Re: [linux] Ottawa lack of IXP peering

[Allan Fields]

  * * *   
 
12  bdi982.core-2.rtr.storm.ca (209.87.239.129)  15.217 ms^C
  


# traceroute www.hawkigs.net
 
traceroute to www.hawkigs.net (209.87.247.234), 64 hops max, 40 byte packets
 
 1  148.59.149.1 (148.59.149.1)  3.414 ms  0.565 ms  0.606 ms   
 
 2  206.47.91.193 (206.47.91.193)  1.931 ms  1.968 ms  1.906 ms 
 
 3  tcore3-ottawatc_tengige0-0-0-8.net.bell.ca (64.230.49.204)  7.902 ms  7.618 
ms tcore4-ottawatc_tengi$
e0-0-0-8.net.bell.ca (64.230.49.206)  6.889 ms  
 
 4  tcore4-toronto21_hundredgige2-4-0-2.net.bell.ca (64.230.74.9)  10.231 ms  
12.804 ms  7.965 ms
 5  * * *   
 
 6  dis3-torontoxn_ae1.net.bell.ca (64.230.97.183)  7.042 ms  6.974 ms  6.926 
ms 
 7  204.101.124.42 (204.101.124.42)  6.758 ms  7.061 ms  7.043 ms   
 
 8  bdi2.core.rtr.storm.ca (204.187.144.166)  6.959 ms  7.012 ms  6.953 ms  
 
 9  g0-0-0.core-4.rtr.storm.ca (209.87.239.216)  14.568 ms  14.64 ms  14.803 ms 
 
10  po1.access-6.rtr.storm.ca (209.87.239.136)  17.62 ms  17.76 ms  17.627 ms   
 
11  * * * 

It's certainly not the default for TekSavvy or Rogers; which definitely use 
Toronto for their cable modems, even just to get your cable modem online - 
you're out to Toronto already - as many might have known.  But is Rogers nice 
enough to route between cable modems in the same neighbourhood or city for such 
P2P / realtime applications?  This I cannot confirm.

- Original Message -
From: "Ian! D. Allen" 
To: linux@linux-ottawa.org
Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2021 2:33:35 PM
Subject: Re: [linux] Ottawa lack of IXP peering

On Sat, Feb 13, 2021 at 12:31:51PM -0500, Brett Delmage wrote:
> On Sat, 13 Feb 2021, Ian! D. Allen wrote:
> > "Known issues with Internet routing: Some of the issues we are aware of
> > with ISPs failing to keep local traffic local:
> > Ottawa, Canada; Rogers, TekSavvy, CanNet, Acanac, Start, and Virgin
> > route all traffic via Toronto (or worse). If you or any people in your
> > ensemble are using one of these ISPs it’s probably best to use a
> > Toronto server. Bell will route directly to our Ottawa servers with 2
> > – 5ms roundtrip network latency. It seems Videotron is also good."
> 
> According to who?

According to syncspace.live right here:

https://syncspace.live/get-started/

"With these kinds of situations, it may mean that it is best to use a
server in a different city. For example, if everyone in an ensemble is
getting 5ms to the server but some people are getting 30ms because their
traffic is being routed out of town and then back, it may be best to
locate the server in one of those cities that the traffic is going
through so that everyone gets roughly equal latency even though it might
not be as low as it could be for some people. These routing problems
with ISPs are beyond our control and we already put in a huge amount of
effort to locate our strategically in the most central places with the
best peering so that we can offer the lowest possible latency for the
largest number of people in that city.

If you need help sorting things out or you have more information to add
regarding problematic routing in one of our regions, please feel free to
contact us."

-- 
| Ian! D. Allen, BA, MMath  -  idal...@idallen.ca - Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
| Home: www.idallen.com   Contact Improvisation Dance: www.contactimprov.ca
| Former college professor (Free/Libre GNU+Linux) at:  teaching.idallen.com
| Defend digital freedom:  http://eff.org/  and have fun:  http://fools.ca/

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Re: [linux] Ottawa lack of IXP peering

[Ian! D. Allen]

On Sat, Feb 13, 2021 at 12:31:51PM -0500, Brett Delmage wrote:
> On Sat, 13 Feb 2021, Ian! D. Allen wrote:
> > "Known issues with Internet routing: Some of the issues we are aware of
> > with ISPs failing to keep local traffic local:
> > Ottawa, Canada; Rogers, TekSavvy, CanNet, Acanac, Start, and Virgin
> > route all traffic via Toronto (or worse). If you or any people in your
> > ensemble are using one of these ISPs it’s probably best to use a
> > Toronto server. Bell will route directly to our Ottawa servers with 2
> > – 5ms roundtrip network latency. It seems Videotron is also good."
> 
> According to who?

According to syncspace.live right here:

https://syncspace.live/get-started/

"With these kinds of situations, it may mean that it is best to use a
server in a different city. For example, if everyone in an ensemble is
getting 5ms to the server but some people are getting 30ms because their
traffic is being routed out of town and then back, it may be best to
locate the server in one of those cities that the traffic is going
through so that everyone gets roughly equal latency even though it might
not be as low as it could be for some people. These routing problems
with ISPs are beyond our control and we already put in a huge amount of
effort to locate our strategically in the most central places with the
best peering so that we can offer the lowest possible latency for the
largest number of people in that city.

If you need help sorting things out or you have more information to add
regarding problematic routing in one of our regions, please feel free to
contact us."

-- 
| Ian! D. Allen, BA, MMath  -  idal...@idallen.ca - Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
| Home: www.idallen.com   Contact Improvisation Dance: www.contactimprov.ca
| Former college professor (Free/Libre GNU+Linux) at:  teaching.idallen.com
| Defend digital freedom:  http://eff.org/  and have fun:  http://fools.ca/

To unsubscribe send a blank message to linux+unsubscr...@linux-ottawa.org
To get help send a blank message to linux+h...@linux-ottawa.org
To visit the archives: https://lists.linux-ottawa.org

Re: [linux] Ottawa lack of IXP peering

[Brett Delmage]

On Sat, 13 Feb 2021, Ian! D. Allen wrote:


"Known issues with Internet routing: Some of the issues we are aware of
with ISPs failing to keep local traffic local:

Ottawa, Canada; Rogers, TekSavvy, CanNet, Acanac, Start, and Virgin
route all traffic via Toronto (or worse). If you or any people in your
ensemble are using one of these ISPs it’s probably best to use a
Toronto server. Bell will route directly to our Ottawa servers with 2
– 5ms roundtrip network latency. It seems Videotron is also good."


According to who? You are missing the attribution of this quote. We cannot 
determine if the source of this info is trustworthy.


Attributing your source is legally required.

Re: [linux] Ottawa lack of IXP peering

[Kenny B]

I've heard about JackTrip but haven't tried it. Hadn't heard of jamulus
before.
The first doc below says 25 ms round trip is a critical threshold, second
one says it's not adequate, so that's maybe a rough guideline. 25 ms round
trip is like sitting 14 feet apart. Social distance plus!
JackTrip software allows musicians to sync performances online | Stanford
News

JackTrip: Under the Hood of an Engine for Network Audio (stanford.edu)

I've done a little pinging and was a bit disappointed.

Thanks for posting this, I'm encouraged again.

I'm on teksavvy.


On Sat, Feb 13, 2021 at 3:53 AM Ian! D. Allen  wrote:

> Just heard about SyncSpace.live and their ability to host live ensemble
> music sessions (delay 10ms or less) using Jamulus/JackTrip to servers
> placed in some cities.
>
> Ottawa has a server but, alas, only Bell peers with it.
>
> "Known issues with Internet routing: Some of the issues we are aware of
> with ISPs failing to keep local traffic local:
>
> Ottawa, Canada; Rogers, TekSavvy, CanNet, Acanac, Start, and Virgin
> route all traffic via Toronto (or worse). If you or any people in your
> ensemble are using one of these ISPs it’s probably best to use a
> Toronto server. Bell will route directly to our Ottawa servers with 2
> – 5ms roundtrip network latency. It seems Videotron is also good."
>
> Distributel also routes via Montreal and then Toronto.
>
> What can we do to get local Ottawa ISPs to peer with each other?
>
> --
> | Ian! D. Allen, BA, MMath  -  idal...@idallen.ca - Ottawa, Ontario,
> Canada
> | Home: www.idallen.com   Contact Improvisation Dance:
> www.contactimprov.ca
> | Former college professor (Free/Libre GNU+Linux) at:
> teaching.idallen.com
> | Defend digital freedom:  http://eff.org/  and have fun:
> http://fools.ca/
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank message to linux+unsubscr...@linux-ottawa.org
> To get help send a blank message to linux+h...@linux-ottawa.org
> To visit the archives: https://lists.linux-ottawa.org
>
>

[linux] Ottawa lack of IXP peering

[Ian! D. Allen]

Just heard about SyncSpace.live and their ability to host live ensemble
music sessions (delay 10ms or less) using Jamulus/JackTrip to servers
placed in some cities.

Ottawa has a server but, alas, only Bell peers with it.

"Known issues with Internet routing: Some of the issues we are aware of
with ISPs failing to keep local traffic local:

Ottawa, Canada; Rogers, TekSavvy, CanNet, Acanac, Start, and Virgin
route all traffic via Toronto (or worse). If you or any people in your
ensemble are using one of these ISPs it’s probably best to use a
Toronto server. Bell will route directly to our Ottawa servers with 2
– 5ms roundtrip network latency. It seems Videotron is also good."

Distributel also routes via Montreal and then Toronto.

What can we do to get local Ottawa ISPs to peer with each other?

-- 
| Ian! D. Allen, BA, MMath  -  idal...@idallen.ca - Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
| Home: www.idallen.com   Contact Improvisation Dance: www.contactimprov.ca
| Former college professor (Free/Libre GNU+Linux) at:  teaching.idallen.com
| Defend digital freedom:  http://eff.org/  and have fun:  http://fools.ca/

To unsubscribe send a blank message to linux+unsubscr...@linux-ottawa.org
To get help send a blank message to linux+h...@linux-ottawa.org
To visit the archives: https://lists.linux-ottawa.org