Re: Uninstalling Liliypond
I will write up something for you. In fact, I will also write a description of the steps to install LilyPondTool. It took me at least 4 hours to find the information from the web sites for java, jedit and LPT and figure out what to do and not to do. Oops, that's quite much. So you could write some lines about installing for pure users? It would be quite hard for me to write a correct install guide, because I always have 4 or 5 versions of jEdit, Java and LilyPond and LilyPondTool hanging around on my machine :-) And I suggest pointing me the best place to place this guide to. Because I could write the guide in 3 lines (Install Java, Install JEdit, Install LilyPondTool plugin), but I'm not sure thet people will find this. Since java and jedit are very general purpose progs I could write a simple summary that applies to linux and Lilypond. Marty ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Uninstalling Liliypond
2008/1/7, Bertalan Fodor (LilyPondTool) [EMAIL PROTECTED]: And I suggest pointing me the best place to place this guide to. Because I could write the guide in 3 lines (Install Java, Install JEdit, Install LilyPondTool plugin), but I'm not sure thet people will find this. The normal place would be 2.2.3 in the Application Usage guide; however, I'd like to add @ref links everywhere I can. For example, there's currently *no* place were it's specified that you actually *have* to have a text editor installed on your box. In fact, I would even mention it in the Tutorial's First-steps (I know it's theoretically not convenient, but this is the only place we can reasonable hope that newcomers will look at). Cheers, Valentin ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Uninstalling Liliypond
I would mention it on the main page of LilyPond, like this: Get Started Now! Choose your platform: Linux Windows Mac Most people (including me) never reads any documentation in the first place. Starting to use lilypond (or any software) should definitely work without reading a single word of the manual. People are especially scared by the followings: making choices and reading documentation. So inexperienced users should not decide anything. How could they decide e.g. if they need the development or the stable version? Then he goes with the instable LilyPond, the stable jEdit and Java 1.4 And finds that nothing works. Valentin Villenave wrote: 2008/1/7, Bertalan Fodor (LilyPondTool) [EMAIL PROTECTED]: And I suggest pointing me the best place to place this guide to. Because I could write the guide in 3 lines (Install Java, Install JEdit, Install LilyPondTool plugin), but I'm not sure thet people will find this. The normal place would be 2.2.3 in the Application Usage guide; however, I'd like to add @ref links everywhere I can. For example, there's currently *no* place were it's specified that you actually *have* to have a text editor installed on your box. In fact, I would even mention it in the Tutorial's First-steps (I know it's theoretically not convenient, but this is the only place we can reasonable hope that newcomers will look at). Cheers, Valentin ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Uninstalling Liliypond
2008/1/7, Bertalan Fodor (LilyPondTool) [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I would mention it on the main page of LilyPond, like this: Get Started Now! Choose your platform: Linux Windows Mac On http://www.videolan.org/ they even have a script that detects your OS (even your distro), and changes the page accordingly. So inexperienced users should not decide anything. How could they decide e.g. if they need the development or the stable version? Then he goes with the instable LilyPond, the stable jEdit and Java 1.4 And finds that nothing works. You have a point here. I've just been doing HTML/CSS for 24 hours; could you possibly send me a draft based on your idea? If you do not have time right now, I will come up with something but maybe in a few days :) Cheers, Valentin ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Uninstalling Liliypond
Bertalan Fodor (LilyPondTool) wrote: Most people (including me) never reads any documentation in the first place. Starting to use lilypond (or any software) should definitely work without reading a single word of the manual. People are especially scared by the followings: making choices and reading documentation. Honestly, would you expect any user to be able to do any real-world typesetting with LilyPond without reading a single word in the manual? Even though you have done a great job in LilyPondTool, I still think there's a huge step compared to using a WYSIWYG program like Finale or Sibelius or ... Therefore, my approach has always been to tell new users right away that they will have to read the tutorial. (On the other hand, you probably need to do quite some reading to produce the desired layout using these commercial programs as well, but that's may just be my prejudices, I don't have any user experience of these programs. I have played from a number of ill prepared scores, though). /Mats ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Uninstalling Liliypond
Well, I used Finale before LilyPond for 3 years and also created a score with Sibelius. Actually making advanced progress with Finale or Sibelius does require the manual, but for simple scores you don't need it. I'm just talking about the first impression, not even real typesetting. I think we should make the user to go as far as possible without written manual. Actually we needn't make LilyPond completely usable without reading the manual. We just should make users not scared of using an environment and style of computer usage completely unfamiliar for them. Make them confident that they can easily create scores: trust us, just click on this exe and write c d e f - you can do it. Bert Mats Bengtsson wrote: Bertalan Fodor (LilyPondTool) wrote: Most people (including me) never reads any documentation in the first place. Starting to use lilypond (or any software) should definitely work without reading a single word of the manual. People are especially scared by the followings: making choices and reading documentation. Honestly, would you expect any user to be able to do any real-world typesetting with LilyPond without reading a single word in the manual? Even though you have done a great job in LilyPondTool, I still think there's a huge step compared to using a WYSIWYG program like Finale or Sibelius or ... Therefore, my approach has always been to tell new users right away that they will have to read the tutorial. (On the other hand, you probably need to do quite some reading to produce the desired layout using these commercial programs as well, but that's may just be my prejudices, I don't have any user experience of these programs. I have played from a number of ill prepared scores, though). /Mats ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Uninstalling Liliypond
2008/1/7, Mats Bengtsson [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Honestly, would you expect any user to be able to do any real-world typesetting with LilyPond without reading a single word in the manual? Not real-world typesetting. But at least (partially) understand and compile the first-run example file. When writing EasyLilyPond, I have completely rewritten and expanded the default windows-lilypad file that normally opens when you just double-click on the Desktop icon (see attached file for the English version). I don't claim that it's a perfect solution; it's full of comments and is clearly meant to be read through a syntax-coloration editor like jEdit (my only point was to make sure that the default example file could be localized in the user's language). But nevertheless, any user that has just installed the program will be tempted to run it and see what it can do, and possibly understand the most basic concept behind it (and you know how particularly important is this first basic understanding in LilyPond). I think that's what Bertalan was refering to. you have done a great job in LilyPondTool, I still think there's a huge step compared to using a WYSIWYG program like Finale or Sibelius or ... The first thing you do when discovering such a program is still to open one of the provided example files. If I might refer to EasyLilyPond again, in addition to the Launcher I wrote, I made the installer automatically add a shortcut to LilyPond Example files, on the Desktop. (It's a bit intrusive, but the user can still remove it whenever he wants). Plus, thanks to the existing Windows installation script, you only have to double click on a .ly to get a nice PDF. There again, I agree with Bertalan on the first feeling thing: I've just downloaded and installed LilyPond, Ok, let's see what it can do; oh, weird no window opens but -- hey, look at this PDF that has just appeared! Wow, what a nice score! Let's see how it's made... Then, two possibilities: -I just can't get how it's made and how to use it; I'll just uninstall it and forget it -omg, quite complicated actually. Let's see if there's any Tutorial somewhere... 2008/1/7, Bertalan Fodor (LilyPondTool) [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Actually we needn't make LilyPond completely usable without reading the manual. We just should make users not scared. That was my whole point. But you're more concise than I am :) Cheers, Valentin welcome.ly Description: Binary data ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Uninstalling Liliypond
2008/1/4, Martin Nopola [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I think it should be in the doc Appendix. Absolutely, it should be more clearly documented! I'd suggest adding it in the Application Usage, after http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.11/Documentation/user/lilypond-program/Precompiled-binaries Can you suggest a formulation, or even write it yourself? I'll happily correct it if needed, and add it myself (if Graham is okay with it). (Plus, I don't forget I have to add a few words on the msysgit stuff.) Cheers, Valentin ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Uninstalling Liliypond
On Friday 04 January 2008 20:05, you wrote: 2008/1/4, Martin Nopola [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I think it should be in the doc Appendix. Absolutely, it should be more clearly documented! I'd suggest adding it in the Application Usage, after http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.11/Documentation/user/lilypond-prog ram/Precompiled-binaries Can you suggest a formulation, or even write it yourself? I'll happily correct it if needed, and add it myself (if Graham is okay with it). I will write up something for you. In fact, I will also write a description of the steps to install LilyPondTool. It took me at least 4 hours to find the information from the web sites for java, jedit and LPT and figure out what to do and not to do. Since java and jedit are very general purpose progs I could write a simple summary that applies to linux and Lilypond. Marty ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Uninstalling Liliypond
I have searched everywhere for the uninstall command so I can install the newest version which I downloaded for Linux. I remember seeing it when I installed v 2.10.15. How do i do it? Is it still necessary to uninstall first? Marty ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Uninstalling Liliypond
Which operating system? On Windows, it's in the Start menu - All Programs - LilyPond - On Linux, just run the command uninstall-lilypond. On Mac, I don't know. /Mats Martin Nopola wrote: I have searched everywhere for the uninstall command so I can install the newest version which I downloaded for Linux. I remember seeing it when I installed v 2.10.15. How do i do it? Is it still necessary to uninstall first? Marty ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user -- = Mats Bengtsson Signal Processing Signals, Sensors and Systems Royal Institute of Technology SE-100 44 STOCKHOLM Sweden Phone: (+46) 8 790 8463 Fax: (+46) 8 790 7260 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] WWW: http://www.s3.kth.se/~mabe = ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Uninstalling Liliypond
2008/1/3, Mats Bengtsson [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Which operating system? He said linux, didn't he :) On Linux, just run the command uninstall-lilypond. ...preferably as root (or use sudo). Cheers, Valentin ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Uninstalling Liliypond
Mats Bengtsson wrote: Which operating system? On Windows, it's in the Start menu - All Programs - LilyPond - On Linux, just run the command uninstall-lilypond. On Mac, I don't know. /Mats Martin Nopola wrote: I have searched everywhere for the uninstall command so I can install the newest version which I downloaded for Linux. I remember seeing it when I installed v 2.10.15. How do i do it? Is it still necessary to uninstall first? Marty ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user If you have an rpm based system and installed it from the distribution then use your tool to uninstall it. It will remove everything. If you upgrade from your distribution, you don't need to uninstall the old version. Thomas ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
