Re: zSeries and Laptop
Thanks to all who replied What I have asked for is a laptop with 2 HDD's one for the business and one for Linux , this I can then manage via a boot manager, I will have to wait and see what gets authorised . Thanks Gerard __ For information about the Standard Bank group visit our web site www.standardbank.co.za __ Disclaimer and confidentiality note Everything in this e-mail and any attachments relating to the official business of Standard Bank Group Limited is proprietary to the group. It is confidential, legally privileged and protected by law. Standard Bank does not own and endorse any other content. Views and opinions are those of the sender unless clearly stated as being that of the group. The person addressed in the e-mail is the sole authorised recipient. Please notify the sender immediately if it has unintentionally reached you and do not read, disclose or use the content in any way. Standard Bank can not assure that the integrity of this communication has been maintained nor that it is free of errors, virus, interception or interference. ___
zSeries and Laptop
Hi to all We are looking to start a Proof of Concept (POC) of Linux on zSeries very soon , to aid my learning curve I want to install a Linux partition on my laptop, are there any ideas as to what distribution I should install , or does it not make any difference . For the sake if discussion , SuSE 8 on zSeries , and 8.2 on laptop , any problems here. This would be to facilitate the Linux specific learning , I understand (or starting to ) the nuances of using Linux Zseries (ctc's etc etc). Thanks Gerard Ceruti __ For information about the Standard Bank group visit our web site www.standardbank.co.za __ Disclaimer and confidentiality note Everything in this e-mail and any attachments relating to the official business of Standard Bank Group Limited is proprietary to the group. It is confidential, legally privileged and protected by law. Standard Bank does not own and endorse any other content. Views and opinions are those of the sender unless clearly stated as being that of the group. The person addressed in the e-mail is the sole authorised recipient. Please notify the sender immediately if it has unintentionally reached you and do not read, disclose or use the content in any way. Standard Bank can not assure that the integrity of this communication has been maintained nor that it is free of errors, virus, interception or interference. ___
Re: zSeries and Laptop
On Fri, 20 Jun 2003, Ceruti, Gerard G wrote: Hi to all We are looking to start a Proof of Concept (POC) of Linux on zSeries very soon , to aid my learning curve I want to install a Linux partition on my laptop, are there any ideas as to what distribution I should install , or does it not make any difference . For the sake if discussion , SuSE 8 on zSeries , and 8.2 on laptop , any problems here. This would be to facilitate the Linux specific learning , I understand (or starting to ) the nuances of using Linux Zseries (ctc's etc etc). If you plan to use SuSE on z, then SuSE on the laptop makes good sense. If RHL, then RHL 7.3 (not 8.0 or 9) If you don't know, then Debian, Hercules and try whatever you can on Hercules. Be aware that Herc won't be fast: see mty benchmarking in the last 2-3 days for that;-) Be aware that Debian's installer isn't overly friendly, but I think that once you get it up things will proceed more quickly. -- Cheers John. Join the Linux Support by Small Businesses list at http://mail.computerdatasafe.com.au/mailman/listinfo/lssb
Re: zSeries and Laptop
On Fri, 20 Jun 2003 11:55:16 +0200, Ceruti, Gerard G wrote: Hi to all We are looking to start a Proof of Concept (POC) of Linux on zSeries very soon , to aid my learning curve I want to install a Linux partition on my laptop, are there any ideas as to what distribution I should install , or does it not make any difference . For the sake if discussion , SuSE 8 on zSeries , and 8.2 on laptop , any problems here. This would be to facilitate the Linux specific learning , I understand (or starting to ) the nuances of using Linux Zseries (ctc's etc etc). If /all/ you want is to learn about Linux, just install any distribution - SuSE is not bad. best regards, Per Jessen, [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://timian.jessen.ch - an analog report-formatter using XSLT
Re: zSeries and Laptop
I would recommend to install Linux/390 on your laptop under hercules (http://www.conmicro.cx/hercules/). Hercules runs under Windows or better under a Intel Linux distribution. It works very well (e.g. is able to simulate 64-bit z-series). However, if you will run SLES 8 on the mainframe, I would use Suse 8.2 on the Laptop to have a comparable system. Under Suse 8.2 you could install hercules und run your SLES 8 there to become acquainted with it. Don't know if license issues forbid you to run SLES8/390 on your laptop, but you can also download other 390 distributions from the Web and try them. Have fun with Hercules, Herbert At 10:55 20.06.2003, Ceruti, Gerard G wrote: Hi to all We are looking to start a Proof of Concept (POC) of Linux on zSeries very soon , to aid my learning curve I want to install a Linux partition on my laptop, are there any ideas as to what distribution I should install , or does it not make any difference . For the sake if discussion , SuSE 8 on zSeries , and 8.2 on laptop , any problems here. This would be to facilitate the Linux specific learning , I understand (or starting to ) the nuances of using Linux Zseries (ctc's etc etc). Thanks Gerard Ceruti
Re: zSeries and Laptop
I'm infatuated with Knoppix Linux. I agree with the person that mentioned if you want to learn Linux almost any distro will do. Knoppix would be a great learning tool if your laptop already has an OS on it that you don't want to depart with because it runs off of the CD but you can still write to the hard drive. Matt Lashley Idaho State Controller's Office
Re: zSeries and Laptop
Well, there are two approaches. Either one or both together works. 1. Install any distribution on your laptop. One that has panels to make things easier, really helps in getting Linux up and possibly usefull. (doesn't IBM have a mainframe that has Linux accounts? It may be for developers, but even a developer has to get his feet wet sometime.) Then start to branch out, away from the panels to understand what actually goes on. I would have 2 copies installed on the laptop, with Partition Magic used. Just because with PM, you can effectively DDR one PC partition to another partition, I.E. create and refresh your test system that you can bomb at will. 2. Determine what one you will want to do into prodution with, and choose that one. So do the cost of the product, the maintenance costs (and remember your time has a cost associated with it), what happens when you get hit with a virus and your production system is down. You may want to consider a vender that has (if purchased) 24X7 phone support.) May not need it now or for a few years, but when that time comes, it is easier than converting to a different distribution to get it.) Also consider what applications you may want to run and the distribuitions they support. Look at the Linux websites (especially IBM's to see what distros are supported with DB2, Websphere, DB2 Connect, etc). And also any application venders, PeopleSoft etc. You may find you don't really have any options. Perhaps do the first one, and trash it when the study on the second option is completed. I think the full professional desktop version of Linux 8.1 only cost me $79. If you are a REXX type, install Regina (the Rexx for non-IBM platforms). At least then you have something you are familar with that you can play and make use of while using Linux. FWIW, I did the same thing. I picked Suse (with option 1), and as it turned out, worked with the Option 2 concerns. But I really didn't get to know/understand Linux until I was forced to put it to use. Lots of test systems. Lots of failures (in test, of course). Tom Duerbusch THD Consulting [EMAIL PROTECTED] 06/20 4:55 AM Hi to all We are looking to start a Proof of Concept (POC) of Linux on zSeries very soon , to aid my learning curve I want to install a Linux partition on my laptop, are there any ideas as to what distribution I should install , or does it not make any difference . For the sake if discussion , SuSE 8 on zSeries , and 8.2 on laptop , any problems here. This would be to facilitate the Linux specific learning , I understand (or starting to ) the nuances of using Linux Zseries (ctc's etc etc). Thanks Gerard Ceruti __ For information about the Standard Bank group visit our web site www.standardbank.co.za __ Disclaimer and confidentiality note Everything in this e-mail and any attachments relating to the official business of Standard Bank Group Limited is proprietary to the group. It is confidential, legally privileged and protected by law. Standard Bank does not own and endorse any other content. Views and opinions are those of the sender unless clearly stated as being that of the group. The person addressed in the e-mail is the sole authorised recipient. Please notify the sender immediately if it has unintentionally reached you and do not read, disclose or use the content in any way. Standard Bank can not assure that the integrity of this communication has been maintained nor that it is free of errors, virus, interception or interference. ___
Re: zSeries and Laptop
On Fri, 20 Jun 2003, Matt Lashley/SCO wrote: I'm infatuated with Knoppix Linux. I agree with the person that mentioned if you want to learn Linux almost any distro will do. Knoppix would be a great learning tool if your laptop already has an OS on it that you don't want to depart with because it runs off of the CD but you can still write to the hard drive. The disadvantage of Knoppix for this is you don't get to do maintenance or significant configuration. You just boot and go: great for using it and experiencing the usability of Linux, not so great for learning to be some kind of Linux administrator. -- Cheers John. Join the Linux Support by Small Businesses list at http://mail.computerdatasafe.com.au/mailman/listinfo/lssb
Re: zSeries and Laptop
On Sat, Jun 21, 2003 at 02:53:00AM +0800, John Summerfield wrote: On Fri, 20 Jun 2003, Tom Duerbusch wrote: Well, there are two approaches. Either one or both together works. 1. Install any distribution on your laptop. One that has panels to make things easier, really helps in getting Linux up and possibly usefull. (doesn't IBM have a mainframe that has Linux accounts? It may be for developers, but even a developer has to get his feet wet sometime.) Then start to branch out, away from the panels to understand what actually goes on. One important thing: remote administration. Try doing everything from a different computer. Working with the linux/s390 as a nice KDE desktop is theoretically possible, but nt a good idea. I would have 2 copies installed on the laptop, with Partition Magic used. Just because with PM, you can effectively DDR one PC partition to another partition, I.E. create and refresh your test system that you can bomb at will. If you want a nice (though non-free) program to help you with that, there is vmware. You don't need pm to do backups. You _might_ need it to resize your partition, but as far as possible use Linux tools. I resized a Windows 98 partition using FIPS which came with Red Hat Linux. I backed uo the whole drive first, using dd to copy it to a file across the LAN, gzip to compress the file and cdrecord (maybe mkiosfs too) to create a CD. All standard Linux tools. Also try parted and (for the GUI touch) qtparted. -- Tzafrir Cohen +---+ http://www.technion.ac.il/~tzafrir/ |vim is a mutt's best friend| mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] +---+
Re: zSeries and Laptop
On Fri, 20 Jun 2003, Tzafrir Cohen wrote: On Sat, Jun 21, 2003 at 02:53:00AM +0800, John Summerfield wrote: On Fri, 20 Jun 2003, Tom Duerbusch wrote: Well, there are two approaches. Either one or both together works. 1. Install any distribution on your laptop. One that has panels to make things easier, really helps in getting Linux up and possibly usefull. (doesn't IBM have a mainframe that has Linux accounts? It may be for developers, but even a developer has to get his feet wet sometime.) Then start to branch out, away from the panels to understand what actually goes on. One important thing: remote administration. Try doing everything from a different computer. Working with the linux/s390 as a nice KDE desktop is theoretically possible, but nt a good idea. I would have 2 copies installed on the laptop, with Partition Magic used. Just because with PM, you can effectively DDR one PC partition to another partition, I.E. create and refresh your test system that you can bomb at will. If you want a nice (though non-free) program to help you with that, there is vmware. vmware is available as a free demo. Buy, why do you need it for this? It would be good to have (if the laptop is beefy enough) because you can run vmware on Windows, Linux inside vmware, but I don't see how you need vmware to backup/restore your system. -- Cheers John. Join the Linux Support by Small Businesses list at http://mail.computerdatasafe.com.au/mailman/listinfo/lssb
Re: zSeries and Laptop
On Sat, Jun 21, 2003 at 02:53:00AM +0800, John Summerfield wrote: You don't need pm to do backups. You _might_ need it to resize your partition, but as far as possible use Linux tools. I resized a Windows 98 partition using FIPS which came with Red Hat Linux. I backed uo the whole drive first, using dd to copy it to a file across the LAN, gzip to compress the file and cdrecord (maybe mkiosfs too) to create a CD. GNU parted works nicely for this nowadays. It's included in Debian, and on Knoppix CDs. btw There's an open source program called User Mode Linux, hosted at sf.net. Like VM it lets you run several Linux instances simultaneously on one box. AFAIK it's only available for IA32, though someone was porting it to PPC. I used it to run Red Hat Linux 7.0 on Red Hat Linux 6.x. There is also a semi-functional port of UML to Win32, interestingly enough. -- - mdz
Re: zSeries and Laptop
Where I agree on many accounts, I'm looking at it from someone that doesn't know Linux or Unix. So I try to break down the learning curve into smaller pieces. With Partition Magic, I don't have to know Linux or how to do it, PM will just do it. A person can learn about how to do it the Linux way, later. Go with what you know. If you know REXX, don't spend the time learning Perl. Yes, eventually you will learn Perl as so many scripts are written in it. But using what you already know, allows you to make use of the system and have some reason for being on it. resized a Windows 98 partition using FIPS which came with Red Hat Linux. I backed uo the whole drive first, using dd to copy it to a file across the LAN, gzip to compress the file and cdrecord (maybe mkiosfs too) to create a CD. For someone that didn't know Linux, the only words reconizable are Windows 98 and CD. I would think it would be a challenge for someone that didn't know anything about Linux, and just installed Linux, to do what you just said, in 8 hours. At this stage of the game most don't know how to get help, much less to a How-To. After 4 hours, frustration tends to occur. The person stops working on this and goes to something they can handle. Classes on the other hand, tend to break things into hour increments. Things are broken down into small enough hunks that you learn and do something within the same hour. As far as suppliers go. My point was look at what distributions the suppliers are supporting on the mainframe. When the option is 6 of one or a half dozen of the other, why put a distribution on your laptop that you wouldn't use on the mainframe. When you are investing your time, invest wisely. It is worth more than money. Tom Duerbusch THD Consulting [EMAIL PROTECTED] 06/20 1:53 PM On Fri, 20 Jun 2003, Tom Duerbusch wrote: Well, there are two approaches. Either one or both together works. 1. Install any distribution on your laptop. One that has panels to make things easier, really helps in getting Linux up and possibly usefull. (doesn't IBM have a mainframe that has Linux accounts? It may be for developers, but even a developer has to get his feet wet sometime.) Then start to branch out, away from the panels to understand what actually goes on. I would have 2 copies installed on the laptop, with Partition Magic used. Just because with PM, you can effectively DDR one PC partition to another partition, I.E. create and refresh your test system that you can bomb at will. You don't need pm to do backups. You _might_ need it to resize your partition, but as far as possible use Linux tools. I resized a Windows 98 partition using FIPS which came with Red Hat Linux. I backed uo the whole drive first, using dd to copy it to a file across the LAN, gzip to compress the file and cdrecord (maybe mkiosfs too) to create a CD. All standard Linux tools. 2. Determine what one you will want to do into prodution with, and choose that one. So do the cost of the product, the maintenance costs (and remember your time has a cost associated with it), what happens when you get hit with a virus and your production system is down. You may want to consider a vender that has (if purchased) 24X7 phone support.) May not need it now or for a few years, but when that time In a few years the picture will be very different: different supplirs, possibly some of the current ones gone, maybe some new ones. Turbolinux was one of the first on S/390, but it hasn't had much mention here for ages now. comes, it is easier than converting to a different distribution to get it.) Also consider what applications you may want to run and the distribuitions they support. Look at the Linux websites (especially IBM's to see what distros are supported with DB2, Websphere, DB2 Connect, etc). And also any application venders, PeopleSoft etc. There too the picture's changing rapidly. According to articles on The Register in the ast 24 hours, Oracle just loves linux, PeopleSoft J D Edwards are converting their apps to zLinux as fast as they can. You may find you don't really have any options. Perhaps do the first one, and trash it when the study on the second option is completed. I think the full professional desktop version of Linux 8.1 only cost me $79. There is not distribution of Linux called Linux. Most preperly that term refers to the kernel, currently at 2.4.20. I imagine that term refers to SuSE Linux - there's no release 8.1 from Red Hat, and Debian's at 3.0. If you are a REXX type, install Regina (the Rexx for non-IBM platforms). At least then you have something you are familar with that you can play and make use of while using Linux. I'm in two minds about REXX on Linux. I guess if you're using it on everything else, then using it on Linux is sensible. Otherwise, I prefer to use tools you can expect to find wherever you go on Linux, and that means bash (shell), perl and maybe python.
Re: zSeries and Laptop
On Fri, 20 Jun 2003, Tom Duerbusch wrote: Where I agree on many accounts, I'm looking at it from someone that doesn't know Linux or Unix. So I try to break down the learning curve into smaller pieces. With Partition Magic, I don't have to know Linux or how to do it, PM will just do it. A person can learn about how to do it the Linux way, later. Go with what you know. If you know REXX, don't spend the time learning Perl. Yes, eventually you will learn Perl as so many scripts are written in it. But using what you already know, allows you to make use of the system and have some reason for being on it. resized a Windows 98 partition using FIPS which came with Red Hat Linux. I backed uo the whole drive first, using dd to copy it to a file across the LAN, gzip to compress the file and cdrecord (maybe mkiosfs too) to create a CD. For someone that didn't know Linux, the only words reconizable are Windows 98 and CD. I would think it would be a challenge for someone that didn't know anything about Linux, and just installed Linux, to do what you just said, in 8 hours. At this stage of the game most don't know how to get help, much less to a How-To. I don't know about that. It would be a challenge if you can't read documentation. FWIW FIPS is a DOS program. I was a little inaccurate to describe as a Linux tool, its one of a few DOS programs to get you started if your sole operating system is Windows or DOS. Lots of people used to use DOS, even my wife and children (when they were very young). After 4 hours, frustration tends to occur. The person stops working on this and goes to something they can handle. Classes on the other hand, tend to break things into hour increments. Things are broken down into small enough hunks that you learn and do something within the same hour. I think it's fair to assume most people here are fairly comfortable with computers, are able to read documentation, know how to backup their computers. I used Linux tools to backup the Windows computer because I don't know what Windows tools there might be. I have also used Linux to copy Windows 95 from one computer to another (though I don't recall how I made it work when it got there!). As far as suppliers go. My point was look at what distributions the suppliers are supporting on the mainframe. When the option is 6 of one or a half dozen of the other, why put a distribution on your laptop that you wouldn't use on the mainframe. When you are investing your time, invest wisely. It is worth more than money. I thought you were talking about changing distributions;-). I always counsel to use on your desktop what you think you want to use on the mainframe. Another good plan is to find an aged computer and use that. Pentiums will do, Pentium IIs are terrific, Pentium IIIs are overkill. Probably, you should have 64 Mbytes or more of RAM, especially if you want to run KDE or Gnome. I don't think RHL will install in GUI mode in less than 128 with swap enabled. OTOH yesterday I installed Debian on a Powermac 7300/200 with 32 Mbtes of RAM. Cost me about $20. I've also got here some 680x0 MACs, a few early Sparcs. All can run Linux, and Debian can be had for them all. If I find an RS/6000 or a Digial Alpha, those can run Debian too. All can be used to set up a basic Linux system to provide filesharing (the powermacs have 2 Gbytes of disk) and printing to a few Windows computers. -- Cheers John. Join the Linux Support by Small Businesses list at http://mail.computerdatasafe.com.au/mailman/listinfo/lssb
