Re: Slurs, phrasing slurs and fingering
Hi David, http://lsr.dsi.unimi.it/LSR/Item?id=748 gave me exactly the answer I needed for the positions tweak. And the v2.17 documentation pointer you provided gave exactly the information I needed for understanding how to tweak a slur. Many thanks! Best regards, Olivier On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 6:19 PM, David Nalesnik wrote: > Hi Olivier, > > On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 10:31 AM, Olivier Biot > wrote: > > Dear all, > > > > I am now aware of the \shape + list of control point offsets tweak > thanks to > > this thread, but are there always 4 control points? > > Yes. TupletBracket used to have a 'control-points property that set > two control points, but that is no longer the case. > > > > > I am also aware of yet another tweak: \once \override Slur #'positions > (as > > in > > > http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.16/Documentation/learning/fixing-overlapping-notation > ) > > > > Where can I find the documentation and explanation for tweaking the > shape of > > slurs and phrasing slurs? > > The \shape function is documented in the 2.17 documentation here: > http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.17/Documentation/notation/modifying-shapes > > As far as 'positions, this snippet might be helpful to you: > http://lsr.dsi.unimi.it/LSR/Item?id=684 > > You can also do a displacement of 'positions values using this snippet: > http://lsr.dsi.unimi.it/LSR/Item?id=748 > > Note that you can override 'positions first to get a reasonable > approximation of the slur you want, and then use \shape to fine-tune > it. (You won't be able to use snippet 748 with \shape though.) > > Hope this helps, > David > ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Slurs, phrasing slurs and fingering
Hi Olivier, On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 10:31 AM, Olivier Biot wrote: > Dear all, > > I am now aware of the \shape + list of control point offsets tweak thanks to > this thread, but are there always 4 control points? Yes. TupletBracket used to have a 'control-points property that set two control points, but that is no longer the case. > > I am also aware of yet another tweak: \once \override Slur #'positions (as > in > http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.16/Documentation/learning/fixing-overlapping-notation) > > Where can I find the documentation and explanation for tweaking the shape of > slurs and phrasing slurs? The \shape function is documented in the 2.17 documentation here: http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.17/Documentation/notation/modifying-shapes As far as 'positions, this snippet might be helpful to you: http://lsr.dsi.unimi.it/LSR/Item?id=684 You can also do a displacement of 'positions values using this snippet: http://lsr.dsi.unimi.it/LSR/Item?id=748 Note that you can override 'positions first to get a reasonable approximation of the slur you want, and then use \shape to fine-tune it. (You won't be able to use snippet 748 with \shape though.) Hope this helps, David ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Slurs, phrasing slurs and fingering
Dear all, I am now aware of the \shape + list of control point offsets tweak thanks to this thread, but are there always 4 control points? I am also aware of yet another tweak: \once \override Slur #'positions (as in http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.16/Documentation/learning/fixing-overlapping-notation ) Where can I find the documentation and explanation for tweaking the shape of slurs and phrasing slurs? Best regards, Olivier ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Slurs, phrasing slurs and fingering
Am 03.12.2012 07:06, schrieb David Kastrup: > David Kastrup writes: > >> Noeck writes: >> >>> Why has that been inverted? To me, \shape PhrasingSlur #… is easier to >>> read than \shape #… PhrasingSlur. Could someone briefly explain the >>> reason for that? >> >> The old syntax was >> >> \shape PhrasingSlur #'((0 . 1) (0 . 1.8) (0 . 1.8) (0 . 0)) >> cis8 \( >> >> The new one supports either >> >> \shape #'((0 . 1) (0 . 1.8) (0 . 1.8) (0 . 0)) PhrasingSlur >> cis8 \( >> >> or >> >> cis8 -\shape #'((0 . 1) (0 . 1.8) (0 . 1.8) (0 . 0)) \( >> >> This saves you from having to remember that \( is a PhrasingSlur, and it >> makes it possible to change the shape of a double slur >> >> cis8 ^\( _\) >> >> by shaping each of the constituting slurs independently with its own >> call of \shape. > > This is not actually a full explanation since the tweak-like usage would > not strictly have necessitated switching the argument order. It turns > out, however, that if you stack more than one tweak-like command on the > same music expression, not having the music expression for each tweak > come last makes for a completely awful syntax, like > > cis8 -\shape \tweak #'color #red \( #'((0 . 1) (0 . 1.8) (0 . 1.8) (0. 0)) > > rather than > > cis8 -\shape #'((0 . 1) (0 . 1.8) (0 . 1.8) (0. 0)) \tweak #'color #red \( > Thanks a lot for explaining! Joram ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Slurs, phrasing slurs and fingering
Olivier Biot writes: > Many thanks for the help and for the extra clarifications regarding > usage of these tweaks. It is a nuisance if interfaces change, but sometimes it just takes some time and experience to figure out shortcomings of the initial design. Feel free to discuss anything new you find on the LilyPond issue tracker before it gets cast in (rather soft) stone. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Slurs, phrasing slurs and fingering
Many thanks for the help and for the extra clarifications regarding usage of these tweaks. Best regards, Olivier ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Slurs, phrasing slurs and fingering
David Kastrup writes: > Noeck writes: > >> Why has that been inverted? To me, \shape PhrasingSlur #… is easier to >> read than \shape #… PhrasingSlur. Could someone briefly explain the >> reason for that? > > The old syntax was > > \shape PhrasingSlur #'((0 . 1) (0 . 1.8) (0 . 1.8) (0 . 0)) > cis8 \( > > The new one supports either > > \shape #'((0 . 1) (0 . 1.8) (0 . 1.8) (0 . 0)) PhrasingSlur > cis8 \( > > or > > cis8 -\shape #'((0 . 1) (0 . 1.8) (0 . 1.8) (0 . 0)) \( > > This saves you from having to remember that \( is a PhrasingSlur, and it > makes it possible to change the shape of a double slur > > cis8 ^\( _\) > > by shaping each of the constituting slurs independently with its own > call of \shape. This is not actually a full explanation since the tweak-like usage would not strictly have necessitated switching the argument order. It turns out, however, that if you stack more than one tweak-like command on the same music expression, not having the music expression for each tweak come last makes for a completely awful syntax, like cis8 -\shape \tweak #'color #red \( #'((0 . 1) (0 . 1.8) (0 . 1.8) (0. 0)) rather than cis8 -\shape #'((0 . 1) (0 . 1.8) (0 . 1.8) (0. 0)) \tweak #'color #red \( -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Slurs, phrasing slurs and fingering
Noeck writes:
> Am 03.12.2012 00:29, schrieb David Nalesnik:
>
>>> \acciaccatura { e-\! } d4 \shape PhrasingSlur #'((0 . 1) (0 . 1.8) (0 . 1.8)
>>> (0 . 0))
>>>
>>
>> Nick has given you the new syntax (as of 2.17.4).
>>
>> -David
>
> Why has that been inverted? To me, \shape PhrasingSlur #… is easier to
> read than \shape #… PhrasingSlur. Could someone briefly explain the
> reason for that?
The old syntax was
\shape PhrasingSlur #'((0 . 1) (0 . 1.8) (0 . 1.8) (0 . 0))
cis8 \(
The new one supports either
\shape #'((0 . 1) (0 . 1.8) (0 . 1.8) (0 . 0)) PhrasingSlur
cis8 \(
or
cis8 -\shape #'((0 . 1) (0 . 1.8) (0 . 1.8) (0 . 0)) \(
This saves you from having to remember that \( is a PhrasingSlur, and it
makes it possible to change the shape of a double slur
cis8 ^\( _\)
by shaping each of the constituting slurs independently with its own
call of \shape.
--
David Kastrup
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Re: Slurs, phrasing slurs and fingering
2012/12/3 Noeck :
>
>
> Am 03.12.2012 00:29, schrieb David Nalesnik:
>
>>> \acciaccatura { e-\! } d4 \shape PhrasingSlur #'((0 . 1) (0 . 1.8) (0 . 1.8)
>>> (0 . 0))
>>>
>>
>> Nick has given you the new syntax (as of 2.17.4).
>>
>> -David
>
> Why has that been inverted? To me, \shape PhrasingSlur #… is easier to
> read than \shape #… PhrasingSlur. Could someone briefly explain the
> reason for that?
>
> Cheers,
> Joram
>
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Hi Joram,
AFAIR, the main reason was to achieve the possibility to use shape as
a tweak. So one has to make sure, that the last argument of the
function could be music.
2.16.1
shape =
#(define-music-function (parser location grob offsets)
(string? list?)
2.17.6
shape =
#(define-music-function (parser location offsets item)
(list? symbol-list-or-music?)
Cheers,
Harm
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Re: Slurs, phrasing slurs and fingering
Am 03.12.2012 00:29, schrieb David Nalesnik:
>> \acciaccatura { e-\! } d4 \shape PhrasingSlur #'((0 . 1) (0 . 1.8) (0 . 1.8)
>> (0 . 0))
>>
>
> Nick has given you the new syntax (as of 2.17.4).
>
> -David
Why has that been inverted? To me, \shape PhrasingSlur #… is easier to
read than \shape #… PhrasingSlur. Could someone briefly explain the
reason for that?
Cheers,
Joram
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Re: Slurs, phrasing slurs and fingering
Hi Olivier,
On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 5:16 PM, Olivier Biot wrote:
>
> I had to invert the control point list and the PhrasingSlur string in your
> solution to make it work, as in:
>
> \acciaccatura { e-\! } d4 \shape PhrasingSlur #'((0 . 1) (0 . 1.8) (0 . 1.8)
> (0 . 0))
>
Nick has given you the new syntax (as of 2.17.4).
-David
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Re: Slurs, phrasing slurs and fingering
On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 2:16 AM, Nick Payne wrote:
> On 02/12/12 10:46, Olivier Biot wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Is there a simple way to avoid fingerings from being overwritten with a
>> phrasing slur, like in the following measure?
>>
>> % BEGIN
>> \version "2.16.1"
>>
>> theMusic = \new Staff {
>> \relative d' {
>> \key f \major
>> \time 3/4
>> \clef "bass"
>> \acciaccatura { e-\! } d4 cis8-\> \( ( a'16-.-3 ) a-.-\! \)
>> }
>> }
>>
>> \score {
>> \theMusic
>>
>> \layout {
>> \context {
>> \Staff
>> \override Fingering #'add-stem-support = ##t
>> \override Fingering #'avoid-slur = #'outside
>> \override TupletBracket #'bracket-visibility = ##t
>> }
>> }
>> }
>> % END
>>
>> The following directive works for regular slurs:
>> \override Fingering #'avoid-slur = #'outside
>> However, phrasing slurs seem to be immune to this ovverride...
>>
>
> As (in this case) the slur and phrasing slur overlap even without the
> fingering, you might as well shape the phrasing slur to avoid both the slur
> and fingering.
>
>
> [snip]
> \acciaccatura { e-\! } d4 \shape #'((0 . 1) (0 . 1.8) (0 . 1.8) (0 .
> 0)) PhrasingSlur
> [/snip]
>
Hello Nick,
Thank you for your reply!
I had to invert the control point list and the PhrasingSlur string in your
solution to make it work, as in:
\acciaccatura { e-\! } d4 \shape PhrasingSlur #'((0 . 1) (0 . 1.8) (0 .
1.8) (0 . 0))
With that fix, the problem was entirely solved! Many thanks!!!
I really need to dig into these bezier/spline control point tweaks.
Best regards,
Olivier
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Re: Slurs, phrasing slurs and fingering
On 02/12/12 10:46, Olivier Biot wrote:
Hi all,
Is there a simple way to avoid fingerings from being overwritten with
a phrasing slur, like in the following measure?
% BEGIN
\version "2.16.1"
theMusic = \new Staff {
\relative d' {
\key f \major
\time 3/4
\clef "bass"
\acciaccatura { e-\! } d4 cis8-\> \( ( a'16-.-3 ) a-.-\! \)
}
}
\score {
\theMusic
\layout {
\context {
\Staff
\override Fingering #'add-stem-support = ##t
\override Fingering #'avoid-slur = #'outside
\override TupletBracket #'bracket-visibility = ##t
}
}
}
% END
The following directive works for regular slurs:
\override Fingering #'avoid-slur = #'outside
However, phrasing slurs seem to be immune to this ovverride...
As (in this case) the slur and phrasing slur overlap even without the
fingering, you might as well shape the phrasing slur to avoid both the
slur and fingering.
\version "2.16.1"
theMusic = \new Staff {
\relative d' {
\key f \major
\time 3/4
\clef "bass"
\acciaccatura { e-\! } d4 \shape #'((0 . 1) (0 . 1.8) (0 . 1.8) (0
. 0)) PhrasingSlur
cis8-\> \( ( a'16-.-3 ) a-.-\! \)
}
}
\score {
\theMusic
\layout {
\context {
\Staff
\override Fingering #'add-stem-support = ##t
\override Fingering #'avoid-slur = #'outside
\override TupletBracket #'bracket-visibility = ##t
}
}
}
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Slurs, phrasing slurs and fingering
Hi all,
Is there a simple way to avoid fingerings from being overwritten with a
phrasing slur, like in the following measure?
% BEGIN
\version "2.16.1"
theMusic = \new Staff {
\relative d' {
\key f \major
\time 3/4
\clef "bass"
\acciaccatura { e-\! } d4 cis8-\> \( ( a'16-.-3 ) a-.-\! \)
}
}
\score {
\theMusic
\layout {
\context {
\Staff
\override Fingering #'add-stem-support = ##t
\override Fingering #'avoid-slur = #'outside
\override TupletBracket #'bracket-visibility = ##t
}
}
}
% END
The following directive works for regular slurs:
\override Fingering #'avoid-slur = #'outside
However, phrasing slurs seem to be immune to this ovverride...
Best regards,
Olivier
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