:55 schrieb Tobias Braun:
>> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/notation/long-repeats.html
>> 
>> Search for "Timing.measureLength" there.
>> 
>> 
>> Am 06.05.2015 um 00:52 schrieb Simon Albrecht :
>> 
>>> Am 06.05.2015 um 00:46 schrieb Tobias Braun:
 So modifying measureLength, as suggested by the documentation, isn't a 
 good idea after all? Shouldn't the documentation be updated accordingly 
 then?
>>> In which place? Please give a link.
>>> ~ Simon
> 


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Re: Problem with repeats: stray bar line

[Simon Albrecht]

I correct myself: 
, 
at ‘Known issues and warnings’ has a remark about \unfoldRepeats 
(necessary for MIDI output) giving wrong results if measurePosition is 
set in an \alternative. This is probably the reason why the example uses 
measureLength (which gives the same output, after all).


Yours, Simon

Am 06.05.2015 um 01:02 schrieb Simon Albrecht:

Indeed. I’ll make a bug report.

Yours, Simon

Am 06.05.2015 um 00:55 schrieb Tobias Braun:

http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/notation/long-repeats.html

Search for "Timing.measureLength" there.


Am 06.05.2015 um 00:52 schrieb Simon Albrecht :


Am 06.05.2015 um 00:46 schrieb Tobias Braun:
So modifying measureLength, as suggested by the documentation, 
isn't a good idea after all? Shouldn't the documentation be updated 
accordingly then?

In which place? Please give a link.
~ Simon



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Re: Problem with repeats: stray bar line

[Simon Albrecht]

Indeed. I’ll make a bug report.

Yours, Simon

Am 06.05.2015 um 00:55 schrieb Tobias Braun:

http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/notation/long-repeats.html

Search for "Timing.measureLength" there.


Am 06.05.2015 um 00:52 schrieb Simon Albrecht :


Am 06.05.2015 um 00:46 schrieb Tobias Braun:

So modifying measureLength, as suggested by the documentation, isn't a good 
idea after all? Shouldn't the documentation be updated accordingly then?

In which place? Please give a link.
~ Simon



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Re: Problem with repeats: stray bar line

[Tobias Braun]

http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/notation/long-repeats.html

Search for "Timing.measureLength" there.


Am 06.05.2015 um 00:52 schrieb Simon Albrecht :

> Am 06.05.2015 um 00:46 schrieb Tobias Braun:
>> So modifying measureLength, as suggested by the documentation, isn't a good 
>> idea after all? Shouldn't the documentation be updated accordingly then?
> In which place? Please give a link.
> ~ Simon


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Re: Problem with repeats: stray bar line

[Tobias Braun]

Ok, but the "fix" tells me to alter a global browser setting, which I may not 
want to after all. It says this is required "To get automatic language 
selection". What I really want, however, is manual language selection. Isn't 
that what the language links at the bottom are for? Instead, I am getting a 
broken kind of automatic language selection at the moment. Is there no way to 
turn automatic language selection off? Or just store the user's selection in a 
cookie or something?

Also, there are no instructions for the Safari browser on OS X on that page. 
Looking around the Safari preferences window, I get the impression that there 
is no such setting in Safari at all, let alone a way to configure it per site. 
(LilyPond documentation is the only web site I ever encountered which exhibits 
this problem.)


Am 06.05.2015 um 00:24 schrieb Simon Albrecht :

> Well, in Lilypond we always try to represent the musical content 
> appropriately, and contrary to what Steven suggested, the measure length 
> doesn’t change here, only the second alternative ‘misses out one beat’ or 
> starts at another measure position. So setting measurePosition is the way to 
> go here. Although it /would/ be nice if Lily could do it right without 
> explicitly telling her – but there are quite a few things we still have to 
> teach her :-)
> 
> Concerning automatic language selection on the website: there is an 
> explanation how to fix this on the bottom of every page. I hope it will help.
> 
> Yours, Simon
> 
> Am 05.05.2015 um 23:56 schrieb Tobias Braun:
>> Yes, it does, thank you!
>> 
>> But the docs tell me to use measureLength in some way. Is using 
>> measurePosition, as you suggested, just another way of doing the same thing? 
>> Or is my situation that much different from the docs so that a different 
>> property has to be modified?
>> 
>> Tobias
>> 
>> 
>> Am 05.05.2015 um 23:41 schrieb Mark Stephen Mrotek :
>> 
>>> Tobias:
>>> 
>>> Does this work?
>>> 
>>> \version "2.18.2"
>>> 
>>> \relative c' {
>>> \partial 4
>>> \repeat volta 2 { c4 | c c c c | c c c }
>>> \repeat volta 2 { d4 | d d d d | }
>>> \alternative { { e4 e e } {
>>>   \set Timing.measurePosition = #(ly:make-moment 1/4)
>>>   f4 f f } } }
>>> 
>>> Mark
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: lilypond-user-bounces+carsonmark=ca.rr@gnu.org
>>> [mailto:lilypond-user-bounces+carsonmark=ca.rr@gnu.org] On Behalf Of
>>> Tobias Braun
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2015 2:07 PM
>>> To: lilypond-user@gnu.org Group
>>> Subject: Problem with repeats: stray bar line
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> I have a weird problem with repeats that I just can't figure out. I've read
>>> the docs and tried different things for hours now, to no avail. Here's my
>>> minimal example:
>>> 
>>> %%
>>> 
>>> \version "2.18.2"
>>> 
>>> \relative c' {
>>> \partial 4
>>> \repeat volta 2 { c4 | c c c c | c c c }
>>> \repeat volta 2 { d4 | d d d d | }
>>> \alternative { { e4 e e } { f4 f f \bar "|." } } }
>>> 
>>> %%
>>> 
>>> Can anyone tell me why I get that stray bar line after the first note in the
>>> second group of the \alternative expression?
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Tobias
>>> 
>> 
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Re: Problem with repeats: stray bar line

[Simon Albrecht]

Am 06.05.2015 um 00:46 schrieb Tobias Braun:

So modifying measureLength, as suggested by the documentation, isn't a good 
idea after all? Shouldn't the documentation be updated accordingly then?

In which place? Please give a link.
~ Simon

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Re: Problem with repeats: stray bar line

[Tobias Braun]

So modifying mesureLength, as suggested by the documentation, isn't a good idea 
after all? Shouldn't the documentation be updated accordingly then?


Am 06.05.2015 um 00:26 schrieb Simon Albrecht :

> And, an obvious point: If you modify measureLength, you’d have to modify it 
> again after the second alternative, else all following music (if there were 
> any) would go on with 3/4 time (without a printed change of TimeSignature!).
> 
> Am 05.05.2015 um 23:56 schrieb Tobias Braun:
>> Yes, it does, thank you!
>> 
>> But the docs tell me to use measureLength in some way. Is using 
>> measurePosition, as you suggested, just another way of doing the same thing? 
>> Or is my situation that much different from the docs so that a different 
>> property has to be modified?
>> 
>> Tobias
>> 
>> 
>> Am 05.05.2015 um 23:41 schrieb Mark Stephen Mrotek :
>> 
>>> Tobias:
>>> 
>>> Does this work?
>>> 
>>> \version "2.18.2"
>>> 
>>> \relative c' {
>>> \partial 4
>>> \repeat volta 2 { c4 | c c c c | c c c }
>>> \repeat volta 2 { d4 | d d d d | }
>>> \alternative { { e4 e e } {
>>>   \set Timing.measurePosition = #(ly:make-moment 1/4)
>>>   f4 f f } } }
>>> 
>>> Mark
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: lilypond-user-bounces+carsonmark=ca.rr@gnu.org
>>> [mailto:lilypond-user-bounces+carsonmark=ca.rr@gnu.org] On Behalf Of
>>> Tobias Braun
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2015 2:07 PM
>>> To: lilypond-user@gnu.org Group
>>> Subject: Problem with repeats: stray bar line
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> I have a weird problem with repeats that I just can't figure out. I've read
>>> the docs and tried different things for hours now, to no avail. Here's my
>>> minimal example:
>>> 
>>> %%
>>> 
>>> \version "2.18.2"
>>> 
>>> \relative c' {
>>> \partial 4
>>> \repeat volta 2 { c4 | c c c c | c c c }
>>> \repeat volta 2 { d4 | d d d d | }
>>> \alternative { { e4 e e } { f4 f f \bar "|." } } }
>>> 
>>> %%
>>> 
>>> Can anyone tell me why I get that stray bar line after the first note in the
>>> second group of the \alternative expression?
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Tobias
>>> 
>> 
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Re: Problem with repeats: stray bar line

[Simon Albrecht]

And, an obvious point: If you modify measureLength, you’d have to modify 
it again after the second alternative, else all following music (if 
there were any) would go on with 3/4 time (without a printed change of 
TimeSignature!).


Am 05.05.2015 um 23:56 schrieb Tobias Braun:

Yes, it does, thank you!

But the docs tell me to use measureLength in some way. Is using 
measurePosition, as you suggested, just another way of doing the same thing? Or 
is my situation that much different from the docs so that a different property 
has to be modified?

Tobias


Am 05.05.2015 um 23:41 schrieb Mark Stephen Mrotek :


Tobias:

Does this work?

\version "2.18.2"

\relative c' {
\partial 4
\repeat volta 2 { c4 | c c c c | c c c }
\repeat volta 2 { d4 | d d d d | }
\alternative { { e4 e e } {
  \set Timing.measurePosition = #(ly:make-moment 1/4)
  f4 f f } } }

Mark

-Original Message-
From: lilypond-user-bounces+carsonmark=ca.rr@gnu.org
[mailto:lilypond-user-bounces+carsonmark=ca.rr@gnu.org] On Behalf Of
Tobias Braun
Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2015 2:07 PM
To: lilypond-user@gnu.org Group
Subject: Problem with repeats: stray bar line

Hi,

I have a weird problem with repeats that I just can't figure out. I've read
the docs and tried different things for hours now, to no avail. Here's my
minimal example:

%%

\version "2.18.2"

\relative c' {
\partial 4
\repeat volta 2 { c4 | c c c c | c c c }
\repeat volta 2 { d4 | d d d d | }
\alternative { { e4 e e } { f4 f f \bar "|." } } }

%%

Can anyone tell me why I get that stray bar line after the first note in the
second group of the \alternative expression?

Thanks,
Tobias



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Re: Problem with repeats: stray bar line

[Simon Albrecht]

Well, in Lilypond we always try to represent the musical content 
appropriately, and contrary to what Steven suggested, the measure length 
doesn’t change here, only the second alternative ‘misses out one beat’ 
or starts at another measure position. So setting measurePosition is the 
way to go here. Although it /would/ be nice if Lily could do it right 
without explicitly telling her – but there are quite a few things we 
still have to teach her :-)


Concerning automatic language selection on the website: there is an 
explanation how to fix this on the bottom of every page. I hope it will 
help.


Yours, Simon

Am 05.05.2015 um 23:56 schrieb Tobias Braun:

Yes, it does, thank you!

But the docs tell me to use measureLength in some way. Is using 
measurePosition, as you suggested, just another way of doing the same thing? Or 
is my situation that much different from the docs so that a different property 
has to be modified?

Tobias


Am 05.05.2015 um 23:41 schrieb Mark Stephen Mrotek :


Tobias:

Does this work?

\version "2.18.2"

\relative c' {
\partial 4
\repeat volta 2 { c4 | c c c c | c c c }
\repeat volta 2 { d4 | d d d d | }
\alternative { { e4 e e } {
  \set Timing.measurePosition = #(ly:make-moment 1/4)
  f4 f f } } }

Mark

-Original Message-
From: lilypond-user-bounces+carsonmark=ca.rr@gnu.org
[mailto:lilypond-user-bounces+carsonmark=ca.rr@gnu.org] On Behalf Of
Tobias Braun
Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2015 2:07 PM
To: lilypond-user@gnu.org Group
Subject: Problem with repeats: stray bar line

Hi,

I have a weird problem with repeats that I just can't figure out. I've read
the docs and tried different things for hours now, to no avail. Here's my
minimal example:

%%

\version "2.18.2"

\relative c' {
\partial 4
\repeat volta 2 { c4 | c c c c | c c c }
\repeat volta 2 { d4 | d d d d | }
\alternative { { e4 e e } { f4 f f \bar "|." } } }

%%

Can anyone tell me why I get that stray bar line after the first note in the
second group of the \alternative expression?

Thanks,
Tobias



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Re: Problem with repeats: stray bar line

[Tobias Braun]

Yes, it does, thank you!

But the docs tell me to use measureLength in some way. Is using 
measurePosition, as you suggested, just another way of doing the same thing? Or 
is my situation that much different from the docs so that a different property 
has to be modified?

Tobias


Am 05.05.2015 um 23:41 schrieb Mark Stephen Mrotek :

> Tobias:
> 
> Does this work?
> 
> \version "2.18.2"
> 
> \relative c' {
>   \partial 4
>   \repeat volta 2 { c4 | c c c c | c c c }
>   \repeat volta 2 { d4 | d d d d | }
>   \alternative { { e4 e e } { 
> \set Timing.measurePosition = #(ly:make-moment 1/4)
> f4 f f } } }
> 
> Mark
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: lilypond-user-bounces+carsonmark=ca.rr@gnu.org
> [mailto:lilypond-user-bounces+carsonmark=ca.rr@gnu.org] On Behalf Of
> Tobias Braun
> Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2015 2:07 PM
> To: lilypond-user@gnu.org Group
> Subject: Problem with repeats: stray bar line
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I have a weird problem with repeats that I just can't figure out. I've read
> the docs and tried different things for hours now, to no avail. Here's my
> minimal example:
> 
> %%
> 
> \version "2.18.2"
> 
> \relative c' {
>   \partial 4
>   \repeat volta 2 { c4 | c c c c | c c c }
>   \repeat volta 2 { d4 | d d d d | }
>   \alternative { { e4 e e } { f4 f f \bar "|." } } }
> 
> %%
> 
> Can anyone tell me why I get that stray bar line after the first note in the
> second group of the \alternative expression?
> 
> Thanks,
> Tobias
> 


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RE: Problem with repeats: stray bar line

[Mark Stephen Mrotek]

Tobias:

Does this work?

\version "2.18.2"

\relative c' {
\partial 4
\repeat volta 2 { c4 | c c c c | c c c }
\repeat volta 2 { d4 | d d d d | }
\alternative { { e4 e e } { 
  \set Timing.measurePosition = #(ly:make-moment 1/4)
  f4 f f } } }

Mark

-Original Message-
From: lilypond-user-bounces+carsonmark=ca.rr@gnu.org
[mailto:lilypond-user-bounces+carsonmark=ca.rr@gnu.org] On Behalf Of
Tobias Braun
Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2015 2:07 PM
To: lilypond-user@gnu.org Group
Subject: Problem with repeats: stray bar line

Hi,

I have a weird problem with repeats that I just can't figure out. I've read
the docs and tried different things for hours now, to no avail. Here's my
minimal example:

%%

\version "2.18.2"

\relative c' {
\partial 4
\repeat volta 2 { c4 | c c c c | c c c }
\repeat volta 2 { d4 | d d d d | }
\alternative { { e4 e e } { f4 f f \bar "|." } } }

%%

Can anyone tell me why I get that stray bar line after the first note in the
second group of the \alternative expression?

Thanks,
Tobias


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Re: Problem with repeats: stray bar line

[Tobias Braun]

Hi Steven, thanks for the reply.

But I'm not really in 3/4 in those measures, am I? I mean, together with the 
partial measure at the very beginning, the alternative measures add up to 4/4 
again, right? Unfolding all the repeats should give a proper 4/4 piece where 
the partial measure at the beginning and the so-called 3/4 measure at the end 
add up to 4/4 again. So this is kind of a limitation of LilyPond's \repeat 
expression, I guess?

I suppose you were referring to the "\set Timing.measureLength" bit in the 
documentation. I've read that, but I wasn't sure if the criteria described 
there applied to my exact situation and I thus didn't understand how to 
actually apply that workaround to my minimal example.

(Btw: Is there a way to tell the documentation to stick to English without 
having to switch my whole system to English or something? I keep clicking 
"English" at the bottom of the page, but when navigating around, it will always 
revert to German (my system language) sooner or later. Very annoying when 
working with an English markup language that is LilyPond, posting to an English 
mailing list, and googling for solutions in English.)

Tobias


Am 05.05.2015 um 23:23 schrieb Steven Weber :

> Because you're in 4/4 and didn't tell Lilypond that the alternative bars
> were in 3/4.  See
> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/notation/long-repeats for
> details on how to fix this.
> 
> --Steven
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: lilypond-user-bounces+panteck=hotmail@gnu.org
> [mailto:lilypond-user-bounces+panteck=hotmail@gnu.org] On Behalf Of
> Tobias Braun
> Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2015 2:07 PM
> To: lilypond-user@gnu.org Group
> Subject: Problem with repeats: stray bar line
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I have a weird problem with repeats that I just can't figure out. I've read
> the docs and tried different things for hours now, to no avail. Here's my
> minimal example:
> 
> %%
> 
> \version "2.18.2"
> 
> \relative c' {
>   \partial 4
>   \repeat volta 2 { c4 | c c c c | c c c }
>   \repeat volta 2 { d4 | d d d d | }
>   \alternative { { e4 e e } { f4 f f \bar "|." } } }
> 
> %%
> 
> Can anyone tell me why I get that stray bar line after the first note in the
> second group of the \alternative expression?
> 
> Thanks,
> Tobias


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RE: Problem with repeats: stray bar line

[Steven Weber]

Because you're in 4/4 and didn't tell Lilypond that the alternative bars
were in 3/4.  See
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/notation/long-repeats for
details on how to fix this.

--Steven

-Original Message-
From: lilypond-user-bounces+panteck=hotmail@gnu.org
[mailto:lilypond-user-bounces+panteck=hotmail@gnu.org] On Behalf Of
Tobias Braun
Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2015 2:07 PM
To: lilypond-user@gnu.org Group
Subject: Problem with repeats: stray bar line

Hi,

I have a weird problem with repeats that I just can't figure out. I've read
the docs and tried different things for hours now, to no avail. Here's my
minimal example:

%%

\version "2.18.2"

\relative c' {
\partial 4
\repeat volta 2 { c4 | c c c c | c c c }
\repeat volta 2 { d4 | d d d d | }
\alternative { { e4 e e } { f4 f f \bar "|." } } }

%%

Can anyone tell me why I get that stray bar line after the first note in the
second group of the \alternative expression?

Thanks,
Tobias

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Problem with repeats: stray bar line

[Tobias Braun]

Hi,

I have a weird problem with repeats that I just can't figure out. I've read the 
docs and tried different things for hours now, to no avail. Here's my minimal 
example:

%%

\version "2.18.2"

\relative c' {
\partial 4
\repeat volta 2 { c4 | c c c c | c c c }
\repeat volta 2 { d4 | d d d d | }
\alternative { { e4 e e } { f4 f f \bar "|." } }
}

%%

Can anyone tell me why I get that stray bar line after the first note in the 
second group of the \alternative expression?

Thanks,
Tobias
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