Template management for LilyPond

[markjulie.com]

I am a new user to LilyPond 2.18.2 and Frescobaldi 2.20.0 having 
previously used Finale on MacOS. I would like to save some of the 
templates from the LilyPond documentation. I would like them to be 
available in the cloud (Google, Dropbox, or iCloud) for access on 
several of my devices.


Is there a folder in Application Support that I have not found? I could 
save the templates as .ly files or .txt files to a folder, but it is 
preferable to use New From Template -> then have the same templates 
available to multiple devices.


Mark

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Re: Template management for LilyPond

[Sandro Santilli]

On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 05:32:43PM -0400, markjulie.com wrote:
> I am a new user to LilyPond 2.18.2 and Frescobaldi 2.20.0 having previously
> used Finale on MacOS. I would like to save some of the templates from the
> LilyPond documentation. I would like them to be available in the cloud
> (Google, Dropbox, or iCloud) for access on several of my devices.
> 
> Is there a folder in Application Support that I have not found? I could save
> the templates as .ly files or .txt files to a folder, but it is preferable
> to use New From Template -> then have the same templates available to
> multiple devices.

I don't know how Google, Dropbox or iCloud work but NextCloud
(http://nextcloud.org) has client apps that let you keep a local
folder in sync with the server (and thus all the other connected clients).

All the chain (server and client) is open source.

--strk;

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Re: Template management for LilyPond

[Michael Hendry]

> On 24 Apr 2019, at 22:32, markjulie.com  wrote:
> 
> I am a new user to LilyPond 2.18.2 and Frescobaldi 2.20.0 having previously 
> used Finale on MacOS. I would like to save some of the templates from the 
> LilyPond documentation. I would like them to be available in the cloud 
> (Google, Dropbox, or iCloud) for access on several of my devices.
> 
> Is there a folder in Application Support that I have not found? I could save 
> the templates as .ly files or .txt files to a folder, but it is preferable to 
> use New From Template -> then have the same templates available to multiple 
> devices.
> 
> Mark

I haven’t actually used Dropbox with Lilypond and Frescobaldi, but I use it for 
a lot of music-related activities, particularly to keep jazz lead sheets on 
iPads and a laptop in sync with my iMac.

I can’t see your having any problem in accessing your template files - or 
indeed your .ly library - using Dropbox across numerous devices.

Michael


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Re: Template management for LilyPond

[Andrew Bernard]

Hi Mark,

In F. templates appear to be stored as snippets. This brings up the
interesting question of where in the file system snippets are stored.
Despite having used F, for years, I have no idea, and a search of my Linux
filesystems reveals nothing obvious. Perhaps they are in a database format
and not plain text files.

Does anybody know? [I supppose I better read the source code.]

If this question is answered, your solution is (possibly) easy - move that
folder to Dropbox or similar.

Andrew
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Re: Template management for LilyPond

[J Martin Rushton]

On 25/04/2019 12:07, Andrew Bernard wrote:
> Hi Mark,
> 
> In F. templates appear to be stored as snippets. This brings up the
> interesting question of where in the file system snippets are stored.
> Despite having used F, for years, I have no idea, and a search of my
> Linux filesystems reveals nothing obvious. Perhaps they are in a
> database format and not plain text files.
> 
> Does anybody know? [I supppose I better read the source code.]
> 
> If this question is answered, your solution is (possibly) easy - move
> that folder to Dropbox or similar.
> 
> Andrew
> 
> 
> 
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$HOME/.config/frescobaldi/frescobaldi.conf

section [snippets]

Contains standard templates (which you may edit) plus any you have created.

-- 
J Martin Rushton MBCS



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Re: Template management for LilyPond

[Sven Axelsson]

On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 at 13:08, Andrew Bernard 
wrote:

> Hi Mark,
>
> In F. templates appear to be stored as snippets. This brings up the
> interesting question of where in the file system snippets are stored.
> Despite having used F, for years, I have no idea, and a search of my Linux
> filesystems reveals nothing obvious. Perhaps they are in a database format
> and not plain text files.
>
> Does anybody know? [I supppose I better read the source code.]
>

At least in Frescobaldi 2, snippets and templates are not stored as files
but kept in the application settings file. This makes it hard to share them
between machines. On a Mac the file is here:
~/Library/Preferences/com.frescobaldi.frescobaldi.plist. On Linux it should
be somewhere in ~/.config, and on Windows settings are kept in the
Registry.

-- 
Sven Axelsson
++[>++>+++>++>++
><-]>.+..>+.>+.<<-.>>+.>.<<.
+++.>-.<<++.>>.<++.>>>++..>>.<.
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Re: Template management for LilyPond

[Andrew Bernard]

Hi Sven,

That's terrible - storing potentially very large blocks of text in the
Windows registry. Given that the OP's request is very reasonable, this
sounds like the basis for a change request to Frescobaldi, to expose the
templates and snippets in a more accessible way. That would be something I
would be interested to work on. i think the concept of storing config and
data in a remote cloud enviroment post dates the original invention of
Frescobaldi, but it's a really good idea.

I'd prefer to change the subject here to Template management in
Frescobaldi, because that is what we are talking about.

Andrew


On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 at 22:00, Sven Axelsson  wrote:

>
> At least in Frescobaldi 2, snippets and templates are not stored as files
> but kept in the application settings file. This makes it hard to share them
> between machines. On a Mac the file is here:
> ~/Library/Preferences/com.frescobaldi.frescobaldi.plist. On Linux it should
> be somewhere in ~/.config, and on Windows settings are kept in the
> Registry.
>
>
>
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Re: Template management for LilyPond

[Urs Liska]

Am 25. April 2019 14:00:04 MESZ schrieb Sven Axelsson :
>On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 at 13:08, Andrew Bernard 
>wrote:
>
>> Hi Mark,
>>
>> In F. templates appear to be stored as snippets. This brings up the
>> interesting question of where in the file system snippets are stored.
>> Despite having used F, for years, I have no idea, and a search of my
>Linux
>> filesystems reveals nothing obvious. Perhaps they are in a database
>format
>> and not plain text files.
>>
>> Does anybody know? [I supppose I better read the source code.]
>>
>
>At least in Frescobaldi 2, snippets and templates are not stored as
>files
>but kept in the application settings file. This makes it hard to share
>them
>between machines. On a Mac the file is here:
>~/Library/Preferences/com.frescobaldi.frescobaldi.plist. On Linux it
>should
>be somewhere in ~/.config, and on Windows settings are kept in the
>Registry.

I think it would be a valid feature request to (additionally) support an 
external folder  to load templates from or save them to.

This should not be difficult but I can't afford looking into it since I 
absolutely don't need it personally.

If you create an entry in the issue tracker 
(https://github.com/frescobaldi/frescobaldi/issues) I'll add the "wish" and 
"beginner" labels to it.

Best
Urs

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Re: Template management for LilyPond

[Michael Hendry]

> On 25 Apr 2019, at 13:00, Sven Axelsson  wrote:
> 
> ~/Library/Preferences/com.frescobaldi.frescobaldi.plist

This file doesn’t exist on my iMac, although I’ve been using Frescobaldi for (? 
>5) years.

I’d been in the habit of using my own template files directly from the working 
directory they’d been developed in, simply opening the file in Frescobaldi and 
Saving As into a new directory under a new name before starting on the 
specifics of a new piece.

Now that I come to look at Templates from the Frescobaldi menu (File -> New 
from Template) I see that I’d discovered this feature in the past, copied a 
template into Frescobaldi, and then forgotten about it!

Thinking about the directory structure needed for a Dropbox-supported 
multi-user setup, I realise that \include files would have to be supported too.

~/Dropbox/Lilypond would have several subdirectories:

e.g.
…/Template
…/Include
…/Working/Composition1
…/Working/Composition2

etc.

Frescobaldi would have to be set up to add the …/Include directory to the 
include path.

Assuming only one individual is working on the compositions, but from different 
computers, there wouldn’t be a problem with write-permissions, but care would 
have to be taken if the OP is part of a team.

This could be achieved without any need to request changes in Frescobaldi.

Michael
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Re: Template management for LilyPond

[Andrew Bernard]

Hi Michael,

But the OP was not requiring a multiuser development environment, but a
multi-device one. For multiple users on one project surely you would use
git nowadays, on github or your own server, pretty much the universal
answer (because it works so well).

The issue is about sharing _templates_ and _snippets_ not includes. I am
going to start on modifying F. to support that. Should not be difficult.
It's a logical request, and an idea that would not have been thought of
before cloud services became widely available.

Sure, you can load a file and 'save as'. But 'new from template' is
currently supported and a nice function.

Andrew




On Fri, 26 Apr 2019 at 01:43, Michael Hendry 
wrote:

>
> This could be achieved without any need to request changes in Frescobaldi.
>
>
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Re: Template management for LilyPond

[Michael Hendry]

> On 26 Apr 2019, at 00:49, Andrew Bernard  wrote:
> 
> Hi Michael,
> 
> But the OP was not requiring a multiuser development environment, but a 
> multi-device one.

Indeed - but no harm in looking at other possibilities if planning a request 
for changes in Frescobaldi.

> For multiple users on one project surely you would use git nowadays, on 
> github or your own server, pretty much the universal answer (because it works 
> so well).

Being an elderly and amateur single-user, I have limited experience of GitHub, 
but I take your point.

> 
> The issue is about sharing _templates_ and _snippets_ not includes. I am 
> going to start on modifying F. to support that. Should not be difficult. It's 
> a logical request, and an idea that would not have been thought of before 
> cloud services became widely available.

I can accept the idea that snippets should stand on their own feet and be 
complete in themselves, but I envisage a template as being larger — perhaps one 
of a family of similar entities. In this context it makes a lot of sense to use 
\include files for code which is common to all. In the event that a bug in such 
a code fragment is discovered, it doesn’t need to be fixed in every file of 
which it would necessarily be a part if you excluded the use of \includes. This 
happened to me recently when a change in Lilypond version made illegal a piece 
of code which I had previously got away with!

> 
> Sure, you can load a file and 'save as'. But 'new from template' is currently 
> supported and a nice function.

Absolutely right - I’ll be using it from now on now that I’ve “rediscovered” it!

Michael


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Re: Template management for LilyPond

[Urs Liska]

Am 26.04.19 um 01:49 schrieb Andrew Bernard:

Hi Michael,

But the OP was not requiring a multiuser development environment, but 
a multi-device one. For multiple users on one project surely you would 
use git nowadays, on github or your own server, pretty much the 
universal answer (because it works so well).


The issue is about sharing _templates_ and _snippets_ not includes. I 
am going to start on modifying F. to support that. Should not be 
difficult. It's a logical request, and an idea that would not have 
been thought of before cloud services became widely available.


Sure, you can load a file and 'save as'. But 'new from template' is 
currently supported and a nice function.



One wish for a file based solution is a session-specific template 
directory, similar to session-specific include paths. It seems pretty 
logical to me that specific projects require specific templates. I often 
have projects with numerous input files, say, segments of the work or 
multiple standalone snippets/examples, which can go in the three- or 
four-digit range. New from Template would be great for that to have.


Urs




Andrew




On Fri, 26 Apr 2019 at 01:43, Michael Hendry > wrote:



This could be achieved without any need to request changes in
Frescobaldi.


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