Re: Lilypond not generating PDF
Strange. I get the same thing on Windows !!. If you drag and drop onto lilypond-windows.exe in program files, it works fine and makes test.pdf on the desktop. I never use Windows for lilypond, but I am sure this used to work. The version I downloaded was 2.22.2. Andrew Ben Eisenstein wrote on 4/07/2022 8:48 AM: I installed Lilypond pn Windows 10. I followed the intstructions of updating the path. Then I put the test.ly file on the desktop. Then placed it's icon over the Lilypond icon.
Re: Lilypond not generating PDF
I tried this on Windows 10, 2.22.2. Same problem. But if you right click test.pdf and say Generate PDF it works. [Note that that menu option appears to be unavailable in Windows 11 unless I just cant see it. On W10 to make sure an installation of ghostscript is not interfering I removed all trace of it and rebooted. Problem remains. Nest I'll try a later dev version. Andrew
Re: Lilypond not generating PDF
And note that when using the right click generate PDF method the log now has a final line missing from the log made by the drag and drop: # -*-compilation-*- Processing `C:/Users/andre/Desktop/test.ly' Parsing... Interpreting music... Preprocessing graphical objects... Finding the ideal number of pages... Fitting music on 1 page... Drawing systems... Converting to `/Users/andre/Desktop/test.pdf'... Success: compilation successfully completed
Re: Lilypond not generating PDF
Is LilyPond installed with administrative rights? That's a common reason for drag and drop not to work (it's forbidden in that case). Paul From: Ben Eisenstein To: Sent: 03/07/2022 23:48 Subject: Lilypond not generating PDF I installed Lilypond pn Windows 10. I followed the intstructions of updating the path. Then I put the test.ly file on the desktop. Then placed it's icon over the Lilypond icon. Two files were created: test and test-tmp-9972888, This is the content of test: # -*-compilation-*- Processing `C:/Users/Ben/Desktop/test.ly' Parsing... Interpreting music... Preprocessing graphical objects... Finding the ideal number of pages... Fitting music on 1 page... Drawing systems... Converting to `/Users/Ben/Desktop/test.pdf'... The tst-temp file starts with: %!PS-Adobe-3.0 %%Creator: LilyPond 2.22.1 %%Pages: 1 %%PageOrder: Ascend %%Orientation: Portrait %%DocumentMedia: a4 595.28 841.89 80 () () %%DocumentSuppliedResources: font C059-Bold %%DocumentSuppliedResources: font C059-Roman %%DocumentSuppliedResources: font Emmentaler-20 %%EndComments Any ideas as to what could be wrong? Thanks, Ben
Re: Lilypond not generating PDF
I do know know how to _not_ install it with admin rights as the sole user, me, has admin permissions. I don't see that one should have to make a non admin user for LilyPond, and if so, why is it not in the basic instructions? It is not mentioned as far as I can see. Andrew Paul Hodges wrote on 4/07/2022 5:46 PM: Is LilyPond installed with administrative rights? That's a common reason for drag and drop not to work (it's forbidden in that case).
Re: Lilypond not generating PDF
Le 04/07/2022 à 10:26, Andrew Bernard a écrit : I do know know how to _not_ install it with admin rights as the sole user, me, has admin permissions. I don't see that one should have to make a non admin user for LilyPond, and if so, why is it not in the basic instructions? It is not mentioned as far as I can see. About amending the basic instructions, it's become moot anyway, because in 2.23 we don't provide an 'app', just binaries that you can use on the terminal or from an editor like Frescobaldi. Even in 2.22, I would strongly recommend not using drag-and-drop, which is inconvenient, but Frescobaldi. Jean
Re: Lilypond not generating PDF
I'm only doing this ion behalf of the OP. But I'm sure he'd agree with me that this is confusing, as one normally expects basic initial instructions to have been tested and work. Especially since this is the Stable Release. I see from searching that the issue is with elevated and non elevated permissions. OK. But this is pretty fundamental isn't it? Andrew Jean Abou Samra wrote on 4/07/2022 6:43 PM: About amending the basic instructions, it's become moot anyway, because in 2.23 we don't provide an 'app', just binaries that you can use on the terminal or from an editor like Frescobaldi. Even in 2.22, I would strongly recommend not using drag-and-drop, which is inconvenient, but Frescobaldi.
Re: Lilypond not generating PDF
Le 04/07/2022 à 10:50, Andrew Bernard a écrit : I'm only doing this ion behalf of the OP. But I'm sure he'd agree with me that this is confusing, as one normally expects basic initial instructions to have been tested and work. Especially since this is the Stable Release. The LilyPad app was suffering from multiple issues in addition to being too minimalistic to be usable, and that is why it has been dropped in 2.23. I see from searching that the issue is with elevated and non elevated permissions. OK. But this is pretty fundamental isn't it? Speaking for myself, it's the first time I hear about it (or I do not remember the previous discussions). Re "this is pretty fundamental": what conclusion do you draw from it? Keeping things working for different systems is just a lot of effort. Do you volunteer to go update the installation instructions for the new binaries (https://gitlab.com/lilypond/lilypond/-/issues/6310) and test them on Linux + macOS + Windows? That would be very welcome (no irony intended). Thanks, Jean
Re: Lilypond not generating PDF
Still can't get it right! s/Extended/Elevated/ Paul From: Paul Hodges To: lilypond-user Sent: 04/07/2022 14:13 Subject: Re: Lilypond not generating PDF From: Andrew Bernard I do know know how to _not_ install it with admin rights as the sole user, me, has admin permissions. Sorry, I expressed it loosely. As you determined, the issue is specifically Extended Permissions - which, however, are selected in Windows with the menu item "Run as Administrator" (even if you are already administrator). Paul
Re: Lilypond not generating PDF
From: Andrew Bernard I do know know how to _not_ install it with admin rights as the sole user, me, has admin permissions. Sorry, I expressed it loosely. As you determined, the issue is specifically Extended Permissions - which, however, are selected in Windows with the menu item "Run as Administrator" (even if you are already administrator). Paul
Re: Lilypond not generating PDF
On 2022-07-04 1:50 am, Andrew Bernard wrote: I see from searching that the issue is with elevated and non elevated permissions. Where do you see this? Drag-and-drop is a simple feature of the Windows shell that should require no special permission. What are the details of the LilyPond shortcut on the desktop? Which executable does it reference? Does it specify any additional arguments? What is the start directory? etc. For additional diagnostics and troubleshooting, I would recommend reviewing the behavior logged by Process Monitor [1] (from Sysinternals). In particular, take note of any errors originating from LilyPond or its child processes. [1]: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/downloads/procmon -- Aaron Hill
Re: Lilypond not generating PDF
Blocking dropping onto elevated targets from a non-elevated desktop has been a security feature of UAC since it was introduced a decade and a half ago. You can remove the restriction by running with UAC turned off, which the security-minded will of course advise you not to do, and many people have no clue about anyway (it is, however, the way I run my machine, because I choose how to control my security myself). Alternatively, you can get a third-party file manager, run it with elevated permissions, and then drop and drop within it - but you can't elevate Windows Explorer to try to get the same effect. Paul From: Aaron Hill On 2022-07-04 1:50 am, Andrew Bernard wrote: > I see from searching that the issue is with elevated and non elevated > permissions. Where do you see this? Drag-and-drop is a simple feature of the Windows shell that should require no special permission.
Re: Lilypond not generating PDF
On Mon 04 Jul 2022 at 23:03:14 (+0100), Paul Hodges wrote: > From: Aaron Hill > > On 2022-07-04 1:50 am, Andrew Bernard wrote: > > > I see from searching that the issue is with elevated and non elevated > > > permissions. > > > > Where do you see this? Drag-and-drop is a simple feature of the Windows > > shell that should require no special permission. > > Blocking dropping onto elevated targets from a non-elevated desktop has been > a security feature of UAC since it was introduced a decade and a half ago. > You can remove the restriction by running with UAC turned off, which the > security-minded will of course advise you not to do, and many people have no > clue about anyway (it is, however, the way I run my machine, because I choose > how to control my security myself). > > Alternatively, you can get a third-party file manager, run it with elevated > permissions, and then drop and drop within it - but you can't elevate Windows > Explorer to try to get the same effect. This, and workarounds, is discussed here, but I'm not a Windows user so I can't comment on its accuracy: https://superuser.com/questions/59051/drag-and-drop-file-into-application-under-run-as-administrator Cheers, David.
Re: Lilypond not generating PDF
On 2022-07-04 3:03 pm, Paul Hodges wrote: Blocking dropping onto elevated targets from a non-elevated desktop has been a security feature of UAC since it was introduced a decade and a half ago. You can remove the restriction by running with UAC turned off, which the security-minded will of course advise you not to do, and many people have no clue about anyway (it is, however, the way I run my machine, because I choose how to control my security myself). Alternatively, you can get a third-party file manager, run it with elevated permissions, and then drop and drop within it - but you can't elevate Windows Explorer to try to get the same effect. LilyPond does not require nor does it request elevation. The UAC limitation you refer to is irrelevant, as that only concerns cross-application behavior where one process has a lower privilege level. There would be no such problem when you are dragging and dropping files within the shell itself, as would be the case when dropping onto a desktop shortcut. -- Aaron Hill
Re: Lilypond not generating PDF
I'm sorry, I don't understand this. Dragging test.ly on the desktop to the LilyPond icon on the desktop fails to produce the PDF output. Both on Windows 10 and 11. What I also completely fail to understand is given that this has apparently never worked, why the instructions for 2.22 stable release say to do this, and that people are advised explicitly to choose the stable release if they want, well, stability and presumably correct operation. Now it's all very well saying the new version has dropped the app because it was limited, but it was good enough for a very long time, an also, obviously, this is not mentioned in the manual for the stable release. Are we still updating 2.22? Can I volunteer to remove that section from the installation page? To a large extent I don't care. I don't use Windows for LilyPond. But I am sure there are many who do. It's a bad UX to have the first steps in the instructions fail. It's enough for people to remove the program right away, if that's the opening overture. As to using a different file manager, well the whole point is that this is a problem on the desktop, and it's convenient to have working files on the desktop for quick and easy access. Andrew Aaron Hill wrote on 5/07/2022 8:41 AM: The UAC limitation you refer to is irrelevant, as that only concerns cross-application behavior where one process has a lower privilege level. There would be no such problem when you are dragging and dropping files within the shell itself, as would be the case when dropping onto a desktop shortcut.
Re: Lilypond not generating PDF
I was finally able to get a PDF. I had to run command shell in administrative mode. Then switch to the directory the test file was in. I was then able to run test.ly. Thank you for the clue that it was a permissions issue. I would suggest changing the Windows instructions or at least indicate that it should be run in command shell at the elevated level. But if this is all going to change in the next release, then maybe not worth the effort. Ben
Re: Lilypond not generating PDF
The question, when will 2.22 be replaced? Not soon? I have volunteered to update the instructions, if I am allowed. I run XYplorer. It's a great file explorer program, (paid). Running that as administrator drag and drop works. But in the process I found out that some links do not show up. I searched and found something I did not know and I suspect most people do not know. The Windows user desktop is a merged view of two desktop folders: C:/Users//Desktop C:/Users/Public/Desktop The LilyPond link goes in the Public desktop. Why Microsoft does this I have no idea. Andrew Ben Eisenstein wrote on 5/07/2022 10:19 AM: I was finally able to get a PDF. I had to run command shell in administrative mode. Then switch to the directory the test file was in. I was then able to run test.ly. Thank you for the clue that it was a permissions issue. I would suggest changing the Windows instructions or at least indicate that it should be run in command shell at the elevated level. But if this is all going to change in the next release, then maybe not worth the effort. Ben
Re: Lilypond not generating PDF
On 2022-07-04 5:07 pm, Andrew Bernard wrote: I'm sorry, I don't understand this. Dragging test.ly on the desktop to the LilyPond icon on the desktop fails to produce the PDF output. Both on Windows 10 and 11. That is a different issue than the UAC drag-and-drop limitation that was mentioned. Elevated permissions is almost certainly a red herring, and something bigger is likely being masked. I will take a look and see what is going on. Just give me some time, as I will need to set up a test environment first. -- Aaron Hill
Re: Lilypond not generating PDF
On 2022-07-04 5:49 pm, Aaron Hill wrote: On 2022-07-04 5:07 pm, Andrew Bernard wrote: I'm sorry, I don't understand this. Dragging test.ly on the desktop to the LilyPond icon on the desktop fails to produce the PDF output. Both on Windows 10 and 11. That is a different issue than the UAC drag-and-drop limitation that was mentioned. Elevated permissions is almost certainly a red herring, and something bigger is likely being masked. I will take a look and see what is going on. Just give me some time, as I will need to set up a test environment first. As expected, elevation is masking an underlying issue. The desktop shortcut is wrong. It specifies a start directory of "C:\Users\Public\Desktop" which is coincidently the location in which the shortcut is created. The public desktop is a special directory transparently replicated to all individual user desktops. By design, it does not offer write permission to users. LilyPond is failing to compile because it attempts to create a temporary file at that location. Open question: Why is LilyPond not using the %TEMP% directory for such things? Leaving the start directory field blank within the shortcut appears to fix things. -- Aaron Hill
Re: Lilypond not generating PDF
We are getting to the nub of it. When you save the test.ly file you have to save it to C:\Users\\Desktop not the default which is C:\Users\Public\Desktop. And make the start directory in the link C:\Users\\Desktop (making it blank did not work for me). Andrew
Re: Lilypond not generating PDF
On 2022-07-04 8:03 pm, Andrew Bernard wrote: We are getting to the nub of it. When you save the test.ly file you have to save it to C:\Users\\Desktop not the default which is C:\Users\Public\Desktop. And make the start directory in the link C:\Users\\Desktop [...] Nothing should ever be defaulting to the public desktop. Under normal operation, that folder will not have write permissions. In fact, it should be a hidden folder and not normally visible. Since users are able to remap their profile directory, a path like %userprofile%\Desktop would be better, however users with OneDrive enabled would find their desktop at %userprofile%\OneDrive\Desktop. (making it blank did not work for me) When I drag-and-drop a file onto a shortcut without a start directory, the current directory is getting set based on the file being dragged. I see the same behavior when dropping onto the target program itself. -- Aaron Hill
Re: Lilypond not generating PDF
From: Aaron Hill LilyPond does not require nor does it request elevation. I didn't think it did. But sometimes people change the priority of programs for reasons we may not realise. I merely pointed out that Windows has a way to prevent drag and drop working, in case this was (abnormally) the situation. Paul
Re: Lilypond not generating PDF
On 7/4/22 11:06, Jean Abou Samra wrote: Do you volunteer to go update the installation instructions for the new binaries (https://gitlab.com/lilypond/lilypond/-/issues/6310) and test them on Linux + macOS + Windows? That would be very welcome (no irony intended). Well, saying that actually gave me the motivation to do it :-) It doesn't solve this particular problem, though.
