Re: Are weekly z/VM IPLs necessary?
Enter the Wayback Machine for trip to 1996 by visiting: http://listserv.uark.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9610L=IBMVMP=R10161=IBMVM9=AI=-3J=onX=D2B166CA66E8CA0104Y=Mike.Walter%40aon.comd=No+Match%3BMatch%3BMatchesz=4 (watch out for URL line breaks of that link). That post was written before Linux ran on any IBM mainframes, and it addresses some CMS application issues, but some parts (e.g. 'other systems', and accumulated changes affecting the next IPL) still apply. While you're there, search for other posts on that thread... interesting and enlightening reading. While z/VM can shutdown and restart at astonishingly speed (well under 10 minutes), large Linux servers can take much longer -- making the business case for more frequent IPLs a more difficult decision. But one must balance weekly IPLs against the potential for the extended recovery time which may (place your bets) be required to recover from those changes which have accumulated since the last IPL, and may detrimentally affect the next IPL. Provide your management with as many facts as you can find, and your advice, then let them make a decision -- that's why they get paid the big bucks, right? Mike Walter Aon Service Corporation The opinions expressed herein are mine alone, not necessarily those of my employer. -- In response to: -- Date:Wed, 27 May 2015 14:33:41 + From:Will, Chris cw...@bcbsm.commailto:cw...@bcbsm.com Subject: Are weekly z/VM IPLs necessary? We have gotten in the habit of IPLing our z/VM and zLinux guests every = Sunday during our standalone window. With the window shrinking and the = need for 24/7 availability is it really necessary to IPL every week? If = not what potential problems could we run into by not doing the IPL (memory = leaks, logs filling etc.). This is in comparison to the Intel side of the = shop (Red Hat, Windows) where they go months between IPLs. The only = benefit I see is the opportunity to recycle WMB execution groups. Chris Will The information contained in this communication is highly confidential and = is intended solely for the use of the individual(s) to whom this = communication is directed. If you are not the intended recipient, you are = hereby notified that any viewing, copying, disclosure or distribution of = this information is prohibited. Please notify the sender, by electronic = mail or telephone, of any unintended receipt and delete the original = message without making any copies. =20 Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan and Blue Care Network of Michigan are = nonprofit corporations and independent licensees of the Blue Cross and = Blue Shield Association. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For more information on Linux on System z, visit http://wiki.linuxvm.org/
Re: zVM/Linux Upgrade
Matt, If you have space to do a second-level install, you could do that and then copy the files from MAINT 191 to your first-level system. Dennis O'Brien Tyranny is defined as that which is legal for the government but illegal for the citizenry. -- Thomas Jefferson -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:LINUX-390@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of Alan Altmark Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2015 11:39 To: LINUX-390@vm.marist.edu Subject: Re: zVM/Linux Upgrade On Thursday, 05/28/2015 at 02:06 EDT, Dazzo, Matt mda...@pch.com wrote: Oops, I just formatted the 191 disk on the MAINT id by mistake!. I did a cms format for 191 but I was signed onto maint and not my newly created id. Worse yet and embarrassing, I don't have a backup. This is a brand new install of zvm 6.3 and can be re-installed pretty easily if need be. Before doing that is there any way out of this foolish predicament? Thanks Matt I would open a PMR and ask Level 2 to send you the files. Alan Altmark Senior Managing z/VM and Linux Consultant Lab Services System z Delivery Practice IBM Systems Technology Group ibm.com/systems/services/labservices office: 607.429.3323 mobile; 607.321.7556 alan_altm...@us.ibm.com IBM Endicott -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For more information on Linux on System z, visit http://wiki.linuxvm.org/ -- This message, and any attachments, is for the intended recipient(s) only, may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or proprietary and subject to important terms and conditions available at http://www.bankofamerica.com/emaildisclaimer. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this message. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For more information on Linux on System z, visit http://wiki.linuxvm.org/
Re: zVM/Linux Upgrade
On Thursday, 05/28/2015 at 02:06 EDT, Dazzo, Matt mda...@pch.com wrote: Oops, I just formatted the 191 disk on the MAINT id by mistake!. I did a cms format for 191 but I was signed onto maint and not my newly created id. Worse yet and embarrassing, I don't have a backup. This is a brand new install of zvm 6.3 and can be re-installed pretty easily if need be. Before doing that is there any way out of this foolish predicament? Thanks Matt I would open a PMR and ask Level 2 to send you the files. Alan Altmark Senior Managing z/VM and Linux Consultant Lab Services System z Delivery Practice IBM Systems Technology Group ibm.com/systems/services/labservices office: 607.429.3323 mobile; 607.321.7556 alan_altm...@us.ibm.com IBM Endicott -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For more information on Linux on System z, visit http://wiki.linuxvm.org/
Re: zVM/Linux Upgrade
I wouldn't worry about it. If you indeed mean MAINT and not MAINT6xx, there's nothing there but a basic PROFILE EXEC, PROFILE XEDIT and SYN SYNONYM. If you'd accumulated other files there you're SOL where they're concerned, but the shipped files are easily recreatable (or copy from one of the other maintenance ids). -- Mike Harding z/VM System Support /sp Linux on 390 Port LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU wrote on 05/28/2015 12:11:52 PM: From: O'Brien, Dennis L dennis.l.o'br...@bankofamerica.com To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Date: 05/28/2015 12:13 PM Subject: Re: zVM/Linux Upgrade Sent by: Linux on 390 Port LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Matt, If you have space to do a second-level install, you could do that and then copy the files from MAINT 191 to your first-level system. Dennis O'Brien Tyranny is defined as that which is legal for the government but illegal for the citizenry. -- Thomas Jefferson -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:LINUX-390@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of Alan Altmark Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2015 11:39 To: LINUX-390@vm.marist.edu Subject: Re: zVM/Linux Upgrade On Thursday, 05/28/2015 at 02:06 EDT, Dazzo, Matt mda...@pch.com wrote: Oops, I just formatted the 191 disk on the MAINT id by mistake!. I did a cms format for 191 but I was signed onto maint and not my newly created id. Worse yet and embarrassing, I don't have a backup. This is a brand new install of zvm 6.3 and can be re-installed pretty easily if need be. Before doing that is there any way out of this foolish predicament? Thanks Matt I would open a PMR and ask Level 2 to send you the files. Alan Altmark Senior Managing z/VM and Linux Consultant Lab Services System z Delivery Practice IBM Systems Technology Group ibm.com/systems/services/labservices office: 607.429.3323 mobile; 607.321.7556 alan_altm...@us.ibm.com IBM Endicott -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For more information on Linux on System z, visit http://wiki.linuxvm.org/ -- This message, and any attachments, is for the intended recipient(s) only, may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/ or proprietary and subject to important terms and conditions available at http://www.bankofamerica.com/emaildisclaimer. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this message. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For more information on Linux on System z, visit http://wiki.linuxvm.org/ -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For more information on Linux on System z, visit http://wiki.linuxvm.org/
Re: zVM/Linux Upgrade
Oops, I just formatted the 191 disk on the MAINT id by mistake!. I did a cms format for 191 but I was signed onto maint and not my newly created id. Worse yet and embarrassing, I don't have a backup. This is a brand new install of zvm 6.3 and can be re-installed pretty easily if need be. Before doing that is there any way out of this foolish predicament? Thanks Matt -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU] On Behalf Of Alan Altmark Sent: Friday, May 08, 2015 4:02 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: zVM/Linux Upgrade On Friday, 05/08/2015 at 02:20 EDT, Dazzo, Matt mda...@pch.com wrote: Well being late is sometimes good for us newbie's, it keeps us searching. I slept on this and got started this morning. I found my own answers, I think?. A section of the system config is below, the disable of the auto_warm_ipl will provide the prompts giving me the hcp6013a msg, correct? By the way this is a first level install. tks Matt Features , Disable , Set_Privclass , Auto_Warm_IPL , Clear_TDisk , You will never get HCPSED6013A when you're running first level, since that message actually comes from the 1st level system. Instead, you will see the Operating System Messages icon on the HMC light up. (If the system actually comes up on the Operating System Messages console.) You are correct that disabling Auto_Warm_IPL will cause the system to prompt you, even if it's capable of starting on its own. Alan Altmark Senior Managing z/VM and Linux Consultant Lab Services System z Delivery Practice IBM Systems Technology Group ibm.com/systems/services/labservices office: 607.429.3323 mobile; 607.321.7556 alan_altm...@us.ibm.com IBM Endicott -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For more information on Linux on System z, visit http://wiki.linuxvm.org/ -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For more information on Linux on System z, visit http://wiki.linuxvm.org/
Re: Are weekly z/VM IPLs necessary?
I think Marcy's point is that if you can't think of the last time you booted Linux (or z/VM) -- then you're probably very behind on things like security and bug fixes... Scott Rohling On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 5:37 AM, Mark Pace pacemainl...@gmail.com wrote: I IPL z/VM only when CP maintenance is applied. I used to reboot/IPL my Linux guests at the same time. I no longer do that. I simply move them to another z/VM with LGR and after the z/VM IPL I move them back again. I can't think of the last time I had to reboot/IPL my Linux guests. On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 11:30 PM, Marcy Cortes marcy.d.cor...@wellsfargo.com wrote: You've gotten a lot of answers and they are worrisome! Here's my 5 or 6 cents. Yes, z/VM and Linux can go a very long time without being IPL'd/rebooted. Your applications may or may not. I would argue if they cannot, they need to solve the problem rather than clean it up with an IPL and/or reboot. If they need a reboot every weekend to clean up their memory problems, what happens if their volume doubles? Will they start rebooting every 3.5 days? We saw an app that started having very intermittent periods of weird delays after 5 or 6 weeks of uptime that was solved by an app recycle so they are now searching for a leak. I will add that I don't think I've ever seen an app leak problem affect Linux itself or for that matter VM itself - cycling the app or pkill -u appuser has been enough to clear up any memory issues. If someone asks your to recycle a server to solve an app problem , just say no ( Or more diplomatically, really??can't we try just recycling the app first?). The only ones I've seen that that was actually necessary on was when the OOM killer on Linux shot things, visible in the console. At that point reboot is inevitable and probably the server was short on memory to start with) . If you go more than a couple months on Linux or even on z/VM these days (and we all follow IBM ResourceLink Security for z/VM right?) , your patch policy is very generous or non-existent. I would say that we are at probably 5-6 VM IPLs per year to stay current (RSUs, releases, HW ucode), apply fixes we need (we find bugs, we apply fixes, we don't wait around to find the bugs that someone else already did) , and all security fixes. Linux is also averaging every other month for a reboot needed for kernel and/or glibc things that of course will require a reboot. Our challenge these days is to just coordinate those to same weekends so that there are change-free holiday weekends and system change free weekends so that those are available for application changes. PS - Our WMB (IIB) doesn't need weekly recycles as far as I've heard and we've been running that for probably 4 or 5 years. Its supporting some 70+ applications. These days when someone brags about uptime I'm not impressed. Watch the youtube from Share Seattle http://www.share.org/p/bl/et/blogaid=343 Yeah, it was z/OS, but is your tn3270 running encrypted and not subject to all the SSL bugs?! PPS to Sir Alan,: i need a card for the security weasel club, thanks :) Marcy -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU] On Behalf Of Will, Chris Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2015 7:34 AM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: [LINUX-390] Are weekly z/VM IPLs necessary? We have gotten in the habit of IPLing our z/VM and zLinux guests every Sunday during our standalone window. With the window shrinking and the need for 24/7 availability is it really necessary to IPL every week? If not what potential problems could we run into by not doing the IPL (memory leaks, logs filling etc.). This is in comparison to the Intel side of the shop (Red Hat, Windows) where they go months between IPLs. The only benefit I see is the opportunity to recycle WMB execution groups. Chris Will The information contained in this communication is highly confidential and is intended solely for the use of the individual(s) to whom this communication is directed. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any viewing, copying, disclosure or distribution of this information is prohibited. Please notify the sender, by electronic mail or telephone, of any unintended receipt and delete the original message without making any copies. Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan and Blue Care Network of Michigan are nonprofit corporations and independent licensees of the Blue Cross and Blue Shield Association. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Are weekly z/VM IPLs necessary?
Scott R wrote: I think Marcy's point is that if you can't think of the last time you booted Linux (or z/VM) -- then you're probably very behind on things like security and bug fixes... Yup, that's what I'm trying to say. Probably in way too many words :)
Re: Are weekly z/VM IPLs necessary?
I IPL z/VM only when CP maintenance is applied. I used to reboot/IPL my Linux guests at the same time. I no longer do that. I simply move them to another z/VM with LGR and after the z/VM IPL I move them back again. I can't think of the last time I had to reboot/IPL my Linux guests. On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 11:30 PM, Marcy Cortes marcy.d.cor...@wellsfargo.com wrote: You've gotten a lot of answers and they are worrisome! Here's my 5 or 6 cents. Yes, z/VM and Linux can go a very long time without being IPL'd/rebooted. Your applications may or may not. I would argue if they cannot, they need to solve the problem rather than clean it up with an IPL and/or reboot. If they need a reboot every weekend to clean up their memory problems, what happens if their volume doubles? Will they start rebooting every 3.5 days? We saw an app that started having very intermittent periods of weird delays after 5 or 6 weeks of uptime that was solved by an app recycle so they are now searching for a leak. I will add that I don't think I've ever seen an app leak problem affect Linux itself or for that matter VM itself - cycling the app or pkill -u appuser has been enough to clear up any memory issues. If someone asks your to recycle a server to solve an app problem , just say no ( Or more diplomatically, really??can't we try just recycling the app first?). The only ones I've seen that that was actually necessary on was when the OOM killer on Linux shot things, visible in the console. At that point reboot is inevitable and probably the server was short on memory to start with) . If you go more than a couple months on Linux or even on z/VM these days (and we all follow IBM ResourceLink Security for z/VM right?) , your patch policy is very generous or non-existent. I would say that we are at probably 5-6 VM IPLs per year to stay current (RSUs, releases, HW ucode), apply fixes we need (we find bugs, we apply fixes, we don't wait around to find the bugs that someone else already did) , and all security fixes. Linux is also averaging every other month for a reboot needed for kernel and/or glibc things that of course will require a reboot. Our challenge these days is to just coordinate those to same weekends so that there are change-free holiday weekends and system change free weekends so that those are available for application changes. PS - Our WMB (IIB) doesn't need weekly recycles as far as I've heard and we've been running that for probably 4 or 5 years. Its supporting some 70+ applications. These days when someone brags about uptime I'm not impressed. Watch the youtube from Share Seattle http://www.share.org/p/bl/et/blogaid=343 Yeah, it was z/OS, but is your tn3270 running encrypted and not subject to all the SSL bugs?! PPS to Sir Alan,: i need a card for the security weasel club, thanks :) Marcy -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU] On Behalf Of Will, Chris Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2015 7:34 AM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: [LINUX-390] Are weekly z/VM IPLs necessary? We have gotten in the habit of IPLing our z/VM and zLinux guests every Sunday during our standalone window. With the window shrinking and the need for 24/7 availability is it really necessary to IPL every week? If not what potential problems could we run into by not doing the IPL (memory leaks, logs filling etc.). This is in comparison to the Intel side of the shop (Red Hat, Windows) where they go months between IPLs. The only benefit I see is the opportunity to recycle WMB execution groups. Chris Will The information contained in this communication is highly confidential and is intended solely for the use of the individual(s) to whom this communication is directed. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any viewing, copying, disclosure or distribution of this information is prohibited. Please notify the sender, by electronic mail or telephone, of any unintended receipt and delete the original message without making any copies. Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan and Blue Care Network of Michigan are nonprofit corporations and independent licensees of the Blue Cross and Blue Shield Association. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For more information on Linux on System z, visit http://wiki.linuxvm.org/ -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Are weekly z/VM IPLs necessary?
Sounds like advice I got years ago (tail end of the 286 era) from a former co-worker... If you're blowing the dust off the motherboard it is well past the time to upgrade -soup On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 10:50 AM, Marcy Cortes marcy.d.cor...@wellsfargo.com wrote: Scott R wrote: I think Marcy's point is that if you can't think of the last time you booted Linux (or z/VM) -- then you're probably very behind on things like security and bug fixes... Yup, that's what I'm trying to say. Probably in way too many words :) -- John R. Campbell Speaker to Machines souperb at gmail dot com MacOS X proved it was easier to make Unix user-friendly than to fix Windows It doesn't matter how well-crafted a system is to eliminate errors; Regardless of any and all checks and balances in place, all systems will fail because, somewhere, there is meat in the loop. - me -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For more information on Linux on System z, visit http://wiki.linuxvm.org/
