RE: tie across voices

[Mark Stephen Mrotek]

Timothy,

Thank you, exactly what I wanted.

Mark
-Original Message-
From: lilypond-user
[mailto:lilypond-user-bounces+carsonmark=ca.rr@gnu.org] On Behalf Of
Timothy Lanfear
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 2:07 PM
To: lilypond-user@gnu.org
Subject: Re: tie across voices

On 23/12/2018 21:35, Mark Stephen Mrotek wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> Please see attached snippet.
>
> In measure 3 the two e flats should be tied.
>
> I have looked at using transparent as given in
>
> http://lsr.di.unimi.it/LSR/Snippet?id=8
>
> yet that would “collide” with the quarter rest.
>
> Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
>
>
How about this?

\version "2.19.81"

{
   \time 6/8
   \clef "bass"
   <<
     \new Voice \relative c {
   \voiceOne
   bes8-5 bes'-1 d-2~ d8 c-1 bes-2 |
   c4. r4 f,8-2 |
   g4. s4.
   d4. s |
     }
     \new Voice \relative c' {
   \voiceTwo
   s4. r4 g8-4~ |
   g f-5 aes-2~ aes g-1 d-4~ |
   d c ees-3^~ \stemUp ees8 d^1 c^2 \stemNeutral  |
     }
     \new Voice \relative c {
   \voiceFour
   s2.*2 |
   s4. r4 a8-4~ |
   a g bes'-1~ bes a-2 g-3 |
     }
   >>
}

\relative c' {
   \time 6/8
   \clef bass
   <<
     {
   bes,8-5 bes'-1 d-2~ d8 c-1 bes-2 |
   c4. r4 f,8-2 | g4. ees8 d-1 c-2 | d4. s |
     } \\
     {
   s4. r4 g8-4~ |
   g f-5 aes-2~ aes g-1 d-4~ |
   d c ees-3  r4 a,8-4~ |
   a g bes'-1~ bes a-2 g-3 |
     }
   >>
}


-- 
Timothy Lanfear, Bristol, UK.


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RE: tie across voices

[Mark Stephen Mrotek]

Jay,

 

Beautiful, and it preserves the voice leading!

Thank you!

 

Mark

 

From: Jay Anderson [mailto:horndud...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 3:11 PM
To: Mark Stephen Mrotek 
Cc: lilypond-user 
Subject: Re: tie across voices

 

On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 2:40 PM Mark Stephen Mrotek mailto:carsonm...@ca.rr.com> > wrote:

Please see attached snippet.

In measure 3 the two e flats should be tied.

I have looked at using transparent as given in 

http://lsr.di.unimi.it/LSR/Snippet?id=8

yet that would “collide” with the quarter rest.

 

My favorite way to deal with this is to switch the voices.

 

=

\score {

  \relative c' {

\time 6/8

\clef bass

<<

  \new Voice {

\voiceOne

bes,8-5 bes'-1 d-2~ d8 c-1 bes-2 |

c4. r4 f,8-2 |

g4.

\voiceTwo

r4 a,8-4~ |

a g bes'-1~ bes a-2 g-3 |

  }

  \new Voice {

\voiceTwo

s4. r4 g8-4~ |

g f-5 aes-2~ aes g-1 d-4~ |

d c ees-3~

\voiceOne

ees8 d-1 c-2 |

d4. s |

  }

>>

\oneVoice

  }

}

=

 

There's also the spanner-id, but I don't believe that works for ties.

 

-Jay

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Re: tie across voices

[Jay Anderson]

On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 2:40 PM Mark Stephen Mrotek 
wrote:

> Please see attached snippet.
>
> In measure 3 the two e flats should be tied.
>
> I have looked at using transparent as given in
>
> http://lsr.di.unimi.it/LSR/Snippet?id=8
>
> yet that would “collide” with the quarter rest.
>

My favorite way to deal with this is to switch the voices.

=
\score {
  \relative c' {
\time 6/8
\clef bass
<<
  \new Voice {
\voiceOne
bes,8-5 bes'-1 d-2~ d8 c-1 bes-2 |
c4. r4 f,8-2 |
g4.
\voiceTwo
r4 a,8-4~ |
a g bes'-1~ bes a-2 g-3 |
  }
  \new Voice {
\voiceTwo
s4. r4 g8-4~ |
g f-5 aes-2~ aes g-1 d-4~ |
d c ees-3~
\voiceOne
ees8 d-1 c-2 |
d4. s |
  }
>>
\oneVoice
  }
}
=

There's also the spanner-id, but I don't believe that works for ties.

-Jay
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Re: tie across voices

[Timothy Lanfear]

On 23/12/2018 21:35, Mark Stephen Mrotek wrote:


Hello,

Please see attached snippet.

In measure 3 the two e flats should be tied.

I have looked at using transparent as given in

http://lsr.di.unimi.it/LSR/Snippet?id=8

yet that would “collide” with the quarter rest.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.



How about this?

\version "2.19.81"

{
  \time 6/8
  \clef "bass"
  <<
    \new Voice \relative c {
  \voiceOne
  bes8-5 bes'-1 d-2~ d8 c-1 bes-2 |
  c4. r4 f,8-2 |
  g4. s4.
  d4. s |
    }
    \new Voice \relative c' {
  \voiceTwo
  s4. r4 g8-4~ |
  g f-5 aes-2~ aes g-1 d-4~ |
  d c ees-3^~ \stemUp ees8 d^1 c^2 \stemNeutral  |
    }
    \new Voice \relative c {
  \voiceFour
  s2.*2 |
  s4. r4 a8-4~ |
  a g bes'-1~ bes a-2 g-3 |
    }
  >>
}

\relative c' {
  \time 6/8
  \clef bass
  <<
    {
  bes,8-5 bes'-1 d-2~ d8 c-1 bes-2 |
  c4. r4 f,8-2 | g4. ees8 d-1 c-2 | d4. s |
    } \\
    {
  s4. r4 g8-4~ |
  g f-5 aes-2~ aes g-1 d-4~ |
  d c ees-3  r4 a,8-4~ |
  a g bes'-1~ bes a-2 g-3 |
    }
  >>
}


--
Timothy Lanfear, Bristol, UK.


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Re: tie across voices

[Aaron Hill]

On 2018-12-23 1:35 pm, Mark Stephen Mrotek wrote:

In measure 3 the two e flats should be tied.

I have looked at using transparent as given in

http://lsr.di.unimi.it/LSR/Snippet?id=8

yet that would "collide" with the quarter rest.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


It's not perfect, but \laissezVibrer (instead of ~) on the first E flat 
might work.


-- Aaron Hill

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Re: {SPAM 04.7} Re: {SPAM 01.9} Re: Tie across voices

[David Kastrup]

David Sumbler  writes:

> The automatic creation of contexts is obviously very useful, especially
> when one is just a beginner at Lilypond.  But I almost wish that there
> were an option to turn it off, which would be useful for forcing
> oneself to understand how this all actually works!

If there are no contexts created automatically, the user has to
accommodate every element and relation of the context hierarchy.  That
makes stuff like introducing intermediate contexts into the hierarchy
much harder than it should be.

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: {SPAM 04.7} Re: {SPAM 01.9} Re: Tie across voices

[David Sumbler]

On Fri, 2018-05-04 at 23:55 +0200, Simon Albrecht wrote:
> On 04.05.2018 19:23, David Sumbler wrote:
> > 
> > It seems that if, in a
> > <<{\musicA} {\musicB}>>
> > passage, \musicA does not specify a new Voice, then the music
> > before
> > the << >> passage and, importantly, also the music afterwards will
> > all
> > be treated as belonging to the same voice.  Is that correct?
> Have a look at this example:
> 
> 
> \version "2.19.80"
> 
> <<
>    c
>    c
>  >>
> 
> \new Staff
> <<
>    c
>    c
>  >>
> 
> \new Staff
> <<
>    c
>    \\
>    c
>  >>
> 
> \new Staff
> \new Voice
> <<
>    c
>    c
>  >>
> 
> 
> resulting in the attached output.
> <<>> just combines music expressions simultaneously. Depending on
> which 
> contexts are explicitly created, separate implicit contexts will be 
> created or not.
> 
> Best,
> Simon

I have always found the implicit creation of contexts etc. rather
confusing, which is why I have been inclined to define the higher
elements of the structure explicitly.  I used even to have completely
unnecessary \bookpart-s etc. but I try to avoid that sort of thing now.
 On the other hand, I suppose I have rather tended to take the implicit
creation of Voices for granted.  Especially in the light of your
example, I am starting to think that perhaps I should make it a policy
always to define Voices explicitly.

As it is, I found your example quite hard to understand, and I dare say
I am not alone in that.  However, having experimented with it quite a
bit, I now see (I think) that:

Example 1: here the << informs Lilypond that what follows is music, but
the Staff and Voice themselves are created by each of the simultaneous
'c's, which otherwise have nowhere to go.

Example 2: here a Staff has already been created, so the simultaneous
notes already have somewhere to go and therefore appear on to the same
Staff.  I think that they each individually create a voice, since they
have separate stems and because of the warning that Lilypond gives.
 Both voices seem to have voiceOne style, presumably since nothing else
has been specified; Lilypond is therefore protesting about the
resulting collision.

Example 3: The << \\ >> construct causes each of the simultaneous notes
to have its own voice, specifically voiceOne and voiceTwo.  If I add
another \\ section the contents go into voiceThree etc.  Is that
correct?

Example 4: Here a voice is explicitly defined, and therefore Lilypond
understands that the simultaneous notes both have to go into that one
voice, rather than creating new ones: hence the doubled notehead on a
single stem.  If I add a third note at the same pitch, no more
noteheads are produced, but surprisingly Lilypond does not give a
warning.

Have I understood all of this correctly?  Sorry if this all seems
elementary, especially since I have been using Lilypond on and off for
several years.

The automatic creation of contexts is obviously very useful, especially
when one is just a beginner at Lilypond.  But I almost wish that there
were an option to turn it off, which would be useful for forcing
oneself to understand how this all actually works!

David

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Re: {SPAM 01.9} Re: Tie across voices

[Simon Albrecht]

On 04.05.2018 19:23, David Sumbler wrote:

It seems that if, in a
<<{\musicA} {\musicB}>>
passage, \musicA does not specify a new Voice, then the music before
the << >> passage and, importantly, also the music afterwards will all
be treated as belonging to the same voice.  Is that correct?


Have a look at this example:


\version "2.19.80"

<<
  c
  c
>>

\new Staff
<<
  c
  c
>>

\new Staff
<<
  c
  \\
  c
>>

\new Staff
\new Voice
<<
  c
  c
>>


resulting in the attached output.
<<>> just combines music expressions simultaneously. Depending on which 
contexts are explicitly created, separate implicit contexts will be 
created or not.


Best,
Simon
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Re: {SPAM 01.9} Re: Tie across voices

[David Sumbler]

On Thu, 2018-05-03 at 18:43 +0200, Lukas-Fabian Moser wrote:
> Hi David,
> 
> Am 03.05.2018 um 18:29 schrieb David Sumbler:
> > 
> > \version "2.19.81"
> > 
> > \new Staff {
> >    \time 6/8
> >    <<
> >  { \once \override MultiMeasureRest.staff-position = #10
> >    R2. | r4. e'''~ }
> >  \\
> >  { g''2.~ | g''~ }
> >    >>
> >   \oneVoice 2.~ | q |
> > }
> > 
> One possibility would be:
> 
> \version "2.19.81"
> 
> \new Staff {
>    \time 6/8
>    <<
>  { \once \override MultiMeasureRest.staff-position = #10
>    R2. | r4. e'''~ \hideNotes e'''2. }
>  \\
>  { g''2.~ | g''~
>    \oneVoice 2.~ | q |
>  }
>    >>
> }
> 
> If you don't want to continue inside a << \\ >> construct, try
> 
> \version "2.19.81"
> 
> \new Staff {
>    \time 6/8
>    <<
>  {
>    \voiceTwo g''2.~ | g''~
>  }
>  \new Voice {
>    \voiceOne \once \override MultiMeasureRest.staff-position =
> #10
>    R2. | r4. e'''~ \hideNotes e'''2.*0
>  }
>    >>
>    \oneVoice 2.~ | q |
> }
> 
> Explanation: << { } \\ { } >> is a shorthand which creates two new 
> (named) voices. Just taking << { } \new Voice { } >> makes sure the 
> first { } pair creates music in the "main" voice which is active
> outside 
> the << >>.

Thank you all for your suggestions.  I realise now that my original
request was unclear: I need both the upper and the lower notes to be
tied.

The second solution above seems to fit the bill perfectly.  It will be
very useful immediately, because in this passage of music there are
similar divisi sustained notes (but with different entry timings) also
in the 2nd violins, violas and cellos.

I hadn't hit on the idea of tying the note to another one of zero
length; very ingenious and worth remembering.

Just to clarify:

It seems that if, in a
<<{\musicA} {\musicB}>>
passage, \musicA does not specify a new Voice, then the music before
the << >> passage and, importantly, also the music afterwards will all
be treated as belonging to the same voice.  Is that correct?

David



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Re: Tie across voices

[Knute Snortum]

On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 9:30 AM David Sumbler  wrote:

> \version "2.19.81"
>
> \new Staff {
>   \time 6/8
>   <<
> { \once \override MultiMeasureRest.staff-position = #10
>   R2. | r4. e'''~ }
> \\
> { g''2.~ | g''~ }
>   >>
>  \oneVoice 2.~ | q |
> }
>
> In the above I want the lower note to be tied continuously.  As it
> stands, there is no tie between the 2nd and 3rd bars where the 2 voices
> become one.
>
> I have experimented a lot with invisible notes (as suggested in section
> 4.7.1 in the Learning Manual) and with additional voices, but I haven't
> yet managed to get the result I want.
>
> This is taken from a full score where the violins are divisi.  The
> notes continue for a further 10 bars, so I don't want to continue with
> up and down stems, which would look very untidy.
>
> Can somebody suggest how I can get the effect I want?


One more example:

%%%
\version "2.19.81"

\new Staff {
  \time 6/8
  <<
{ \once \override MultiMeasureRest.staff-position = #10
  R2. | r4. e'''~ }
\\
{ g''2.~ | g''~ }
  >>
 \context Voice = "2" \oneVoice 2.~ | q |
}
%%%

This works because <<{...}\\{...}>> is short for:

<<
  \context Voice = "1" { \voiceOne ... }
  \context Voice = "2" { \voiceTwo ... }
>>

---
Knute Snortum
(via Gmail)
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Re: Tie across voices

[David Kastrup]

David Sumbler  writes:

> \version "2.19.81"
>
> \new Staff {
>   \time 6/8 
>   <<
> { \once \override MultiMeasureRest.staff-position = #10
>   R2. | r4. e'''~ }
> \\
> { g''2.~ | g''~ }
>   >>
>  \oneVoice 2.~ | q |
> }
>
> In the above I want the lower note to be tied continuously.  As it
> stands, there is no tie between the 2nd and 3rd bars where the 2 voices
> become one.
>
> I have experimented a lot with invisible notes (as suggested in section
> 4.7.1 in the Learning Manual) and with additional voices, but I haven't
> yet managed to get the result I want.
>
> This is taken from a full score where the violins are divisi.  The
> notes continue for a further 10 bars, so I don't want to continue with
> up and down stems, which would look very untidy.
>
> Can somebody suggest how I can get the effect I want?

\version "2.19.81"

\new Voice = "main" {
  \time 6/8
  \voices 1,"main"
  <<
{ \once \override MultiMeasureRest.staff-position = #10
  R2. | r4. e'''~ }
\\
{ \voiceTwo g''2.~ | g''~ }
  >>
 \oneVoice 2.~ | q |
}


-- 
David Kastrup
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Re: Tie across voices

[Lukas-Fabian Moser]

Hi David,

Am 03.05.2018 um 18:29 schrieb David Sumbler:

\version "2.19.81"

\new Staff {
   \time 6/8
   <<
 { \once \override MultiMeasureRest.staff-position = #10
   R2. | r4. e'''~ }
 \\
 { g''2.~ | g''~ }
   >>
  \oneVoice 2.~ | q |
}



One possibility would be:

\version "2.19.81"

\new Staff {
  \time 6/8
  <<
    { \once \override MultiMeasureRest.staff-position = #10
  R2. | r4. e'''~ \hideNotes e'''2. }
    \\
    { g''2.~ | g''~
  \oneVoice 2.~ | q |
    }
  >>
}

If you don't want to continue inside a << \\ >> construct, try

\version "2.19.81"

\new Staff {
  \time 6/8
  <<
    {
  \voiceTwo g''2.~ | g''~
    }
    \new Voice {
  \voiceOne \once \override MultiMeasureRest.staff-position = #10
  R2. | r4. e'''~ \hideNotes e'''2.*0
    }
  >>
  \oneVoice 2.~ | q |
}

Explanation: << { } \\ { } >> is a shorthand which creates two new 
(named) voices. Just taking << { } \new Voice { } >> makes sure the 
first { } pair creates music in the "main" voice which is active outside 
the << >>.


Best
Lukas

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RE: Tie across voices

[Joseph N. Srednicki]

Thanks, Nathan.

Your solution worked perfectly.

Joe Srednicki

-Original Message-
From: Nathan Ho [mailto:nat...@snappizz.com] 
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2016 10:42 PM
To: Joseph N. Srednicki <jnsredni...@verizon.net>
Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org; lilypond-user-bounces+nathan=snappizz@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Tie across voices

On 2016-02-12 15:37, Joseph N. Srednicki wrote:
> In the following three-beat example, I am trying to tie the 
> upper-voice note in the second beat with the lower-voice note of the 
> third beat.
> 
> My example seems to work somewhat, but the notes of the upper and 
> lower voices of the second and third beats do not align vertically as 
> they should.
> 
> Can someone please explain how to align the upper and lower voices in 
> the second and third beats or another approach to the problem of 
> coding the tie across voices?
> 
> I tried using \shiftOn to align the voices, but I was unsuccessful.
> 
> I used Google to search and found the snippet located at
> http://lsr.di.unimi.it/LSR/Snippet?id=8 [1]. I tried to follow this 
> snippet as an example.

Hi Joseph,

Here's how you fix the shifting problem:

\language "english"

\relative c' {\key d\major
   \time 3/8
   <<
 { fs8 b d }
 \\
 { cs,8 es b' }
 \\
 {
   \override NoteColumn.force-hshift = #0
   \hideNotes
   s8 b8~ b8
 }
   >>
}


Nathan


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Re: Tie across voices

[Nathan Ho]

On 2016-02-12 15:37, Joseph N. Srednicki wrote:

In the following three-beat example, I am trying to tie the
upper-voice note in the second beat with the lower-voice note of the
third beat.

My example seems to work somewhat, but the notes of the upper and
lower voices of the second and third beats do not align vertically as
they should.

Can someone please explain how to align the upper and lower voices in
the second and third beats or another approach to the problem of
coding the tie across voices?

I tried using \shiftOn to align the voices, but I was unsuccessful.

I used Google to search and found the snippet located at
http://lsr.di.unimi.it/LSR/Snippet?id=8 [1]. I tried to follow this
snippet as an example.


Hi Joseph,

Here's how you fix the shifting problem:

\language "english"

\relative c' {\key d\major
  \time 3/8
  <<
{ fs8 b d }
\\
{ cs,8 es b' }
\\
{
  \override NoteColumn.force-hshift = #0
  \hideNotes
  s8 b8~ b8
}
  >>
}


Nathan

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