Re: ANN: New Wiki Theme

[Andy Doan]

On 11/18/2011 08:11 AM, Christian Robottom Reis wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 10:45:51AM +, Dave Martin wrote:
>> Is it possible to get rid of Moin's "external link" icon on each link?  It
>> breaks up the text a lot, and I'm not convinced how useful it is.
> 
> Totally +1 on this, I hate the icon.

This is easy to fix. I hate it as well.

> 
>> In particular, if the items form some sort of logical structure,
>> ordering by popularity can obscure it.
> 
> Well, more to the point, popularity in part is a function of where the
> link is placed -- if you make the link prominent it tends to be more
> popular.

good point.

___
linaro-dev mailing list
linaro-dev@lists.linaro.org
http://lists.linaro.org/mailman/listinfo/linaro-dev

Re: ANN: New Wiki Theme

[Christian Robottom Reis]

On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 10:45:51AM +, Dave Martin wrote:
> Is it possible to get rid of Moin's "external link" icon on each link?  It
> breaks up the text a lot, and I'm not convinced how useful it is.

Totally +1 on this, I hate the icon.

> In particular, if the items form some sort of logical structure,
> ordering by popularity can obscure it.

Well, more to the point, popularity in part is a function of where the
link is placed -- if you make the link prominent it tends to be more
popular.
-- 
Christian Robottom Reis, Engineering VP
Brazil (GMT-3) | [+55] 16 9112 6430 | [+1] 612 216 4935
Linaro.org: Open Source Software for ARM SoCs

___
linaro-dev mailing list
linaro-dev@lists.linaro.org
http://lists.linaro.org/mailman/listinfo/linaro-dev

Re: ANN: New Wiki Theme

[Dave Martin]

On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 10:22:17AM -0600, Andy Doan wrote:
> On 11/16/2011 06:15 AM, Dave Martin wrote:
> > I think for the table of links we do need an explanation of what each
> > item is, though this should literally just be a few words.
> 
> Thanks for the feedback!
> 
> I've created a bug with all your comments[1]. I'd also like to point out
> the road-map I'm trying to put together[2]. I don't really disagree with
> anything you've said. However, I have to balance it with other feedback
> and direction I've gotten so we don't end up with this[3].
> 
> > 
> > There are also some things there which would be fairly incomprehensible
> > to a newcomer.  What is "Cycles", for example?  People also won't be
> > able to guess what "Connect" refers to without laboriously reading the
> > other text.
> > 
> > I would vote for removing all the links from the introductory paragraph
> > -- the precence of links disrupts the readability of the text
> > unnecessarily IMHO, and putting all the links into the table.
> 
> This is an interesting idea. I'm +1'ing it.

Another minor thing:

Is it possible to get rid of Moin's "external link" icon on each link?  It
breaks up the text a lot, and I'm not convinced how useful it is.

> > 
> > Could we also experiment with ordering the links so that the stuff for
> > newcomers appears first, and the resources for developers come afterwards,
> > perhaps in a separate table?  We need to give newcomers a bit of extra
> > help, because they're the people who will need it.
> 
> This is something I'm thinking more on and plan to improve. However, 4
> of our most popular pages (Android, DevPlatform, Builds, Source) are in
> the top corner of the table.

Popularity is a valuable metric, but we need to be a bit careful --
each of the most popular links should probably be on the front page
somewhere, but strictly ordering by popularity can have downsides.
In particular, if the items form some sort of logical structure,
ordering by popularity can obscure it.

For example, pages containing release information, instructions and
reference material may get a lot of hits, but these links are not
the first things that a new visitor should be looking at.

Just my opinion, though

Cheers
---Dave

___
linaro-dev mailing list
linaro-dev@lists.linaro.org
http://lists.linaro.org/mailman/listinfo/linaro-dev

Re: ANN: New Wiki Theme

[Andy Doan]

On 11/16/2011 01:19 PM, Christian Robottom Reis wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 05:55:54PM +, David Rusling wrote:
>> > Hmm, I'm not sure what category TSC and OCTO comes under, but NOT
>> > Administrative! 
> Steering? 

Good idea, but:

> Though I think the real fix is to reorganize the website to
> make it clear how Linaro actually works, and then the frontpage of the
> wiki becomes less important.

+1, this idea fixes the problem not just address a symptom.

___
linaro-dev mailing list
linaro-dev@lists.linaro.org
http://lists.linaro.org/mailman/listinfo/linaro-dev

Re: ANN: New Wiki Theme

[Christian Robottom Reis]

On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 05:55:54PM +, David Rusling wrote:
> Hmm, I'm not sure what category TSC and OCTO comes under, but NOT
> Administrative! 

Steering? Though I think the real fix is to reorganize the website to
make it clear how Linaro actually works, and then the frontpage of the
wiki becomes less important.
-- 
Christian Robottom Reis, Engineering VP
Brazil (GMT-3) | [+55] 16 9112 6430 | [+1] 612 216 4935
Linaro.org: Open Source Software for ARM SoCs

___
linaro-dev mailing list
linaro-dev@lists.linaro.org
http://lists.linaro.org/mailman/listinfo/linaro-dev

Re: ANN: New Wiki Theme

[David Rusling]

Hmm, I'm not sure what category TSC and OCTO comes under, but NOT 
Administrative! 

Dave

On 16 Nov 2011, at 17:49, Joey STANFORD wrote:

>> I've been thinking about compromises because the three pages don't
>> really get linked to from anywhere else and thus become orphaned. I'm
>> thinking about adding a new link to the table called "Administrative".
>> This would link to a new page that would then enumerate these links as
>> well as links to stuff like "Process".
>> 
>> Thoughts?
> 
> I like it.  We need to run it through Steve T's framework filter to
> make sure it doesn't break anything.  I don't want us to expand out
> the front page again to be a website. More content in this case
> hampers discoverability .
> 
> ___
> linaro-dev mailing list
> linaro-dev@lists.linaro.org
> http://lists.linaro.org/mailman/listinfo/linaro-dev


___
linaro-dev mailing list
linaro-dev@lists.linaro.org
http://lists.linaro.org/mailman/listinfo/linaro-dev

Re: ANN: New Wiki Theme

[Joey STANFORD]

> I've been thinking about compromises because the three pages don't
> really get linked to from anywhere else and thus become orphaned. I'm
> thinking about adding a new link to the table called "Administrative".
> This would link to a new page that would then enumerate these links as
> well as links to stuff like "Process".
>
> Thoughts?

I like it.  We need to run it through Steve T's framework filter to
make sure it doesn't break anything.  I don't want us to expand out
the front page again to be a website. More content in this case
hampers discoverability .

___
linaro-dev mailing list
linaro-dev@lists.linaro.org
http://lists.linaro.org/mailman/listinfo/linaro-dev

Re: ANN: New Wiki Theme

[Andy Doan]

On 11/16/2011 11:00 AM, Joey STANFORD wrote:
> Howdy All,
> 
>>> Somehow OCTO is missed from the main page. is it possible to have a link
>>> to OfficeofCTO? I can add it, is there a list of icons I could select from?
>>
>> I'm looking into this today. We are also missing a link to the TSC.
>> These pages don't receive a lot of traffic so I want to make sure we add
>> things like this in a way that don't detract from our most important items.
> 
> In the same vein the Project Managers are not there.   We took a
> stance at Connect that only things that a developer wants should be
> presented on the front page of the developer wiki (which is what this
> is). If you don't do this, the page just grows into a website (and we
> have one of those already).  Therefore the TSC, PMs, and OCTO were not
> added.  We want the wiki to be focused on development functions, not
> teams (even though in our case they are the same).

I've been thinking about compromises because the three pages don't
really get linked to from anywhere else and thus become orphaned. I'm
thinking about adding a new link to the table called "Administrative".
This would link to a new page that would then enumerate these links as
well as links to stuff like "Process".

Thoughts?

-andy


___
linaro-dev mailing list
linaro-dev@lists.linaro.org
http://lists.linaro.org/mailman/listinfo/linaro-dev

Re: ANN: New Wiki Theme

[Joey STANFORD]

Howdy All,

>> Somehow OCTO is missed from the main page. is it possible to have a link
>> to OfficeofCTO? I can add it, is there a list of icons I could select from?
>
> I'm looking into this today. We are also missing a link to the TSC.
> These pages don't receive a lot of traffic so I want to make sure we add
> things like this in a way that don't detract from our most important items.

In the same vein the Project Managers are not there.   We took a
stance at Connect that only things that a developer wants should be
presented on the front page of the developer wiki (which is what this
is). If you don't do this, the page just grows into a website (and we
have one of those already).  Therefore the TSC, PMs, and OCTO were not
added.  We want the wiki to be focused on development functions, not
teams (even though in our case they are the same).  Our next bit of
improvements will be to the WG pages so they focus on functions (and
roles) with teams being a smaller but needed component.  This is all
part of our burgeoning  web framework which will tie in all of our web
assets, not just the wiki.

J

___
linaro-dev mailing list
linaro-dev@lists.linaro.org
http://lists.linaro.org/mailman/listinfo/linaro-dev

Re: ANN: New Wiki Theme

[Andy Doan]

On 11/16/2011 06:15 AM, Dave Martin wrote:
> I think for the table of links we do need an explanation of what each
> item is, though this should literally just be a few words.

Thanks for the feedback!

I've created a bug with all your comments[1]. I'd also like to point out
the road-map I'm trying to put together[2]. I don't really disagree with
anything you've said. However, I have to balance it with other feedback
and direction I've gotten so we don't end up with this[3].

> 
> There are also some things there which would be fairly incomprehensible
> to a newcomer.  What is "Cycles", for example?  People also won't be
> able to guess what "Connect" refers to without laboriously reading the
> other text.
> 
> I would vote for removing all the links from the introductory paragraph
> -- the precence of links disrupts the readability of the text
> unnecessarily IMHO, and putting all the links into the table.

This is an interesting idea. I'm +1'ing it.

> 
> Could we also experiment with ordering the links so that the stuff for
> newcomers appears first, and the resources for developers come afterwards,
> perhaps in a separate table?  We need to give newcomers a bit of extra
> help, because they're the people who will need it.

This is something I'm thinking more on and plan to improve. However, 4
of our most popular pages (Android, DevPlatform, Builds, Source) are in
the top corner of the table.

> On a more frivolous note, could we change the title to something like
> "Welcome to the Linaro Wiki"?  This is friendlier, and helps to
> suggest that the site is for non-experts too.  In practice, the wiki
> isn't just for developers, after all.

I think this might be more of a branding question. I'll have to ask.

1: 
2:

3: 

___
linaro-dev mailing list
linaro-dev@lists.linaro.org
http://lists.linaro.org/mailman/listinfo/linaro-dev

Re: ANN: New Wiki Theme

[Andy Doan]

On 11/16/2011 03:50 AM, Ilias Biris wrote:
> Hi Andy
> 
> +1 on the theme
> 
> Somehow OCTO is missed from the main page. is it possible to have a link
> to OfficeofCTO? I can add it, is there a list of icons I could select from?

I'm looking into this today. We are also missing a link to the TSC.
These pages don't receive a lot of traffic so I want to make sure we add
things like this in a way that don't detract from our most important items.


___
linaro-dev mailing list
linaro-dev@lists.linaro.org
http://lists.linaro.org/mailman/listinfo/linaro-dev

Re: ANN: New Wiki Theme

[Andy Doan]

On 11/16/2011 12:27 AM, Mans Rullgard wrote:
> On 16 November 2011 02:46, Michael Hope  wrote:
>> On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 3:23 PM, Michael Hudson-Doyle
>>  wrote:
>>> On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 19:22:17 -0600, Andy Doan  wrote:
 On 11/15/2011 06:56 PM, Michael Hudson-Doyle wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 14:28:57 -0600, Andy Doan  
> wrote:
>> 2. The standard banner for links to other websites now shows up on the
>> top of the page.
>
> This bit doesn't look so good for me:
> http://people.linaro.org/~mwh/bad-wiki.png (firefox on oneiric).

 You have your preferences pointing to the old theme. You can update it
 to "default" or "linaro-narrow" to see the changes.
>>>
>>> Ah, much better.  I'm *fairly* sure though that I never consciously
>>> edited this, so is it possible that this might have been accidentally
>>> set somehow for some class of users?
>>
>> I almost sent the same email this morning.  Here's my never-sent PNG:
>>  http://people.linaro.org/~michaelh/incoming/wiki.png
>>
>> I don't remember setting the theme either.
> 
> +1

I think there are two ways to deal with this:

 1) Configure the wiki to not allow users to change their theme
 2) Point the old "linaro" theme some people seem to be using to
actually be the new theme.

The first option seems a bit heavy-handed. I'll talk with the IT
department and see if they can do the second option.

-andy

___
linaro-dev mailing list
linaro-dev@lists.linaro.org
http://lists.linaro.org/mailman/listinfo/linaro-dev

Re: ANN: New Wiki Theme

[Dave Martin]

On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 02:28:57PM -0600, Andy Doan wrote:
> We just updated wiki.linare.org with a new default theme. In addition
> we've created a new front page to the wiki that is intended to make some
> of most important links more discoverable.
> 
> Most people should just press refresh to see the changes. However, if
> you've updated your wiki account with the non-default theme, you won't
> see the changes. You'll need to go to "Settings"->"Preferences" and set
> the theme to either "default" or "linaro-narrow".
> 
> While this is mostly cosmetic, we had a session at Connect where we
> outlined many other work items to help make other more substantial
> improvements.
> 
> = Details of Changes (if you are interested)
> 
> 1. The wiki now uses a maximum width for its page content so that text
> doesn't get really wide when you try to read. So now, unless your
> browser is set really narrow, you'll see a border around the sides of
> the page content.
> 
> 2. The standard banner for links to other websites now shows up on the
> top of the page.
> 
> 3. The table-of-contents macro now renders correctly when you try and
> embed it in a table that floats on the right.

That's certainly much less cluttered than the previous page -- it looks
like a good improvement.

I think for the table of links we do need an explanation of what each
item is, though this should literally just be a few words.

There are also some things there which would be fairly incomprehensible
to a newcomer.  What is "Cycles", for example?  People also won't be
able to guess what "Connect" refers to without laboriously reading the
other text.

I would vote for removing all the links from the introductory paragraph
-- the precence of links disrupts the readability of the text
unnecessarily IMHO, and putting all the links into the table.

Could we also experiment with ordering the links so that the stuff for
newcomers appears first, and the resources for developers come afterwards,
perhaps in a separate table?  We need to give newcomers a bit of extra
help, because they're the people who will need it.


On a more frivolous note, could we change the title to something like
"Welcome to the Linaro Wiki"?  This is friendlier, and helps to
suggest that the site is for non-experts too.  In practice, the wiki
isn't just for developers, after all.

Cheers
---Dave

___
linaro-dev mailing list
linaro-dev@lists.linaro.org
http://lists.linaro.org/mailman/listinfo/linaro-dev

Re: ANN: New Wiki Theme

[Dave Pigott]

+1 - Much easier to get where you want to quickly.

Dave

On 15 Nov 2011, at 20:28, Andy Doan wrote:

> We just updated wiki.linare.org with a new default theme. In addition
> we've created a new front page to the wiki that is intended to make some
> of most important links more discoverable.
> 
> Most people should just press refresh to see the changes. However, if
> you've updated your wiki account with the non-default theme, you won't
> see the changes. You'll need to go to "Settings"->"Preferences" and set
> the theme to either "default" or "linaro-narrow".
> 
> While this is mostly cosmetic, we had a session at Connect where we
> outlined many other work items to help make other more substantial
> improvements.
> 
> = Details of Changes (if you are interested)
> 
> 1. The wiki now uses a maximum width for its page content so that text
> doesn't get really wide when you try to read. So now, unless your
> browser is set really narrow, you'll see a border around the sides of
> the page content.
> 
> 2. The standard banner for links to other websites now shows up on the
> top of the page.
> 
> 3. The table-of-contents macro now renders correctly when you try and
> embed it in a table that floats on the right.
> 
> 
> -andy
> 
> ___
> linaro-dev mailing list
> linaro-dev@lists.linaro.org
> http://lists.linaro.org/mailman/listinfo/linaro-dev


___
linaro-dev mailing list
linaro-dev@lists.linaro.org
http://lists.linaro.org/mailman/listinfo/linaro-dev

Re: ANN: New Wiki Theme

[Ilias Biris]

Hi Andy

+1 on the theme

Somehow OCTO is missed from the main page. is it possible to have a link
to OfficeofCTO? I can add it, is there a list of icons I could select from?

thanks,

On 15/11/11 22:28, Andy Doan wrote:
> We just updated wiki.linare.org with a new default theme. In addition
> we've created a new front page to the wiki that is intended to make some
> of most important links more discoverable.
> 
> Most people should just press refresh to see the changes. However, if
> you've updated your wiki account with the non-default theme, you won't
> see the changes. You'll need to go to "Settings"->"Preferences" and set
> the theme to either "default" or "linaro-narrow".
> 
> While this is mostly cosmetic, we had a session at Connect where we
> outlined many other work items to help make other more substantial
> improvements.
> 
> = Details of Changes (if you are interested)
> 
> 1. The wiki now uses a maximum width for its page content so that text
> doesn't get really wide when you try to read. So now, unless your
> browser is set really narrow, you'll see a border around the sides of
> the page content.
> 
> 2. The standard banner for links to other websites now shows up on the
> top of the page.
> 
> 3. The table-of-contents macro now renders correctly when you try and
> embed it in a table that floats on the right.
> 
> 
> -andy
> 
> ___
> linaro-dev mailing list
> linaro-dev@lists.linaro.org
> http://lists.linaro.org/mailman/listinfo/linaro-dev


-- 
Ilias Biris ilias.bi...@linaro.org
Project Manager, Linaro
M: +358504839608, IRC: ibiris Skype: ilias_biris
Linaro.org│ Open source software for ARM SoCs

___
linaro-dev mailing list
linaro-dev@lists.linaro.org
http://lists.linaro.org/mailman/listinfo/linaro-dev

Re: ANN: New Wiki Theme

[Mans Rullgard]

On 16 November 2011 02:46, Michael Hope  wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 3:23 PM, Michael Hudson-Doyle
>  wrote:
>> On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 19:22:17 -0600, Andy Doan  wrote:
>>> On 11/15/2011 06:56 PM, Michael Hudson-Doyle wrote:
>>> > On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 14:28:57 -0600, Andy Doan  
>>> > wrote:
>>> >> 2. The standard banner for links to other websites now shows up on the
>>> >> top of the page.
>>> >
>>> > This bit doesn't look so good for me:
>>> > http://people.linaro.org/~mwh/bad-wiki.png (firefox on oneiric).
>>>
>>> You have your preferences pointing to the old theme. You can update it
>>> to "default" or "linaro-narrow" to see the changes.
>>
>> Ah, much better.  I'm *fairly* sure though that I never consciously
>> edited this, so is it possible that this might have been accidentally
>> set somehow for some class of users?
>
> I almost sent the same email this morning.  Here's my never-sent PNG:
>  http://people.linaro.org/~michaelh/incoming/wiki.png
>
> I don't remember setting the theme either.

+1

-- 
Mans Rullgard / mru

___
linaro-dev mailing list
linaro-dev@lists.linaro.org
http://lists.linaro.org/mailman/listinfo/linaro-dev

Re: ANN: New Wiki Theme

[Michael Hope]

On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 3:23 PM, Michael Hudson-Doyle
 wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 19:22:17 -0600, Andy Doan  wrote:
>> On 11/15/2011 06:56 PM, Michael Hudson-Doyle wrote:
>> > On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 14:28:57 -0600, Andy Doan  wrote:
>> >> 2. The standard banner for links to other websites now shows up on the
>> >> top of the page.
>> >
>> > This bit doesn't look so good for me:
>> > http://people.linaro.org/~mwh/bad-wiki.png (firefox on oneiric).
>>
>> You have your preferences pointing to the old theme. You can update it
>> to "default" or "linaro-narrow" to see the changes.
>
> Ah, much better.  I'm *fairly* sure though that I never consciously
> edited this, so is it possible that this might have been accidentally
> set somehow for some class of users?

I almost sent the same email this morning.  Here's my never-sent PNG:
 http://people.linaro.org/~michaelh/incoming/wiki.png

I don't remember setting the theme either.

-- Michael

___
linaro-dev mailing list
linaro-dev@lists.linaro.org
http://lists.linaro.org/mailman/listinfo/linaro-dev

Re: ANN: New Wiki Theme

[Michael Hudson-Doyle]

On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 19:22:17 -0600, Andy Doan  wrote:
> On 11/15/2011 06:56 PM, Michael Hudson-Doyle wrote:
> > On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 14:28:57 -0600, Andy Doan  wrote:
> >> 2. The standard banner for links to other websites now shows up on the
> >> top of the page.
> > 
> > This bit doesn't look so good for me:
> > http://people.linaro.org/~mwh/bad-wiki.png (firefox on oneiric).
> 
> You have your preferences pointing to the old theme. You can update it
> to "default" or "linaro-narrow" to see the changes.

Ah, much better.  I'm *fairly* sure though that I never consciously
edited this, so is it possible that this might have been accidentally
set somehow for some class of users?

Cheers,
mwh

___
linaro-dev mailing list
linaro-dev@lists.linaro.org
http://lists.linaro.org/mailman/listinfo/linaro-dev

Re: ANN: New Wiki Theme

[Andy Doan]

On 11/15/2011 06:56 PM, Michael Hudson-Doyle wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 14:28:57 -0600, Andy Doan  wrote:
>> 2. The standard banner for links to other websites now shows up on the
>> top of the page.
> 
> This bit doesn't look so good for me:
> http://people.linaro.org/~mwh/bad-wiki.png (firefox on oneiric).

You have your preferences pointing to the old theme. You can update it
to "default" or "linaro-narrow" to see the changes.

___
linaro-dev mailing list
linaro-dev@lists.linaro.org
http://lists.linaro.org/mailman/listinfo/linaro-dev

Re: ANN: New Wiki Theme

[Michael Hudson-Doyle]

On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 14:28:57 -0600, Andy Doan  wrote:
> We just updated wiki.linare.org with a new default theme. In addition
> we've created a new front page to the wiki that is intended to make some
> of most important links more discoverable.

\o/

> 2. The standard banner for links to other websites now shows up on the
> top of the page.

This bit doesn't look so good for me:
http://people.linaro.org/~mwh/bad-wiki.png (firefox on oneiric).

Cheers,
mwh

___
linaro-dev mailing list
linaro-dev@lists.linaro.org
http://lists.linaro.org/mailman/listinfo/linaro-dev

ANN: New Wiki Theme

[Andy Doan]

We just updated wiki.linare.org with a new default theme. In addition
we've created a new front page to the wiki that is intended to make some
of most important links more discoverable.

Most people should just press refresh to see the changes. However, if
you've updated your wiki account with the non-default theme, you won't
see the changes. You'll need to go to "Settings"->"Preferences" and set
the theme to either "default" or "linaro-narrow".

While this is mostly cosmetic, we had a session at Connect where we
outlined many other work items to help make other more substantial
improvements.

= Details of Changes (if you are interested)

1. The wiki now uses a maximum width for its page content so that text
doesn't get really wide when you try to read. So now, unless your
browser is set really narrow, you'll see a border around the sides of
the page content.

2. The standard banner for links to other websites now shows up on the
top of the page.

3. The table-of-contents macro now renders correctly when you try and
embed it in a table that floats on the right.


-andy

___
linaro-dev mailing list
linaro-dev@lists.linaro.org
http://lists.linaro.org/mailman/listinfo/linaro-dev