Re: realtimeMIDI2LilyPond / realtimeMIDI2MusicXML

[Karlin High]

On 7/13/2016 2:17 PM, Martin Tarenskeen wrote:
On Wed, 13 Jul 2016, Jonathan Scholbach wrote:
But is there a (good) program which allows you to record the music with your 
midi-keyboard and get a .ly-output? The main problem seems to be the rhythmic 
imprecision of humans playing the piano.
Another main problem is the imprecision of music notation itself. Even if the 
midi input is rhythmically perfect, a computer will in many cases notate things 
different from what a musician/engraver would write or would want to read. Many 
horrible examples of scores auto-generated from MIDI input can found on the 
internet. Google for something like "free scores".
Yes. Expect imported MIDI to need cleanup work. I still do it because it lets 
me focus on get pitches and durations input correctly, with no initial concerns 
about typesetting and appearance.
--
Karlin High
Missouri, USA
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Re: realtimeMIDI2LilyPond / realtimeMIDI2MusicXML

[Martin Tarenskeen]

On Wed, 13 Jul 2016, Jonathan Scholbach wrote:

But is there a (good) program which allows you to record the music with 
your midi-keyboard and get a .ly-output? The main problem seems to be 
the rhythmic imprecision of humans playing the piano.


Another main problem is the imprecision of music notation itself. Even if 
the midi input is rhythmically perfect, a computer will in many cases 
notate things different from what a musician/engraver would write or would 
want to read. Many horrible examples of scores auto-generated from MIDI 
input can found on the internet. Google for something like "free scores".


--

MT

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Re: realtimeMIDI2LilyPond / realtimeMIDI2MusicXML

[Karlin High]

On 7/13/2016 4:44 AM, Jonathan Scholbach wrote:
> Hi!
>
> Does somebody have experiences with inputting voices via MIDI? I know
> that several programs exist with which you can enter music (to Finale-
> or Sibelius-output or to MusicXML) by step-recording. But is there a
> (good) program which allows you to record the music with your
> midi-keyboard and get a .ly-output?
> The main problem seems to be the rhythmic imprecision of humans playing
> the piano. Is there a program which deals with that? If there is no such
> program do you know attempts to write it?
>
> Thanks
>
> Jonathan
My favorite way to get MIDI into LilyPond is first making MIDI files and 
then converting them to LY files with the midi2ly script.

To make MIDI files for LilyPond, I use a program called SpeedyMIDI. ("An 
editor designed for choirs and singers to quickly generate MIDI files 
for rehearsal.")
http://sourceforge.net/projects/speedymidi/files/ Available for Windows 
and Linux; I use it on both. This program is mostly about pitches and 
durations. Note input is either by onscreen mouse keyboard, or a 
connected MIDI music keyboard. I use an M-Audio Keystation 49e.

SpeedyMIDI solves the imprecise note duration problem by having users 
input both - first hold the note, then press the spacebar to fill in as 
many cells in its spreadsheet-like MIDI grid as desired. (The cell size 
is adjustable from 1, a whole note, to 128th notes.) I also used the 
Bome MIDI Translator program to get MIDI messages for a key like C1 or 
C6 (unused for my work) and convert them to spacebar keystrokes. The 
result allows control of the SpeedyMIDI program with only the MIDI 
keyboard. (The Bome program is available at 
https://www.bome.com/products/miditranslator/overview/classic and works 
well for Windows, but so far I have not been able to get anything 
equivalent running on Linux.)

For vocal music, this setup is a near-perfect fit for my needs. Now if 
someone is trying to input a thing like Gottschalk's "The Banjo" for 
piano, I doubt it would work nearly as well, or maybe not at all.

My dream is to use LilyPond to make a hymnal edition. Of this one: 
https://www.hymnary.org/hymnal/CPHS1875 It's the oldest Mennonite hymnal 
in the English language, published in 1847 and last printed in 2015, 
never with notation but rather referencing the Philharmonia and Harmonia 
Sacra tunebooks. https://archive.org/details/philharmoniacollwenger 
https://archive.org/details/newharmoniasacra0funk (If you ever wondered 
how the Funk noteheads got into LilyPond, Joseph Funk the compiler of 
some of these is the man to thank or blame.) I want to combine the text 
and tunes to produce a hymnal with notation. The hymnal has around 172 
SATB vocal tunes, and towards the end it was taking about 20 minutes 
each to enter them into MIDI files. Earlier, I tried various Music OCR 
programs for this project - that sounded great! I already had page 
scans, and was hoping to get MIDI files from them. But nothing I found 
came even close to working.

Then, I used LilyPond's midi2ly script to convert the MIDI files to LY 
files.
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/usage/invoking-midi2ly

That got the pitches and durations into LilyPond. Now lots of layout and 
lyrics work remains. I read with interest the discussions about LaTeX 
and LilyPond; this project is going to be hundreds of pages long and I'm 
not sure how best to structure it yet.
--
Karlin High
Missouri, USA

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Re: realtimeMIDI2LilyPond / realtimeMIDI2MusicXML

[David Kastrup]

Richard Shann  writes:

> On Wed, 2016-07-13 at 13:35 +0200, Johan Vromans wrote:
>> As for real-time recording, rumor can do that.
>
> I can't find anything called "rumor" doing obvious searches - can you be
> more specific. (And, more importantly, does it work? After all, Denemo
> will allow you to record your MIDI playing against a click track and
> then convert that to notation but you will spend more time fixing
> mistakes than entering the music).

dpkg -l rumor
Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold
| Status=Not/Inst/Conf-files/Unpacked/halF-conf/Half-inst/trig-aWait/Trig-pend
|/ Err?=(none)/Reinst-required (Status,Err: uppercase=bad)
||/ Name  Version   Architecture
  Description
+++-=-=-=-===
ii  rumor 1.0.5-2   i386
  Realtime MIDI keyboard to Lilypond converter

The info file top reads:

File: rumor.info,  Node: Top,  Next: Features,  Up: (dir)

1 Rumor -- Really Unintelligent Music transcriptOR
**

This documentation was generated for Rumor 1.0.5 at 15 June 2014.

   Rumor is a realtime monophonic (with chords) MIDI keyboard to
Lilypond converter.  It receives MIDI events, quantizes them according
to its metronome on the fly and outputs handwritten-like corresponding
Lilypond notation.  Tempo, meter, key and other parameters can be set
via command-line options (*note Invocation::).

* Menu:

* Features::
* Examples::
* Invocation::  
* Scripting::   Guile interface
* Links::   Sources, further information

   This program is Copyright (C) 2003 Vaclav Smilauer and is covered by
GNU General Public License (see the file 'COPYING' in the source
distribution).


The node "Links" reads:

File: rumor.info,  Node: Links,  Prev: Scripting,  Up: Top

6 Links
***

For further information, consult source documentation and 'README' in
particular.  Try also here:

   * homepage: 
   * sources: 
   * contact: >

   Real-life pieces typeset using Rumor (please report if there are
more!)

   * BWV538:
 
   * BWV544:
 
   * BWV565:
 
   * BWV1079:
 
   * BWV542:
 

   Related sites:

   * Nicolas Sceaux's Lilypond quick insert mode uses Rumor as its
 backend: 
   * Lilypond: 
   * Mutopia: 
   * ALSA: 
   * OSS: 
   * Guile: 



Last time I tried any of the sites specific to rumor itself, they were
all dead.  But the Debian package exists.

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: realtimeMIDI2LilyPond / realtimeMIDI2MusicXML

[Johan Vromans]

On Wed, 13 Jul 2016 14:11:26 +0100
Richard Shann  wrote:

> On Wed, 2016-07-13 at 13:35 +0200, Johan Vromans wrote:
> > As for real-time recording, rumor can do that.  
> 
> I can't find anything called "rumor" doing obvious searches - can you be
> more specific.

Google "lilypond rumor" yields a.o. our own
http://lilypond.org/easier-editing.html

Rumor is a standard package for Fedora and many other distros.

> (And, more importantly, does it work?

Reasonably, often useful. I'm not an experienced piano player so I cannot
really judge it.

-- Johan

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Re: realtimeMIDI2LilyPond / realtimeMIDI2MusicXML

[Richard Shann]

On Wed, 2016-07-13 at 13:35 +0200, Johan Vromans wrote:
> As for real-time recording, rumor can do that.

I can't find anything called "rumor" doing obvious searches - can you be
more specific. (And, more importantly, does it work? After all, Denemo
will allow you to record your MIDI playing against a click track and
then convert that to notation but you will spend more time fixing
mistakes than entering the music).

Richard




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Re: realtimeMIDI2LilyPond / realtimeMIDI2MusicXML

[Johan Vromans]

On Wed, 13 Jul 2016 12:24:49 +0100
Richard Shann  wrote:

> Entering rhythms is still a bit of a bore, 

Yes, but often you can copy/paste parts that have similar rhythms, and then
fill in the correct notes.

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Re: realtimeMIDI2LilyPond / realtimeMIDI2MusicXML

[Johan Vromans]

On Wed, 13 Jul 2016 11:54:01 +0200
bart deruyter  wrote:

> frescobaldi does step-recording, I just tried it, works fine here :-)

I got used to midi input with Denemo, where you can put in the rhythm
(durations) first, and then the notes. Frescobaldi only does the latter.
Another advantage of Denemo is that you can hear the note when you play it.
I assume this could be added rather easily to Frescobaldi as well.

As for real-time recording, rumor can do that.

-- Johan

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Re: realtimeMIDI2LilyPond / realtimeMIDI2MusicXML

[Richard Shann]

On Wed, 2016-07-13 at 11:44 +0200, Jonathan Scholbach wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> Does somebody have experiences with inputting voices via MIDI? I know
> that several programs exist with which you can enter music (to Finale-
> or Sibelius-output or to MusicXML) by step-recording. But is there a
> (good) program which allows you to record the music with your
> midi-keyboard and get a .ly-output?
> The main problem seems to be the rhythmic imprecision of humans playing
> the piano. Is there a program which deals with that? If there is no such
> program do you know attempts to write it?

I created an intermediate method, a sort of super-step-recording for the
Denemo front end to LilyPond. You can enter each change of rhythmic
duration along with the notes as in ordinary step-recording but in
addition you can enter the rhythm for whole bars, phrases, lines and
even wole movements before playing the notes (which adds the pitches to
the rhythms).

When I did this I thought I was just making an slight improvement over
step recording. But I discovered that as I entered the rhythms I fell
into entering the durations rhythmically, and that this felt a bit like
playing a drum. That is, I was leveraging my sight-reading ability to
enter the rhythm as music, helping to keep my place in the music.

Over time I created key shortcuts that meant dotted rhythms, triplets,
and slurs could all be entered without breaking rhythm. Where the rhythm
is repetitive I *do* break rhythm, e.g. copying the rhythm of one bar to
the next, or filling out a bar with the same rhythm already entered etc.

Entering rhythms is still a bit of a bore, but as each has its own sound
I find I get a very high degree of accuracy and can often enter a voice
in the time it takes to play it twice.

Once you have entered your notes there is a command to generate the
LilyPond syntax for them into a file.

HTH

Richard




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Re: realtimeMIDI2LilyPond / realtimeMIDI2MusicXML

[bart deruyter]

Hi,

frescobaldi does step-recording, I just tried it, works fine here :-)

grtz,

Bart

http://www.bartart3d.be/
On Twitter 
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2016-07-13 11:44 GMT+02:00 Jonathan Scholbach :

> Hi!
>
> Does somebody have experiences with inputting voices via MIDI? I know
> that several programs exist with which you can enter music (to Finale-
> or Sibelius-output or to MusicXML) by step-recording. But is there a
> (good) program which allows you to record the music with your
> midi-keyboard and get a .ly-output?
> The main problem seems to be the rhythmic imprecision of humans playing
> the piano. Is there a program which deals with that? If there is no such
> program do you know attempts to write it?
>
> Thanks
>
> Jonathan
>
>
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