need to compare apples to oranges (HP Unix CPU to zVM IFL CPU with Oracle)
Hi, We are looking at a pilot project to test an Oracle database running on Linux/zVM. Currently we have about five applications that run on various HP Unix servers. Each of these applications connect to their own Oracle instance. Each instance is about 300GB, so we have 1.5TB for the databases. Our test would be to move the five Oracle instances to a Linux/zVM server running on an IFL on a z900. We will have one 300GB copy of the database, and each of the five instances would appear to have their own copy since the updates for each instance will be intercepted and written to a private area. The Unix group says that the Oracle instances consume between two and three CPUs on a HP Superdome 750Mhz box. The Project Office wants to know how that consumption would compare to a z900 IFL. We said that we really need to perform the pilot to get the numbers, but they said they really need the numbers before we can do the pilot. Does anyone know how to compare the CPUs between the two platforms? The Project people are also worried that the VM overhead will result in slow response times. We can try and perform a test via a standard script on each box. Has experience in the performance to be gained/lost between the two platforms? On the Oracle side, if I had a database of 300GB with an instance name of ORA1, and I want to change the instance name to ORA2, how many records need to be changed? If the instance name is connected to every record, then this project will have trouble since we are trying to share the 300GB base with multiple instances. We would use the I/O intercept software to write the changes to a private area, and if it needs to update 300GB of data, then it is not a feasible solution. The DBA group is dubious of this concept (read project), so we need to demonstrate that it will work. We do not expect to save money in the hardware costs of this project. The saving should come from the flexibility to deploy new images, and the quicker turnaround for the database restores with the I/O intercept software. However, if we are going to need six IFLs to run this DB, then it is unlikely they will let us proceed no matter how much flexibility we could gain. Any information would be appreciated. Thanks, Ken Vance Amadeus -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: need to compare apples to oranges (HP Unix CPU to zVM IFL CPU with Oracle)
On Tue, 2004-07-13 at 09:13, Ken Vance wrote: Does anyone know how to compare the CPUs between the two platforms? There's no real good way except for actually testing a representative workload. The Project people are also worried that the VM overhead will result in slow response times. We can try and perform a test via a standard script on each box. Has experience in the performance to be gained/lost between the two platforms? VM overhead is minimal. 5% is the figure I usually hear--it certainly is a worthwhile tradeoff for the flexibility VM gives you. Adam -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: need to compare apples to oranges (HP Unix CPU to zVM IFL CPU with Oracle)
IBM offers some comparison engines for this type of workload when moving to a z/series. The more (accurate) data you can get from the HP Unix servers the closer IBM CPU and memory requirement will be to reality. IBM I'm sure would be glad to help. Don't think CP overhead will be a limiting factor. David Kreuter We are looking at a pilot project to test an Oracle database running on Linux/zVM. Currently we have about five applications that run on various HP Unix servers. Each of these applications connect to their own Oracle instance. Each instance is about 300GB, so we have 1.5TB for the databases. Our test would be to move the five Oracle instances to a Linux/zVM server running on an IFL on a z900. We will have one 300GB copy of the database, and each of the five instances would appear to have their own copy since the updates for each instance will be intercepted and written to a private area. The Unix group says that the Oracle instances consume between two and three CPUs on a HP Superdome 750Mhz box. The Project Office wants to know how that consumption would compare to a z900 IFL. We said that we really need to perform the pilot to get the numbers, but they said they really need the numbers before we can do the pilot. Does anyone know how to compare the CPUs between the two platforms? The Project people are also worried that the VM overhead will result in slow response times. We can try and perform a test via a standard script on each box. Has experience in the performance to be gained/lost between the two platforms? On the Oracle side, if I had a database of 300GB with an instance name of ORA1, and I want to change the instance name to ORA2, how many records need to be changed? If the instance name is connected to every record, then this project will have trouble since we are trying to share the 300GB base with multiple instances. We would use the I/O intercept software to write the changes to a private area, and if it needs to update 300GB of data, then it is not a feasible solution. The DBA group is dubious of this concept (read project), so we need to demonstrate that it will work. We do not expect to save money in the hardware costs of this project. The saving should come from the flexibility to deploy new images, and the quicker turnaround for the database restores with the I/O intercept software. However, if we are going to need six IFLs to run this DB, then it is unlikely they will let us proceed no matter how much flexibility we could gain. Any information would be appreciated. Thanks, Ken Vance Amadeus -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: need to compare apples to oranges (HP Unix CPU to zVM IFL CPU with Oracle)
Ken, IBM has a couple of modleing tools available to size the workload on zLinux and IFLs/Memory. If you have a locak IBM rep or business partner rep You may want to ask about the Size390 or New Workload sizing that IBM Techline performs. This service is no cost and can assist in getting an estimate to the z900 requirements. If you do not have these contacts, let me know and we can discuss off-list. ---Original Message--- From: Linux on 390 Port Date: 07/13/04 10:14:48 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: need to compare apples to oranges (HP Unix CPU to zVM IFL CPU with Oracle) Hi, We are looking at a pilot project to test an Oracle database running on Linux/zVM. Currently we have about five applications that run on various HP Unix servers. Each of these applications connect to their own Oracle instance. Each instance is about 300GB, so we have 1.5TB for the databases. Our test would be to move the five Oracle instances to a Linux/zVM server running on an IFL on a z900. We will have one 300GB copy of the database, and each of the five instances would appear to have their own copy since the updates for each instance will be intercepted and written to a private area. The Unix group says that the Oracle instances consume between two and three CPUs on a HP Superdome 750Mhz box. The Project Office wants to know how that consumption would compare to a z900 IFL. We said that we really need to perform the pilot to get the numbers, but they said they really need the numbers before we can do the pilot. Does anyone know how to compare the CPUs between the two platforms? The Project people are also worried that the VM overhead will result in slow response times. We can try and perform a test via a standard script on each box. Has experience in the performance to be gained/lost between the two platforms? On the Oracle side, if I had a database of 300GB with an instance name of ORA1, and I want to change the instance name to ORA2, how many records need to be changed? If the instance name is connected to every record, then this project will have trouble since we are trying to share the 300GB base with multiple instances. We would use the I/O intercept software to write the changes to a private area, and if it needs to update 300GB of data, then it is not a feasible solution. The DBA group is dubious of this concept (read project), so we need to demonstrate that it will work. We do not expect to save money in the hardware costs of this project. The saving should come from the flexibility to deploy new images, and the quicker turnaround for the database restores with the I/O intercept software. However, if we are going to need six IFLs to run this DB, then it is unlikely they will let us proceed no matter how much flexibility we could gain. Any information would be appreciated. Thanks, Ken Vance Amadeus -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390IMSTP.gif
Re: need to compare apples to oranges (HP Unix CPU to zVM IFL CPU with Oracle)
Well, you've come to the right place :) We've just migrated our HP-UX Oracle server to Linux on zSeries. We had an N-4000 with two CPU's (440mhz) PA-RISC 8500. It was far overloaded. It is currently using about 95% of one IFL. -Original Message- From: richard truett [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 10:22 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: need to compare apples to oranges (HP Unix CPU to zVM IFL CPU with Oracle) File: ATT100517.txtFile: IMSTP.gif -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: need to compare apples to oranges (HP Unix CPU to zVM IFL CPU with Oracle)
Ken, Richard is on the right track here. Short of a Size390 sizing I can tell you that the range of relative capacity between a z900 is quite broad. The actual result will depend on what kind of workload is being done (query only, some updates, heavy transactional), the cache working set size (how much stress the workload puts on the hardware caches), and the usage(what is the peak utilization and does the cpu utilization for the various DB's peak simultaneously?). Size390 will send you a questionaire which will allow Techline to assess the workload and utilization conversion factors for your case.Your IBM rep should be able to put you in touch with a FTSS (field techie) who can either put you in touch with Techline or run a quicksizer tool to give you a first guess. If you don't have an IBM rep email [EMAIL PROTECTED] and let me know where you are located. Joe Temple Sr. Certified IT Specialist [EMAIL PROTECTED] 845-435-6301 295/6301 cell 914-706-5211 home 845-338-8794 richard truett [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] .netcc: Sent by: Linux onSubject: Re: need to compare apples to oranges (HP Unix CPU to zVM IFL CPU with 390 Port Oracle) [EMAIL PROTECTED] IST.EDU 07/13/2004 11:21 AM Please respond to Linux on 390 Port Ken, IBM has a couple of modleing tools available to size the workload on zLinux and IFLs/Memory. If you have a locak IBM rep or business partner rep You may want to ask about the Size390 or New Workload sizing that IBM Techline performs. This service is no cost and can assist in getting an estimate to the z900 requirements. If you do not have these contacts, let me know and we can discuss off-list. ---Original Message--- From: Linux on 390 Port Date: 07/13/04 10:14:48 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: need to compare apples to oranges (HP Unix CPU to zVM IFL CPU with Oracle) Hi, We are looking at a pilot project to test an Oracle database running on Linux/zVM. Currently we have about five applications that run on various HP Unix servers. Each of these applications connect to their own Oracle instance. Each instance is about 300GB, so we have 1.5TB for the databases. Our test would be to move the five Oracle instances to a Linux/zVM server running on an IFL on a z900. We will have one 300GB copy of the database, and each of the five instances would appear to have their own copy since the updates for each instance will be intercepted and written to a private area. The Unix group says that the Oracle instances consume between two and three CPUs on a HP Superdome 750Mhz box. The Project Office wants to know how that consumption would compare to a z900 IFL. We said that we really need to perform the pilot to get the numbers, but they said they really need the numbers before we can do the pilot. Does anyone know how to compare the CPUs between the two platforms? The Project people are also worried that the VM overhead will result in slow response times. We can try and perform a test via a standard script on each box. Has experience in the performance to be gained/lost between the two platforms? On the Oracle side, if I had a database of 300GB with an instance name of ORA1, and I want to change the instance name to ORA2, how many records need to be changed? If the instance name is connected to every record, then this project will have trouble since we are trying to share the 300GB base with multiple instances. We would use the I/O intercept software to write the changes to a private area, and if it needs to update 300GB of data, then it is not a feasible solution. The DBA group is dubious of this concept (read project), so we need to demonstrate that it will work. We do not expect to save money in the hardware costs of this project. The saving should come from the flexibility to deploy new images, and the quicker turnaround for the database restores with the I/O intercept software. However, if we are going to need six IFLs to run this DB, then it is unlikely they will let us proceed no matter how much flexibility we could gain. Any information would be appreciated. Thanks, Ken Vance Amadeus -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit
