Re: GDP: Rhythms rewrite
On 7 Oct 2007, at 21:16, Graham Percival wrote: On 7 Oct 2007, at 01:13, Graham Percival wrote: I've identified the following areas to work on; please add items or discuss them. As for the section 6.6, the Harvard Concise Dictionary of Music calls it expression marks, which includes tempo and dynamic marks, legato, staccato, bowing, articulation phrasing, use of piano pedals, etc. Err... I'm discussing section 1.2 Rhythms in the GDP docs. Yes, I am aware that it might not fit with the topic. :-) What is GDP, then? Looking at: http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.11/Documentation/ there seems nothing that can be abbreviated as such. Hans Åberg ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: GDP: Rhythms rewrite
On 8 Oct 2007, at 17:24, Francisco Vila wrote: El Mon, 08 de Oct de 2007, a las 04:45:36PM +0200, Hans Aberg dijo: On 8 Oct 2007, at 16:38, Francisco Vila wrote: Search the list archives and read the first messages with GDP in the subject. GDP is for Grand Documentation Project. Thank you. I saw that in another post. The point is that anything only appearing in the mailing lists are not a part of the official documentation. And knowing that some of the documents are edited, without knowing which one or which section makes it hard to follow for the non-expert. :-) GDP is not official yet. Editions are not affecting to the current docs, be stable or development. They are on a different branch. If you want to see the actual state, follow the link http://git.sv.gnu.org/gitweb/? p=lilypond.git;a=summary and see under heads -- lilypond/gdp Thank you. I think you should put up a link on the LilyPond documents page. There is so much information around these days. Perhaps setting up a Wiki? Hans Åberg ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: GDP: Rhythms rewrite
Hans Aberg wrote: On 8 Oct 2007, at 17:24, Francisco Vila wrote: GDP is not official yet. Editions are not affecting to the current docs, be stable or development. They are on a different branch. If you want to see the actual state, follow the link http://git.sv.gnu.org/gitweb/?p=lilypond.git;a=summary and see under heads -- lilypond/gdp Yes. In particular, once GDP has progressed a bit more, it will be merged with the devel branch. Thank you. I think you should put up a link on the LilyPond documents page. There is so much information around these days. No, because GDP _is_ the next version of the lilypond docs. Perhaps setting up a Wiki? If you want real documentation, wikis are worse than useless. Cheers, - Graham ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: GDP: Rhythms rewrite
On 8 Oct 2007, at 20:06, Graham Percival wrote: GDP is not official yet. Editions are not affecting to the current docs, be stable or development. They are on a different branch. If you want to see the actual state, follow the link http://git.sv.gnu.org/gitweb/? p=lilypond.git;a=summary and see under heads -- lilypond/gdp Yes. In particular, once GDP has progressed a bit more, it will be merged with the devel branch. Thank you. I think you should put up a link on the LilyPond documents page. There is so much information around these days. No, because GDP _is_ the next version of the lilypond docs. This would be only if you want people to read it before it has been made the official docs. Perhaps setting up a Wiki? If you want real documentation, wikis are worse than useless. Wikis are great for silly little facts one does not know where to put elsewhere. Hans Åberg ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: GDP: Rhythms rewrite
Hans Aberg wrote: On 8 Oct 2007, at 20:06, Graham Percival wrote: No, because GDP _is_ the next version of the lilypond docs. This would be only if you want people to read it before it has been made the official docs. I post a link to http://opihi.cs.uvic.ca/~gperciva/ about twice a week on this mailist. Perhaps setting up a Wiki? If you want real documentation, wikis are worse than useless. Wikis are great for silly little facts one does not know where to put elsewhere. If somebody has a real documentation addition, I will figure out where to put it. If they have a small lilypond example, they add it to LSR. Cheers, - Graham ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: GDP: Rhythms rewrite
On 8 Oct 2007, at 20:48, Graham Percival wrote: No, because GDP _is_ the next version of the lilypond docs. This would be only if you want people to read it before it has been made the official docs. I post a link to http://opihi.cs.uvic.ca/~gperciva/ about twice a week on this mailist. One problem is that the traffic here is so heavy, that it is hard to read it all. And I went to that link, but when I click on it, it says: LilyPond documentation Version 2.11.32 Nothing really that giving any hint of any GDP. Now that you say it, perhaps one might guess that this LilyPond documentation Version 2.11.32 is not really that, but GDP. Right? Perhaps setting up a Wiki? If you want real documentation, wikis are worse than useless. Wikis are great for silly little facts one does not know where to put elsewhere. If somebody has a real documentation addition, I will figure out where to put it. If they have a small lilypond example, they add it to LSR. The setup is perhaps great for the dedicated user, but a steep learning curve. And it is hard to find the information. A little like UNIX. The method I have found best, is to have it all in a single PDF, and in Preview (a Mac OS X PDF reader) search for certain keywords. The problem is really to get quickly find the information needed. Hans Åberg ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: GDP: Rhythms rewrite
I really don't understand what you're complaining about. Hans Aberg wrote: One problem is that the traffic here is so heavy, that it is hard to read it all. And I went to that link, but when I click on it, it says: LilyPond documentation Version 2.11.32 Nothing really that giving any hint of any GDP. Now that you say it, perhaps one might guess that this LilyPond documentation Version 2.11.32 is not really that, but GDP. Right? GDP stands for the Grand Documentation Project of LilyPond. The only place to find the link to opihi is from one of my emails on lilypond-user, so everybody who goes there knows that it's part of the GDP. - Graham ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: GDP: Rhythms rewrite
On 8 Oct 2007, at 22:09, Graham Percival wrote: I really don't understand what you're complaining about. It is your project, so you do whatever you want. But if you want more inputs, I think that at Quick Links at http:// lilypond.org/web/ you should put up a link GDP (Grand Documentation Project) to http://opihi.cs.uvic.ca/~gperciva/. And on this latter page, add a short description of the project, and how comments can be made. And on http://opihi.cs.uvic.ca/~gperciva/lilypond/Documentation/index.html and all the GDP documents, set Version 2.11.32 GDP, so that it is different from the regular documentation. Just an input. :-) Hans Åberg ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: GDP: Rhythms rewrite
On 7 Oct 2007, at 01:13, Graham Percival wrote:
I've identified the following areas to work on; please add items or
discuss them.
As for the section 6.6, the Harvard Concise Dictionary of Music
calls it expression marks, which includes tempo and dynamic marks,
legato, staccato, bowing, articulation phrasing, use of piano pedals,
etc.
But ornaments seem not be included in this classification. The
article ornaments [loc.cit.] mentions them as various
embellishments by additions or variations of rhythms, melody or harmony.
Not a big point, perhaps, but it may make a difference when
searching, and the musical treatment is somewhat different, also
notationally. Pitched ornaments may require various embellishments
(accidentals and grace notes), and the sections on these might be
expanded.
For example, I am wrestling with the addition of accidentals to
pitched ornaments (\trill, etc.), and following the manual, I have
added the macros:
above = { \once \override Script #'script-priority = #-100 }
below = { \once \override TextScript #'script-priority = #-100 }
Even with these, the addition of accidentals is somewhat cumbersome.
An idea that comes to my mind would if say the {...} could works as
environments also in the markups. The idea is that writing
fis{\trill^\flat}
\flat work work in the environment created by \trill, that is markup,
and then ^ would be given local meaning as a super-positioning to
the \trill symbol rather than to the note fis. Then the different
accidentals could be added easily in a very compact notation. For
example
fis{\turn^sharp_\flat}
would be a turn with a sharp above and a flat below.
The section might be renamed to say: Expression marks and
ornamentation.
Hans Åberg
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Re: GDP: Rhythms rewrite
On 7 Oct 2007, at 01:13, Graham Percival wrote: I've identified the following areas to work on; please add items or =20= discuss them. I don't know if this sort of thing is what you're asking for... For me, the biggest problem is the one which is stated as a Bug in the manual about the synchronization of grace notes (section 6.5.7 of the manual). I very often write grace notes in scores with many staves (of course). In Lilypond it often happens that I need to add grace spacing, \grace s8 for instance, on other voices. This makes no sense, grace notes do not take up any time of their own, by definition, they steal it from real notes, and therefore it is correctly labeled as a bug in the manual. The problem is that the proposed work-around becomes unmanageable. Suppose you're writing an orquestral score, and have the scores for each instrument even perhaps in separate files. One problem you already have is maintaining the synchronization of bars, that is, make sure no bar is missing on any score. But this is supposed to be, and Lilypond has the appropriate tools to make sure the bars stay in synch. This need for grace spacing requires you to make sure that grace spacing isn't missing in any score, you, the writer, are given by the program an additional task, which not only makes no sense in music as is also very hard to manage correctly. Whenever you add a set of grace notes to one score near some bar line in some cases which I cannot predict correctly, you are forced to add corresponding spacing to every other score. So, I don't know if this is the kind of feature that you may be going to rework, if it isn't, it's ok... I do think this is something which must be considered a priority due to: - It is not easily predictable when grace spacing is going to be necessary. - It is very hard to manage that all staves of a given score have been added the necessary spacing. Greetings, Miguel ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: GDP: Rhythms rewrite
Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos wrote: On 7 Oct 2007, at 01:13, Graham Percival wrote: I've identified the following areas to work on; please add items or =20= discuss them. I don't know if this sort of thing is what you're asking for... For me, the biggest problem is the one which is stated as a Bug in the manual about the synchronization of grace notes (section 6.5.7 of the manual). Unfortunately, that it outside the scope of this project. This is the Grand _Documentation_ Project. The goal of documentation is to accurately and clearly describe how to use the program. I agree that grace note synchronization is buggy, but all I can do is document the bug and the workaround. Cheers, - Graham ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: GDP: Rhythms rewrite
Hans Aberg wrote: On 7 Oct 2007, at 01:13, Graham Percival wrote: I've identified the following areas to work on; please add items or discuss them. As for the section 6.6, the Harvard Concise Dictionary of Music calls it expression marks, which includes tempo and dynamic marks, legato, staccato, bowing, articulation phrasing, use of piano pedals, etc. Err... I'm discussing section 1.2 Rhythms in the GDP docs. Section 6.6 is Scheme procedures as properties. You may see the GDP docs here: http://opihi.cs.uvic.ca/~gperciva/ We will probably start discussing expressive marks in two weeks, once Pitches is finished and Rhythms is almost finished. Cheers, - Graham ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: GDP: Rhythms rewrite
Unfortunately, that it outside the scope of this project. This is the Grand _Documentation_ Project. Ah! My mistake. :-) Perhaps I can help after I finnish this piece. I know LISP well, but this is a particularly intricate program, very hard to understand. See you, Miguel ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
