[LAD] Routing signals in mixer (Ardour, Qtractor)
Hello! Both Ardour and Qtractor are capable sequencers. Ardour is getting midi soon, Qtractor is getting automation. All of this is good news. I was wondering if the devs are interested in implementing routing signals in a mixer as the next important priority. This would allow not only effects chains which is usually very useful, but also usage of vocoders. At the moment it is impossible to use a vocoder plugin inside Ardour or Qtractor. The beauty of vocoders is that they can be used not only on voice, but as electronic instruments as well. I am often using them to create beautiful textures, but in order for the result to be good, I need to automate parameters of the vocoder. LADSPA Vocoder, for instance, is capable of generating very beautiful sounds, but only if you can change the bands in real time, fade the in and out. Of course, sometimes it can be recorded live, but in many cases it needs to be automated and stored in a project. Tell me what you think. -- Louigi Verona http://www.louigiverona.ru/ ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [ANN] Drumstick 0.4.0 released
On Wednesday, July 7, 2010, Niels Mayer wrote: Thanks for making these updates available! You are welcome. Will http://sourceforge.net/projects/kmid2/ and http://sourceforge.net/projects/kmetronome/ be updated to include the latest drumstick? The latest drumstick library sources and headers have been included already in kmid repository (at svn.kde.org). About the other projects, the latest sources will be bundled in future released tarballs, until some day when I will decide to stop bundling it and unconditionally require the external shared libraries. I'm including drumstick in the source tarballs of some projects to make it easier for users to try a single program, downloading a single tarball and building it from sources. Packagers maintaining several programs in a repository should link the shared libraries instead. Or should I just drop in the new drumstick dir and recompile? kmid-svn/drumstick/README says This is a local copy, in case the standalone package isn't found. -- since I have fedora package 'drumstick-0.3.1-2.fc12.x86_64' installed, should I just deinstall that package and install drumstick 0.4.0 from source to get the latest drumstick lib running in kmid and kmetronome? This release is binary compatible with drumstick-0.3.x, so it would be possible to replace the old libraries with the new ones, but I don't recommend uninstalling the RPM packages because this is probably going to trigger a removal process on the RPM packages depending on it. In Fedora, only kmid depends on drumstick, as kmidimon is distributed by CCRMA statically linked to an older library version, and it is an ancient kmidimon anyway. My advice is to contact the package maintainers and suggest to upgrade their packages. FYI, I finally figured out that I have to check http://cia.vc/stats/project/kde/kmid to see what's going on with that project (due to Kmid being in KDE's trunk/extragear/multimedia), but to see what's happening in the library, http://drumstick.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/drumstick/trunk/?view=log and then http://kmetronome.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/kmetronome/trunk/?view=log http://kmidimon.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/kmidimon/trunk/?view=log for the additional apps There are also RSS feeds available at sourceforge.net, freshmeat.net and cia.vc for these projects, with several levels of detail and customization. Readers for the KDE desktop include Akregator and several Plasma widgets. BTW, is http://kmetronome.sourceforge.net/kaseq.shtml ( https://sourceforge.net/projects/kmetronome/files/kaseq/0.3.1/kaseq-0.3.1.t ar.bz2/download ) an application that predates drumstick? Will it be updated to use drumstick or is drumstick not necessary for the kinds of operations performed by kaseq? Yes, kaseq is much older than drumstick. It is a DCOP service for KDE3, and will be migrated to KDE4 some day as a DBus service using drumstick. Regards, Pedro ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Routing signals in mixer (Ardour, Qtractor)
On Wed, 2010-07-07 at 11:49 +0400, Louigi Verona wrote: Hello! Both Ardour and Qtractor are capable sequencers. Ardour is getting midi soon, Qtractor is getting automation. All of this is good news. I was wondering if the devs are interested in implementing routing signals in a mixer as the next important priority. This would allow not only effects chains which is usually very useful, but also usage of vocoders. At the moment it is impossible to use a vocoder plugin inside Ardour or Qtractor. The beauty of vocoders is that they can be used not only on voice, but as electronic instruments as well. I am often using them to create beautiful textures, but in order for the result to be good, I need to automate parameters of the vocoder. LADSPA Vocoder, for instance, is capable of generating very beautiful sounds, but only if you can change the bands in real time, fade the in and out. Of course, sometimes it can be recorded live, but in many cases it needs to be automated and stored in a project. Tell me what you think. You should send the link of a demonstration, how you wish to be able to use a vocoder, but only this mail. I know what you wish to be able to do with Linux and I'm sure Rui knows it too, but perhaps you should send more details to LAD. Full ACK regarding to your wish (because I know what possibilities you need, but your needs are not clear by this email, IIRC you once send a very good YouTube example to another list, unfortunately I need to restore the mails, because a HDD is broken, so please post it here too). - Ralf ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Routing signals in mixer (Ardour, Qtractor)
El 07/07/2010 09:49 AM, Louigi Verona escribió: Hello! Both Ardour and Qtractor are capable sequencers. Ardour is getting midi soon, Qtractor is getting automation. All of this is good news. I was wondering if the devs are interested in implementing routing signals in a mixer as the next important priority. This would allow not only effects chains which is usually very useful, but also usage of vocoders. At the moment it is impossible to use a vocoder plugin inside Ardour or Qtractor. Why not? I don't know in Qtractor, but in Ardour you can do that... For the audio signals, even routing to their inputs mono outputs of other tracks (and/or system inputs), or by sends. And for the controls you have automations. I don't understand the problem... Best regards, Natanael. The beauty of vocoders is that they can be used not only on voice, but as electronic instruments as well. I am often using them to create beautiful textures, but in order for the result to be good, I need to automate parameters of the vocoder. LADSPA Vocoder, for instance, is capable of generating very beautiful sounds, but only if you can change the bands in real time, fade the in and out. Of course, sometimes it can be recorded live, but in many cases it needs to be automated and stored in a project. Tell me what you think. -- Louigi Verona http://www.louigiverona.ru/ ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Routing signals in mixer (Ardour, Qtractor)
Why not? I don't know in Qtractor, but in Ardour you can do that... For the audio signals, even routing to their inputs mono outputs of other tracks (and/or system inputs), or by sends. And for the controls you have automations. I don't understand the problem... Best regards, Natanael. Ardour does not see three inputs of, say, a LADSPA Vocoder. It sees only two. LADSPA Vocoder has three and you need three to create an effect. L.V. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Routing signals in mixer (Ardour, Qtractor)
On Wed, 2010-07-07 at 10:05 +0200, Natanael Olaiz wrote: El 07/07/2010 09:49 AM, Louigi Verona escribió: Hello! Both Ardour and Qtractor are capable sequencers. Ardour is getting midi soon, Qtractor is getting automation. All of this is good news. I was wondering if the devs are interested in implementing routing signals in a mixer as the next important priority. This would allow not only effects chains which is usually very useful, but also usage of vocoders. At the moment it is impossible to use a vocoder plugin inside Ardour or Qtractor. Why not? I don't know in Qtractor, but in Ardour you can do that... For the audio signals, even routing to their inputs mono outputs of other tracks (and/or system inputs), or by sends. And for the controls you have automations. I don't understand the problem... Best regards, Natanael. That's why I asked him to send a link for YouTube. I didn't understand him before too, but his wish is a valid wish, hard to explain on broken English, but easy to understand by this YouTube example I once watched. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Routing signals in mixer (Ardour, Qtractor)
On Wed, 2010-07-07 at 12:07 +0400, Louigi Verona wrote: Why not? I don't know in Qtractor, but in Ardour you can do that... For the audio signals, even routing to their inputs mono outputs of other tracks (and/or system inputs), or by sends. And for the controls you have automations. I don't understand the problem... Best regards, Natanael. Ardour does not see three inputs of, say, a LADSPA Vocoder. It sees only two. LADSPA Vocoder has three and you need three to create an effect. L.V. I guess it was you who once send the YouTube link, so please post it here too, this YouTube video does explain what you need, better than words are able to do ;). ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Routing signals in mixer (Ardour, Qtractor)
Guys, I will try to show it somehow on YouTube, but you can basically watch any video of FL Studio and usage of Fruity Vocoder. It is basically the same for every sequencer out there - a vocoder accepts a modifier in one channel and a carrier in the other. You route other channels into the channel with the vocoder. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91igHV0CwJk I do not know why Ardour sees only two channels of vocoder, so I am not sure what needs to be done. But basically what I would want is to route audio from other tracks of ardour (or external synths) into the track with a vocoder and get the vocoded effect. And use Ardour's automation to automate parameters of the Vocoder. As simple as that. L.V. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Routing signals in mixer (Ardour, Qtractor)
See http://lalists.stanford.edu/lad/2010/05/0369.html where Rui answered: ... tractor, as a plugin host, is currently accepting only the following signal flows: a) audio_fx plugins: audio_in - plugin - audio_out b) instrument plugins: midi_in - plugin - audio_out any other topology is, well, not designated to comply a vocoder plugin is usually an audio_fx with direct midi control, which i'm afraid, is not supported ootb-- it doesn't fit in any of the above categories :( gosh, there was this indirect solution as inserts but, don't go that way. it doesn't work, you'll get just silence :S .. http://lalists.stanford.edu/lad/2010/05/0372.html .. Rui -- any chance qtractor's use cases can be expanded to fit this scenario (which seems pretty common). What about the scenario of a plugin that provides audio in -- MIDI notes (midi pitchtracker, which is part of what's provided in autotalent). Is there a way of separately using it for audio-MIDI input? besides the crash issue, which should not happen in any circumstance, life's cruel however, there's no plan going on in that direction. things can change though, but i will let Paul (i mean ardour3) take the head on this one ;) .. perhaps you should investigate Ardour3 per this reply http://lalists.stanford.edu/lad/2010/05/0371.html .. From: Paul Davis p...@email-addr-hidden ... the goal is to have ardour 3.0 able to do this by the end of next week, just FYI. Niels http://nielsmayer.com ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Routing signals in mixer (Ardour, Qtractor)
Thank you Niels :). Unfortunately I couldn't search my old e-mails, hence the new HDD is in a package 'sitting' on my Yamaha SPX 90II (but mounted to my PC), while the backup of the broken HDD is on an USB stick, so extracting would take too much time for me at the moment ;). But I was sure on some list, we were talking about this or a similar issue. the goal is to have ardour 3.0 able to do this by the end of next week, just FYI. If possible send a link to the developers directory for Ardour3 :). - Ralf ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [LAA] gst123-0.1.2
Hi! On Tue, Jul 06, 2010 at 06:08:23PM -0700, Niels Mayer wrote: On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 2:43 PM, Niels Mayer nielsma...@gmail.com wrote: Question: is there a way to disable checking for pulseaudio for each new file when specifying multiple media files. e.g.: gst123 *.ogg ? For example: do it once at application startup, or even better, a way to prevent it from happening all-together via environment variable, configuration, etc. Best would be some kind of environmental check so that the timeout on socket needn't occur.The timeout significantly slows down operation of the program even when not issuing ^C's. Answering own question: The search for audio devices is bypassed by setting the -a commandline parameter to the ALSA device one wants to use. I wrapped it in a script to use w/ emacs' dired, etc.: #!/bin/sh args=`/bin/ls -d $*` exec gst123 -a alsa=mythcd $args /dev/null The next release, gst123-0.1.3 will have a ~/.gst123rc where you can put audio_output alsa=mythcd which does the thing you want. The changes are in git already. I've used scripts to wrap gst123 before (for crawling directories with find), but usually its better to put the functionality in gst123, because then its available to all users (not just competent script writers). Cu... Stefan -- Stefan Westerfeld, Hamburg/Germany, http://space.twc.de/~stefan ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Routing signals in mixer (Ardour, Qtractor)
El 07/07/2010 10:07 AM, Louigi Verona escribió: Why not? I don't know in Qtractor, but in Ardour you can do that... For the audio signals, even routing to their inputs mono outputs of other tracks (and/or system inputs), or by sends. And for the controls you have automations. I don't understand the problem... Best regards, Natanael. Ardour does not see three inputs of, say, a LADSPA Vocoder. It sees only two. LADSPA Vocoder has three and you need three to create an effect. Ah, ok, now I guess I understood: one of the inputs is MIDI... But you can do the same using just audio signal inputs in the vocoder, and a simple synth with its output connected to one of the vocoder inputs. Right? L.V. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Routing signals in mixer (Ardour, Qtractor)
On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 1:07 PM, Natanael Olaiz nol...@gmail.com wrote: Ardour does not see three inputs of, say, a LADSPA Vocoder. It sees only two. LADSPA Vocoder has three and you need three to create an effect. Ah, ok, now I guess I understood: one of the inputs is MIDI... But you can do the same using just audio signal inputs in the vocoder, and a simple synth with its output connected to one of the vocoder inputs. Right? No, it is not midi, it is audio. Two channels for carrier, one for the modifier (or vice versa, I forget). -- Louigi Verona http://www.louigiverona.ru/ ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Routing signals in mixer (Ardour, Qtractor)
On Wed, 2010-07-07 at 13:12 +0400, Louigi Verona wrote: On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 1:07 PM, Natanael Olaiz nol...@gmail.com wrote: Ardour does not see three inputs of, say, a LADSPA Vocoder. It sees only two. LADSPA Vocoder has three and you need three to create an effect. Ah, ok, now I guess I understood: one of the inputs is MIDI... But you can do the same using just audio signal inputs in the vocoder, and a simple synth with its output connected to one of the vocoder inputs. Right? No, it is not midi, it is audio. Two channels for carrier, one for the modifier (or vice versa, I forget). I GUESS in other words, mono in and stereo out ;)?! ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Routing signals in mixer (Ardour, Qtractor)
I GUESS in other words, mono in and stereo out ;)?! Resp. the modifying signal is mono, but the manipulated signal is stereo in and stereo out?! ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Routing signals in mixer (Ardour, Qtractor)
On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 1:15 PM, Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.netwrote: I GUESS in other words, mono in and stereo out ;)?! I don't remember now, you can use JACK Rack to check this (and if you have LADSPA Vocoder installed) but I think there is 1 stereo input and 1 mono input. -- Louigi Verona http://www.louigiverona.ru/ ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Routing signals in mixer (Ardour, Qtractor)
On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 1:17 PM, Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.netwrote: I GUESS in other words, mono in and stereo out ;)?! Resp. the modifying signal is mono, but the manipulated signal is stereo in and stereo out?! Exactly! -- Louigi Verona http://www.louigiverona.ru/ ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Routing signals in mixer (Ardour, Qtractor)
El 07/07/2010 11:12 AM, Louigi Verona escribió: On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 1:07 PM, Natanael Olaiz nol...@gmail.com mailto:nol...@gmail.com wrote: Ardour does not see three inputs of, say, a LADSPA Vocoder. It sees only two. LADSPA Vocoder has three and you need three to create an effect. Ah, ok, now I guess I understood: one of the inputs is MIDI... But you can do the same using just audio signal inputs in the vocoder, and a simple synth with its output connected to one of the vocoder inputs. Right? No, it is not midi, it is audio. Two channels for carrier, one for the modifier (or vice versa, I forget). So, is strange that Ardour only see 2 inputs... Can you send a link to the plugin that you are testing? -- Louigi Verona http://www.louigiverona.ru/ ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Routing signals in mixer (Ardour, Qtractor)
On Wed, 2010-07-07 at 13:19 +0400, Louigi Verona wrote: On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 1:17 PM, Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote: I GUESS in other words, mono in and stereo out ;)?! Resp. the modifying signal is mono, but the manipulated signal is stereo in and stereo out?! Exactly! Phew! I guess I do understand and I guess you are right that this is an issue for Linux. I don't have much time to concentrate to it now, I'm busy regarding to other stuff at the moment. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Routing signals in mixer (Ardour, Qtractor)
So, is strange that Ardour only see 2 inputs... Can you send a link to the plugin that you are testing? I think at some point Paul said this is indeed the way things are. But you can see for yourself. http://www.sirlab.de/linux/download_vocoder.html -- Louigi Verona http://www.louigiverona.ru/ ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Routing signals in mixer (Ardour, Qtractor)
On 07/07/2010 09:49 AM, Louigi Verona wrote: Hello! Both Ardour and Qtractor are capable sequencers. Ardour is getting midi soon, Qtractor is getting automation. All of this is good news. I was wondering if the devs are interested in implementing routing signals in a mixer as the next important priority. This would allow not only effects chains which is usually very useful, but also usage of vocoders. At the moment it is impossible to use a vocoder plugin inside Ardour or Qtractor. The beauty of vocoders is that they can be used not only on voice, but as electronic instruments as well. I am often using them to create beautiful textures, but in order for the result to be good, I need to automate parameters of the vocoder. LADSPA Vocoder, for instance, is capable of generating very beautiful sounds, but only if you can change the bands in real time, fade the in and out. Of course, sometimes it can be recorded live, but in many cases it needs to be automated and stored in a project. Tell me what you think. Hello Louigi, I think it can already be done: - In Qtractor create four tracks with corresponding buses: synth (stereo), carrier (mono), vocoder (3 channels) and vocoder-mix (stereo) - The vocoder track needs a corresponding bus with three channels, one for the carrier and one for the incoming signal - Have all tracks output their signal to their corresponding buses, except for vocoder-mix of course, have it output to the Master output bus - Load the vocoder LADSPA plugin into the vocoder track. I don't know which input is the carrier and which one the stereo input but I think you'll figure that out yourself - Make the connections in QjackCtl's or Qtractor's Connections window: connect the synth output bus ports to the vocoder input bus ports and connect the carrier output bus port to the third vocoder input bus port. Then connect two of the vocoder output bus ports (the ones that output a signal, one of the outputs will be silent I guess) to the vocoder-mix input bus ports. Not sure if it works, but I managed to set up a similar effect chain when it comes to using sidechain compression in Qtractor with the SC3 LADSPA compressor (http://linux.autostatic.com/images/2010-07/sidechain.ogg). Works like a charm so it should work with a vocoder plugin too. Best, Jeremy ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Routing signals in mixer (Ardour, Qtractor)
On 07/07/2010 11:32 AM, Jeremy Jongepier wrote: On 07/07/2010 09:49 AM, Louigi Verona wrote: Hello! Both Ardour and Qtractor are capable sequencers. Ardour is getting midi soon, Qtractor is getting automation. All of this is good news. I was wondering if the devs are interested in implementing routing signals in a mixer as the next important priority. This would allow not only effects chains which is usually very useful, but also usage of vocoders. At the moment it is impossible to use a vocoder plugin inside Ardour or Qtractor. The beauty of vocoders is that they can be used not only on voice, but as electronic instruments as well. I am often using them to create beautiful textures, but in order for the result to be good, I need to automate parameters of the vocoder. LADSPA Vocoder, for instance, is capable of generating very beautiful sounds, but only if you can change the bands in real time, fade the in and out. Of course, sometimes it can be recorded live, but in many cases it needs to be automated and stored in a project. Tell me what you think. Hello Louigi, I think it can already be done: - In Qtractor create four tracks with corresponding buses: synth (stereo), carrier (mono), vocoder (3 channels) and vocoder-mix (stereo) - The vocoder track needs a corresponding bus with three channels, one for the carrier and one for the incoming signal - Have all tracks output their signal to their corresponding buses, except for vocoder-mix of course, have it output to the Master output bus - Load the vocoder LADSPA plugin into the vocoder track. I don't know which input is the carrier and which one the stereo input but I think you'll figure that out yourself - Make the connections in QjackCtl's or Qtractor's Connections window: connect the synth output bus ports to the vocoder input bus ports and connect the carrier output bus port to the third vocoder input bus port. Then connect two of the vocoder output bus ports (the ones that output a signal, one of the outputs will be silent I guess) to the vocoder-mix input bus ports. Not sure if it works, but I managed to set up a similar effect chain when it comes to using sidechain compression in Qtractor with the SC3 LADSPA compressor (http://linux.autostatic.com/images/2010-07/sidechain.ogg). Works like a charm so it should work with a vocoder plugin too. Best, Jeremy Instead of carrier I meant formant of course :$ Jeremy ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Routing signals in mixer (Ardour, Qtractor)
On 07/07/2010 11:38 AM, Natanael Olaiz wrote: El 07/07/2010 11:25 AM, Louigi Verona escribió: So, is strange that Ardour only see 2 inputs... Can you send a link to the plugin that you are testing? I think at some point Paul said this is indeed the way things are. But you can see for yourself. http://www.sirlab.de/linux/download_vocoder.html You only have 2 audio inputs (formant and carrier)!! Yes, just checked it, 2 in and one out (vocoder-ladspa-0.3) Best, Jeremy ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Feature request for FIL-Plugins
On Wed, Jul 07, 2010 at 01:18:40PM +0200, Jostein Chr. Andersen wrote: I'm a very happy user of the decent FIL-equalizer and so far, it serves all my needs for mixing down mono channels in mixing situations. The problem is that a Stereo EQ is also needed from time to time, for example with drums; I'm thinking about overhead channels. I use to make on bus for the drums and an additional bus for the OH channels (so left and right OH channels can use common hipass, compressor and EQs, and deesser (and so on)), then every drum item is feed into the drum bus and OH's is feed it's stereo bus and from there into the drum bus; this is probably the most common way to do it. So my humble (I hope) request is: Is it possible to make a stereo version of FIL-equalizer and can someone implement it? That would make the mixing situation very much better. If you mean the LADSPA plugin, I don't see the problem: Ardour will automatically duplicate it if you use it in a stereo track or bus. And while I'm at it: Is it possible to add a Hi Pass filter (12(/18)/24 db) on them too? ;-) The plugin is frozen as far as I'm concerned, as there are some new ones in preparation - see for example http://www.kokkinizita.net/linuxaudio/eq1.png. This one has improved parametric sections, second order shelf filters (with variable slope) and an 18 dB/oct higpass. This will be released some day as a series of plugins (using their own standard) together with host/plugin libraries and a reference host. ATM it is available as a Jack app to selected users, write to me off-list if you want to try it. Ciao, -- Je veux que la mort me trouve plantant mes choux, mais nonchalant d’elle, et encore plus de mon jardin imparfait. (Michel de Montaigne) ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Routing signals in mixer (Ardour, Qtractor)
Louigi Verona wrote: On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 1:54 PM, Jeremy Jongepier jer...@autostatic.comwrote: On 07/07/2010 11:38 AM, Natanael Olaiz wrote: El 07/07/2010 11:25 AM, Louigi Verona escribió: So, is strange that Ardour only see 2 inputs... Can you send a link to the plugin that you are testing? I think at some point Paul said this is indeed the way things are. But you can see for yourself. http://www.sirlab.de/linux/download_vocoder.html You only have 2 audio inputs (formant and carrier)!! Yes, just checked it, 2 in and one out (vocoder-ladspa-0.3) Best, Jeremy ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev Yep, I can even show everyone a screenshot - in fact, I was wrong to say that there is one stereo in and one mono in - there are actually two stereo ins. I only see two inputs, one is for the formant and the other for the carrier. Jeremy ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Routing signals in mixer (Ardour, Qtractor)
On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 6:59 AM, Louigi Verona louigi.ver...@gmail.com wrote: Yep, I can even show everyone a screenshot - in fact, I was wrong to say that there is one stereo in and one mono in - there are actually two stereo ins. You're very confused :) The vocoder plugin is a *MONO* plugin, or more precisely, 1-in/1out with the twist of an extra input as the formant. But ... to a host, it looks indistinguishable from a 2in/1out plugin because LADSPA has no way to mark side-chain inputs. No LADSPA host is going to be any difference unless it uses per-plugin hacks. If you don't know that the 2nd input is really a side-chain this looks like an odd I/O configuration., but you can use this in Ardour by creating a 2-in/1out track or bus and using the vocoder plugin. You will have to make the connections to the track/bus inputs by hand, based on your knowledge of which is the format and which is the carrier. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Routing signals in mixer (Ardour, Qtractor)
Jeremy Jongepier wrote: On 07/07/2010 11:32 AM, Jeremy Jongepier wrote: On 07/07/2010 09:49 AM, Louigi Verona wrote: Hello! Both Ardour and Qtractor are capable sequencers. Ardour is getting midi soon, Qtractor is getting automation. All of this is good news. I was wondering if the devs are interested in implementing routing signals in a mixer as the next important priority. This would allow not only effects chains which is usually very useful, but also usage of vocoders. At the moment it is impossible to use a vocoder plugin inside Ardour or Qtractor. The beauty of vocoders is that they can be used not only on voice, but as electronic instruments as well. I am often using them to create beautiful textures, but in order for the result to be good, I need to automate parameters of the vocoder. LADSPA Vocoder, for instance, is capable of generating very beautiful sounds, but only if you can change the bands in real time, fade the in and out. Of course, sometimes it can be recorded live, but in many cases it needs to be automated and stored in a project. Tell me what you think. Hello Louigi, I think it can already be done: - In Qtractor create four tracks with corresponding buses: synth (stereo), carrier (mono), vocoder (3 channels) and vocoder-mix (stereo) - The vocoder track needs a corresponding bus with three channels, one for the carrier and one for the incoming signal - Have all tracks output their signal to their corresponding buses, except for vocoder-mix of course, have it output to the Master output bus - Load the vocoder LADSPA plugin into the vocoder track. I don't know which input is the carrier and which one the stereo input but I think you'll figure that out yourself - Make the connections in QjackCtl's or Qtractor's Connections window: connect the synth output bus ports to the vocoder input bus ports and connect the carrier output bus port to the third vocoder input bus port. Then connect two of the vocoder output bus ports (the ones that output a signal, one of the outputs will be silent I guess) to the vocoder-mix input bus ports. Not sure if it works, but I managed to set up a similar effect chain when it comes to using sidechain compression in Qtractor with the SC3 LADSPA compressor (http://linux.autostatic.com/images/2010-07/sidechain.ogg). Works like a charm so it should work with a vocoder plugin too. Best, Jeremy Instead of carrier I meant formant of course :$ Jeremy Ok, got it working in Qtractor: - In Qtractor I've created four tracks with corresponding buses: Formant Synth (1 channel), Carrier Voice (1 channel), Vocoder (2 channels) and Vocoder Mix (2 channels) - All tracks output their signal to their corresponding buses, except for Vocoder Mix which outputs to the Master output buses - Then I've loaded the vocoder LADSPA plugin into the Vocoder track. Input 1 of the Vocoder bus is the carrier and input 2 is the formant - After that I've made the following connections in Qtractor's Connections window: http://linux.autostatic.com/images/2010-07/vocoder-connections.png Best, Jeremy ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Routing signals in mixer (Ardour, Qtractor)
On Wed, 07 Jul 2010 14:55:02 +0200, Jeremy Jongepier Ok, got it working in Qtractor: - In Qtractor I've created four tracks with corresponding buses: Formant Synth (1 channel), Carrier Voice (1 channel), Vocoder (2 channels) and Vocoder Mix (2 channels) - All tracks output their signal to their corresponding buses, except for Vocoder Mix which outputs to the Master output buses - Then I've loaded the vocoder LADSPA plugin into the Vocoder track. Input 1 of the Vocoder bus is the carrier and input 2 is the formant - After that I've made the following connections in Qtractor's Connections window: http://linux.autostatic.com/images/2010-07/vocoder-connections.png awe! i was afraid to suggest the OP problem had no current solution with qtractor, but now i'm terrified :o) there's the liven proof that nothing beats user imagination! ps. Jeremy, you seem to grok qtractor innards in a way that's going to put a shame on me sooner or later, if not already. please, don't ever stop :) cheers -- rncbc aka Rui Nuno Capela rn...@rncbc.org ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Feature request for FIL-Plugins
onsdag 07 juli 2010 13.50.58 skrev f...@kokkinizita.net: On Wed, Jul 07, 2010 at 01:18:40PM +0200, Jostein Chr. Andersen wrote: ... So my humble (I hope) request is: Is it possible to make a stereo version of FIL-equalizer and can someone implement it? That would make the mixing situation very much better. If you mean the LADSPA plugin, I don't see the problem: Ardour will automatically duplicate it if you use it in a stereo track or bus. Shit, I didn't know that! :-) ATM it is available as a Jack app to selected users, write to me off-list if you want to try it. Yes please, I'm glad to try it. It looks like something useful and productive. Thank you very much for doing all this wonderful Linux Audio Stuff! Jostein ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Feature request for FIL-Plugins
onsdag 07 juli 2010 13.50.58 skrev f...@kokkinizita.net: On Wed, Jul 07, 2010 at 01:18:40PM +0200, Jostein Chr. Andersen wrote: ... So my humble (I hope) request is: Is it possible to make a stereo version of FIL-equalizer and can someone implement it? That would make the mixing situation very much better. If you mean the LADSPA plugin, I don't see the problem: Ardour will automatically duplicate it if you use it in a stereo track or bus. Shit, I didn't know that, now, I'm exited! :-) And while I'm at it: Is it possible to add a Hi Pass filter (12(/18)/24 db) on them too? ;-) The plugin is frozen as far as I'm concerned, as there are some new ones in preparation - see for example http://www.kokkinizita.net/linuxaudio/eq1.png. This one has improved parametric sections, second order shelf filters (with variable slope) and an 18 dB/oct higpass. It looks like something useful and productive. Thank you very much for doing all this wonderful Linux Audio Stuff! Jostein ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
[LAD] calf: where did the nice hi and lowpass plugins go?
hi calf folks, hi everyone! unless i'm getting confused, the calf plugin set used to contain a set of hi- and lowpass filters that seem to have vanished with my last git pull. which is a major pity, since a) the current git solves a number of crashes and b) i've been using those hi- and lowpass plugins (perhaps unwisely) in a number of rather complicated sessions that i need to be able to revisit... any chance of getting those back? best, jörn ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Feature request for FIL-Plugins
Excerpts from fons's message of 2010-07-07 13:50:58 +0200: On Wed, Jul 07, 2010 at 01:18:40PM +0200, Jostein Chr. Andersen wrote: I'm a very happy user of the decent FIL-equalizer and so far, it serves all my needs for mixing down mono channels in mixing situations. The problem is that a Stereo EQ is also needed from time to time, for example with drums; I'm thinking about overhead channels. I use to make on bus for the drums and an additional bus for the OH channels (so left and right OH channels can use common hipass, compressor and EQs, and deesser (and so on)), then every drum item is feed into the drum bus and OH's is feed it's stereo bus and from there into the drum bus; this is probably the most common way to do it. So my humble (I hope) request is: Is it possible to make a stereo version of FIL-equalizer and can someone implement it? That would make the mixing situation very much better. If you mean the LADSPA plugin, I don't see the problem: Ardour will automatically duplicate it if you use it in a stereo track or bus. And while I'm at it: Is it possible to add a Hi Pass filter (12(/18)/24 db) on them too? ;-) The plugin is frozen as far as I'm concerned, as there are some new ones in preparation - see for example http://www.kokkinizita.net/linuxaudio/eq1.png. This one has improved parametric sections, second order shelf filters (with variable slope) and an 18 dB/oct higpass. This will be released some day as a series of plugins (using their own standard) together with host/plugin libraries and a reference host. ATM it is available as a Jack app to selected users, write to me off-list if you want to try it. Ciao, Previously I was unsure whether it will be a set of lv2 extension or another plugin API, I guessed the former but apparently was wrong. Does it really need another plugin API in addition to the 5 free and native (read: non-VST) APIs I can think of off the top of my head? -- Regards, Philipp -- Wir stehen selbst enttäuscht und sehn betroffen / Den Vorhang zu und alle Fragen offen. Bertolt Brecht, Der gute Mensch von Sezuan ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Feature request for FIL-Plugins
Sorry folks, this posting was ment to be sendet offlist to Fons. :-( I do only have place for mixing in my mind just now, sorry. Jostein onsdag 07 juli 2010 15.36.03 skrev Jostein Chr. Andersen: onsdag 07 juli 2010 13.50.58 skrev f...@kokkinizita.net: On Wed, Jul 07, 2010 at 01:18:40PM +0200, Jostein Chr. Andersen wrote: ... So my humble (I hope) request is: Is it possible to make a stereo version of FIL-equalizer and can someone implement it? That would make the mixing situation very much better. If you mean the LADSPA plugin, I don't see the problem: Ardour will automatically duplicate it if you use it in a stereo track or bus. Shit, I didn't know that! :-) ATM it is available as a Jack app to selected users, write to me off-list if you want to try it. Yes please, I'm glad to try it. It looks like something useful and productive. Thank you very much for doing all this wonderful Linux Audio Stuff! Jostein ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Routing signals in mixer (Ardour, Qtractor)
Rui Nuno Capela wrote: On Wed, 07 Jul 2010 14:55:02 +0200, Jeremy Jongepier Ok, got it working in Qtractor: - In Qtractor I've created four tracks with corresponding buses: Formant Synth (1 channel), Carrier Voice (1 channel), Vocoder (2 channels) and Vocoder Mix (2 channels) - All tracks output their signal to their corresponding buses, except for Vocoder Mix which outputs to the Master output buses - Then I've loaded the vocoder LADSPA plugin into the Vocoder track. Input 1 of the Vocoder bus is the carrier and input 2 is the formant - After that I've made the following connections in Qtractor's Connections window: http://linux.autostatic.com/images/2010-07/vocoder-connections.png awe! i was afraid to suggest the OP problem had no current solution with qtractor, but now i'm terrified :o) there's the liven proof that nothing beats user imagination! ps. Jeremy, you seem to grok qtractor innards in a way that's going to put a shame on me sooner or later, if not already. please, don't ever stop :) cheers Hello Rui, Qtractor's routing functionality is just so straightforward so after reading some manuals and viewing some vlogs (all Windows or Mac related) I thought, this should be possible with Qtractor too. And it is. In a similar way it is possible to do sidechain compression too, like Daft Punk is using in their song One More Time (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lH-0s0pRleg) where the horns get ducked by the kick. When it comes to grasping Qtractor's possibilities, it's my main tool around which I've built my little home studio, and I'm a bit of a tenacious perfectionist who likes to investigate, research and get things to work. And if it wasn't for Qtractor I wouldn't be making music with GNU/Linux right now. Jeremy ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Feature request for FIL-Plugins
On Wed, Jul 07, 2010 at 03:47:20PM +0200, Philipp Überbacher wrote: Previously I was unsure whether it will be a set of lv2 extension or another plugin API, I guessed the former but apparently was wrong. Does it really need another plugin API in addition to the 5 free and native (read: non-VST) APIs I can think of off the top of my head? I now of LADSPA, DSSI and LV2. None of them comes close to what is required. Which are the others (apart from Csound opcodes etc.) ? It could be done as an LV2 extension (LV2, like the Borg, could assimilate anything), but nothing is gained by doing that - it just complicates things. Only the discovery mechanism would remain, and it is widely known that I don't much like anything that even looks like XML. There are number of fundamental differences between existing Linux plugin systems and the one I'm working on, so as far as I can see the answer to your question is positive. Ciao, -- Je veux que la mort me trouve plantant mes choux, mais nonchalant d’elle, et encore plus de mon jardin imparfait. (Michel de Montaigne) ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] calf: where did the nice hi and lowpass plugins go?
On 07/07/10 15:38, Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote: Hi! unless i'm getting confused, the calf plugin set used to contain a set of hi- and lowpass filters that seem to have vanished with my last git pull. which is a major pity, since a) the current git solves a number of crashes and b) i've been using those hi- and lowpass plugins (perhaps unwisely) in a number of rather complicated sessions that i need to be able to revisit... any chance of getting those back? http://repo.or.cz/w/calf.git/commit/e03505a778ac3b8edb7a389a11eae03cbacc79fe Good luck. ;) ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Feature request for FIL-Plugins
Excerpts from fons's message of 2010-07-07 16:46:26 +0200: On Wed, Jul 07, 2010 at 03:47:20PM +0200, Philipp Überbacher wrote: Previously I was unsure whether it will be a set of lv2 extension or another plugin API, I guessed the former but apparently was wrong. Does it really need another plugin API in addition to the 5 free and native (read: non-VST) APIs I can think of off the top of my head? I now of LADSPA, DSSI and LV2. None of them comes close to what is required. Which are the others (apart from Csound opcodes etc.) ? There's also MESS (some muse related thing, also only read recently about it) and RHSP (http://sites.google.com/site/rockhardbuns/rhsp). It could be done as an LV2 extension (LV2, like the Borg, could assimilate anything), but nothing is gained by doing that - it just complicates things. Only the discovery mechanism would remain, and it is widely known that I don't much like anything that even looks like XML. There are number of fundamental differences between existing Linux plugin systems and the one I'm working on, so as far as I can see the answer to your question is positive. Ciao, I'm just afraid that it might end up as a pretty much app specific thing, similar to MESS and RHSP. What's the point of a plugin API 'standard' when there's a single host supporting the thing? It doesn't help plugin developers either if they have to chose between 5-7 plugin APIs, knowing that, whatever they chose, only a, often tiny, subset of programs will be able to load the plugin. I'm not sure the lv2 way would be better either, hosts would need to adapt your extensions and that may or may not take a long time. I guess there's no easy answer until there's a plugin standard everyone is happy with. -- Regards, Philipp -- Wir stehen selbst enttäuscht und sehn betroffen / Den Vorhang zu und alle Fragen offen. Bertolt Brecht, Der gute Mensch von Sezuan ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [LAA] gst123-0.1.2
Hi! On Tue, Jul 06, 2010 at 02:43:11PM -0700, Niels Mayer wrote: On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 9:11 AM, Stefan Westerfeld ste...@space.twc.de wrote: gst123-0.1.2 has been released. Website: http://space.twc.de/~stefan/gst123.php Download: http://space.twc.de/~stefan/gst123/gst123-0.1.2.tar.bz2 Stefan -- very nice and useful program. Thanks for making this available! FYI -- To compile on Fedora, I had to install the following to get 'configure' to stop complaining: 1) yum install 'gstreamer-devel' (obviously) 2) yum install gstreamer-plugins-base-devel (less obvious as config complains: No package 'gstreamer-interfaces-0.10' found // No package 'gstreamer-video-0.10' found ) 3) yum install ncurses-devel gst123 should normally point you to Debian packages if it doesn't find something, although currently it only does this for ncurses. I am not yet sure how to make configure.ac print out the right thing to install depending on the distribution. But I'd accept patches that solve this. Question: is there a way to disable checking for pulseaudio for each new file when specifying multiple media files. e.g.: gst123 *.ogg ? If at all, this could be fixed in GStreamer pulseaudio support. Except for the .gst123rc entry we already discussed. (2) For HD Video recorded off digital broadcasts, but not for regular def broadcast video, there's a problem when issuing the '-' (forward arrow) or '-' (backward arrow) commands to skip forwards or back: As you go forward, there's an increasingly longer delay before the audio syncs up and starts playing. Hit '-' a few times and the audio never seems to sync up, and sometimes the video stays paused on the same frame, even though the time display in the terminal continues updating. This also sounds to me like a GStreamer bug - probably you should repost the question on a GStreamer mailing list. gst123 is just a very thin wrapper that uses GStreamer for actual seeking and decoding, so if there is something wrong with some files, the most likely thing is that the corresponding GStreamer plugins need to be fixed. (3) Note that if the above file is played out of a list 'gst123 *.mpg' then at least it gets audio playback. The same file, started standalone, shows video, but gives plays no audio: . gnulem-346-~ gst123 /home/npm/Videos/1551_20100407195900.mpg Playing file:///home/npm/Videos/1551_20100407195900.mpg ** (gst123:12323): CRITICAL **: gst_mpeg_descriptor_find: assertion `desc != NULL' failed Looks like a GStreamer issue, too. PS: Feature request: decode caption information from videos, and display in video. And/or output a timed-text, SMIL or other file containing the caption information and time-of-presentation information. This can be very useful in searching content of video files. I would accept patches for this one. Currently, I don't know what needs to be done to display anything on top of the video display. Could be that it can be done at Gtk level (we already have a Gtk window where we display things in), could also be that overlaying text or other information needs to be done with GStreamer somehow. Personally, I'd like to have a visual indication of the stream position during seek (and that is on the TODO), and once gst123 has the capability to draw on top of the video display, other stuff could be added. Cu... Stefan -- Stefan Westerfeld, Hamburg/Germany, http://space.twc.de/~stefan ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Routing signals in mixer (Ardour, Qtractor)
Is there a similar solution with Qtractor possible for audio plugins that output midi (e.g. audio-midi pitch detection as provided by 'autotalent'), or midi-controlled audio-processing plugins (again, such as autotalent). You mentioned this configuration wasn't possible before ( http://lalists.stanford.edu/lad/2010/05/0369.html http://lalists.stanford.edu/lad/2010/05/0372.html ) -- is that still the case? It seems like the case solved by Jeremy was an all audio plugin setup with some extra side-chaining (e.g. http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/may09/articles/cubasetech_0509.htm#top ). What if you want to use MIDI control as your side chain ( http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/may01/articles/advancedgating.pt2.asp ) ? Instead of ducking one instrument based on the sound of the drum hits, one simply had a midi note-on/note-off during the hit. Or even better, a Note-on and an ADSR to control the length and amplitude of the duck A good example of this would be using a fast on/off repeating note in midi to gate an existing signal -- to give that old school rave sound to synths ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLjJlUH6eIAannotation_id=annotation_180979feature=iv ) or stuttering vocals ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnnDMvdVDz4 ). Niels http://nielsmayer.com ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Routing signals in mixer (Ardour, Qtractor)
On Wed, 2010-07-07 at 10:21 -0700, Niels Mayer wrote: Is there a similar solution with Qtractor possible for audio plugins that output midi (e.g. audio-midi pitch detection as provided by 'autotalent'), or midi-controlled audio-processing plugins (again, such as autotalent). You mentioned this configuration wasn't possible before ( http://lalists.stanford.edu/lad/2010/05/0369.html http://lalists.stanford.edu/lad/2010/05/0372.html ) -- is that still the case? It seems like the case solved by Jeremy was an all audio plugin setup with some extra side-chaining (e.g. http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/may09/articles/cubasetech_0509.htm#top ). What if you want to use MIDI control as your side chain ( http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/may01/articles/advancedgating.pt2.asp ) ? Instead of ducking one instrument based on the sound of the drum hits, one simply had a midi note-on/note-off during the hit. Or even better, a Note-on and an ADSR to control the length and amplitude of the duck A good example of this would be using a fast on/off repeating note in midi to gate an existing signal -- to give that old school rave sound to synths ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLjJlUH6eIAannotation_id=annotation_180979feature=iv ) or stuttering vocals ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnnDMvdVDz4 ). Niels http://nielsmayer.com That for audio this could be solved this way is known, even if Rui doesn't know it himself, but this isn't a good solution, if somebody wish to use several side chain effects is become to confusing. AFAIK the MIDI issue isn't solved. Setting up buses for MIDI isn't possible the way it is for audio, but I didn't use Qtractor since around two month anymore. I guess I'll make music using latest svn Version within the next days. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Routing signals in mixer (Ardour, Qtractor)
On Wed, 2010-07-07 at 19:40 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: On Wed, 2010-07-07 at 10:21 -0700, Niels Mayer wrote: Is there a similar solution with Qtractor possible for audio plugins that output midi (e.g. audio-midi pitch detection as provided by 'autotalent'), or midi-controlled audio-processing plugins (again, such as autotalent). You mentioned this configuration wasn't possible before ( http://lalists.stanford.edu/lad/2010/05/0369.html http://lalists.stanford.edu/lad/2010/05/0372.html ) -- is that still the case? It seems like the case solved by Jeremy was an all audio plugin setup with some extra side-chaining (e.g. http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/may09/articles/cubasetech_0509.htm#top ). What if you want to use MIDI control as your side chain ( http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/may01/articles/advancedgating.pt2.asp ) ? Instead of ducking one instrument based on the sound of the drum hits, one simply had a midi note-on/note-off during the hit. Or even better, a Note-on and an ADSR to control the length and amplitude of the duck A good example of this would be using a fast on/off repeating note in midi to gate an existing signal -- to give that old school rave sound to synths ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLjJlUH6eIAannotation_id=annotation_180979feature=iv ) or stuttering vocals ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnnDMvdVDz4 ). Niels http://nielsmayer.com That for audio this could be solved this way is known, even if Rui doesn't know it himself, but this isn't a good solution, if somebody wish to use several side chain effects is become to confusing. AFAIK the MIDI issue isn't solved. Setting up buses for MIDI isn't possible the way it is for audio, but I didn't use Qtractor since around two month anymore. I guess I'll make music using latest svn Version within the next days. There's a solution, you can add an effect from outside Qtractor as an insert to a channel and send MIDI to it, the usual way Qtractor sends MIDI ;). ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Feature request for FIL-Plugins
On Wed, Jul 07, 2010 at 05:12:56PM +0200, Philipp Überbacher wrote: I'm just afraid that it might end up as a pretty much app specific thing, similar to MESS and RHSP. That would be perfectly OK for me. I'm not after popularity, and I'm writing these things in the first place for myself. What's the point of a plugin API 'standard' when there's a single host supporting the thing? Apart from the host(s) I'll provide (one of which is an app on its own, the other a pure plugin host) that would probably be the case anyway. Actually, for a host author implementing this standard directly would be easier than trying to squeeze it into an existing LV2 framework - some things are quite different. It doesn't help plugin developers either if they have to chose between 5-7 plugin APIs, knowing that, whatever they chose, only a, often tiny, subset of programs will be able to load the plugin. That again is not something that keeps me awake at night. In fact it would provide a form of natural selection. The main point of this series of plugins will be *quality*. I'm not really waiting to see the N-th 'I-dont-understand-it- but-copied-it-from-some-textbook' algorithm being added to it. There are already enough of those, and that in itself is a good reason for not wanting to be associated with existing standards. Ciao, -- Je veux que la mort me trouve plantant mes choux, mais nonchalant d’elle, et encore plus de mon jardin imparfait. (Michel de Montaigne) ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Routing signals in mixer (Ardour, Qtractor)
On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 1:21 PM, Niels Mayer nielsma...@gmail.com wrote: What if you want to use MIDI control as your side chain ( just for the record, ardour3 in SVN can now do this. i'm not suggesting that anyone actually try it out yet, though, and anyway, i know of no plugins that can do this at present. the only limitation on mixed midi/audio signal flow in ardour 3.0 will be that there is only 1 datatype *leaving* a track. mixed inputs and mixed data within a track (or bus)'s processing flow are fine. --p ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Feature request for FIL-Plugins
On Wed, 2010-07-07 at 19:51 +0200, f...@kokkinizita.net wrote: On Wed, Jul 07, 2010 at 05:12:56PM +0200, Philipp Überbacher wrote: It doesn't help plugin developers either if they have to chose between 5-7 plugin APIs, knowing that, whatever they chose, only a, often tiny, subset of programs will be able to load the plugin. That again is not something that keeps me awake at night. In fact it would provide a form of natural selection. Natural selection. I bet as soon as Qtractor will have some additional features or as soon as Ardour3 is released, the Linux people who now wish to have 1000 apps, will switch to the one in all solution too. The people who still wish to use 1000 apps could run 10 hosts, so this shouldn't be an issue. Natural selection will be done by the first all in one solutions for Linux, another for the future might be Rosegarden. I guess a developer just needs to take a look at what is supported by (in lexically order) Ardour, Qtractor and Rosegarden as host. - Ralf ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Routing signals in mixer (Ardour, Qtractor)
On 07/07/2010 06:21 PM, Niels Mayer wrote: Is there a similar solution with Qtractor possible for audio plugins that output midi (e.g. audio-midi pitch detection as provided by 'autotalent'), or midi-controlled audio-processing plugins (again, such as autotalent). You mentioned this configuration wasn't possible before ( http://lalists.stanford.edu/lad/2010/05/0369.html http://lalists.stanford.edu/lad/2010/05/0372.html ) -- is that still the case? It seems like the case solved by Jeremy was an all audio plugin setup with some extra side-chaining (e.g. http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/may09/articles/cubasetech_0509.htm#top ). exactly. qtractor has no means to host midi_fx plugins. even though a vst and theoretically lv2 plugins may provide midi out ports, qtractor won't recognize it and sure all midi output data will be thrown to /dev/null ;) What if you want to use MIDI control as your side chain ( http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/may01/articles/advancedgating.pt2.asp ) ? Instead of ducking one instrument based on the sound of the drum hits, one simply had a midi note-on/note-off during the hit. Or even better, a Note-on and an ADSR to control the length and amplitude of the duck A good example of this would be using a fast on/off repeating note in midi to gate an existing signal -- to give that old school rave sound to synths ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLjJlUH6eIAannotation_id=annotation_180979feature=iv ) or stuttering vocals ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnnDMvdVDz4 ). there was once this idiocy of mine which hinted you could drive a midi audio_fx plugin by inserting it into a midi track (eg. a midi controlled vocoder plugin) and preceding it by an audio insert. that way you could have the plugin control data in the midi track (ie. poor man's automation:). what could never work was that the audio input signal, which you feed to the aforementioned audio insert returns, couldn't ever be taken from one of qtractor's audio output buses. because it just doesn't work, you just get silence instead. but it could work iif the audio signal is piped in from anything alse but qtractor... cheers -- rncbc aka Rui Nuno Capela rn...@rncbc.org ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Routing signals in mixer (Ardour, Qtractor)
On Wed, 2010-07-07 at 14:23 -0400, Paul Davis wrote: On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 1:21 PM, Niels Mayer nielsma...@gmail.com wrote: What if you want to use MIDI control as your side chain ( just for the record, ardour3 in SVN can now do this. i'm not suggesting that anyone actually try it out yet, though, and anyway, i know of no plugins that can do this at present. At least some VSTs could do, but I never used those myself. Perhaps auto-tune? Some vocoders? And for gates this should be a feature too, but I guess on Mac and Win they go another way, those gates take a look to the waveforms with an offset, but I might be wrong. Anyway, I'm sure there are some VSTs. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Routing signals in mixer (Ardour, Qtractor)
On Wed, 2010-07-07 at 20:39 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: On Wed, 2010-07-07 at 14:23 -0400, Paul Davis wrote: On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 1:21 PM, Niels Mayer nielsma...@gmail.com wrote: What if you want to use MIDI control as your side chain ( just for the record, ardour3 in SVN can now do this. i'm not suggesting that anyone actually try it out yet, though, and anyway, i know of no plugins that can do this at present. At least some VSTs could do, but I never used those myself. Perhaps auto-tune? Some vocoders? And for gates this should be a feature too, but I guess on Mac and Win they go another way, those gates take a look to the waveforms with an offset, but I might be wrong. Anyway, I'm sure there are some VSTs. Btw. this could be done with Linux too, if there should be gates with side chain. Just copy an audio track, give this audio track an offset and only use it for the side chain, to gate the original track. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Routing signals in mixer (Ardour, Qtractor)
On Wed, 2010-07-07 at 10:21 -0700, Niels Mayer wrote: A good example of this would be using a fast on/off repeating note in midi to gate an existing signal -- to give that old school rave sound to synths Btw. while mixing consoles do have 'on/off' switches, the Yamaha MT44D had a 'touch' mute switch. I guess DJs do use fader with elastic bands to get this effect. Some guitarists use the so called kill switch for doing this, http://www.google.de/images?hl=deq=kill+switch +guitarum=1ie=UTF-8source=univei=a840TMyKE8uKOLnDwaYEsa=Xoi=image_result_groupct=titleresnum=4ved=0CDcQsAQwAw :) I guess manually doing this kind of gating pulse is more musically :) Just 2 cents, Ralf ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [LAA] gst123-0.1.2
Thanks for your help and response... FYI, here's a few bug reports/feature-missing things: (1) I finally figured out those flashing squares that appear every time gst123 changes songs. It's album-art images, displayed in an X window! These need to stay up longer, as only by forcing the audio device to be busy and playing back a giant directory of files, I was able to actually see that these are windows containing images, and not some weird new display-glitching bug caused by KDE's Smooth Tasks widget. To be useful, the display of the image needs to be held for a certain amount of time after you're sure the window-system has actually rendered the image. Perhaps a single integer option --albumart-time -- when set to 0 image display is suppressed, otherwise, an integer like 1000 which would hold the album-art image for 1 second. (And yes, I realize that a fix for this issue is easily had in my script play-cd (shorthand for play sound only @ 44.1, vs play-tv w/ X/Video @ 48k): | #!/bin/sh | args=`/bin/ls -d $*` | export DISPLAY='' | exec gst123 -a alsa=mythcd $args ) (2) Sometimes video windows come up at the wrong size (tiny). You can resize them with the window manager and resize it back and get the correct aspect. Or you can quit and run it again and find it sized correctly. (3) Is there a way to create a specific, stable, window-name for the video window created, perhaps settable as commandline parameter. That way for captions, you don't really need to worry about overwriting the video with transparent letters like you would on an actual TV caption. Instead, wrap your program in an external program such as Python, or WINTERP (*) that captures the video window (much like a window manager would, or how mplayer windows are displayed insider wrappers like smplayer kmplayer etc) and parses the time-data-stream information continuously output by gst123. Below the video window you stick a text widget and display caption text independently of the video. There's really no need to overlay and worry about transparency mapping through letters and slowing down the rendering, and all that potential, hardware-dependent fail. Stick the text in a GUI toolkit where all the region and language issues can be handled appropriately... Such tools are happy to update a few times a second to display new captions while X is off rendering the video (or stepping out of the way) in the most efficient, platform-independent manner available. Niels http://nielsmayer.com PS: (*) I just got my old dead opensource project http://nielsmayer.com/winterp/ ( ftp://ftp.x.org/contrib/devel_tools/winterp.lsm ) 99%fully running/ported to the latest Linux/Gcc/X courtesy of PlanetCCRMA having the following packages openmotif-2.3.2-5.1.svn.fc12.ccrma.x86_64 openmotif-devel-2.3.2-5.1.svn.fc12.ccrma.x86_64 ... one of the nice things it provides (and I'm happy i'll no longer need to supply my own version-of) is expect-5.43.0-19.fc12.x86_64 -- a portable way to talk to existing tty-based programs as if they were running it a terminal. Except they're not actually running in a terminal, they're being controlled by a GUI. Probably nothing more than anybody does with Python, or Java, or Ruby, or Perl, or ... these days ... however, for line-based, or s-expression-based results (e.g. multiple lisp or scheme-based systems talking to each other) the asynchronous subprocess facility WINTERP provides is potentially more elegant for the application writer comfortable with putting parentheses before the functor. Anyways, w/o taking up much of my time, I want to put it up on sourceforge, salvage the interesting parts, and see what happens -- at this point as yet another background task/distraction. However running code speaks, and this is running code. I'm just happy to have some simple winterp-based utilities back and running again: win-grep ( http://nielsmayer.com/winterp/scrnsnaps/grep-br.gif ) and win-dircmp ( http://nielsmayer.com/winterp/scrnsnaps/dircmp.gif ). And for doing music/midi stuff, the XmGraph widget can't be beat: it's quite awesome in interactive mode, as well as its intelligent graph layout: http://nielsmayer.com/winterp/scrnsnaps/graphcalc.gif http://nielsmayer.com/winterp/scrnsnaps/grph-whier.gif ( http://nielsmayer.com/winterp/examples/grph-whier.lsp ) http://nielsmayer.com/wwweasel/node24.htm ). ANd lets not forget WINTERP's path-based-animation facilities to make arbitrary interactive controllers and displays (beyond what a prebuilt widget' might provide) that move smoothly with built-in double-buffering: http://nielsmayer.com/winterp/scrnsnaps/xtango/hanoi.gif http://nielsmayer.com/winterp/scrnsnaps/xtango/test-dial.gif http://nielsmayer.com/winterp/scrnsnaps/xtango/test-gauge.gif http://nielsmayer.com/winterp/scrnsnaps/xtango/test-knob.gif ... FYI, this is all it takes to talk to an asynchronous subprocess -- such as runningcontrolling gst123 ... http://nielsmayer.com/winterp/examples/subcalc.lsp (simple UI to run bc as an
Re: [LAD] Feature request for FIL-Plugins
On Wed, Jul 07, 2010 at 08:23:50PM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: I guess a developer just needs to take a look at what is supported by (in lexically order) Ardour, Qtractor and Rosegarden as host. Depends on the developer's own interests and target audience. For production tools I keep an eye on Ardour, and that's it more or less. If people think that Autotalent is really great then they should just use it. Even if its resampling code distorts as hell. If they believe that the Calf Compressor really has an RMS mode as it claims it has, let them be happy believing that. I don't care. Ciao, -- Je veux que la mort me trouve plantant mes choux, mais nonchalant d’elle, et encore plus de mon jardin imparfait. (Michel de Montaigne) ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Feature request for FIL-Plugins
Excerpts from fons's message of 2010-07-07 19:51:29 +0200: On Wed, Jul 07, 2010 at 05:12:56PM +0200, Philipp Überbacher wrote: I'm just afraid that it might end up as a pretty much app specific thing, similar to MESS and RHSP. That would be perfectly OK for me. I'm not after popularity, and I'm writing these things in the first place for myself. What's the point of a plugin API 'standard' when there's a single host supporting the thing? Apart from the host(s) I'll provide (one of which is an app on its own, the other a pure plugin host) that would probably be the case anyway. Actually, for a host author implementing this standard directly would be easier than trying to squeeze it into an existing LV2 framework - some things are quite different. It doesn't help plugin developers either if they have to chose between 5-7 plugin APIs, knowing that, whatever they chose, only a, often tiny, subset of programs will be able to load the plugin. That again is not something that keeps me awake at night. In fact it would provide a form of natural selection. The main point of this series of plugins will be *quality*. I'm not really waiting to see the N-th 'I-dont-understand-it- but-copied-it-from-some-textbook' algorithm being added to it. There are already enough of those, and that in itself is a good reason for not wanting to be associated with existing standards. Ciao, But I'm sure that you see the benefit of a single plugin standard as VST pretty much is on windows. Anyway, there's no easy way to solve the multiple-standards thing in Linux land apparently. One thing that I'm wondering about though, what about NASPRO? Do you think it might be able to wrap around your plugins and bridge to lv2? http://naspro.atheme.org/about -- Regards, Philipp -- Wir stehen selbst enttäuscht und sehn betroffen / Den Vorhang zu und alle Fragen offen. Bertolt Brecht, Der gute Mensch von Sezuan ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Feature request for FIL-Plugins
On Wed, 2010-07-07 at 22:53 +0200, f...@kokkinizita.net wrote: On Wed, Jul 07, 2010 at 08:23:50PM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: I guess a developer just needs to take a look at what is supported by (in lexically order) Ardour, Qtractor and Rosegarden as host. Depends on the developer's own interests and target audience. For production tools I keep an eye on Ardour, and that's it more or less. If people think that Autotalent is really great then they should just use it. Even if its resampling code distorts as hell. If they believe that the Calf Compressor really has an RMS mode as it claims it has, let them be happy believing that. I don't care. Ciao, That explains why you're happy with PCs to produce music, you don't use MIDI ;). Anyway, some developer might care about at least the most common hosts. Until now those are Ardour + Rosegarden and Qtractor gets more and more fans too. Now, autotalent might become better and might be important for the more up to date pop music orientated crowed while people might use Calf compressor without RMS mode. I don't need autotalent. I do need a compressor, but if possible I avoid using a compressor and try to do a good mix by using EQs instead of a compressor. Anyway, we do have different needs and I would welcome if you coders take care of Ardour, Rosegarden and Qtractor. IMO anything else is less important. Note, it's not unimportant! 0,02 € ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Feature request for FIL-Plugins
On Wed, Jul 07, 2010 at 10:56:24PM +0200, Philipp Überbacher wrote: But I'm sure that you see the benefit of a single plugin standard as VST pretty much is on windows. Anyway, there's no easy way to solve the multiple-standards thing in Linux land apparently. A single standard would be a good thing. But in the field of audio plugin standards all Linux efforts have had the same approach: to make things as simple as possible in order to avoid scaring away even the most unprepared would-be authors. With the result of ignoring any form of real analysis, or pushing it into the future. This is *not* the case for most of Linux. For the system level the UNIX heritage, POSIX, existing networking standards, etc. have dominated its design. None of these were defined in the way Linux audio standards typically are. The only exception is Jack which has hit its target right in the center, even if IMHO it will sooner or later benefit from a rather invasive and incompatible cleanup to remove the scars and deformations it incurred while climbing the learning curve. One thing that I'm wondering about though, what about NASPRO? Do you think it might be able to wrap around your plugins and bridge to lv2? http://naspro.atheme.org/about If there's one thing I do detest down to the center of my bones it is such wrapping of layer upon layer to transform A into B. And if NASPRO would be able to 'bridge' my system, it would still require extensions to LV2 which is its base, the same that would be required without NASPRO. Nothing at all is gained by doing this. Ciao, -- Je veux que la mort me trouve plantant mes choux, mais nonchalant d’elle, et encore plus de mon jardin imparfait. (Michel de Montaigne) ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Feature request for FIL-Plugins
On 7 July 2010 22:08, Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote: Anyway, we do have different needs and I would welcome if you coders take care of Ardour, Rosegarden and Qtractor. IMO anything else is less important. Note, it's not unimportant! 0,02 € It'll take more than 0,02 € for developers to do as you say ;-) ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
