Re: [LincolnTalk] Housing Choice Act and Exclusionary Zoning Report-the HAC will make us even more exclusive.

[Lis Herbert]

This process has been discussed and surveyed for so long that it is hard to believe anybody really thinks it’s been rushed. And the reason the proposed zoning is concentrated at Lincoln Station is because that is what the long process resulted in — most people (still) think this is right for any number of reasons, not least the fact that it is near public transit, it is already at least partially developed and in some cases parking lots, and spreading it around town will make Lincoln feel more suburban, not less. So much of our land is protected, apparently wildlife won’t be negatively impacted by building on parking lots, and density translates to sustainability. Most importantly, the housing crisis can’t be brushed aside as other people’s problems — it impacts people at all levels and stages of life, and it is wrong not to try to make a meaningful, good-faith effort to help.And to answer the (possibly rhetorical) question I saw over the weekend: the reason we should hope people from other towns would consider shopping at Donelan’s is the same reason you shouldn’t keep a good restaurant to yourself. If the numbers don’t work they’ll close.So thank you to the HCAWG —Your fan,LisSent from my iPhoneOn Nov 13, 2023, at 11:04 AM, Robert Ahlert  wrote:The Dec 2nd "Survey" (non-binding) doesn't contain a full spectrum of options for the town to choose from unless the Selects, Planning Board, HCAWG decide to change course tonight to open up the process and give more time.  This isn't due until Dec 2024 so why rush this?  Just to have a March 2024 town vote? That is 9 months early. We could be spending that time coming up with a GREAT compromise solution that a solid majority of townspeople can get behind.I urge you to write your selects to ask foore "More Time, More Options"We have some good "E" alternatives including Options that include the Mall, all we need to do is discuss it and not rush.  The HCAWG wants to finalize this EARLY for some reason, why?Rob A185 Lincoln Rd, Lincoln, MA 01773On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 10:48 AM Buell, Lawrence  wrote:







Not so, I think it will be found on Dec 2, though maybe I’m wrong—
Larry Buell
Tower Road
 

From: Lincoln  On Behalf Of
Bob Kupperstein
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 10:12 AM
To: Bijoy Misra 
Cc: Listserv Listserv 
Subject: Re: [LincolnTalk] Housing Choice Act and Exclusionary Zoning Report-the HAC will make us even more exclusive.

 


 

 


On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 3:59 PM Bijoy Misra  wrote:




... The overwhelming voice is to exclude the Lincoln


station area until a full analysis is done. 




... 




Best regards,


Bijoy Misra       


 


 


I believe this to be completely unsubstantiated.   


 


It may be the view of the loudest/most persistent voices on LT, but AFAIK there isn't any poll that shows a
majority view to exclude Lincoln Station (or anything else to do with the HCA).


 


-Bob


 


 




On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 10:19 AM DJCP  wrote:




First, I did not say I wanted people from other towns flocking here.  I said the opposite.



 


Second, I would love to maintain the rural character of Lincoln, too, but the fact is we have a severe housing shortage not just in Massachusetts but across the country. Families who work full
 time, multiple jobs cannot afford apartments, much less condos or homes.  There are people looking to step into home ownership who can't because they are priced out.  The Massachusetts shelter system is full, not just from refugees and immigrants, but from
 people who cannot find housing, no matter how much assistance they have.  So, yes, even luxury condos would help.  (Though I see the town's commendable track record of negotiating a higher level of affordable housing and trust them to continue to do the same.) 
 But it is also true that Lincoln's exclusionary zoning - which has maintained the rural character we love - has contributed to the housing crisis.   Lastly, I would love more taxpayers to come to town because in the end I am also a capitalist and would like
 to see my taxes go down.  So I can buy berries for my kids with abandon. 


 


Diana 


Giles Rd 



 


On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 9:45 AM gail o'keefe  wrote:



Why on earth would we want people from other towns flocking to Lincoln for their groceries?? The beauty of Lincoln's current commercial area is it provides just what the town needs, and not more. This is an environmentally sound model,
 if not one for thriving capitalism. Lincoln's affordable housing can be expanded without giving up control to developers.

 


Many people move to Lincoln specifically to avoid the traffic and commercial pressures that are evident in neighboring towns, once beautifully semi-rural, now overbuilt with strip malls. Lincoln has been preserved over the decades by careful
 planning and zoning. 

Re: [LincolnTalk] Housing Choice Act and Exclusionary Zoning Report-the HAC will make us even more exclusive.

[Bijoy Misra]

Can you please cite what is substantiated and by what means?

On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 10:12 AM Bob Kupperstein  wrote:

>
>
> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 3:59 PM Bijoy Misra  wrote:
>
>> ... *The overwhelming voice is to exclude the Lincoln*
>> *station area until a full analysis is done.*
>>
> ...
>
>> Best regards,
>> Bijoy Misra
>>
>>
> I believe this to be completely unsubstantiated.
>
> It may be the view of the loudest/most persistent voices on LT, but AFAIK
> there isn't any poll that shows a *majority* view to exclude Lincoln
> Station (or anything else to do with the HCA).
>
> -Bob
>
>
>
>> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 10:19 AM DJCP  wrote:
>>
>>> First, I did not say I wanted people from other towns flocking here.  I
>>> said the opposite.
>>>
>>> Second, I would love to maintain the rural character of Lincoln, too,
>>> but the fact is we have a severe housing shortage not just in Massachusetts
>>> but across the country. Families who work full time, multiple jobs cannot
>>> afford apartments, much less condos or homes.  There are people looking to
>>> step into home ownership who can't because they are priced out.  The
>>> Massachusetts shelter system is full, not just from refugees and
>>> immigrants, but from people who cannot find housing, no matter how much
>>> assistance they have.  So, yes, even luxury condos would help.  (Though I
>>> see the town's commendable track record of negotiating a higher level of
>>> affordable housing and trust them to continue to do the same.)  But it is
>>> also true that Lincoln's exclusionary zoning - which has maintained the
>>> rural character we love - has contributed to the housing crisis.   Lastly,
>>> I would love more taxpayers to come to town because in the end I am also a
>>> capitalist and would like to see my taxes go down.  So I can buy berries
>>> for my kids with abandon.
>>>
>>> Diana
>>> Giles Rd
>>>
>>> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 9:45 AM gail o'keefe 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Why on earth would we want people from other towns flocking to Lincoln
 for their groceries?? The beauty of Lincoln's current commercial area is it
 provides just what the town needs, and not more. This is an environmentally
 sound model, if not one for thriving capitalism. Lincoln's affordable
 housing can be expanded without giving up control to developers.

 Many people move to Lincoln specifically to avoid the traffic and
 commercial pressures that are evident in neighboring towns, once
 beautifully semi-rural, now overbuilt with strip malls. Lincoln has been
 preserved over the decades by careful planning and zoning.

  As an example of developer-friendly zoning, Lexington has long had
 commercial zoning in the center, yet there are empty storefronts and over a
 dozen random banks. There are only two restaurants that have lasted over
 the years, dozens have shuttered. Zoning for the benefit of developers
 doesn't guarantee businesses will come, or stay. Belmont is also struggling
 with empty storefronts, it is happening across the region. Developers come
 and go, but residents are left with the developers' decisions, rarely based
 on the long term goals of the town. This is not a good model for Lincoln.
 If Lincoln cedes control to developers, it is in perpetuity, it can't be
 reversed.

 Many in town hope that the working group of the HCA ruling will slow
 the process, take the necessary time to address the concerns of the
 townspeople, and allow alternative choices on the ballot.

 Gail O'Keefe



 On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 8:14 AM DJCP  wrote:

> The best way to make sure commercial stays commercial is to make the
> businesses viable and the best way to do that is to make sure there are
> people shopping there. Sorry but people from other towns are not flocking
> to Lincoln to buy $10 pints of strawberries from Donelans. And I've only
> been here 5 years and have noticed the string of restaurants that have
> tried to fill the ONE space. Whether we make any changes there's no
> guarantee these businesses will stick around. That's capitalism folks. But
> we can help by AT LEAST zoning for more housing in the area.
>
> Diana
> Giles Rd
>
> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023, 8:08 AM Peter Buchthal 
> wrote:
>
>> Along similar lines, how can the town ensure commercial space stays
>> commercial as the new owners could easily decide to raise very high or 
>> not
>> renew any commercial lease in order to build more luxury residential 
>> units
>> by right as long as the project has unused housing units within the 
>> zoning
>> allotment.
>>
>>
>> Peter Buchthal
>> Weston Rd
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 11, 2023 at 12:27 PM David Cuetos 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> How can the RLF guarantee that any particular commercial space will
>>> remain once they sell the land to 

Re: [LincolnTalk] Housing Choice Act and Exclusionary Zoning Report-the HAC will make us even more exclusive.

[Terri via Lincoln]

 Is  RLF nearing  bankruptcy? It sure feels that way...Hence this urgency to 
rezone the town center.  This is not "just a zoning change"...Let's be real 
here...  Most, if not all rezoning ends with major building.  This is not about 
climate change or to "fix" the housing crisis... sadly, this is all  about 
Builders making a huge profit.   Going forwardMore 
transparency/communication from the RLF leadership team would be most 
appreciated. 

Theresa K

On Sunday, November 12, 2023 at 11:04:00 AM EST, DJCP  
wrote:  
 
 The town has been working on this for 18 months. Diffuse options were 
considered, but the overwhelming voices back when the options were being first 
formulated said to concentrate everything in town center.  And I am willing to 
bet that is still true.  To me, it seems that a small but vocal group of people 
are speaking up now.  But we need to vote to comply with the HCA in short 
order.  That is why this process started over a year ago!  As it is, this is 
just a zoning change, and there are no guarantees anything will be built.  But 
it's still more than thoughts and prayers to fix the housing (and climate) 
crisis. 

Diana 
Giles Rd

On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 10:41 AM Bijoy Misra  wrote:

Everyone is sympathetic to housing and new people.  The issue iswhere to build. 
 The overwhelming voice is to exclude the Lincolnstation area until a full 
analysis is done.  Congestion, transport and environment are the issues.  Hence 
the appeal is for distributedhousing.  To sell the Lincoln station area for 
residential developmentwithout analysis would be suicidal for the town.  I am 
speaking on behalfof many who wish to live here and develop the town 
wholesomeretaining its character. Best regards,Bijoy Misra       
On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 10:19 AM DJCP  wrote:

First, I did not say I wanted people from other towns flocking here.  I said 
the opposite. 

Second, I would love to maintain the rural character of Lincoln, too, but the 
fact is we have a severe housing shortage not just in Massachusetts but across 
the country. Families who work full time, multiple jobs cannot afford 
apartments, much less condos or homes.  There are people looking to step into 
home ownership who can't because they are priced out.  The Massachusetts 
shelter system is full, not just from refugees and immigrants, but from people 
who cannot find housing, no matter how much assistance they have.  So, yes, 
even luxury condos would help.  (Though I see the town's commendable track 
record of negotiating a higher level of affordable housing and trust them to 
continue to do the same.)  But it is also true that Lincoln's exclusionary 
zoning - which has maintained the rural character we love - has contributed to 
the housing crisis.   Lastly, I would love more taxpayers to come to town 
because in the end I am also a capitalist and would like to see my taxes go 
down.  So I can buy berries for my kids with abandon. 

Diana 
Giles Rd 

On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 9:45 AM gail o'keefe  wrote:

Why on earth would we want people from other towns flocking to Lincoln for 
their groceries?? The beauty of Lincoln's current commercial area is it 
provides just what the town needs, and not more. This is an environmentally 
sound model, if not one for thriving capitalism. Lincoln's affordable housing 
can be expanded without giving up control to developers.
Many people move to Lincoln specifically to avoid the traffic and commercial 
pressures that are evident in neighboring towns, once beautifully semi-rural, 
now overbuilt with strip malls. Lincoln has been preserved over the decades by 
careful planning and zoning. 

 As an example of developer-friendly zoning, Lexington has long had commercial 
zoning in the center, yet there are empty storefronts and over a dozen random 
banks. There are only two restaurants that have lasted over the years, dozens 
have shuttered. Zoning for the benefit of developers doesn't guarantee 
businesses will come, or stay. Belmont is also struggling with empty 
storefronts, it is happening across the region. Developers come and go, but 
residents are left with the developers' decisions, rarely based on the long 
term goals of the town. This is not a good model for Lincoln. If Lincoln cedes 
control to developers, it is in perpetuity, it can't be reversed.
Many in town hope that the working group of the HCA ruling will slow the 
process, take the necessary time to address the concerns of the townspeople, 
and allow alternative choices on the ballot.
Gail O'Keefe


On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 8:14 AM DJCP  wrote:

The best way to make sure commercial stays commercial is to make the businesses 
viable and the best way to do that is to make sure there are people shopping 
there. Sorry but people from other towns are not flocking to Lincoln to buy $10 
pints of strawberries from Donelans. And I've only been here 5 years and have 
noticed the string of restaurants that have tried to fill the ONE 

Re: [LincolnTalk] Housing Choice Act and Exclusionary Zoning Report-the HAC will make us even more exclusive.

[Robert Ahlert]

The Dec 2nd "Survey" (non-binding) doesn't contain a full spectrum of
options for the town to choose from unless the Selects, Planning Board,
HCAWG decide to change course *tonight* to open up the process and give
more time.  This isn't due until Dec 2024 so why rush this?  Just to have a
March 2024 town vote? That is *9 months early.* We could be spending that
time coming up with a GREAT compromise solution that a solid majority of
townspeople can get behind.

I urge you to write your selects to ask foore "More Time, More Options"

We have some good "E" alternatives including Options that include the Mall,
all we need to do is discuss it and not rush.  The HCAWG wants to finalize
this EARLY for some reason, why?

Rob A
185 Lincoln Rd, Lincoln, MA 01773

On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 10:48 AM Buell, Lawrence 
wrote:

> Not so, I think it will be found on Dec 2, though maybe I’m wrong—
>
> Larry Buell
>
> Tower Road
>
>
>
> *From:* Lincoln  *On Behalf Of *Bob
> Kupperstein
> *Sent:* Monday, November 13, 2023 10:12 AM
> *To:* Bijoy Misra 
> *Cc:* Listserv Listserv 
> *Subject:* Re: [LincolnTalk] Housing Choice Act and Exclusionary Zoning
> Report-the HAC will make us even more exclusive.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 3:59 PM Bijoy Misra  wrote:
>
> ... *The overwhelming voice is to exclude the Lincoln*
>
> *station area until a full analysis is done.*
>
> ...
>
> Best regards,
>
> Bijoy Misra
>
>
>
>
>
> I believe this to be completely unsubstantiated.
>
>
>
> It may be the view of the loudest/most persistent voices on LT, but AFAIK
> there isn't any poll that shows a *majority* view to exclude Lincoln
> Station (or anything else to do with the HCA).
>
>
>
> -Bob
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 10:19 AM DJCP  wrote:
>
> First, I did not say I wanted people from other towns flocking here.  I
> said the opposite.
>
>
>
> Second, I would love to maintain the rural character of Lincoln, too, but
> the fact is we have a severe housing shortage not just in Massachusetts but
> across the country. Families who work full time, multiple jobs cannot
> afford apartments, much less condos or homes.  There are people looking to
> step into home ownership who can't because they are priced out.  The
> Massachusetts shelter system is full, not just from refugees and
> immigrants, but from people who cannot find housing, no matter how much
> assistance they have.  So, yes, even luxury condos would help.  (Though I
> see the town's commendable track record of negotiating a higher level of
> affordable housing and trust them to continue to do the same.)  But it is
> also true that Lincoln's exclusionary zoning - which has maintained the
> rural character we love - has contributed to the housing crisis.   Lastly,
> I would love more taxpayers to come to town because in the end I am also a
> capitalist and would like to see my taxes go down.  So I can buy berries
> for my kids with abandon.
>
>
>
> Diana
>
> Giles Rd
>
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 9:45 AM gail o'keefe  wrote:
>
> Why on earth would we want people from other towns flocking to Lincoln for
> their groceries?? The beauty of Lincoln's current commercial area is it
> provides just what the town needs, and not more. This is an environmentally
> sound model, if not one for thriving capitalism. Lincoln's affordable
> housing can be expanded without giving up control to developers.
>
>
>
> Many people move to Lincoln specifically to avoid the traffic and
> commercial pressures that are evident in neighboring towns, once
> beautifully semi-rural, now overbuilt with strip malls. Lincoln has been
> preserved over the decades by careful planning and zoning.
>
>
>
>  As an example of developer-friendly zoning, Lexington has long had
> commercial zoning in the center, yet there are empty storefronts and over a
> dozen random banks. There are only two restaurants that have lasted over
> the years, dozens have shuttered. Zoning for the benefit of developers
> doesn't guarantee businesses will come, or stay. Belmont is also struggling
> with empty storefronts, it is happening across the region. Developers come
> and go, but residents are left with the developers' decisions, rarely based
> on the long term goals of the town. This is not a good model for Lincoln.
> If Lincoln cedes control to developers, it is in perpetuity, it can't be
> reversed.
>
>
>
> Many in town hope that the working group of the HCA ruling will slow the
> process, take the necessary time to address the concerns of the
> townspeople, and allow alternative choices on the ballot.
>
>
>
> Gail O'Keefe
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 8:14 AM DJCP  wrote:
>
> The best way to make sure commercial stays commercial is to make the
> businesses viable and the best way to do that is to make sure there are
> people shopping there. Sorry but people from other towns are not flocking
> to Lincoln to buy $10 pints of strawberries from Donelans. And I've only
> been here 5 years and have noticed the string of 

Re: [LincolnTalk] Housing Choice Act and Exclusionary Zoning Report-the HAC will make us even more exclusive.

[Buell, Lawrence]

Not so, I think it will be found on Dec 2, though maybe I’m wrong—
Larry Buell
Tower Road

From: Lincoln  On Behalf Of Bob Kupperstein
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 10:12 AM
To: Bijoy Misra 
Cc: Listserv Listserv 
Subject: Re: [LincolnTalk] Housing Choice Act and Exclusionary Zoning 
Report-the HAC will make us even more exclusive.



On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 3:59 PM Bijoy Misra 
mailto:misra.bi...@gmail.com>> wrote:
... The overwhelming voice is to exclude the Lincoln
station area until a full analysis is done.
...
Best regards,
Bijoy Misra


I believe this to be completely unsubstantiated.

It may be the view of the loudest/most persistent voices on LT, but AFAIK there 
isn't any poll that shows a majority view to exclude Lincoln Station (or 
anything else to do with the HCA).

-Bob


On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 10:19 AM DJCP 
mailto:djcp0...@gmail.com>> wrote:
First, I did not say I wanted people from other towns flocking here.  I said 
the opposite.

Second, I would love to maintain the rural character of Lincoln, too, but the 
fact is we have a severe housing shortage not just in Massachusetts but across 
the country. Families who work full time, multiple jobs cannot afford 
apartments, much less condos or homes.  There are people looking to step into 
home ownership who can't because they are priced out.  The Massachusetts 
shelter system is full, not just from refugees and immigrants, but from people 
who cannot find housing, no matter how much assistance they have.  So, yes, 
even luxury condos would help.  (Though I see the town's commendable track 
record of negotiating a higher level of affordable housing and trust them to 
continue to do the same.)  But it is also true that Lincoln's exclusionary 
zoning - which has maintained the rural character we love - has contributed to 
the housing crisis.   Lastly, I would love more taxpayers to come to town 
because in the end I am also a capitalist and would like to see my taxes go 
down.  So I can buy berries for my kids with abandon.

Diana
Giles Rd

On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 9:45 AM gail o'keefe 
mailto:gailoke...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Why on earth would we want people from other towns flocking to Lincoln for 
their groceries?? The beauty of Lincoln's current commercial area is it 
provides just what the town needs, and not more. This is an environmentally 
sound model, if not one for thriving capitalism. Lincoln's affordable housing 
can be expanded without giving up control to developers.

Many people move to Lincoln specifically to avoid the traffic and commercial 
pressures that are evident in neighboring towns, once beautifully semi-rural, 
now overbuilt with strip malls. Lincoln has been preserved over the decades by 
careful planning and zoning.

 As an example of developer-friendly zoning, Lexington has long had commercial 
zoning in the center, yet there are empty storefronts and over a dozen random 
banks. There are only two restaurants that have lasted over the years, dozens 
have shuttered. Zoning for the benefit of developers doesn't guarantee 
businesses will come, or stay. Belmont is also struggling with empty 
storefronts, it is happening across the region. Developers come and go, but 
residents are left with the developers' decisions, rarely based on the long 
term goals of the town. This is not a good model for Lincoln. If Lincoln cedes 
control to developers, it is in perpetuity, it can't be reversed.

Many in town hope that the working group of the HCA ruling will slow the 
process, take the necessary time to address the concerns of the townspeople, 
and allow alternative choices on the ballot.

Gail O'Keefe



On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 8:14 AM DJCP 
mailto:djcp0...@gmail.com>> wrote:
The best way to make sure commercial stays commercial is to make the businesses 
viable and the best way to do that is to make sure there are people shopping 
there. Sorry but people from other towns are not flocking to Lincoln to buy $10 
pints of strawberries from Donelans. And I've only been here 5 years and have 
noticed the string of restaurants that have tried to fill the ONE space. 
Whether we make any changes there's no guarantee these businesses will stick 
around. That's capitalism folks. But we can help by AT LEAST zoning for more 
housing in the area.

Diana
Giles Rd

On Sun, Nov 12, 2023, 8:08 AM Peter Buchthal 
mailto:pbucht...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Along similar lines, how can the town ensure commercial space stays commercial 
as the new owners could easily decide to raise very high or not renew any 
commercial lease in order to build more luxury residential units by right as 
long as the project has unused housing units within the zoning allotment.


Peter Buchthal
Weston Rd

On Sat, Nov 11, 2023 at 12:27 PM David Cuetos 
mailto:davidcue...@gmail.com>> wrote:
How can the RLF guarantee that any particular commercial space will remain once 
they sell the land to Civico? Are they planning to include a requirement for a 
supermarket in the deed? 

Re: [LincolnTalk] Housing Choice Act and Exclusionary Zoning Report-the HAC will make us even more exclusive.

[Bob Kupperstein]

On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 3:59 PM Bijoy Misra  wrote:

> ... *The overwhelming voice is to exclude the Lincoln*
> *station area until a full analysis is done.*
>
...

> Best regards,
> Bijoy Misra
>
>
I believe this to be completely unsubstantiated.

It may be the view of the loudest/most persistent voices on LT, but AFAIK
there isn't any poll that shows a *majority* view to exclude Lincoln
Station (or anything else to do with the HCA).

-Bob



> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 10:19 AM DJCP  wrote:
>
>> First, I did not say I wanted people from other towns flocking here.  I
>> said the opposite.
>>
>> Second, I would love to maintain the rural character of Lincoln, too, but
>> the fact is we have a severe housing shortage not just in Massachusetts but
>> across the country. Families who work full time, multiple jobs cannot
>> afford apartments, much less condos or homes.  There are people looking to
>> step into home ownership who can't because they are priced out.  The
>> Massachusetts shelter system is full, not just from refugees and
>> immigrants, but from people who cannot find housing, no matter how much
>> assistance they have.  So, yes, even luxury condos would help.  (Though I
>> see the town's commendable track record of negotiating a higher level of
>> affordable housing and trust them to continue to do the same.)  But it is
>> also true that Lincoln's exclusionary zoning - which has maintained the
>> rural character we love - has contributed to the housing crisis.   Lastly,
>> I would love more taxpayers to come to town because in the end I am also a
>> capitalist and would like to see my taxes go down.  So I can buy berries
>> for my kids with abandon.
>>
>> Diana
>> Giles Rd
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 9:45 AM gail o'keefe 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Why on earth would we want people from other towns flocking to Lincoln
>>> for their groceries?? The beauty of Lincoln's current commercial area is it
>>> provides just what the town needs, and not more. This is an environmentally
>>> sound model, if not one for thriving capitalism. Lincoln's affordable
>>> housing can be expanded without giving up control to developers.
>>>
>>> Many people move to Lincoln specifically to avoid the traffic and
>>> commercial pressures that are evident in neighboring towns, once
>>> beautifully semi-rural, now overbuilt with strip malls. Lincoln has been
>>> preserved over the decades by careful planning and zoning.
>>>
>>>  As an example of developer-friendly zoning, Lexington has long had
>>> commercial zoning in the center, yet there are empty storefronts and over a
>>> dozen random banks. There are only two restaurants that have lasted over
>>> the years, dozens have shuttered. Zoning for the benefit of developers
>>> doesn't guarantee businesses will come, or stay. Belmont is also struggling
>>> with empty storefronts, it is happening across the region. Developers come
>>> and go, but residents are left with the developers' decisions, rarely based
>>> on the long term goals of the town. This is not a good model for Lincoln.
>>> If Lincoln cedes control to developers, it is in perpetuity, it can't be
>>> reversed.
>>>
>>> Many in town hope that the working group of the HCA ruling will slow the
>>> process, take the necessary time to address the concerns of the
>>> townspeople, and allow alternative choices on the ballot.
>>>
>>> Gail O'Keefe
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 8:14 AM DJCP  wrote:
>>>
 The best way to make sure commercial stays commercial is to make the
 businesses viable and the best way to do that is to make sure there are
 people shopping there. Sorry but people from other towns are not flocking
 to Lincoln to buy $10 pints of strawberries from Donelans. And I've only
 been here 5 years and have noticed the string of restaurants that have
 tried to fill the ONE space. Whether we make any changes there's no
 guarantee these businesses will stick around. That's capitalism folks. But
 we can help by AT LEAST zoning for more housing in the area.

 Diana
 Giles Rd

 On Sun, Nov 12, 2023, 8:08 AM Peter Buchthal 
 wrote:

> Along similar lines, how can the town ensure commercial space stays
> commercial as the new owners could easily decide to raise very high or not
> renew any commercial lease in order to build more luxury residential units
> by right as long as the project has unused housing units within the zoning
> allotment.
>
>
> Peter Buchthal
> Weston Rd
>
> On Sat, Nov 11, 2023 at 12:27 PM David Cuetos 
> wrote:
>
>> How can the RLF guarantee that any particular commercial space will
>> remain once they sell the land to Civico? Are they planning to include
>> a requirement for a supermarket in the deed? Anything else would just be 
>> a
>> "recommendation".
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 10, 2023 at 6:09 PM Margo Fisher-Martin <
>> margo.fisher.mar...@gmail.com> wrote:

Re: [LincolnTalk] Housing Choice Act and Exclusionary Zoning Report-the HAC will make us even more exclusive.

[ٍSarah Postlethwait]

Could anyone on the Planning Board and/or HCAWG disclose what percentage of
commercial will be required in the Mandatory Mixed Use district?

What percentage of a building and/or lot will be required to be commercial?

Would commercial parking count towards the maximum commercial % lot
coverage, or does the lot coverage only apply to buildings?

Thank you!
Sarah Postlethwait

On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 2:35 PM Margaret Olson 
wrote:

> The proposed zoning for the mall has a mandatory retail component.
>
> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 2:13 PM Sara Mattes  wrote:
>
>> So, are we now giving up retail at the mall?
>>
>> --
>> Sara Mattes
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Nov 12, 2023, at 2:08 PM, Rich Rosenbaum  wrote:
>>
>> Given the history of businesses leaving the mall, $165k seems to be a
>> thin margin for predicting future rental profitability.
>>
>> It might be noted that rental income is only part of the RLF financials.
>> Their overall net seems to be $212,000 for 2022 and -$251,431 (loss) for
>> the prior year. That doesn't paint a picture of financial stability to me.
>>
>> Rich
>> (not an accountant, either)
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 10:07 AM Karla Gravis 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I want to emphasize that the Mall is currently a profitable concern.The
>>> RLF disclosed a rental profit of $164,571 in 2022. Details here
>>> .
>>> However, if we rezone it by right, Civico would get to decide what
>>> mix of commercial and residential to build. As a private enterprise, they
>>> will choose to build whatever leads to the highest profits, which we know
>>> is residential. Ms. Barnes mentioned that commercial space will be
>>> reduced during the forum on Wednesday. We have no guarantees that
>>> Civico would maintain Donelan's or any of the existing commercial space. 
>>> This
>>> outcome would be at odds with our goal of supporting our commercial center
>>> and reducing the town's carbon footprint. This is one of the reasons why it
>>> is so important that the Mall redevelopment goes through Town Meeting.
>>>
>>> It is also important to puncture the myth that building units at Lincoln
>>> Station would do much to boost the commercial prospects of the area:
>>>
>>>- The Planning Board released a Lincoln Station Planning Study in
>>>2014. The study concluded that each 100 units added would only support
>>>2,500 sq ft of space. For reference, Donelan's footprint is 20,387 sq ft.
>>>Study  here
>>>
>>> 
>>>- 2,500 sq ft of commercial space per 100 units is probably a very
>>>optimistic number. The Study assumed that the leakage (% of convenience
>>>buys by residents that happen outside of Lincoln Station) would come down
>>>from 80% to 50%. If we use the actual 80% leakage, those 100 units would
>>>only support 1,000 sq ft of space.
>>>- In all likelihood the leakage is actually higher than 80% today
>>>given the increased penetration of online sales in the nine years 
>>> elapsed.
>>>
>>> --
>> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
>> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
>> Browse the archives at
>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/.
>> Change your subscription settings at
>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
>>
>>
>> --
>> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
>> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
>> Browse the archives at
>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/.
>> Change your subscription settings at
>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
>>
>> --
> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
> Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/
> .
> Change your subscription settings at
> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
>
>
-- 
The LincolnTalk mailing list.
To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
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Re: [LincolnTalk] Housing Choice Act and Exclusionary Zoning Report-the HAC will make us even more exclusive.

[Bayhas Kana]

I don’t believe that renders the study results invalid, specially after
reading it in depth

The survey is well stratified over several days to prevent exactly that
claim, if the results are not favorable to one’s views, it does not mean
the study is inadmissible

The study:
https://www.lincolntown.org/DocumentCenter/View/65765/Lincoln-Station-Planning-Study-3-27-2014bwfinal


Bayhas



On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 11:33 AM Margaret Olson 
wrote:

> I am saying that I personally did not think the right questions were asked
> at the right time of day.
>
> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 11:19 AM ٍSarah Postlethwait 
> wrote:
>
>> Are you saying that the survey and report are not accurate?
>>
>> None of the days listed in the survey are a public holiday.
>>
>> April 12, 13, 16, 17, 24, 27, and 29, and May 8, 2013
>>
>> The only public holiday around that time is Patriots day, April 15, which
>> was not a day listed.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 11:12 AM Margaret Olson 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In commenting on the survey I was referring only to the impact of the
>>> train on retail. I was on the planning board at the time and asked the
>>> consultant for details. I was not happy with the answers.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 11:05 AM Karla Gravis 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I thought the premise of locating 100% of rezoned units around the
 train station and giving away our town meeting negotiating power was to 
 "support
 and maintain our small commercial center" and "promote decarbonization
 and climate change adaptation by rezoning near transportation and
 amenities.

 But we are now being told that the plans for the mall will reduce
 commercial space and that we may not even be able to keep Donelan's. So why
 do we insist on putting all rezoned housing into the same spot where there
 are likely to be fewer amenities in the future? The train schedule is
 limited and unreliable enough that it is naive to think people will take
 the train to do a grocery run. It sounds like a situation where the cure is
 worse than the disease.

 *It is not true that much of the study was conducted at noon on a
 public holiday.* The consulting team conducted field studies across 8
 days, none of which were public holidays. (April 12, 13, 16, 17, 24, 27,
 and 29, and May 8, 2013. Page 25 of the study).


 https://www.lincolntown.org/DocumentCenter/View/65765/Lincoln-Station-Planning-Study-3-27-2014bwfinal




 On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 11:02 AM melinda bruno-smith <
 melindabr...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> I too thought the town was interested in developing or at least
> maintaining its commercial center.
> Sent from my iPhone
> Melinda Bruno-Smith
>
> On Nov 12, 2023, at 10:44 AM, Margaret Olson 
> wrote:
> 
> We have no guarantees that the RLF will maintain Donelan's either. If
> Donelan's is not sufficiently profitable they will leave, and the RLF may
> or may not be willing and able to set their rent at a level that keeps 
> them
> profitable.
>
> A note on the 2014 study: much of the research on the impact of the
> train was conducted at noon on a public holiday.
>
> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 10:07 AM Karla Gravis 
> wrote:
>
>> I want to emphasize that the Mall is currently a profitable
>> concern.The RLF disclosed a rental profit of $164,571 in 2022. Details
>> here
>> .
>> However, if we rezone it by right, Civico would get to decide what
>> mix of commercial and residential to build. As a private enterprise, they
>> will choose to build whatever leads to the highest profits, which we know
>> is residential. Ms. Barnes mentioned that commercial space will be
>> reduced during the forum on Wednesday. We have no guarantees that
>> Civico would maintain Donelan's or any of the existing commercial space. 
>> This
>> outcome would be at odds with our goal of supporting our commercial 
>> center
>> and reducing the town's carbon footprint. This is one of the reasons why 
>> it
>> is so important that the Mall redevelopment goes through Town Meeting.
>>
>> It is also important to puncture the myth that building units at
>> Lincoln Station would do much to boost the commercial prospects of the 
>> area:
>>
>>- The Planning Board released a Lincoln Station Planning Study in
>>2014. The study concluded that each 100 units added would only support
>>2,500 sq ft of space. For reference, Donelan's footprint is 20,387 sq 
>> ft.
>>Study  here
>>
>> 
>>- 2,500 sq ft of commercial space per 100 units is probably a
>>very optimistic 

Re: [LincolnTalk] Housing Choice Act and Exclusionary Zoning Report-the HAC will make us even more exclusive.

[gail o'keefe]

Why on earth would we want people from other towns flocking to Lincoln for
their groceries?? The beauty of Lincoln's current commercial area is it
provides just what the town needs, and not more. This is an environmentally
sound model, if not one for thriving capitalism. Lincoln's affordable
housing can be expanded without giving up control to developers.

Many people move to Lincoln specifically to avoid the traffic and
commercial pressures that are evident in neighboring towns, once
beautifully semi-rural, now overbuilt with strip malls. Lincoln has been
preserved over the decades by careful planning and zoning.

 As an example of developer-friendly zoning, Lexington has long had
commercial zoning in the center, yet there are empty storefronts and over a
dozen random banks. There are only two restaurants that have lasted over
the years, dozens have shuttered. Zoning for the benefit of developers
doesn't guarantee businesses will come, or stay. Belmont is also struggling
with empty storefronts, it is happening across the region. Developers come
and go, but residents are left with the developers' decisions, rarely based
on the long term goals of the town. This is not a good model for Lincoln.
If Lincoln cedes control to developers, it is in perpetuity, it can't be
reversed.

Many in town hope that the working group of the HCA ruling will slow the
process, take the necessary time to address the concerns of the
townspeople, and allow alternative choices on the ballot.

Gail O'Keefe



On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 8:14 AM DJCP  wrote:

> The best way to make sure commercial stays commercial is to make the
> businesses viable and the best way to do that is to make sure there are
> people shopping there. Sorry but people from other towns are not flocking
> to Lincoln to buy $10 pints of strawberries from Donelans. And I've only
> been here 5 years and have noticed the string of restaurants that have
> tried to fill the ONE space. Whether we make any changes there's no
> guarantee these businesses will stick around. That's capitalism folks. But
> we can help by AT LEAST zoning for more housing in the area.
>
> Diana
> Giles Rd
>
> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023, 8:08 AM Peter Buchthal  wrote:
>
>> Along similar lines, how can the town ensure commercial space stays
>> commercial as the new owners could easily decide to raise very high or not
>> renew any commercial lease in order to build more luxury residential units
>> by right as long as the project has unused housing units within the zoning
>> allotment.
>>
>>
>> Peter Buchthal
>> Weston Rd
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 11, 2023 at 12:27 PM David Cuetos 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> How can the RLF guarantee that any particular commercial space will
>>> remain once they sell the land to Civico? Are they planning to include
>>> a requirement for a supermarket in the deed? Anything else would just be a
>>> "recommendation".
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 10, 2023 at 6:09 PM Margo Fisher-Martin <
>>> margo.fisher.mar...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 Hi All,

 We know that a zoning change does not “dictate” that anything be built
 or changed, but we also know that major changes WILL happen in Lincoln,
 should this pass. Do any of you remember many years ago when zoning changes
 were made that impacted any changes an owner could make (as much as a bay
 window) without ZBA approval on pre-existing non-conforming lots? Some
 people who are pushing for the re-zoning here are the same people that
 tried to instill the fear of “mansionisation” should we allow any changes
 to homes on less than 2 acre lots. At town meeting, they showed pictures of
 dense mid-rise housing from other towns to scare people into taking away
 the rights of the pre-existing (grandfathered) non-conforming lot owners.
 Now some of these same people are advocating for providing similar dense
 mid-rise housing that they were adamantly opposed to. What happened to the
 “stewards of the land?”

 Sincerely,

 Margo Martin






 On Fri, Nov 10, 2023 at 5:27 PM Margaret Olson 
 wrote:

> Michelle Barnes from the RLF can confirm, but I believe Donelan's will
 remain after the mall redevelopment.

 A reminder: zoning affects what the property owner has a right to do
 with their property. It does not dictate that anything be built or changed.

 On Fri, Nov 10, 2023 at 4:38 PM Terri via Lincoln <
 lincoln@lincolntalk.org> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> If I am reading  the rezoning plans correctly the  Reducition in
> retail includes eliminating Donelans and the  Bank.
>
 Is this correct?
>>
>> Theresa K
>>
>>
>> On Friday, November 10, 2023 at 11:25:26 AM EST, Sara Mattes <
>> samat...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Is the alternative for the nation area to fill it with dense housing,
>> while we are told there will be reduction in retail?
>> And, that 

Re: [LincolnTalk] Housing Choice Act and Exclusionary Zoning Report-the HAC will make us even more exclusive.

[Bijoy Misra]

Everyone is sympathetic to housing and new people.  The issue is
where to build.  The overwhelming voice is to exclude the Lincoln
station area until a full analysis is done.  Congestion, transport
and environment are the issues.  Hence the appeal is for distributed
housing.  To sell the Lincoln station area for residential development
without analysis would be suicidal for the town.  I am speaking on behalf
of many who wish to live here and develop the town wholesome
retaining its character.
Best regards,
Bijoy Misra

On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 10:19 AM DJCP  wrote:

> First, I did not say I wanted people from other towns flocking here.  I
> said the opposite.
>
> Second, I would love to maintain the rural character of Lincoln, too, but
> the fact is we have a severe housing shortage not just in Massachusetts but
> across the country. Families who work full time, multiple jobs cannot
> afford apartments, much less condos or homes.  There are people looking to
> step into home ownership who can't because they are priced out.  The
> Massachusetts shelter system is full, not just from refugees and
> immigrants, but from people who cannot find housing, no matter how much
> assistance they have.  So, yes, even luxury condos would help.  (Though I
> see the town's commendable track record of negotiating a higher level of
> affordable housing and trust them to continue to do the same.)  But it is
> also true that Lincoln's exclusionary zoning - which has maintained the
> rural character we love - has contributed to the housing crisis.   Lastly,
> I would love more taxpayers to come to town because in the end I am also a
> capitalist and would like to see my taxes go down.  So I can buy berries
> for my kids with abandon.
>
> Diana
> Giles Rd
>
> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 9:45 AM gail o'keefe  wrote:
>
>> Why on earth would we want people from other towns flocking to Lincoln
>> for their groceries?? The beauty of Lincoln's current commercial area is it
>> provides just what the town needs, and not more. This is an environmentally
>> sound model, if not one for thriving capitalism. Lincoln's affordable
>> housing can be expanded without giving up control to developers.
>>
>> Many people move to Lincoln specifically to avoid the traffic and
>> commercial pressures that are evident in neighboring towns, once
>> beautifully semi-rural, now overbuilt with strip malls. Lincoln has been
>> preserved over the decades by careful planning and zoning.
>>
>>  As an example of developer-friendly zoning, Lexington has long had
>> commercial zoning in the center, yet there are empty storefronts and over a
>> dozen random banks. There are only two restaurants that have lasted over
>> the years, dozens have shuttered. Zoning for the benefit of developers
>> doesn't guarantee businesses will come, or stay. Belmont is also struggling
>> with empty storefronts, it is happening across the region. Developers come
>> and go, but residents are left with the developers' decisions, rarely based
>> on the long term goals of the town. This is not a good model for Lincoln.
>> If Lincoln cedes control to developers, it is in perpetuity, it can't be
>> reversed.
>>
>> Many in town hope that the working group of the HCA ruling will slow the
>> process, take the necessary time to address the concerns of the
>> townspeople, and allow alternative choices on the ballot.
>>
>> Gail O'Keefe
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 8:14 AM DJCP  wrote:
>>
>>> The best way to make sure commercial stays commercial is to make the
>>> businesses viable and the best way to do that is to make sure there are
>>> people shopping there. Sorry but people from other towns are not flocking
>>> to Lincoln to buy $10 pints of strawberries from Donelans. And I've only
>>> been here 5 years and have noticed the string of restaurants that have
>>> tried to fill the ONE space. Whether we make any changes there's no
>>> guarantee these businesses will stick around. That's capitalism folks. But
>>> we can help by AT LEAST zoning for more housing in the area.
>>>
>>> Diana
>>> Giles Rd
>>>
>>> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023, 8:08 AM Peter Buchthal 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Along similar lines, how can the town ensure commercial space stays
 commercial as the new owners could easily decide to raise very high or not
 renew any commercial lease in order to build more luxury residential units
 by right as long as the project has unused housing units within the zoning
 allotment.


 Peter Buchthal
 Weston Rd

 On Sat, Nov 11, 2023 at 12:27 PM David Cuetos 
 wrote:

> How can the RLF guarantee that any particular commercial space will
> remain once they sell the land to Civico? Are they planning to include
> a requirement for a supermarket in the deed? Anything else would just be a
> "recommendation".
>
> On Fri, Nov 10, 2023 at 6:09 PM Margo Fisher-Martin <
> margo.fisher.mar...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>>

Re: [LincolnTalk] Housing Choice Act and Exclusionary Zoning Report-the HAC will make us even more exclusive.

[Peter Buchthal]

We try to teach our children that "Actions speak louder than words."  Yet,
the words "support and maintain our small commercial center" sounds like a
good goal.
If only the actions of the Town really followed through on the goal.

Why is the town asking to spend 15 to 25 Million on a new Senior Center at
Hartwell instead of putting their aspirational 100+ or so daily visitors to
the Senior Center in the center of the Lincoln Commercial District. *I
believe the economic benefits to our small commercial retail businesses of
a 6000 square foot senior center and their 100+ daily visitors would exceed
10 to 20 times the economic benefits generated by the six new multifamily
units (1000 square foot per unit) using the same space in or near the mall.*

Where is our town master plan that combines the benefits of these two
projects? (hint: There are no cross project benefits)

*If we could only vote for more and different plans than C, D1, D2 and D3
for our HCA Compliance rezoning! Maybe plans that maintain the oversight to
the public through town meetings for the future development of Lincoln
Mall.*

*If we could only vote not just for the size of a new community center, but
a different location!*


Peter Buchthal
Weston Rd


On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 11:05 AM Karla Gravis  wrote:

> I thought the premise of locating 100% of rezoned units around the train
> station and giving away our town meeting negotiating power was to "support
> and maintain our small commercial center" and "promote decarbonization
> and climate change adaptation by rezoning near transportation and
> amenities.
>
> But we are now being told that the plans for the mall will reduce
> commercial space and that we may not even be able to keep Donelan's. So why
> do we insist on putting all rezoned housing into the same spot where there
> are likely to be fewer amenities in the future? The train schedule is
> limited and unreliable enough that it is naive to think people will take
> the train to do a grocery run. It sounds like a situation where the cure is
> worse than the disease.
>
> *It is not true that much of the study was conducted at noon on a public
> holiday.* The consulting team conducted field studies across 8 days, none
> of which were public holidays. (April 12, 13, 16, 17, 24, 27, and 29, and
> May 8, 2013. Page 25 of the study).
>
>
> https://www.lincolntown.org/DocumentCenter/View/65765/Lincoln-Station-Planning-Study-3-27-2014bwfinal
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 11:02 AM melinda bruno-smith <
> melindabr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I too thought the town was interested in developing or at least
>> maintaining its commercial center.
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> Melinda Bruno-Smith
>>
>> On Nov 12, 2023, at 10:44 AM, Margaret Olson 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> We have no guarantees that the RLF will maintain Donelan's either. If
>> Donelan's is not sufficiently profitable they will leave, and the RLF may
>> or may not be willing and able to set their rent at a level that keeps them
>> profitable.
>>
>> A note on the 2014 study: much of the research on the impact of the train
>> was conducted at noon on a public holiday.
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 10:07 AM Karla Gravis 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I want to emphasize that the Mall is currently a profitable concern.The
>>> RLF disclosed a rental profit of $164,571 in 2022. Details here
>>> .
>>> However, if we rezone it by right, Civico would get to decide what
>>> mix of commercial and residential to build. As a private enterprise, they
>>> will choose to build whatever leads to the highest profits, which we know
>>> is residential. Ms. Barnes mentioned that commercial space will be
>>> reduced during the forum on Wednesday. We have no guarantees that
>>> Civico would maintain Donelan's or any of the existing commercial space. 
>>> This
>>> outcome would be at odds with our goal of supporting our commercial center
>>> and reducing the town's carbon footprint. This is one of the reasons why it
>>> is so important that the Mall redevelopment goes through Town Meeting.
>>>
>>> It is also important to puncture the myth that building units at Lincoln
>>> Station would do much to boost the commercial prospects of the area:
>>>
>>>- The Planning Board released a Lincoln Station Planning Study in
>>>2014. The study concluded that each 100 units added would only support
>>>2,500 sq ft of space. For reference, Donelan's footprint is 20,387 sq ft.
>>>Study  here
>>>
>>> 
>>>- 2,500 sq ft of commercial space per 100 units is probably a very
>>>optimistic number. The Study assumed that the leakage (% of convenience
>>>buys by residents that happen outside of Lincoln Station) would come down
>>>from 80% to 50%. If we use the actual 80% leakage, those 100 units would
>>>only support 

Re: [LincolnTalk] Housing Choice Act and Exclusionary Zoning Report-the HAC will make us even more exclusive.

[ٍSarah Postlethwait]

It is Mandatory to have retail… however the representative for the Mall,
Michelle Barnes, clearly stated during Wednesday’s meeting that the
commercial component would be *smaller* than it is currently because the
RLF’s main goal is to “derisk” the mall. And it was explained that
residential properties are less risky than commercial properties.

And commercial, of course, also includes offices and other non retail
establishments.

Many people are under the impression that this rezoning of the mall will
lead to a vibrant development full of new business- but that clearly is not
the case.

If the point of having all of this housing around the mall is to encourage
people to walk to the amenities and not use a car, why are we reducing the
already very limited amount of retail businesses?


Sarah Postlethwait

On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 2:35 PM Margaret Olson 
wrote:

> The proposed zoning for the mall has a mandatory retail component.
>
> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 2:13 PM Sara Mattes  wrote:
>
>> So, are we now giving up retail at the mall?
>>
>> --
>> Sara Mattes
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Nov 12, 2023, at 2:08 PM, Rich Rosenbaum  wrote:
>>
>> Given the history of businesses leaving the mall, $165k seems to be a
>> thin margin for predicting future rental profitability.
>>
>> It might be noted that rental income is only part of the RLF financials.
>> Their overall net seems to be $212,000 for 2022 and -$251,431 (loss) for
>> the prior year. That doesn't paint a picture of financial stability to me.
>>
>> Rich
>> (not an accountant, either)
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 10:07 AM Karla Gravis 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I want to emphasize that the Mall is currently a profitable concern.The
>>> RLF disclosed a rental profit of $164,571 in 2022. Details here
>>> .
>>> However, if we rezone it by right, Civico would get to decide what
>>> mix of commercial and residential to build. As a private enterprise, they
>>> will choose to build whatever leads to the highest profits, which we know
>>> is residential. Ms. Barnes mentioned that commercial space will be
>>> reduced during the forum on Wednesday. We have no guarantees that
>>> Civico would maintain Donelan's or any of the existing commercial space. 
>>> This
>>> outcome would be at odds with our goal of supporting our commercial center
>>> and reducing the town's carbon footprint. This is one of the reasons why it
>>> is so important that the Mall redevelopment goes through Town Meeting.
>>>
>>> It is also important to puncture the myth that building units at Lincoln
>>> Station would do much to boost the commercial prospects of the area:
>>>
>>>- The Planning Board released a Lincoln Station Planning Study in
>>>2014. The study concluded that each 100 units added would only support
>>>2,500 sq ft of space. For reference, Donelan's footprint is 20,387 sq ft.
>>>Study  here
>>>
>>> 
>>>- 2,500 sq ft of commercial space per 100 units is probably a very
>>>optimistic number. The Study assumed that the leakage (% of convenience
>>>buys by residents that happen outside of Lincoln Station) would come down
>>>from 80% to 50%. If we use the actual 80% leakage, those 100 units would
>>>only support 1,000 sq ft of space.
>>>- In all likelihood the leakage is actually higher than 80% today
>>>given the increased penetration of online sales in the nine years 
>>> elapsed.
>>>
>>> --
>> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
>> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
>> Browse the archives at
>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/.
>> Change your subscription settings at
>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
>>
>>
>> --
>> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
>> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
>> Browse the archives at
>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/.
>> Change your subscription settings at
>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
>>
>> --
> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
> Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/
> .
> Change your subscription settings at
> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
>
>
-- 
The LincolnTalk mailing list.
To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/.
Change your subscription settings at 
https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.

Re: [LincolnTalk] Housing Choice Act and Exclusionary Zoning Report-the HAC will make us even more exclusive.

[Margaret Olson]

The proposed zoning for the mall has a mandatory retail component.

On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 2:13 PM Sara Mattes  wrote:

> So, are we now giving up retail at the mall?
>
> --
> Sara Mattes
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 12, 2023, at 2:08 PM, Rich Rosenbaum  wrote:
>
> Given the history of businesses leaving the mall, $165k seems to be a thin
> margin for predicting future rental profitability.
>
> It might be noted that rental income is only part of the RLF financials.
> Their overall net seems to be $212,000 for 2022 and -$251,431 (loss) for
> the prior year. That doesn't paint a picture of financial stability to me.
>
> Rich
> (not an accountant, either)
>
> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 10:07 AM Karla Gravis 
> wrote:
>
>> I want to emphasize that the Mall is currently a profitable concern.The
>> RLF disclosed a rental profit of $164,571 in 2022. Details here
>> .
>> However, if we rezone it by right, Civico would get to decide what
>> mix of commercial and residential to build. As a private enterprise, they
>> will choose to build whatever leads to the highest profits, which we know
>> is residential. Ms. Barnes mentioned that commercial space will be
>> reduced during the forum on Wednesday. We have no guarantees that Civico
>> would maintain Donelan's or any of the existing commercial space. This
>> outcome would be at odds with our goal of supporting our commercial center
>> and reducing the town's carbon footprint. This is one of the reasons why it
>> is so important that the Mall redevelopment goes through Town Meeting.
>>
>> It is also important to puncture the myth that building units at Lincoln
>> Station would do much to boost the commercial prospects of the area:
>>
>>- The Planning Board released a Lincoln Station Planning Study in
>>2014. The study concluded that each 100 units added would only support
>>2,500 sq ft of space. For reference, Donelan's footprint is 20,387 sq ft.
>>Study  here
>>
>> 
>>- 2,500 sq ft of commercial space per 100 units is probably a very
>>optimistic number. The Study assumed that the leakage (% of convenience
>>buys by residents that happen outside of Lincoln Station) would come down
>>from 80% to 50%. If we use the actual 80% leakage, those 100 units would
>>only support 1,000 sq ft of space.
>>- In all likelihood the leakage is actually higher than 80% today
>>given the increased penetration of online sales in the nine years elapsed.
>>
>> --
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> .
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>
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Re: [LincolnTalk] Housing Choice Act and Exclusionary Zoning Report-the HAC will make us even more exclusive.

[John Mendelson]

"Commercial" does not just mean "retail."  I am encouraging the RLF to add
more office space to the mix. While Boston's commercial real estate market
is struggling, this is nit the case in the suburbs.  See:
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2022/08/28/business/wellesley-suburbs-office-market-is-thriving/?p1=Article_Inline_Related_Link

Part of smart growth is finding ways to work closer to where we live.  If
you have the opportunity to try it, I think you will find trading a long
commute for more time at home or at the office, can have a very healthy
outcome.

Remember that we all have a role to play here.  In order for the HCA to
achieve its goals, we have to engage as a state, as a town, and as
individuals.

John

On Sun, Nov 12, 2023, 2:18 PM Scott Clary  wrote:

> Hello Louis,
>
> Yes, that is the question- will there be "ANY" commercial base left???
>
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> Scott Clary
> 617-968-5769
>
> Sent from a mobile device - please excuse typos and errors
>
> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023, 1:45 PM Louis Zipes  wrote:
>
>>
>>- The Planning Board released a Lincoln Station Planning Study in
>>2014. The study concluded that each 100 units added would only support
>>2,500 sq ft of space. For reference, Donelan's footprint is 20,387 sq ft.
>>Study  here
>>
>> 
>>- 2,500 sq ft of commercial space per 100 units is probably a very
>>optimistic number. The Study assumed that the leakage (% of convenience
>>buys by residents that happen outside of Lincoln Station) would come down
>>from 80% to 50%. If we use the actual 80% leakage, those 100 units would
>>only support 1,000 sq ft of space.
>>
>>
>> Another reason to go with Option C then to have the most units available
>> to support any retail! 
>>
>> On Sunday, November 12, 2023, Karla Gravis  wrote:
>>
>>> I thought the premise of locating 100% of rezoned units around the train
>>> station and giving away our town meeting negotiating power was to "support
>>> and maintain our small commercial center" and "promote decarbonization
>>> and climate change adaptation by rezoning near transportation and
>>> amenities.
>>>
>>> But we are now being told that the plans for the mall will reduce
>>> commercial space and that we may not even be able to keep Donelan's. So why
>>> do we insist on putting all rezoned housing into the same spot where there
>>> are likely to be fewer amenities in the future? The train schedule is
>>> limited and unreliable enough that it is naive to think people will take
>>> the train to do a grocery run. It sounds like a situation where the cure is
>>> worse than the disease.
>>>
>>> *It is not true that much of the study was conducted at noon on a public
>>> holiday.* The consulting team conducted field studies across 8 days,
>>> none of which were public holidays. (April 12, 13, 16, 17, 24, 27, and 29,
>>> and May 8, 2013. Page 25 of the study).
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.lincolntown.org/DocumentCenter/View/65765/Lincoln-Station-Planning-Study-3-27-2014bwfinal
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 11:02 AM melinda bruno-smith <
>>> melindabr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 I too thought the town was interested in developing or at least
 maintaining its commercial center.
 Sent from my iPhone
 Melinda Bruno-Smith

 On Nov 12, 2023, at 10:44 AM, Margaret Olson 
 wrote:
 
 We have no guarantees that the RLF will maintain Donelan's either. If
 Donelan's is not sufficiently profitable they will leave, and the RLF may
 or may not be willing and able to set their rent at a level that keeps them
 profitable.

 A note on the 2014 study: much of the research on the impact of the
 train was conducted at noon on a public holiday.

 On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 10:07 AM Karla Gravis 
 wrote:

> I want to emphasize that the Mall is currently a profitable
> concern.The RLF disclosed a rental profit of $164,571 in 2022. Details
> here
> .
> However, if we rezone it by right, Civico would get to decide what
> mix of commercial and residential to build. As a private enterprise, they
> will choose to build whatever leads to the highest profits, which we know
> is residential. Ms. Barnes mentioned that commercial space will be
> reduced during the forum on Wednesday. We have no guarantees that
> Civico would maintain Donelan's or any of the existing commercial space. 
> This
> outcome would be at odds with our goal of supporting our commercial center
> and reducing the town's carbon footprint. This is one of the reasons why 
> it
> is so important that the Mall redevelopment goes through Town Meeting.
>
> It is also important to puncture the myth that building units at
> Lincoln Station would 

Re: [LincolnTalk] Housing Choice Act and Exclusionary Zoning Report-the HAC will make us even more exclusive.

[Scott Clary]

Hello Louis,

Yes, that is the question- will there be "ANY" commercial base left???


Kind Regards,

Scott Clary
617-968-5769

Sent from a mobile device - please excuse typos and errors

On Sun, Nov 12, 2023, 1:45 PM Louis Zipes  wrote:

>
>- The Planning Board released a Lincoln Station Planning Study in
>2014. The study concluded that each 100 units added would only support
>2,500 sq ft of space. For reference, Donelan's footprint is 20,387 sq ft.
>Study  here
>
> 
>- 2,500 sq ft of commercial space per 100 units is probably a very
>optimistic number. The Study assumed that the leakage (% of convenience
>buys by residents that happen outside of Lincoln Station) would come down
>from 80% to 50%. If we use the actual 80% leakage, those 100 units would
>only support 1,000 sq ft of space.
>
>
> Another reason to go with Option C then to have the most units available
> to support any retail! 
>
> On Sunday, November 12, 2023, Karla Gravis  wrote:
>
>> I thought the premise of locating 100% of rezoned units around the train
>> station and giving away our town meeting negotiating power was to "support
>> and maintain our small commercial center" and "promote decarbonization
>> and climate change adaptation by rezoning near transportation and
>> amenities.
>>
>> But we are now being told that the plans for the mall will reduce
>> commercial space and that we may not even be able to keep Donelan's. So why
>> do we insist on putting all rezoned housing into the same spot where there
>> are likely to be fewer amenities in the future? The train schedule is
>> limited and unreliable enough that it is naive to think people will take
>> the train to do a grocery run. It sounds like a situation where the cure is
>> worse than the disease.
>>
>> *It is not true that much of the study was conducted at noon on a public
>> holiday.* The consulting team conducted field studies across 8 days,
>> none of which were public holidays. (April 12, 13, 16, 17, 24, 27, and 29,
>> and May 8, 2013. Page 25 of the study).
>>
>>
>> https://www.lincolntown.org/DocumentCenter/View/65765/Lincoln-Station-Planning-Study-3-27-2014bwfinal
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 11:02 AM melinda bruno-smith <
>> melindabr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I too thought the town was interested in developing or at least
>>> maintaining its commercial center.
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> Melinda Bruno-Smith
>>>
>>> On Nov 12, 2023, at 10:44 AM, Margaret Olson 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> We have no guarantees that the RLF will maintain Donelan's either. If
>>> Donelan's is not sufficiently profitable they will leave, and the RLF may
>>> or may not be willing and able to set their rent at a level that keeps them
>>> profitable.
>>>
>>> A note on the 2014 study: much of the research on the impact of the
>>> train was conducted at noon on a public holiday.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 10:07 AM Karla Gravis 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I want to emphasize that the Mall is currently a profitable
 concern.The RLF disclosed a rental profit of $164,571 in 2022. Details
 here
 .
 However, if we rezone it by right, Civico would get to decide what
 mix of commercial and residential to build. As a private enterprise, they
 will choose to build whatever leads to the highest profits, which we know
 is residential. Ms. Barnes mentioned that commercial space will be
 reduced during the forum on Wednesday. We have no guarantees that
 Civico would maintain Donelan's or any of the existing commercial space. 
 This
 outcome would be at odds with our goal of supporting our commercial center
 and reducing the town's carbon footprint. This is one of the reasons why it
 is so important that the Mall redevelopment goes through Town Meeting.

 It is also important to puncture the myth that building units at
 Lincoln Station would do much to boost the commercial prospects of the 
 area:

- The Planning Board released a Lincoln Station Planning Study in
2014. The study concluded that each 100 units added would only support
2,500 sq ft of space. For reference, Donelan's footprint is 20,387 sq 
 ft.
Study  here

 
- 2,500 sq ft of commercial space per 100 units is probably a very
optimistic number. The Study assumed that the leakage (% of convenience
buys by residents that happen outside of Lincoln Station) would come 
 down
from 80% to 50%. If we use the actual 80% leakage, those 100 units would
only support 1,000 sq ft of space.
- In all likelihood the leakage is actually higher than 80% 

Re: [LincolnTalk] Housing Choice Act and Exclusionary Zoning Report-the HAC will make us even more exclusive.

[Sara Mattes]

So, are we now giving up retail at the mall?

--
Sara Mattes




> On Nov 12, 2023, at 2:08 PM, Rich Rosenbaum  wrote:
> 
> Given the history of businesses leaving the mall, $165k seems to be a thin 
> margin for predicting future rental profitability.
> 
> It might be noted that rental income is only part of the RLF financials. 
> Their overall net seems to be $212,000 for 2022 and -$251,431 (loss) for the 
> prior year. That doesn't paint a picture of financial stability to me.
> 
> Rich
> (not an accountant, either)
> 
> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 10:07 AM Karla Gravis  > wrote:
>> I want to emphasize that the Mall is currently a profitable concern.The RLF 
>> disclosed a rental profit of $164,571 in 2022. Details here 
>> .
>>  However, if we rezone it by right, Civico would get to decide what mix of 
>> commercial and residential to build. As a private enterprise, they will 
>> choose to build whatever leads to the highest profits, which we know is 
>> residential. Ms. Barnes mentioned that commercial space will be reduced 
>> during the forum on Wednesday. We have no guarantees that Civico would 
>> maintain Donelan's or any of the existing commercial space. This outcome 
>> would be at odds with our goal of supporting our commercial center and 
>> reducing the town's carbon footprint. This is one of the reasons why it is 
>> so important that the Mall redevelopment goes through Town Meeting.
>> 
>> It is also important to puncture the myth that building units at Lincoln 
>> Station would do much to boost the commercial prospects of the area:
>> The Planning Board released a Lincoln Station Planning Study in 2014. The 
>> study concluded that each 100 units added would only support 2,500 sq ft of 
>> space. For reference, Donelan's footprint is 20,387 sq ft. Study  here 
>> 
>> 2,500 sq ft of commercial space per 100 units is probably a very optimistic 
>> number. The Study assumed that the leakage (% of convenience buys by 
>> residents that happen outside of Lincoln Station) would come down from 80% 
>> to 50%. If we use the actual 80% leakage, those 100 units would only support 
>> 1,000 sq ft of space.
>> In all likelihood the leakage is actually higher than 80% today given the 
>> increased penetration of online sales in the nine years elapsed.
> -- 
> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
> Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/.
> Change your subscription settings at 
> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
> 

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Re: [LincolnTalk] Housing Choice Act and Exclusionary Zoning Report-the HAC will make us even more exclusive.

[Rich Rosenbaum]

Given the history of businesses leaving the mall, $165k seems to be a thin
margin for predicting future rental profitability.

It might be noted that rental income is only part of the RLF financials.
Their overall net seems to be $212,000 for 2022 and -$251,431 (loss) for
the prior year. That doesn't paint a picture of financial stability to me.

Rich
(not an accountant, either)

On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 10:07 AM Karla Gravis  wrote:

> I want to emphasize that the Mall is currently a profitable concern.The
> RLF disclosed a rental profit of $164,571 in 2022. Details here
> .
> However, if we rezone it by right, Civico would get to decide what mix of
> commercial and residential to build. As a private enterprise, they will
> choose to build whatever leads to the highest profits, which we know is
> residential. Ms. Barnes mentioned that commercial space will be reduced
> during the forum on Wednesday. We have no guarantees that Civico would
> maintain Donelan's or any of the existing commercial space. This outcome
> would be at odds with our goal of supporting our commercial center and
> reducing the town's carbon footprint. This is one of the reasons why it is
> so important that the Mall redevelopment goes through Town Meeting.
>
> It is also important to puncture the myth that building units at Lincoln
> Station would do much to boost the commercial prospects of the area:
>
>- The Planning Board released a Lincoln Station Planning Study in
>2014. The study concluded that each 100 units added would only support
>2,500 sq ft of space. For reference, Donelan's footprint is 20,387 sq ft.
>Study  here
>
> 
>- 2,500 sq ft of commercial space per 100 units is probably a very
>optimistic number. The Study assumed that the leakage (% of convenience
>buys by residents that happen outside of Lincoln Station) would come down
>from 80% to 50%. If we use the actual 80% leakage, those 100 units would
>only support 1,000 sq ft of space.
>- In all likelihood the leakage is actually higher than 80% today
>given the increased penetration of online sales in the nine years elapsed.
>
>
-- 
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Re: [LincolnTalk] Housing Choice Act and Exclusionary Zoning Report-the HAC will make us even more exclusive.

[Louis Zipes]

   - The Planning Board released a Lincoln Station Planning Study in 2014.
   The study concluded that each 100 units added would only support 2,500 sq
   ft of space. For reference, Donelan's footprint is 20,387 sq ft. Study
   here
   

   - 2,500 sq ft of commercial space per 100 units is probably a very
   optimistic number. The Study assumed that the leakage (% of convenience
   buys by residents that happen outside of Lincoln Station) would come down
   from 80% to 50%. If we use the actual 80% leakage, those 100 units would
   only support 1,000 sq ft of space.


Another reason to go with Option C then to have the most units available to
support any retail! 

On Sunday, November 12, 2023, Karla Gravis  wrote:

> I thought the premise of locating 100% of rezoned units around the train
> station and giving away our town meeting negotiating power was to "support
> and maintain our small commercial center" and "promote decarbonization
> and climate change adaptation by rezoning near transportation and
> amenities.
>
> But we are now being told that the plans for the mall will reduce
> commercial space and that we may not even be able to keep Donelan's. So why
> do we insist on putting all rezoned housing into the same spot where there
> are likely to be fewer amenities in the future? The train schedule is
> limited and unreliable enough that it is naive to think people will take
> the train to do a grocery run. It sounds like a situation where the cure is
> worse than the disease.
>
> *It is not true that much of the study was conducted at noon on a public
> holiday.* The consulting team conducted field studies across 8 days, none
> of which were public holidays. (April 12, 13, 16, 17, 24, 27, and 29, and
> May 8, 2013. Page 25 of the study).
>
> https://www.lincolntown.org/DocumentCenter/View/65765/
> Lincoln-Station-Planning-Study-3-27-2014bwfinal
>
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 11:02 AM melinda bruno-smith <
> melindabr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I too thought the town was interested in developing or at least
>> maintaining its commercial center.
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> Melinda Bruno-Smith
>>
>> On Nov 12, 2023, at 10:44 AM, Margaret Olson 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> We have no guarantees that the RLF will maintain Donelan's either. If
>> Donelan's is not sufficiently profitable they will leave, and the RLF may
>> or may not be willing and able to set their rent at a level that keeps them
>> profitable.
>>
>> A note on the 2014 study: much of the research on the impact of the train
>> was conducted at noon on a public holiday.
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 10:07 AM Karla Gravis 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I want to emphasize that the Mall is currently a profitable concern.The
>>> RLF disclosed a rental profit of $164,571 in 2022. Details here
>>> .
>>> However, if we rezone it by right, Civico would get to decide what
>>> mix of commercial and residential to build. As a private enterprise, they
>>> will choose to build whatever leads to the highest profits, which we know
>>> is residential. Ms. Barnes mentioned that commercial space will be
>>> reduced during the forum on Wednesday. We have no guarantees that
>>> Civico would maintain Donelan's or any of the existing commercial space. 
>>> This
>>> outcome would be at odds with our goal of supporting our commercial center
>>> and reducing the town's carbon footprint. This is one of the reasons why it
>>> is so important that the Mall redevelopment goes through Town Meeting.
>>>
>>> It is also important to puncture the myth that building units at Lincoln
>>> Station would do much to boost the commercial prospects of the area:
>>>
>>>- The Planning Board released a Lincoln Station Planning Study in
>>>2014. The study concluded that each 100 units added would only support
>>>2,500 sq ft of space. For reference, Donelan's footprint is 20,387 sq ft.
>>>Study  here
>>>
>>> 
>>>- 2,500 sq ft of commercial space per 100 units is probably a very
>>>optimistic number. The Study assumed that the leakage (% of convenience
>>>buys by residents that happen outside of Lincoln Station) would come down
>>>from 80% to 50%. If we use the actual 80% leakage, those 100 units would
>>>only support 1,000 sq ft of space.
>>>- In all likelihood the leakage is actually higher than 80% today
>>>given the increased penetration of online sales in the nine years 
>>> elapsed.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: DJCP 
 Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 08:14
 Subject: Re: [LincolnTalk] Housing Choice Act and Exclusionary Zoning
 Report-the HAC will make us even more exclusive.
 To: Listserv Listserv 


 The best way to make sure commercial 

Re: [LincolnTalk] Housing Choice Act and Exclusionary Zoning Report-the HAC will make us even more exclusive.

[Rich Rosenbaum]

To me it seems that there are a number of methodological limitations to the
survey. It is hard to tell from the report but it implies that somewhat
less that 70 Lincoln residents were surveyed. Less than 10 a day does not
seem representative.
It was also noted that it partially overlapped a school vacation week and
the survey was potentially biased by an unusually large number of students
due to the schools closing early on one day.

I could not find the time of day of the surveys mentioned in the report. If
only 10 people were surveyed on a given day that could greatly affect the
results.




On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 1:29 PM Scott Clary  wrote:

> Hello Good Lincoln People,
>
> I just read the majority of the 2014 study on the commercial feasibility
> of Lincoln station/mall area.
>
> It looks thorough and well done to my layman eyes - 8 days and 82 surveyed
> is a decent sample size. I learned a lot by reading it. The main premise
> that I took out of it is that town leadership and the planning board wanted
> to improve and expand our commercial base which they seem to have done a
> 180 on since.
>
> Most often, highest, best and most profitable use of land is residential.
> Civico is primarily a residential developer. If the mall is conveyed to
> them and they are in control without town meeting process... I don't need
> to say anymore.
>
> I fail to see which public holiday occupied the majority of the survey. If
> the statement referring to such is not accurate, then it is misleading as
> an effect on the results.
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> Scott Clary
> 617-968-5769
> Oak Knoll
>
> Sent from a mobile device - please excuse typos and brevity
>
>
-- 
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Re: [LincolnTalk] Housing Choice Act and Exclusionary Zoning Report-the HAC will make us even more exclusive.

[Scott Clary]

Hello Good Lincoln People,

I just read the majority of the 2014 study on the commercial feasibility of
Lincoln station/mall area.

It looks thorough and well done to my layman eyes - 8 days and 82 surveyed
is a decent sample size. I learned a lot by reading it. The main premise
that I took out of it is that town leadership and the planning board wanted
to improve and expand our commercial base which they seem to have done a
180 on since.

Most often, highest, best and most profitable use of land is residential.
Civico is primarily a residential developer. If the mall is conveyed to
them and they are in control without town meeting process... I don't need
to say anymore.

I fail to see which public holiday occupied the majority of the survey. If
the statement referring to such is not accurate, then it is misleading as
an effect on the results.

Kind Regards,

Scott Clary
617-968-5769
Oak Knoll

Sent from a mobile device - please excuse typos and brevity

On Sun, Nov 12, 2023, 10:44 AM Margaret Olson  wrote:

> We have no guarantees that the RLF will maintain Donelan's either. If
> Donelan's is not sufficiently profitable they will leave, and the RLF may
> or may not be willing and able to set their rent at a level that keeps them
> profitable.
>
> A note on the 2014 study: much of the research on the impact of the train
> was conducted at noon on a public holiday.
>
> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 10:07 AM Karla Gravis 
> wrote:
>
>> I want to emphasize that the Mall is currently a profitable concern.The
>> RLF disclosed a rental profit of $164,571 in 2022. Details here
>> .
>> However, if we rezone it by right, Civico would get to decide what
>> mix of commercial and residential to build. As a private enterprise, they
>> will choose to build whatever leads to the highest profits, which we know
>> is residential. Ms. Barnes mentioned that commercial space will be
>> reduced during the forum on Wednesday. We have no guarantees that Civico
>> would maintain Donelan's or any of the existing commercial space. This
>> outcome would be at odds with our goal of supporting our commercial center
>> and reducing the town's carbon footprint. This is one of the reasons why it
>> is so important that the Mall redevelopment goes through Town Meeting.
>>
>> It is also important to puncture the myth that building units at Lincoln
>> Station would do much to boost the commercial prospects of the area:
>>
>>- The Planning Board released a Lincoln Station Planning Study in
>>2014. The study concluded that each 100 units added would only support
>>2,500 sq ft of space. For reference, Donelan's footprint is 20,387 sq ft.
>>Study  here
>>
>> 
>>- 2,500 sq ft of commercial space per 100 units is probably a very
>>optimistic number. The Study assumed that the leakage (% of convenience
>>buys by residents that happen outside of Lincoln Station) would come down
>>from 80% to 50%. If we use the actual 80% leakage, those 100 units would
>>only support 1,000 sq ft of space.
>>- In all likelihood the leakage is actually higher than 80% today
>>given the increased penetration of online sales in the nine years elapsed.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: DJCP 
>>> Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 08:14
>>> Subject: Re: [LincolnTalk] Housing Choice Act and Exclusionary Zoning
>>> Report-the HAC will make us even more exclusive.
>>> To: Listserv Listserv 
>>>
>>>
>>> The best way to make sure commercial stays commercial is to make the
>>> businesses viable and the best way to do that is to make sure there are
>>> people shopping there. Sorry but people from other towns are not flocking
>>> to Lincoln to buy $10 pints of strawberries from Donelans. And I've only
>>> been here 5 years and have noticed the string of restaurants that have
>>> tried to fill the ONE space. Whether we make any changes there's no
>>> guarantee these businesses will stick around. That's capitalism folks. But
>>> we can help by AT LEAST zoning for more housing in the area.
>>>
>>> Diana
>>> Giles Rd
>>>
>>> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023, 8:08 AM Peter Buchthal 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Along similar lines, how can the town ensure commercial space stays
 commercial as the new owners could easily decide to raise very high or not
 renew any commercial lease in order to build more luxury residential units
 by right as long as the project has unused housing units within the zoning
 allotment.


 Peter Buchthal
 Weston Rd

 On Sat, Nov 11, 2023 at 12:27 PM David Cuetos 
 wrote:

> How can the RLF guarantee that any particular commercial space will
> remain once they sell the land to Civico? Are they planning to include
> a requirement for a supermarket in the deed? Anything else would just be a
> 

Re: [LincolnTalk] Housing Choice Act and Exclusionary Zoning Report-the HAC will make us even more exclusive.

[Scott Clary]

Thank goodness we have some really smart people paying attention. These are
all facts.

I'm a bit dismayed at the contradictions within one's own post on this
topic. I see the townspeople looking for more options to comply to HCA,
back most everything with fact.

Kind Regards,

Scott Clary
617-968-5769

Sent from a mobile device - please excuse typos and errors

On Sun, Nov 12, 2023, 11:05 AM Karla Gravis  wrote:

> I thought the premise of locating 100% of rezoned units around the train
> station and giving away our town meeting negotiating power was to "support
> and maintain our small commercial center" and "promote decarbonization
> and climate change adaptation by rezoning near transportation and
> amenities.
>
> But we are now being told that the plans for the mall will reduce
> commercial space and that we may not even be able to keep Donelan's. So why
> do we insist on putting all rezoned housing into the same spot where there
> are likely to be fewer amenities in the future? The train schedule is
> limited and unreliable enough that it is naive to think people will take
> the train to do a grocery run. It sounds like a situation where the cure is
> worse than the disease.
>
> *It is not true that much of the study was conducted at noon on a public
> holiday.* The consulting team conducted field studies across 8 days, none
> of which were public holidays. (April 12, 13, 16, 17, 24, 27, and 29, and
> May 8, 2013. Page 25 of the study).
>
>
> https://www.lincolntown.org/DocumentCenter/View/65765/Lincoln-Station-Planning-Study-3-27-2014bwfinal
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 11:02 AM melinda bruno-smith <
> melindabr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I too thought the town was interested in developing or at least
>> maintaining its commercial center.
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> Melinda Bruno-Smith
>>
>> On Nov 12, 2023, at 10:44 AM, Margaret Olson 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> We have no guarantees that the RLF will maintain Donelan's either. If
>> Donelan's is not sufficiently profitable they will leave, and the RLF may
>> or may not be willing and able to set their rent at a level that keeps them
>> profitable.
>>
>> A note on the 2014 study: much of the research on the impact of the train
>> was conducted at noon on a public holiday.
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 10:07 AM Karla Gravis 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I want to emphasize that the Mall is currently a profitable concern.The
>>> RLF disclosed a rental profit of $164,571 in 2022. Details here
>>> .
>>> However, if we rezone it by right, Civico would get to decide what
>>> mix of commercial and residential to build. As a private enterprise, they
>>> will choose to build whatever leads to the highest profits, which we know
>>> is residential. Ms. Barnes mentioned that commercial space will be
>>> reduced during the forum on Wednesday. We have no guarantees that
>>> Civico would maintain Donelan's or any of the existing commercial space. 
>>> This
>>> outcome would be at odds with our goal of supporting our commercial center
>>> and reducing the town's carbon footprint. This is one of the reasons why it
>>> is so important that the Mall redevelopment goes through Town Meeting.
>>>
>>> It is also important to puncture the myth that building units at Lincoln
>>> Station would do much to boost the commercial prospects of the area:
>>>
>>>- The Planning Board released a Lincoln Station Planning Study in
>>>2014. The study concluded that each 100 units added would only support
>>>2,500 sq ft of space. For reference, Donelan's footprint is 20,387 sq ft.
>>>Study  here
>>>
>>> 
>>>- 2,500 sq ft of commercial space per 100 units is probably a very
>>>optimistic number. The Study assumed that the leakage (% of convenience
>>>buys by residents that happen outside of Lincoln Station) would come down
>>>from 80% to 50%. If we use the actual 80% leakage, those 100 units would
>>>only support 1,000 sq ft of space.
>>>- In all likelihood the leakage is actually higher than 80% today
>>>given the increased penetration of online sales in the nine years 
>>> elapsed.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: DJCP 
 Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 08:14
 Subject: Re: [LincolnTalk] Housing Choice Act and Exclusionary Zoning
 Report-the HAC will make us even more exclusive.
 To: Listserv Listserv 


 The best way to make sure commercial stays commercial is to make the
 businesses viable and the best way to do that is to make sure there are
 people shopping there. Sorry but people from other towns are not flocking
 to Lincoln to buy $10 pints of strawberries from Donelans. And I've only
 been here 5 years and have noticed the string of restaurants that have
 tried to fill the ONE space. Whether we make any changes there's 

Re: [LincolnTalk] Housing Choice Act and Exclusionary Zoning Report-the HAC will make us even more exclusive.

[Margaret Olson]

I am saying that I personally did not think the right questions were asked
at the right time of day.

On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 11:19 AM ٍSarah Postlethwait 
wrote:

> Are you saying that the survey and report are not accurate?
>
> None of the days listed in the survey are a public holiday.
>
> April 12, 13, 16, 17, 24, 27, and 29, and May 8, 2013
>
> The only public holiday around that time is Patriots day, April 15, which
> was not a day listed.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 11:12 AM Margaret Olson 
> wrote:
>
>> In commenting on the survey I was referring only to the impact of the
>> train on retail. I was on the planning board at the time and asked the
>> consultant for details. I was not happy with the answers.
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 11:05 AM Karla Gravis 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I thought the premise of locating 100% of rezoned units around the train
>>> station and giving away our town meeting negotiating power was to "support
>>> and maintain our small commercial center" and "promote decarbonization
>>> and climate change adaptation by rezoning near transportation and
>>> amenities.
>>>
>>> But we are now being told that the plans for the mall will reduce
>>> commercial space and that we may not even be able to keep Donelan's. So why
>>> do we insist on putting all rezoned housing into the same spot where there
>>> are likely to be fewer amenities in the future? The train schedule is
>>> limited and unreliable enough that it is naive to think people will take
>>> the train to do a grocery run. It sounds like a situation where the cure is
>>> worse than the disease.
>>>
>>> *It is not true that much of the study was conducted at noon on a public
>>> holiday.* The consulting team conducted field studies across 8 days,
>>> none of which were public holidays. (April 12, 13, 16, 17, 24, 27, and 29,
>>> and May 8, 2013. Page 25 of the study).
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.lincolntown.org/DocumentCenter/View/65765/Lincoln-Station-Planning-Study-3-27-2014bwfinal
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 11:02 AM melinda bruno-smith <
>>> melindabr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 I too thought the town was interested in developing or at least
 maintaining its commercial center.
 Sent from my iPhone
 Melinda Bruno-Smith

 On Nov 12, 2023, at 10:44 AM, Margaret Olson 
 wrote:
 
 We have no guarantees that the RLF will maintain Donelan's either. If
 Donelan's is not sufficiently profitable they will leave, and the RLF may
 or may not be willing and able to set their rent at a level that keeps them
 profitable.

 A note on the 2014 study: much of the research on the impact of the
 train was conducted at noon on a public holiday.

 On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 10:07 AM Karla Gravis 
 wrote:

> I want to emphasize that the Mall is currently a profitable
> concern.The RLF disclosed a rental profit of $164,571 in 2022. Details
> here
> .
> However, if we rezone it by right, Civico would get to decide what
> mix of commercial and residential to build. As a private enterprise, they
> will choose to build whatever leads to the highest profits, which we know
> is residential. Ms. Barnes mentioned that commercial space will be
> reduced during the forum on Wednesday. We have no guarantees that
> Civico would maintain Donelan's or any of the existing commercial space. 
> This
> outcome would be at odds with our goal of supporting our commercial center
> and reducing the town's carbon footprint. This is one of the reasons why 
> it
> is so important that the Mall redevelopment goes through Town Meeting.
>
> It is also important to puncture the myth that building units at
> Lincoln Station would do much to boost the commercial prospects of the 
> area:
>
>- The Planning Board released a Lincoln Station Planning Study in
>2014. The study concluded that each 100 units added would only support
>2,500 sq ft of space. For reference, Donelan's footprint is 20,387 sq 
> ft.
>Study  here
>
> 
>- 2,500 sq ft of commercial space per 100 units is probably a very
>optimistic number. The Study assumed that the leakage (% of convenience
>buys by residents that happen outside of Lincoln Station) would come 
> down
>from 80% to 50%. If we use the actual 80% leakage, those 100 units 
> would
>only support 1,000 sq ft of space.
>- In all likelihood the leakage is actually higher than 80% today
>given the increased penetration of online sales in the nine years 
> elapsed.
>
>
>
>
>
> From: DJCP 
>> Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 08:14
>> Subject: Re: [LincolnTalk] 

Re: [LincolnTalk] Housing Choice Act and Exclusionary Zoning Report-the HAC will make us even more exclusive.

[ٍSarah Postlethwait]

Are you saying that the survey and report are not accurate?

None of the days listed in the survey are a public holiday.

April 12, 13, 16, 17, 24, 27, and 29, and May 8, 2013

The only public holiday around that time is Patriots day, April 15, which
was not a day listed.



On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 11:12 AM Margaret Olson 
wrote:

> In commenting on the survey I was referring only to the impact of the
> train on retail. I was on the planning board at the time and asked the
> consultant for details. I was not happy with the answers.
>
> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 11:05 AM Karla Gravis 
> wrote:
>
>> I thought the premise of locating 100% of rezoned units around the train
>> station and giving away our town meeting negotiating power was to "support
>> and maintain our small commercial center" and "promote decarbonization
>> and climate change adaptation by rezoning near transportation and
>> amenities.
>>
>> But we are now being told that the plans for the mall will reduce
>> commercial space and that we may not even be able to keep Donelan's. So why
>> do we insist on putting all rezoned housing into the same spot where there
>> are likely to be fewer amenities in the future? The train schedule is
>> limited and unreliable enough that it is naive to think people will take
>> the train to do a grocery run. It sounds like a situation where the cure is
>> worse than the disease.
>>
>> *It is not true that much of the study was conducted at noon on a public
>> holiday.* The consulting team conducted field studies across 8 days,
>> none of which were public holidays. (April 12, 13, 16, 17, 24, 27, and 29,
>> and May 8, 2013. Page 25 of the study).
>>
>>
>> https://www.lincolntown.org/DocumentCenter/View/65765/Lincoln-Station-Planning-Study-3-27-2014bwfinal
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 11:02 AM melinda bruno-smith <
>> melindabr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I too thought the town was interested in developing or at least
>>> maintaining its commercial center.
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> Melinda Bruno-Smith
>>>
>>> On Nov 12, 2023, at 10:44 AM, Margaret Olson 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> We have no guarantees that the RLF will maintain Donelan's either. If
>>> Donelan's is not sufficiently profitable they will leave, and the RLF may
>>> or may not be willing and able to set their rent at a level that keeps them
>>> profitable.
>>>
>>> A note on the 2014 study: much of the research on the impact of the
>>> train was conducted at noon on a public holiday.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 10:07 AM Karla Gravis 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I want to emphasize that the Mall is currently a profitable
 concern.The RLF disclosed a rental profit of $164,571 in 2022. Details
 here
 .
 However, if we rezone it by right, Civico would get to decide what
 mix of commercial and residential to build. As a private enterprise, they
 will choose to build whatever leads to the highest profits, which we know
 is residential. Ms. Barnes mentioned that commercial space will be
 reduced during the forum on Wednesday. We have no guarantees that
 Civico would maintain Donelan's or any of the existing commercial space. 
 This
 outcome would be at odds with our goal of supporting our commercial center
 and reducing the town's carbon footprint. This is one of the reasons why it
 is so important that the Mall redevelopment goes through Town Meeting.

 It is also important to puncture the myth that building units at
 Lincoln Station would do much to boost the commercial prospects of the 
 area:

- The Planning Board released a Lincoln Station Planning Study in
2014. The study concluded that each 100 units added would only support
2,500 sq ft of space. For reference, Donelan's footprint is 20,387 sq 
 ft.
Study  here

 
- 2,500 sq ft of commercial space per 100 units is probably a very
optimistic number. The Study assumed that the leakage (% of convenience
buys by residents that happen outside of Lincoln Station) would come 
 down
from 80% to 50%. If we use the actual 80% leakage, those 100 units would
only support 1,000 sq ft of space.
- In all likelihood the leakage is actually higher than 80% today
given the increased penetration of online sales in the nine years 
 elapsed.





 From: DJCP 
> Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 08:14
> Subject: Re: [LincolnTalk] Housing Choice Act and Exclusionary Zoning
> Report-the HAC will make us even more exclusive.
> To: Listserv Listserv 
>
>
> The best way to make sure commercial stays commercial is to make the
> businesses viable and the best way to do that is to make sure there are
> 

Re: [LincolnTalk] Housing Choice Act and Exclusionary Zoning Report-the HAC will make us even more exclusive.

[Margaret Olson]

In commenting on the survey I was referring only to the impact of the train
on retail. I was on the planning board at the time and asked the consultant
for details. I was not happy with the answers.

On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 11:05 AM Karla Gravis  wrote:

> I thought the premise of locating 100% of rezoned units around the train
> station and giving away our town meeting negotiating power was to "support
> and maintain our small commercial center" and "promote decarbonization
> and climate change adaptation by rezoning near transportation and
> amenities.
>
> But we are now being told that the plans for the mall will reduce
> commercial space and that we may not even be able to keep Donelan's. So why
> do we insist on putting all rezoned housing into the same spot where there
> are likely to be fewer amenities in the future? The train schedule is
> limited and unreliable enough that it is naive to think people will take
> the train to do a grocery run. It sounds like a situation where the cure is
> worse than the disease.
>
> *It is not true that much of the study was conducted at noon on a public
> holiday.* The consulting team conducted field studies across 8 days, none
> of which were public holidays. (April 12, 13, 16, 17, 24, 27, and 29, and
> May 8, 2013. Page 25 of the study).
>
>
> https://www.lincolntown.org/DocumentCenter/View/65765/Lincoln-Station-Planning-Study-3-27-2014bwfinal
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 11:02 AM melinda bruno-smith <
> melindabr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I too thought the town was interested in developing or at least
>> maintaining its commercial center.
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> Melinda Bruno-Smith
>>
>> On Nov 12, 2023, at 10:44 AM, Margaret Olson 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> We have no guarantees that the RLF will maintain Donelan's either. If
>> Donelan's is not sufficiently profitable they will leave, and the RLF may
>> or may not be willing and able to set their rent at a level that keeps them
>> profitable.
>>
>> A note on the 2014 study: much of the research on the impact of the train
>> was conducted at noon on a public holiday.
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 10:07 AM Karla Gravis 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I want to emphasize that the Mall is currently a profitable concern.The
>>> RLF disclosed a rental profit of $164,571 in 2022. Details here
>>> .
>>> However, if we rezone it by right, Civico would get to decide what
>>> mix of commercial and residential to build. As a private enterprise, they
>>> will choose to build whatever leads to the highest profits, which we know
>>> is residential. Ms. Barnes mentioned that commercial space will be
>>> reduced during the forum on Wednesday. We have no guarantees that
>>> Civico would maintain Donelan's or any of the existing commercial space. 
>>> This
>>> outcome would be at odds with our goal of supporting our commercial center
>>> and reducing the town's carbon footprint. This is one of the reasons why it
>>> is so important that the Mall redevelopment goes through Town Meeting.
>>>
>>> It is also important to puncture the myth that building units at Lincoln
>>> Station would do much to boost the commercial prospects of the area:
>>>
>>>- The Planning Board released a Lincoln Station Planning Study in
>>>2014. The study concluded that each 100 units added would only support
>>>2,500 sq ft of space. For reference, Donelan's footprint is 20,387 sq ft.
>>>Study  here
>>>
>>> 
>>>- 2,500 sq ft of commercial space per 100 units is probably a very
>>>optimistic number. The Study assumed that the leakage (% of convenience
>>>buys by residents that happen outside of Lincoln Station) would come down
>>>from 80% to 50%. If we use the actual 80% leakage, those 100 units would
>>>only support 1,000 sq ft of space.
>>>- In all likelihood the leakage is actually higher than 80% today
>>>given the increased penetration of online sales in the nine years 
>>> elapsed.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: DJCP 
 Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 08:14
 Subject: Re: [LincolnTalk] Housing Choice Act and Exclusionary Zoning
 Report-the HAC will make us even more exclusive.
 To: Listserv Listserv 


 The best way to make sure commercial stays commercial is to make the
 businesses viable and the best way to do that is to make sure there are
 people shopping there. Sorry but people from other towns are not flocking
 to Lincoln to buy $10 pints of strawberries from Donelans. And I've only
 been here 5 years and have noticed the string of restaurants that have
 tried to fill the ONE space. Whether we make any changes there's no
 guarantee these businesses will stick around. That's capitalism folks. But
 we can help by AT LEAST zoning for more housing in the area.

 Diana

Re: [LincolnTalk] Housing Choice Act and Exclusionary Zoning Report-the HAC will make us even more exclusive.

[Karla Gravis]

I thought the premise of locating 100% of rezoned units around the train
station and giving away our town meeting negotiating power was to "support
and maintain our small commercial center" and "promote decarbonization
and climate
change adaptation by rezoning near transportation and amenities.

But we are now being told that the plans for the mall will reduce
commercial space and that we may not even be able to keep Donelan's. So why
do we insist on putting all rezoned housing into the same spot where there
are likely to be fewer amenities in the future? The train schedule is
limited and unreliable enough that it is naive to think people will take
the train to do a grocery run. It sounds like a situation where the cure is
worse than the disease.

*It is not true that much of the study was conducted at noon on a public
holiday.* The consulting team conducted field studies across 8 days, none
of which were public holidays. (April 12, 13, 16, 17, 24, 27, and 29, and
May 8, 2013. Page 25 of the study).

https://www.lincolntown.org/DocumentCenter/View/65765/Lincoln-Station-Planning-Study-3-27-2014bwfinal




On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 11:02 AM melinda bruno-smith <
melindabr...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> I too thought the town was interested in developing or at least
> maintaining its commercial center.
> Sent from my iPhone
> Melinda Bruno-Smith
>
> On Nov 12, 2023, at 10:44 AM, Margaret Olson 
> wrote:
> 
> We have no guarantees that the RLF will maintain Donelan's either. If
> Donelan's is not sufficiently profitable they will leave, and the RLF may
> or may not be willing and able to set their rent at a level that keeps them
> profitable.
>
> A note on the 2014 study: much of the research on the impact of the train
> was conducted at noon on a public holiday.
>
> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 10:07 AM Karla Gravis 
> wrote:
>
>> I want to emphasize that the Mall is currently a profitable concern.The
>> RLF disclosed a rental profit of $164,571 in 2022. Details here
>> .
>> However, if we rezone it by right, Civico would get to decide what
>> mix of commercial and residential to build. As a private enterprise, they
>> will choose to build whatever leads to the highest profits, which we know
>> is residential. Ms. Barnes mentioned that commercial space will be
>> reduced during the forum on Wednesday. We have no guarantees that Civico
>> would maintain Donelan's or any of the existing commercial space. This
>> outcome would be at odds with our goal of supporting our commercial center
>> and reducing the town's carbon footprint. This is one of the reasons why it
>> is so important that the Mall redevelopment goes through Town Meeting.
>>
>> It is also important to puncture the myth that building units at Lincoln
>> Station would do much to boost the commercial prospects of the area:
>>
>>- The Planning Board released a Lincoln Station Planning Study in
>>2014. The study concluded that each 100 units added would only support
>>2,500 sq ft of space. For reference, Donelan's footprint is 20,387 sq ft.
>>Study  here
>>
>> 
>>- 2,500 sq ft of commercial space per 100 units is probably a very
>>optimistic number. The Study assumed that the leakage (% of convenience
>>buys by residents that happen outside of Lincoln Station) would come down
>>from 80% to 50%. If we use the actual 80% leakage, those 100 units would
>>only support 1,000 sq ft of space.
>>- In all likelihood the leakage is actually higher than 80% today
>>given the increased penetration of online sales in the nine years elapsed.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: DJCP 
>>> Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 08:14
>>> Subject: Re: [LincolnTalk] Housing Choice Act and Exclusionary Zoning
>>> Report-the HAC will make us even more exclusive.
>>> To: Listserv Listserv 
>>>
>>>
>>> The best way to make sure commercial stays commercial is to make the
>>> businesses viable and the best way to do that is to make sure there are
>>> people shopping there. Sorry but people from other towns are not flocking
>>> to Lincoln to buy $10 pints of strawberries from Donelans. And I've only
>>> been here 5 years and have noticed the string of restaurants that have
>>> tried to fill the ONE space. Whether we make any changes there's no
>>> guarantee these businesses will stick around. That's capitalism folks. But
>>> we can help by AT LEAST zoning for more housing in the area.
>>>
>>> Diana
>>> Giles Rd
>>>
>>> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023, 8:08 AM Peter Buchthal 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Along similar lines, how can the town ensure commercial space stays
 commercial as the new owners could easily decide to raise very high or not
 renew any commercial lease in order to build more luxury residential units
 by right as long as the project has unused housing units 

Re: [LincolnTalk] Housing Choice Act and Exclusionary Zoning Report-the HAC will make us even more exclusive.

[DJCP]

The town has been working on this for 18 months. Diffuse options were
considered, but the overwhelming voices back when the options were being
first formulated said to concentrate everything in town center.  And I am
willing to bet that is still true.  To me, it seems that a small but vocal
group of people are speaking up now.  But we need to vote to comply with
the HCA in short order.  That is why this process started over a year ago!
As it is, this is just a zoning change, and there are no guarantees
anything will be built.  But it's still more than thoughts and prayers to
fix the housing (and climate) crisis.

Diana
Giles Rd

On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 10:41 AM Bijoy Misra  wrote:

> Everyone is sympathetic to housing and new people.  The issue is
> where to build.  The overwhelming voice is to exclude the Lincoln
> station area until a full analysis is done.  Congestion, transport
> and environment are the issues.  Hence the appeal is for distributed
> housing.  To sell the Lincoln station area for residential development
> without analysis would be suicidal for the town.  I am speaking on behalf
> of many who wish to live here and develop the town wholesome
> retaining its character.
> Best regards,
> Bijoy Misra
>
> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 10:19 AM DJCP  wrote:
>
>> First, I did not say I wanted people from other towns flocking here.  I
>> said the opposite.
>>
>> Second, I would love to maintain the rural character of Lincoln, too, but
>> the fact is we have a severe housing shortage not just in Massachusetts but
>> across the country. Families who work full time, multiple jobs cannot
>> afford apartments, much less condos or homes.  There are people looking to
>> step into home ownership who can't because they are priced out.  The
>> Massachusetts shelter system is full, not just from refugees and
>> immigrants, but from people who cannot find housing, no matter how much
>> assistance they have.  So, yes, even luxury condos would help.  (Though I
>> see the town's commendable track record of negotiating a higher level of
>> affordable housing and trust them to continue to do the same.)  But it is
>> also true that Lincoln's exclusionary zoning - which has maintained the
>> rural character we love - has contributed to the housing crisis.   Lastly,
>> I would love more taxpayers to come to town because in the end I am also a
>> capitalist and would like to see my taxes go down.  So I can buy berries
>> for my kids with abandon.
>>
>> Diana
>> Giles Rd
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 9:45 AM gail o'keefe 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Why on earth would we want people from other towns flocking to Lincoln
>>> for their groceries?? The beauty of Lincoln's current commercial area is it
>>> provides just what the town needs, and not more. This is an environmentally
>>> sound model, if not one for thriving capitalism. Lincoln's affordable
>>> housing can be expanded without giving up control to developers.
>>>
>>> Many people move to Lincoln specifically to avoid the traffic and
>>> commercial pressures that are evident in neighboring towns, once
>>> beautifully semi-rural, now overbuilt with strip malls. Lincoln has been
>>> preserved over the decades by careful planning and zoning.
>>>
>>>  As an example of developer-friendly zoning, Lexington has long had
>>> commercial zoning in the center, yet there are empty storefronts and over a
>>> dozen random banks. There are only two restaurants that have lasted over
>>> the years, dozens have shuttered. Zoning for the benefit of developers
>>> doesn't guarantee businesses will come, or stay. Belmont is also struggling
>>> with empty storefronts, it is happening across the region. Developers come
>>> and go, but residents are left with the developers' decisions, rarely based
>>> on the long term goals of the town. This is not a good model for Lincoln.
>>> If Lincoln cedes control to developers, it is in perpetuity, it can't be
>>> reversed.
>>>
>>> Many in town hope that the working group of the HCA ruling will slow the
>>> process, take the necessary time to address the concerns of the
>>> townspeople, and allow alternative choices on the ballot.
>>>
>>> Gail O'Keefe
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 8:14 AM DJCP  wrote:
>>>
 The best way to make sure commercial stays commercial is to make the
 businesses viable and the best way to do that is to make sure there are
 people shopping there. Sorry but people from other towns are not flocking
 to Lincoln to buy $10 pints of strawberries from Donelans. And I've only
 been here 5 years and have noticed the string of restaurants that have
 tried to fill the ONE space. Whether we make any changes there's no
 guarantee these businesses will stick around. That's capitalism folks. But
 we can help by AT LEAST zoning for more housing in the area.

 Diana
 Giles Rd

 On Sun, Nov 12, 2023, 8:08 AM Peter Buchthal 
 wrote:

> Along similar lines, how can the town ensure 

Re: [LincolnTalk] Housing Choice Act and Exclusionary Zoning Report-the HAC will make us even more exclusive.

[melinda bruno-smith]

I too thought the town was interested in developing or at least maintaining its 
commercial center.
Sent from my iPhone
Melinda Bruno-Smith




On Nov 12, 2023, at 10:44 AM, Margaret Olson  wrote:


We have no guarantees that the RLF will maintain Donelan's either. If Donelan's 
is not sufficiently profitable they will leave, and the RLF may or may not be 
willing and able to set their rent at a level that keeps them profitable.

A note on the 2014 study: much of the research on the impact of the train was 
conducted at noon on a public holiday.

On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 10:07 AM Karla Gravis 
mailto:karlagra...@gmail.com>> wrote:
I want to emphasize that the Mall is currently a profitable concern.The RLF 
disclosed a rental profit of $164,571 in 2022. Details 
here.
 However, if we rezone it by right, Civico would get to decide what mix of 
commercial and residential to build. As a private enterprise, they will choose 
to build whatever leads to the highest profits, which we know is residential. 
Ms. Barnes mentioned that commercial space will be reduced during the forum on 
Wednesday. We have no guarantees that Civico would maintain Donelan's or any of 
the existing commercial space. This outcome would be at odds with our goal of 
supporting our commercial center and reducing the town's carbon footprint. This 
is one of the reasons why it is so important that the Mall redevelopment goes 
through Town Meeting.

It is also important to puncture the myth that building units at Lincoln 
Station would do much to boost the commercial prospects of the area:

  *   The Planning Board released a Lincoln Station Planning Study in 2014. The 
study concluded that each 100 units added would only support 2,500 sq ft of 
space. For reference, Donelan's footprint is 20,387 sq ft. Study  
here
  *   2,500 sq ft of commercial space per 100 units is probably a very 
optimistic number. The Study assumed that the leakage (% of convenience buys by 
residents that happen outside of Lincoln Station) would come down from 80% to 
50%. If we use the actual 80% leakage, those 100 units would only support 1,000 
sq ft of space.
  *   In all likelihood the leakage is actually higher than 80% today given the 
increased penetration of online sales in the nine years elapsed.




From: DJCP mailto:djcp0...@gmail.com>>
Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 08:14
Subject: Re: [LincolnTalk] Housing Choice Act and Exclusionary Zoning 
Report-the HAC will make us even more exclusive.
To: Listserv Listserv mailto:lincoln@lincolntalk.org>>


The best way to make sure commercial stays commercial is to make the businesses 
viable and the best way to do that is to make sure there are people shopping 
there. Sorry but people from other towns are not flocking to Lincoln to buy $10 
pints of strawberries from Donelans. And I've only been here 5 years and have 
noticed the string of restaurants that have tried to fill the ONE space. 
Whether we make any changes there's no guarantee these businesses will stick 
around. That's capitalism folks. But we can help by AT LEAST zoning for more 
housing in the area.

Diana
Giles Rd

On Sun, Nov 12, 2023, 8:08 AM Peter Buchthal 
mailto:pbucht...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Along similar lines, how can the town ensure commercial space stays commercial 
as the new owners could easily decide to raise very high or not renew any 
commercial lease in order to build more luxury residential units by right as 
long as the project has unused housing units within the zoning allotment.


Peter Buchthal
Weston Rd

On Sat, Nov 11, 2023 at 12:27 PM David Cuetos 
mailto:davidcue...@gmail.com>> wrote:
How can the RLF guarantee that any particular commercial space will remain once 
they sell the land to Civico? Are they planning to include a requirement for a 
supermarket in the deed? Anything else would just be a "recommendation".

On Fri, Nov 10, 2023 at 6:09 PM Margo Fisher-Martin 
mailto:margo.fisher.mar...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi All,

We know that a zoning change does not “dictate” that anything be built or 
changed, but we also know that major changes WILL happen in Lincoln, should 
this pass. Do any of you remember many years ago when zoning changes were made 
that impacted any changes an owner could make (as much as a bay window) without 
ZBA approval on pre-existing non-conforming lots? Some people who are pushing 
for the re-zoning here are the same people that tried to instill the fear of 
“mansionisation” should we allow any changes to homes on less than 2 acre lots. 
At town meeting, they showed pictures of dense mid-rise housing from other 
towns to scare people into taking away the rights of the pre-existing 
(grandfathered) non-conforming lot owners. Now some of these same people are 
advocating for providing similar dense mid-rise housing 

Re: [LincolnTalk] Housing Choice Act and Exclusionary Zoning Report-the HAC will make us even more exclusive.

[Margaret Olson]

We have no guarantees that the RLF will maintain Donelan's either. If
Donelan's is not sufficiently profitable they will leave, and the RLF may
or may not be willing and able to set their rent at a level that keeps them
profitable.

A note on the 2014 study: much of the research on the impact of the train
was conducted at noon on a public holiday.

On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 10:07 AM Karla Gravis  wrote:

> I want to emphasize that the Mall is currently a profitable concern.The
> RLF disclosed a rental profit of $164,571 in 2022. Details here
> .
> However, if we rezone it by right, Civico would get to decide what mix of
> commercial and residential to build. As a private enterprise, they will
> choose to build whatever leads to the highest profits, which we know is
> residential. Ms. Barnes mentioned that commercial space will be reduced
> during the forum on Wednesday. We have no guarantees that Civico would
> maintain Donelan's or any of the existing commercial space. This outcome
> would be at odds with our goal of supporting our commercial center and
> reducing the town's carbon footprint. This is one of the reasons why it is
> so important that the Mall redevelopment goes through Town Meeting.
>
> It is also important to puncture the myth that building units at Lincoln
> Station would do much to boost the commercial prospects of the area:
>
>- The Planning Board released a Lincoln Station Planning Study in
>2014. The study concluded that each 100 units added would only support
>2,500 sq ft of space. For reference, Donelan's footprint is 20,387 sq ft.
>Study  here
>
> 
>- 2,500 sq ft of commercial space per 100 units is probably a very
>optimistic number. The Study assumed that the leakage (% of convenience
>buys by residents that happen outside of Lincoln Station) would come down
>from 80% to 50%. If we use the actual 80% leakage, those 100 units would
>only support 1,000 sq ft of space.
>- In all likelihood the leakage is actually higher than 80% today
>given the increased penetration of online sales in the nine years elapsed.
>
>
>
>
>
> From: DJCP 
>> Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 08:14
>> Subject: Re: [LincolnTalk] Housing Choice Act and Exclusionary Zoning
>> Report-the HAC will make us even more exclusive.
>> To: Listserv Listserv 
>>
>>
>> The best way to make sure commercial stays commercial is to make the
>> businesses viable and the best way to do that is to make sure there are
>> people shopping there. Sorry but people from other towns are not flocking
>> to Lincoln to buy $10 pints of strawberries from Donelans. And I've only
>> been here 5 years and have noticed the string of restaurants that have
>> tried to fill the ONE space. Whether we make any changes there's no
>> guarantee these businesses will stick around. That's capitalism folks. But
>> we can help by AT LEAST zoning for more housing in the area.
>>
>> Diana
>> Giles Rd
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023, 8:08 AM Peter Buchthal  wrote:
>>
>>> Along similar lines, how can the town ensure commercial space stays
>>> commercial as the new owners could easily decide to raise very high or not
>>> renew any commercial lease in order to build more luxury residential units
>>> by right as long as the project has unused housing units within the zoning
>>> allotment.
>>>
>>>
>>> Peter Buchthal
>>> Weston Rd
>>>
>>> On Sat, Nov 11, 2023 at 12:27 PM David Cuetos 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 How can the RLF guarantee that any particular commercial space will
 remain once they sell the land to Civico? Are they planning to include
 a requirement for a supermarket in the deed? Anything else would just be a
 "recommendation".

 On Fri, Nov 10, 2023 at 6:09 PM Margo Fisher-Martin <
 margo.fisher.mar...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> We know that a zoning change does not “dictate” that anything be built
> or changed, but we also know that major changes WILL happen in Lincoln,
> should this pass. Do any of you remember many years ago when zoning 
> changes
> were made that impacted any changes an owner could make (as much as a bay
> window) without ZBA approval on pre-existing non-conforming lots? Some
> people who are pushing for the re-zoning here are the same people that
> tried to instill the fear of “mansionisation” should we allow any changes
> to homes on less than 2 acre lots. At town meeting, they showed pictures 
> of
> dense mid-rise housing from other towns to scare people into taking away
> the rights of the pre-existing (grandfathered) non-conforming lot owners.
> Now some of these same people are advocating for providing similar dense
> mid-rise housing that they were adamantly opposed to. What happened to the
> 

Re: [LincolnTalk] Housing Choice Act and Exclusionary Zoning Report-the HAC will make us even more exclusive.

[DJCP]

First, I did not say I wanted people from other towns flocking here.  I
said the opposite.

Second, I would love to maintain the rural character of Lincoln, too, but
the fact is we have a severe housing shortage not just in Massachusetts but
across the country. Families who work full time, multiple jobs cannot
afford apartments, much less condos or homes.  There are people looking to
step into home ownership who can't because they are priced out.  The
Massachusetts shelter system is full, not just from refugees and
immigrants, but from people who cannot find housing, no matter how much
assistance they have.  So, yes, even luxury condos would help.  (Though I
see the town's commendable track record of negotiating a higher level of
affordable housing and trust them to continue to do the same.)  But it is
also true that Lincoln's exclusionary zoning - which has maintained the
rural character we love - has contributed to the housing crisis.   Lastly,
I would love more taxpayers to come to town because in the end I am also a
capitalist and would like to see my taxes go down.  So I can buy berries
for my kids with abandon.

Diana
Giles Rd

On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 9:45 AM gail o'keefe  wrote:

> Why on earth would we want people from other towns flocking to Lincoln for
> their groceries?? The beauty of Lincoln's current commercial area is it
> provides just what the town needs, and not more. This is an environmentally
> sound model, if not one for thriving capitalism. Lincoln's affordable
> housing can be expanded without giving up control to developers.
>
> Many people move to Lincoln specifically to avoid the traffic and
> commercial pressures that are evident in neighboring towns, once
> beautifully semi-rural, now overbuilt with strip malls. Lincoln has been
> preserved over the decades by careful planning and zoning.
>
>  As an example of developer-friendly zoning, Lexington has long had
> commercial zoning in the center, yet there are empty storefronts and over a
> dozen random banks. There are only two restaurants that have lasted over
> the years, dozens have shuttered. Zoning for the benefit of developers
> doesn't guarantee businesses will come, or stay. Belmont is also struggling
> with empty storefronts, it is happening across the region. Developers come
> and go, but residents are left with the developers' decisions, rarely based
> on the long term goals of the town. This is not a good model for Lincoln.
> If Lincoln cedes control to developers, it is in perpetuity, it can't be
> reversed.
>
> Many in town hope that the working group of the HCA ruling will slow the
> process, take the necessary time to address the concerns of the
> townspeople, and allow alternative choices on the ballot.
>
> Gail O'Keefe
>
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 8:14 AM DJCP  wrote:
>
>> The best way to make sure commercial stays commercial is to make the
>> businesses viable and the best way to do that is to make sure there are
>> people shopping there. Sorry but people from other towns are not flocking
>> to Lincoln to buy $10 pints of strawberries from Donelans. And I've only
>> been here 5 years and have noticed the string of restaurants that have
>> tried to fill the ONE space. Whether we make any changes there's no
>> guarantee these businesses will stick around. That's capitalism folks. But
>> we can help by AT LEAST zoning for more housing in the area.
>>
>> Diana
>> Giles Rd
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023, 8:08 AM Peter Buchthal  wrote:
>>
>>> Along similar lines, how can the town ensure commercial space stays
>>> commercial as the new owners could easily decide to raise very high or not
>>> renew any commercial lease in order to build more luxury residential units
>>> by right as long as the project has unused housing units within the zoning
>>> allotment.
>>>
>>>
>>> Peter Buchthal
>>> Weston Rd
>>>
>>> On Sat, Nov 11, 2023 at 12:27 PM David Cuetos 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 How can the RLF guarantee that any particular commercial space will
 remain once they sell the land to Civico? Are they planning to include
 a requirement for a supermarket in the deed? Anything else would just be a
 "recommendation".

 On Fri, Nov 10, 2023 at 6:09 PM Margo Fisher-Martin <
 margo.fisher.mar...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> We know that a zoning change does not “dictate” that anything be built
> or changed, but we also know that major changes WILL happen in Lincoln,
> should this pass. Do any of you remember many years ago when zoning 
> changes
> were made that impacted any changes an owner could make (as much as a bay
> window) without ZBA approval on pre-existing non-conforming lots? Some
> people who are pushing for the re-zoning here are the same people that
> tried to instill the fear of “mansionisation” should we allow any changes
> to homes on less than 2 acre lots. At town meeting, they showed pictures 
> of
> dense mid-rise housing from other 

Re: [LincolnTalk] Housing Choice Act and Exclusionary Zoning Report-the HAC will make us even more exclusive.

[Karla Gravis]

I want to emphasize that the Mall is currently a profitable concern.The RLF
disclosed a rental profit of $164,571 in 2022. Details here
.
However, if we rezone it by right, Civico would get to decide what mix of
commercial and residential to build. As a private enterprise, they will
choose to build whatever leads to the highest profits, which we know is
residential. Ms. Barnes mentioned that commercial space will be reduced
during the forum on Wednesday. We have no guarantees that Civico would
maintain Donelan's or any of the existing commercial space. This outcome
would be at odds with our goal of supporting our commercial center and
reducing the town's carbon footprint. This is one of the reasons why it is
so important that the Mall redevelopment goes through Town Meeting.

It is also important to puncture the myth that building units at Lincoln
Station would do much to boost the commercial prospects of the area:

   - The Planning Board released a Lincoln Station Planning Study in 2014.
   The study concluded that each 100 units added would only support 2,500 sq
   ft of space. For reference, Donelan's footprint is 20,387 sq ft. Study
   here
   

   - 2,500 sq ft of commercial space per 100 units is probably a very
   optimistic number. The Study assumed that the leakage (% of convenience
   buys by residents that happen outside of Lincoln Station) would come down
   from 80% to 50%. If we use the actual 80% leakage, those 100 units would
   only support 1,000 sq ft of space.
   - In all likelihood the leakage is actually higher than 80% today given
   the increased penetration of online sales in the nine years elapsed.





From: DJCP 
> Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 08:14
> Subject: Re: [LincolnTalk] Housing Choice Act and Exclusionary Zoning
> Report-the HAC will make us even more exclusive.
> To: Listserv Listserv 
>
>
> The best way to make sure commercial stays commercial is to make the
> businesses viable and the best way to do that is to make sure there are
> people shopping there. Sorry but people from other towns are not flocking
> to Lincoln to buy $10 pints of strawberries from Donelans. And I've only
> been here 5 years and have noticed the string of restaurants that have
> tried to fill the ONE space. Whether we make any changes there's no
> guarantee these businesses will stick around. That's capitalism folks. But
> we can help by AT LEAST zoning for more housing in the area.
>
> Diana
> Giles Rd
>
> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023, 8:08 AM Peter Buchthal  wrote:
>
>> Along similar lines, how can the town ensure commercial space stays
>> commercial as the new owners could easily decide to raise very high or not
>> renew any commercial lease in order to build more luxury residential units
>> by right as long as the project has unused housing units within the zoning
>> allotment.
>>
>>
>> Peter Buchthal
>> Weston Rd
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 11, 2023 at 12:27 PM David Cuetos 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> How can the RLF guarantee that any particular commercial space will
>>> remain once they sell the land to Civico? Are they planning to include
>>> a requirement for a supermarket in the deed? Anything else would just be a
>>> "recommendation".
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 10, 2023 at 6:09 PM Margo Fisher-Martin <
>>> margo.fisher.mar...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 Hi All,

 We know that a zoning change does not “dictate” that anything be built
 or changed, but we also know that major changes WILL happen in Lincoln,
 should this pass. Do any of you remember many years ago when zoning changes
 were made that impacted any changes an owner could make (as much as a bay
 window) without ZBA approval on pre-existing non-conforming lots? Some
 people who are pushing for the re-zoning here are the same people that
 tried to instill the fear of “mansionisation” should we allow any changes
 to homes on less than 2 acre lots. At town meeting, they showed pictures of
 dense mid-rise housing from other towns to scare people into taking away
 the rights of the pre-existing (grandfathered) non-conforming lot owners.
 Now some of these same people are advocating for providing similar dense
 mid-rise housing that they were adamantly opposed to. What happened to the
 “stewards of the land?”

 Sincerely,

 Margo Martin






 On Fri, Nov 10, 2023 at 5:27 PM Margaret Olson 
 wrote:

> Michelle Barnes from the RLF can confirm, but I believe Donelan's will
 remain after the mall redevelopment.

 A reminder: zoning affects what the property owner has a right to do
 with their property. It does not dictate that anything be built or changed.

 On Fri, Nov 10, 2023 at 4:38 PM Terri via Lincoln <
 lincoln@lincolntalk.org> wrote:

Re: [LincolnTalk] Housing Choice Act and Exclusionary Zoning Report-the HAC will make us even more exclusive.

[DJCP]

The best way to make sure commercial stays commercial is to make the
businesses viable and the best way to do that is to make sure there are
people shopping there. Sorry but people from other towns are not flocking
to Lincoln to buy $10 pints of strawberries from Donelans. And I've only
been here 5 years and have noticed the string of restaurants that have
tried to fill the ONE space. Whether we make any changes there's no
guarantee these businesses will stick around. That's capitalism folks. But
we can help by AT LEAST zoning for more housing in the area.

Diana
Giles Rd

On Sun, Nov 12, 2023, 8:08 AM Peter Buchthal  wrote:

> Along similar lines, how can the town ensure commercial space stays
> commercial as the new owners could easily decide to raise very high or not
> renew any commercial lease in order to build more luxury residential units
> by right as long as the project has unused housing units within the zoning
> allotment.
>
>
> Peter Buchthal
> Weston Rd
>
> On Sat, Nov 11, 2023 at 12:27 PM David Cuetos 
> wrote:
>
>> How can the RLF guarantee that any particular commercial space will
>> remain once they sell the land to Civico? Are they planning to include
>> a requirement for a supermarket in the deed? Anything else would just be a
>> "recommendation".
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 10, 2023 at 6:09 PM Margo Fisher-Martin <
>> margo.fisher.mar...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> We know that a zoning change does not “dictate” that anything be built
>>> or changed, but we also know that major changes WILL happen in Lincoln,
>>> should this pass. Do any of you remember many years ago when zoning changes
>>> were made that impacted any changes an owner could make (as much as a bay
>>> window) without ZBA approval on pre-existing non-conforming lots? Some
>>> people who are pushing for the re-zoning here are the same people that
>>> tried to instill the fear of “mansionisation” should we allow any changes
>>> to homes on less than 2 acre lots. At town meeting, they showed pictures of
>>> dense mid-rise housing from other towns to scare people into taking away
>>> the rights of the pre-existing (grandfathered) non-conforming lot owners.
>>> Now some of these same people are advocating for providing similar dense
>>> mid-rise housing that they were adamantly opposed to. What happened to the
>>> “stewards of the land?”
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>>
>>> Margo Martin
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 10, 2023 at 5:27 PM Margaret Olson 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Michelle Barnes from the RLF can confirm, but I believe Donelan's will
>>> remain after the mall redevelopment.
>>>
>>> A reminder: zoning affects what the property owner has a right to do
>>> with their property. It does not dictate that anything be built or changed.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 10, 2023 at 4:38 PM Terri via Lincoln <
>>> lincoln@lincolntalk.org> wrote:
>>>
 Hi all,

 If I am reading  the rezoning plans correctly the  Reducition in
 retail includes eliminating Donelans and the  Bank.

>>> Is this correct?
>
> Theresa K
>
>
> On Friday, November 10, 2023 at 11:25:26 AM EST, Sara Mattes <
> samat...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Is the alternative for the nation area to fill it with dense housing,
> while we are told there will be reduction in retail?
> And, that housing will only reflect the wealth gap-only 10%
> affordable, and the rest, high-end?
>
> What happened to the concept of a “vibrant commercial center?”
> What happened to a “walkable village?”
> What will everyone walk to as retail is reduced?
> Each other's units?
>
> Let us be more creative in what we can develop.
> As Ken has suggested, we have done it in the past.
> We seem to have lost our mojo.
> Let’s get it back.
>
> The HCA is NOT the answer.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Sara Mattes
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 10, 2023, at 10:55 AM, Ken Hurd  wrote:
>
> Hello LincolnTalkers,
>
> During the discussion on the Zoom forum hosted by the HCAWG on
> Wednesday evening, I mentioned the recently released report on the history
> of exclusionary zoning in the Boston area.  And also, for those of you who
> couldn’t stay to see it following the Wednesday morning forum at Town 
> Hall,
> below is the link to hear the presentation sponsored by The Boston
> Foundation.
>
> Unless we know our history, it is known that history has a tendency to
> repeat itself. With respect to objections raised to the options offered by
> the Housing Choice Working Group, I do hope that current residents can
> follow the example of earlier Lincoln leaders from the 1970’s who worked
> with, rather than against, the 40B mandate from the state to provide more
> affordable housing.  That, and their efforts to preserve land in a way 
> that
> could be shared with others, made Lincoln a model community that 

Re: [LincolnTalk] Housing Choice Act and Exclusionary Zoning Report-the HAC will make us even more exclusive.

[Peter Buchthal]

Along similar lines, how can the town ensure commercial space stays
commercial as the new owners could easily decide to raise very high or not
renew any commercial lease in order to build more luxury residential units
by right as long as the project has unused housing units within the zoning
allotment.


Peter Buchthal
Weston Rd

On Sat, Nov 11, 2023 at 12:27 PM David Cuetos  wrote:

> How can the RLF guarantee that any particular commercial space will remain
> once they sell the land to Civico? Are they planning to include
> a requirement for a supermarket in the deed? Anything else would just be a
> "recommendation".
>
> On Fri, Nov 10, 2023 at 6:09 PM Margo Fisher-Martin <
> margo.fisher.mar...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> We know that a zoning change does not “dictate” that anything be built or
>> changed, but we also know that major changes WILL happen in Lincoln, should
>> this pass. Do any of you remember many years ago when zoning changes were
>> made that impacted any changes an owner could make (as much as a bay
>> window) without ZBA approval on pre-existing non-conforming lots? Some
>> people who are pushing for the re-zoning here are the same people that
>> tried to instill the fear of “mansionisation” should we allow any changes
>> to homes on less than 2 acre lots. At town meeting, they showed pictures of
>> dense mid-rise housing from other towns to scare people into taking away
>> the rights of the pre-existing (grandfathered) non-conforming lot owners.
>> Now some of these same people are advocating for providing similar dense
>> mid-rise housing that they were adamantly opposed to. What happened to the
>> “stewards of the land?”
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> Margo Martin
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 10, 2023 at 5:27 PM Margaret Olson 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Michelle Barnes from the RLF can confirm, but I believe Donelan's will
>> remain after the mall redevelopment.
>>
>> A reminder: zoning affects what the property owner has a right to do with
>> their property. It does not dictate that anything be built or changed.
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 10, 2023 at 4:38 PM Terri via Lincoln <
>> lincoln@lincolntalk.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> If I am reading  the rezoning plans correctly the  Reducition in
>>> retail includes eliminating Donelans and the  Bank.
>>>
>> Is this correct?

 Theresa K


 On Friday, November 10, 2023 at 11:25:26 AM EST, Sara Mattes <
 samat...@gmail.com> wrote:


 Is the alternative for the nation area to fill it with dense housing,
 while we are told there will be reduction in retail?
 And, that housing will only reflect the wealth gap-only 10% affordable,
 and the rest, high-end?

 What happened to the concept of a “vibrant commercial center?”
 What happened to a “walkable village?”
 What will everyone walk to as retail is reduced?
 Each other's units?

 Let us be more creative in what we can develop.
 As Ken has suggested, we have done it in the past.
 We seem to have lost our mojo.
 Let’s get it back.

 The HCA is NOT the answer.




 --
 Sara Mattes




 On Nov 10, 2023, at 10:55 AM, Ken Hurd  wrote:

 Hello LincolnTalkers,

 During the discussion on the Zoom forum hosted by the HCAWG on
 Wednesday evening, I mentioned the recently released report on the history
 of exclusionary zoning in the Boston area.  And also, for those of you who
 couldn’t stay to see it following the Wednesday morning forum at Town Hall,
 below is the link to hear the presentation sponsored by The Boston
 Foundation.

 Unless we know our history, it is known that history has a tendency to
 repeat itself. With respect to objections raised to the options offered by
 the Housing Choice Working Group, I do hope that current residents can
 follow the example of earlier Lincoln leaders from the 1970’s who worked
 with, rather than against, the 40B mandate from the state to provide more
 affordable housing.  That, and their efforts to preserve land in a way that
 could be shared with others, made Lincoln a model community that attracted
 national attention.

 With the Housing Choice Act, there is no less an opportunity to combine
 our responsibility to provide more housing in the greater Boston region
 with helping to revive the ailing Lincoln Station area.  After all, given
 our current manner of approving development around Lincoln Station and the
 fact that there has been no interest by developers in doing so for the past
 eighteen years, even with more favorable economic conditions, why should we
 expect anything different other than more empty spaces available for lease
 going forward?

 I urge us to affirm the work of the Working Group to fulfill the spirit
 of the Housing Choice Act by supporting Option C, including the rezoning 

Re: [LincolnTalk] Housing Choice Act and Exclusionary Zoning Report-the HAC will make us even more exclusive.

[David Cuetos]

How can the RLF guarantee that any particular commercial space will remain
once they sell the land to Civico? Are they planning to include
a requirement for a supermarket in the deed? Anything else would just be a
"recommendation".

On Fri, Nov 10, 2023 at 6:09 PM Margo Fisher-Martin <
margo.fisher.mar...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> We know that a zoning change does not “dictate” that anything be built or
> changed, but we also know that major changes WILL happen in Lincoln, should
> this pass. Do any of you remember many years ago when zoning changes were
> made that impacted any changes an owner could make (as much as a bay
> window) without ZBA approval on pre-existing non-conforming lots? Some
> people who are pushing for the re-zoning here are the same people that
> tried to instill the fear of “mansionisation” should we allow any changes
> to homes on less than 2 acre lots. At town meeting, they showed pictures of
> dense mid-rise housing from other towns to scare people into taking away
> the rights of the pre-existing (grandfathered) non-conforming lot owners.
> Now some of these same people are advocating for providing similar dense
> mid-rise housing that they were adamantly opposed to. What happened to the
> “stewards of the land?”
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Margo Martin
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 10, 2023 at 5:27 PM Margaret Olson 
> wrote:
>
>> Michelle Barnes from the RLF can confirm, but I believe Donelan's will
> remain after the mall redevelopment.
>
> A reminder: zoning affects what the property owner has a right to do with
> their property. It does not dictate that anything be built or changed.
>
> On Fri, Nov 10, 2023 at 4:38 PM Terri via Lincoln 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> If I am reading  the rezoning plans correctly the  Reducition in
>> retail includes eliminating Donelans and the  Bank.
>>
> Is this correct?
>>>
>>> Theresa K
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, November 10, 2023 at 11:25:26 AM EST, Sara Mattes <
>>> samat...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Is the alternative for the nation area to fill it with dense housing,
>>> while we are told there will be reduction in retail?
>>> And, that housing will only reflect the wealth gap-only 10% affordable,
>>> and the rest, high-end?
>>>
>>> What happened to the concept of a “vibrant commercial center?”
>>> What happened to a “walkable village?”
>>> What will everyone walk to as retail is reduced?
>>> Each other's units?
>>>
>>> Let us be more creative in what we can develop.
>>> As Ken has suggested, we have done it in the past.
>>> We seem to have lost our mojo.
>>> Let’s get it back.
>>>
>>> The HCA is NOT the answer.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sara Mattes
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Nov 10, 2023, at 10:55 AM, Ken Hurd  wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello LincolnTalkers,
>>>
>>> During the discussion on the Zoom forum hosted by the HCAWG on Wednesday
>>> evening, I mentioned the recently released report on the history of
>>> exclusionary zoning in the Boston area.  And also, for those of you who
>>> couldn’t stay to see it following the Wednesday morning forum at Town Hall,
>>> below is the link to hear the presentation sponsored by The Boston
>>> Foundation.
>>>
>>> Unless we know our history, it is known that history has a tendency to
>>> repeat itself. With respect to objections raised to the options offered by
>>> the Housing Choice Working Group, I do hope that current residents can
>>> follow the example of earlier Lincoln leaders from the 1970’s who worked
>>> with, rather than against, the 40B mandate from the state to provide more
>>> affordable housing.  That, and their efforts to preserve land in a way that
>>> could be shared with others, made Lincoln a model community that attracted
>>> national attention.
>>>
>>> With the Housing Choice Act, there is no less an opportunity to combine
>>> our responsibility to provide more housing in the greater Boston region
>>> with helping to revive the ailing Lincoln Station area.  After all, given
>>> our current manner of approving development around Lincoln Station and the
>>> fact that there has been no interest by developers in doing so for the past
>>> eighteen years, even with more favorable economic conditions, why should we
>>> expect anything different other than more empty spaces available for lease
>>> going forward?
>>>
>>> I urge us to affirm the work of the Working Group to fulfill the spirit
>>> of the Housing Choice Act by supporting Option C, including the rezoning of
>>> the mall, to address this conundrum.
>>>
>>> Here is the link to the report:
>>>
>>> Exclusionary by Design: An Investigation of Zoning’s Use as a Tool of
>>> Race, Class, and Family Exclusion in Boston’s Suburbs, 1920 to Today
>>> 
>>> tbf.org
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 

Re: [LincolnTalk] Housing Choice Act and Exclusionary Zoning Report-the HAC will make us even more exclusive.

[William Broughton]

There is a difference between the statement that Donelan's will remain
after the *initial *mall redevelopment, and what may happen after that.
Thus far it sounds like the RLF ground lease is far from guaranteed. What
is going to happen once the RLF is out of the picture and CIVICO decides to
redevelop the *rest* of the mall. They will have significant leeway within
the proposed by-right zoning. Are we supposed to trust that the developer
will preserve a spot for our only grocery store in town, instead of
shrinking commercial and adding more residential? What about the other
building - our only full-service restaurant space in town? Unless there are
specific restrictions and protections in place - which I asked at
Wednesday's forum and got a non-answer - then I wouldn't bet on it. There
was much talk on Wednesday about putting trust in RLF, and I do, however
once the sale happens the RLF will not be in control and we will be putting
our trust in CIVICO, and that I find hard to buy into.

Best,
Will Broughton



On Fri, Nov 10, 2023 at 5:28 PM Margaret Olson 
wrote:

> Michelle Barnes from the RLF can confirm, but I believe Donelan's will
> remain after the mall redevelopment.
>
> A reminder: zoning affects what the property owner has a right to do with
> their property. It does not dictate that anything be built or changed.
>
> On Fri, Nov 10, 2023 at 4:38 PM Terri via Lincoln 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> If I am reading  the rezoning plans correctly the  Reduction in
>> retail includes eliminating Donelans and the  Bank.
>> Is this correct?
>>
>> Theresa K
>>
>>
>> On Friday, November 10, 2023 at 11:25:26 AM EST, Sara Mattes <
>> samat...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Is the alternative for the nation area to fill it with dense housing,
>> while we are told there will be reduction in retail?
>> And, that housing will only reflect the wealth gap-only 10% affordable,
>> and the rest, high-end?
>>
>> What happened to the concept of a “vibrant commercial center?”
>> What happened to a “walkable village?”
>> What will everyone walk to as retail is reduced?
>> Each other's units?
>>
>> Let us be more creative in what we can develop.
>> As Ken has suggested, we have done it in the past.
>> We seem to have lost our mojo.
>> Let’s get it back.
>>
>> The HCA is NOT the answer.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sara Mattes
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Nov 10, 2023, at 10:55 AM, Ken Hurd  wrote:
>>
>> Hello LincolnTalkers,
>>
>> During the discussion on the Zoom forum hosted by the HCAWG on Wednesday
>> evening, I mentioned the recently released report on the history of
>> exclusionary zoning in the Boston area.  And also, for those of you who
>> couldn’t stay to see it following the Wednesday morning forum at Town Hall,
>> below is the link to hear the presentation sponsored by The Boston
>> Foundation.
>>
>> Unless we know our history, it is known that history has a tendency to
>> repeat itself. With respect to objections raised to the options offered by
>> the Housing Choice Working Group, I do hope that current residents can
>> follow the example of earlier Lincoln leaders from the 1970’s who worked
>> with, rather than against, the 40B mandate from the state to provide more
>> affordable housing.  That, and their efforts to preserve land in a way that
>> could be shared with others, made Lincoln a model community that attracted
>> national attention.
>>
>> With the Housing Choice Act, there is no less an opportunity to combine
>> our responsibility to provide more housing in the greater Boston region
>> with helping to revive the ailing Lincoln Station area.  After all, given
>> our current manner of approving development around Lincoln Station and the
>> fact that there has been no interest by developers in doing so for the past
>> eighteen years, even with more favorable economic conditions, why should we
>> expect anything different other than more empty spaces available for lease
>> going forward?
>>
>> I urge us to affirm the work of the Working Group to fulfill the spirit
>> of the Housing Choice Act by supporting Option C, including the rezoning of
>> the mall, to address this conundrum.
>>
>> Here is the link to the report:
>>
>> Exclusionary by Design: An Investigation of Zoning’s Use as a Tool of
>> Race, Class, and Family Exclusion in Boston’s Suburbs, 1920 to Today
>> 
>> tbf.org
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>
>> Respectfully,
>> Ken Hurd
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
>> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
>> Browse the archives at
>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/.
>> Change your subscription 

Re: [LincolnTalk] Housing Choice Act and Exclusionary Zoning Report-the HAC will make us even more exclusive.

[Margo Fisher-Martin]

Hi All,

We know that a zoning change does not “dictate” that anything be built or
changed, but we also know that major changes WILL happen in Lincoln, should
this pass. Do any of you remember many years ago when zoning changes were
made that impacted any changes an owner could make (as much as a bay
window) without ZBA approval on pre-existing non-conforming lots? Some
people who are pushing for the re-zoning here are the same people that
tried to instill the fear of “mansionisation” should we allow any changes
to homes on less than 2 acre lots. At town meeting, they showed pictures of
dense mid-rise housing from other towns to scare people into taking away
the rights of the pre-existing (grandfathered) non-conforming lot owners.
Now some of these same people are advocating for providing similar dense
mid-rise housing that they were adamantly opposed to. What happened to the
“stewards of the land?”

Sincerely,

Margo Martin






On Fri, Nov 10, 2023 at 5:27 PM Margaret Olson 
wrote:

> Michelle Barnes from the RLF can confirm, but I believe Donelan's will
remain after the mall redevelopment.

A reminder: zoning affects what the property owner has a right to do with
their property. It does not dictate that anything be built or changed.

On Fri, Nov 10, 2023 at 4:38 PM Terri via Lincoln 
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> If I am reading  the rezoning plans correctly the  Reducition in
> retail includes eliminating Donelans and the  Bank.
>
Is this correct?
>>
>> Theresa K
>>
>>
>> On Friday, November 10, 2023 at 11:25:26 AM EST, Sara Mattes <
>> samat...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Is the alternative for the nation area to fill it with dense housing,
>> while we are told there will be reduction in retail?
>> And, that housing will only reflect the wealth gap-only 10% affordable,
>> and the rest, high-end?
>>
>> What happened to the concept of a “vibrant commercial center?”
>> What happened to a “walkable village?”
>> What will everyone walk to as retail is reduced?
>> Each other's units?
>>
>> Let us be more creative in what we can develop.
>> As Ken has suggested, we have done it in the past.
>> We seem to have lost our mojo.
>> Let’s get it back.
>>
>> The HCA is NOT the answer.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sara Mattes
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Nov 10, 2023, at 10:55 AM, Ken Hurd  wrote:
>>
>> Hello LincolnTalkers,
>>
>> During the discussion on the Zoom forum hosted by the HCAWG on Wednesday
>> evening, I mentioned the recently released report on the history of
>> exclusionary zoning in the Boston area.  And also, for those of you who
>> couldn’t stay to see it following the Wednesday morning forum at Town Hall,
>> below is the link to hear the presentation sponsored by The Boston
>> Foundation.
>>
>> Unless we know our history, it is known that history has a tendency to
>> repeat itself. With respect to objections raised to the options offered by
>> the Housing Choice Working Group, I do hope that current residents can
>> follow the example of earlier Lincoln leaders from the 1970’s who worked
>> with, rather than against, the 40B mandate from the state to provide more
>> affordable housing.  That, and their efforts to preserve land in a way that
>> could be shared with others, made Lincoln a model community that attracted
>> national attention.
>>
>> With the Housing Choice Act, there is no less an opportunity to combine
>> our responsibility to provide more housing in the greater Boston region
>> with helping to revive the ailing Lincoln Station area.  After all, given
>> our current manner of approving development around Lincoln Station and the
>> fact that there has been no interest by developers in doing so for the past
>> eighteen years, even with more favorable economic conditions, why should we
>> expect anything different other than more empty spaces available for lease
>> going forward?
>>
>> I urge us to affirm the work of the Working Group to fulfill the spirit
>> of the Housing Choice Act by supporting Option C, including the rezoning of
>> the mall, to address this conundrum.
>>
>> Here is the link to the report:
>>
>> Exclusionary by Design: An Investigation of Zoning’s Use as a Tool of
>> Race, Class, and Family Exclusion in Boston’s Suburbs, 1920 to Today
>> 
>> tbf.org
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>
>> Respectfully,
>> Ken Hurd
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
>> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
>> Browse the archives at
>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/.
>> Change your subscription settings at
>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
>>
>>
>> --
>> The LincolnTalk 

Re: [LincolnTalk] Housing Choice Act and Exclusionary Zoning Report-the HAC will make us even more exclusive.

[Margaret Olson]

Michelle Barnes from the RLF can confirm, but I believe Donelan's will
remain after the mall redevelopment.

A reminder: zoning affects what the property owner has a right to do with
their property. It does not dictate that anything be built or changed.

On Fri, Nov 10, 2023 at 4:38 PM Terri via Lincoln 
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> If I am reading  the rezoning plans correctly the  Reduction in retail
> includes eliminating Donelans and the  Bank.
> Is this correct?
>
> Theresa K
>
>
> On Friday, November 10, 2023 at 11:25:26 AM EST, Sara Mattes <
> samat...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Is the alternative for the nation area to fill it with dense housing,
> while we are told there will be reduction in retail?
> And, that housing will only reflect the wealth gap-only 10% affordable,
> and the rest, high-end?
>
> What happened to the concept of a “vibrant commercial center?”
> What happened to a “walkable village?”
> What will everyone walk to as retail is reduced?
> Each other's units?
>
> Let us be more creative in what we can develop.
> As Ken has suggested, we have done it in the past.
> We seem to have lost our mojo.
> Let’s get it back.
>
> The HCA is NOT the answer.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Sara Mattes
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 10, 2023, at 10:55 AM, Ken Hurd  wrote:
>
> Hello LincolnTalkers,
>
> During the discussion on the Zoom forum hosted by the HCAWG on Wednesday
> evening, I mentioned the recently released report on the history of
> exclusionary zoning in the Boston area.  And also, for those of you who
> couldn’t stay to see it following the Wednesday morning forum at Town Hall,
> below is the link to hear the presentation sponsored by The Boston
> Foundation.
>
> Unless we know our history, it is known that history has a tendency to
> repeat itself. With respect to objections raised to the options offered by
> the Housing Choice Working Group, I do hope that current residents can
> follow the example of earlier Lincoln leaders from the 1970’s who worked
> with, rather than against, the 40B mandate from the state to provide more
> affordable housing.  That, and their efforts to preserve land in a way that
> could be shared with others, made Lincoln a model community that attracted
> national attention.
>
> With the Housing Choice Act, there is no less an opportunity to combine
> our responsibility to provide more housing in the greater Boston region
> with helping to revive the ailing Lincoln Station area.  After all, given
> our current manner of approving development around Lincoln Station and the
> fact that there has been no interest by developers in doing so for the past
> eighteen years, even with more favorable economic conditions, why should we
> expect anything different other than more empty spaces available for lease
> going forward?
>
> I urge us to affirm the work of the Working Group to fulfill the spirit of
> the Housing Choice Act by supporting Option C, including the rezoning of
> the mall, to address this conundrum.
>
> Here is the link to the report:
>
> Exclusionary by Design: An Investigation of Zoning’s Use as a Tool of
> Race, Class, and Family Exclusion in Boston’s Suburbs, 1920 to Today
> 
> tbf.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
>
> Respectfully,
> Ken Hurd
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
> Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/
> .
> Change your subscription settings at
> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
>
>
> --
> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
> Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/
> .
> Change your subscription settings at
> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
>
> --
> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
> Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/
> .
> Change your subscription settings at
> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
>
>
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Re: [LincolnTalk] Housing Choice Act and Exclusionary Zoning Report-the HAC will make us even more exclusive.

[Terri via Lincoln]

 Hi all,
If I am reading  the rezoning plans correctly the  Reduction in retail 
includes eliminating Donelans and the  Bank.Is this correct?   
Theresa K

On Friday, November 10, 2023 at 11:25:26 AM EST, Sara Mattes 
 wrote:  
 
 Is the alternative for the nation area to fill it with dense housing, while we 
are told there will be reduction in retail?And, that housing will only reflect 
the wealth gap-only 10% affordable, and the rest, high-end?
What happened to the concept of a “vibrant commercial center?”What happened to 
a “walkable village?”What will everyone walk to as retail is reduced?Each 
other's units?
Let us be more creative in what we can develop.As Ken has suggested, we have 
done it in the past.We seem to have lost our mojo.Let’s get it back.
The HCA is NOT the answer.



--
Sara Mattes





On Nov 10, 2023, at 10:55 AM, Ken Hurd  wrote:

Hello LincolnTalkers,
During the discussion on the Zoom forum hosted by the HCAWG on Wednesday 
evening, I mentioned the recently released report on the history of 
exclusionary zoning in the Boston area.  And also, for those of you who 
couldn’t stay to see it following the Wednesday morning forum at Town Hall, 
below is the link to hear the presentation sponsored by The Boston Foundation.
Unless we know our history, it is known that history has a tendency to repeat 
itself. With respect to objections raised to the options offered by the Housing 
Choice Working Group, I do hope that current residents can follow the example 
of earlier Lincoln leaders from the 1970’s who worked with, rather than 
against, the 40B mandate from the state to provide more affordable housing.  
That, and their efforts to preserve land in a way that could be shared with 
others, made Lincoln a model community that attracted national attention.  
With the Housing Choice Act, there is no less an opportunity to combine our 
responsibility to provide more housing in the greater Boston region with 
helping to revive the ailing Lincoln Station area.  After all, given our 
current manner of approving development around Lincoln Station and the fact 
that there has been no interest by developers in doing so for the past eighteen 
years, even with more favorable economic conditions, why should we expect 
anything different other than more empty spaces available for lease going 
forward?
I urge us to affirm the work of the Working Group to fulfill the spirit of the 
Housing Choice Act by supporting Option C, including the rezoning of the mall, 
to address this conundrum.
Here is the link to the report:

| 
| Exclusionary by Design: An Investigation of Zoning’s Use as a Tool of Race, 
Class, and Family Exclusion in Boston’s Suburbs, 1920 to Todaytbf.org | 
 |

 |


Respectfully,Ken Hurd











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Re: [LincolnTalk] Housing Choice Act and Exclusionary Zoning Report-the HAC will make us even more exclusive.

[Sara Mattes]

Is the alternative for the nation area to fill it with dense housing, while we 
are told there will be reduction in retail?
And, that housing will only reflect the wealth gap-only 10% affordable, and the 
rest, high-end?

What happened to the concept of a “vibrant commercial center?”
What happened to a “walkable village?”
What will everyone walk to as retail is reduced?
Each other's units?

Let us be more creative in what we can develop.
As Ken has suggested, we have done it in the past.
We seem to have lost our mojo.
Let’s get it back.

The HCA is NOT the answer.




--
Sara Mattes




> On Nov 10, 2023, at 10:55 AM, Ken Hurd  wrote:
> 
> Hello LincolnTalkers,
> 
> During the discussion on the Zoom forum hosted by the HCAWG on Wednesday 
> evening, I mentioned the recently released report on the history of 
> exclusionary zoning in the Boston area.  And also, for those of you who 
> couldn’t stay to see it following the Wednesday morning forum at Town Hall, 
> below is the link to hear the presentation sponsored by The Boston Foundation.
> 
> Unless we know our history, it is known that history has a tendency to repeat 
> itself. With respect to objections raised to the options offered by the 
> Housing Choice Working Group, I do hope that current residents can follow the 
> example of earlier Lincoln leaders from the 1970’s who worked with, rather 
> than against, the 40B mandate from the state to provide more affordable 
> housing.  That, and their efforts to preserve land in a way that could be 
> shared with others, made Lincoln a model community that attracted national 
> attention.  
> 
> With the Housing Choice Act, there is no less an opportunity to combine our 
> responsibility to provide more housing in the greater Boston region with 
> helping to revive the ailing Lincoln Station area.  After all, given our 
> current manner of approving development around Lincoln Station and the fact 
> that there has been no interest by developers in doing so for the past 
> eighteen years, even with more favorable economic conditions, why should we 
> expect anything different other than more empty spaces available for lease 
> going forward?
> 
> I urge us to affirm the work of the Working Group to fulfill the spirit of 
> the Housing Choice Act by supporting Option C, including the rezoning of the 
> mall, to address this conundrum.
> 
> Here is the link to the report:
> 
> https://www.tbf.org/news-and-insights/videos/2023/november/exclusionary-by-design-20231108
> 
> Respectfully,
> Ken Hurd
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
> Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/.
> Change your subscription settings at 
> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
> 

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