Re: separating music and guitar instructions
On Wed 29 Sep 2010, 13:58 Vicente Solsona wrote: > I definitely think it is, but we are mixing two things: > > 1) fingering indications are not displayed in *standard notation* if > entered with no angle braces, but they are displayed in *tablature*. > > this is a Lilypond *feature*. Some users seem to be fine with it > (myself included) while some other may have some objections: Xavier > Scheuer finds it annoying, and David Kastrup observed: > > "Would seem like a case for a context variable rather than hardwired" > > We can discuss whether this is a real issue or it is fine as it > is now. > For me, it's not so important to raise a real issue. I "can live" with > this feature as it is now (but as Patrick Schmidt pointed, then the > Notation Manual must should be adjusted, but let's forget this > for now, > I can make a proper issue request later). > > 2) what I'm actually reporting seems really a *bug* to me. Please let me > reformulate it with a more complete example: The latter added "as is" as 1283: http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=1283 Regarding the former -- let's discuss it later?-) Please *start a new thread* and post an issue request :-) Thank you! -- Dmytro O. Redchuk Bug Squad ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: separating music and guitar instructions
On Wed, 29 Sep 2010 09:11:45 +0200, Dmytro O. Redchuk
wrote:
Sorry for delay. I am still brave enough to add "this" to the tracker
but not
sure that this issue is clear enough, sorry.
Dmytro,
many thanks for taking the time to keep this alive :)
I am affraid, if this is _a question_ ("should or should not"), it's
still not
a valid issue report?
I definitely think it is, but we are mixing two things:
1) fingering indications are not displayed in *standard notation* if
entered with no angle braces, but they are displayed in *tablature*.
this is a Lilypond *feature*. Some users seem to be fine with it
(myself included) while some other may have some objections: Xavier
Scheuer finds it annoying, and David Kastrup observed:
"Would seem like a case for a context variable rather than hardwired"
We can discuss whether this is a real issue or it is fine as it is
now.
For me, it's not so important to raise a real issue. I "can live" with
this feature as it is now (but as Patrick Schmidt pointed, then the
Notation Manual must should be adjusted, but let's forget this for
now,
I can make a proper issue request later).
2) what I'm actually reporting seems really a *bug* to me. Please let me
reformulate it with a more complete example:
%-8<
Summary: some fingering indications and fingering related commands are not
displayed
when entered in a separate expression
Type: Defect
Priority: Medium
\version "2.12.3"
music = \relative c'' {4 \stemUp }
fingerings = {
s4-1% it's displayed
s4\2% it's not displayed
s4-\rightHandFinger #2 % it's not displayed
\set fingeringOrientations = #'(down) % doesn't work
s4-2
\override Fingering #'staff-padding = #'() % *does* work
s4-3
\override Fingering #'add-stem-support = ##f % doesn't work
s4-1
}
\score {
<<
\new Staff \context Voice = "A" \music
\context Voice = "A" \fingerings
>>
}
%-8<
This is the real issue report I'd want to make.
I'm not a native english, and sometimes I express myself awfully. My
apologies for this. Please let me know if I can make the report clearer.
Many thanks again.
Greetings,
Vicente
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Re: separating music and guitar instructions
Patrick Schmidt writes: > Am 20.09.2010 um 20:29 schrieb Vicente Solsona: > >>> On Mon, 20 Sep 2010 18:27:37 +0200, "Vicente Solsona" >>> wrote: To sumarise: String numbers, harmonics and right hand fingerings *must* be defined inside a chord construct even if there is only a single note. you can attach finger numbers to single notes: a-1 b-2 c-1-2-3-4 % etc but you need to put the notes inside chords <> to attach string numbers, harmonics and right hand fingers, even if it's a single note: >>> >>> That is untrue. >> [...] >> >> sorry if I din't make myself clear, I'm not talking about guitar music >> layout, but just about lilypond syntax: >> >> this doesn't work >> >> c4\3 > It does! This avoids a string number indication in standard notation > and leads to a correct fret number in tablature. See Default > tablatures in the Notation Reference. Would seem like a case for a context variable rather than hardwired. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: separating music and guitar instructions
this doesn't work
c4\3
It does! This avoids a string number indication in standard notation and
leads to a correct fret number in tablature. See Default tablatures in
the Notation Reference.
and this does:
4
This basically has the same effect but a string number indication is
added in standard notation.
a-ha, ok!
I don't use tablatures, so I didn't realize that, sorry for my confusion.
Then it makes sense to me.
But the original "issue" remains though:
should the following example (and the larger one in my first post) to be
expected to work? if yes (and I'm not doing something wrong), then there's
a bug.
%
music = { 4 }
fingers = {s4\2 s4-\rightHandFinger #2}
\score {
<< \new Staff \context Voice = "A" \music
\context Voice = "A" \fingers
>>
}
%
the quote:
"String numbers [, harmonics and right hand fingerings] *must* be
defined inside a chord construct even if there is only a single note."
is from the Notation Reference manual.
This should be adjusted!
It seems so :)
thanks and greetings,
Vicente
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Re: separating music and guitar instructions
Am 20.09.2010 um 20:29 schrieb Vicente Solsona: On Mon, 20 Sep 2010 18:27:37 +0200, "Vicente Solsona" wrote: To sumarise: String numbers, harmonics and right hand fingerings *must* be defined inside a chord construct even if there is only a single note. you can attach finger numbers to single notes: a-1 b-2 c-1-2-3-4 % etc but you need to put the notes inside chords <> to attach string numbers, harmonics and right hand fingers, even if it's a single note: That is untrue. [...] sorry if I din't make myself clear, I'm not talking about guitar music layout, but just about lilypond syntax: this doesn't work c4\3 It does! This avoids a string number indication in standard notation and leads to a correct fret number in tablature. See Default tablatures in the Notation Reference. and this does: 4 This basically has the same effect but a string number indication is added in standard notation. the quote: "String numbers [, harmonics and right hand fingerings] *must* be defined inside a chord construct even if there is only a single note." is from the Notation Reference manual. This should be adjusted! greetings, Vicente ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: separating music and guitar instructions
On Mon, 20 Sep 2010 18:27:37 +0200, "Vicente Solsona" wrote: To sumarise: String numbers, harmonics and right hand fingerings *must* be defined inside a chord construct even if there is only a single note. you can attach finger numbers to single notes: a-1 b-2 c-1-2-3-4 % etc but you need to put the notes inside chords <> to attach string numbers, harmonics and right hand fingers, even if it's a single note: That is untrue. [...] sorry if I din't make myself clear, I'm not talking about guitar music layout, but just about lilypond syntax: this doesn't work c4\3 and this does: 4 the quote: "String numbers [, harmonics and right hand fingerings] *must* be defined inside a chord construct even if there is only a single note." is from the Notation Reference manual. greetings, Vicente ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: separating music and guitar instructions
On Mon, 20 Sep 2010 18:27:37 +0200, "Vicente Solsona" wrote: > To sumarise: > > String numbers, harmonics and right hand fingerings *must* be defined > inside a chord construct even if there is only a single note. > > you can attach finger numbers to single notes: > > a-1 b-2 c-1-2-3-4 % etc > > but you need to put the notes inside chords <> to attach string numbers, > harmonics and right hand fingers, even if it's a single note: That is untrue. You must attach fingerings to chorded notes if you want to display them next to the note head. Otherwise the fingerings are just another piece of vertical material, like a fret diagram or chord name. Most of the time, this is best because fingering indications inside the staff clutters the notes. Good musicians don't need it, and may even disagree with the fingering, in which case it's worse than useless. If you have fingerings for two-voice music, the top voice fingers can go above, and the bottom voice below, which is a perfectly good notation. If there are three or more voices, that's when you might want to have the middle voice fingering next to the head. This is the place where you run into the Lilypond annyoance that the note must be in a chord. In terms of the music, it already is, but the chord is arising from the meeting of multiple voices, not from the . Strictly speaking, it's not necessary for the fingering to be next to the note head. Lilypond will happily stack multiple fingerings. So you can achieve something like 1 2 | | (*) | (*) (*) | | 3 This is an acceptable notation; it does not have to be: | | (*) 1 | (*) 2 (*) 3 | | If you think that the musicians who will be playing the music require that much detailed guidance (e.g. you're writing a "how-to-play-guitar" type book for beginners) why not give them fret diagrams. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: separating music and guitar instructions
On Wed 15 Sep 2010, 22:40 Xavier Scheuer wrote: On 15 September 2010 19:53, Vicente Solsona wrote: > It probably has something to do with the fact that string numbers and > right hand fingers must be put inside a chord, but skips cannot, but > I'm stuck here. This limitation that string numbers, right hand fingers (but fingeringOrientations too!) require to be put inside a chord construct _is_ annoying. Hi, Xavier! i feel like i can not understand what's wrong (i never typed guitar scores), To sumarise: String numbers, harmonics and right hand fingerings *must* be defined inside a chord construct even if there is only a single note. you can attach finger numbers to single notes: a-1 b-2 c-1-2-3-4 % etc but you need to put the notes inside chords <> to attach string numbers, harmonics and right hand fingers, even if it's a single note: \2> % etc There's surely a good internal reason for this, but from the user's perspective it's a bit odd. While I can perfectly live with that, it's (probably) also causing the issue which originated this post, so we could have a bug here (unless I'm doing something wrong). I would not like this "annoying and non-friendly limitation" was lost. every single fretted instrumentist in the world will thank you for that sooner or later :) Thank you! thank *you* greetings, Vicente p.s. I am not suscribed to #devel. please forward if appropiate. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: separating music and guitar instructions
On Wed 15 Sep 2010, 22:40 Xavier Scheuer wrote: > On 15 September 2010 19:53, Vicente Solsona wrote: > > It probably has something to do with the fact that string numbers and > > right hand fingers must be put inside a chord, but skips cannot, but > > I'm stuck here. > > This limitation that string numbers, right hand fingers > (but fingeringOrientations too!) require to be put inside a chord > construct _is_ annoying. Hi, Xavier! i feel like i can not understand what's wrong (i never typed guitar scores), so i would ask you -- if this issue is still important -- to make "a bit better worded issue report", just for me, i will try again .) Then i'll be able to search tracker or the like; then i'll be able (i hope!) to decide what to do with this. If not --- i'll ask again .) I would not like this "annoying and non-friendly limitation" was lost. Thank you! > I'm sure some devs already tried to struggle with this, I think there > should be at least one open issue about this on the tracker > (although I couldn't find it, maybe I used bad keywords)... > > But this limitation is really annoying and *absolutely not > user-friendly* (not understandable from a user point of view). > > Sorry for this nonconstructive post. -- Dmytro O. Redchuk Bug Squad ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: separating music and guitar instructions
On 15 September 2010 19:53, Vicente Solsona wrote: > > dear list, > > [...] > > It probably has something to do with the fact that string numbers and > right hand fingers must be put inside a chord, but skips cannot, but > I'm stuck here. This limitation that string numbers, right hand fingers (but fingeringOrientations too!) require to be put inside a chord construct _is_ annoying. I'm sure some devs already tried to struggle with this, I think there should be at least one open issue about this on the tracker (although I couldn't find it, maybe I used bad keywords)... But this limitation is really annoying and *absolutely not user-friendly* (not understandable from a user point of view). Sorry for this nonconstructive post. Cheers, Xavier -- Xavier Scheuer ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
separating music and guitar instructions
dear list,
I'm trying to extend the example given in NR 5.1.2 "Creating contexts" to
separate
music and guitar annotations (a very neat feature btw), by funneling the
music
itself and another expression with guitar instructions, but I'm facing some
problems: fingerings do partly work, but string numbers, right hand
strokes and
some fingering commands do not (see examples below and attached images).
It probably has something to do with the fact that string numbers and
right hand
fingers must be put inside a chord, but skips cannot, but I'm stuck here.
Is this a limitation or am I doing something wrong here? perhaps this will
work in
2.13?
Many thanks in advance,
Vicente
%%%
\version "2.12.3"
music = \relative c'' {
4
\stemUp
}
fingerings = {
s4-1% prints ok, cool
s4\2% doesn't print, what if would be legal?
s4-\rightHandFinger #2 % doesn't print
\set fingeringOrientations = #'(down) % doesn't work
s4-2
\once \override Fingering #'staff-padding = #'() % *does* work, cool
s4-3
\once \override Fingering #'add-stem-support = ##f % doesn't work
s4-1
}
\score {
<<
\new Staff \context Voice = "A" \music
\context Voice = "A" \fingerings
>>
}
EXAMPLE END %%
the following code with the very same previous instructions attached to
the music itself works as expected:
%%%
\version "2.12.3"
music = \relative c'' {
4
\once \set Staff.fingeringOrientations = #'(down)
\once \override Fingering #'staff-padding = #'()
\stemUp
\once \override Fingering #'add-stem-support = ##f
}
\score {
\new Staff \context Voice = "A" \music
}
EXAMPLE END %%<><>___
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