Re: [LINK] The black hole image came thanks to student Katie Bouman, half a tonne of hard drives and a big coincidence - Science News - ABC News
On Fri, 12 Apr. 2019, 1:48 pm David, wrote: > On Friday, 12 April 2019 12:52:49 AEST Roger Clarke wrote: > > > If the latter, I'd argue that we apply some scepticism to research > proposals, in the immunotherapy ... > > > > But my point is that we expect payback on public investment. > > So what sorts of "payback" would you find acceptable for (a) research into > General Relativity and (b) immunotherapies? > Wi-Fi. $165m+ Narelle > ___ Link mailing list Link@mailman.anu.edu.au http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link
Re: [LINK] The black hole image came thanks to student Katie Bouman, half a tonne of hard drives and a big coincidence - Science News - ABC News
On Friday, 12 April 2019 12:52:49 AEST Roger Clarke wrote: > If the latter, I'd argue that we apply some scepticism to research proposals, > in the immunotherapy area as in all other areas, and make people jump through > hoops, initially give them only small amounts of funding, and only give them > more as positive outcomes are demonstrated. > > Okay, that's an over-simplification, not least because the human fear of > death puts rose-coloured glasses on people when it comes to medical research > proposals; and research funding is subject to bandwagon effects, etc. > > But my point is that we expect payback on public investment. So what sorts of "payback" would you find acceptable for (a) research into General Relativity and (b) immunotherapies? David ___ Link mailing list Link@mailman.anu.edu.au http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link
Re: [LINK] The black hole image came thanks to student Katie Bouman, half a tonne of hard drives and a big coincidence - Science News - ABC News
Just one query. On 12/4/19 11:24 am, David wrote: ... [lots of interesting stuff ...] ... General Relativity and immunotherapies for cancer come from the same intellectual tradition - we don't get one without the other. Are you proposing that General Relativity Theory is a necessary precursor to immunotherapies for cancer, or just a fellow traveller? If the former, I'll do a Pauline and say 'please explain'. If the latter, I'd argue that we apply some scepticism to research proposals, in the immunotherapy area as in all other areas, and make people jump through hoops, initially give them only small amounts of funding, and only give them more as positive outcomes are demonstrated. Okay, that's an over-simplification, not least because the human fear of death puts rose-coloured glasses on people when it comes to medical research proposals; and research funding is subject to bandwagon effects, etc. But my point is that we expect payback on public investment. It's one thing to fund theoretical physicists sitting in offices, using whiteboards, and using their share of cheap data-processing facilities. It's quite another to build dedicated facilities at vast expense, and burn large amounts of energy and people's salaries, supporting alice-in-wonderland high-science. -- Roger Clarkemailto:roger.cla...@xamax.com.au T: +61 2 6288 6916 http://www.xamax.com.au http://www.rogerclarke.com Xamax Consultancy Pty Ltd 78 Sidaway St, Chapman ACT 2611 AUSTRALIA Visiting Professor in the Faculty of LawUniversity of N.S.W. Visiting Professor in Computer ScienceAustralian National University ___ Link mailing list Link@mailman.anu.edu.au http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link
Re: [LINK] The black hole image came thanks to student Katie Bouman, half a tonne of hard drives and a big coincidence - Science News - ABC News
On Friday, 12 April 2019 10:04:54 AEST Roger Clarke wrote: > There's been a vast amount of data gathered, which has then been subjected to > a massive amount of manipulation, based on models that are based on a series > of assumptions, in order to come up with a consolidated set of data that's > thought to represent a reality 'a long, long time ago in a galaxy far away', > which has then been rendered by graphic artists in order to provide images > that reflect longstanding traditions of what light-shows in space ought to > look like. And that's exactly how we build an image of the world right in front of us. Photons strike cells on the retina which cause electro-chemical pulses to propagate along nerve fibres to the brain, and the pulse frequency is directly related to the intensity of stimulation. (Different aspects of the image, such as colour, outline & depth are processed in different areas of the brain too.) The same goes for our other senses. The brain then constructs a perceived representation of the world, with blue sky, green grass, and red fire-engines out of nothing more than a lot of electro-chemical activity and its current neural state. Purely as a thought experiment and on the basis of what we know now, this could all be reproduced in silicon. If you then asked an electrical engineer whether that device had perceptions they'd say no, it's just a lot of hardware which generates heat. So how does our perceived world relate to "reality"? The answer is that we have no idea. There are no absolutes. We have to start with what our human condition. If our image of a black hole is derived from "a vast amount of data gathered, which has then been subjected to a massive amount of manipulation, based on models that are based on a series of assumptions, in order to come up with a consolidated set of data that's thought to represent a reality" then that's perfectly consistent with the human condition. > Vast resources are wasted pursuing the alice-in-wonderland > sub-atomic-particle game. (Encounter error-factor, postulate another > backward-spinning entity with negative weight and both positive and negative > charge depending on whether the cat is dead, alive or both, etc. Wait until > media have forgotten the last round. Do it again. Ad infinitum). > > Now we're wasting vast resources on vastly backwards-looking examinations of > background noise, pretending that we'll get to see what the Big Bang looked > like. Or not, as the case may be. I can't agree!! Where would our curiosity & imagination be without General Relativity and a search for black holes? In any case General Relativity and immunotherapies for cancer come from the same intellectual tradition - we don't get one without the other. David L. ___ Link mailing list Link@mailman.anu.edu.au http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link
Re: [LINK] The black hole image came thanks to student Katie Bouman, half a tonne of hard drives and a big coincidence - Science News - ABC News
On 12/04/2019 10:04 am, Roger Clarke wrote: > On 12/4/19 8:28 am, JLWhitaker wrote: >> Thank goodness they used planes and harddrives, otherwise they would >> have REALLY broken the Internet!! >> https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2019-04-11/black-hole-event-horizon-telescope-five-things-you-might-miss/10993112 > > > Am I the only one shaking my head at the naivete of the media in > relation to this beat-up? The data was from radio telescopes. To say it is a photograph is definitely a bit of a stretch. The data has been processed to buggery. It probably has some scientific value, however, most of which is publicity. -- Regards brd Bernard Robertson-Dunn Canberra Australia email: b...@iimetro.com.au ___ Link mailing list Link@mailman.anu.edu.au http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link
Re: [LINK] The black hole image came thanks to student Katie Bouman, half a tonne of hard drives and a big coincidence - Science News - ABC News
On 12/4/19 8:28 am, JLWhitaker wrote: Thank goodness they used planes and harddrives, otherwise they would have REALLY broken the Internet!! https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2019-04-11/black-hole-event-horizon-telescope-five-things-you-might-miss/10993112 Am I the only one shaking my head at the naivete of the media in relation to this beat-up? I like the idea of science, because it calls for scepticism, e.g. 1. Q. What colour is a black hole? A. Black (or for colour theorists, 'it doesn't have any') 2. Q1. If all energy in a big region is sucked into a small region, what electromagnetic signals will escape from it? A1. None Q2. What colour does the human body interpret if the eye receives no electromagnetic signals? A2. Black (or for colour theorists, 'none') Meanwhile, the claim that this is the first 'photograph' of 'a black hole' could only be true if we take an enormously liberal interpretation of what a 'photograph' is. There's been a vast amount of data gathered, which has then been subjected to a massive amount of manipulation, based on models that are based on a series of assumptions, in order to come up with a consolidated set of data that's thought to represent a reality 'a long, long time ago in a galaxy far away', which has then been rendered by graphic artists in order to provide images that reflect longstanding traditions of what light-shows in space ought to look like. Vast resources are wasted pursuing the alice-in-wonderland sub-atomic-particle game. (Encounter error-factor, postulate another backward-spinning entity with negative weight and both positive and negative charge depending on whether the cat is dead, alive or both, etc. Wait until media have forgotten the last round. Do it again. Ad infinitum). Now we're wasting vast resources on vastly backwards-looking examinations of background noise, pretending that we'll get to see what the Big Bang looked like. Or not, as the case may be. -- Roger Clarkemailto:roger.cla...@xamax.com.au T: +61 2 6288 6916 http://www.xamax.com.au http://www.rogerclarke.com Xamax Consultancy Pty Ltd 78 Sidaway St, Chapman ACT 2611 AUSTRALIA Visiting Professor in the Faculty of LawUniversity of N.S.W. Visiting Professor in Computer ScienceAustralian National University ___ Link mailing list Link@mailman.anu.edu.au http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link
[LINK] The black hole image came thanks to student Katie Bouman, half a tonne of hard drives and a big coincidence - Science News - ABC News
Thank goodness they used planes and harddrives, otherwise they would have REALLY broken the Internet!! https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2019-04-11/black-hole-event-horizon-telescope-five-things-you-might-miss/10993112 Jan -- Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jw...@janwhitaker.com Twitter: @JL_Whitaker Blog: www.janwhitaker.com Sooner or later, I hate to break it to you, you're gonna die, so how do you fill in the space between here and there? It's yours. Seize your space. ~Margaret Atwood, writer _ __ _ ___ Link mailing list Link@mailman.anu.edu.au http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link
Re: [LINK] A simple way to curb the trolls – end their anonymity
On Thu, 2019-04-11 at 10:30 +, Stephen Loosley wrote: > There’s a simple way to curb the trolls – end their anonymity "Every problem has a solution that is easy, simple and wrong." Lots of people who haven't really thought about things think there are all sorts of simple solutions to problems like this. If we are lucky, they are people nobody pays attention to and their ill-considered musings have little effect. If we are unlucky they are a respected personage who has decided to wing it outside their field of expertise and they get taken seriously, causing no end of trouble. Short answer to that particular bit of drivel is that it isn't only "doctors, teachers, soldiers and so on" that may need the protection of anonymity. There are many, many more who do. It is unjust to silence all the people who legitimately need anonymity just to silence the few who abuse it. Regards, K. -- ~~~ Karl Auer (ka...@biplane.com.au) http://www.biplane.com.au/kauer http://twitter.com/kauer389 GPG fingerprint: 8D08 9CAA 649A AFEF E862 062A 2E97 42D4 A2A0 616D Old fingerprint: A0CD 28F0 10BE FC21 C57C 67C1 19A6 83A4 9B0B 1D75 ___ Link mailing list Link@mailman.anu.edu.au http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link
[LINK] A simple way to curb the trolls – end their anonymity
There’s a simple way to curb the trolls – end their anonymity By Adrian Chiles Thu 11 Apr 2019 https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/apr/11/simple-way-to-curb-trolls-end-anonymity-adrian-chiles Free speech allows people to have their say, within reason, but it doesn’t guarantee their right to hide their identity You meet the most fascinating people in football. At the English Football League awards this week, I ended up in the hotel bar with an eminent figure in the football industry, who is no less eminent in his field of work outside the game. We got talking about social media. He lamented the damage that relentless trolling does to the game. My friend has a simple solution: do away with online anonymity. He advocates forcing social media companies to make those who use their platforms do so as themselves, their identities authenticated by means of bank account details or whatever other means it takes. I am no great believer in the existence of simple solutions for anything, but this seems like a good start to me. Looking at a definition of free speech on Amnesty International’s website, I see nothing about the right to anonymity. To me this says that you have the right, within reason, to opine as you see fit, and that is no small thing. But you should do so, as far as possible, in your own name. Plainly, whistleblowers and those with jobs on the line in sensitive areas – doctors, teachers, soldiers and so on – need some kind of pass on this one. But if the trolls want to troll, it seems a fair bargain to demand that they put their born names to their bile. It might even protect us all from the temptation to give vent to the very worst thoughts we all (well, me anyway) have hatching in the darkness of our souls. Otherwise, we would end up not being true to our social selves. But where does a human’s true-self lie? I hope it’s the version with that human’s name on it. If it’s not, we are all doomed. Cheers, Stephen ___ Link mailing list Link@mailman.anu.edu.au http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link
