Re: question about transposing an interval of a 4th - Looks like I found the answer
2009/1/17 Chip c...@wiegand.org:
I'll take you word for it because I don't know the difference between all
the transposition types you mention above, haven't even heard of some of
'em.
Actually I've only mentioned two types. Suppose you want to transpose
{ c d e f g a b c } a fourth lower. You could think of { g a b c d e f
g } but this result has the following properties:
Firstly it does not sound as a c \major scale as if it had fis instead
of f. I call this a 'mode' (namely mixolidian) that is not a \major or
\minor scale.
Secondly, of course it is not a _constant_ fourth below the c \major
scale, because { b f } is an augmented fourth, not a just fourth as
all others are in this example and always are inside a \major scale,
except { b f }.
So this type of transposition is called diatonic, it has not constant
fourths apart from your initial scale and it looks as a g \major scale
adapted to the c \major note set.
\transpose would have produced { g a b c d e fis g }, this is a 'real'
transposition, it is always a just fourth interval from { c d e, etc.
} and it sounds just like a g \major scale, of course. Your 'manual'
adjustment has to bring the 'fis' back to 'f' so you do not go out of
the c \major note set, this modifies the type of fourth interval from
just to augmented.
Keep interval, let scale to be modified -- real transposition.
Let interval to result modified, keep scale -- diatonic transposition
--
Francisco Vila. Badajoz (Spain)
http://www.paconet.org
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Re: question about transposing an interval of a 4th - Looks like I found the answer
I figured it out - without any special trickery or anything else.
My piece is arrange as follows, a very truncated version of an 8 horn
piece -
\include
\version
\header {}
\paper {}
global = {\key g \major and more stuff }
\trumpetnotes1 = { a b c d e f g }
trptnotes1 = \relative c''' { \global \trumpetnotes1 }
\trumpetnotes2 = { a b c d e f g }
trptnotes2 = \relative c''' { \global \trumpetnotes2 }
\book { \score {
\new StaffGroup = trumpets \new Staff = trumpetnotes1 \trpt1
\new Staff =
trumpetnotes2 \trpt2 }
\book { \score { \new Staff = trpt1 \trpt1 }}
\book { \score { \new Staff = trpt2 \trpt2 }}
\layout { \context { \Score } }
For this example the above notes are entered in the transposing
instrument key. This is for Bb Trumpet, the concert key is F, the
Trumpet key is G. Both parts are entered the same, then this is placed
in the section for the 2nd Trumpet -
\transpose g d \relative c''' { \transpose d g \trptnotes2 }
Thus the above example now looks like this -
\include
\version
\header {}
\paper {}
global = {\key g \major and more stuff }
\trumpetnotes1 = { a b c d e f g }
trptnotes1 = \relative c''' { \global \trumpetnotes1 }
\trumpetnotes2 = { a b c d e f g }
*trptnotes2 = \transpose g d \relative c''' { \transpose d g \global
\trptnotes2 }*
\book { \score {
\new StaffGroup = trumpets \new Staff = trumpetnotes1 \trpt1
\new Staff =
trumpetnotes2 \trpt2 }
\book { \score { \new Staff = trpt1 \trpt1 }}
\book { \score { \new Staff = trpt2 \trpt2 }}
\layout { \context { \Score } }
What happens is the original key is transposed from G to D (changing the
key sig from one sharp to two sharps and dropping the written notes a
fourth) before the first {, then inside the {} it is transposed again,
this time from D to G (leaving the notes in the new position but
changing the key sig back to one sharp).
I don't understand how or why this works but it does. And whether the
interval is diatonic or harmonic, I don't know, but it gets the job
done. Then I can just go in and fix very few individual notes as needed.
Regards,
Chip
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Re: question about transposing an interval of a 4th - Looks like I found the answer
2009/1/16 Chip c...@wiegand.org:
I figured it out - without any special trickery or anything else.
Of course, but you do need manual adjustments.
\transpose g d \relative c''' { \transpose d g \trptnotes2 }
\transpose always does chromatic transposition, ie keeping a fixed
interval of the same type of fifth or fourth or whatever. For example,
usual fourths inside a scale are not fixed, they vary depending of the
steps you consider.
What happens is the original key is transposed from G to D (changing the key
sig from one sharp to two sharps and dropping the written notes a fourth)
before the first {, then inside the {} it is transposed again, this time
from D to G (leaving the notes in the new position but changing the key sig
back to one sharp).
Yes, if I remember correctly I already told you that \transpose does
transpose the key sig if it is inside of the block being transposed,
and does not transpose the key sig if it does not encounter any key
sig to transpose inside the block.
So you can obtain the same result by transposing a block without \key in it.
I don't understand how or why this works but it does. And whether the
interval is diatonic or harmonic, I don't know, but it gets the job done.
I'd call it chromatic, fixed or real as opposed to diatonic,
modal or adapted to a scale. You are obtaining the first kind but
you need the second kind.
Then I can just go in and fix very few individual notes as needed.
That's the problem, it is not automatic but rather it depends not only
on the notes being transposed, also on the interval of transposition.
Trust me, you are looking for a diatonic transposition tool.
--
Francisco Vila. Badajoz (Spain)
http://www.paconet.org
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Re: question about transposing an interval of a 4th - Looks like I found the answer
Francisco Vila wrote:
2009/1/16 Chip c...@wiegand.org:
I figured it out - without any special trickery or anything else.
Of course, but you do need manual adjustments.
I can live with that. Maybe someday a tool will be written and built
into Lily to do the transposition, until then, I'll make the few
adjustments.
\transpose g d \relative c''' { \transpose d g \trptnotes2 }
\transpose always does chromatic transposition, ie keeping a fixed
interval of the same type of fifth or fourth or whatever. For example,
usual fourths inside a scale are not fixed, they vary depending of the
steps you consider.
What happens is the original key is transposed from G to D (changing the key
sig from one sharp to two sharps and dropping the written notes a fourth)
before the first {, then inside the {} it is transposed again, this time
from D to G (leaving the notes in the new position but changing the key sig
back to one sharp).
Yes, if I remember correctly I already told you that \transpose does
transpose the key sig if it is inside of the block being transposed,
and does not transpose the key sig if it does not encounter any key
sig to transpose inside the block.
So you can obtain the same result by transposing a block without \key in it.
Yeah, you probably did mention it and I probably missed it in all the
banter going back and forth for so long.
I don't understand how or why this works but it does. And whether the
interval is diatonic or harmonic, I don't know, but it gets the job done.
I'd call it chromatic, fixed or real as opposed to diatonic,
modal or adapted to a scale. You are obtaining the first kind but
you need the second kind.
Then I can just go in and fix very few individual notes as needed.
That's the problem, it is not automatic but rather it depends not only
on the notes being transposed, also on the interval of transposition.
Trust me, you are looking for a diatonic transposition tool
I'll take you word for it because I don't know the difference between
all the transposition types you mention above, haven't even heard of
some of 'em.
--
Chip
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