Re: Defining an LPAR on a z box to run LINUX
You should also use cio_ignore= to ignore all devices you might want to use later but not now. The major issue (besides regulating access) is not IPL time (though applications like HAL are extremely slow to start with many devices) Can be order of 45-50 minutes with 16K devices. Ugh. Do you know what takes so long (HAL?) FWIW, in-kernel detection of devices is now done in max. 30 seconds due to parallelism (unlike 2.4, which literally may take hours if some devices behave badly). Seems to spend most of it's time figuring out what kind of device it is. As you say, newer versions are faster. I prefer to see it as another compelling reason to run z/VM and not mess with Linux in LPARs. 8-) But nevertheless: Know how to use cio_ignore= :) Indeed. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Defining an LPAR on a z box to run LINUX
When we first tried Linux in an LPAR, about 3 months ago, we were concerned about this. The LPAR we were using was defined for another purpose, and had access to 12,000+ DASD devices. We went to IBM, and they recommended CIO_IGNORE. I tested that under VM, and it appeared to work, but when we tried it in the real LPAR, the kernel couldn't find ANY DASD devices. Rather than delay the test, we booted without the parm, and it came up fine, 12,000+ devices and all (they were scoped down in the module parm). It took about 5 minutes to scan them all on our z9 with Ficon. We haven't tried Linux in an LPAR again since, so I have no way to determine what went wrong. -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Boyes Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 9:41 AM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: [LINUX-390] Defining an LPAR on a z box to run LINUX You should also use cio_ignore= to ignore all devices you might want to use later but not now. The major issue (besides regulating access) is not IPL time (though applications like HAL are extremely slow to start with many devices) Can be order of 45-50 minutes with 16K devices. Ugh. Do you know what takes so long (HAL?) FWIW, in-kernel detection of devices is now done in max. 30 seconds due to parallelism (unlike 2.4, which literally may take hours if some devices behave badly). Seems to spend most of it's time figuring out what kind of device it is. As you say, newer versions are faster. I prefer to see it as another compelling reason to run z/VM and not mess with Linux in LPARs. 8-) But nevertheless: Know how to use cio_ignore= :) Indeed. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 This message w/attachments (message) may be privileged, confidential or proprietary, and if you are not an intended recipient, please notify the sender, do not use or share it and delete it. Unless specifically indicated, this message is not an offer to sell or a solicitation of any investment products or other financial product or service, an official confirmation of any transaction, or an official statement of Merrill Lynch. Subject to applicable law, Merrill Lynch may monitor, review and retain e-communications (EC) traveling through its networks/systems. The laws of the country of each sender/recipient may impact the handling of EC, and EC may be archived, supervised and produced in countries other than the country in which you are located. This message cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free. This message is subject to terms available at the following link: http://www.ml.com/e-communications_terms/. By messaging with Merrill Lynch you consent to the foregoing. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Defining an LPAR on a z box to run LINUX
On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 13:02:16 -0400, David Boyes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You should also use cio_ignore= to ignore all devices you might want to use later but not now. The major issue (besides regulating access) is not IPL time (though applications like HAL are extremely slow to start with many devices) Can be order of 45-50 minutes with 16K devices. Ugh. Do you know what takes so long (HAL?) FWIW, in-kernel detection of devices is now done in max. 30 seconds due to parallelism (unlike 2.4, which literally may take hours if some devices behave badly). but system load or memory pressure due to lots of hotplug processes. Also a problem once we get past the IPL problem. 8-) This should be a lesser problem on newer distros (as they hopefully rely completely on udev and don't spawn tons of bash scripts). But nevertheless: Know how to use cio_ignore= :) -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Defining an LPAR on a z box to run LINUX
We are researching the possibility of putting up a LINUX LPAR on our z/890 for a Proof of Concept. We currently have 3 general purpose CP's turned on in the box. All 3 of the general purpose CP's are available for use to the 3 z/OS LPAR's we run on the machine, none of the CP's are dedicated. I know on the HMC's Activation Profile you can select the LPAR mode ESA/390 or LINUX (and a few other options as well). What I'd like to do is Build a 4th LPAR to be a LINUX LPAR, assign that LPAR just a single processor, it's own Devices via IOCP along with a chunk of memory. This LPAR would just be for me to play around with and learn on. Now my question is the following. Since all three of my General Purpose CP's are shared across LPAR's that are EAS/390 Mode LPARS, can I use one of those same three General Purpose CP's for this LINUX Mode LPAR? Or must all LPAR's assigned to a CP be defined as the same mode type? i.e. EAS/390 or LINUX. -Thanks Dave. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Defining an LPAR on a z box to run LINUX
Since you have no IFL(s) you would assign one or more ESA/390 processors to the LPAR. Rakoczy, Dave wrote: We are researching the possibility of putting up a LINUX LPAR on our z/890 for a Proof of Concept. We currently have 3 general purpose CP's turned on in the box. All 3 of the general purpose CP's are available for use to the 3 z/OS LPAR's we run on the machine, none of the CP's are dedicated. I know on the HMC's Activation Profile you can select the LPAR mode ESA/390 or LINUX (and a few other options as well). What I'd like to do is Build a 4th LPAR to be a LINUX LPAR, assign that LPAR just a single processor, it's own Devices via IOCP along with a chunk of memory. This LPAR would just be for me to play around with and learn on. Now my question is the following. Since all three of my General Purpose CP's are shared across LPAR's that are EAS/390 Mode LPARS, can I use one of those same three General Purpose CP's for this LINUX Mode LPAR? Or must all LPAR's assigned to a CP be defined as the same mode type? i.e. EAS/390 or LINUX. -Thanks Dave. -- Rich Smrcina VM Assist, Inc. Phone: 414-491-6001 Ans Service: 360-715-2467 rich.smrcina at vmassist.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/richsmrcina Catch the WAVV! http://www.wavv.org WAVV 2008 - Chattanooga - April 18-22, 2008 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Defining an LPAR on a z box to run LINUX
Just define your Linux LPAR as you would a z/OS LPAR. The CP type 'LINUX' refers to an IFL engine (Integrated Facility for Linux), which from your description you do not have. Yes, all LPARS assigned to a CP must be the same type. -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rakoczy, Dave Sent: July 31, 2007 08:14 To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Defining an LPAR on a z box to run LINUX We are researching the possibility of putting up a LINUX LPAR on our z/890 for a Proof of Concept. We currently have 3 general purpose CP's turned on in the box. All 3 of the general purpose CP's are available for use to the 3 z/OS LPAR's we run on the machine, none of the CP's are dedicated. I know on the HMC's Activation Profile you can select the LPAR mode ESA/390 or LINUX (and a few other options as well). What I'd like to do is Build a 4th LPAR to be a LINUX LPAR, assign that LPAR just a single processor, it's own Devices via IOCP along with a chunk of memory. This LPAR would just be for me to play around with and learn on. Now my question is the following. Since all three of my General Purpose CP's are shared across LPAR's that are EAS/390 Mode LPARS, can I use one of those same three General Purpose CP's for this LINUX Mode LPAR? Or must all LPAR's assigned to a CP be defined as the same mode type? i.e. EAS/390 or LINUX. -Thanks Dave. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review retransmission dissemination or other use of or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient or delegate is strictly prohibited. If you received this in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. The integrity and security of this message cannot by guaranteed on the Internet. The Sender accepts no liability for the content of this e-mail or for the consequences of any actions taken on basis of the information provided. The recipient should check this e-mail and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The sender accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this e-mail. This disclaimer is the property of the TTC and must not be altered or circumvented in any manner. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Defining an LPAR on a z box to run LINUX
If you're doing a proof of concept, talk to your friendly IBM Sales Rep; you might just be able to talk him / her into turning on an IFL for POC purposes, and you won't have to impact your production workload at all. Just a thought -- .~.Robert P. Nix Mayo Foundation /V\RO-OE-5-55200 First Street SW /( )\ 507-284-0844 Rochester, MN 55905 ^^-^^ - In theory, theory and practice are the same, but in practice, theory and practice are different. On 7/31/07 7:30 AM, Peter Webb, Toronto Transit Commission [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just define your Linux LPAR as you would a z/OS LPAR. The CP type 'LINUX' refers to an IFL engine (Integrated Facility for Linux), which from your description you do not have. Yes, all LPARS assigned to a CP must be the same type. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Defining an LPAR on a z box to run LINUX
Yes... We are in working with our IBM Rep, only problem is our purchasing department moves nowhere near as quickly as out IT department would like them too. Thanks to all who cleared this question up for me. I have a feeling I'll be back with additional inquiries as time go on. Thanks again. -Dave -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of RPN01 Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 8:57 AM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Defining an LPAR on a z box to run LINUX If you're doing a proof of concept, talk to your friendly IBM Sales Rep; you might just be able to talk him / her into turning on an IFL for POC purposes, and you won't have to impact your production workload at all. Just a thought -- .~.Robert P. Nix Mayo Foundation /V\RO-OE-5-55200 First Street SW /( )\ 507-284-0844 Rochester, MN 55905 ^^-^^ - In theory, theory and practice are the same, but in practice, theory and practice are different. On 7/31/07 7:30 AM, Peter Webb, Toronto Transit Commission [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just define your Linux LPAR as you would a z/OS LPAR. The CP type 'LINUX' refers to an IFL engine (Integrated Facility for Linux), which from your description you do not have. Yes, all LPARS assigned to a CP must be the same type. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Defining an LPAR on a z box to run LINUX
Now my question is the following. Since all three of my General Purpose CP's are shared across LPAR's that are EAS/390 Mode LPARS, can I use one of those same three General Purpose CP's for this LINUX Mode LPAR? Or must all LPAR's assigned to a CP be defined as the same mode type? i.e. EAS/390 or LINUX. In your case, stick with standard engines (ESA/390) and define the LPAR just like your z/OS LPARs with shared processors. Also, define ONLY the devices that Linux will be allowed to use. If you share all devices, your Linux will a) take forever to IPL, and b) have unfettered access to all your data. Linux pays no attention to any z/OS security system or dataset protections. Your gun, your head. To save you enormous grief, ask IBM for a trial copy of z/VM. Linux in LPARs is a royal PITA, and you'll get much better ROI from running Linux in VM guests. It's also a lot safer if you're sharing hardware with another OS, eg z/OS. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Defining an LPAR on a z box to run LINUX
On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 09:52:31 -0400, David Boyes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also, define ONLY the devices that Linux will be allowed to use. If you share all devices, your Linux will a) take forever to IPL, and b) have unfettered access to all your data. Linux pays no attention to any z/OS security system or dataset protections. Your gun, your head. You should also use cio_ignore= to ignore all devices you might want to use later but not now. The major issue (besides regulating access) is not IPL time (though applications like HAL are extremely slow to start with many devices), but system load or memory pressure due to lots of hotplug processes. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Defining an LPAR on a z box to run LINUX
You should also use cio_ignore= to ignore all devices you might want to use later but not now. The major issue (besides regulating access) is not IPL time (though applications like HAL are extremely slow to start with many devices) Can be order of 45-50 minutes with 16K devices. but system load or memory pressure due to lots of hotplug processes. Also a problem once we get past the IPL problem. 8-) -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Defining an LPAR on a z box to run LINUX
Dave, if you have spare PU on your z890, I would strongly recommend to get IFL for test purposes which can be free for 3 or 6 months. It is also possible to get trial contract for z/VM, which is a good idea. Are your CPs on full speed or not ? If you assign one capped CP which you share with production, it will be wy slower than IFL which is full speed. And slow response is not a good start for PoC. We have many customers running Linux on z890 happily, most of my customers run it on IFL with or without z/VM. Marian Gasparovic IBM Slovakia --- Rakoczy, Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes... We are in working with our IBM Rep, only problem is our purchasing department moves nowhere near as quickly as out IT department would like them too. Thanks to all who cleared this question up for me. I have a feeling I'll be back with additional inquiries as time go on. Thanks again. -Dave -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of RPN01 Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 8:57 AM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Defining an LPAR on a z box to run LINUX If you're doing a proof of concept, talk to your friendly IBM Sales Rep; you might just be able to talk him / her into turning on an IFL for POC purposes, and you won't have to impact your production workload at all. Just a thought -- .~.Robert P. Nix Mayo Foundation /V\RO-OE-5-55200 First Street SW /( )\ 507-284-0844 Rochester, MN 55905 ^^-^^ - In theory, theory and practice are the same, but in practice, theory and practice are different. On 7/31/07 7:30 AM, Peter Webb, Toronto Transit Commission [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just define your Linux LPAR as you would a z/OS LPAR. The CP type 'LINUX' refers to an IFL engine (Integrated Facility for Linux), which from your description you do not have. Yes, all LPARS assigned to a CP must be the same type. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Defining an LPAR on a z box to run LINUX
Does any purchasing dept work as fast as the IT dept? You haven't seen here at the customer site g K -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rakoczy, Dave Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 9:10 AM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Defining an LPAR on a z box to run LINUX Yes... We are in working with our IBM Rep, only problem is our purchasing department moves nowhere near as quickly as out IT department would like them too. Thanks to all who cleared this question up for me. I have a feeling I'll be back with additional inquiries as time go on. Thanks again. -Dave -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of RPN01 Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 8:57 AM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Defining an LPAR on a z box to run LINUX If you're doing a proof of concept, talk to your friendly IBM Sales Rep; you might just be able to talk him / her into turning on an IFL for POC purposes, and you won't have to impact your production workload at all. Just a thought -- .~.Robert P. Nix Mayo Foundation /V\RO-OE-5-55200 First Street SW /( )\ 507-284-0844 Rochester, MN 55905 ^^-^^ - In theory, theory and practice are the same, but in practice, theory and practice are different. On 7/31/07 7:30 AM, Peter Webb, Toronto Transit Commission [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just define your Linux LPAR as you would a z/OS LPAR. The CP type 'LINUX' refers to an IFL engine (Integrated Facility for Linux), which from your description you do not have. Yes, all LPARS assigned to a CP must be the same type. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
