Re: [linux] Follow up on last night's Twitter / Mastodon talk
On Sun, 13 Nov 2022, John Brooks wrote: I wish. Unfortunately, it's the users that make it the toxic cesspit that it is. They'll just move somewhere else and create a new toxic cesspit. Disagree. There are many excellently informed and constructive posters on twitter, both locally and worldwide. That said, I am not a fan of surveillance capitalists and generally do not engage with them. To unsubscribe send a blank message to linux+unsubscr...@linux-ottawa.org To get help send a blank message to linux+h...@linux-ottawa.org To visit the archives: https://lists.linux-ottawa.org
Re: [linux] Follow up on last night's Twitter / Mastodon talk
I wish. Unfortunately, it's the users that make it the toxic cesspit that it is. They'll just move somewhere else and create a new toxic cesspit. On 11/13/22 13:13, James wrote: If Twitter goes bankrupt then the world will be better off. To unsubscribe send a blank message to linux+unsubscr...@linux-ottawa.org To get help send a blank message to linux+h...@linux-ottawa.org To visit the archives: https://lists.linux-ottawa.org
Re: [linux] Follow up on last night's Twitter / Mastodon talk
If Twitter goes bankrupt then the world will be better off. To unsubscribe send a blank message to linux+unsubscr...@linux-ottawa.org To get help send a blank message to linux+h...@linux-ottawa.org To visit the archives: https://lists.linux-ottawa.org
Re: [linux] Follow up on last night's Twitter / Mastodon talk
On 2022-11-06 21:04, Richard Guy Briggs wrote: > On 2022-11-04 15:21, Richard Guy Briggs wrote: > > On 2022-11-04 15:00, Brett Delmage wrote: > > > On Fri, 4 Nov 2022, Richard Guy Briggs wrote: > > > >On 2022-11-04 13:50, James wrote: > > > >>Nov. 4, 2022 10:25:49 Richard Guy Briggs : > > > >>>How does paying for the account prove any trustworthiness? > > > >> > > > >>It is only to make money. > > > > > > > >That was my assumption, because I don't see the connection between the > > > >two. But it could also be used as a weeder, hedging that it will result > > > >in a certain distribution of payers and those who care about the status > > > >of that checkmark. > > > > > > or being more trustworthy. > > > > Maybe statistically-so, but certainly no guarantee. > > > > > Right now a Twitter verified account (blue Verified badge) has very > > > specific > > > requirements to obtain which are specific to the class of account: > > > > > > https://help.twitter.com/en/managing-your-account/about-twitter-verified-accounts > > > > > > A monthly payment requirement may get rid of many trolls and bots, which > > > are > > > certainly a problem on almost every social media. > > > > Yes. It may also get rid of many legitimate users. Who is to say where > > this balance lies? > > I can't say I trust MSNBC to be unbiased here (see > https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/msnbc/ ) but here's a perspective that > supports the idea that identities/trust can be purchased and that the > value of this purchase may not have been financial... > > Elon Musk Appears In Over His Head With Purchase Of Twitter > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2GfLxTzt7I How's this working out? Here are some of the 'verified' fake Twitter accounts overtaking the platform https://www.ctvnews.ca/business/here-are-some-of-the-verified-fake-twitter-accounts-overtaking-the-platform-1.6150691 > > slainte mhath, RGB > > slainte mhath, RGB slainte mhath, RGB -- Richard Guy Briggs -- ~\-- ~\ -- \___ o \@ @Ride yer bike! Ottawa, ON, CANADA -- Lo_>__M__\\/\%__\\/\% Vote! -- _GTVS6#790__(*)__(*)(*)(*)_ To unsubscribe send a blank message to linux+unsubscr...@linux-ottawa.org To get help send a blank message to linux+h...@linux-ottawa.org To visit the archives: https://lists.linux-ottawa.org
Re: [linux] Follow up on last night's Twitter / Mastodon talk
On 2022-11-07 13:54, Brett Delmage wrote: > Richard Guy Briggs wrote: > >Gold cannot be eaten. > > Not true. > > How Do They Make Gold And Silver Safe To Eat? > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHiPoxLe3yw > > More stupid examples: > https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=edible+gold+leaf We all need trace quantities of many minerals to survive. While you might be absolutely correct, you have completely missed the point. Gold will not sustain your diet. > Tug Williams wrote: > >Regarding gold, though it can be misplaced > > Gold belongs on electrical connections, not 'misplaced' in the sanitary > sewer. Agreed. slainte mhath, RGB -- Richard Guy Briggs -- ~\-- ~\ -- \___ o \@ @Ride yer bike! Ottawa, ON, CANADA -- Lo_>__M__\\/\%__\\/\% Vote! -- _GTVS6#790__(*)__(*)(*)(*)_ To unsubscribe send a blank message to linux+unsubscr...@linux-ottawa.org To get help send a blank message to linux+h...@linux-ottawa.org To visit the archives: https://lists.linux-ottawa.org
Re: [linux] Follow up on last night's Twitter / Mastodon talk
Richard Guy Briggs wrote: Gold cannot be eaten. Not true. How Do They Make Gold And Silver Safe To Eat? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHiPoxLe3yw More stupid examples: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=edible+gold+leaf Tug Williams wrote: Regarding gold, though it can be misplaced Gold belongs on electrical connections, not 'misplaced' in the sanitary sewer. To unsubscribe send a blank message to linux+unsubscr...@linux-ottawa.org To get help send a blank message to linux+h...@linux-ottawa.org To visit the archives: https://lists.linux-ottawa.org
Re: [linux] Follow up on last night's Twitter / Mastodon talk
On 2022-11-04 15:21, Richard Guy Briggs wrote: > On 2022-11-04 15:00, Brett Delmage wrote: > > On Fri, 4 Nov 2022, Richard Guy Briggs wrote: > > >On 2022-11-04 13:50, James wrote: > > >>Nov. 4, 2022 10:25:49 Richard Guy Briggs : > > >>>How does paying for the account prove any trustworthiness? > > >> > > >>It is only to make money. > > > > > >That was my assumption, because I don't see the connection between the > > >two. But it could also be used as a weeder, hedging that it will result > > >in a certain distribution of payers and those who care about the status > > >of that checkmark. > > > > or being more trustworthy. > > Maybe statistically-so, but certainly no guarantee. > > > Right now a Twitter verified account (blue Verified badge) has very specific > > requirements to obtain which are specific to the class of account: > > > > https://help.twitter.com/en/managing-your-account/about-twitter-verified-accounts > > > > A monthly payment requirement may get rid of many trolls and bots, which are > > certainly a problem on almost every social media. > > Yes. It may also get rid of many legitimate users. Who is to say where > this balance lies? I can't say I trust MSNBC to be unbiased here (see https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/msnbc/ ) but here's a perspective that supports the idea that identities/trust can be purchased and that the value of this purchase may not have been financial... Elon Musk Appears In Over His Head With Purchase Of Twitter https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2GfLxTzt7I > slainte mhath, RGB slainte mhath, RGB -- Richard Guy Briggs -- ~\-- ~\ -- \___ o \@ @Ride yer bike! Ottawa, ON, CANADA -- Lo_>__M__\\/\%__\\/\% Vote! -- _GTVS6#790__(*)__(*)(*)(*)_ To unsubscribe send a blank message to linux+unsubscr...@linux-ottawa.org To get help send a blank message to linux+h...@linux-ottawa.org To visit the archives: https://lists.linux-ottawa.org
Re: [linux] Follow up on last night's Twitter / Mastodon talk
On 2022-11-04 15:56, Tug Williams wrote: > > On 04/11/2022 15:24, Richard Guy Briggs wrote: > >Bitcoin or dollars are only valuable because enough people think they > >are. Gold does have other uses. > > Bitcoin are valuable only because enough people think they are. > > Dollars have value because millions of legal contracts require people to pay > or receive them in lieu of goods or services, so their value is real, backed > by the goods and services of our complex society. Dollars are an IOU from > society. When was the last time you were able to barter a few lines of code > for your weekly groceries? Inflation puts the lie to that. In a society with runaway inflation, barter is more useful. > Regarding gold, though it can be misplaced, it cannot be destroyed, at least > not by you or me. > > But I think we're drifting further and further away from Twitter / Mastodon > here... We're talking about value, any of which is ultimately perceived rather than real. Gold cannot be eaten. slainte mhath, RGB -- Richard Guy Briggs -- ~\-- ~\ -- \___ o \@ @Ride yer bike! Ottawa, ON, CANADA -- Lo_>__M__\\/\%__\\/\% Vote! -- _GTVS6#790__(*)__(*)(*)(*)_ To unsubscribe send a blank message to linux+unsubscr...@linux-ottawa.org To get help send a blank message to linux+h...@linux-ottawa.org To visit the archives: https://lists.linux-ottawa.org
Re: [linux] Follow up on last night's Twitter / Mastodon talk
On 04/11/2022 15:24, Richard Guy Briggs wrote: Bitcoin or dollars are only valuable because enough people think they are. Gold does have other uses. Bitcoin are valuable only because enough people think they are. Dollars have value because millions of legal contracts require people to pay or receive them in lieu of goods or services, so their value is real, backed by the goods and services of our complex society. Dollars are an IOU from society. When was the last time you were able to barter a few lines of code for your weekly groceries? Regarding gold, though it can be misplaced, it cannot be destroyed, at least not by you or me. But I think we're drifting further and further away from Twitter / Mastodon here... To unsubscribe send a blank message to linux+unsubscr...@linux-ottawa.org To get help send a blank message to linux+h...@linux-ottawa.org To visit the archives: https://lists.linux-ottawa.org
Re: [linux] Follow up on last night's Twitter / Mastodon talk
On 2022-11-04 15:09, Brett Delmage wrote: > On Fri, 4 Nov 2022, Richard Guy Briggs wrote: > >I'm not saying [twitter] isn't but why was it valued so high? (That's > >rhetorical.) Even if it loses money, it is still likely be quite valuable > >to Musk as a tool to facilitate other goals. > > Any social media property/corporation is only valuable as long as bazillion > target users are engaged, giving up their privacy, and reading ads or > content that the owner wants to influence them with. > > And users are free to trivially disengage or leave, as they have on other > social media in the past. Bitcoin or dollars are only valuable because enough people think they are. Gold does have other uses. > Nothing else matters. > > Of course U.S. government TLAs may value a social media property which has > bazillion users spilling every moment of their lives and being geo-tracked. > Who's to say an agency doesn't have a hand in the current twitter situation? That is absolutely possible. slainte mhath, RGB -- Richard Guy Briggs -- ~\-- ~\ -- \___ o \@ @Ride yer bike! Ottawa, ON, CANADA -- Lo_>__M__\\/\%__\\/\% Vote! -- _GTVS6#790__(*)__(*)(*)(*)_ To unsubscribe send a blank message to linux+unsubscr...@linux-ottawa.org To get help send a blank message to linux+h...@linux-ottawa.org To visit the archives: https://lists.linux-ottawa.org
Re: [linux] Follow up on last night's Twitter / Mastodon talk
On 2022-11-04 15:00, Brett Delmage wrote: > On Fri, 4 Nov 2022, Richard Guy Briggs wrote: > > >On 2022-11-04 13:50, James wrote: > >>Nov. 4, 2022 10:25:49 Richard Guy Briggs : > >>>How does paying for the account prove any trustworthiness? > >> > >>It is only to make money. > > > >That was my assumption, because I don't see the connection between the > >two. But it could also be used as a weeder, hedging that it will result > >in a certain distribution of payers and those who care about the status > >of that checkmark. > > or being more trustworthy. Maybe statistically-so, but certainly no guarantee. > Right now a Twitter verified account (blue Verified badge) has very specific > requirements to obtain which are specific to the class of account: > > https://help.twitter.com/en/managing-your-account/about-twitter-verified-accounts > > A monthly payment requirement may get rid of many trolls and bots, which are > certainly a problem on almost every social media. Yes. It may also get rid of many legitimate users. Who is to say where this balance lies? > I do not see how Mastodon is better than this at all. Does it have any web > of trust like PGP/GPG signed keys? It would not be any worse than current email systems. Depending on the size of the domain in terms of number of users, and reputation of the domain, you can choose to trust a domain more than others. > Won't Mastodon be overrun by Big Domain Name owners who already have name > recognition of the domain part of the account handle? e.g. microsoft.com? But this is the beauty of federation. It delegates that authority and reputation. Smaller communities tend to be more accountable to each other. Do you trust email from @gmail.com? > What is stopping *anyone* from setting up a "Linux Ottawa" or "OCLUG" domain > on Mastodon and abusing it? (the only effective remedy that I am aware of > for domain squatting is trademark law and protection). That is already a problem for email and is already dealt with in terms of reputation and trademark law. slainte mhath, RGB -- Richard Guy Briggs -- ~\-- ~\ -- \___ o \@ @Ride yer bike! Ottawa, ON, CANADA -- Lo_>__M__\\/\%__\\/\% Vote! -- _GTVS6#790__(*)__(*)(*)(*)_ To unsubscribe send a blank message to linux+unsubscr...@linux-ottawa.org To get help send a blank message to linux+h...@linux-ottawa.org To visit the archives: https://lists.linux-ottawa.org
Re: [linux] Follow up on last night's Twitter / Mastodon talk
On Fri, 4 Nov 2022, Richard Guy Briggs wrote: I'm not saying [twitter] isn't but why was it valued so high? (That's rhetorical.) Even if it loses money, it is still likely be quite valuable to Musk as a tool to facilitate other goals. Any social media property/corporation is only valuable as long as bazillion target users are engaged, giving up their privacy, and reading ads or content that the owner wants to influence them with. And users are free to trivially disengage or leave, as they have on other social media in the past. Nothing else matters. Of course U.S. government TLAs may value a social media property which has bazillion users spilling every moment of their lives and being geo-tracked. Who's to say an agency doesn't have a hand in the current twitter situation? To unsubscribe send a blank message to linux+unsubscr...@linux-ottawa.org To get help send a blank message to linux+h...@linux-ottawa.org To visit the archives: https://lists.linux-ottawa.org
Re: [linux] Follow up on last night's Twitter / Mastodon talk
On Fri, 4 Nov 2022, Richard Guy Briggs wrote: On 2022-11-04 13:50, James wrote: Nov. 4, 2022 10:25:49 Richard Guy Briggs : How does paying for the account prove any trustworthiness? It is only to make money. That was my assumption, because I don't see the connection between the two. But it could also be used as a weeder, hedging that it will result in a certain distribution of payers and those who care about the status of that checkmark. or being more trustworthy. Right now a Twitter verified account (blue Verified badge) has very specific requirements to obtain which are specific to the class of account: https://help.twitter.com/en/managing-your-account/about-twitter-verified-accounts A monthly payment requirement may get rid of many trolls and bots, which are certainly a problem on almost every social media. I do not see how Mastodon is better than this at all. Does it have any web of trust like PGP/GPG signed keys? Won't Mastodon be overrun by Big Domain Name owners who already have name recognition of the domain part of the account handle? e.g. microsoft.com? What is stopping *anyone* from setting up a "Linux Ottawa" or "OCLUG" domain on Mastodon and abusing it? (the only effective remedy that I am aware of for domain squatting is trademark law and protection). To unsubscribe send a blank message to linux+unsubscr...@linux-ottawa.org To get help send a blank message to linux+h...@linux-ottawa.org To visit the archives: https://lists.linux-ottawa.org
Re: [linux] Follow up on last night's Twitter / Mastodon talk
On 2022-11-04 13:50, James wrote: > Nov. 4, 2022 10:25:49 Richard Guy Briggs : > > How does paying for the account prove any trustworthiness? > > It is only to make money. That was my assumption, because I don't see the connection between the two. But it could also be used as a weeder, hedging that it will result in a certain distribution of payers and those who care about the status of that checkmark. > Isn't the platform losing money? I'm not saying it isn't but why was it valued so high? (That's rhetorical.) Even if it loses money, it is still likely be quite valuable to Musk as a tool to facilitate other goals. slainte mhath, RGB -- Richard Guy Briggs -- ~\-- ~\ -- \___ o \@ @Ride yer bike! Ottawa, ON, CANADA -- Lo_>__M__\\/\%__\\/\% Vote! -- _GTVS6#790__(*)__(*)(*)(*)_ To unsubscribe send a blank message to linux+unsubscr...@linux-ottawa.org To get help send a blank message to linux+h...@linux-ottawa.org To visit the archives: https://lists.linux-ottawa.org
Re: [linux] Follow up on last night's Twitter / Mastodon talk
Nov. 4, 2022 10:25:49 Richard Guy Briggs : > > How does paying for the account prove any > trustworthiness? It is only to make money. Isn't the platform losing money? To unsubscribe send a blank message to linux+unsubscr...@linux-ottawa.org To get help send a blank message to linux+h...@linux-ottawa.org To visit the archives: https://lists.linux-ottawa.org
Re: [linux] Follow up on last night's Twitter / Mastodon talk
https://wiki.linux-ottawa.org/doku.php?id=meetingpresentations2022 or you can go straight to the mastodon's mouth... https://docs.joinmastodon.org/ I'd recommend the mastodon's mouth. Tug On 04/11/2022 11:26, Katherine Mcmillan wrote: Hi Tug, Thank you very much for your presentation and for this follow-up - I found it fascinating. I am interested in finding ways to leverage Mastodon; I like the whole "fediverse" concept. Would you be able to share the slide with me where you broke down "federated" vs. "distributed" vs. "centralized"? If you have a couple of free minutes, I recommend checking out the song "Carmen" by Stromae. I agree that charging for the "blue ticks" makes them totally pointless. Do you think we should make a Mastodon for the OCLUG? Should we offer to make one for Twitter itself (does anyone here have a Twitter and can send Elon a message)? Cheers, Katie *From:* Tug Williams *Sent:* 04 November 2022 10:05 *To:* linux@linux-ottawa.org *Subject:* [linux] Follow up on last night's Twitter / Mastodon talk Attention : courriel externe | external email I heard an interesting item on the radio this morning, relating to the pending firing of lots of Twitter staff. There was an interview with a journalist (with a Twitter blue tick), who said she'd not be paying for the blue tick, because if it can be purchased, then it loses it's meaning of proving trustworthiness. Tug To unsubscribe send a blank message to linux+unsubscr...@linux-ottawa.org To get help send a blank message to linux+h...@linux-ottawa.org To visit the archives: https://lists.linux-ottawa.org
Re: [linux] Follow up on last night's Twitter / Mastodon talk
Hi Tug, Thank you very much for your presentation and for this follow-up - I found it fascinating. I am interested in finding ways to leverage Mastodon; I like the whole "fediverse" concept. Would you be able to share the slide with me where you broke down "federated" vs. "distributed" vs. "centralized"? If you have a couple of free minutes, I recommend checking out the song "Carmen" by Stromae. I agree that charging for the "blue ticks" makes them totally pointless. Do you think we should make a Mastodon for the OCLUG? Should we offer to make one for Twitter itself (does anyone here have a Twitter and can send Elon a message)? Cheers, Katie From: Tug Williams Sent: 04 November 2022 10:05 To: linux@linux-ottawa.org Subject: [linux] Follow up on last night's Twitter / Mastodon talk Attention : courriel externe | external email I heard an interesting item on the radio this morning, relating to the pending firing of lots of Twitter staff. There was an interview with a journalist (with a Twitter blue tick), who said she'd not be paying for the blue tick, because if it can be purchased, then it loses it's meaning of proving trustworthiness. Tug To unsubscribe send a blank message to linux+unsubscr...@linux-ottawa.org To get help send a blank message to linux+h...@linux-ottawa.org To visit the archives: https://lists.linux-ottawa.org
Re: [linux] Follow up on last night's Twitter / Mastodon talk
On 2022-11-04 10:05, Tug Williams wrote: > I heard an interesting item on the radio this morning, relating to the > pending firing of lots of Twitter staff. There was an interview with a > journalist (with a Twitter blue tick), who said she'd not be paying for the > blue tick, because if it can be purchased, then it loses it's meaning of > proving trustworthiness. Yeah, we were chuckling about that at the restaurant last night when you raised it on your slide... How does paying for the account prove any trustworthiness? > Tug slainte mhath, RGB -- Richard Guy Briggs -- ~\-- ~\ -- \___ o \@ @Ride yer bike! Ottawa, ON, CANADA -- Lo_>__M__\\/\%__\\/\% Vote! -- _GTVS6#790__(*)__(*)(*)(*)_ To unsubscribe send a blank message to linux+unsubscr...@linux-ottawa.org To get help send a blank message to linux+h...@linux-ottawa.org To visit the archives: https://lists.linux-ottawa.org
[linux] Follow up on last night's Twitter / Mastodon talk
I heard an interesting item on the radio this morning, relating to the pending firing of lots of Twitter staff. There was an interview with a journalist (with a Twitter blue tick), who said she'd not be paying for the blue tick, because if it can be purchased, then it loses it's meaning of proving trustworthiness. Tug To unsubscribe send a blank message to linux+unsubscr...@linux-ottawa.org To get help send a blank message to linux+h...@linux-ottawa.org To visit the archives: https://lists.linux-ottawa.org
