lilypond teaching material

2015-09-16 Thread BB 

Obviously the Lilypond users are overaged?

Is there a kind of "curriculum", eventually with Open Office overhead 
slides ready to use for an introductory training on an adult education 
center (in Germany Volkshochschule (VHS)) available.  May be some 
skilled users ma offer such an itroduction to raise lilyponds 
popularity? Usually there are offered weekend workshops or courses 
regular an evening per week for people in work. Eventually it might be 
used in music education on schools?


Regards

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Re: lilypond teaching material

2015-09-16 Thread Urs Liska 


Am 16.09.2015 um 11:49 schrieb BB:
> I just read
> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/learning/entering-input.html
> (again). I find that is a good basis for such an introduction, but I
> think it needs some beef up to become more entertaining than lecturing.
> But I actually do not have an idea how to manage that? In my opinion
> there are much more instructive examples and exercises for reinforcement
> learning needed.
> 
> 

Well, recently I started an initiative for a "book" on LilyPond etc.,
which is located at http://book.openlilylib.org.
It came to a stop because I switched to a new server, but now that I've
(nearly) managed to do that I'll get back to this and will soon ask for
contribution.

One thing I want to have in that collection of resources is an
introduction to the toolchain that is explicitly written from the
perspective of users who are accustomed to Finale and the like.
Something like: "Your are used to have one GUI for entering scores, then
export image files or whatever that you then include in
Word/InDesign/... documents. With LilyPond you will have ... and need
..., and this will work together like ..."

Urs

> 
> On 16.09.2015 11:24, Urs Liska wrote:
>>
>> Am 16.09.2015 um 11:14 schrieb BB:
>>> Obviously the Lilypond users are overaged?
>> I very much hope that our recent "inofficial survey" is biased for
>> whatever reasons. But I admit this impression is very strong.
>>
>>> Is there a kind of "curriculum", eventually with Open Office overhead
>>> slides ready to use for an introductory training on an adult education
>>> center (in Germany Volkshochschule (VHS)) available.
>> Not that I know of, but it's a good idea, and I've had the wish to start
>> compiling such material for quite a long time. Unfortunately that
>> probably won't happen without a concrete opportunity.
>>
>>> May be some
>>> skilled users ma offer such an itroduction to raise lilyponds
>>> popularity? Usually there are offered weekend workshops or courses
>>> regular an evening per week for people in work. Eventually it might be
>>> used in music education on schools?
>> Good idea.
>> I know that in some universities there are people offering LilyPond
>> courses, with mixed result/acceptance. But it definitely should be much
>> more, and I think people should get hooked to text based tools as early
>> as possible, before they are too much tied to their shiny clickediclick
>> tools.
>>
>> Urs
>>
>>> Regards
>>>
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> 
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Re: lilypond teaching material

2015-09-16 Thread Urs Liska 


Am 16.09.2015 um 11:14 schrieb BB:
> Obviously the Lilypond users are overaged?

I very much hope that our recent "inofficial survey" is biased for
whatever reasons. But I admit this impression is very strong.

> 
> Is there a kind of "curriculum", eventually with Open Office overhead
> slides ready to use for an introductory training on an adult education
> center (in Germany Volkshochschule (VHS)) available.  

Not that I know of, but it's a good idea, and I've had the wish to start
compiling such material for quite a long time. Unfortunately that
probably won't happen without a concrete opportunity.

> May be some
> skilled users ma offer such an itroduction to raise lilyponds
> popularity? Usually there are offered weekend workshops or courses
> regular an evening per week for people in work. Eventually it might be
> used in music education on schools?

Good idea.
I know that in some universities there are people offering LilyPond
courses, with mixed result/acceptance. But it definitely should be much
more, and I think people should get hooked to text based tools as early
as possible, before they are too much tied to their shiny clickediclick
tools.

Urs

> 
> Regards
> 
> ___
> lilypond-user mailing list
> lilypond-user@gnu.org
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

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Re: lilypond teaching material

2015-09-16 Thread BB 

I just read
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/learning/entering-input.html
(again). I find that is a good basis for such an introduction, but I 
think it needs some beef up to become more entertaining than lecturing. 
But I actually do not have an idea how to manage that? In my opinion 
there are much more instructive examples and exercises for reinforcement 
learning needed.




On 16.09.2015 11:24, Urs Liska wrote:


Am 16.09.2015 um 11:14 schrieb BB:

Obviously the Lilypond users are overaged?

I very much hope that our recent "inofficial survey" is biased for
whatever reasons. But I admit this impression is very strong.


Is there a kind of "curriculum", eventually with Open Office overhead
slides ready to use for an introductory training on an adult education
center (in Germany Volkshochschule (VHS)) available.

Not that I know of, but it's a good idea, and I've had the wish to start
compiling such material for quite a long time. Unfortunately that
probably won't happen without a concrete opportunity.


May be some
skilled users ma offer such an itroduction to raise lilyponds
popularity? Usually there are offered weekend workshops or courses
regular an evening per week for people in work. Eventually it might be
used in music education on schools?

Good idea.
I know that in some universities there are people offering LilyPond
courses, with mixed result/acceptance. But it definitely should be much
more, and I think people should get hooked to text based tools as early
as possible, before they are too much tied to their shiny clickediclick
tools.

Urs


Regards

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Re: lilypond teaching material

2015-09-16 Thread Mats Bengtsson 
Gilles  harfang.homelinux.org> writes:

> 
> On Wed, 16 Sep 2015 13:04:24 +0200, David Kastrup wrote:
> > Gilles  harfang.homelinux.org> writes:
> >
> >> Hello.
> >>
> >> On Wed, 16 Sep 2015 11:49:04 +0200, BB wrote:
> >>> I just read
> >>>
> >>> 
> >>> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/learning/entering-input.html
> >>> (again). I find that is a good basis for such an introduction,

How about the video tutorials linked from there, see
http://benlemon.me/blog/music/lilypond/operation-lilypond

   /Mats


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Re: lilypond teaching material

2015-09-16 Thread Gilles 

Hello.

On Wed, 16 Sep 2015 11:49:04 +0200, BB wrote:

I just read

http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/learning/entering-input.html
(again). I find that is a good basis for such an introduction,


IIRC, someone (among the most prominent current or past developers)
once stated that this first example being compilable by lilypond had
been a big mistake.

Perhaps it was meant to show people that text input is not scary.
But its simplicity is deceitful: no actual score is that simple; even
a monophonic instrument part should not be encoded that way.


but I
think it needs some beef up to become more entertaining than
lecturing. But I actually do not have an idea how to manage that? In
my opinion there are much more instructive examples and exercises for
reinforcement learning needed.


The strategy will probably depend on the target audience and purpose.

IMHO, the starting point should be a real score whose input contains
all the bits that most people would use in the majority of their
projects: score (and MIDI) blocks, header, systems, full score and
instrument parts.

A composer/publisher will not be scared that a work needs to have
some kind of organization/layout.

Some people will be afraid (i.e. won't be interested) by text input
whatever advantage list you will throw at them.
Those should be taught how to use a [FLOSS GUI] that depends on
LilyPond for its rendering.


Best regards,
Gilles


On 16.09.2015 11:24, Urs Liska wrote:


Am 16.09.2015 um 11:14 schrieb BB:

Obviously the Lilypond users are overaged?

I very much hope that our recent "inofficial survey" is biased for
whatever reasons. But I admit this impression is very strong.

Is there a kind of "curriculum", eventually with Open Office 
overhead
slides ready to use for an introductory training on an adult 
education

center (in Germany Volkshochschule (VHS)) available.
Not that I know of, but it's a good idea, and I've had the wish to 
start

compiling such material for quite a long time. Unfortunately that
probably won't happen without a concrete opportunity.


May be some
skilled users ma offer such an itroduction to raise lilyponds
popularity? Usually there are offered weekend workshops or courses
regular an evening per week for people in work. Eventually it might 
be

used in music education on schools?

Good idea.
I know that in some universities there are people offering LilyPond
courses, with mixed result/acceptance. But it definitely should be 
much
more, and I think people should get hooked to text based tools as 
early
as possible, before they are too much tied to their shiny 
clickediclick

tools.

Urs


Regards




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Re: lilypond teaching material

2015-09-16 Thread Gilles 

On Wed, 16 Sep 2015 13:04:24 +0200, David Kastrup wrote:

Gilles  writes:


Hello.

On Wed, 16 Sep 2015 11:49:04 +0200, BB wrote:

I just read


http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/learning/entering-input.html
(again). I find that is a good basis for such an introduction,


IIRC, someone (among the most prominent current or past developers)
once stated that this first example being compilable by lilypond had
been a big mistake.


Well, I think it should specify a note duration for the first note.
Other than that, I find nothing wrong with it.


Perhaps it was meant to show people that text input is not scary.
But its simplicity is deceitful: no actual score is that simple; 
even

a monophonic instrument part should not be encoded that way.


Hacking down some melody tends to be rather similar to that.  Many 
tunes
in abc format look pretty much like that and transfer reasonably well 
to

LilyPond input of that complexity.


Would someone switch to lilypond just for this kind of work?

I did not to argue in that direction (lesser complex scores), but even 
so:

where is the title of the tune? ;-)

Gilles


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Re: lilypond teaching material

2015-09-16 Thread David Kastrup 
Gilles  writes:

> Hello.
>
> On Wed, 16 Sep 2015 11:49:04 +0200, BB wrote:
>> I just read
>>
>> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/learning/entering-input.html
>> (again). I find that is a good basis for such an introduction,
>
> IIRC, someone (among the most prominent current or past developers)
> once stated that this first example being compilable by lilypond had
> been a big mistake.

Well, I think it should specify a note duration for the first note.
Other than that, I find nothing wrong with it.

> Perhaps it was meant to show people that text input is not scary.
> But its simplicity is deceitful: no actual score is that simple; even
> a monophonic instrument part should not be encoded that way.

Hacking down some melody tends to be rather similar to that.  Many tunes
in abc format look pretty much like that and transfer reasonably well to
LilyPond input of that complexity.

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: lilypond teaching material

2015-09-16 Thread Michael Rivers 
Yes, that was my first thought too. Those video tutorials are quite nice.



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Re: lilypond teaching material

2015-09-16 Thread Karen S. Billings 
I definitely agree - the videos are extremely helpful!

Karen

> On Sep 16, 2015, at 10:24 AM, Michael Rivers <michaeljriv...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Yes, that was my first thought too. Those video tutorials are quite nice.
> 
> 
> 
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/lilypond-teaching-material-tp181185p181226.html
> Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> 
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Re: lilypond teaching material

2015-09-16 Thread Andrew Bernard 
Hi Gilles,

It’s in the line of what is called a ‘Hello World’ program in computing. It’s 
the bare minimum that compiles and runs and outputs something absolutely 
minimal, and establishes that all your machinery is up and running and that you 
can go on from there. In this respect, it’s a perfectly good example, and 
useful for people starting. You have to start somewhere, and presenting a 
complete lilypond score skeleton with all its complexities can come later.


Andrew





On 16/09/2015, 20:57, "Gilles" 
 wrote:

>Hello.
>
>On Wed, 16 Sep 2015 11:49:04 +0200, BB wrote:
>> I just read
>> 
>> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/learning/entering-input.html
>> (again). I find that is a good basis for such an introduction,
>
>IIRC, someone (among the most prominent current or past developers)
>once stated that this first example being compilable by lilypond had
>been a big mistake.
>
>Perhaps it was meant to show people that text input is not scary.
>But its simplicity is deceitful: no actual score is that simple; even
>a monophonic instrument part should not be encoded that way.
>
>>


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