Re: scoop before note

2009-06-08 Thread Tao Cumplido 
Actually it would be nice to have fixed glyphs for scoops, falls and doits, 
handled as articulation maybe.
This bendAfter thing will always be trial and error, even for falls and doits.

Lewis, if you have printed examples of the three cases you could make a 
high-resolution scan and make a feature request for those.

 Original-Nachricht 
 Datum: Sun, 07 Jun 2009 21:02:29 -0700
 Von: chip c...@wiegand.org
 An: Kieren MacMillan kieren_macmil...@sympatico.ca
 CC: Lewis Overton l...@chena.fastmail.us, lilypond-user@gnu.org
 Betreff: Re: scoop before note

 Kieren MacMillan wrote:
  Hi Lewy,
 
  I'm curious about what others are doing to print a scoop
 
  I'm not using them at all... but have you tried directly manipulating 
  a BendAfter grob?
 
  \version 2.12
  scoopMusic = \relative
  {
  \override BendAfter #'rotation = #'(-45 -4 3)
  \override Score.SpacingSpanner #'shortest-duration-space = #4.0 
  c-\bendAfter #8
  }
  \score { \scoopMusic }
 
  Hope this helps!
  Kieren.
 That works in a rather kludgy way. I've been playing with the numbers 
 trying to get it to look just right. Takes a lot of trial and error to 
 get it close, but not 'right'. Adding a note before the tweak requires 
 refiguring the numbers, lots of trial and error involved in getting it 
 in the correct position. That is an articulation that I would like to 
 see work correctly and added to lilypond, wouldn't it be just the 
 opposite of the \bendafter articulation? But my guess is it's not going 
 to be that simple.
 --
 Chip
 
 
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Re: scoop before note

2009-06-08 Thread Wilbert Berendsen 
Op maandag 08 juni 2009, schreef Lewis Overton:
 I'm curious about what others are doing to print a scoop --  a curved
 gliss into a note with no particular starting note

I sometimes use something like this for Bach music: a hidden appoggiatura that 
leaves the slur visible (and manipulate that slur a bit)

scoop = #(define-music-function (parser location note) (ly:music?)
#{
  \once \override Slur #'extra-offset = #'(-.8 . 1.5)
  \once \override Slur #'rotation = #'(-10 0 0)
  \hideNotes \appoggiatura $note \unHideNotes 
#})

\relative c'' {
  g4 \scoop f e f2
}

This scoop function needs a note that is used to place a hidden appoggiatura. 
See the attached png example.

best regards,
Wilbert Berendsen

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Re: scoop before note

2009-06-08 Thread Robin Bannister 

Lewis Overton wrote:
I'm curious about what others are doing to print a scoop 


I have an occasional need for this when transposing saxophone parts, 
and then I use brackettips as you do/did [1]. 

I first did such bends in a clumsy beginners way and had to put the 
brackettips in a dedicated auxiliary voice.
It was cumbersome to set up but obediently predictable, which was in 
contrast to my frustrating attempts trying to tame \bendAfter.
I never perservered with bendAfter; there was no corresponding bendBefore, 
and it is important to have the same style for all bends. 

But my lowlevel Lilypond has improved, and I recently had another go, 
which turned out a lot simpler, especially the scoop: 

 2.12 
#(define (scoop-stencil grob)  
 (ly:stencil-combine-at-edge (ly:note-head::print grob) 0 -1 
  (grob-interpret-markup grob (markup #:with-dimensions '(0 . 0) '(0 . 0)

#:translate '( -2 . -2) #:musicglyph brackettips.up )) 0 0 ))
scoop = \once \override NoteHead #'stencil = #scoop-stencil 




The key to this approach is the zero with-dimensions.   
It is of course a trick which lets notehead and stem stay together.  
And since it invites collisions, it may well be condemned by layout purists. 

But IMO it works well for the saxophone parts. 
It leaves the notecolumn spacing undisturbed; this is in keeping with my 
perception of these bends as articulations, i.e. lightweight qualifications.   
Collisions are fairly rare, mainly because the sax doesn't do chords, 
but also because these bends occur mostly on quarter and half notes;  
for beamed eighths I have a fixed override for widening the preceding stem.   
And the scoops are more or less below any accidentals.   



Cheers,
Robin

[1] http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2007-04/msg00123.html


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Re: scoop before note

2009-06-08 Thread chip 
In all my years of playing jazz I've never seen a scoop placed above a 
note. I was messing about with using a


\relative c {
\once \override Slur #'positions = #'(-7 . -7)
c'2 \hideNotes \grace c8( \unHideNotes f4) g8 a
}

but no matter what numbers I put in the positions parameters the slur 
does not move. Obviously -7 is way off, but doesn't matter, they have no 
effect. I wanted to see how such a thing would look, it anything like a 
scoop - the gracenote would be hidden but the slur would be left 
visible. The move the slur slightly left so the right end is just to the 
left of the notehead.

--
Chip

Robin Bannister wrote:

Lewis Overton wrote:
I'm curious about what others are doing to print a scoop 


I have an occasional need for this when transposing saxophone parts, 
and then I use brackettips as you do/did [1].
I first did such bends in a clumsy beginners way and had to put the 
brackettips in a dedicated auxiliary voice.It was cumbersome to 
set up but obediently predictable, which was in contrast to my 
frustrating attempts trying to tame \bendAfter.I never perservered 
with bendAfter; there was no corresponding bendBefore, and it is 
important to have the same style for all bends.
But my lowlevel Lilypond has improved, and I recently had another go, 
which turned out a lot simpler, especially the scoop:
 2.12 #(define (scoop-stencil grob)  
 (ly:stencil-combine-at-edge (ly:note-head::print grob) 0 -1   
(grob-interpret-markup grob (markup #:with-dimensions '(0 . 0) '(0 . 0)

#:translate '( -2 . -2) #:musicglyph brackettips.up )) 0 0 ))
scoop = \once \override NoteHead #'stencil = #scoop-stencil 




The key to this approach is the zero with-dimensions.   It is of 
course a trick which lets notehead and stem stay together.  And since 
it invites collisions, it may well be condemned by layout purists.
But IMO it works well for the saxophone parts. It leaves the 
notecolumn spacing undisturbed; this is in keeping with my perception 
of these bends as articulations, i.e. lightweight qualifications.   
Collisions are fairly rare, mainly because the sax doesn't do chords, 
but also because these bends occur mostly on quarter and half notes;  
for beamed eighths I have a fixed override for widening the preceding 
stem.   And the scoops are more or less below any accidentals.  


Cheers,
Robin

[1] http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2007-04/msg00123.html


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Re: scoop before note

2009-06-08 Thread Robin Bannister 
Chip wrote: 
but no matter what numbers I put in the positions parameters the slur 
does not move. 


The \once makes this override act only on the c'2 and the c'2 has no slur.  

The override acts on the slur if it comes after the c'2, 
but it moves the slur vertically; not what you wanted. 



How about:

\relative c { 
c'2 
\once \override Slur #'extra-offset = #'(-1 . 0) 
\hideNotes \grace c8( \unHideNotes f4) g8 a 
} 



Cheers,
Robin


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scoop before note

2009-06-07 Thread Lewis Overton 
I'm curious about what others are doing to print a scoop --  a curved
gliss into a note with no particular starting note. It's common in jazz and
occasionally in more modern band and orchestra music, especially show music.
It looks like a doit but comes before and leads into a note. I've seen
several attempts at this, but nothing I've tried seems to work. I'm a
trombone player, so I see these things often. Falls and doits are under
control, but scoops still elude me.

Lewy
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Re: scoop before note

2009-06-07 Thread Kieren MacMillan 

Hi Lewy,


I'm curious about what others are doing to print a scoop


I'm not using them at all... but have you tried directly manipulating  
a BendAfter grob?


\version 2.12
scoopMusic = \relative
{
\override BendAfter #'rotation = #'(-45 -4 3)
\override Score.SpacingSpanner #'shortest-duration-space = #4.0  
c-\bendAfter #8

}
\score { \scoopMusic }

Hope this helps!
Kieren.


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Re: scoop before note

2009-06-07 Thread chip 

Kieren MacMillan wrote:

Hi Lewy,


I'm curious about what others are doing to print a scoop


I'm not using them at all... but have you tried directly manipulating 
a BendAfter grob?


\version 2.12
scoopMusic = \relative
{
\override BendAfter #'rotation = #'(-45 -4 3)
\override Score.SpacingSpanner #'shortest-duration-space = #4.0 
c-\bendAfter #8

}
\score { \scoopMusic }

Hope this helps!
Kieren.
That works in a rather kludgy way. I've been playing with the numbers 
trying to get it to look just right. Takes a lot of trial and error to 
get it close, but not 'right'. Adding a note before the tweak requires 
refiguring the numbers, lots of trial and error involved in getting it 
in the correct position. That is an articulation that I would like to 
see work correctly and added to lilypond, wouldn't it be just the 
opposite of the \bendafter articulation? But my guess is it's not going 
to be that simple.

--
Chip



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