Re: What is vnc
James Melin wrote: Greetings Warren. I've encountered times where I had NO choice but to use a GUI installer (Neon Shadow Direct Driver, for instance). When that happens, I would start a VNCserver. One comes with the SLES distribution. There are ones that have less overhead, but since I use this only rarely, I've not bothered. Starting the vncserver: vncserver -depth 24 -geometry 1024x768 :0 This creates a VNC server on which you can do something by connecting a vnc viewer to. You basically get an xterm shell and nothing else. No desktop overhead, no full blown KDE or GNOME. But it is enough* to use a GUI tool. Once you run this it wil prompt for a password to use to access things. It will also create a directory in your $HOME dir called .vnc - in that directory is a file called xstartup It should be mentioned that this password isn't stored very securely; while it's encrypted, the encryption isnpt very rubust: the docs do warn you. cat xstartup #!/bin/sh xrdb $HOME/.Xresources xsetroot -solid grey xterm -geometry 80x24+10+10 -ls -title $VNCDESKTOP Desktop twm The default seems to be to start twm - Tiny window Manager. It's ok. It works. it's ugly. You could choose to use another window manager as personal preference dictates. You can actually kill twm in that shell, and start another wm. Probably at that point one can start KDE or GNOME. If you change this while the vncserver is running you need to stop and start it: vncserver -kill :0 - Where :0 is your X windows screen. Since there is no desktop running on z, :0 is available. On an intel box, you'd want to default to :1 or :2. Restart the server per above, and connect to the DNS resolveable name OR IP address using a PC based VNC viewer. Note: this is a great way to burn CPU resources on your z box. Get in, get done, get out. Generally, folk recomment that vncserver should only listen to localhost, that the ports it uses be blocked in your firewalls, and that you connect using port forwarding in ssh. snip snip You people need som scissors;-) -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please do not reply off-list -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: What is vnc
RPN01 wrote: Another use for VNC has nothing to do with running it on the mainframe linux itself. You can run VNC on a smaller server and use it as a go-between allowing you to start long-running gui tasks (such as system installs) and then close your laptop and go home or to the coffee shop, where you can pick back up in your install without any loss or interruption. A second use, which we do here quite a bit, is the feature that a VNC session can be viewed by more than one user at a time (the -share option). This allows you to show a problem to a coworker or vendor, or to watch someone do a procedure and learn how to do it, or to share a desktop during a conference call. and if you don't need the GUI, then screen is your friend. It too allows dosconnection and sharing; uses b-all RAM, lets you run many programs. screen is great, as I'm sure Google would tell you: I've said it before. -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please do not reply off-list -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: What is vnc
Henry E Schaffer wrote: John Summerfield writes: ... btw, not every implementation if vi is equal, vile is well-named, nvi is ok, vigor is an enhanced nvi, but my favourite is vim, because there's a GUI version of it (and a build for Windows). I agree about vim - it's what vi should have been :-) (and probably would have been if enough processing power had been available back then). The added benefits are so important (e.g. unlimited undo/redo) that anybody who was impatient with vi should take a good look at vim. But it shares vi's steep learning curve that has discouraged so many people. My first direct contact with Linux was when I used telnet on OS/2 to connect to my shell account. _That_ was steep. Next? -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please do not reply off-list -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: What is vnc
There is a vnc product named TightVNC. It can use the SSH protocol to provide more network security. tom - - - - - - - - - - - - Toto, I have a feeling we're not in the mainframe world any more. _/) Tom Shilson ~Unix Team / IT Server Services Aloha Tel: 651-733-7591 tshilson at mmm dot com Fax: 651-736-7689 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: What is vnc
Tom Shilson wrote: There is a vnc product named TightVNC. It can use the SSH protocol to provide more network security. That's what SUSE ships (and to my delight, there's a windows client on my DVD), but for RH users, it's not quite so simple. however, port-forwarding with SSH is easy (and can also be used to gain access to other equipment such as routers, printers such). -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please do not reply off-list -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: What is vnc
I must admit that being predominantly a mainframe user under z/OS, I also FTP download files to the PC, edit them and FTP upload them again IF I have a significant amount of rework on some code. Copy/paste and graphical screens (not fixed 43*80 screens used by ISPF-Edit) are just more friendly than ISPF-Edit on the mainframe. But for normal editing sessions, I still use ISPF-Edit. I, personally, don't like vi but don't use it enough to become familiar with it. Kevin -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Warren Taylor Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 11:47 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: What is vnc It seems I've struck a nerve with my frustration using the native linux editors. I guess I'll rephrase and just say that the best alternative I have found is to ftp to the linux workstation and gedit the file, then ftp it back. It gives me the ability to manipulate large files with ease. Others have suggested NFS and this might be an interesting alternative to ftp'ing back and forth. My users won't be compiling anything so an IDE seems like overkill. A seamless way for them to edit files on the server database from their linux workstations would be a good solution. thanks and sorry - Original Message From: Adam Thornton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2007 8:13:20 PM Subject: Re: What is vnc On Mar 8, 2007, at 7:17 PM, Warren Taylor wrote: due to the uniqueness of our work, an IDE is probably not worth the expenditure and if I hear one more reference to vi Im going to croak. These editors are far too weak to be considered for any type of serious work. even emacs is too weak to accomplish the task. we have a small number of users and currently most have linux workstations available to them. Please enlighten me as to what task is so enormous that emacs can't do it, but for which an IDE is unsuitable. In fact, just enlighten me as to what's a stronger editor than emacs. I have difficulty envisioning this. I have met better development environments than Emacs + Speedbar + whatever-mode ( + some combination of useful elisp), but not many of them, and only in purpose-built environments. Adam -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: What is vnc
I use various NFS clients against Linux content all the time. One of interest is the CMS NFS client, which allows use of XEDIT on Linux files. Sweet! But be careful about dissing EMACS. It really is more than an editor. It's really a LISP engine disguised as an editor. (EMACS could be taught to speak 3270, if anyone took the time to train it on the UTSGlobal tube driver.) Actually, be careful dissing any editor because the whole thing tends to wax religious, as you've seen. [unpaid endorsement spoken by someone who is NOT an EMACS fan] -- R; Warren Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: Linux on 390 Port LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU 03/08/2007 08:17 PM Please respond to Linux on 390 Port LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU From Warren Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] To LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU cc Subject Re: What is vnc due to the uniqueness of our work, an IDE is probably not worth the expenditure and if I hear one more reference to vi Im going to croak. These editors are far too weak to be considered for any type of serious work. even emacs is too weak to accomplish the task. we have a small number of users and currently most have linux workstations available to them. I like the NFS export idea. The files need to live on the server and if that will allow me to use what's on the linux desktop to edit what's on the server database then I'd be quite pleased. I'll just need to learn what this file sharing is all about. thanks - Original Message From: Mark Post [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2007 4:58:21 PM Subject: Re: What is vnc On Thu, Mar 8, 2007 at 5:57 PM, in message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Warren Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For my RHEL4 on a VM guest, all I can see is using emacs through putty to do our editing. (we are a heavy editing environment). I have managed to used gedit from a linux desktop but that was somewhat painful and now refuses to work at all (but I don't really miss its instability). Am I stuck with putty and emacs? There are probably more editors available for Linux than just about anything else. (I think Debian packages 42 of them, or some such large number.) There are the vi clones, such as vim or elvis. Then there's jed, joe, THE (can be made to look like XEDIT), and probably many more besides. If, by heavy editing environment you mean a software development shop, you may want to look into some of the various IDEs that are available. Myself, I would tend to go with a Linux desktop and mounting an NFS export from the system where the files need to live. Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: What is vnc
Kevin ... You too might consider an NFS client. No reason you could not use ISPF edit against Linux content. It's your call. -- R; Evans, Kevin R [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: Linux on 390 Port LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU 03/09/2007 05:04 AM Please respond to Linux on 390 Port LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU From Evans, Kevin R [EMAIL PROTECTED] To LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU cc Subject Re: What is vnc I must admit that being predominantly a mainframe user under z/OS, I also FTP download files to the PC, edit them and FTP upload them again IF I have a significant amount of rework on some code. Copy/paste and graphical screens (not fixed 43*80 screens used by ISPF-Edit) are just more friendly than ISPF-Edit on the mainframe. But for normal editing sessions, I still use ISPF-Edit. I, personally, don't like vi but don't use it enough to become familiar with it. Kevin -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Warren Taylor Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 11:47 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: What is vnc It seems I've struck a nerve with my frustration using the native linux editors. I guess I'll rephrase and just say that the best alternative I have found is to ftp to the linux workstation and gedit the file, then ftp it back. It gives me the ability to manipulate large files with ease. Others have suggested NFS and this might be an interesting alternative to ftp'ing back and forth. My users won't be compiling anything so an IDE seems like overkill. A seamless way for them to edit files on the server database from their linux workstations would be a good solution. thanks and sorry - Original Message From: Adam Thornton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2007 8:13:20 PM Subject: Re: What is vnc On Mar 8, 2007, at 7:17 PM, Warren Taylor wrote: due to the uniqueness of our work, an IDE is probably not worth the expenditure and if I hear one more reference to vi Im going to croak. These editors are far too weak to be considered for any type of serious work. even emacs is too weak to accomplish the task. we have a small number of users and currently most have linux workstations available to them. Please enlighten me as to what task is so enormous that emacs can't do it, but for which an IDE is unsuitable. In fact, just enlighten me as to what's a stronger editor than emacs. I have difficulty envisioning this. I have met better development environments than Emacs + Speedbar + whatever-mode ( + some combination of useful elisp), but not many of them, and only in purpose-built environments. Adam -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: What is vnc
Greetings Warren. I've encountered times where I had NO choice but to use a GUI installer (Neon Shadow Direct Driver, for instance). When that happens, I would start a VNCserver. One comes with the SLES distribution. There are ones that have less overhead, but since I use this only rarely, I've not bothered. Starting the vncserver: vncserver -depth 24 -geometry 1024x768 :0 This creates a VNC server on which you can do something by connecting a vnc viewer to. You basically get an xterm shell and nothing else. No desktop overhead, no full blown KDE or GNOME. But it is enough* to use a GUI tool. Once you run this it wil prompt for a password to use to access things. It will also create a directory in your $HOME dir called .vnc - in that directory is a file called xstartup cat xstartup #!/bin/sh xrdb $HOME/.Xresources xsetroot -solid grey xterm -geometry 80x24+10+10 -ls -title $VNCDESKTOP Desktop twm The default seems to be to start twm - Tiny window Manager. It's ok. It works. it's ugly. You could choose to use another window manager as personal preference dictates. If you change this while the vncserver is running you need to stop and start it: vncserver -kill :0 - Where :0 is your X windows screen. Since there is no desktop running on z, :0 is available. On an intel box, you'd want to default to :1 or :2. Restart the server per above, and connect to the DNS resolveable name OR IP address using a PC based VNC viewer. Note: this is a great way to burn CPU resources on your z box. Get in, get done, get out. I hope this helps. -J Warren Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: Linux on 390 Port LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU To LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU cc 03/08/2007 04:57 PM Subject Re: What is vnc Please respond to Linux on 390 Port LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU For my RHEL4 on a VM guest, all I can see is using emacs through putty to do our editing. (we are a heavy editing environment). I have managed to used gedit from a linux desktop but that was somewhat painful and now refuses to work at all (but I don't really miss its instability). Am I stuck with putty and emacs? - Original Message From: Mark Post [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2007 2:48:31 PM Subject: Re: What is vnc On Thu, Mar 8, 2007 at 5:35 PM, in message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Warren Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: and how can this be applied to Linux running on VM? There is no desktop on VM? Correct. You would use VNC to connect to a graphical desktop environment on a Linux guest. Typically _not_ recommended for performance reasons, but sometimes required to install things such as WebSphere, DB2, Oracle, etc. It is considered somewhat more lightweight than just using X, but I've always found it to be just as painful. Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: What is vnc
Yep, the zLinux guys are still getting used to everything as our Linux project won't go live for a while yet. I'm kind of on the periphery as they will be sending messages into the existing CICS regions for those who wish to send data in using XML (and that hits the stuff that I work on). Kevin -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Richard Troth Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 8:07 AM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: What is vnc Kevin ... You too might consider an NFS client. No reason you could not use ISPF edit against Linux content. It's your call. -- R; Evans, Kevin R [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: Linux on 390 Port LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU 03/09/2007 05:04 AM Please respond to Linux on 390 Port LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU From Evans, Kevin R [EMAIL PROTECTED] To LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU cc Subject Re: What is vnc I must admit that being predominantly a mainframe user under z/OS, I also FTP download files to the PC, edit them and FTP upload them again IF I have a significant amount of rework on some code. Copy/paste and graphical screens (not fixed 43*80 screens used by ISPF-Edit) are just more friendly than ISPF-Edit on the mainframe. But for normal editing sessions, I still use ISPF-Edit. I, personally, don't like vi but don't use it enough to become familiar with it. Kevin -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Warren Taylor Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 11:47 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: What is vnc It seems I've struck a nerve with my frustration using the native linux editors. I guess I'll rephrase and just say that the best alternative I have found is to ftp to the linux workstation and gedit the file, then ftp it back. It gives me the ability to manipulate large files with ease. Others have suggested NFS and this might be an interesting alternative to ftp'ing back and forth. My users won't be compiling anything so an IDE seems like overkill. A seamless way for them to edit files on the server database from their linux workstations would be a good solution. thanks and sorry - Original Message From: Adam Thornton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2007 8:13:20 PM Subject: Re: What is vnc On Mar 8, 2007, at 7:17 PM, Warren Taylor wrote: due to the uniqueness of our work, an IDE is probably not worth the expenditure and if I hear one more reference to vi Im going to croak. These editors are far too weak to be considered for any type of serious work. even emacs is too weak to accomplish the task. we have a small number of users and currently most have linux workstations available to them. Please enlighten me as to what task is so enormous that emacs can't do it, but for which an IDE is unsuitable. In fact, just enlighten me as to what's a stronger editor than emacs. I have difficulty envisioning this. I have met better development environments than Emacs + Speedbar + whatever-mode ( + some combination of useful elisp), but not many of them, and only in purpose-built environments. Adam -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: What is vnc
Another use for VNC has nothing to do with running it on the mainframe linux itself. You can run VNC on a smaller server and use it as a go-between allowing you to start long-running gui tasks (such as system installs) and then close your laptop and go home or to the coffee shop, where you can pick back up in your install without any loss or interruption. A second use, which we do here quite a bit, is the feature that a VNC session can be viewed by more than one user at a time (the -share option). This allows you to show a problem to a coworker or vendor, or to watch someone do a procedure and learn how to do it, or to share a desktop during a conference call. -- Bob Nix On 3/9/07 8:49 AM, James Melin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greetings Warren. I've encountered times where I had NO choice but to use a GUI installer (Neon Shadow Direct Driver, for instance). When that happens, I would start a VNCserver. One comes with the SLES distribution. There are ones that have less overhead, but since I use this only rarely, I've not bothered. Starting the vncserver: vncserver -depth 24 -geometry 1024x768 :0 This creates a VNC server on which you can do something by connecting a vnc viewer to. You basically get an xterm shell and nothing else. No desktop overhead, no full blown KDE or GNOME. But it is enough* to use a GUI tool. Once you run this it wil prompt for a password to use to access things. It will also create a directory in your $HOME dir called .vnc - in that directory is a file called xstartup cat xstartup #!/bin/sh xrdb $HOME/.Xresources xsetroot -solid grey xterm -geometry 80x24+10+10 -ls -title $VNCDESKTOP Desktop twm The default seems to be to start twm - Tiny window Manager. It's ok. It works. it's ugly. You could choose to use another window manager as personal preference dictates. If you change this while the vncserver is running you need to stop and start it: vncserver -kill :0 - Where :0 is your X windows screen. Since there is no desktop running on z, :0 is available. On an intel box, you'd want to default to :1 or :2. Restart the server per above, and connect to the DNS resolveable name OR IP address using a PC based VNC viewer. Note: this is a great way to burn CPU resources on your z box. Get in, get done, get out. I hope this helps. -J Warren Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: Linux on 390 Port LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU To LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU cc 03/08/2007 04:57 PM Subject Re: What is vnc Please respond to Linux on 390 Port LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU For my RHEL4 on a VM guest, all I can see is using emacs through putty to do our editing. (we are a heavy editing environment). I have managed to used gedit from a linux desktop but that was somewhat painful and now refuses to work at all (but I don't really miss its instability). Am I stuck with putty and emacs? - Original Message From: Mark Post [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2007 2:48:31 PM Subject: Re: What is vnc On Thu, Mar 8, 2007 at 5:35 PM, in message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Warren Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: and how can this be applied to Linux running on VM? There is no desktop on VM? Correct. You would use VNC to connect to a graphical desktop environment on a Linux guest. Typically _not_ recommended for performance reasons, but sometimes required to install things such as WebSphere, DB2, Oracle, etc. It is considered somewhat more lightweight than just using X, but I've always found it to be just as painful. Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- .~.Robert P. Nix Mayo Foundation /V\RO-OC-1-13 200 First Street SW / ( ) \ 507-284-0844 Rochester, MN 55905 ^^-^^ - In theory, theory and practice are the same, but in practice, theory and practice are different. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email
Re: What is vnc
With the level of (pure) editing power that is out there in the world, I prefer not to use XEDIT anymore either. I also came from that environment which then turned into TSO/ISPF. The beginning of this last project has me using one of the 'pads' and I guess I'm spoiled. In fact, the vendor scripts I'm running convert input files because they expect you may be using a DOS editor. I do need to say that emacs actually does everything I ask of it but I did notice a spike in cpu usage when I'm editing a large text file. (In my case it was something close to 30-40% which seemed quite high since I was the only one the system. However this may be because I'm running Linux on a VM/Guest and I need to go beg the VM sysprog for a bigger slice...I don't know). This is another concern and makes me wonder if I need to offload this function to the linux desktops somehow. I think my main point is that I would like to use the power of the linux desktop to do the editing and use the VM/Linux guest as a file server. It sounds like NFS is made to order in this case. I'm a newbie so I'm bound to make some ignorant statements but I'm a good learner so I won't do it again [fo sho]. much thanks - Original Message From: Richard Troth [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Sent: Friday, March 9, 2007 5:04:35 AM Subject: Re: What is vnc I use various NFS clients against Linux content all the time. One of interest is the CMS NFS client, which allows use of XEDIT on Linux files. Sweet! But be careful about dissing EMACS. It really is more than an editor. It's really a LISP engine disguised as an editor. (EMACS could be taught to speak 3270, if anyone took the time to train it on the UTSGlobal tube driver.) Actually, be careful dissing any editor because the whole thing tends to wax religious, as you've seen. [unpaid endorsement spoken by someone who is NOT an EMACS fan] -- R; Warren Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: Linux on 390 Port LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU 03/08/2007 08:17 PM Please respond to Linux on 390 Port LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU From Warren Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] To LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU cc Subject Re: What is vnc due to the uniqueness of our work, an IDE is probably not worth the expenditure and if I hear one more reference to vi Im going to croak. These editors are far too weak to be considered for any type of serious work. even emacs is too weak to accomplish the task. we have a small number of users and currently most have linux workstations available to them. I like the NFS export idea. The files need to live on the server and if that will allow me to use what's on the linux desktop to edit what's on the server database then I'd be quite pleased. I'll just need to learn what this file sharing is all about. thanks - Original Message From: Mark Post [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2007 4:58:21 PM Subject: Re: What is vnc On Thu, Mar 8, 2007 at 5:57 PM, in message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Warren Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For my RHEL4 on a VM guest, all I can see is using emacs through putty to do our editing. (we are a heavy editing environment). I have managed to used gedit from a linux desktop but that was somewhat painful and now refuses to work at all (but I don't really miss its instability). Am I stuck with putty and emacs? There are probably more editors available for Linux than just about anything else. (I think Debian packages 42 of them, or some such large number.) There are the vi clones, such as vim or elvis. Then there's jed, joe, THE (can be made to look like XEDIT), and probably many more besides. If, by heavy editing environment you mean a software development shop, you may want to look into some of the various IDEs that are available. Myself, I would tend to go with a Linux desktop and mounting an NFS export from the system where the files need to live. Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX
Re: What is vnc
John Summerfield writes: ... btw, not every implementation if vi is equal, vile is well-named, nvi is ok, vigor is an enhanced nvi, but my favourite is vim, because there's a GUI version of it (and a build for Windows). I agree about vim - it's what vi should have been :-) (and probably would have been if enough processing power had been available back then). The added benefits are so important (e.g. unlimited undo/redo) that anybody who was impatient with vi should take a good look at vim. But it shares vi's steep learning curve that has discouraged so many people. --henry schaffer -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: What is vnc
due to the uniqueness of our work, an IDE is probably not worth the expenditure Eclipse costs you nothing. And it's on most distributions. I like the NFS export idea. The files need to live on the server and if that will allow me to use what's on the linux desktop to edit what's on the server database then I'd be quite pleased. I'll just need to learn what this file sharing is all about. Wise choice, although if it's a shared environment, some kind of source control system is wise to keep people from clobbering each other. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
What is vnc
Is there anywhere that describes exactly what you get with vnc? -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: What is vnc
www.realvnc.com -- R; - Original Message - From: Warren Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 03/08/2007 05:07 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: What is vnc Is there anywhere that describes exactly what you get with vnc? -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: What is vnc
and how can this be applied to Linux running on VM? There is no desktop on VM? - Original Message From: Richard Troth [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2007 2:14:36 PM Subject: Re: What is vnc www.realvnc.com -- R; - Original Message - From: Warren Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 03/08/2007 05:07 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: What is vnc Is there anywhere that describes exactly what you get with vnc? -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: What is vnc
On Thu, Mar 8, 2007 at 5:35 PM, in message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Warren Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: and how can this be applied to Linux running on VM? There is no desktop on VM? Correct. You would use VNC to connect to a graphical desktop environment on a Linux guest. Typically _not_ recommended for performance reasons, but sometimes required to install things such as WebSphere, DB2, Oracle, etc. It is considered somewhat more lightweight than just using X, but I've always found it to be just as painful. Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: What is vnc
For my RHEL4 on a VM guest, all I can see is using emacs through putty to do our editing. (we are a heavy editing environment). I have managed to used gedit from a linux desktop but that was somewhat painful and now refuses to work at all (but I don't really miss its instability). Am I stuck with putty and emacs? - Original Message From: Mark Post [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2007 2:48:31 PM Subject: Re: What is vnc On Thu, Mar 8, 2007 at 5:35 PM, in message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Warren Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: and how can this be applied to Linux running on VM? There is no desktop on VM? Correct. You would use VNC to connect to a graphical desktop environment on a Linux guest. Typically _not_ recommended for performance reasons, but sometimes required to install things such as WebSphere, DB2, Oracle, etc. It is considered somewhat more lightweight than just using X, but I've always found it to be just as painful. Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: What is vnc
On 3/8/07, Warren Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For my RHEL4 on a VM guest, all I can see is using emacs through putty to do our editing. (we are a heavy editing environment). I have managed to used gedit from a linux desktop but that was somewhat painful and now refuses to work at all (but I don't really miss its instability). Am I stuck with putty and emacs? So you want to use a graphical editor? If you ssh from a Linux workstation to your virtual server and forward the X11 connections, then your X11 application will just come up on the workstation. You could even bring up a file manager that way. The performance may not be what you would like, but that's probably more due to the remote host than zSeries. Alternative would be to mount the file system on your Linux workstation and do your editing there. I did something similar when I could not get enough disk space on the mainframe. Simply mount a file system of the workstation on the host. It also let me untar the files on the workstation and then compile them on the host. Rob -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: What is vnc
Warren Taylor wrote: For my RHEL4 on a VM guest, all I can see is using emacs through putty to do our editing. (we are a heavy editing environment). I have managed to used gedit from a linux desktop but that was somewhat painful and now refuses to work at all (but I don't really miss its instability). Am I stuck with putty and emacs? Linux on your desktop is good. If you must run Windows then Linux under virtual PC might do. If those are forbidden to you, you may prefer putty and vim: I don't like emacs, and I did make a decent effort to accustom myself to it. A little while ago I derided the idea of copying a remote file to the local host, changing it and putting it back. However, I subsequently decided that in my case it's sensible, and wrote a short script to facilitate it. There's also the possibility of exporting (some) filesystems using Samba, and making the changes with notepad (does it work for Unix fileendings?). I'm assuming if you're doing lots of edits, it's not just system files:-) -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please do not reply off-list -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: What is vnc
Vnc provides a method of remotely accessing a X11-based GUI remotely by means of a simplified (and less bandwidth-hungry) network protocol and a OS-independent client *as if one was directly interacting with the X desktop*. This is important for VM in several ways: 1) Most (if not all) IBM mainframes do not have bitmap displays connected, which makes it impossible to run X natively. 2) the X network protocol between clients and servers is very chatty, which makes it difficult to support interactive work over WAN or high-latency links. 3) It removes a 'different' aspect of Linux on the mainframe. Since the current generation of Linux admins seem incapable of coping without a GUI, vnc allows mainframe and non-mainframe systems to appear exactly the same. -Original Message- From: Warren Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Sent: 3/8/07 5:45 PM Subject: Re: What is vnc and how can this be applied to Linux running on VM? There is no desktop on VM? - Original Message From: Richard Troth [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2007 2:14:36 PM Subject: Re: What is vnc www.realvnc.com -- R; - Original Message - From: Warren Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 03/08/2007 05:07 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: What is vnc Is there anywhere that describes exactly what you get with vnc? -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: What is vnc
On 3/9/07, David Boyes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 3) It removes a 'different' aspect of Linux on the mainframe. Since the current generation of Linux admins seem incapable of coping without a GUI, vnc allows mainframe and non-mainframe systems to appear exactly the same. It has more to do with not working on the machine itself and appears to apply to managing remote servers in general. Not just mainframe but any virtually headless server. From what I have seen the folks who get high servers per admin ratio's are not those who use a graphical desktop. Most likely because the GUI seems to encourage more ad-hoc style of working. One of the teams I worked with considered an interactive session with a server an exception that required justification of a problem ticket. But you may run into middleware that is so advanced that it requires a GUI to have a simple yes/no dialog with the admin (instead of allowing a prepared config file as input). While one of those also had an ncurses installer, after several unexplained failures the GUI version was able to tell me it considered my disk space insufficient... So even if you don't do GUI, it may be wise to make sure you have the things in place to use it when you're forced to. Rob -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: What is vnc
On Thu, Mar 8, 2007 at 5:57 PM, in message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Warren Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For my RHEL4 on a VM guest, all I can see is using emacs through putty to do our editing. (we are a heavy editing environment). I have managed to used gedit from a linux desktop but that was somewhat painful and now refuses to work at all (but I don't really miss its instability). Am I stuck with putty and emacs? There are probably more editors available for Linux than just about anything else. (I think Debian packages 42 of them, or some such large number.) There are the vi clones, such as vim or elvis. Then there's jed, joe, THE (can be made to look like XEDIT), and probably many more besides. If, by heavy editing environment you mean a software development shop, you may want to look into some of the various IDEs that are available. Myself, I would tend to go with a Linux desktop and mounting an NFS export from the system where the files need to live. Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: What is vnc
due to the uniqueness of our work, an IDE is probably not worth the expenditure and if I hear one more reference to vi Im going to croak. These editors are far too weak to be considered for any type of serious work. even emacs is too weak to accomplish the task. we have a small number of users and currently most have linux workstations available to them. I like the NFS export idea. The files need to live on the server and if that will allow me to use what's on the linux desktop to edit what's on the server database then I'd be quite pleased. I'll just need to learn what this file sharing is all about. thanks - Original Message From: Mark Post [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2007 4:58:21 PM Subject: Re: What is vnc On Thu, Mar 8, 2007 at 5:57 PM, in message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Warren Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For my RHEL4 on a VM guest, all I can see is using emacs through putty to do our editing. (we are a heavy editing environment). I have managed to used gedit from a linux desktop but that was somewhat painful and now refuses to work at all (but I don't really miss its instability). Am I stuck with putty and emacs? There are probably more editors available for Linux than just about anything else. (I think Debian packages 42 of them, or some such large number.) There are the vi clones, such as vim or elvis. Then there's jed, joe, THE (can be made to look like XEDIT), and probably many more besides. If, by heavy editing environment you mean a software development shop, you may want to look into some of the various IDEs that are available. Myself, I would tend to go with a Linux desktop and mounting an NFS export from the system where the files need to live. Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: What is vnc
It seems I've struck a nerve with my frustration using the native linux editors. I guess I'll rephrase and just say that the best alternative I have found is to ftp to the linux workstation and gedit the file, then ftp it back. It gives me the ability to manipulate large files with ease. Others have suggested NFS and this might be an interesting alternative to ftp'ing back and forth. My users won't be compiling anything so an IDE seems like overkill. A seamless way for them to edit files on the server database from their linux workstations would be a good solution. thanks and sorry - Original Message From: Adam Thornton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2007 8:13:20 PM Subject: Re: What is vnc On Mar 8, 2007, at 7:17 PM, Warren Taylor wrote: due to the uniqueness of our work, an IDE is probably not worth the expenditure and if I hear one more reference to vi Im going to croak. These editors are far too weak to be considered for any type of serious work. even emacs is too weak to accomplish the task. we have a small number of users and currently most have linux workstations available to them. Please enlighten me as to what task is so enormous that emacs can't do it, but for which an IDE is unsuitable. In fact, just enlighten me as to what's a stronger editor than emacs. I have difficulty envisioning this. I have met better development environments than Emacs + Speedbar + whatever-mode ( + some combination of useful elisp), but not many of them, and only in purpose-built environments. Adam -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: What is vnc
Warren Taylor wrote: It seems I've struck a nerve with my frustration using the native linux editors. I guess I'll rephrase and just say that the best alternative I have found is to ftp to the linux workstation and gedit the file, then ftp it back. It gives me the ability to manipulate large files with ease. Others have suggested NFS and this might be an interesting alternative to ftp'ing back and forth. My users won't be compiling anything so an IDE seems like overkill. A seamless way for them to edit files on the server database from their linux workstations would be a good solution. thanks and sorry More to the point, people are trying to comprehend how you find the existing Linux tools inadequate. They might be, but you've not made the point yet. From the information to hand so far, your best approach is to use NFS; it's completely transparent, and if you set it up with automount, it's always almost mounted: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~]$ ls /net/ns total 8 dr-xr-xr-x 3 root0 Mar 9 14:08 home dr-xr-xr-x 2 root0 Mar 9 14:08 misc drwxr-xr-x 5 root 4096 Feb 15 19:10 tftpboot dr-xr-xr-x 4 root0 Mar 9 14:08 var [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~]$ The action of referring to it gets it mounted. btw, not every implementation if vi is equal, vile is well-named, nvi is ok, vigor is an enhanced nvi, but my favourite is vim, because there's a GUI version of it (and a build for Windows). - Original Message From: Adam Thornton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2007 8:13:20 PM Subject: Re: What is vnc On Mar 8, 2007, at 7:17 PM, Warren Taylor wrote: due to the uniqueness of our work, an IDE is probably not worth the expenditure and if I hear one more reference to vi Im going to croak. These editors are far too weak to be considered for any type of serious work. even emacs is too weak to accomplish the task. we have a small number of users and currently most have linux workstations available to them. Please enlighten me as to what task is so enormous that emacs can't do it, but for which an IDE is unsuitable. In fact, just enlighten me as to what's a stronger editor than emacs. I have difficulty envisioning this. I have met better development environments than Emacs + Speedbar + whatever-mode ( + some combination of useful elisp), but not many of them, and only in purpose-built environments. Adam -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please do not reply off-list -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: What is vnc
On Mar 8, 2007, at 10:47 PM, Warren Taylor wrote: It seems I've struck a nerve with my frustration using the native linux editors. No, it's more that you've struck a nerve by wildly inaccurately denouncing emacs and vi as weaker than gedit. Less immediately accessible, sure. Less pretty in a GUI context, generally, sure (although you can do some awfully nice things with Emacs). Less powerful? Er, no. Not even remotely the case, at least for Emacs (which is what I use; I can't speak for vi users). Looking at the list of features at http://www.gnome.org/projects/ gedit/, the only thing I see that I can't immediately think of how to do with Emacs is print preview; I'd probably just postscript-print- buffer into GhostScript. Sure, gedit can do C, Perl, Python, and XML syntax highlighting. But does gedit have a COBOL editing mode? PL/I? Rexx? All with full syntax highlighting? All of those are in my .emacs file. I've needed and used all of them in the past year. But these are just things we'd expect any reasonably-competent editor to be able to do. Now, let's look at some of the lesser-explored corners of Emacs: Does gedit support psychoanalysis of Zippy the Pinhead? Of course it doesn't. (M-x psychoanalyze-pinhead, of course) Does it have a text adventure (M-x dunnet) you can play in one of its buffers? Didn't think so. Are there newsreaders for gedit (M-x gnus)? Doubtful. Can it even play Tetris ( M-x tetris) ? Seriously: I don't like emacs or vi is a perfectly reasonable statement to make. I prefer gedit to either emacs or vi is, again, wholly within the realm of rationality. Emacs and vi are weak, not so much. Adam -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: What is vnc
Adam Thornton wrote: On Mar 8, 2007, at 10:47 PM, Warren Taylor wrote: But these are just things we'd expect any reasonably-competent editor to be able to do. Now, let's look at some of the lesser-explored corners of Emacs: Does gedit support psychoanalysis of Zippy the Pinhead? Of course it doesn't. (M-x psychoanalyze-pinhead, of course) Does it have a text adventure (M-x dunnet) you can play in one of its buffers? Didn't think so. Are there newsreaders for gedit (M-x gnus)? Doubtful. Can it even play Tetris ( M-x tetris) ? You forgot the two email clients. And it's built-in support for lisp. There's also a fork of emacs called xemacs which is worth a look. -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please do not reply off-list -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
