Re: still no ultimate way to create three-staff piano layout
"Keith OHara" writes: > On Mon, 16 Dec 2013 01:07:35 -0800, David Kastrup wrote: > >> Keith OHara writes: >> >>> The StaffGrouper, that makes different spacing at the end of a group, is >>> created by the Vertical_align_engraver (despite what the manual says) so >>> if you remove the Vertical_align_engraver form the PianoStaff, only the >>> enclosing StaffGroup will have the appearance of a group. >> >> Does that mean that the patch pushed in >> http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=3641#c7> (why >> has the issue been reopened instead of creating a new one for the >> documentation) is incomplete? The effect of the patch should be that >> nested "Vertical_align_engraver"s behave as if the inner engravers have >> been removed altogether. >> > > Vertical_align_engraver makes the start braces around, and adjusts > spacing between, the staves it contains. We do sometimes want a > GrandStaff (Flute 1 and 2) inside a StaffGroup (woodwinds) and in > those cases want both Vertical_align_engravers to be active and > drawing their braces. > > Karol had a special case, here, where he did *not* want the inner > Vertical_align_engraver doing its job. > > David, you might have confused the jobs of Vertical_align_engraver > (draws start braces, etc.) and Axis_group_engraver (arranges notes, > etc. on to lines of music). I'll comment on your patch so you can > check that it does what you meant to at the time. Ah yes. Can't get them all sorted out always. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: still no ultimate way to create three-staff piano layout
On Mon, 16 Dec 2013 01:07:35 -0800, David Kastrup wrote: Keith OHara writes: The StaffGrouper, that makes different spacing at the end of a group, is created by the Vertical_align_engraver (despite what the manual says) so if you remove the Vertical_align_engraver form the PianoStaff, only the enclosing StaffGroup will have the appearance of a group. Does that mean that the patch pushed in http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=3641#c7> (why has the issue been reopened instead of creating a new one for the documentation) is incomplete? The effect of the patch should be that nested "Vertical_align_engraver"s behave as if the inner engravers have been removed altogether. Vertical_align_engraver makes the start braces around, and adjusts spacing between, the staves it contains. We do sometimes want a GrandStaff (Flute 1 and 2) inside a StaffGroup (woodwinds) and in those cases want both Vertical_align_engravers to be active and drawing their braces. Karol had a special case, here, where he did *not* want the inner Vertical_align_engraver doing its job. David, you might have confused the jobs of Vertical_align_engraver (draws start braces, etc.) and Axis_group_engraver (arranges notes, etc. on to lines of music). I'll comment on your patch so you can check that it does what you meant to at the time. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: still no ultimate way to create three-staff piano layout
Keith OHara writes: > Eluze gmail.com> writes: > >> karol wrote >> > This doesn't solve the problem. Look at the example. In the first system >> > spacing is proper, but in the second, distance between 'b' and 'd' is 9 >> > (should be 10.5). >> >> I think this is a paradoxical situation: >> >> if a staff (group) is removed then the vertical spacing of the staff group >> above is applied >> > > If I understand, the PianoStaff inside StaffGroup should be treated as a > group for purposes of removing empty staves together, but not treated as a > group for purposes of spacing. > > The StaffGrouper, that makes different spacing at the end of a group, is > created by the Vertical_align_engraver (despite what the manual says) so > if you remove the Vertical_align_engraver form the PianoStaff, only the > enclosing StaffGroup will have the appearance of a group. Does that mean that the patch pushed in http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=3641#c7> (why has the issue been reopened instead of creating a new one for the documentation) is incomplete? The effect of the patch should be that nested "Vertical_align_engraver"s behave as if the inner engravers have been removed altogether. Doesn't it do that job completely, and if not, what is it that causes the difference? -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: still no ultimate way to create three-staff piano layout
Eluze gmail.com> writes:
> karol wrote
> > This doesn't solve the problem. Look at the example. In the first system
> > spacing is proper, but in the second, distance between 'b' and 'd' is 9
> > (should be 10.5).
>
> I think this is a paradoxical situation:
>
> if a staff (group) is removed then the vertical spacing of the staff group
> above is applied
>
If I understand, the PianoStaff inside StaffGroup should be treated as a
group for purposes of removing empty staves together, but not treated as a
group for purposes of spacing.
The StaffGrouper, that makes different spacing at the end of a group, is
created by the Vertical_align_engraver (despite what the manual says) so
if you remove the Vertical_align_engraver form the PianoStaff, only the
enclosing StaffGroup will have the appearance of a group.
\new StaffGroup <<
\new PianoStaff \with {
\remove "Span_bar_engraver"
\remove "System_start_delimiter_engraver"
\remove "Vertical_align_engraver"
} <<
\new Staff
\new Staff >>
\new Staff >>
\new StaffGroup <<
\new Staff
\new Staff
\new Staff >> >> }
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Re: still no ultimate way to create three-staff piano layout
Hi all, > I think this is a paradoxical situation: > if a staff (group) is removed then the vertical spacing of the staff group > above is applied This isn’t “paradoxical”; it’s a lack in the spacing algorithm/.parameters, one which has irritated me for a long time. There should be a way to set pre-system/pre-staff spacing, not just post-. Regards, Kieren. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: still no ultimate way to create three-staff piano layout
karol wrote > This doesn't solve the problem. Look at the example. In the first system > spacing is proper, but in the second, distance between 'b' and 'd' is 9 > (should be 10.5). I think this is a paradoxical situation: if a staff (group) is removed then the vertical spacing of the staff group above is applied I'm sorry I can't even see a workaround - I'll report this issue to the bug list. Eluze -- View this message in context: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/still-no-ultimate-way-to-create-three-staff-piano-layout-tp153648p155440.html Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: still no ultimate way to create three-staff piano layout
This doesn't solve the problem. Look at the example. In the first system
spacing is proper, but in the second, distance between 'b' and 'd' is 9 (should
be 10.5).
=
\version "2.17.96"
musicMusic = {
c'1 \break c'1
}
emptyMusic = {
R1 \break c'1
}
musicEmpty = {
c'1 \break R1
}
emptyEmpty = {
R1 \break R1
}
\score {
<<
\new StaffGroup \with { systemStartDelimiter = #'SystemStartBrace
\override StaffGrouper.staffgroup-staff-spacing.basic-distance = #10.5
} <<
\new PianoStaff \with {
\remove "Span_bar_engraver"
\remove "System_start_delimiter_engraver"
\override StaffGrouper.staffgroup-staff-spacing.basic-distance = #9
} <<
\new Staff \with {
instrumentName = #"a"
} \musicMusic
\new Staff \with {
instrumentName = #"b"
} \musicMusic
>>
\new Staff \with {
instrumentName = #"c"
\RemoveEmptyStaves
\override VerticalAxisGroup.remove-first = ##t
} \musicEmpty
>>
\new StaffGroup <<
\new Staff \with {
instrumentName = #"d"
} \musicMusic
\new Staff \with {
instrumentName = #"e"
} \musicMusic
\new Staff \with {
instrumentName = #"f"
} \musicMusic
>>
>>
}
=
An ideal solution would be to have Keep_alive_together_engraver modified so
that it keeps_alive_together only selected staves in the group (not all). Then
we could do:
\score {
<<
\new PianoStaff \with {
\remove "Keep_alive_together_engraver"
\consist "Keep_alive_selected_together_engraver"
} <<
\new Staff \with { \RemoveEmptyStaves \KeepAlive } \upper
\new Staff \with { \RemoveEmptyStaves \KeepAlive } \lower
\new Staff \with { \RemoveEmptyStaves \override
VerticalAxisGroup.remove-first = ##t } \extra
>>
>>
}
Or alternatively to modify Keep_alive_together_engraver so that it doesn't keep
alive selected staves:
\score {
<<
\new PianoStaff \with {
\remove "Keep_alive_together_engraver"
\consist "Do_not_keep_alive_selected_together_engraver"
} <<
\new Staff \with { \RemoveEmptyStaves } \upper
\new Staff \with { \RemoveEmptyStaves } \lower
\new Staff \with { \RemoveEmptyStaves \override
VerticalAxisGroup.remove-first = ##t \DoNotKeepAlive } \extra
>>
>>
}
Without this we cannot build stable \PianoThreeStaff context.
Karol
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Re: still no ultimate way to create three-staff piano layout
karol wrote
> Hi Eluze,
>
> it works, but only if all three piano-staves are visible. When staff 'c'
> is empty (hidden), distance between 'b' and 'd' is smaller than it should
> be. No idea how to solve this...
what if you augment the value in the PianoStaff:
<<
\new PianoStaff \with {
\remove "Span_bar_engraver"
\remove "System_start_delimiter_engraver"
\override StaffGrouper.staffgroup-staff-spacing.basic-distance = #15
} <<
did I misunderstand?
Eluze
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Re: still no ultimate way to create three-staff piano layout
Hi Eluze,
it works, but only if all three piano-staves are visible. When staff 'c' is
empty (hidden), distance between 'b' and 'd' is smaller than it should be. No
idea how to solve this...
=
\version "2.17.96"
music = {
c'1
}
musicEmpty = {
R1
}
\score {
<<
\new StaffGroup \with { systemStartDelimiter = #'SystemStartBrace
\override StaffGrouper.staffgroup-staff-spacing.basic-distance = #10.5
} <<
\new PianoStaff \with {
\remove "Span_bar_engraver"
\remove "System_start_delimiter_engraver"
\override StaffGrouper.staffgroup-staff-spacing.basic-distance = #9
} <<
\new Staff \with {
instrumentName = #"a"
} \music
\new Staff \with {
instrumentName = #"b"
} \music
>>
\new Staff \with {
instrumentName = #"c"
\RemoveEmptyStaves
\override VerticalAxisGroup.remove-first = ##t
} \musicEmpty
>>
\new StaffGroup <<
\new Staff \with {
instrumentName = #"d"
} \music
\new Staff \with {
instrumentName = #"e"
} \music
\new Staff \with {
instrumentName = #"f"
} \music
>>
>>
}
=
> karol wrote
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'm still working on ultimate three-staff piano layout. When I write
> > piano-solo music it works fine. The problem occures when I add another
> > StaffGroup:
>
> you probably have to override the values for the staff grouper:
>
> \score {
> <<
> \new StaffGroup \with {
> \override StaffGrouper.staffgroup-staff-spacing.basic-distance = #44
> systemStartDelimiter = #'SystemStartSquare
> }
> <<
> \new PianoStaff \with{
> \override StaffGrouper.staffgroup-staff-spacing.basic-distance = 55
> }
> <<
> \new Staff \music
> \new Staff \music
> \new Staff \music
> >>
> \new Staff \music
> >>
> \new StaffGroup <<
> \new Staff \music
> \new Staff \music
> \new Staff \music
> >>
> >>
> }
>
> does this work for you?
>
> Eluze
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
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> Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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Re: still no ultimate way to create three-staff piano layout
karol wrote
> Hi,
>
> I'm still working on ultimate three-staff piano layout. When I write
> piano-solo music it works fine. The problem occures when I add another
> StaffGroup:
you probably have to override the values for the staff grouper:
\score {
<<
\new StaffGroup \with {
\override StaffGrouper.staffgroup-staff-spacing.basic-distance = #44
systemStartDelimiter = #'SystemStartSquare
}
<<
\new PianoStaff \with{
\override StaffGrouper.staffgroup-staff-spacing.basic-distance = 55
}
<<
\new Staff \music
\new Staff \music
\new Staff \music
>>
\new Staff \music
>>
\new StaffGroup <<
\new Staff \music
\new Staff \music
\new Staff \music
>>
>>
}
does this work for you?
Eluze
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Re: still no ultimate way to create three-staff piano layout
Hi,
I'm still working on ultimate three-staff piano layout. When I write piano-solo
music it works fine. The problem occures when I add another StaffGroup:
=
\version "2.17.96"
music = {
c'1
}
\score {
<<
\new StaffGroup \with { systemStartDelimiter = #'SystemStartBrace } <<
\new PianoStaff \with {
\remove "Span_bar_engraver"
\remove "System_start_delimiter_engraver"
} <<
\new Staff \with {
instrumentName = #"a"
} \music
\new Staff \with {
instrumentName = #"b"
} \music
>>
\new Staff \with {
instrumentName = #"c"
\RemoveEmptyStaves
\override VerticalAxisGroup.remove-first = ##t
} \music
>>
\new StaffGroup <<
\new Staff \with {
instrumentName = #"d"
} \music
\new Staff \with {
instrumentName = #"e"
} \music
\new Staff \with {
instrumentName = #"f"
} \music
>>
>>
}
=
As you can see, the distance between 'b' and 'c' is bigger than between 'a' and
'b'. To prevent this, in piano-solo music I used to add:
\override VerticalAxisGroup #'staff-staff-spacing =
#'((basic-distance . 9)
(minimum-distance . 7)
(padding . 1)
(stretchability . 5))
to the main StaffGroup.
But when I add it to layout with more StaffGroups (example above), distance
between 'c' and 'd' gets smaller too, and this is not what I want.
I got stuck. Don't know how to achieve this:
dist.ab = dist.bc
dist.bc < dist.cd
Any ideas?
-Best
Karol
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Re: still no ultimate way to create three-staff piano layout
Hi, > yes - but please if you go public (eg. LSR) - and I hope you will - don't > call the variables "left" or "right"; leftHand and rightHand seems less > confusable within LilyPond Might I suggest pianoUpper/pianoLower/pianoThird, or pianoI/pianoII/pianoIII, or similar? It's not a fact that the left hand always plays the lower staff, and the right the upper, etc. Cheers, Kieren. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: still no ultimate way to create three-staff piano layout
karol wrote > So this is how three-staff piano layout should look like: > > [...] yes - but please if you go public (eg. LSR) - and I hope you will - don't call the variables "left" or "right"; leftHand and rightHand seems less confusable within LilyPond thanks Eluze -- View this message in context: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/still-no-ultimate-way-to-create-three-staff-piano-layout-tp153648p153680.html Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: still no ultimate way to create three-staff piano layout
Thanks Eluze!
So this is how three-staff piano layout should look like:
\score {
\new StaffGroup \with {
systemStartDelimiter = #'SystemStartBrace
\override VerticalAxisGroup #'staff-staff-spacing =
#'((basic-distance . 9)
(minimum-distance . 7)
(padding . 1)
(stretchability . 5))
} <<
\new PianoStaff \with {
\remove "System_start_delimiter_engraver"
\remove "Span_bar_engraver"
} <<
\new Staff = "right" \right
\new Staff = "left" \left
>>
>>
\new Staff = "leftExtra" \with {
\RemoveEmptyStaves
\override VerticalAxisGroup.remove-first = ##t
} \leftExtra
>>
}
-Karol
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Re: still no ultimate way to create three-staff piano layout
Hi all,
> I think you can group or nest these contexts, eg.
>
> \new StaffGroup \with { } <<
>\new PianoStaff <<
> \new Staff = "A" \A
> \new Staff = "B" \B
>>>
>\new Staff = "C" \C \with { }
>>>
>
> and then (with \removeEmpty... specified) will always keep together but
> staff C can be removed if it doesn't play.
Maybe wrap it up as a custom context (e.g., \PianoThreeStaff), so that
template-level control — and sharing with the community at large — is easy?
Good luck!
Kieren.
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Re: still no ultimate way to create three-staff piano layout
karol wrote
> The question is: what if three-staff piano is part of orchestra? In
> orchestral score, when piano is "tacet", the whole PianoStaff should be
> removed from the page.
>
> Adding \RemoveEmptyStaves to every Staff is a bad idea, because when the
> "right" staff has some nmusic and the "left" staff is empty - only the
> "right" will be shown (And I want the "left" to be shown also!)
>
> \score {
> \new PianoStaff \with {
> \remove "Keep_alive_together_engraver"
> } <<
> \new Staff = "right" \with { \RemoveEmptyStaves } \right
> \new Staff = "left" \with { \RemoveEmptyStaves } \left
> \new Staff = "leftExtra" \with { \RemoveEmptyStaves \override
> VerticalAxisGroup.remove-first = ##t } \leftExtra
> >>
> }
>
> So, is there any way to create such layout? Maybe it's possible to:
> 1) remove single Staff from PianoStaff without removing
> "Keep_alive_together_engraver"?
> 2) make "Keep_alive_together_engraver" to keep alive only two highest
> Staves in PianoStaff?
I think you can group or nest these contexts, eg.
\new StaffGroup \with { } <<
\new PianoStaff <<
\new Staff = "A" \A
\new Staff = "B" \B
>>
\new Staff = "C" \C \with { }
>>
and then (with \removeEmpty... specified) will always keep together but
staff C can be removed if it doesn't play.
maybe you have to construct an example to see how this works
hth
Eluze
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still no ultimate way to create three-staff piano layout
It seems that there is no ultimate way to create three-staff piano layout.
When typing solo piano piece, there is no problem. The following does the job:
\score {
\new PianoStaff \with {
\remove "Keep_alive_together_engraver"
} <<
\new Staff = "right" \right
\new Staff = "left" \left
\new Staff = "leftExtra" \with { \RemoveEmptyStaves \override
VerticalAxisGroup.remove-first = ##t } \leftExtra
>>
}
The question is: what if three-staff piano is part of orchestra? In orchestral
score, when piano is "tacet", the whole PianoStaff should be removed from the
page.
Adding \RemoveEmptyStaves to every Staff is a bad idea, because when the
"right" staff has some nmusic and the "left" staff is empty - only the "right"
will be shown (And I want the "left" to be shown also!)
\score {
\new PianoStaff \with {
\remove "Keep_alive_together_engraver"
} <<
\new Staff = "right" \with { \RemoveEmptyStaves } \right
\new Staff = "left" \with { \RemoveEmptyStaves } \left
\new Staff = "leftExtra" \with { \RemoveEmptyStaves \override
VerticalAxisGroup.remove-first = ##t } \leftExtra
>>
}
So, is there any way to create such layout? Maybe it's possible to:
1) remove single Staff from PianoStaff without removing
"Keep_alive_together_engraver"?
2) make "Keep_alive_together_engraver" to keep alive only two highest Staves in
PianoStaff?
-Karol
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