Re: Problem with bar numbers
On Tue 14 Mar 2017 at 19:11:31 (+1100), Don Gingrich wrote:
> OK, I'll start by saying that I'm doing some things that
> are wrong as far as musical purists are concerned,
> but there *is* a reason.
>
> I'm typesetting scores for folk dance music sets.
> Typically, (but not exclusively) music for folk dance
> consists of an 8 bar 'A' part and an 8 bar 'B' part.
>
> It is often written with an anacrusis at the start of
> both the A and B parts. And the A part ends with
> a bar with the value of time - (A anacrusis)
> The B part may also start with its own anacrusis.
> The two anacrusii will almost always have the same
> duration and the final bar will be similar in duration
> to the A part ending.
>
> The reason that it gets written this way is that
> dances require varying numbers of bars of music.
> But always a multiple of the A/B part which is
> commonly 8 bars. To make things easier for the
> dancers, the tune may be played with different
> numbers of repetitions of the A and B parts.
> A good band will endeavour to finish a dance section
> at the end of the B part so that the new couple
> always begin on the first time through the A part
> of either the current tune or a new one.
>
> This also explains the AABBx2 markup
>
> So it breaks the rules of music theory, but there is
> a reason.
Not for me, it doesn't. But your tune does seem to have lost its first
note. People who know the dance will fall over after the first chord,
ie the zeroth, introductory chord.
At the end of your tunes, the fourth beat will be felt by the dancers,
either because the next tune will fill in the gap or, at the very end
of the dance, the silence before the final chord (bow and curtsey).
When there's a key change, you may need a modulating chord in the gap.
> I've translated XML files and they generally end up
> with sN*M to fill out the anacrusis and terminal
> bars. It works but it's ugly since it adds horizontal
> space that is unwanted. So I've been using
> \partial and copping the warnings since it looks
> better. (It's just the "programmer" in me that doesn't
> like code that "compiles" with warnings.)
>
> What would be nice is either an allowed alternative
> partial or a variant of the s code that says
> "ignore this many beats" .
>
> The other problem is that the bar numbers get
> screwed up with these anacrusii that aren't supposed
> to be there.
If you just set those tunes, you can just stick the volta
brackets round the tune with its anacrusis attached, but
as you intend to add chords, I've left the alternatives
in so that you can write any necessary chords that differ.
> If it were up to me, I'd re-number at the start of each tune,
> but I'm working to someone else's preferred appearance
> which he achieves with Finale. I'm getting close but
> the bar numbers are defeating me. I tried getting
> a number on every bar. and thought that I had the
> correct command in:
>
> \set Score.barNumberVisibility = #(every-nth-bar-number-visible 1)
>
> But I still only get numbers at the left side of the staff.
I've numbered all the bars but haven't attempted any double numbering;
something for the future. Yes, it's very strange to number different
tunes from other than bar 1.
> I thought about a bunch of big rests, but then there wouldn't
> have been as many bars. Sorry it's such a big example. It's
> actually 6 tunes across 2 pages with a D.S al Fine at the
> finish of the sixth one.
I must admit I don't understand the tune/AABB selection for Waves of
Tory. With only 32 bars, you've got nothing left for the actual waves
of the title; AABBAB would work (or longer tunes...)
Cheers,
David.
\version "2.18.2"
\header {
tagline = ""
}
\paper {
paper-width = 21.0\cm
paper-height = 29.7\cm
top-margin = 1.0\cm
bottom-margin = 1.\cm
left-margin = 1.0\cm
right-margin = 1.0\cm
indent = 0.0\mm
}
\layout {
\context {
\Score
\override BarNumber.break-visibility = #end-of-line-invisible
barNumberVisibility = #(every-nth-bar-number-visible 1)
}
}
PartOne = \relative c' {
\key d \major
\time 2/4
\mark \markup {\rounded-box {\large \bold A } }
\partial8 a'8 |
\repeat volta 2 {
fis8 a a b16 cis |
d8 d d e16 fis|
g fis e8 fis16 e d8 |
b8 a a16 b a g | \break
fis8 a a b16 cis|
d8 d d e16 fis |
g fis e8 fis16 e d8 |
}
\alternative{
{
b8 a a a
}
{
\set Score.currentBarNumber = #16
b8 a a e'
}
}
\break
\mark \markup {\rounded-box {\large \bold B } }
\repeat volta 2 {
fis8 a a fis |
e d d8. e16 |
fis8 a a fis |
e d e8. fis16 |\break
fis8 a a fis |
e d d e16 fis |
g fis e8 fis16[ e d8 ] |
}
\alternative{
{
b8 a a e'
}
{
\set Score.currentBarNumber = #32
b8 a a
\bar "|."
}
}
}
Re: Problem with bar numbers
"Andrew Bernard" writes: > Hi David, > > If I do that all the subsequent bar numbers have a 'b' appended. What's > happening here? Now _that_ may be a bug. > How do we unset the alternativeNumberingStyle, and why does it still > apply to bars that are not in a \aternative section? Bug? Can you cook up a smaller example here suitable for a regression test? -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
RE: Problem with bar numbers
Hi David, If I do that all the subsequent bar numbers have a 'b' appended. What's happening here? How do we unset the alternativeNumberingStyle, and why does it still apply to bars that are not in a \aternative section? Andrew -Original Message- From: David Kastrup [mailto:d...@gnu.org] Sent: Tuesday, 14 March 2017 11:45 PM To: Andrew Bernard Cc: 'Malte Meyn' ; 'lilypond-user Mailinglist' Subject: Re: Problem with bar numbers Your second alternative already fills a whole bar, so the \partial 8 _has_ to start in a new bar. You need to remove the final "s" in the second alternative. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Problem with bar numbers
"Andrew Bernard" writes: > HI Malte, > > Using 2.91.56, if you refer to the code I just posted for Don (trying > to be compact not repeating example in this email), if not making the > bar number invisible at the partial of the second half, it prints 4, > but Don wants it not to have a bar number at all. The NR says a > partial after the start of a piece won't throw a new bar number but > this does. It seems the second repeat is what causes that. Your second alternative already fills a whole bar, so the \partial 8 _has_ to start in a new bar. You need to remove the final "s" in the second alternative. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Stability of development versions - was Re: Problem with bar numbers
Hi All, What David has written is naturally true. But I just wanted to say that I have been using the progressive development versions for some years and as far as open source software goes I am compelled to say they are incredibly stable and reliable. I hammer lilypond with engraving really dense New Complexity scores all day long full time and I have only personally ever had one or perhaps two crashing bugs, each of which could be worked around, or were quickly fixed by the development team. I am full of nothing but praise for the development team. Their work is exceptional and we are most grateful. It is on this basis that I recommend people to upgrade from 2.18.2 to the newest. Yes, 2.18.2 is the designated stable release, but the dev. versions are of such high quality that it is almost too humble to call them unstable, and the advantages of all the marvellous new features outweigh, for me at least, the very low risk of crashing. And what is there to lose? If a development version crashes, go back to using 2.18.2. On 14 March 2017 at 21:35, David Kastrup wrote: > Uh, development versions most certainly _can_ crash and we had several > ones that did under fairly normal circumstances. Using development > versions you should be prepared to upgrade with some regularity. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
RE: Problem with bar numbers
HI Malte, Using 2.91.56, if you refer to the code I just posted for Don (trying to be compact not repeating example in this email), if not making the bar number invisible at the partial of the second half, it prints 4, but Don wants it not to have a bar number at all. The NR says a partial after the start of a piece won't throw a new bar number but this does. It seems the second repeat is what causes that. Andrew -Original Message- From: Malte Meyn [mailto:lilyp...@maltemeyn.de] Sent: Tuesday, 14 March 2017 11:14 PM To: Andrew Bernard Cc: lilypond-user Mailinglist Subject: Re: Problem with bar numbers Am 14.03.2017 um 11:30 schrieb Andrew Bernard: > I had a look into this for Don. The partial after a repeat throws a > new bar number, although it should not. Is there a way to control > this, or is it a defect? I don’t really understand what you mean. Which LilyPond version did you use? Which repeat do you refer to? In 2.18.2 bar 9 and 24 are counted twice (use \override Score.BarNumber.break-visibility = #end-of-line-invisible to reproduce); that is fixed in 2.19.56. I don’t see a new bar number where the old should be used. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Problem with bar numbers
Am 14.03.2017 um 11:30 schrieb Andrew Bernard: > I had a look into this for Don. The partial after a repeat throws a new > bar number, although it should not. Is there a way to control this, or > is it a defect? I don’t really understand what you mean. Which LilyPond version did you use? Which repeat do you refer to? In 2.18.2 bar 9 and 24 are counted twice (use \override Score.BarNumber.break-visibility = #end-of-line-invisible to reproduce); that is fixed in 2.19.56. I don’t see a new bar number where the old should be used. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Problem with bar numbers
Hi Don,
Here's a way to do it I believe, simplifying your sample.
I personally don't have any musical objections to this - it's perfectly
clear, and clarity of intent what I am always seeking. Musicians will read
this just fine I reckon.
Andrew
== snip
\version "2.19.56"
treble = {
\time 2/4
\set Score.alternativeNumberingStyle = #'numbers-with-letters
\repeat volta 2 {
c' d' e' d'
}
\alternative {
{ c'8 d' e' d' }
{ c'8 d' d' s }
}
\override Score.BarNumber.break-visibility = ##(#f #f #f)
\repeat volta 2 {
\partial 8
c'8
\override Score.BarNumber.break-visibility = ##(#t #t #t)
\set Score.currentBarNumber = #4
c'4 d'
e' d'
c'8 c' c'
}
}
\score {
\new Staff \treble
\layout {
\context {
\Score
\override BarNumber.break-visibility = ##(#t #t #t)
}
}
}
== snip
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Re: Problem with bar numbers
Am 14.03.2017 um 11:35 schrieb David Kastrup: >> Maybe you should use a newer (“unstable”/development version); 2.19.xx >> allows \partial after the start of a piece and handles bar numbers >> correctly. The development versions aren’t unstable in the sense that >> they will crash or damage your input files or something similarly bad >> but only that there is a new version every two (?) weeks; of course >> you don’t have to always use the very latest version but only upgrade >> if you want to use new features. > > Uh, development versions most certainly _can_ crash and we had several > ones that did under fairly normal circumstances. Using development > versions you should be prepared to upgrade with some regularity. Well, they *can*, my generalization wasn’t totally correct. But I think it’s mostly safe to use them if you want these new features; I’ve used several 2.19.xx versions in the past three years and had only two crashes which also occured in 2.18 when I lacked RAM for the page breaking of huge scores ;) So yes, sometimes you might have to upgrade but for most use cases it won’t be necessary to upgrade very often. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Problem with bar numbers
Malte Meyn writes: > Am 14.03.2017 um 09:11 schrieb Don Gingrich: >> OK, I'll start by saying that I'm doing some things that >> are wrong as far as musical purists are concerned, >> but there *is* a reason. >> >> […] >> >> So it breaks the rules of music theory, but there is >> a reason. > > If I understand correctly: No, it doesn’t break the rules of music > theory. It’s totally correct (and almost always a must-have!) to have > the last bar shortened by the length of the anacrusis. > >> space that is unwanted. So I've been using >> \partial and copping the warnings since it looks >> better. (It's just the "programmer" in me that doesn't >> like code that "compiles" with warnings.) > > Maybe you should use a newer (“unstable”/development version); 2.19.xx > allows \partial after the start of a piece and handles bar numbers > correctly. The development versions aren’t unstable in the sense that > they will crash or damage your input files or something similarly bad > but only that there is a new version every two (?) weeks; of course > you don’t have to always use the very latest version but only upgrade > if you want to use new features. Uh, development versions most certainly _can_ crash and we had several ones that did under fairly normal circumstances. Using development versions you should be prepared to upgrade with some regularity. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Problem with bar numbers
Hi Don,
2017-03-14 9:11 GMT+01:00 Don Gingrich :
> OK, I'll start by saying that I'm doing some things that
> are wrong as far as musical purists are concerned,
> but there *is* a reason.
>
> I'm typesetting scores for folk dance music sets.
> Typically, (but not exclusively) music for folk dance
> consists of an 8 bar 'A' part and an 8 bar 'B' part.
>
> It is often written with an anacrusis at the start of
> both the A and B parts. And the A part ends with
> a bar with the value of time - (A anacrusis)
> The B part may also start with its own anacrusis.
> The two anacrusii will almost always have the same
> duration and the final bar will be similar in duration
> to the A part ending.
>
> The reason that it gets written this way is that
> dances require varying numbers of bars of music.
> But always a multiple of the A/B part which is
> commonly 8 bars. To make things easier for the
> dancers, the tune may be played with different
> numbers of repetitions of the A and B parts.
> A good band will endeavour to finish a dance section
> at the end of the B part so that the new couple
> always begin on the first time through the A part
> of either the current tune or a new one.
>
> This also explains the AABBx2 markup
>
> So it breaks the rules of music theory, but there is
> a reason.
>
> I've translated XML files and they generally end up
> with sN*M to fill out the anacrusis and terminal
> bars. It works but it's ugly since it adds horizontal
> space that is unwanted. So I've been using
> \partial and copping the warnings since it looks
> better. (It's just the "programmer" in me that doesn't
> like code that "compiles" with warnings.)
>
> What would be nice is either an allowed alternative
> partial or a variant of the s code that says
> "ignore this many beats" .
>
> The other problem is that the bar numbers get
> screwed up with these anacrusii that aren't supposed
> to be there.
>
> If it were up to me, I'd re-number at the start of each tune,
> but I'm working to someone else's preferred appearance
> which he achieves with Finale. I'm getting close but
> the bar numbers are defeating me. I tried getting
> a number on every bar. and thought that I had the
> correct command in:
>
> \set Score.barNumberVisibility = #(every-nth-bar-number-visible 1)
The correct way is to override BarNumber.break-visibility, preferable in layout:
\layout {
\context {
\Score
\override BarNumber.break-visibility = ##(#f #t #t)
}
}
> But I still only get numbers at the left side of the staff.
>
> I thought about a bunch of big rests, but then there wouldn't
> have been as many bars. Sorry it's such a big example. It's
> actually 6 tunes across 2 pages with a D.S al Fine at the
> finish of the sixth one.
Well, I didn't understand what you want instead.
Maybe play with
\set Timing.measureLength = #(ly:make-moment )
See NR for examples.
Cheers,
Harm
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Re: Problem with bar numbers
Hi Malte, I had a look into this for Don. The partial after a repeat throws a new bar number, although it should not. Is there a way to control this, or is it a defect? Andrew ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Problem with bar numbers
Am 14.03.2017 um 09:11 schrieb Don Gingrich:
> OK, I'll start by saying that I'm doing some things that
> are wrong as far as musical purists are concerned,
> but there *is* a reason.
>
> […]
>
> So it breaks the rules of music theory, but there is
> a reason.
If I understand correctly: No, it doesn’t break the rules of music
theory. It’s totally correct (and almost always a must-have!) to have
the last bar shortened by the length of the anacrusis.
> space that is unwanted. So I've been using
> \partial and copping the warnings since it looks
> better. (It's just the "programmer" in me that doesn't
> like code that "compiles" with warnings.)
Maybe you should use a newer (“unstable”/development version); 2.19.xx
allows \partial after the start of a piece and handles bar numbers
correctly. The development versions aren’t unstable in the sense that
they will crash or damage your input files or something similarly bad
but only that there is a new version every two (?) weeks; of course you
don’t have to always use the very latest version but only upgrade if you
want to use new features.
> The other problem is that the bar numbers get
> screwed up with these anacrusii that aren't supposed
> to be there.
I don’t think LilyPond does anything wrong here. Anacruses aren’t
counted as bars. Maybe you don’t want the two alternatives counted as
two bars? This can be prevented by
\set Score.alternativeNumberingStyle = #'numbers
(you might prefer … = #'numbers-with-letters).
> If it were up to me, I'd re-number at the start of each tune,
> but I'm working to someone else's preferred appearance
> which he achieves with Finale. I'm getting close but
> the bar numbers are defeating me. I tried getting
> a number on every bar. and thought that I had the
> correct command in:
>
> \set Score.barNumberVisibility = #(every-nth-bar-number-visible 1)
>
> But I still only get numbers at the left side of the staff.
Try
\override Score.BarNumber.break-visibility = #end-of-line-invisible
instead.
Put both of the commands above in a \layout block outside of the
\scores; then they’ll affect (or effect? I don’t know) all scores:
\layout {
\context {
\Score
\override BarNumber.break-visibility = #end-of-line-invisible
alternativeNumberingStyle = #'numbers-with-letters
}
}
The \score blocks then simply look like this (after removing unneeded
contexts and stuff):
\score {
<<
\new ChordNames \PartOneChords
\new Staff \PartOne
>>
\layout { }
\midi { }
}
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