Re: StaffSymbol: behaviour of ledger-line-thickness
thanks for the quick answer. I tried now to figure out how to apply changes to StaffSymbol properties. It seems they work only as \with \override for a new staff or inside the layout block. That would mean that they cannot be changed on the fly but are preset for every score. Is this correct? Till Original-Nachricht Datum: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 18:32:51 +0200 Von: Reinhold Kainhofer [EMAIL PROTECTED] An: lilypond-user@gnu.org, till Rettig [EMAIL PROTECTED] Betreff: Re: StaffSymbol: behaviour of ledger-line-thickness Am Montag, 31. März 2008 schrieb till Rettig: Hi, could somebody explain me how ledger-line-thickness behaves? The IR states that it should be a pair: ledger-line-thickness (pair of numbers) The thickness of ledger lines. It is the sum of 2 numbers: The first is the factor for line thickness, and the second for staff space. Both contributions are added. But I cannot get the staff space bigger (the second number), instead the first number influences the thickness of the ledger line a bit, the second quite much, that is it becomes so heavy that the spaces almost disappear. Yes, because they use different units: -) The first one is a multiplier for the default thickness (quite small, ~ staff-space/10 ) -) The second one is an explicit width (in staff spaces, i.e. the default distance between two staff lines or ledger lines) The final distance is then: ( thickness * line-thickness * #1 ) + #2 Since the default thickness is quite small, of course the first number influences the width only a little bit, while the second (measured in different units!) increases it a lot. Actually, the following two settings produce roughly the same (i.e. ledger lines so thick that they touch each other: \override StaffSymbol #'ledger-line-thickness = #'( 10 . 0 ) \override StaffSymbol #'ledger-line-thickness = #'( 0 . 1 ) And, yes, even Han-Wen agrees that this is confusing. See his comment in lily/staff-symbol.cc: /* For raggedright without ragged staves, simply set width to the linewidth. (ok -- lousy UI, since width is in staff spaces) --hwn. */ the second quite much, that is it becomes so heavy that the spaces almost disappear. Please compare the example: Things work as expected: The default line width is quite small and the first number is a multiplier for the default line width. The second one gives an additional width in staff space (i.e. the distance between each of the five lines of a standard staff). \override StaffSymbol #' ledger-line-thickness = #' ( 1 . .1 ) This uses the default line width + 1/10 of the staff space = 1/5 staff space \override StaffSymbol #' ledger-line-thickness = #' ( .1 . 1 ) This decreases the line with to 1/10 of its default (1/100 staff space!), but adds a full staff space (=distance between two ledger lines!), so of course all ledger lines touch each other. Cheers, Reinhold -- -- Reinhold Kainhofer, Vienna University of Technology, Austria email: [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://reinhold.kainhofer.com/ * Financial and Actuarial Mathematics, TU Wien, http://www.fam.tuwien.ac.at/ * K Desktop Environment, http://www.kde.org, KOrganizer maintainer * Chorvereinigung Jung-Wien, http://www.jung-wien.at/ -- Pt! Schon vom neuen GMX MultiMessenger gehört? Der kann`s mit allen: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/multimessenger ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: StaffSymbol: behaviour of ledger-line-thickness
The properties of a layout object are only read when the object is created, so for StaffSymbol, for example, this means that you have to do the setting at the top of the score. However, if you want to change it in the middle of a score, you can insert \stopStaff \startStaff which finishes the previous StaffSymbol object and creates a new one which reads the new property setting. /Mats till Rettig wrote: thanks for the quick answer. I tried now to figure out how to apply changes to StaffSymbol properties. It seems they work only as \with \override for a new staff or inside the layout block. That would mean that they cannot be changed on the fly but are preset for every score. Is this correct? Till Original-Nachricht Datum: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 18:32:51 +0200 Von: Reinhold Kainhofer [EMAIL PROTECTED] An: lilypond-user@gnu.org, till Rettig [EMAIL PROTECTED] Betreff: Re: StaffSymbol: behaviour of ledger-line-thickness Am Montag, 31. März 2008 schrieb till Rettig: Hi, could somebody explain me how ledger-line-thickness behaves? The IR states that it should be a pair: ledger-line-thickness (pair of numbers) The thickness of ledger lines. It is the sum of 2 numbers: The first is the factor for line thickness, and the second for staff space. Both contributions are added. But I cannot get the staff space bigger (the second number), instead the first number influences the thickness of the ledger line a bit, the second quite much, that is it becomes so heavy that the spaces almost disappear. Yes, because they use different units: -) The first one is a multiplier for the default thickness (quite small, ~ staff-space/10 ) -) The second one is an explicit width (in staff spaces, i.e. the default distance between two staff lines or ledger lines) The final distance is then: ( thickness * line-thickness * #1 ) + #2 Since the default thickness is quite small, of course the first number influences the width only a little bit, while the second (measured in different units!) increases it a lot. Actually, the following two settings produce roughly the same (i.e. ledger lines so thick that they touch each other: \override StaffSymbol #'ledger-line-thickness = #'( 10 . 0 ) \override StaffSymbol #'ledger-line-thickness = #'( 0 . 1 ) And, yes, even Han-Wen agrees that this is confusing. See his comment in lily/staff-symbol.cc: /* For raggedright without ragged staves, simply set width to the linewidth. (ok -- lousy UI, since width is in staff spaces) --hwn. */ the second quite much, that is it becomes so heavy that the spaces almost disappear. Please compare the example: Things work as expected: The default line width is quite small and the first number is a multiplier for the default line width. The second one gives an additional width in staff space (i.e. the distance between each of the five lines of a standard staff). \override StaffSymbol #' ledger-line-thickness = #' ( 1 . .1 ) This uses the default line width + 1/10 of the staff space = 1/5 staff space \override StaffSymbol #' ledger-line-thickness = #' ( .1 . 1 ) This decreases the line with to 1/10 of its default (1/100 staff space!), but adds a full staff space (=distance between two ledger lines!), so of course all ledger lines touch each other. Cheers, Reinhold -- -- Reinhold Kainhofer, Vienna University of Technology, Austria email: [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://reinhold.kainhofer.com/ * Financial and Actuarial Mathematics, TU Wien, http://www.fam.tuwien.ac.at/ * K Desktop Environment, http://www.kde.org, KOrganizer maintainer * Chorvereinigung Jung-Wien, http://www.jung-wien.at/ -- = Mats Bengtsson Signal Processing School of Electrical Engineering Royal Institute of Technology (KTH) SE-100 44 STOCKHOLM Sweden Phone: (+46) 8 790 8463 Fax: (+46) 8 790 7260 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] WWW: http://www.s3.kth.se/~mabe = ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: StaffSymbol: behaviour of ledger-line-thickness
Oh, that's true, I will write this in the staff section of the Docu. Thanks for all the help! Greetings Till Mats Bengtsson schrieb: The properties of a layout object are only read when the object is created, so for StaffSymbol, for example, this means that you have to do the setting at the top of the score. However, if you want to change it in the middle of a score, you can insert \stopStaff \startStaff which finishes the previous StaffSymbol object and creates a new one which reads the new property setting. /Mats till Rettig wrote: thanks for the quick answer. I tried now to figure out how to apply changes to StaffSymbol properties. It seems they work only as \with \override for a new staff or inside the layout block. That would mean that they cannot be changed on the fly but are preset for every score. Is this correct? Till Original-Nachricht Datum: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 18:32:51 +0200 Von: Reinhold Kainhofer [EMAIL PROTECTED] An: lilypond-user@gnu.org, till Rettig [EMAIL PROTECTED] Betreff: Re: StaffSymbol: behaviour of ledger-line-thickness Am Montag, 31. März 2008 schrieb till Rettig: Hi, could somebody explain me how ledger-line-thickness behaves? The IR states that it should be a pair: ledger-line-thickness (pair of numbers) The thickness of ledger lines. It is the sum of 2 numbers: The first is the factor for line thickness, and the second for staff space. Both contributions are added. But I cannot get the staff space bigger (the second number), instead the first number influences the thickness of the ledger line a bit, the second quite much, that is it becomes so heavy that the spaces almost disappear. Yes, because they use different units: -) The first one is a multiplier for the default thickness (quite small, ~ staff-space/10 ) -) The second one is an explicit width (in staff spaces, i.e. the default distance between two staff lines or ledger lines) The final distance is then: ( thickness * line-thickness * #1 ) + #2 Since the default thickness is quite small, of course the first number influences the width only a little bit, while the second (measured in different units!) increases it a lot. Actually, the following two settings produce roughly the same (i.e. ledger lines so thick that they touch each other: \override StaffSymbol #'ledger-line-thickness = #'( 10 . 0 ) \override StaffSymbol #'ledger-line-thickness = #'( 0 . 1 ) And, yes, even Han-Wen agrees that this is confusing. See his comment in lily/staff-symbol.cc: /* For raggedright without ragged staves, simply set width to the linewidth. (ok -- lousy UI, since width is in staff spaces) --hwn. */ the second quite much, that is it becomes so heavy that the spaces almost disappear. Please compare the example: Things work as expected: The default line width is quite small and the first number is a multiplier for the default line width. The second one gives an additional width in staff space (i.e. the distance between each of the five lines of a standard staff). \override StaffSymbol #' ledger-line-thickness = #' ( 1 . .1 ) This uses the default line width + 1/10 of the staff space = 1/5 staff space \override StaffSymbol #' ledger-line-thickness = #' ( .1 . 1 ) This decreases the line with to 1/10 of its default (1/100 staff space!), but adds a full staff space (=distance between two ledger lines!), so of course all ledger lines touch each other. Cheers, Reinhold -- -- Reinhold Kainhofer, Vienna University of Technology, Austria email: [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://reinhold.kainhofer.com/ * Financial and Actuarial Mathematics, TU Wien, http://www.fam.tuwien.ac.at/ * K Desktop Environment, http://www.kde.org, KOrganizer maintainer * Chorvereinigung Jung-Wien, http://www.jung-wien.at/ ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
StaffSymbol: behaviour of ledger-line-thickness
Hi,
could somebody explain me how ledger-line-thickness behaves? The IR states that
it should be a pair:
ledger-line-thickness (pair of numbers)
The thickness of ledger lines. It is the sum of 2 numbers: The first is the
factor for line thickness, and the second for staff space. Both contributions
are added.
But I cannot get the staff space bigger (the second number), instead the first
number influences the thickness of the ledger line a bit, the second quite
much, that is it becomes so heavy that the spaces almost disappear.
Please compare the example:
\score{
\new Staff \with {
\override StaffSymbol #' ledger-line-thickness = #' ( 1 . .1 )
}{
d d d d
} }
\score{
\new Staff \with {
\override StaffSymbol #' ledger-line-thickness = #' ( .1 . 1 )
}{
d d d d
} }
\score{
\new Staff \with {
\override StaffSymbol #' ledger-line-thickness = #' ( .1 . .1 )
}{
d d d d
} }
\score{
\new Staff \with {
\override StaffSymbol #' ledger-line-thickness = #' ( 1 . 1 )
}{
d d d d
} }
What am I missing here? How is this supposed to work?
I was on 2.11.34, if it matters.
Thanks
Till
--
Psst! Geheimtipp: Online Games kostenlos spielen bei den GMX Free Games!
http://games.entertainment.gmx.net/de/entertainment/games/free
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Re: StaffSymbol: behaviour of ledger-line-thickness
Am Montag, 31. März 2008 schrieb till Rettig: Hi, could somebody explain me how ledger-line-thickness behaves? The IR states that it should be a pair: ledger-line-thickness (pair of numbers) The thickness of ledger lines. It is the sum of 2 numbers: The first is the factor for line thickness, and the second for staff space. Both contributions are added. But I cannot get the staff space bigger (the second number), instead the first number influences the thickness of the ledger line a bit, the second quite much, that is it becomes so heavy that the spaces almost disappear. Yes, because they use different units: -) The first one is a multiplier for the default thickness (quite small, ~ staff-space/10 ) -) The second one is an explicit width (in staff spaces, i.e. the default distance between two staff lines or ledger lines) The final distance is then: ( thickness * line-thickness * #1 ) + #2 Since the default thickness is quite small, of course the first number influences the width only a little bit, while the second (measured in different units!) increases it a lot. Actually, the following two settings produce roughly the same (i.e. ledger lines so thick that they touch each other: \override StaffSymbol #'ledger-line-thickness = #'( 10 . 0 ) \override StaffSymbol #'ledger-line-thickness = #'( 0 . 1 ) And, yes, even Han-Wen agrees that this is confusing. See his comment in lily/staff-symbol.cc: /* For raggedright without ragged staves, simply set width to the linewidth. (ok -- lousy UI, since width is in staff spaces) --hwn. */ the second quite much, that is it becomes so heavy that the spaces almost disappear. Please compare the example: Things work as expected: The default line width is quite small and the first number is a multiplier for the default line width. The second one gives an additional width in staff space (i.e. the distance between each of the five lines of a standard staff). \override StaffSymbol #' ledger-line-thickness = #' ( 1 . .1 ) This uses the default line width + 1/10 of the staff space = 1/5 staff space \override StaffSymbol #' ledger-line-thickness = #' ( .1 . 1 ) This decreases the line with to 1/10 of its default (1/100 staff space!), but adds a full staff space (=distance between two ledger lines!), so of course all ledger lines touch each other. Cheers, Reinhold -- -- Reinhold Kainhofer, Vienna University of Technology, Austria email: [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://reinhold.kainhofer.com/ * Financial and Actuarial Mathematics, TU Wien, http://www.fam.tuwien.ac.at/ * K Desktop Environment, http://www.kde.org, KOrganizer maintainer * Chorvereinigung Jung-Wien, http://www.jung-wien.at/ ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: StaffSymbol: behaviour of ledger-line-thickness
I have no inside information about this, but my reading of the description
in the IR is that the thickness of the ledger line is determined as the sum
of two parts:
ledger-line-thickness = the value of line-thickness * the first number + the
value of staff-space * the second number.
The default value is line-thickness * 1.0 + staff-space * 0.1. The staff
spacing itself is not influenced by these numbers, but can be changed as the
staff-space property of StaffSymbol (but this will also change the spacing
of all staff lines, not just ledger lines).
Trevor D
- Original Message -
From: till Rettig [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: lilypond-user@gnu.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 4:34 PM
Subject: StaffSymbol: behaviour of ledger-line-thickness
Hi,
could somebody explain me how ledger-line-thickness behaves? The IR states
that it should be a pair:
ledger-line-thickness (pair of numbers)
The thickness of ledger lines. It is the sum of 2 numbers: The first is
the factor for line thickness, and the second for staff space. Both
contributions are added.
But I cannot get the staff space bigger (the second number), instead the
first number influences the thickness of the ledger line a bit, the second
quite much, that is it becomes so heavy that the spaces almost disappear.
Please compare the example:
\score{
\new Staff \with {
\override StaffSymbol #' ledger-line-thickness = #' ( 1 . .1 )
}{
d d d d
} }
\score{
\new Staff \with {
\override StaffSymbol #' ledger-line-thickness = #' ( .1 . 1 )
}{
d d d d
} }
\score{
\new Staff \with {
\override StaffSymbol #' ledger-line-thickness = #' ( .1 . .1 )
}{
d d d d
} }
\score{
\new Staff \with {
\override StaffSymbol #' ledger-line-thickness = #' ( 1 . 1 )
}{
d d d d
} }
What am I missing here? How is this supposed to work?
I was on 2.11.34, if it matters.
Thanks
Till
--
Psst! Geheimtipp: Online Games kostenlos spielen bei den GMX Free Games!
http://games.entertainment.gmx.net/de/entertainment/games/free
___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: StaffSymbol: behaviour of ledger-line-thickness
Am Montag, 31. März 2008 schrieb Reinhold Kainhofer: Am Montag, 31. März 2008 schrieb till Rettig: Hi, could somebody explain me how ledger-line-thickness behaves? [...] But I cannot get the staff space bigger (the second number), The final distance is then: ( thickness * line-thickness * #1 ) + #2 Sorry, s/distance/thickness/, of course! (The distance of the ledger lines can't be changed by ledger-line-*thickness*) Cheers, Reinhold -- -- Reinhold Kainhofer, Vienna University of Technology, Austria email: [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://reinhold.kainhofer.com/ * Financial and Actuarial Mathematics, TU Wien, http://www.fam.tuwien.ac.at/ * K Desktop Environment, http://www.kde.org, KOrganizer maintainer * Chorvereinigung Jung-Wien, http://www.jung-wien.at/ ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
