Re: A small but vexing problem (fermatas in several voices)

[Michael J. O'Donnell]

In similar situations, I like to create LilyPond variables whose values 
are the notes only for each part, and a separate variable whose value is 
the expressive marks that go on all parts together, including fermatas, 
dynamic markings, ...


Then, I can create a full score with the expressive marks presented only 
once, and individual parts with the expressive marks.


Annoyance: the expressive part needs skips of the durations 
corresponding to the notes in between the expressive marks. Someday, I 
hope that LilyPond will have the facility to mark temporal points in 
various parts so that they can be aligned without counting out the beats 
correctly in each one. This would be structurally analogous to the use 
of TABs in a single line of typed material, but it would not be 
associated with lines of music, rather with entire scores.


Cheers,

Mike O'D.

On 12/30/2010 02:41 PM, Michael Ellis wrote:

From: Michael Ellis
Subject: A small but vexing problem
To: LilyPond User Group
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I think I mentioned in a prior post that I'm creating LilyPond versions of
400 Bach chorales with moveable do solfege beneath the notes.  I've now got
workable versions for the chorales with all parts together and hope to have
them up on a website soon with pdf and midi files available also.  I'd also
like to include individual part versions of the file, so a user can see and
hear a single part.  The one stumbling block I'm hitting is the fermatas at
phrase ends.  The source I'm using for the notes in each parts has the
fermatas only in the soprano line.

Does anyone have a clever idea for automating the process of creating
corresponding fermatas for the other parts?

Thanks,
Mike


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Re: A small but vexing problem (fermatas in several voices)

[Michael Ellis]

Hi Michael,
That's a good idea and I'd do exactly that if I were transcribing the
chorales by hand.  Fortunately, Margaret Greentree (jsbchorales.net)
has already done the hard work of entering all the notes for 404
chorales, but she did it in Finale, so I'm starting from LilyPond
converted from her exported MusicXML.

I think I've now got a solution for the final argument to \quoteDuring
using music-map (adapted from "notes-to-skip" example in LilyPond
regression tests.


#(define (replace-with-spacers m)
  "Converts all stuff with duration (notes, lyrics, bass figures,
etc.) to spacer rests. Scripts and dynamics are maintained.
"
  (if (memq 'rhythmic-event (ly:music-property m 'types))
  (let* ((newmus (make-music 'SpacingSectionEvent)))
(map
(lambda (x) (ly:music-set-property! newmus (car x) (cdr x)))
(ly:music-mutable-properties m))
newmus
  )
   m)
)

quoteduration = {
\applyMusic #(lambda (x) (music-map replace-with-spacers x))
\ASvoiceAA
}

AAquoteBA = {
\set Score.quotedEventTypes = #'(articulation-event)
<<
{\quoteDuring #"articulations" { \quoteduration } }
\AAvoiceBA

>>
}
--

I'm totally open to a less messy solution :-)

Cheers,
Mike



On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 4:44 PM, Michael J. O'Donnell
 wrote:
> In similar situations, I like to create LilyPond variables whose values are
> the notes only for each part, and a separate variable whose value is the
> expressive marks that go on all parts together, including fermatas, dynamic
> markings, ...
>
> Then, I can create a full score with the expressive marks presented only
> once, and individual parts with the expressive marks.
>
> Annoyance: the expressive part needs skips of the durations corresponding to
> the notes in between the expressive marks. Someday, I hope that LilyPond
> will have the facility to mark temporal points in various parts so that they
> can be aligned without counting out the beats correctly in each one. This
> would be structurally analogous to the use of TABs in a single line of typed
> material, but it would not be associated with lines of music, rather with
> entire scores.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Mike O'D.
>
> On 12/30/2010 02:41 PM, Michael Ellis wrote:
>>
>> From: Michael Ellis
>> Subject: A small but vexing problem
>> To: LilyPond User Group
>> Message-ID:
>>        
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> I think I mentioned in a prior post that I'm creating LilyPond versions of
>> 400 Bach chorales with moveable do solfege beneath the notes.  I've now
>> got
>> workable versions for the chorales with all parts together and hope to
>> have
>> them up on a website soon with pdf and midi files available also.  I'd
>> also
>> like to include individual part versions of the file, so a user can see
>> and
>> hear a single part.  The one stumbling block I'm hitting is the fermatas
>> at
>> phrase ends.  The source I'm using for the notes in each parts has the
>> fermatas only in the soprano line.
>>
>> Does anyone have a clever idea for automating the process of creating
>> corresponding fermatas for the other parts?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Mike
>
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Re: A small but vexing problem (fermatas in several voices)

[Alexander Kobel]

On 2010-12-30 22:44, Michael J. O'Donnell wrote:
> Annoyance: the expressive part needs skips of the durations
> corresponding to the notes in between the expressive marks. Someday, I
> hope that LilyPond will have the facility to mark temporal points in
> various parts so that they can be aligned without counting out the beats
> correctly in each one. This would be structurally analogous to the use
> of TABs in a single line of typed material, but it would not be
> associated with lines of music, rather with entire scores.

This idea of defining "anchors" or "targets" in the music is a
long-standing [*], much-awaited request for enhancement.  See
, and be sure to
check out Gilles' workaround (comment #2).  I never tested Gilles' code,
though, and I'm not sure whether it will work in the upcoming 2.14.

[*] I think this idea is much older than the report filed in the tracker.

Unfortunately IIUC this amounts to a quite invasive change in the whole
LilyPond structure of parsing and handling input, and is unlikely to
appear in the not-so-near future.  Especially since it does not increase
overall functionality or output quality, and it's easy to overcome for
freshly written LilyPond scores with reasonably clever variable definitions.


Cheers,
Alexander

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Re: A small but vexing problem (fermatas in several voices)

[Phil Hézaine]

Le 31/12/2010 00:26, Alexander Kobel a écrit :
> On 2010-12-30 22:44, Michael J. O'Donnell wrote:
>> Annoyance: the expressive part needs skips of the durations
>> corresponding to the notes in between the expressive marks. Someday, I
>> hope that LilyPond will have the facility to mark temporal points in
>> various parts so that they can be aligned without counting out the beats
>> correctly in each one. This would be structurally analogous to the use
>> of TABs in a single line of typed material, but it would not be
>> associated with lines of music, rather with entire scores.
> 
> This idea of defining "anchors" or "targets" in the music is a
> long-standing [*], much-awaited request for enhancement.  See
> , and be sure to
> check out Gilles' workaround (comment #2).  I never tested Gilles' code,
> though, and I'm not sure whether it will work in the upcoming 2.14.
> 
> [*] I think this idea is much older than the report filed in the tracker.
> 
> Unfortunately IIUC this amounts to a quite invasive change in the whole
> LilyPond structure of parsing and handling input, and is unlikely to
> appear in the not-so-near future.  Especially since it does not increase
> overall functionality or output quality, and it's easy to overcome for
> freshly written LilyPond scores with reasonably clever variable definitions.
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> Alexander

Hi Michael,

If you are stopped with this issue I think I could change my files to
integrate one more variable with only the fermatas and rests. Would be
usefull for you? Anyway if I want to edit the 'breakpoints' in GNU
Solfege and avoid headaches, I need it later. However I work from the
Breitkopf's edition. It seems, at a rough guess, there aren't different
for that point but are containing only 371 chorals which are written on
2 Staffs. I've typed around 300 Chorals and I'm finally going to type
the whole thing. (ISMLP could be happy.) With a template and Frescobaldi
it isn't so difficult. Your work is very interesting for me because if i
have the ansvers about the use of a free license and the sources of
jsbchorales for a book, updating the files will be much easier. I'm
confident each of us are near the end of it, in a complementary way.
By the way, we also are near the end of 2010.
Happy New Year.
Phil.

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Re: A small but vexing problem (fermatas in several voices)

[Michael Ellis]

Hi Phil,
The problem is pretty well solved. I'm just cleaning up a few things
in my scripts today.

 I don't have all the answers yet regarding copyrights.  Margaret
Greentree's site seems to claim copyrights only to the PDF images and
those are freely shared for non-commercial use.  So I'm not quite sure
how that might apply to works derived from the MusicXML files.

My thought was to release my versions with attribution to her and a
Creative Commons license with similar conditions -- free use for
non-commercial purposes with attribution and share-alike.

Initially, I'm going to put the files into a googlecode site so it's
easy to allow more than one person to edit them.  I'll be happy to add
your name to the list of "developers" for the site.  Later on, I want
to put up a free site that can serve PDF, midi, and mp3 files.

Looking forward to working with you!

Cheers,
Mike



On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 1:48 PM, Phil Hézaine  wrote:
> Le 31/12/2010 00:26, Alexander Kobel a écrit :
>> On 2010-12-30 22:44, Michael J. O'Donnell wrote:
>>> Annoyance: the expressive part needs skips of the durations
>>> corresponding to the notes in between the expressive marks. Someday, I
>>> hope that LilyPond will have the facility to mark temporal points in
>>> various parts so that they can be aligned without counting out the beats
>>> correctly in each one. This would be structurally analogous to the use
>>> of TABs in a single line of typed material, but it would not be
>>> associated with lines of music, rather with entire scores.
>>
>> This idea of defining "anchors" or "targets" in the music is a
>> long-standing [*], much-awaited request for enhancement.  See
>> , and be sure to
>> check out Gilles' workaround (comment #2).  I never tested Gilles' code,
>> though, and I'm not sure whether it will work in the upcoming 2.14.
>>
>> [*] I think this idea is much older than the report filed in the tracker.
>>
>> Unfortunately IIUC this amounts to a quite invasive change in the whole
>> LilyPond structure of parsing and handling input, and is unlikely to
>> appear in the not-so-near future.  Especially since it does not increase
>> overall functionality or output quality, and it's easy to overcome for
>> freshly written LilyPond scores with reasonably clever variable definitions.
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Alexander
>
> Hi Michael,
>
> If you are stopped with this issue I think I could change my files to
> integrate one more variable with only the fermatas and rests. Would be
> usefull for you? Anyway if I want to edit the 'breakpoints' in GNU
> Solfege and avoid headaches, I need it later. However I work from the
> Breitkopf's edition. It seems, at a rough guess, there aren't different
> for that point but are containing only 371 chorals which are written on
> 2 Staffs. I've typed around 300 Chorals and I'm finally going to type
> the whole thing. (ISMLP could be happy.) With a template and Frescobaldi
> it isn't so difficult. Your work is very interesting for me because if i
> have the ansvers about the use of a free license and the sources of
> jsbchorales for a book, updating the files will be much easier. I'm
> confident each of us are near the end of it, in a complementary way.
> By the way, we also are near the end of 2010.
> Happy New Year.
> Phil.
>
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> lilypond-user@gnu.org
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Re: A small but vexing problem (fermatas in several voices)

[Phil Hézaine]

Le 31/12/2010 20:33, Michael Ellis a écrit :
> Hi Phil,
> The problem is pretty well solved. I'm just cleaning up a few things
> in my scripts today.
> 
>  I don't have all the answers yet regarding copyrights.  Margaret
> Greentree's site seems to claim copyrights only to the PDF images and
> those are freely shared for non-commercial use.  So I'm not quite sure
> how that might apply to works derived from the MusicXML files.
> 
> My thought was to release my versions with attribution to her and a
> Creative Commons license with similar conditions -- free use for
> non-commercial purposes with attribution and share-alike.
> 
> Initially, I'm going to put the files into a googlecode site so it's
> easy to allow more than one person to edit them.  I'll be happy to add
> your name to the list of "developers" for the site.  Later on, I want
> to put up a free site that can serve PDF, midi, and mp3 files.
> 
> Looking forward to working with you!
> 
> Cheers,
> Mike

Hi Mike,

Formidable work! Really! You have burst the 'starting blocks' of 2011!
More deeper thoughts and decisions to this new thread:

ANN: Solfege Resources -- 404 bach chorales in Lilypond format with
Movable Do solfege.

when my head is clever, a bit later.
Happy New Year for all.
Phil.

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Re: A small but vexing problem (fermatas in several voices)

[Michael Ellis]

Thanks very much, Phil.  Your appreciation means a lot!   My head is
still a bit fuzzy, too.  I'm looking forward to to those deeper
thoughts and working with you to make solfege-resources useful to as
many people as possible.
Cheers,
Mike



On Sat, Jan 1, 2011 at 8:35 AM, Phil Hézaine  wrote:
> Le 31/12/2010 20:33, Michael Ellis a écrit :
>> Hi Phil,
>> The problem is pretty well solved. I'm just cleaning up a few things
>> in my scripts today.
>>
>>  I don't have all the answers yet regarding copyrights.  Margaret
>> Greentree's site seems to claim copyrights only to the PDF images and
>> those are freely shared for non-commercial use.  So I'm not quite sure
>> how that might apply to works derived from the MusicXML files.
>>
>> My thought was to release my versions with attribution to her and a
>> Creative Commons license with similar conditions -- free use for
>> non-commercial purposes with attribution and share-alike.
>>
>> Initially, I'm going to put the files into a googlecode site so it's
>> easy to allow more than one person to edit them.  I'll be happy to add
>> your name to the list of "developers" for the site.  Later on, I want
>> to put up a free site that can serve PDF, midi, and mp3 files.
>>
>> Looking forward to working with you!
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Mike
>
> Hi Mike,
>
> Formidable work! Really! You have burst the 'starting blocks' of 2011!
> More deeper thoughts and decisions to this new thread:
>
> ANN: Solfege Resources -- 404 bach chorales in Lilypond format with
> Movable Do solfege.
>
> when my head is clever, a bit later.
> Happy New Year for all.
> Phil.
>
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