Re: Time signatures ¢¢ and cc
Does anyone know how to reduce the spacing between glyphs in these
custom time signatures? I’ve tried overriding word-space. I’ve tried
\translate. Neither had the desired effect. Thanks.
--
Dan
\version 2.18.0
timeTwoOne = {
\once \override Staff.TimeSignature.stencil =
#(lambda (grob)
(grob-interpret-markup grob
#{ \markup { \musicglyph #timesig.C22 \musicglyph #timesig.C22 } #}))
\time 2/1
}
timeFourTwo = {
\once \override Staff.TimeSignature.stencil =
#(lambda (grob)
(grob-interpret-markup grob
#{ \markup { \musicglyph #timesig.C44 \musicglyph #timesig.C44 } #}))
\time 4/2
}
\relative c' {
\timeTwoOne c\breve
\time 2/2 c1
\timeFourTwo c\breve
\time 4/4 c1
}
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Re: Time signatures ¢¢ and cc
Does anyone know how to reduce the spacing between glyphs in these
custom time signatures?
\version 2.18.0
timeTwoOne = {
\once \override Staff.TimeSignature.stencil =
#(lambda (grob)
(grob-interpret-markup grob
#{ \markup \concat { \musicglyph #timesig.C22 \musicglyph #timesig.C22
} #}))
\time 2/1
}
timeFourTwo = {
\once \override Staff.TimeSignature.stencil =
#(lambda (grob)
(grob-interpret-markup grob
#{ \markup \concat { \musicglyph #timesig.C44 \musicglyph #timesig.C44
} #}))
\time 4/2
}
\relative c' {
\timeTwoOne c\breve
\time 2/2 c1
\timeFourTwo c\breve
\time 4/4 c1
}
Hope this helps!
Kieren.
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Kieren MacMillan, composer
www: http://www.kierenmacmillan.info
email: i...@kierenmacmillan.info
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Re: Time signatures ¢¢ and cc
Dan Eble nine.fierce.ball...@gmail.com writes:
Does anyone know how to reduce the spacing between glyphs in these
custom time signatures? I’ve tried overriding word-space. I’ve tried
\translate. Neither had the desired effect. Thanks.
\version 2.18.0
timeTwoOne = {
\once \override Staff.TimeSignature.stencil =
#(lambda (grob)
(grob-interpret-markup grob
#{ \markup \concat { \musicglyph #timesig.C22 \musicglyph
#timesig.C22 } #}))
\time 2/1
}
timeFourTwo = {
\once \override Staff.TimeSignature.stencil =
#(lambda (grob)
(grob-interpret-markup grob
#{ \markup \concat { \musicglyph #timesig.C44 \musicglyph #timesig.C44
} #}))
\time 4/2
}
\relative c' {
\timeTwoOne c\breve
\time 2/2 c1
\timeFourTwo c\breve
\time 4/4 c1
}
--
David Kastrup
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Re: Time signatures ¢¢ and cc
On Oct 18, 2014, at 14:48 , Kieren MacMillan kieren_macmil...@sympatico.ca
wrote:
Does anyone know how to reduce the spacing between glyphs in these
custom time signatures?
#{ \markup \concat { \musicglyph #timesig.C22 \musicglyph
#timesig.C22 } #}))
Hope this helps!
Lovely! Thank you! And with just a little space it’s even better:
\version 2.18.0
timeTwoOne = {
\once \override Staff.TimeSignature.stencil =
#(lambda (grob)
(grob-interpret-markup grob
#{ \markup \concat {
\musicglyph #timesig.C22
\hspace #0.25
\musicglyph #timesig.C22 } #}))
\time 2/1
}
timeFourTwo = {
\once \override Staff.TimeSignature.stencil =
#(lambda (grob)
(grob-interpret-markup grob
#{ \markup \concat {
\musicglyph #timesig.C44
\hspace #0.25
\musicglyph #timesig.C44 } #}))
\time 4/2
}
\relative c' {
\timeTwoOne c\breve
\time 2/2 c1
\timeFourTwo c\breve
\time 4/4 c1
}
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Re: Time signatures ¢¢ and cc
At least Viennese, right? Plus, they're only perfect in tempus, but have minor prolation (duple subdivision; besides, they aren't Medieval mensural music anyways). On Sep 26, 2014, at 9:30 PM, Shane Brandes sh...@grayskies.net wrote: Waltzes are only sort of in 3/4 time. If you play them properly. Shane On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 10:23 AM, Conor Cook conor.p.c...@gmail.com wrote: Remember (if it was ever pointed out), perfection in this case means simply completeness. God is complete (perfect) in Himself, people are incomplete (imperfect). According to Church theology, at least. Maybe we are just especially aware of our incompleteness these days. Or we simply prefer music that describes ourselves as a society. What’s that say about waltzes? Hmm… As for the actual content of Dan's original email, I got nothing. ~Conor From: Martin Tarenskeen m.tarensk...@gmail.com Subject: Re: Time signatures ¢¢ and cc Date: September 26, 2014 at 8:27:53 AM CDT To: Simon Albrecht simon.albre...@mail.de Cc: Dan Eble nine.fierce.ball...@gmail.com, lilypond-user@gnu.org Reply-To: Martin Tarenskeen m.tarensk...@zonnet.nl On Fri, 26 Sep 2014, Simon Albrecht wrote: Now the interpretation and history of the various time signatures derived in some way from mensural notation is a complex issue, as is the disambiguation of c and cut c. One of the things I remember from my music Theory and History classes is that C had not much to do with the letter C but was in fact half of a circle. The Circle O was used when there were 3 beats in a measure, the Tempus Perfectum, 3 being the Holy number: God, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. In contrast the human 4/4 time was Imperfectum - just the half of a circle, making it look like the letter C. Listening to the Radio and Spotify, where 99% of the music is in 4/4 time, I am afraid God is not in a winning mood these days ;-) -- MT ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Time signatures ¢¢ and cc
On Sep 26, 2014, at 08:20 , Simon Albrecht simon.albre...@mail.de wrote:
Am 26.09.2014 um 04:10 schrieb Dan Eble:
I have a hymnal in which many songs have time signatures with symbols
cc and ¢¢ [doubled cut-time symbol]. I can't find any information on
these online. Does anyone know what they actually mean? Were they
common historically, or is this hymnal just using them ad hoc?
My hypothesis based on the context and the feeling of the songs as they
are usually sung is that ¢¢ is 4/2 (i.e. 2/2 + 2/2) and cc is a misprint.
(cc appears very rarely.)
I don’t think either of them is a misprint. The double cut c time signature
occurs in Schubert, op. 90, no. 4 (see
http://imslp.org/wiki/Special:ImagefromIndex/00364, page 15) for example,
and I do recall having seen double c in a similar kind of music also, so this
kind of time signature has been in use historically: apparently mostly during
the early 19th century.
Now the interpretation and history of the various time signatures derived in
some way from mensural notation is a complex issue, as is the disambiguation
of c and cut c. There are numerous historical dependencies, some
controversially discussed, and I don’t think it’s the music typographer’s job
to make any judgement. In any case, both the double time signatures you
describe add up to a measure length of 4/2, only the musical meaning may
subtly differ.
Thanks. That’s very helpful information (it’s No. 3 though). I’m now more
inclined to consider ¢¢ as 2/1 and cc as 4/2. (I am also rather puzzled to
find that my hymnal also has a song in 4/2. I’m not willing to give up the
idea that there were a few lapses of editing.)
Since these time signatures are not available by default in Lilypond, I found
the following way to get them. They’re not quite as nice as in the Schubert
score. I think I’d need to change the spacing between the glyphs if I were
going to use these.
—
Dan
\version 2.18.0
timeTwoOne = {
\once \override Staff.TimeSignature.stencil =
#(lambda (grob)
(grob-interpret-markup grob
#{ \markup { \musicglyph #timesig.C22 \musicglyph #timesig.C22 } #}))
\time 2/1
}
timeFourTwo = {
\once \override Staff.TimeSignature.stencil =
#(lambda (grob)
(grob-interpret-markup grob
#{ \markup { \musicglyph #timesig.C44 \musicglyph #timesig.C44 } #}))
\time 4/2
}
\relative c' {
\timeTwoOne c\breve
\time 2/2 c1
\timeFourTwo c\breve
\time 4/4 c1
}
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Re: Time signatures ¢¢ and cc
Am 26.09.2014 um 04:10 schrieb Dan Eble: I have a hymnal in which many songs have time signatures with symbols cc and ¢¢ [doubled cut-time symbol]. I can't find any information on these online. Does anyone know what they actually mean? Were they common historically, or is this hymnal just using them ad hoc? My hypothesis based on the context and the feeling of the songs as they are usually sung is that ¢¢ is 4/2 (i.e. 2/2 + 2/2) and cc is a misprint. (cc appears very rarely.) I don’t think either of them is a misprint. The double cut c time signature occurs in Schubert, op. 90, no. 4 (see http://imslp.org/wiki/Special:ImagefromIndex/00364, page 15) for example, and I do recall having seen double c in a similar kind of music also, so this kind of time signature has been in use historically: apparently mostly during the early 19th century. Now the interpretation and history of the various time signatures derived in some way from mensural notation is a complex issue, as is the disambiguation of c and cut c. There are numerous historical dependencies, some controversially discussed, and I don’t think it’s the music typographer’s job to make any judgement. In any case, both the double time signatures you describe add up to a measure length of 4/2, only the musical meaning may subtly differ. HTH, Simon ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Time signatures ¢¢ and cc
On Fri, 26 Sep 2014, Simon Albrecht wrote: Now the interpretation and history of the various time signatures derived in some way from mensural notation is a complex issue, as is the disambiguation of c and cut c. One of the things I remember from my music Theory and History classes is that C had not much to do with the letter C but was in fact half of a circle. The Circle O was used when there were 3 beats in a measure, the Tempus Perfectum, 3 being the Holy number: God, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. In contrast the human 4/4 time was Imperfectum - just the half of a circle, making it look like the letter C. Listening to the Radio and Spotify, where 99% of the music is in 4/4 time, I am afraid God is not in a winning mood these days ;-) -- MT ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Little correction and a question Re: Time signatures ¢¢ and cc
Hello list, hello Simon,, thank's for that, just a little correction: You wrote: The double cut c time signature occurs in Schubert, op. 90, no. 4 It's definitely Schubert, op. 90, no. 3 instead of Schubert, op. 90, no. 4 disambiguation of c and cut c. There are numerous historical dependencies, some controversially discussed, [ ... ] Because of actually asking a pupil of mine about the difference of both: Do you have some links to some controversially discussions? Many thanks. Best Regards Roland ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
winning mood Re: Time signatures ¢¢ and cc
Hello list, hello Martin, You wrote: One of the things I remember from my music Theory and History classes is that C had not much to do with the letter C but was in fact half of a circle. The Circle O was used when there were 3 beats in a measure, the Tempus Perfectum, 3 being the Holy number: God, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. In contrast the human 4/4 time was Imperfectum - just the half of a circle, making it look like the letter C. That's very interesting. Otherwise I remember, having heard at my studium, that 3 beats (perhaps in church history AFTER that, what you have pointed out) got in miscredit in the eyes of church, because 3 beats were used namely in dances and other low level things of the world (pardon, but I'm not a native speaker), ab bit similar to the tritonus, in german called Teufels-Quinte (fifth of the devil). And so ... Listening to the Radio and Spotify, where 99% of the music is in 4/4 time, I am afraid God is not in a winning mood these days ;-) ... perhaps HE is in a winning mood anyway? ;-) Best Regards Roland ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Time signatures ¢¢ and cc
Remember (if it was ever pointed out), perfection in this case means simply completeness. God is complete (perfect) in Himself, people are incomplete (imperfect). According to Church theology, at least. Maybe we are just especially aware of our incompleteness these days. Or we simply prefer music that describes ourselves as a society. What’s that say about waltzes? Hmm… As for the actual content of Dan's original email, I got nothing. ~Conor From: Martin Tarenskeen m.tarensk...@gmail.com Subject: Re: Time signatures ¢¢ and cc Date: September 26, 2014 at 8:27:53 AM CDT To: Simon Albrecht simon.albre...@mail.de Cc: Dan Eble nine.fierce.ball...@gmail.com, lilypond-user@gnu.org Reply-To: Martin Tarenskeen m.tarensk...@zonnet.nl On Fri, 26 Sep 2014, Simon Albrecht wrote: Now the interpretation and history of the various time signatures derived in some way from mensural notation is a complex issue, as is the disambiguation of c and cut c. One of the things I remember from my music Theory and History classes is that C had not much to do with the letter C but was in fact half of a circle. The Circle O was used when there were 3 beats in a measure, the Tempus Perfectum, 3 being the Holy number: God, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. In contrast the human 4/4 time was Imperfectum - just the half of a circle, making it look like the letter C. Listening to the Radio and Spotify, where 99% of the music is in 4/4 time, I am afraid God is not in a winning mood these days ;-) -- MT ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Time signatures ¢¢ and cc
Waltzes are only sort of in 3/4 time. If you play them properly. Shane On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 10:23 AM, Conor Cook conor.p.c...@gmail.com wrote: Remember (if it was ever pointed out), perfection in this case means simply completeness. God is complete (perfect) in Himself, people are incomplete (imperfect). According to Church theology, at least. Maybe we are just especially aware of our incompleteness these days. Or we simply prefer music that describes ourselves as a society. What’s that say about waltzes? Hmm… As for the actual content of Dan's original email, I got nothing. ~Conor From: Martin Tarenskeen m.tarensk...@gmail.com Subject: Re: Time signatures ¢¢ and cc Date: September 26, 2014 at 8:27:53 AM CDT To: Simon Albrecht simon.albre...@mail.de Cc: Dan Eble nine.fierce.ball...@gmail.com, lilypond-user@gnu.org Reply-To: Martin Tarenskeen m.tarensk...@zonnet.nl On Fri, 26 Sep 2014, Simon Albrecht wrote: Now the interpretation and history of the various time signatures derived in some way from mensural notation is a complex issue, as is the disambiguation of c and cut c. One of the things I remember from my music Theory and History classes is that C had not much to do with the letter C but was in fact half of a circle. The Circle O was used when there were 3 beats in a measure, the Tempus Perfectum, 3 being the Holy number: God, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. In contrast the human 4/4 time was Imperfectum - just the half of a circle, making it look like the letter C. Listening to the Radio and Spotify, where 99% of the music is in 4/4 time, I am afraid God is not in a winning mood these days ;-) -- MT ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
