Re: missing glissando features (bugs?)
Mats and Jon, thank yoou for your comments, I will \revert Second, glissandos between different strings is - if not impossible to play - very seldom to find, so to: glissandos between different strings are possible but there seems to be no common sense how to play :-) I've played several orchestral pieces where the violin parts include glissandi ranging over several strings. Mahler Symphony no. 4 comes to my mind, for example. I'm still uncertain on exactly how to play it, though, but perhaps the idea is that every player does it somewhat differently and the collective effect is what the composer is looking for. For solo guitar (which I guess this thread is about), I have no idea. /Mats For something like the image attached played on guitar, I would slide up as far as possible on the 2nd string starting at the C, then make as elegant an arrival on the high G as possible. This sort of stuff happens with some frequency in guitar music and sound pretty good. I have no idea how you do that across four strings on a violin. :) Jon ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: missing glissando features (bugs?)
On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 11:04:30AM +0200, Mats Bengtsson wrote: I've played several orchestral pieces where the violin parts include glissandi ranging over several strings. Mahler Symphony no. 4 comes to my mind, for example. I'm still uncertain on exactly how to play it, though, but perhaps the idea is that every player does it somewhat differently and the collective effect is what the composer is looking for. Oh, come on! There's no theoretical maximum frequency of a violin string[1]. Just start on the G string and slide up. ;) [1] Assuming a perfectly elastic string, being excited by an infitesimally narrow bow, with perfectly-controlled bow speed, pressure, and position... Cheers, - Graham ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: missing glissando features (bugs?)
2009/5/20 Graham Percival gra...@percival-music.ca: On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 10:48:58AM -0600, Carl D. Sorensen wrote: I've always thought that pushing against the fingerboard created a fixed end to the string, while just touching the string created a node. Perhaps the pulling the string towards the arm technique creates enough force that it functions as the end of the string, in contrast to the relatively light harmonic touch? Yeah; if you pull it gently (and if you're in the right position) you get a harmonic, but if you pull it more, it drops down to the regular pitch. As for the actual physics, I'm not certain whether the non-harmonic is caused by the extra tension, or the width of the finger[1], or what. [1] if you touch the string lightly, you only have a small area. But if you pull the string a lot, your finger occupies an arc with a wider angle (albeit still on the order of 2-3 degrees). This wider arc will deaden a lot more vibrations than a small-area touch. I think that if you touch slightly trying to get an harmonic, the string vibrates on full length, at both sides of your finger; if you press more, vibrations end on the finger. Not a node here of a longer string, but simply an effective end of the string. -- Francisco Vila. Badajoz (Spain) www.paconet.org ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: missing glissando features (bugs?)
On 5/20/09 9:20 AM, Graham Percival gra...@percival-music.ca wrote: On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 11:04:30AM +0200, Mats Bengtsson wrote: I've played several orchestral pieces where the violin parts include glissandi ranging over several strings. Mahler Symphony no. 4 comes to my mind, for example. I'm still uncertain on exactly how to play it, though, but perhaps the idea is that every player does it somewhat differently and the collective effect is what the composer is looking for. Oh, come on! There's no theoretical maximum frequency of a violin string[1]. Just start on the G string and slide up. ;) [1] Assuming a perfectly elastic string, being excited by an infitesimally narrow bow, with perfectly-controlled bow speed, pressure, and position... Don't forget that the fingerboard also needs to reach all the way to the bridge! Carl ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: missing glissando features (bugs?)
On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 10:19:47AM -0600, Carl D. Sorensen wrote: On 5/20/09 9:20 AM, Graham Percival gra...@percival-music.ca wrote: Oh, come on! There's no theoretical maximum frequency of a violin string[1]. Just start on the G string and slide up. ;) In case anybody is wondering, the formula for an ideal string is: f = K / (L - x) where f is the frequency, K is a constant (depending on the length, tension, and speed of waves in the medium), L is the length, and x is the finger position. To calculate K, play a string with no fingers down (x=0) and listen to the frequency produced. [1] Assuming a perfectly elastic string, being excited by an infitesimally narrow bow, with perfectly-controlled bow speed, pressure, and position... Don't forget that the fingerboard also needs to reach all the way to the bridge! Nonsense. You can push down a string without a fingerboard... ok, granted this *really* makes the ideal string calculations questionable, since you're changing the tension by quite a bit. But it can certainly be done; I've done it many times on the cello. Actually, one book on cello technique book (I think it was something like how to play the cello without pain; I read it soon after the first time I had tendonitus) actually recommends this style of playing for *all* notes. The claim was that pushing was less natural than pulling, and so you should pull the string to the left (towards your arm) instead of pushing down (exerting force perpendicular to the arm/hand plane). Cheers, - Graham ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: missing glissando features (bugs?)
On 5/20/09 10:41 AM, Graham Percival gra...@percival-music.ca wrote: On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 10:19:47AM -0600, Carl D. Sorensen wrote: Nonsense. You can push down a string without a fingerboard... ok, granted this *really* makes the ideal string calculations questionable, since you're changing the tension by quite a bit. But it can certainly be done; I've done it many times on the cello. Actually, one book on cello technique book (I think it was something like how to play the cello without pain; I read it soon after the first time I had tendonitus) actually recommends this style of playing for *all* notes. The claim was that pushing was less natural than pulling, and so you should pull the string to the left (towards your arm) instead of pushing down (exerting force perpendicular to the arm/hand plane). So I guess if you are using this technique, the only thing that makes a harmonic is when your finger is in a harmonic position? I've always thought that pushing against the fingerboard created a fixed end to the string, while just touching the string created a node. Perhaps the pulling the string towards the arm technique creates enough force that it functions as the end of the string, in contrast to the relatively light harmonic touch? Carl ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: missing glissando features (bugs?)
On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 10:48:58AM -0600, Carl D. Sorensen wrote: I've always thought that pushing against the fingerboard created a fixed end to the string, while just touching the string created a node. Perhaps the pulling the string towards the arm technique creates enough force that it functions as the end of the string, in contrast to the relatively light harmonic touch? Yeah; if you pull it gently (and if you're in the right position) you get a harmonic, but if you pull it more, it drops down to the regular pitch. As for the actual physics, I'm not certain whether the non-harmonic is caused by the extra tension, or the width of the finger[1], or what. [1] if you touch the string lightly, you only have a small area. But if you pull the string a lot, your finger occupies an arc with a wider angle (albeit still on the order of 2-3 degrees). This wider arc will deaden a lot more vibrations than a small-area touch. Cheers, - Graham ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: missing glissando features (bugs?)
Mats Bengtsson wrote: Neil Puttock wrote: 2009/5/16 Marc Hohl m...@hohlart.de: Second, glissandos between different strings is - if not impossible to play - very seldom to find, so I've played several orchestral pieces where the violin parts include glissandi ranging over several strings. Mahler Symphony no. 4 comes to my mind, for example. I'm still uncertain on exactly how to play it, though, but perhaps the idea is that every player does it somewhat differently and the collective effect is what the composer is looking for. For solo guitar (which I guess this thread is about), I have no idea. /Mats For something like the image attached played on guitar, I would slide up as far as possible on the 2nd string starting at the C, then make as elegant an arrival on the high G as possible. This sort of stuff happens with some frequency in guitar music and sound pretty good. I have no idea how you do that across four strings on a violin. :) Jon -- Jonathan Kulp http://www.jonathankulp.com attachment: gliss.png___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: missing glissando features (bugs?)
2009/5/16 Marc Hohl m...@hohlart.de: Second, glissandos between different strings is - if not impossible to play - very seldom to find, so Good point; I hadn't considered that. :) I would prefer the 0.75-version. Yep, it's much more pleasing, and makes the code simpler. Regards, Neil ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: missing glissando features (bugs?)
Neil Puttock schrieb: 2009/5/15 Marc Hohl m...@hohlart.de: I still don't get it - when I use extra-dy = 0, I get glissando lines parallel to the staff lines, so a value of zero can't be right. I have attached the pdf output, the upmost tab lie is the standard behaviour, the middle line is extra-dy = 0, and the lowest line is the one with my calculated value for extra-dy. Hmm, I don't seem to be doing a very good job of explaining it. :) No, I won't go that far :-) I wasn't just aware of the fact that your proposals with extra-dy = 0 concerned glissandos between different strings! As I can see, a value of 0 is definitely wrong here, so it seems that a normal score and a tab score handle extra-dy differently. Exactly: as I mentioned earlier in the thread, in engraver-init.ly there's a setting for 'extra-dy in the context definition for TabVoice, whereas there's no setting for normal glissandos. If you have a look at line-spanner.cc you'll find the code which reads 'extra-dy: it uses robust_scm2double () to ensure a sane value is returned (0 in this case) if the property isn't set. To recap, the current behaviour for glissandos is as follows: 1. If a glissando is in a Voice context other than TabVoice, 'extra-dy = #0 unless overridden by the user. 2. In a TabVoice, 'extra-dy = #0.75 for all glissandos, even if they're between notes at different staff-positions. For a TabVoice glissando, we want 'extra-dy to be 0.75/-0.75 for notes at the same staff-position, depending on the change in pitch; otherwise 'extra-dy should be 0, since we don't need to add any extra slope to glissandos between notes at different staff-positions (or do we... see below ;) Great explanation - now I got it. (if (and (= left-staff-position right-staff-position) ( (ly:pitch-semitones right-pitch) (ly:pitch-semitones left-pitch))) -0.75 0.75 ))) This code can't distinguish between (equal staff-positions right-pitch left-pitch) and (different staff-positions), so will return 0.75 for both situations. Here's a version of the callback which will only apply 'extra-dy if the staff-positions are equal: #(define (glissando::calc-tab-extra-dy grob) (let* ((original (ly:grob-original grob)) (left-bound (ly:spanner-bound original LEFT)) (right-bound (ly:spanner-bound original RIGHT)) (left-pitch (ly:event-property (event-cause left-bound) 'pitch)) (right-pitch (ly:event-property (event-cause right-bound) 'pitch)) (left-staff-position (ly:grob-property left-bound 'staff-position)) (right-staff-position (ly:grob-property right-bound 'staff-position)) (extra-dy (if (= left-staff-position right-staff-position) (if ( (ly:pitch-semitones right-pitch) (ly:pitch-semitones left-pitch)) -0.75 0.75) ;; not on same staff-position - no extra-dy 0))) extra-dy)) Of course, you might prefer to apply 'extra-dy in all cases, since the above places the glissando start and end points on staff-lines (see attached image). :) That's the point: First, it looks (at least for me) somewhat strange when the glissando lines end within the staff lines. Second, glissandos between different strings is - if not impossible to play - very seldom to find, so I would prefer the 0.75-version. Thank you for your patience! Marc Regards, Neil ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: missing glissando features (bugs?)
2009/5/15 Marc Hohl m...@hohlart.de:
I still don't get it - when I use extra-dy = 0, I get glissando lines
parallel to the staff lines,
so a value of zero can't be right. I have attached the pdf output, the
upmost tab lie is the
standard behaviour, the middle line is extra-dy = 0, and the lowest line is
the one with my
calculated value for extra-dy.
Hmm, I don't seem to be doing a very good job of explaining it. :)
As I can see, a value of 0 is definitely wrong here, so it seems that a
normal score and a tab score
handle extra-dy differently.
Exactly: as I mentioned earlier in the thread, in engraver-init.ly
there's a setting for 'extra-dy in the context definition for
TabVoice, whereas there's no setting for normal glissandos. If you
have a look at line-spanner.cc you'll find the code which reads
'extra-dy: it uses robust_scm2double () to ensure a sane value is
returned (0 in this case) if the property isn't set.
To recap, the current behaviour for glissandos is as follows:
1. If a glissando is in a Voice context other than TabVoice, 'extra-dy
= #0 unless overridden by the user.
2. In a TabVoice, 'extra-dy = #0.75 for all glissandos, even if
they're between notes at different staff-positions.
For a TabVoice glissando, we want 'extra-dy to be 0.75/-0.75 for notes
at the same staff-position, depending on the change in pitch;
otherwise 'extra-dy should be 0, since we don't need to add any extra
slope to glissandos between notes at different staff-positions (or do
we... see below ;)
(if (and (= left-staff-position right-staff-position)
( (ly:pitch-semitones right-pitch) (ly:pitch-semitones
left-pitch)))
-0.75
0.75 )))
This code can't distinguish between (equal staff-positions
right-pitch left-pitch) and (different staff-positions), so will
return 0.75 for both situations.
Here's a version of the callback which will only apply 'extra-dy if
the staff-positions are equal:
#(define (glissando::calc-tab-extra-dy grob)
(let* ((original (ly:grob-original grob))
(left-bound (ly:spanner-bound original LEFT))
(right-bound (ly:spanner-bound original RIGHT))
(left-pitch (ly:event-property (event-cause left-bound) 'pitch))
(right-pitch (ly:event-property (event-cause right-bound) 'pitch))
(left-staff-position (ly:grob-property left-bound 'staff-position))
(right-staff-position (ly:grob-property right-bound 'staff-position))
(extra-dy (if (= left-staff-position right-staff-position)
(if ( (ly:pitch-semitones right-pitch)
(ly:pitch-semitones left-pitch))
-0.75
0.75)
;; not on same staff-position - no extra-dy
0)))
extra-dy))
Of course, you might prefer to apply 'extra-dy in all cases, since the
above places the glissando start and end points on staff-lines (see
attached image). :)
Regards,
Neil
\version 2.12.2
\paper {
indent = 0
ragged-right = ##f
}
#(define (glissando::calc-tab-extra-dy grob)
(let* ((original (ly:grob-original grob))
(left-bound (ly:spanner-bound original LEFT))
(right-bound (ly:spanner-bound original RIGHT))
(left-pitch (ly:event-property (event-cause left-bound) 'pitch))
(right-pitch (ly:event-property (event-cause right-bound) 'pitch))
(left-staff-position (ly:grob-property left-bound 'staff-position))
(right-staff-position (ly:grob-property right-bound 'staff-position)))
(if (and (= left-staff-position right-staff-position)
( (ly:pitch-semitones right-pitch) (ly:pitch-semitones
left-pitch)))
-0.75
0.75)))
#(define (extra-dy-test-a grob)
(let* ((original (ly:grob-original grob))
(left-bound (ly:spanner-bound original LEFT))
(right-bound (ly:spanner-bound original RIGHT))
(left-pitch (ly:event-property (event-cause left-bound) 'pitch))
(right-pitch (ly:event-property (event-cause right-bound) 'pitch))
(left-staff-position (ly:grob-property left-bound 'staff-position))
(right-staff-position (ly:grob-property right-bound 'staff-position)))
(if (= left-staff-position right-staff-position)
(if ( (ly:pitch-semitones right-pitch) (ly:pitch-semitones
left-pitch))
-0.75
0.75)
;; not on same staff-position - no extra-dy
0)))
#(define (extra-dy-test-b grob)
(let* ((original (ly:grob-original grob))
(left-bound (ly:spanner-bound original LEFT))
(right-bound (ly:spanner-bound original RIGHT))
(left-pitch (ly:event-property (event-cause left-bound) 'pitch))
(right-pitch (ly:event-property (event-cause right-bound) 'pitch))
(left-staff-position (ly:grob-property left-bound 'staff-position))
(right-staff-position (ly:grob-property right-bound
Re: missing glissando features (bugs?)
Neil Puttock schrieb:
2009/5/11 Marc Hohl m...@hohlart.de:
(if (and (= left-staff-position right-staff-position)
( (ly:pitch-semitones right-pitch) (ly:pitch-semitones
left-pitch)))
-1
1 )))
This will apply an extra-dy of 1 for glissandos which aren't on the
same staff-position.
No, it doesn't; at least in my test files. I have attached an example
where the
default and the corrected behaviour are compared, please have a look at it.
Marc
Here I'm stuck, 'cause when I override the value for extra-dy manually, as
in
dytest = \relative c {
\set TabStaff.minimumFret = #2
\override Glissando #'extra-dy = #0
c4 \glissando cis \glissando c2
}
\score {
\new TabStaff { \clef tab \dytest } }
the glissando line doesn't look as expected, it is parallel to the
staff lines and therefore
invisible. So, strange as it seems, the value 1 must be right here.
The default value for 'extra-dy is set to 0.75 for all glissandos,
even if they're on different lines; see the context definition in
engraver-init.ly.
Though I suggested using cond/else, it's probably easier to use nested
if clauses: if the staff-positions are equal, compare the pitches,
otherwise return a default value of 0.
(if (= left-staff-position right-staff-position)
(if ( (ly:pitch-semitones right-pitch) (ly:pitch-semitones
left-pitch))
-1
1)
;; not on same staff-position - no extra-dy
0))
Just for the record: I think it would be reasonable to move the
glissando::calc-tab-extra-dy
call to tablature.ly, so all files are backwards compatible and tablature
users can profit from
the nicer glissando lines :-)
It would make an excellent addition to the file.
Regards,
Neil
\version 2.12.2
\paper {
indent = 0
ragged-right = ##f
}
#(define (glissando::calc-extra-dy grob)
(let* ((original (ly:grob-original grob))
(left-bound (ly:spanner-bound original LEFT))
(right-bound (ly:spanner-bound original RIGHT))
(left-pitch (ly:event-property (event-cause left-bound) 'pitch))
(right-pitch (ly:event-property (event-cause right-bound) 'pitch)))
(if (and (= (ly:pitch-octave left-pitch) (ly:pitch-octave right-pitch))
(= (ly:pitch-notename left-pitch) (ly:pitch-notename
right-pitch)))
(- (ly:pitch-alteration right-pitch) (ly:pitch-alteration left-pitch))
0 )))
#(define (glissando::calc-tab-extra-dy grob)
(let* ((original (ly:grob-original grob))
(left-bound (ly:spanner-bound original LEFT))
(right-bound (ly:spanner-bound original RIGHT))
(left-pitch (ly:event-property (event-cause left-bound) 'pitch))
(right-pitch (ly:event-property (event-cause right-bound) 'pitch))
(left-staff-position (ly:grob-property left-bound 'staff-position))
(right-staff-position (ly:grob-property right-bound 'staff-position)))
(if (and (= left-staff-position right-staff-position)
( (ly:pitch-semitones right-pitch) (ly:pitch-semitones
left-pitch)))
-1
1 )))
noten = \relative c {
c4 \glissando cis
c4 \glissando cis
c4 \glissando ces
c4 \glissando ces
c4 \glissando d \glissando e \glissando f
}
tabs = \relative c {
\set TabStaff.minimumFret = #2
c4 \glissando cis \glissando c2
c4 \glissando ces \glissando c2
c4 \glissando c \glissando c2
c4 \glissando d \glissando c2
c4 \glissando d \glissando c2
c'4 \glissando d \glissando e, \glissando f
\bar |.
}
\score {
\new Staff { \clef G_8
\noten \break
\override Glissando #'extra-dy = #glissando::calc-extra-dy
\noten }
}
\score {
\new TabStaff { \clef tab
\tabs \break
\override Glissando #'extra-dy =
#glissando::calc-tab-extra-dy
\tabs }
}
___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: missing glissando features (bugs?)
2009/5/14 Marc Hohl m...@hohlart.de: Neil Puttock schrieb: This will apply an extra-dy of 1 for glissandos which aren't on the same staff-position. No, it doesn't; at least in my test files. I have attached an example where the default and the corrected behaviour are compared, please have a look at it. They're not the same, but the difference is subtle because there's only a small change in slope between the default setting (0.75) and the override (1). Try adding the following to your TabStaff score after the \clef command; it will show the difference more clearly: \override Glissando #'extra-dy = #0 Regards, Neil ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: missing glissando features (bugs?)
2009/5/11 Marc Hohl m...@hohlart.de:
(if (and (= left-staff-position right-staff-position)
( (ly:pitch-semitones right-pitch) (ly:pitch-semitones
left-pitch)))
-1
1 )))
This will apply an extra-dy of 1 for glissandos which aren't on the
same staff-position.
Here I'm stuck, 'cause when I override the value for extra-dy manually, as
in
dytest = \relative c {
\set TabStaff.minimumFret = #2
\override Glissando #'extra-dy = #0
c4 \glissando cis \glissando c2
}
\score {
\new TabStaff { \clef tab \dytest } }
the glissando line doesn't look as expected, it is parallel to the
staff lines and therefore
invisible. So, strange as it seems, the value 1 must be right here.
The default value for 'extra-dy is set to 0.75 for all glissandos,
even if they're on different lines; see the context definition in
engraver-init.ly.
Though I suggested using cond/else, it's probably easier to use nested
if clauses: if the staff-positions are equal, compare the pitches,
otherwise return a default value of 0.
(if (= left-staff-position right-staff-position)
(if ( (ly:pitch-semitones right-pitch) (ly:pitch-semitones
left-pitch))
-1
1)
;; not on same staff-position - no extra-dy
0))
Just for the record: I think it would be reasonable to move the
glissando::calc-tab-extra-dy
call to tablature.ly, so all files are backwards compatible and tablature
users can profit from
the nicer glissando lines :-)
It would make an excellent addition to the file.
Regards,
Neil
___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: missing glissando features (bugs?)
Neil Puttock schrieb:
2009/5/10 Marc Hohl m...@hohlart.de:
And here's my solution for tablature:
#(define (glissando::calc-tab-extra-dy grob)
(let* ((original (ly:grob-original grob))
(left-bound (ly:spanner-bound original LEFT))
(right-bound (ly:spanner-bound original RIGHT))
(left-pitch (ly:event-property (event-cause left-bound) 'pitch))
(right-pitch (ly:event-property (event-cause right-bound) 'pitch))
(left-staff-position (ly:grob-property left-bound 'staff-position))
(right-staff-position (ly:grob-property right-bound
'staff-position))
(extra-dy
(if (and (= left-staff-position right-staff-position)
(ly:pitch? right-pitch left-pitch))
Be careful here: ly:pitch? compares pitches lexicographically, so
you'll come unstuck if the pitches differ only in alteration:
#(let ((c-natural (ly:make-pitch 0 0 0))
(c-sharp (ly:make-pitch 0 0 SHARP)))
(display (ly:pitch? c-natural c-sharp))
(newline)
(display (ly:pitch? c-sharp c-natural)))
Ok, I misinterpreted the lexicographically, so I changed my definition to
#(define (glissando::calc-tab-extra-dy grob)
(let* ((original (ly:grob-original grob))
(left-bound (ly:spanner-bound original LEFT))
(right-bound (ly:spanner-bound original RIGHT))
(left-pitch (ly:event-property (event-cause left-bound) 'pitch))
(right-pitch (ly:event-property (event-cause right-bound) 'pitch))
(left-staff-position (ly:grob-property left-bound
'staff-position))
(right-staff-position (ly:grob-property right-bound
'staff-position)))
(if (and (= left-staff-position right-staff-position)
( (ly:pitch-semitones right-pitch) (ly:pitch-semitones
left-pitch)))
-1
1 )))
to be called as you proposed:
\override Glissando #'extra-dy = #glissando::calc-tab-extra-dy
-1
1 ))) ;; I don't know why, but 0 doesn't work properly in
tablature, compare glissando::calc-extra-dy
Unless you can return the correct value or 0 (in the same way as
glissando::calc-extra-dy), you'll probably need to use cond and else:
Here I'm stuck, 'cause when I override the value for extra-dy manually,
as in
dytest = \relative c {
\set TabStaff.minimumFret = #2
\override Glissando #'extra-dy = #0
c4 \glissando cis \glissando c2
}
\score {
\new TabStaff { \clef tab \dytest } }
the glissando line doesn't look as expected, it is parallel to the staff
lines and therefore
invisible. So, strange as it seems, the value 1 must be right here.
Just for the record: I think it would be reasonable to move the
glissando::calc-tab-extra-dy
call to tablature.ly, so all files are backwards compatible and
tablature users can profit from
the nicer glissando lines :-)
Marc
(cond
((right pitch is lower) -1)
(right pitch is higher) 1)
(else 0))
Regards,
Neil
___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: missing glissando features (bugs?)
Neil Puttock schrieb:
2009/5/9 Marc Hohl m...@hohlart.de:
I tried to receive the informations needed by overriding the Glissando
#'stencil with
a function which simply displays the values obtained by the ly:spanner-bound
call
before calling ly:line-spanner::print, but I get only #Grob NoteHead on
the terminal.
What am I doing wrong here?
Nothing, though to be on the safe side, it's best to ensure you're
dealing with the unbroken spanner by using ly:grob-original: if a user
decides to have a glissando over a line break, it won't be possible to
get noteheads for both bounds.
Once you have the NoteHead grobs, you can retrieve their pitches from
the events which created them:
Neil, thank you, I wasn't aware of this connection between grobs and events.
Now it seems rather logical (not surprising as we talk about computing
languages :-)
\relative c' {
\override NoteHead #'stencil = #(lambda (grob)
;; event-cause is a convenient shorthand in this case for
(ly:grob-property grob 'cause)
(display (event-cause grob))
(ly:note-head::print grob))
c4
}
#Prob: Stream_event C++: Stream_event((music-cause . #Prob: Music
C++: Music((length . #Mom 1/4) (elements) (duration . #Duration 4
) (pitch . #Pitch c' ) (origin . #location
/home/neil/Documents/test.ly:254:5))((display-methods #procedure #f
(note parser)) (name . NoteEvent) (types general-music event
note-event rhythmic-event melodic-event))
) (length . #Mom 1/4) (elements) (duration . #Duration 4 ) (pitch
. #Pitch c' ) (origin . #location
/home/neil/Documents/test.ly:254:5))((class . note-event))
From the event, you can get the pitch using ly:event-property event 'pitch.
Putting it all together:
#(define (glissando::calc-extra-dy grob)
(let* ((original (ly:grob-original grob))
(left-bound (ly:spanner-bound original LEFT))
(right-bound (ly:spanner-bound original RIGHT))
(left-pitch (ly:event-property (event-cause left-bound) 'pitch))
(right-pitch (ly:event-property (event-cause right-bound) 'pitch)))
;; work out return value based on pitches here
I came up with the following definition:
#(define (glissando::calc-extra-dy grob)
(let* ((original (ly:grob-original grob))
(left-bound (ly:spanner-bound original LEFT))
(right-bound (ly:spanner-bound original RIGHT))
(left-pitch (ly:event-property (event-cause left-bound) 'pitch))
(right-pitch (ly:event-property (event-cause right-bound) 'pitch))
(extra-dy
(if (and (= (ly:pitch-octave left-pitch) (ly:pitch-octave
right-pitch))
(= (ly:pitch-notename left-pitch)
(ly:pitch-notename right-pitch)))
(- (ly:pitch-alteration right-pitch)
(ly:pitch-alteration left-pitch))
0 )))
(set! (ly:grob-property grob 'extra-dy) extra-dy)
(ly:line-spanner::print grob)))
noten = \relative c {
c4 \glissando cis
c4 \glissando cis
c4 \glissando ces
c4 \glissando ces
c4 \glissando d \glissando e \glissando f
}
\score {
\new Staff { \clef G_8
\noten \break
\override Glissando #'stencil = #glissando::calc-extra-dy
\noten}
}
and it works! Lilypond is just great; the deeper I get into it, the more
impressed I am.
So I will try and solve the tablature problem, too.
Marc
0))
Regards,
Neil
___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: missing glissando features (bugs?)
I came up with the following definition: [...] and it works! Mhmm, not perfect: There should be a dx correction to avoid an overlap between the glissando line and the accidental. Werner ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: missing glissando features (bugs?)
Werner LEMBERG schrieb: I came up with the following definition: [...] and it works! Mhmm, not perfect: There should be a dx correction to avoid an overlap between the glissando line and the accidental. Werner Yes, I know, but I concentrated on item (2); see the start of this thread. Improvements etc. are always welcome, but it seems to me that the problem glissando vs. accidentals is not easy to solve. Marc ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: missing glissando features (bugs?)
Marc Hohl schrieb:
Neil Puttock schrieb:
2009/5/9 Marc Hohl m...@hohlart.de:
I tried to receive the informations needed by overriding the Glissando
#'stencil with
a function which simply displays the values obtained by the
ly:spanner-bound
call
before calling ly:line-spanner::print, but I get only #Grob
NoteHead on
the terminal.
What am I doing wrong here?
Nothing, though to be on the safe side, it's best to ensure you're
dealing with the unbroken spanner by using ly:grob-original: if a user
decides to have a glissando over a line break, it won't be possible to
get noteheads for both bounds.
Once you have the NoteHead grobs, you can retrieve their pitches from
the events which created them:
Neil, thank you, I wasn't aware of this connection between grobs and
events.
Now it seems rather logical (not surprising as we talk about computing
languages :-)
\relative c' {
\override NoteHead #'stencil = #(lambda (grob)
;; event-cause is a convenient shorthand in this case for
(ly:grob-property grob 'cause)
(display (event-cause grob))
(ly:note-head::print grob))
c4
}
#Prob: Stream_event C++: Stream_event((music-cause . #Prob: Music
C++: Music((length . #Mom 1/4) (elements) (duration . #Duration 4
) (pitch . #Pitch c' ) (origin . #location
/home/neil/Documents/test.ly:254:5))((display-methods #procedure #f
(note parser)) (name . NoteEvent) (types general-music event
note-event rhythmic-event melodic-event))
) (length . #Mom 1/4) (elements) (duration . #Duration 4 ) (pitch
. #Pitch c' ) (origin . #location
/home/neil/Documents/test.ly:254:5))((class . note-event))
From the event, you can get the pitch using ly:event-property event
'pitch.
Putting it all together:
#(define (glissando::calc-extra-dy grob)
(let* ((original (ly:grob-original grob))
(left-bound (ly:spanner-bound original LEFT))
(right-bound (ly:spanner-bound original RIGHT))
(left-pitch (ly:event-property (event-cause left-bound)
'pitch))
(right-pitch (ly:event-property (event-cause right-bound)
'pitch)))
;; work out return value based on pitches here
I came up with the following definition:
#(define (glissando::calc-extra-dy grob)
(let* ((original (ly:grob-original grob))
(left-bound (ly:spanner-bound original LEFT))
(right-bound (ly:spanner-bound original RIGHT))
(left-pitch (ly:event-property (event-cause left-bound) 'pitch))
(right-pitch (ly:event-property (event-cause right-bound)
'pitch))
(extra-dy
(if (and (= (ly:pitch-octave left-pitch) (ly:pitch-octave
right-pitch))
(= (ly:pitch-notename left-pitch)
(ly:pitch-notename right-pitch)))
(- (ly:pitch-alteration right-pitch)
(ly:pitch-alteration left-pitch))
0 )))
(set! (ly:grob-property grob 'extra-dy) extra-dy)
(ly:line-spanner::print grob)))
noten = \relative c {
c4 \glissando cis
c4 \glissando cis
c4 \glissando ces
c4 \glissando ces
c4 \glissando d \glissando e \glissando f
}
\score {
\new Staff { \clef G_8
\noten \break
\override Glissando #'stencil =
#glissando::calc-extra-dy
\noten}
}
and it works! Lilypond is just great; the deeper I get into it, the
more impressed I am.
So I will try and solve the tablature problem, too.
And here's my solution for tablature:
#(define (glissando::calc-tab-extra-dy grob)
(let* ((original (ly:grob-original grob))
(left-bound (ly:spanner-bound original LEFT))
(right-bound (ly:spanner-bound original RIGHT))
(left-pitch (ly:event-property (event-cause left-bound) 'pitch))
(right-pitch (ly:event-property (event-cause right-bound) 'pitch))
(left-staff-position (ly:grob-property left-bound
'staff-position))
(right-staff-position (ly:grob-property right-bound
'staff-position))
(extra-dy
(if (and (= left-staff-position right-staff-position)
(ly:pitch? right-pitch left-pitch))
-1
1 ))) ;; I don't know why, but 0 doesn't work
properly in tablature, compare glissando::calc-extra-dy
(set! (ly:grob-property grob 'extra-dy) extra-dy)
(ly:line-spanner::print grob)))
tabs = \relative c {
\set TabStaff.minimumFret = #2
c4 \glissando d \glissando c2
c4 \glissando d \glissando c2
c'4 \glissando d \glissando e, \glissando f
\bar |.
}
\score {
\new TabStaff { \clef tab \tabs
\break
\override Glissando #'stencil =
#glissando::calc-tab-extra-dy
\tabs }
}
0))
Regards,
Neil
___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
___
lilypond-user
Re: missing glissando features (bugs?)
2009/5/10 Marc Hohl m...@hohlart.de: I came up with the following definition: #(define (glissando::calc-extra-dy grob) (let* ((original (ly:grob-original grob)) (left-bound (ly:spanner-bound original LEFT)) (right-bound (ly:spanner-bound original RIGHT)) (left-pitch (ly:event-property (event-cause left-bound) 'pitch)) (right-pitch (ly:event-property (event-cause right-bound) 'pitch)) (extra-dy (if (and (= (ly:pitch-octave left-pitch) (ly:pitch-octave right-pitch)) (= (ly:pitch-notename left-pitch) (ly:pitch-notename right-pitch))) (- (ly:pitch-alteration right-pitch) (ly:pitch-alteration left-pitch)) 0 ))) (set! (ly:grob-property grob 'extra-dy) extra-dy) (ly:line-spanner::print grob))) Good stuff, though you don't need to override #'stencil here; it will work just as well with #'extra-dy directly: #(define (glissando::calc-extra-dy grob) (let* ((original (ly:grob-original grob)) (left-bound (ly:spanner-bound original LEFT)) (right-bound (ly:spanner-bound original RIGHT)) (left-pitch (ly:event-property (event-cause left-bound) 'pitch)) (right-pitch (ly:event-property (event-cause right-bound) 'pitch))) (if (and (= (ly:pitch-octave left-pitch) (ly:pitch-octave right-pitch)) (= (ly:pitch-notename left-pitch) (ly:pitch-notename right-pitch))) (- (ly:pitch-alteration right-pitch) (ly:pitch-alteration left-pitch)) 0))) \override Glissando #'extra-dy = #glissando::calc-extra-dy Regards, Neil ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: missing glissando features (bugs?)
2009/5/10 Marc Hohl m...@hohlart.de: And here's my solution for tablature: #(define (glissando::calc-tab-extra-dy grob) (let* ((original (ly:grob-original grob)) (left-bound (ly:spanner-bound original LEFT)) (right-bound (ly:spanner-bound original RIGHT)) (left-pitch (ly:event-property (event-cause left-bound) 'pitch)) (right-pitch (ly:event-property (event-cause right-bound) 'pitch)) (left-staff-position (ly:grob-property left-bound 'staff-position)) (right-staff-position (ly:grob-property right-bound 'staff-position)) (extra-dy (if (and (= left-staff-position right-staff-position) (ly:pitch? right-pitch left-pitch)) Be careful here: ly:pitch? compares pitches lexicographically, so you'll come unstuck if the pitches differ only in alteration: #(let ((c-natural (ly:make-pitch 0 0 0)) (c-sharp (ly:make-pitch 0 0 SHARP))) (display (ly:pitch? c-natural c-sharp)) (newline) (display (ly:pitch? c-sharp c-natural))) -1 1 ))) ;; I don't know why, but 0 doesn't work properly in tablature, compare glissando::calc-extra-dy Unless you can return the correct value or 0 (in the same way as glissando::calc-extra-dy), you'll probably need to use cond and else: (cond ((right pitch is lower) -1) (right pitch is higher) 1) (else 0)) Regards, Neil ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: missing glissando features (bugs?)
Neil Puttock schrieb:
2009/5/2 Marc Hohl m...@hohlart.de:
I have made some observations concerning \glissando:
1) accidentals are not recognised properly; I know this is in the bug list
and there are workarounds,
see http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-lilypond/2005-08/msg00235.html
This isn't at all straightforward to fix (I had a stab at it a while
ago, and it's tricky to get the positioning correct on the right hand
side because the accidental changes the anchor point for the end of
the glissando.)
2) the glissando line between half steps should indicate the direction;
e.g. a glissando line between c and c# should raise a bit and not be
parallel to the staff lines;
3) in tablature, the glissando is always indicated upwards, but it should be
drawn in respect to the fret number;
e.g. 3/5\3, not 3/5/3;
Should (2) and (3) be considered as bugs? I have found a request from
9/2005:
Probably.
It should be quite easy to fix both problems with a callback for
'extra-dy (see below)
I tried this manually, and it works just fine, see attached file.
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-lilypond/2005-09/msg00112.html
and it seems to me that this has been partly implemented
(the lines betweeen fret numbers are now sloped, so there _has_ been some
progress).
Are there any hints/workarounds to solve this problem?
From the glissando you can get the left and right noteheads using
ly:spanner-bound, from which it's possible to retrieve the pitches. A
simple comparision of pitches should allow you to set the correct
return value for 'extra-dy.
I tried to receive the informations needed by overriding the Glissando
#'stencil with
a function which simply displays the values obtained by the
ly:spanner-bound call
before calling ly:line-spanner::print, but I get only #Grob NoteHead
on the terminal.
What am I doing wrong here?
Thanks in advance.
Marc
For TabVoice.Glissando, you can get the staff-positions for the
bounding notes, so it's possible to apply extra-dy only for glissandos
between tab notes on the same line.
Regards,
Neil
\version 2.12.2
\paper {
ragged-right = ##f
}
#(define (glissando::test grob)
(let* ((left-bound (ly:spanner-bound grob LEFT))
(right-bound (ly:spanner-bound grob RIGHT)))
(display left-bound: )(display left-bound)(newline)
(display right-bound: )(display right-bound)(newline)
;; for now, we simply use the default printing routine
(ly:line-spanner::print grob)))
noten = \relative c {
\override Glissando #'stencil = #glissando::test
c4 \glissando cis
\once \override Glissando #'extra-dy = #0.5
c4 \glissando cis
c4 \glissando ces
\once \override Glissando #'extra-dy = #-0.5
c4 \glissando ces
}
tabs = \relative c {
\set TabStaff.minimumFret = #2
c4 \glissando
\once \override Glissando #'extra-dy = #-1.0
d \glissando c2
c4 \glissando d \glissando c2
\bar |.
}
\score {
\new Staff { \clef G_8 \noten }
}
\score {
\new TabStaff { \clef tab \tabs }
}
___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: missing glissando features (bugs?)
2009/5/9 Marc Hohl m...@hohlart.de:
I tried to receive the informations needed by overriding the Glissando
#'stencil with
a function which simply displays the values obtained by the ly:spanner-bound
call
before calling ly:line-spanner::print, but I get only #Grob NoteHead on
the terminal.
What am I doing wrong here?
Nothing, though to be on the safe side, it's best to ensure you're
dealing with the unbroken spanner by using ly:grob-original: if a user
decides to have a glissando over a line break, it won't be possible to
get noteheads for both bounds.
Once you have the NoteHead grobs, you can retrieve their pitches from
the events which created them:
\relative c' {
\override NoteHead #'stencil = #(lambda (grob)
;; event-cause is a convenient shorthand in this case for
(ly:grob-property grob 'cause)
(display (event-cause grob))
(ly:note-head::print grob))
c4
}
#Prob: Stream_event C++: Stream_event((music-cause . #Prob: Music
C++: Music((length . #Mom 1/4) (elements) (duration . #Duration 4
) (pitch . #Pitch c' ) (origin . #location
/home/neil/Documents/test.ly:254:5))((display-methods #procedure #f
(note parser)) (name . NoteEvent) (types general-music event
note-event rhythmic-event melodic-event))
) (length . #Mom 1/4) (elements) (duration . #Duration 4 ) (pitch
. #Pitch c' ) (origin . #location
/home/neil/Documents/test.ly:254:5))((class . note-event))
From the event, you can get the pitch using ly:event-property event 'pitch.
Putting it all together:
#(define (glissando::calc-extra-dy grob)
(let* ((original (ly:grob-original grob))
(left-bound (ly:spanner-bound original LEFT))
(right-bound (ly:spanner-bound original RIGHT))
(left-pitch (ly:event-property (event-cause left-bound) 'pitch))
(right-pitch (ly:event-property (event-cause right-bound) 'pitch)))
;; work out return value based on pitches here
0))
Regards,
Neil
___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: missing glissando features (bugs?)
Neil Puttock schrieb: 2009/5/2 Marc Hohl m...@hohlart.de: I have made some observations concerning \glissando: 1) accidentals are not recognised properly; I know this is in the bug list and there are workarounds, see http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-lilypond/2005-08/msg00235.html This isn't at all straightforward to fix (I had a stab at it a while ago, and it's tricky to get the positioning correct on the right hand side because the accidental changes the anchor point for the end of the glissando.) 2) the glissando line between half steps should indicate the direction; e.g. a glissando line between c and c# should raise a bit and not be parallel to the staff lines; 3) in tablature, the glissando is always indicated upwards, but it should be drawn in respect to the fret number; e.g. 3/5\3, not 3/5/3; Should (2) and (3) be considered as bugs? I have found a request from 9/2005: Probably. It should be quite easy to fix both problems with a callback for 'extra-dy (see below) http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-lilypond/2005-09/msg00112.html and it seems to me that this has been partly implemented (the lines betweeen fret numbers are now sloped, so there _has_ been some progress). Are there any hints/workarounds to solve this problem? From the glissando you can get the left and right noteheads using ly:spanner-bound, from which it's possible to retrieve the pitches. A simple comparision of pitches should allow you to set the correct return value for 'extra-dy. Thanks for your informations. I did a lot of git grep in the sources, but I didn't find very much about invoking ly:spanner-bound. How can I obtain the value for the first argument, i.e. the slur of (ly:spanner-bound slur dir)? For TabVoice.Glissando, you can get the staff-positions for the bounding notes, so it's possible to apply extra-dy only for glissandos between tab notes on the same line. Regards, Neil ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: missing glissando features (bugs?)
See if anything here helps: http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.12/Documentation/user/lilypond-internals/Glissando#Glissando Also search the archives for glissando and bound-details - the answer is in there. Good luck! Neil On Sat, May 2, 2009 at 7:20 AM, Marc Hohl m...@hohlart.de wrote: I have made some observations concerning \glissando: 1) accidentals are not recognised properly; I know this is in the bug list and there are workarounds, see http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-lilypond/2005-08/msg00235.html 2) the glissando line between half steps should indicate the direction; e.g. a glissando line between c and c# should raise a bit and not be parallel to the staff lines; 3) in tablature, the glissando is always indicated upwards, but it should be drawn in respect to the fret number; e.g. 3/5\3, not 3/5/3; Should (2) and (3) be considered as bugs? I have found a request from 9/2005: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-lilypond/2005-09/msg00112.html and it seems to me that this has been partly implemented (the lines betweeen fret numbers are now sloped, so there _has_ been some progress). Are there any hints/workarounds to solve this problem? Thanks in advance, Marc ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user -- Neil Thornock, D.M. Assistant Professor of Music Composition/Theory Brigham Young University http://neilthornock.net ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: missing glissando features (bugs?)
2009/5/2 Marc Hohl m...@hohlart.de: I have made some observations concerning \glissando: 1) accidentals are not recognised properly; I know this is in the bug list and there are workarounds, see http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-lilypond/2005-08/msg00235.html This isn't at all straightforward to fix (I had a stab at it a while ago, and it's tricky to get the positioning correct on the right hand side because the accidental changes the anchor point for the end of the glissando.) 2) the glissando line between half steps should indicate the direction; e.g. a glissando line between c and c# should raise a bit and not be parallel to the staff lines; 3) in tablature, the glissando is always indicated upwards, but it should be drawn in respect to the fret number; e.g. 3/5\3, not 3/5/3; Should (2) and (3) be considered as bugs? I have found a request from 9/2005: Probably. It should be quite easy to fix both problems with a callback for 'extra-dy (see below) http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-lilypond/2005-09/msg00112.html and it seems to me that this has been partly implemented (the lines betweeen fret numbers are now sloped, so there _has_ been some progress). Are there any hints/workarounds to solve this problem? From the glissando you can get the left and right noteheads using ly:spanner-bound, from which it's possible to retrieve the pitches. A simple comparision of pitches should allow you to set the correct return value for 'extra-dy. For TabVoice.Glissando, you can get the staff-positions for the bounding notes, so it's possible to apply extra-dy only for glissandos between tab notes on the same line. Regards, Neil ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
