Re: Score structure with alternate endings
Hi Michael,
heh, I guess I've gotten so used to keeping my key signature in a separate
voice it never occurred to me I could change keys at the level of
individual voices.
Thanks again,
Andrew
er/ihn/ihm/sein | he/him/his
Berlin
On Thu, Nov 2, 2023 at 4:18 PM Michael Werner wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 2, 2023 at 9:43 AM N. Andrew Walsh
> wrote:
>
>> Another question: is it possible to set the key signature for the two
>> "alternate" sections to be different? I know I can hide one, but is it
>> possible for different voices to have/display key signatures that are
>> independent of one another?
>>
>
> Sure can, as long as each one is in its own staff. (As in, if there are
> multiple voices sharing one staff they each have to be in the same key.)
> You can either set the key signature at the staff level, or you can do it
> at the voice level. I prefer to put the key in with the music, something
> like:
>
> music = \relative c' {
> \key c \major
> c4 d e f
> }
>
> This way, the key information is carried along with the music. You can
> also put the time signature and the tempo into the music variable as well,
> if you wish. That way if you want / need to reuse the music the
> information is there already. Much of the music I deal with I'm reusing
> the same music variable in multiple scores, each formatting the music
> differently for different instruments. But since the music itself is
> already in a variable, reusing it like that is easy. But that's my (rather
> peculiar) individual situation and needs. Others most certainly do things
> differently. It'll take time and a bunch of trial and error to figure out
> what you need for whatever you're doing. And then more time and more trial
> and error to figure out how best to go about it. It's a learning process.
> --
> Michael
>
>
Re: Score structure with alternate endings
On Thu, Nov 2, 2023 at 9:43 AM N. Andrew Walsh
wrote:
> Another question: is it possible to set the key signature for the two
> "alternate" sections to be different? I know I can hide one, but is it
> possible for different voices to have/display key signatures that are
> independent of one another?
>
Sure can, as long as each one is in its own staff. (As in, if there are
multiple voices sharing one staff they each have to be in the same key.)
You can either set the key signature at the staff level, or you can do it
at the voice level. I prefer to put the key in with the music, something
like:
music = \relative c' {
\key c \major
c4 d e f
}
This way, the key information is carried along with the music. You can
also put the time signature and the tempo into the music variable as well,
if you wish. That way if you want / need to reuse the music the
information is there already. Much of the music I deal with I'm reusing
the same music variable in multiple scores, each formatting the music
differently for different instruments. But since the music itself is
already in a variable, reusing it like that is easy. But that's my (rather
peculiar) individual situation and needs. Others most certainly do things
differently. It'll take time and a bunch of trial and error to figure out
what you need for whatever you're doing. And then more time and more trial
and error to figure out how best to go about it. It's a learning process.
--
Michael
Re: Score structure with alternate endings
Hi Michael,
excellent, I'll have a look at that. Another question: is it possible to
set the key signature for the two "alternate" sections to be different? I
know I can hide one, but is it possible for different voices to
have/display key signatures that are independent of one another?
Cheers,
Andrew
er/ihn/ihm/sein | he/him/his
Berlin
On Thu, Nov 2, 2023 at 1:30 PM Michael Werner wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 2, 2023 at 7:11 AM N. Andrew Walsh
> wrote:
>
>> One question: you add some extra padding between the two variants with an
>> \override; is there a way to do the same thing for modifying the padding
>> between two PianoStaff groups (but not change the staff-staff spacing
>> within each of them)?
>>
>
> Absolutely. Just one catch - it has to be done differently. For all the
> gory details, I'm going to suggest you have a look through chapter 4 of the
> Notation Reference, titled simply Spacing issues. It's at
> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.25/Documentation/notation/spacing-issues
> There's a lot in there, but the main thing to recognize and be aware of is
> that different spacing settings get set in different places. Some can go in
> a few different places (such as the staff-staff padding I added in the
> example code), while others can only go in the paper block. And as it
> happens, the setting you are asking about is one that has to go into the
> paper block. If you already have a paper block (for example setting
> margins or indents, that kind of thing) you can just add this in. But
> basically what you'll need is something along the lines of:
>
> \paper {
> system-system-spacing.padding = #15
> }
>
> Here, system-system-spacing is the setting you want. And each setting has
> sub-settings - basic-distance, minimum-distance, padding, and
> stretchability. The docs I linked to above have all the details on what
> each of those mean and how to go about changing them. The number is the
> space measured in staff spaces. It'll probably take a bit of trial and
> error to find the spacing you want, but it should be fairly straight
> forward.
> --
> Michael
>
>
Re: Score structure with alternate endings
On Thu, Nov 2, 2023 at 7:11 AM N. Andrew Walsh
wrote:
> One question: you add some extra padding between the two variants with an
> \override; is there a way to do the same thing for modifying the padding
> between two PianoStaff groups (but not change the staff-staff spacing
> within each of them)?
>
Absolutely. Just one catch - it has to be done differently. For all the
gory details, I'm going to suggest you have a look through chapter 4 of the
Notation Reference, titled simply Spacing issues. It's at
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.25/Documentation/notation/spacing-issues
There's a lot in there, but the main thing to recognize and be aware of is
that different spacing settings get set in different places. Some can go in
a few different places (such as the staff-staff padding I added in the
example code), while others can only go in the paper block. And as it
happens, the setting you are asking about is one that has to go into the
paper block. If you already have a paper block (for example setting
margins or indents, that kind of thing) you can just add this in. But
basically what you'll need is something along the lines of:
\paper {
system-system-spacing.padding = #15
}
Here, system-system-spacing is the setting you want. And each setting has
sub-settings - basic-distance, minimum-distance, padding, and
stretchability. The docs I linked to above have all the details on what
each of those mean and how to go about changing them. The number is the
space measured in staff spaces. It'll probably take a bit of trial and
error to find the spacing you want, but it should be fairly straight
forward.
--
Michael
Re: Score structure with alternate endings
Hi Michael,
thank you so much for taking the time to write out an example. I was able
to modify it to work for two PianoStaff objects. One question: you add some
extra padding between the two variants with an \override; is there a way to
do the same thing for modifying the padding between two PianoStaff groups
(but not change the staff-staff spacing within each of them)?
Thanks again!
Andrew
er/ihn/ihm/sein | he/him/his
Berlin
On Wed, Nov 1, 2023 at 4:51 PM Michael Werner wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 1, 2023 at 10:59 AM N. Andrew Walsh
> wrote:
>
>> Hi List,
>>
>
> Hi Andrew,
>
>
>> I have a client who's written a piece where he wants the last 16 bars to
>> have two different variations, to be freely chosen by the performer. Sort
>> of a choose-your-own-adventure score. It's scored for two voices and piano,
>> but the ending(s) would only be the piano.
>>
>> So, grossly simplified, the score would have bars 1-53 as normal music,
>> and then the performer adds a coda of either "A" or "B", each of which is a
>> 16-bar section of one of the two variations. The bar numbers should be the
>> same.
>>
>> How would I structure the score to do this? I'm thinking it'd be
>> preferable to have the two variations on the top and bottom of each page,
>> so that it's clear they're parallel, but I'm not sure how to set it up.
>>
>
> Well, like many things with Lilypond I'm sure there's more than one way to
> do things. My take on this would be something like this:
>
> \version "2.25.9"
>
> length_of_main = #8
> length_of_alt = #4
>
> music_main = \relative c' {
> \repeat unfold \length_of_main { a4 b c d }
> %\break
> \repeat unfold \length_of_alt { s1 }
> }
>
> music_a = \relative c' {
> \repeat unfold \length_of_main { s1 }
> \break
> \sectionLabel \markup { \bold "A or B - pick one!" }
> \repeat unfold \length_of_alt { c4 b a b }
> }
>
> music_b = \relative c' {
> \repeat unfold \length_of_main { s1 }
> \repeat unfold \length_of_alt { e4 d c d }
> }
>
> \new StaffGroup
> <<
> \new Staff \with {
> instrumentName = "Main"
> shortInstrumentName = "Main"
> \RemoveAllEmptyStaves
> } \music_main
> \new Staff \with {
> instrumentName = "A"
> shortInstrumentName = "A"
> \RemoveAllEmptyStaves
> \override VerticalAxisGroup.staff-staff-spacing.padding = #8
> } \music_a
> \new Staff \with {
> instrumentName = "B"
> shortInstrumentName = "B"
> \RemoveAllEmptyStaves
> } \music_b
> >>
>
> Here, music_main is the first part of the music running along by itself,
> with music_a and music_b the two possible alternates. The main thing will
> be to watch the spacer rests at the beginning of music_a and music_b - they
> need to be the right number of measures worth. By using the variables in
> the unfold statement I find it a bit easier to keep track and make sure the
> right numbers are getting where they need to be. Also I've added some extra
> space between the two alternates, might reinforce that they're only sorta
> kinda together but not really.
>
> Don't know if this is quite what you're after, but maybe it'll at least
> serve as a starting point.
> --
> Michael
>
>
Re: Score structure with alternate endings
On Wed, Nov 1, 2023 at 10:59 AM N. Andrew Walsh
wrote:
> Hi List,
>
Hi Andrew,
> I have a client who's written a piece where he wants the last 16 bars to
> have two different variations, to be freely chosen by the performer. Sort
> of a choose-your-own-adventure score. It's scored for two voices and piano,
> but the ending(s) would only be the piano.
>
> So, grossly simplified, the score would have bars 1-53 as normal music,
> and then the performer adds a coda of either "A" or "B", each of which is a
> 16-bar section of one of the two variations. The bar numbers should be the
> same.
>
> How would I structure the score to do this? I'm thinking it'd be
> preferable to have the two variations on the top and bottom of each page,
> so that it's clear they're parallel, but I'm not sure how to set it up.
>
Well, like many things with Lilypond I'm sure there's more than one way to
do things. My take on this would be something like this:
\version "2.25.9"
length_of_main = #8
length_of_alt = #4
music_main = \relative c' {
\repeat unfold \length_of_main { a4 b c d }
%\break
\repeat unfold \length_of_alt { s1 }
}
music_a = \relative c' {
\repeat unfold \length_of_main { s1 }
\break
\sectionLabel \markup { \bold "A or B - pick one!" }
\repeat unfold \length_of_alt { c4 b a b }
}
music_b = \relative c' {
\repeat unfold \length_of_main { s1 }
\repeat unfold \length_of_alt { e4 d c d }
}
\new StaffGroup
<<
\new Staff \with {
instrumentName = "Main"
shortInstrumentName = "Main"
\RemoveAllEmptyStaves
} \music_main
\new Staff \with {
instrumentName = "A"
shortInstrumentName = "A"
\RemoveAllEmptyStaves
\override VerticalAxisGroup.staff-staff-spacing.padding = #8
} \music_a
\new Staff \with {
instrumentName = "B"
shortInstrumentName = "B"
\RemoveAllEmptyStaves
} \music_b
>>
Here, music_main is the first part of the music running along by itself,
with music_a and music_b the two possible alternates. The main thing will
be to watch the spacer rests at the beginning of music_a and music_b - they
need to be the right number of measures worth. By using the variables in
the unfold statement I find it a bit easier to keep track and make sure the
right numbers are getting where they need to be. Also I've added some extra
space between the two alternates, might reinforce that they're only sorta
kinda together but not really.
Don't know if this is quite what you're after, but maybe it'll at least
serve as a starting point.
--
Michael
Score structure with alternate endings
Hi List, I have a client who's written a piece where he wants the last 16 bars to have two different variations, to be freely chosen by the performer. Sort of a choose-your-own-adventure score. It's scored for two voices and piano, but the ending(s) would only be the piano. So, grossly simplified, the score would have bars 1-53 as normal music, and then the performer adds a coda of either "A" or "B", each of which is a 16-bar section of one of the two variations. The bar numbers should be the same. How would I structure the score to do this? I'm thinking it'd be preferable to have the two variations on the top and bottom of each page, so that it's clear they're parallel, but I'm not sure how to set it up. Thanks for the help! Andrew er/ihn/ihm/sein | he/him/his Berlin
