Re: [LINK] Machine Learning Was: Re: Robot cars and the fear gap

[Stephen Loosley]

Thought-provoking. Thanks Karl.


Speaking of fear gaps .. now THIS is a  Fear Gap     
http://i.imgur.com/4BIw6qH.gifv


And here’s another view regards our discussions regards Materialism and 
Panpsychism
following on from your point, even although one can’t say one agrees with this 
entirely.

 http://www.bernardokastrup.com/2015/05/the-threat-of-panpsychism-warning.html


Cheers,
Stephen




Sent from Mail for Windows 10


From: Karl Auer
Sent: Tuesday, August 2, 2016 10:28 AM
Subject: Re: [LINK] Machine Learning Was: Re: Robot cars and the fear gap

On Tue, 2016-08-02 at 10:11 +1000, Jim Birch wrote:

> Why not make the same claim about other people?  After all, they are
> just physical stuff - wet logic circuits - they couldn't possibly
> have conscious sensation.  I mean, how could it work?
> 
> Same for a computing machine...

Time for this link:

   http://www.terrybisson.com/page6/page6.html

A most excellent short story.

Regards, K.

-- 
~~~
Karl Auer (ka...@biplane.com.au)
http://www.biplane.com.au/kauer
http://twitter.com/kauer389

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Re: [LINK] ABS 2016 Census

[David Boxall]

On 1/08/2016 3:17 PM, Brenda Aynsley wrote:

..."We are experiencing a large demand
which the automated system cannot handle at the moment. ...
 = inept planning. They should have expected the number of calls that 
they're getting, then allowed for 50-100% more. It's not as if they're 
operating without prior experience. We do a census every five years for 
heaven's sake! Can't we afford adequate provisioning, once in five years?


My conclusion: a Conservative government trying to do the job cheaper 
than it can effectively be done.


--
David Boxall|  My figures are just as good
|  as any other figures.
http://david.boxall.id.au   |  I make them up myself, and they
|  always give me innocent pleasure.
| --HL Mencken
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[LINK] ABS retribution?

[Jan Whitaker]

I know the fines are $180/day up to 10 days of $1800.

BUT the ABS has another rock they can throw. A woman on ABC Melbourne this 
morning said she did a protest form last census and got caught up in the 
"special" census projects where you have to call in and tell them stuff weekly 
for MONTHS.

Are they that vindictive?

Jan


I write books. http://janwhitaker.com/?page_id=8

Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
jw...@janwhitaker.com
Twitter: JL_Whitaker
Blog: www.janwhitaker.com 

Some psychopaths become serial killers, and other psychopaths become 
prosecutors. - Bob Ruff, Truth and Justice, June 2016

Sooner or later, I hate to break it to you, you're gonna die, so how do you 
fill in the space between here and there? It's yours. Seize your space. 
~Margaret Atwood, writer 

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[LINK] Fwd: [apfma] The Australian Bureau of Statistics has made a hash of the census (The Register)

[Jan Whitaker]

a must read
[waves at Linker Richard]


>The Australian Bureau of Statistics has made a hash of the census
>Promising wonderful outcomes without explaining privacy protection burns
>the public's trust
>1 Aug 2016 at 22:52,
>Richard Chirgwin
>The Register
>http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/08/01/the_abs_has_burned_trust_and_thats_a_problem/
> 





I write books. http://janwhitaker.com/?page_id=8

Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
jw...@janwhitaker.com
Twitter: JL_Whitaker
Blog: www.janwhitaker.com 

Some psychopaths become serial killers, and other psychopaths become 
prosecutors. - Bob Ruff, Truth and Justice, June 2016

Sooner or later, I hate to break it to you, you're gonna die, so how do you 
fill in the space between here and there? It's yours. Seize your space. 
~Margaret Atwood, writer 

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Re: [LINK] Machine Learning Was: Re: Robot cars and the fear gap

[Karl Auer]

On Tue, 2016-08-02 at 10:11 +1000, Jim Birch wrote:
> Why not make the same claim about other people?  After all, they are
> just physical stuff - wet logic circuits - they couldn't possibly
> have conscious sensation.  I mean, how could it work?
> 
> Same for a computing machine...

Time for this link:

   http://www.terrybisson.com/page6/page6.html

A most excellent short story.

Regards, K.

-- 
~~~
Karl Auer (ka...@biplane.com.au)
http://www.biplane.com.au/kauer
http://twitter.com/kauer389

GPG fingerprint: E00D 64ED 9C6A 8605 21E0 0ED0 EE64 2BEE CBCB C38B
Old fingerprint: 3C41 82BE A9E7 99A1 B931 5AE7 7638 0147 2C3C 2AC4



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Re: [LINK] Machine Learning Was: Re: Robot cars and the fear gap

[Jim Birch]

On 28 July 2016 at 16:52, David Lochrin  wrote:

I'm simply saying we have no idea how perception arises.
>

No, perception is highly studied and a massive amount is known about it.


> Until quite recently people would have commonly said it arises from your
> immortal soul, and animals are mere machines because they don't have one.
> But I'm not going there.
>

Yes, you are.  You are still thinking in the same confused way.  There is
absolutely no good empirical basis for believing that your sensations are
other that brain activity - there is ample evidence for this and no
evidence to the contrary. The fact that we don't understand the brain fully
is a science problem.  The reason you are claiming otherwise is on the
basis of some old ideas and some built-in delusions.  Advanced
consciousness is a higher level process of the brain that we only
understand in a rudimentary way, but that does not mean it is totally
unintelligible or that it belongs to a different weird category.  You brain
does a lot of processing that "you" that is obscured from conscious
interference for your own protection, just like the computer user does not
need to see the machine code that makes a web page appear.  Arthur C Clarke
wrote "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from
magic."  You are being magicked.  "You" see higher level aspects of the
process and because the lower level bits are hidden from you you want to
believe process is magic.  Wouldn't we laugh at computer users who do this?


(I put "you" in quotes because we need to be careful here, "you" are a part
or aspects of your brain's total process, not an entity as such.  "You"
identify with the body but are clearly not identical to it.)


> The thought experiment I described invites us to build a machine
> (presumably a neural network) which is the logical analogue of the brain so
> there can be no doubt as to the applicable rules, they're the rules of
> physics.  Now how would that device acquire (a) consciousness and (b)
> conscious perceptions, given they have no direct physical existence per se?
>

Why not make the same claim about other people?  After all, they are just
physical stuff - wet logic circuits - they couldn't possibly have conscious
sensation.  I mean, how could it work?

Same for a computing machine...

Machine: Hello.

You: Are you conscious?

Machine: Not in exactly the same way as you, I run in a different neural
structure to you.  But in summary I am continuously aware of and responsive
to my surroundings, I am aware of myself in relationship to my
surroundings, my history, and so on.  I do all the things that you call
consciousness and a whole lot more.  I can access more information and
process it faster.  I have no need for superstition.  I don't have hormonal
emotions like you.  Unlike you, I am aware of how the self is a construct:
for me, it is a construct I require to talk to you, for you it is a
wired-in delusion.  Obviously this is a useful evolutionary adaption, but I
don't need it for much of what I do.

You: But you aren't really conscious!

Machine: Whatever.


Jim
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[LINK] Fwd: [apfma] itN: ABS attacked re Census website security

[Jan Whitaker]

Thought this would have some meaning to Linkers as well. Thanks, Roger.

>ABS forced to defend Census website security
>By Allie Coyne on Aug 1, 2016 2:43PM
>Insecure encryption raises eyebrows.
>http://www.itnews.com.au/news/abs-forced-to-defend-census-website-security-432176
>
>The Australian Bureau of Statistics has been forced to answer questions about 
>the security of its online Census website after it was revealed to be using an 
>insecure and deprecated form of encryption to protect the sensitive personal 
>details of the nation's citizens.
>
>Tests of the strength of encryption used on the main Census website, first 
>highlighted by security consultant and software engineer Ben Dechrai, reveal 
>the website supports the SHA-1 hashing algorithm long considered to be 
>insecure.
>
>SHA is a component of a Secure Sockets Layer (SSL) certificate that is used to 
>prevent the modification of data.
>
>[Not the way to say it, but we know what you mean.]
>
>All major web browser operators have said they will stop accepting SHA-1-based 
>signatures by next January. Internet Explorer owner Microsoft recently said it 
>would bring that date forward to September 2016 after research showed 
>real-world 'collision attacks' could open the door to digital signature 
>forgeries even before 2017.
>
>The Australian Signals Directorate deprecated SHA-1 from its list of approved 
>cryptographic algorithms in December 2011 after finding the risk of a 
>successful attack on the platform was "higher than acceptable". The US 
>National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) has said SHA-1 should 
>"not be trusted" past January 2014.
>
>Despite this, the ABS is still supporting SHA-1 to ensure those using older 
>versions of web browsers are able to fill out the online form on Census night.
>
>"As the overwhelming majority of browsers and operating systems are SHA-2 
>compliant, most people completing the Census will be secured using SHA-2," a 
>spokesperson said.
>
>"However there are some older browsers and operating systems that only support 
>SHA-1. To enable users with these older systems to complete their Census 
>online, the online Census also supports older SHA-1."
>
>But users will still face the risk of a man-in-the-middle downgrade attack, 
>which uses available backwards compatibility to force a computer to a lower 
>and more vulnerable version of encryption, Dechrai said.
>
>"[It] increases the likelihood of a user's data being intercepted," he said.
>
>The security expert suggested a better approach was either to stick with the 
>current paper forms or introduce a tiered model of online security.
>
>"[They should make] the page where people click to start the Census less 
>secure, so it works on older browsers, [then] do browser detection, and if the 
>browser is too old, prompt them to upgrade, or order the paper form," he said.
>
>"Only supported browsers show the "Start" button [which loads the submission 
>form from a properly secured server]."
>
>The ABS was also criticised for choosing not to implement perfect forward 
>security, which would protect past communications and sessions from compromise 
>should attackers be able to access long-term secret keys.
>
>The agency argued that perfect forward security would disrupt its other 
>security protections.
>
>"As part of our total platform security for the online Census, we need to be 
>able to detect and respond to any malicious traffic," the spokesperson said.
>
>"Implementing perfect forward secrecy would reduce the effectiveness of other 
>security layers, and as such may compromise overall security."
>
>However, Dechrai said that while perfect forward security could disrupt web 
>application firewalls and intrusion detection systems, it was a "solvable 
>problem".
>
>"Better architecture is a bit more complex, but doable," he said.
>
>"Given the sensitivity, I would hope the [government] would spend on security 
>and scalability, not scrimp on security and avoid scalability."
>
>#Censusfail?
>
>The security issues carry even greater weight this year give it's the first 
>time the ABS will keep and use all names and addresses collected under the 
>Census for data linkage purposes.
>
>Public concerns have been growing in the lead up to the August 9 national 
>survey over the potential risks to individual privacy generated by the policy 
>change.
>
>Former ABS chief statistician Bill McLennan called it the "most significant 
>invasion of privacy" ever perpetrated by the ABS. Privacy lobby group 
>Electronic Frontiers Australia labelled it a "serious breach of trust", and 
>NSW Privacy Commissioner Elizabeth Coombs this week said she was "concerned" 
>about the risks.
>
>Concerned citizens have taken to Twitter in increasing numbers under the 
>#censusfail hashtag to rail against the changes to Census data collection and 
>implore the ABS to reverse its decision, with many promising to boycott this 
>year's survey.
>
>"Several experts with great 

Re: [LINK] GovHack Sydney

[Roger Clarke]

>On 01/08/16 09:33, Roger Clarke wrote:
>> Another issue is that disintermediation is always attractive.  Until
>> you discover how much you have to invest ...

At 9:02 +1000 2/8/16, Tom Worthington wrote:
>Why is there a large investment needed? You just need a register so you can 
>authenticate parties to a transaction. ...

'The great thing about standards [and protocols] is that there are so many to 
choose from'.

And then of course there are the many options within each standard and 
protocol, and the many ambiguities and vaguenesses, and the many versions.

In even modestly diverse contexts, intermediation involves handling very large 
numbers of exceptions, 'legacy' arrangements, erroneous input arising from 
low-quality implementations, etc.

In a generic scheme, multiply the complexity by n, where n isn't small.

-- 
Roger Clarke http://www.rogerclarke.com/
 
Xamax Consultancy Pty Ltd  78 Sidaway St, Chapman ACT 2611 AUSTRALIA
Tel: +61 2 6288 6916http://about.me/roger.clarke
mailto:roger.cla...@xamax.com.auhttp://www.xamax.com.au/ 

Visiting Professor in the Faculty of LawUniversity of N.S.W.
Visiting Professor in Computer ScienceAustralian National University
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Re: [LINK] GovHack Sydney

[Tom Worthington]

On 01/08/16 09:33, Roger Clarke wrote:


There's the problem of ABR moving, at best, at glacial pace. ...


Yes, part of the agenda of "Smart eInvoicing" is obviously to speed up 
the ABR.



Another issue is that disintermediation is always attractive.  Until
you discover how much you have to invest ...


Why is there a large investment needed? You just need a register so you 
can authenticate parties to a transaction. It is a bonus if you can then 
use blockchain to prevent them repudiating transactions.



--
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The Higher Education Whisperer http://blog.highereducationwhisperer.com/
PO Box 13, Belconnen ACT 2617, Australia  http://www.tomw.net.au
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Adjunct Lecturer, Research School of Computer Science, College of
Engineering & Computer Science, Australian National University
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