Re: Why Linux Developers Should Reconsider IBM Mainframes - Linux.com

2019-10-16 Thread Alan Altmark
On Monday, 10/14/2019 at 03:14 GMT, Joe Monk  wrote:
> To further Alans point, this manual is loaded with references to "i390":
>
> http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/redbooks/pdfs/sg247748.pdf

IMO, that book should never have been published in that form, mashing 
together the IBM internal use and customer external use of the HMC.  Hex 
patching?  Cloning?  Please.

But, still, an very good book for understanding basic concepts of the HMC 
and its interaction with PR/SM.

Alan Altmark

Senior Managing z/VM and Linux Consultant
IBM Systems Lab Services
IBM Z Delivery Practice
ibm.com/systems/services/labservices
office: 607.429.3323
mobile; 607.321.7556
alan_altm...@us.ibm.com
IBM Endicott


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Re: Why Linux Developers Should Reconsider IBM Mainframes - Linux.com

2019-10-14 Thread Tom Huegel
I used to have Ford Galaxy "XL500" I liked that name. The car not so much.

On Mon, Oct 14, 2019 at 1:13 PM Alan Altmark 
wrote:

> On Monday, 10/14/2019 at 04:57 GMT, Michael MacIsaac 
>
> wrote:
> > Shoulda been 's390z'. IIRC it was decided less than a year before the
> > mainframe got rebranded to 'z'.
>
> Think of s390x and "s390 with extensions", a la 370/XA.  The external
> marketing term "z/Architecture" was very late.  Based on the internal
> technical name of the architecture, I would suggest just taking the "x"
> and running with it.
>
> Personally, I think they should have added 30 more degrees (360+10=370,
> 370+20=390, 390+30=420) and had S/420, but that's weird and too easily
> confused with AS/400.  So add 110 degrees and make it S/500?  Eeew.  I
> know, right?  Gotta have the '3'?  So maybe just add 1 and have S/391.
> Drats.  Can't have an odd number, so S/392.  Eeew**2.   No wonder they
> called it "z/Architecture".  Why number it when you can name it?
>
> Alan Altmark
>
> Senior Managing z/VM and Linux Consultant
> IBM Systems Lab Services
> IBM Z Delivery Practice
> ibm.com/systems/services/labservices
> office: 607.429.3323
> mobile; 607.321.7556
> alan_altm...@us.ibm.com
> IBM Endicott
>
>
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Re: Why Linux Developers Should Reconsider IBM Mainframes - Linux.com

2019-10-14 Thread Alan Altmark
On Monday, 10/14/2019 at 04:57 GMT, Michael MacIsaac  
wrote:
> Shoulda been 's390z'. IIRC it was decided less than a year before the
> mainframe got rebranded to 'z'.

Think of s390x and "s390 with extensions", a la 370/XA.  The external 
marketing term "z/Architecture" was very late.  Based on the internal 
technical name of the architecture, I would suggest just taking the "x" 
and running with it.

Personally, I think they should have added 30 more degrees (360+10=370, 
370+20=390, 390+30=420) and had S/420, but that's weird and too easily 
confused with AS/400.  So add 110 degrees and make it S/500?  Eeew.  I 
know, right?  Gotta have the '3'?  So maybe just add 1 and have S/391. 
Drats.  Can't have an odd number, so S/392.  Eeew**2.   No wonder they 
called it "z/Architecture".  Why number it when you can name it?

Alan Altmark

Senior Managing z/VM and Linux Consultant
IBM Systems Lab Services
IBM Z Delivery Practice
ibm.com/systems/services/labservices
office: 607.429.3323
mobile; 607.321.7556
alan_altm...@us.ibm.com
IBM Endicott


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Re: Why Linux Developers Should Reconsider IBM Mainframes - Linux.com

2019-10-14 Thread Michael MacIsaac
Shoulda been 's390z'. IIRC it was decided less than a year before the
mainframe got rebranded to 'z'.

-Mike

On Mon, Oct 14, 2019 at 12:48 PM Rick Troth  wrote:

> On 10/14/19 8:03 AM, James Tison wrote:
> >  ...
> > 390x (z/Architecture) was introduced almost immediately after s390 came
> on
> > board, and it seems to be the ID "with legs". In modern terms, i390 means
> > nothing (unless someone would care to revive it), s390 means XA, s390x
> > still means z/Architecture as it always has.
> >
> > You're right. The s390x tag isn't used much outside of GNU/Linux & BSD
> > circles. Too bad. I think it's a very convenient shorthand (not to
> mention
> > 10 characters' less typing to do), YMMV :-)
>
>
> I've been seeing "s390x" (and occasionally "s390") in USS regularly.
> Probably *did* originate with Linux, but works.
>
>
> -- R; <><
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: Why Linux Developers Should Reconsider IBM Mainframes - Linux.com

2019-10-14 Thread Rick Troth
On 10/14/19 8:03 AM, James Tison wrote:
>  ...
> 390x (z/Architecture) was introduced almost immediately after s390 came on
> board, and it seems to be the ID "with legs". In modern terms, i390 means
> nothing (unless someone would care to revive it), s390 means XA, s390x
> still means z/Architecture as it always has.
>
> You're right. The s390x tag isn't used much outside of GNU/Linux & BSD
> circles. Too bad. I think it's a very convenient shorthand (not to mention
> 10 characters' less typing to do), YMMV :-)


I've been seeing "s390x" (and occasionally "s390") in USS regularly.
Probably *did* originate with Linux, but works.


-- R; <><








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Re: Why Linux Developers Should Reconsider IBM Mainframes - Linux.com

2019-10-14 Thread Phil Smith III
Rob van der Heij wrote:
>But it’s true that those terms are not used outside Linux on System Z. >Even
though zArchitecture isn’t an appealing name. And we don’t hear much about
>i390 anymore 

*ahem* "z/Architecture". IBM considers it to be software, interestingly enough, 
so it gets the slash. Unless you meant http://zarchitecture.com/, which is even 
more confusing.

...phsiii (Pedantic Mondays!)

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Re: Why Linux Developers Should Reconsider IBM Mainframes - Linux.com

2019-10-14 Thread Joe Monk
To further Alans point, this manual is loaded with references to "i390":

http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/redbooks/pdfs/sg247748.pdf

Joe

On Mon, Oct 14, 2019 at 10:16 AM Alan Altmark 
wrote:

>
> The term “i390” has been socialized outside of IBM. It is the name given by
> IBM to the micro-architecture underneath S/390 and z/Architecture.  It is
> the entire set of functions, and their associated instructions, needed to
> run the machine.
>
> Regards,
> Alan Altmark
> IBM
>
> > On Oct 14, 2019, at 8:05 AM, James Tison  wrote:
> >
> > Now that I think about it, I don't think there was ever an i390 --
> although
> > there was an i370, which died a long time ago (based on the very first
> port
> > of what was then not yet z/Architecture, s390 took its place when IBM
> > decided it'd participate in GNU tools development way back circa
> 2000/2001.
> > s390x (z/Architecture) was introduced almost immediately after s390 came
> on
> > board, and it seems to be the ID "with legs". In modern terms, i390 means
> > nothing (unless someone would care to revive it), s390 means XA, s390x
> > still means z/Architecture as it always has.
> >
> > You're right. The s390x tag isn't used much outside of GNU/Linux & BSD
> > circles. Too bad. I think it's a very convenient shorthand (not to
> mention
> > 10 characters' less typing to do), YMMV :-)
> >
> > Jim Tison
> > z/TPF Systems Programmer
> > IBM Services
> >
> >
> >
> > From:Rob van der Heij 
> > To:LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
> > Date:10/13/2019 11:50
> > Subject:[EXTERNAL] Re: Why Linux Developers Should Reconsider IBM
> >Mainframes - Linux.com
> > Sent by:Linux on 390 Port 
> >
> >
> >
> > But it’s true that those terms are not used outside Linux on System Z.
> Even
> > though zArchitecture isn’t an appealing name. And we don’t hear much
> about
> > i390 anymore 
> >
> >> On Sun, 13 Oct 2019 at 15:41, Neale Ferguson 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Yes and still is. If you execute the ubame command it will shows s390x.
> >> The arch-specific RPMs all have s390x in the filename. gcc defines
> > __s390__
> >> and __s390x__ which cane be used to test if you're (a) on a Z box and
> (b)
> >> if it's 64 bit.
> >>
> >>
> >>  Original message 
> >> From: Mike Shorkend 
> >> Date: 10/13/19 09:30 (GMT-05:00)
> >> To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
> >> Subject: [LINUX-390] Why Linux Developers Should Reconsider IBM
> > Mainframes
> >> - Linux.com
> >>
> >> Interesting article.
> >> Cross posted to IBM-MAIN and LINUX-390.
> >> I don't think that 64bit was ever called 390x, was it?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.linux.com_articles_why-2Dlinux-2Ddevelopers-2Dshould-2Dreconsider-2Dibm-2Dmainframes_=DwIFaQ=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg=5dDoM057-adexkKoqfLbqdQAVPjy9hL8XFaaIjvKcCY=465kKRLkemFqHaf_U9DL1laG_JyfvX1wf-HvO_G3mWs=lU2tlyAch0sUuliDCdeVuwjyt5i3CPHOrPiNRaziObs=
>
> >
> >>
> >> --
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> or
> >> visit
> >>
> >
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>
> >
> >>
> >
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> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=ht

Re: Why Linux Developers Should Reconsider IBM Mainframes - Linux.com

2019-10-14 Thread Alan Altmark

The term “i390” has been socialized outside of IBM. It is the name given by
IBM to the micro-architecture underneath S/390 and z/Architecture.  It is
the entire set of functions, and their associated instructions, needed to
run the machine.

Regards,
Alan Altmark
IBM

> On Oct 14, 2019, at 8:05 AM, James Tison  wrote:
>
> Now that I think about it, I don't think there was ever an i390 --
although
> there was an i370, which died a long time ago (based on the very first
port
> of what was then not yet z/Architecture, s390 took its place when IBM
> decided it'd participate in GNU tools development way back circa
2000/2001.
> s390x (z/Architecture) was introduced almost immediately after s390 came
on
> board, and it seems to be the ID "with legs". In modern terms, i390 means
> nothing (unless someone would care to revive it), s390 means XA, s390x
> still means z/Architecture as it always has.
>
> You're right. The s390x tag isn't used much outside of GNU/Linux & BSD
> circles. Too bad. I think it's a very convenient shorthand (not to
mention
> 10 characters' less typing to do), YMMV :-)
>
> Jim Tison
> z/TPF Systems Programmer
> IBM Services
>
>
>
> From:Rob van der Heij 
> To:    LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
> Date:    10/13/2019 11:50
> Subject:[EXTERNAL] Re: Why Linux Developers Should Reconsider IBM
>Mainframes - Linux.com
> Sent by:Linux on 390 Port 
>
>
>
> But it’s true that those terms are not used outside Linux on System Z.
Even
> though zArchitecture isn’t an appealing name. And we don’t hear much
about
> i390 anymore 
>
>> On Sun, 13 Oct 2019 at 15:41, Neale Ferguson 
wrote:
>>
>> Yes and still is. If you execute the ubame command it will shows s390x.
>> The arch-specific RPMs all have s390x in the filename. gcc defines
> __s390__
>> and __s390x__ which cane be used to test if you're (a) on a Z box and
(b)
>> if it's 64 bit.
>>
>>
>> ---- Original message ----
>> From: Mike Shorkend 
>> Date: 10/13/19 09:30 (GMT-05:00)
>> To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
>> Subject: [LINUX-390] Why Linux Developers Should Reconsider IBM
> Mainframes
>> - Linux.com
>>
>> Interesting article.
>> Cross posted to IBM-MAIN and LINUX-390.
>> I don't think that 64bit was ever called 390x, was it?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.linux.com_articles_why-2Dlinux-2Ddevelopers-2Dshould-2Dreconsider-2Dibm-2Dmainframes_=DwIFaQ=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg=5dDoM057-adexkKoqfLbqdQAVPjy9hL8XFaaIjvKcCY=465kKRLkemFqHaf_U9DL1laG_JyfvX1wf-HvO_G3mWs=lU2tlyAch0sUuliDCdeVuwjyt5i3CPHOrPiNRaziObs=

>
>>
>> --
>> For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
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>> visit
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https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www2.marist.edu_htbin_wlvindex-3FLINUX-2D390=DwIFaQ=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg=5dDoM057-adexkKoqfLbqdQAVPjy9hL8XFaaIjvKcCY=465kKRLkemFqHaf_U9DL1laG_JyfvX1wf-HvO_G3mWs=003CiRHiLgc5zeiJZIiEPXU7oY7YJ2iwF8j5Og2H4kU=

>
>>
>> --
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>
>>
>
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>
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Re: Why Linux Developers Should Reconsider IBM Mainframes - Linux.com

2019-10-14 Thread Rob van der Heij
On Mon, 14 Oct 2019 at 14:05, James Tison  wrote:

> Now that I think about it, I don't think there was ever an i390 -- although
> there was an i370, which died a long time ago (based on the very first port
>

True, I was thinking of i370. My apologies. I still remember when I made a
typo when cross-building GLIBC for i370 and things slowly started to fail
on my PC when I replaced the libraries...

Rob

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Re: Why Linux Developers Should Reconsider IBM Mainframes - Linux.com

2019-10-14 Thread James Tison
Now that I think about it, I don't think there was ever an i390 -- although
there was an i370, which died a long time ago (based on the very first port
of what was then not yet z/Architecture, s390 took its place when IBM
decided it'd participate in GNU tools development way back circa 2000/2001.
s390x (z/Architecture) was introduced almost immediately after s390 came on
board, and it seems to be the ID "with legs". In modern terms, i390 means
nothing (unless someone would care to revive it), s390 means XA, s390x
still means z/Architecture as it always has.

You're right. The s390x tag isn't used much outside of GNU/Linux & BSD
circles. Too bad. I think it's a very convenient shorthand (not to mention
10 characters' less typing to do), YMMV :-)

Jim Tison
z/TPF Systems Programmer
IBM Services



From:   Rob van der Heij 
To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
Date:   10/13/2019 11:50
Subject:[EXTERNAL] Re: Why Linux Developers Should Reconsider IBM
    Mainframes - Linux.com
Sent by:Linux on 390 Port 



But it’s true that those terms are not used outside Linux on System Z. Even
though zArchitecture isn’t an appealing name. And we don’t hear much about
i390 anymore 

On Sun, 13 Oct 2019 at 15:41, Neale Ferguson  wrote:

> Yes and still is. If you execute the ubame command it will shows s390x.
> The arch-specific RPMs all have s390x in the filename. gcc defines
__s390__
> and __s390x__ which cane be used to test if you're (a) on a Z box and (b)
> if it's 64 bit.
>
>
>  Original message 
> From: Mike Shorkend 
> Date: 10/13/19 09:30 (GMT-05:00)
> To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
> Subject: [LINUX-390] Why Linux Developers Should Reconsider IBM
Mainframes
> - Linux.com
>
> Interesting article.
> Cross posted to IBM-MAIN and LINUX-390.
> I don't think that 64bit was ever called 390x, was it?
>
>
>
>
>
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.linux.com_articles_why-2Dlinux-2Ddevelopers-2Dshould-2Dreconsider-2Dibm-2Dmainframes_=DwIFaQ=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg=5dDoM057-adexkKoqfLbqdQAVPjy9hL8XFaaIjvKcCY=465kKRLkemFqHaf_U9DL1laG_JyfvX1wf-HvO_G3mWs=lU2tlyAch0sUuliDCdeVuwjyt5i3CPHOrPiNRaziObs=

>
> --
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>
> --
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>

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Re: Why Linux Developers Should Reconsider IBM Mainframes - Linux.com

2019-10-13 Thread Rob van der Heij
But it’s true that those terms are not used outside Linux on System Z. Even
though zArchitecture isn’t an appealing name. And we don’t hear much about
i390 anymore 

On Sun, 13 Oct 2019 at 15:41, Neale Ferguson  wrote:

> Yes and still is. If you execute the ubame command it will shows s390x.
> The arch-specific RPMs all have s390x in the filename. gcc defines __s390__
> and __s390x__ which cane be used to test if you're (a) on a Z box and (b)
> if it's 64 bit.
>
>
>  Original message 
> From: Mike Shorkend 
> Date: 10/13/19 09:30 (GMT-05:00)
> To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
> Subject: [LINUX-390] Why Linux Developers Should Reconsider IBM Mainframes
> - Linux.com
>
> Interesting article.
> Cross posted to IBM-MAIN and LINUX-390.
> I don't think that 64bit was ever called 390x, was it?
>
>
>
>
> https://www.linux.com/articles/why-linux-developers-should-reconsider-ibm-mainframes/
>
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> For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
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> visit
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Re: Why Linux Developers Should Reconsider IBM Mainframes - Linux.com

2019-10-13 Thread Neale Ferguson
Yes and still is. If you execute the ubame command it will shows s390x. The 
arch-specific RPMs all have s390x in the filename. gcc defines __s390__ and 
__s390x__ which cane be used to test if you're (a) on a Z box and (b) if it's 
64 bit.


 Original message 
From: Mike Shorkend 
Date: 10/13/19 09:30 (GMT-05:00)
To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: [LINUX-390] Why Linux Developers Should Reconsider IBM Mainframes - 
Linux.com

Interesting article.
Cross posted to IBM-MAIN and LINUX-390.
I don't think that 64bit was ever called 390x, was it?



https://www.linux.com/articles/why-linux-developers-should-reconsider-ibm-mainframes/

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Why Linux Developers Should Reconsider IBM Mainframes - Linux.com

2019-10-13 Thread Mike Shorkend
Interesting article.
Cross posted to IBM-MAIN and LINUX-390.
I don't think that 64bit was ever called 390x, was it?



https://www.linux.com/articles/why-linux-developers-should-reconsider-ibm-mainframes/

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