Re: Horizontal \sustainOn alignment

[Mark Knoop]

At 09:29 on 24 Mar 2016, Kieren MacMillan wrote:
>> In all of Gould's examples, it's more the "e" that's centered on the
>> notehead.  
>
>We must have different Goulds: not only are all of the examples I see
>left-aligned with the left edge of the “P” [even using a magnifying
>glass], but Gould explicitly states (in the prose) that this is the
>the correct alignment.

It seems that Gould is not consistent. In the first pedal example at
the end of Chapter 2 (page 73 in my edition) the Ped symbol is centered
on the notehead. But in the more detailed treatment of piano pedalling
in Chapter 11 (page 333 and onwards) Ped is left aligned as Kieren
states.

-- 
Mark Knoop

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Re: Horizontal \sustainOn alignment

[Mark Knoop]

At 15:04 on 24 Mar 2016, Mark Knoop wrote:
>At 09:29 on 24 Mar 2016, Kieren MacMillan wrote:
>>> In all of Gould's examples, it's more the "e" that's centered on the
>>> notehead.
>>
>>We must have different Goulds: not only are all of the examples I see
>>left-aligned with the left edge of the “P” [even using a magnifying
>>glass], but Gould explicitly states (in the prose) that this is the
>>the correct alignment.  
>
>It seems that Gould is not consistent. In the first pedal example at
>the end of Chapter 2 (page 73 in my edition) the Ped symbol is centered
>on the notehead. But in the more detailed treatment of piano pedalling
>in Chapter 11 (page 333 and onwards) Ped is left aligned as Kieren
>states.

In a brief flip through my piano music library there certainly doesn't
seem to be any consistency, even within one work, let alone publication
or edition. Most common is an alignment where the gap between the "P"
and "e" of Ped is roughly centered on the notehead. But this drifts in
both directions. Exact left alignment was relatively uncommon.

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Re: Horizontal \sustainOn alignment

[tisimst]

On Thu, Mar 24, 2016 at 7:29 AM, Kieren MacMillan [via Lilypond] <
ml-node+s1069038n188919...@n5.nabble.com> wrote:

> > Is that even doable?
>
> Of course. Simply change the X-offset:
>
> \version "2.19.36"
>
> pedalstuff = {
>   \clef bass
>   c1\sustainOn c1\sustainOff
>   \override Staff.SustainPedal.X-offset = #4
>   c1\sustainOn c1\sustainOff
>   \override Staff.SustainPedal.X-offset = #0.125
>   c1\sustainOn c1\sustainOff
> }
>
> \score { \pedalstuff }
>

Or better yet (and more precisely),

\override Staff.SustainPedal.self-alignment-X = #LEFT

Best,
Abraham




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Re: Horizontal \sustainOn alignment

[Kieren MacMillan]

Hi,

> In all of Gould's examples, it's more the "e" that's centered on the notehead.

We must have different Goulds: not only are all of the examples I see 
left-aligned with the left edge of the “P” [even using a magnifying glass], but 
Gould explicitly states (in the prose) that this is the the correct alignment.

> My client wants the vertical of the P to be flush with the left side of the 
> notehead

Exactly. That’s the standard.

> Is that even doable?

Of course. Simply change the X-offset:

\version "2.19.36"

pedalstuff = {
  \clef bass
  c1\sustainOn c1\sustainOff
  \override Staff.SustainPedal.X-offset = #4
  c1\sustainOn c1\sustainOff
  \override Staff.SustainPedal.X-offset = #0.125
  c1\sustainOn c1\sustainOff
}

\score { \pedalstuff }

Hope this helps.
Kieren.


Kieren MacMillan, composer
‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
‣ email: i...@kierenmacmillan.info


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Re: Horizontal \sustainOn alignment

[N. Andrew Walsh]

Hi Andrew,

thank you for your kind offer. To be honest, I tend to agree with you: as
ugly as the Fraktur glyph is, it's immediately recognizable (Gould even
argues against using a Roman typeface, to avoid confusion with the
sostenuto pedal). TBH, I think it was aligned like this in my working copy
because the client had his son do it in Finale, and the son didn't know how
to do it so just placed a text block into the score.

In that case, I'll let the client know that standard praxis places the
glyph as it is, and ask him how serious he is about wanting it moved.

Cheers,

A

On Thu, Mar 24, 2016 at 1:36 PM, Andrew Bernard 
wrote:

> Hi Andrew.
>
> Talk them out of it! :-)
>
> I understand why they want this – they want the exact start of the pedal
> down to be exactly on the leading edge of the note. But I think if they
> want that precision they are better off using the bracket pedal notation,
> which can be fine tuned easily. However, if they must have these dreadful
> ugly 19 century Ped glyphs then I have some pedal stencil code that can be
> adapted I believe.
>
> Let me know how serious the client is about this, and if they will not
> budge and accept traditional practice, I could have a go at some custom
> code for you.
>
> With the Fraktur font P, where exactly do they think the vertical line
> lies? [I need to know if we are to do this.]
>
> I don’t think there are existing LSR snippets for this – but I may be
> wrong. The LSR search engine is primitive.
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
> On 24/03/2016, 22:42, "N. Andrew Walsh" <
> lilypond-user-bounces+andrew.bernard=gmail@gnu.org on behalf of
> n.andrew.wa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Well, we're talking about mm. here: In all of Gould's examples, it's more
> the "e" that's centered on the notehead. My client wants the vertical of
> the P to be flush with the left side of the notehead (which shifts it
> slightly but noticeably rightward compared to standards). I'm not sure why,
> but that's what he wants. Is that even doable?
>
> Cheers,
>
> A
>
> On Thu, Mar 24, 2016 at 12:39 PM, Kieren MacMillan <
> kieren_macmil...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> > For reasons inexplicable to me (also somewhat odd from an engraving
>> standpoint) my client wants the traditional Ped. glyph left-aligned to the
>> start of the note.
>>
>> Isn’t that the accepted tradition (cf. Gould)?
>> Perhaps I’m misunderstanding your description…
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Kieren.
>> 
>>
>> Kieren MacMillan, composer
>> ‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
>> ‣ email: i...@kierenmacmillan.info
>>
>>
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Re: Horizontal \sustainOn alignment

[N. Andrew Walsh]

Well, we're talking about mm. here: In all of Gould's examples, it's more
the "e" that's centered on the notehead. My client wants the vertical of
the P to be flush with the left side of the notehead (which shifts it
slightly but noticeably rightward compared to standards). I'm not sure why,
but that's what he wants. Is that even doable?

Cheers,

A

On Thu, Mar 24, 2016 at 12:39 PM, Kieren MacMillan <
kieren_macmil...@sympatico.ca> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> > For reasons inexplicable to me (also somewhat odd from an engraving
> standpoint) my client wants the traditional Ped. glyph left-aligned to the
> start of the note.
>
> Isn’t that the accepted tradition (cf. Gould)?
> Perhaps I’m misunderstanding your description…
>
> Thanks,
> Kieren.
> 
>
> Kieren MacMillan, composer
> ‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
> ‣ email: i...@kierenmacmillan.info
>
>
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Re: Horizontal \sustainOn alignment

[Kieren MacMillan]

Hi,

> For reasons inexplicable to me (also somewhat odd from an engraving 
> standpoint) my client wants the traditional Ped. glyph left-aligned to the 
> start of the note.

Isn’t that the accepted tradition (cf. Gould)?
Perhaps I’m misunderstanding your description…

Thanks,
Kieren.


Kieren MacMillan, composer
‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
‣ email: i...@kierenmacmillan.info


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