Re: calling all opera/musical engravers
Valentin Villenave writes: > - Trust not only the program but the community. I can’t count the > hundreds of times where I got stuck, angstily asked a crucial question > and got my life-defining answer WITHIN MINUTES. Every roadblock I > encountered evidently wasn’t _that_ much of a big deal, That's like saying a trill on fingers 4-5 with a roll on a violin evidently isn't that much of a big deal when you ask the right person. > but you tend to lack objectivity when it comes to your own work and > everything seems desperately adverse. But the point is: once you asked the right person, you can use his version of the trill in your result. You can use "sampling". And the instrument gets nicer through the years. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: calling all opera/musical engravers
On Sat, Dec 28, 2013 at 3:22 PM, Kieren MacMillan wrote: > Best, I suppose, would be to have a calculated default with a manual override > option. =) Hi Kieren, I’m a bit late but: I did use LilyPond for long and complex scores (operas tend to be a LOT less complex than chamber music or solo piano music, at least in my experience). - I don’t care much for lilypond-book. Never have used it nor required it. - I never needed to use anything other than plain vanilla LilyPond. (Which didn’t keep me from trying, just ’cause I can.) - In this regard, I also favor staying as close to the default layout as possible. Every tweak you make is an additional risk of trouble to come with future versions. - Much like everybody (I guess?) I did use several Scheme macros, but that was mostly for convenience (for example not having to type the full syntax every time I want a frigging tuplet, or not having to add staccato dots after each and every note). My coding habits and tastes have evolved quite a bit over time, so that’s hardly relevant to your own needs. - Contemporary notation is quite achievable in LilyPond, especially compared to, well, anything else. Complex rhythms, multiple simultaneous meters, weird instrument-specific graphical gizmos, microtones, you name it. You have to trust the program. Just take a deep breath and dive in. - I have _absolute_ trust in the program. But also in its evolution: every time I thought something couldn’t be done, someone went and fixed it: -> I was fortunate enough to publish my first opera at the exact time when Nicolas Sceaux added the \bookpart thingy, which was _immensely_ helpful (and part of the reason why lilypond-book isn’t required IMO). -> Most of the stuff I really, really wanted to do but couldn’t is now quite easily achievable thanks to David’s work over the past couple of years. -> The only missing feature that made me pull my head off, was the need for a neo-modern accidental style; I offered Rune Zedeler to add it for a fee, which he very competently did. -> Even when what you’re looking at seems depressingly buggy, that doesn’t mean it will be forever. Years later when I tried and recompile my code (minus a few syntax updates, albeit quite minor), the layout and spacing had greatly improved. - Trust not only the program but the community. I can’t count the hundreds of times where I got stuck, angstily asked a crucial question and got my life-defining answer WITHIN MINUTES. Every roadblock I encountered evidently wasn’t _that_ much of a big deal, but you tend to lack objectivity when it comes to your own work and everything seems desperately adverse. The point is: stop hesitating and go. LilyPond will take you *anywhere* you need; what it will not do is write the score on its own nor make you decide what you want to write. But as long as you can overcome your own uncertainties and tell LilyPond what you envision with sufficient clarity, it *will* take you anywhere. - Needless to say, you know where to find me if you have any doubts, questions, regrets or jokes you want to share :-) Hope this helps -- And a happy new year to you! Cheers, Valentin. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: calling all opera/musical engravers
Hi Jean-Charles, > Best would be to have it “calculated" I disagree: I would definitely want a non-calculated option, as I often have to set the page number manually. Best, I suppose, would be to have a calculated default with a manual override option. =) Cheers, Kieren. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: calling all opera/musical engravers
Le 27/12/2013 03:54, Kieren MacMillan disait :
Hi Jean-Charles,
Problem is that the reset occurs at _every_ book-part; you then cannot open a
part on an act basis.
There should be a property:
\paper {
first-page-number = 3
}
That would solve it! =)
Best would be to have it "calculated": let's say you print in letter and
I in A4, you should then first compile "Der fliegende Holländer" I sent
you in a previous life, check where act 2 begins, update the source, and
produce your PDF…
Cheers,
Jean-Charles
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Re: calling all opera/musical engravers
Hi Jean-Charles,
> Problem is that the reset occurs at _every_ book-part; you then cannot open a
> part on an act basis.
There should be a property:
\paper {
first-page-number = 3
}
That would solve it! =)
Cheers,
Kieren.
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Re: calling all opera/musical engravers
Le 22/12/2013 01:23, Kieren MacMillan disait : For Bach, thanks to David Nalesnik and Thomas Morley, a function to center an unique note and align it with R1\fermataMarkup (like in old scores). Nice! Is that part of the regular distro now? No. By the way, you've to be absolutely sure there is not any item (pitch or rest) in any voice that doesn't last this entire measure, otherwise you'll overload your computer… 4. What limitations cannot [currently] be overcome? Resetting the page number at the beginning of the musical material (after preface and libretto). Do you know about bookpart-page-number? Problem is that the reset occurs at _every_ book-part; you then cannot open a part on an act basis. Paths to explore might come from http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2012-08/msg00665.html http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2013-03/msg00909.html http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2013-10/msg00920.html Cheers, Jean-Charles ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: calling all opera/musical engravers
Would you mind explaining that code? My scheme is, alas, nearly nonexistent, and I have a project where I would like to change what is page one. On Dec 21, 2013, at 7:23 PM, Kieren MacMillan wrote: > Hi Jean-Charles, > > Thanks for the response. > >> Have you looked at Nicolas Sceaux's works (http://nicolas.sceaux.free.fr/)? > > Yes… but I’ll do so again. > >> Lily took care of everything. > > That’s good to know — Lily’s all I’ve been using to date (except for the odd > “academic” paper). > >> For Bach, thanks to David Nalesnik and Thomas Morley, a function to center >> an unique note and align it with R1\fermataMarkup (like in old scores). > > Nice! Is that part of the regular distro now? > >>> 3. What pitfalls are to be watched for (and hopefully avoided)? >> Part combining needs sometime to use tags in order to be correctly presented >> to the conductor. > > I’m going to start a whole new \partcombine thread/discussion, to see if we > can knock that whole workflow out of the park. > >>> 4. What limitations cannot [currently] be overcome? >> Resetting the page number at the beginning of the musical material (after >> preface and libretto). > > Do you know about bookpart-page-number? > > #(define-markup-command (bookpart-page-number layout props) () >(let ((first-page-number (ly:output-def-lookup layout 'first-page-number)) > (page-number (chain-assoc-get 'page:page-number props 0))) > (interpret-markup layout props (format "~a" (1+ (- page-number > first-page-number)) > > Cheers, > Kieren. > ___ > lilypond-user mailing list > lilypond-user@gnu.org > https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: calling all opera/musical engravers
Hi Jean-Charles, Thanks for the response. > Have you looked at Nicolas Sceaux's works (http://nicolas.sceaux.free.fr/)? Yes… but I’ll do so again. > Lily took care of everything. That’s good to know — Lily’s all I’ve been using to date (except for the odd “academic” paper). > For Bach, thanks to David Nalesnik and Thomas Morley, a function to center an > unique note and align it with R1\fermataMarkup (like in old scores). Nice! Is that part of the regular distro now? >> 3. What pitfalls are to be watched for (and hopefully avoided)? > Part combining needs sometime to use tags in order to be correctly presented > to the conductor. I’m going to start a whole new \partcombine thread/discussion, to see if we can knock that whole workflow out of the park. >> 4. What limitations cannot [currently] be overcome? > Resetting the page number at the beginning of the musical material (after > preface and libretto). Do you know about bookpart-page-number? #(define-markup-command (bookpart-page-number layout props) () (let ((first-page-number (ly:output-def-lookup layout 'first-page-number)) (page-number (chain-assoc-get 'page:page-number props 0))) (interpret-markup layout props (format "~a" (1+ (- page-number first-page-number)) Cheers, Kieren. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: opera/musical engravers
Hi Jay, > I am finished with my latest opera "The Map” Congratulations! > we're starting a kickstarter proposal in January or Feb. Good luck — keep us updated on your progress. > I did not use lily -book That seems to be the consensus. (I’ve only used -book for “academic” purposes, e.g., papers comprising mostly text, with a few musical examples — all of my “scores with text” have been in Lilypond proper, and apparently it will stay that way.) > Since I do not use bar lines when I compose it also allowed me to introduce > time signatures where they were needed in the top voice at all times. For me, that’s a separate — and important — issue that I’m working to solve. > the 'problems' with lily's transpositions. Another separate and important issue to solve. Thanks! Kieren. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: calling all opera/musical engravers
Le 16/12/2013 22:59, Kieren MacMillan disait : Hello all! I would love to hear from anyone who has engraved a full opera or musical (with at least vocal score plus full score) in Lilypond. Have you looked at Nicolas Sceaux's works (http://nicolas.sceaux.free.fr/)? For my part, I re-typeset King Arthur, which is available on IMSLP (http://imslp.org/wiki/King_Arthur_%28Purcell,_Henry%29) -- only missing are the scenic indications -- and BWV 246 (http://imslp.org/wiki/Lukaspassion,_BWV_246_%28Bach,_Johann_Sebastian%29). Specifically: 1. Is lilypond-book the only sane way to do it? Lily took care of everything. 2. What functions/extensions/tricks did you use to bend Lily to your will? Some of Nicolas' tweaks and functions were very useful. For Bach, thanks to David Nalesnik and Thomas Morley, a function to center an unique note and align it with R1\fermataMarkup (like in old scores). For King Arthur, which was performed last year (my wife as choir director and pupils from the music school in the orchestra), character and instrument names, as well as the table of contents are defined in different files (one in English and one in French) that I include through a specific file once for all. 3. What pitfalls are to be watched for (and hopefully avoided)? Part combining needs sometime to use tags in order to be correctly presented to the conductor. 4. What limitations cannot [currently] be overcome? Resetting the page number at the beginning of the musical material (after preface and libretto). Cheers, Jean-Charles ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: calling all opera/musical engravers
Valentin did his full opera, "Affaire Etrangere", with Lilypond: http://wiki.lilynet.net/-Opera- M. On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 4:59 PM, Kieren MacMillan < kieren_macmil...@sympatico.ca> wrote: > Hello all! > > I would love to hear from anyone who has engraved a full opera or musical > (with at least vocal score plus full score) in Lilypond. > > Specifically: > 1. Is lilypond-book the only sane way to do it? > 2. What functions/extensions/tricks did you use to bend Lily to your will? > 3. What pitfalls are to be watched for (and hopefully avoided)? > 4. What limitations cannot [currently] be overcome? > > Thanks, > Kieren. > ___ > lilypond-user mailing list > lilypond-user@gnu.org > https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user > ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: calling all opera/musical engravers
Hi Kieren, I did a lot of choral pieces. In November there was a public performance of "Der einhundertvierte Psalm" of "Engelhard Barthe" (1906-1977, musician at St.Katharinen in Hamburg, Germany, until destruction in world war II) in Hamburg, where I produced (co-working with Barthe's family) all performance material using lilypond. And I created a book with songs of "Friedrich Ferdinand Leo" (1867-1948) for voice and piano and I created a book with a-cappella works of "Thomas Dittmann" (1931-1998), musician at St.Katharinen, Hamburg, Germany from 1957 to 1994. 1. For anything, wich is mainly music, lilypond-book doesn't make to much sense (IMO!) So, I wouldn't start to engrave an opera (or musical or oratory like the mentioned psalm) using lilypond book. I started to transcribe a book of Dittmann about organ improvisation, where I am using lilypond-book. 2. I collected a lot of shortcut-helper-functions wich are loaded automatically with my lalily-framework ( https://github.com/jpvoigt/lalily ... should now work well with 2.17.96). And lalily has its own way of organizing templates, paper, layout and header. This way several parts of a book or a piece with multiple movements can be collected by lilypond. 3. there are some, but how to name them? 4. there is always a workaround ... wait, one thing would be to use different music-fonts ... or better, to make it easier (I know of lily-jazz and gonville) Just some thoughts. Best, Jan-Peter Am 16.12.2013 22:59, schrieb Kieren MacMillan: > Hello all! > > I would love to hear from anyone who has engraved a full opera or musical > (with at least vocal score plus full score) in Lilypond. > > Specifically: > 1. Is lilypond-book the only sane way to do it? > 2. What functions/extensions/tricks did you use to bend Lily to your will? > 3. What pitfalls are to be watched for (and hopefully avoided)? > 4. What limitations cannot [currently] be overcome? > > Thanks, > Kieren. > ___ > lilypond-user mailing list > lilypond-user@gnu.org > https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user > ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: calling all opera/musical engravers
Am 16.12.2013 22:59, schrieb Kieren MacMillan: Hello all! I would love to hear from anyone who has engraved a full opera or musical (with at least vocal score plus full score) in Lilypond. First of all: I haven't done this yet. I've only recently prepared a book where music and text/other have been mixed mostly on whole pages. (you may have a look at http://lilypondblog.org/2013/12/using-latex-for-a-musical-edition/ if you want). Specifically: 1. Is lilypond-book the only sane way to do it? It may or may not help you, but you could have a quick look at http://openlilylib.org/musicexamples/ In its current form it probably isn't usable for your purpose, but I intend to extend the package considerably. I want to enable it (through Lua in LuaLaTeX) to handle embedded LilyPond code (that also includes referenced external files). The idea is that it would do about the same as lilypond-book, but from _within_ the LaTeX process. This would have the advantages - not to need intermediate files (i.e. having to trade off cluttering the working dir and having relative path issues) - being able to compile the input file directly without preprocessing it. Urs ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: calling all opera/musical engravers
On Dec 16, 2013, at 11:59 PM, Kieren MacMillan wrote: > Hello all! > > I would love to hear from anyone who has engraved a full opera or musical > (with at least vocal score plus full score) in Lilypond. > > Specifically: > 1. Is lilypond-book the only sane way to do it? I don’t use LilyPond book for my stage works - just the prefaces. > 2. What functions/extensions/tricks did you use to bend Lily to your will? Lots - nothing unanswerable by this list if you have questions. > 3. What pitfalls are to be watched for (and hopefully avoided)? Make sure to separate out content and layout info as much as possible. > 4. What limitations cannot [currently] be overcome? I have a piece where several characters are singing in different time-signatures freely and they switch at certain cues. It requires floating bits of music to appear all over the page, and LilyPond is not really designed for that. I wound up typesetting the individual bits and importing them into inkscape for the layout. This type of layout is not crazy enough to warrant doing outside of LilyPond - there should be a way to line up floating staves based on anchors. There are lots of ways to go about this, but the one I’m most excited about would be making markups more object oriented and then creating spacing engines that line up markups based on anchors. Cheers, MS ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
re: opera/musical engravers
Kieran- I am finished with my latest opera "The Map" we're starting a kickstarter proposal in January or Feb. The director and conductor are on board, auditions probably in Sept '14. 8 singers, 8 instrumentalists, minimal spoken dialogue fully scored out. I did not use lily -book it was/is easier for me to adjust page numbers per scene since there are always rewrites and scene changes (there have been two so far). I did set up a full score template and adjusted it per scene, this turned out easier for me than to create a new one for each one. Since I do not use bar lines when I compose it also allowed me to introduce time signatures where they were needed in the top voice at all times. The score is in c with accidentals in forget as when printing the parts it will make it easier for me to understand the 'problems' with lily's transpositions. Doing this in probably not the prettiest code and in most likely unfashionable way allows me the greater freedom to understand what was going on while engraving. Hope this helps a bit. Jay Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 16:59:28 -0500 From: Kieren MacMillan To: Lilypond-User Mailing List Subject: calling all opera/musical engravers Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello all! I would love to hear from anyone who has engraved a full opera or musical (with at least vocal score plus full score) in Lilypond. Specifically: 1. Is lilypond-book the only sane way to do it? 2. What functions/extensions/tricks did you use to bend Lily to your will? 3. What pitfalls are to be watched for (and hopefully avoided)? 4. What limitations cannot [currently] be overcome? Thanks, Kieren. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: calling all opera/musical engravers
Dear Kieren and all, Il 16/12/2013 22:59, Kieren MacMillan ha scritto: I would love to hear from anyone who has engraved a full opera or musical (with at least vocal score plus full score) in Lilypond. I engraved the critical edition of Traetta's /Enea nel Lazio/ in full score. It's a 18th century Italian opera seria: surely less challengin to engrave than more recent compositions. 1. Is lilypond-book the only sane way to do it? Due to the strict articulation in recitatives and arias typical of this musical form, I found convenient writing a separated file for every piece and include all the ones relative to a single act in a "container" file. I put my customized settings (overrides and so on) and the layout instructions in two separated files, included in the other ones. 2. What functions/extensions/tricks did you use to bend Lily to your will? I created some modified articulation and dynamic marks for distinguish the elements added by me frome the ones of the original score; I created a sign of "long fermata"; I adjusted a little the appoggiatura slurs in order to avoid collisions with stem and ledgers of the relative note; and I implemented Harm's workaround for display the hyphens of syllables positioned at the beginning of a new line, http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=1722 3. What pitfalls are to be watched for (and hopefully avoided)? Creating too large and/or complex files! My score was about 430 pages, and I had to split it in four parts - one for every act and an appendix - to compiling without congest my computer. 4. What limitations cannot [currently] be overcome? In some circumstances, it would be useful having the opportunity to adjust the spacing "on the fly": i.e., altering the distances between two staves from a given point to another. But I can understand this is a very hard issue, and that a somewhat analogue result can be obtained starting and stopping the staves. Thanks to all of you! Luca -- Caselle da 1GB, trasmetti allegati fino a 3GB e in piu' IMAP, POP3 e SMTP autenticato? GRATIS solo con Email.it http://www.email.it/f Sponsor: Z-Ultimate: il tuo mondo a portata di mano, sempre! Diamo spazio alla tua sicurezza con il BACKUP. * 30 GB per gestire email e condividere files, scopri l'offerta Clicca qui: http://adv.email.it/cgi-bin/foclick.cgi?mid=13178&d=17-12 ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: calling all opera/musical engravers
I haven't done one but I am keen to learn. If those who know don't mind me asking what their strategies/workflows are like for such huge works? Thanks -- View this message in context: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/calling-all-opera-musical-engravers-tp156024p156026.html Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: calling all opera/musical engravers
Kieren: > I would love to hear from anyone who has engraved a full opera or > musical (with at least vocal score plus full score) in Lilypond. If you count H.Purcells Dido et Æneas for a "full" opera, take a look at: http://turkos.aspodata.se/noter/dido_et_aeneas/ > Specifically: > 1. Is lilypond-book the only sane way to do it? No, nowadays I genereate the eps's (as if I was running ly..-book), then \input the xx-systems.tex from latex. I got fed up of the anonymous lily-.. files and when I started this lilypond-book didn't handle the dependancies right. Perhaps it does now. > 2. What functions/extensions/tricks did you use to bend Lily to your will? Have a look at the makefile in: http://turkos.aspodata.se/git/musik/include/ > 3. What pitfalls are to be watched for (and hopefully avoided)? > 4. What limitations cannot [currently] be overcome? Cannot answer thoose two right now. Regards, /Karl Hammar --- Aspö Data Lilla Aspö 148 S-742 94 Östhammar Sweden +46 173 140 57 ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
calling all opera/musical engravers
Hello all! I would love to hear from anyone who has engraved a full opera or musical (with at least vocal score plus full score) in Lilypond. Specifically: 1. Is lilypond-book the only sane way to do it? 2. What functions/extensions/tricks did you use to bend Lily to your will? 3. What pitfalls are to be watched for (and hopefully avoided)? 4. What limitations cannot [currently] be overcome? Thanks, Kieren. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
