Re: [LAD] Experience driven design and Linux Audio

2014-10-02 Thread Ralf Mardorf 
On Thu, 2014-10-02 at 14:22 -0700, Len Ovens wrote:
> The dx21 only has 8 because it only has 4 operators. This is math
> related rather than usablity related.

Yesno, take a look at the 32 algorithms of the DX7, some perhaps sane
combinations are missing, not to mention that a second feedback could be
useful. Instead of giving the operator an envelope, giving the feedback
an envelop could be useful, at least when easy editing based on a preset
is wanted. For the DX7 there were several software updates available,
some from Yamaha, others from third party, but AFAIK no update advanced
the sound editing options, just the function options got bug fixes
and/or were advanced. Some limitations likely were done to make the DX
series not too complicated. I remember that when I first used a very
simple Moog, I had to learn what option does cause what sound. Starting
with a very complex modular synth would have been much to complicated to
start understanding those analog synth. Fazit: The right tool for the
right target group and use case. There is no right or wrong approach, no
final solution to get the best universal result. But I suspect that less
old school musicians like to use LMMS on Unity. Rosegarden on Xfce or
similar likely is closer to "our" needs, IOW sane ideas for different
target groups are jumping at us, there's not really the need to think
about ways how to improve approaches/results.

The MOD Duo seems to be a good idea, but the slogan likely will make
musician scratching their heads.
"It's a truly multipurpose effects pedal. It puts hundreds of music
pedals into just one powerful little box with unlimited connections."
In practise nobody ever used effect pedals in this way, while many
musicians already in the past had the possibilities to get such setups.
Musicians usually prefer a hand full of pedals and they much more care
about some models from some vendors or modern multi-effects that provide
something similar to this hand full of effects. Quality over quantity.
Musicians usually prefer a few effects from some vendors, just because
they provide what they need, it has nothing to do with knowledge or
costs.

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Re: [LAD] Experience driven design and Linux Audio

2014-10-02 Thread Harry van Haaren 
Fons wrote:
> The many times I've had to set a delay time the most convenient unit could 
> have been samples, millisecs or meters (at the speed of sound), depending on 
> the context
Sure, there are uses (particularly your fields of WFS, Ambisonics, and
related) where such uses are prevailent. Aka, "context". Musicians are
very rarely in a context when ms, meters or samples is of any
relevance to what they are trying to achieve.

I'm not trying to belittle either use case here: but highlighting that
there are different use cases, and that using tools designed with
units like "speed-of-sound-in-air" and "meters-of-delay" are not
usable for musicians. Similarly, I think you'll agree that trying do
correctly compensate for the non-ideal location of a specific speaker
using BPM and 1/4 notes delay time isn't a workflow you'd care for.

Patrick Shirley wrote:
> A way to enhance usability across the board might be to have an "app of the 
> week" where everyone in the Linux Audio community is encouraged to run it and 
> provide any feedback
I think this is a brilliant idea, and should be done: @Patrick, if you
wish to take the initiative to make this happen, I leave it to you. If
you're not interested in doing it yourself, I would like to pick up
such an incentive.

I'd could only start in a few weeks, and would take a slightly more
relaxed approach "app of the month" perhaps, and use the projects
bug-tracker for feedback: sending lots of feedback-traffic trough LAU
wouldn't seem appropriate to me.

Paul Davis wrote:
> Link to video
Interesting to see that larger companies and musicians also "battle"
the same issue, that there isn't any clear consensus on "obviously" it
should be done this way. Thanks for linking, I hope to watch the whole
clip another time.

Will Godfrey wrote:
> I think this relates back to the topic as in who's experience should lead the 
> design?
Very good point: and something I'd like to address: If I (as OpenAV)
recieved more feedback, I'd have a better idea of what people wanted.
Voicing concerns is hugely important here: hit me with emails /
github-issues if there are specific things you'd like to see change!


General commentary:
I guess that makes it clearer to me, "design with experience in mind,
not features".

This is something I think I (as OpenAV) may not have been doing enough
while developing Luppp, and hence am currently re-organizing the
priorities of a live-performance / looping workflow.

Cheers, -Harry
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Re: [LAD] Experience driven design and Linux Audio

2014-10-02 Thread Len Ovens 

On Thu, 2 Oct 2014, gordon...@gjcp.net wrote:


I found Unity to be far, far quicker and easier to get around than anything 
that has gone before.  It took a bit of adjustment after using Gnome 2, but I 
can't see me ever going back.


Good, I have tried it a number of times (every release I install and try 
it) and for me it always ends up being more keystrokes to do anything more 
than use the browser. I know someone who uses the new gnome shell as well 
for music and loves it.


However, I have heard more complaints about both of them than praise. Both 
require an up to date reasonably powerful machine to run. (My P4 box will 
not even start gnome screen and unity barely moves, my 3 year old netbook 
doesn't like either of them either) As such, even something that runs 
these ok may not be able to do the same lowlatency audio that other DEs 
can do on the same machine. In trying to help people do so I have seen 
more people switch than not. Now obviously I won't have tried to help 
those for whom unity has just worked so my POV is bound to be one sided.



As someone who tries to get the most out of anything I use, I find most
commercial software extremely frustrating in the way it strait-jackets users. I
think this also blocks curiosity and maybe stops more youngsters joining the
creative communities.


But that starts to sound like the user arguments that put me off 
developing Linux audio software in the first place.  There seems to be a 
mindset of "software shouldn't waste cycles looking nice and being easy 
to use" which suggests that things ought to look shite and be difficult 
to use with every conceivable option exposed to the user, because it 
gives them "more flexibility".


There does need to be a balance. However, part of the problem is user 
mindset, and here I am talking linux hobby mindset. Many people who use 
linux expect to get away with a lesser machine. The same person will spend 
twice what their computer is worth for an audio IF. Really, if someone is 
serious about music, they need to have reasonable gear. But they shouldn't 
have to have a server class box just so the display can look pretty 
either. If we were truely worried about cpu cycles we would all be using 
NAMA as our DAW with no X running. One of the things I heard from one of 
the videos mentioned was that the UI can influence the music that comes 
out of it. Limitations in the UI can shape the way the music is made. So 
here is another place there needs to be balance.


I don't know how this relates, but It may be interesting to note that I 
have tried LMMS and Bitwig both of which are supposed to be very easy to 
use, but I found them hard to get noise out of at all. Yet I was able to 
use Ardour and have it act as expected from my first use. So obviously my 
head does not work the same as the average musician... and as such maybe I 
should stay as far away from developing anything as I can.


I learned the same lesson myself after coming at it the hard way when I 
wrote an eight-operator FM softsynth where any operator could be routed 
to any other operator (even itself) in a giant matrix of 64 controls.


I think even the 32 setups on the DX7 were more than needed, yet there are 
people who have played with them for years who comment they are still 
learning new things on them. I do not know if two more operators who have 
helped, but having 6 still seems to be better than 4... though 4 with more 
than just sine wave in may be a different story.


Yes, it was extremely powerful and versatile, but actually it turned out 
that this didn't make it useful.  It needed to be *less* powerful and 
versatile to filter out all the useless combinations.  Ever wonder why 
your DX21 has only got eight "algorithms" by which the operators may be 
combined?  *That's* why.


The dx21 only has 8 because it only has 4 operators. This is math related 
rather than usablity related. I suspect it had something to do with 
production cost as well. I have a 4 operator synth (even cheaper version 
than the 21) and I do not like the sound as much as the DX7 (I have one of 
those too). However the usability angle really shows well here. The DX7 
was not at all easy to program and it showed, it was easy to recognize the 
DX7 in popular music becasue everyone just used the factory defaults... 
good thing they were reasonable defaults for the DX7 would have been dead 
as soon as it came out. Having more operator controls may have helped, but 
the cost would have been a lot more too (the DX1 for example).


The manufacturers have learned from this all and most new synths just have 
presets that eveyone uses. No one creates new sounds on them but rather 
buys them for the sounds that they come with. In the end it has led to 
less experimental music, but there are a lot of other factors that pointed 
that way anyway. The big labels are not interested in music at all, just 
profit. They hire the same producers who use the same sounds that have 
wo

Re: [LAD] LV2 Pitch bend control port (and function)

2014-10-02 Thread Harry van Haaren 
On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 7:02 PM, Phil CM  wrote:
> Funny, I was just reading your blog post about it :)
Its pretty outdated by now, lv2plug.in/book is the new resource IMO.
But I'm leaving it there for the sake of it :)


> But I cannot get it to build because of a gtkmm error:
>  #include 
Sounds like a linking issue: i think special GTK2 flags need passing
now? GTK3 probably doesn't have a drawingarea or something. Dunno, I
don't use it anymore.

> Although I do have both
> libgtkmm-2.4-dev: /usr/include/gtkmm-2.4/gtkmm.h
> libgtkmm-3.0-dev: /usr/include/gtkmm-3.0/gtkmm.h
Hmmm dunno again. Sorry.

> installed... I too find NTK really nice and lightweight, BTW. I know it
> because it's used by Fabla, Sorcer, NSM etc.
Cool!

> A simple sine-generating synth
> plugin with a NTK GUI would be a cool place to start, I must say.
Good idea, I'm working on it. There's a single compile error right
now, that has something to do with includes and LV2UI_Show_Interface
and LV2UI_Idle_Interface (details, nevermind :)

I'll post in this thread once its fixed, and then that's that :)

Cheers, -Harry

-- 

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Re: [LAD] LV2 Pitch bend control port (and function)

2014-10-02 Thread Phil CM 


On 02/10/2014 16:42, Harry van Haaren wrote:

Hi,

When replying, please be careful to reply to the list, as well as the
person: otherwise 1/2 a conversation gets lost ;) I've included
linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org  again.

On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 4:13 PM, Phil CM  wrote:

On 02/10/2014 14:13, Harry van Haaren wrote:

On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 1:14 PM, Phil CM  wrote:

I need a synth with a pitch control. A synth that can be controlled to
produce all tones between one note and another, say from a2 to c3 in an
anti-aliased way, like what you would get in pd by altering the pitch of
a
sine wave.

Hi Phil,

To start, welcome to LV2 programming: audio plugins are fun and complex
area!

Thanks :)


If you haven't already, I suggest you checkout the "plugins" directory
in the lv2 repository. It provides the best example code you'll find,
and accompanying http://lv2plug.in/book/  provides detailed
explainations and best-practices.

This is my bedside reading for the next days to come ; Too bad the examples
do not include a simple synth :(

That's what I thought too, so I wrote a sin-generator a few years ago:
it apparently hasn't been included in the lv2 source yet. I'll CC
David Robillard, and see if that's an option :)

https://github.com/harryhaaren/lv2/tree/master/plugins/eg-sinsynth.lv2

I remember now that it doesn't accept MIDI input yet: which means it
doesn't handle notes, or pitch bend. These can be added quite
trivially, and is something that I'd be willing to collaborate on?
You'd learn how to "manually" use MIDI, and we'd have a better
resource.

Then how do you make it sound? I'm curious.
Your proposition is precious, Harry. Thank you very much for your help.


Please note that the GUI code is NOT something to learn from: its not
advised to use GTK for plugin UI's.
That said, the code is pretty short, and does actually work: perhaps
learn from it, and then use a more lightweight UI framework ( NTK
being my / OpenAV's favorite: http://non.tuxfamily.org/wiki/NTK )
Funny, I was just reading your blog post 
 
about it :)


But I cannot get it to build because of a gtkmm error:

Waf: Entering directory `/home/px/.kituu/bin/src/lv2/build'
[37/44] cxx: plugins/eg-sinsynth.lv2/widget.cpp -> 
build/plugins/eg-sinsynth.lv2/widget.cpp.4.o
[38/44] cxx: plugins/eg-sinsynth.lv2/sinsynth_gui.cpp -> 
build/plugins/eg-sinsynth.lv2/sinsynth_gui.cpp.4.o
[42/44] cshlib: build/plugins/eg-amp.lv2/amp.c.3.o -> 
build/plugins/eg-amp.lv2/eg-amp.lv2/amp.so

[43/44] subst: lv2.pc.in -> build/lv2.pc
In file included from ../plugins/eg-sinsynth.lv2/widget.cpp:4:0:
../plugins/eg-sinsynth.lv2/widget.h:9:31: fatal error: 
gtkmm/drawingarea.h: No such file or directory

 #include 
   ^
compilation terminated.
../plugins/eg-sinsynth.lv2/sinsynth_gui.cpp:9:19: fatal error: gtkmm.h: 
No such file or directory

 #include 
   ^
compilation terminated.
Waf: Leaving directory `/home/px/.kituu/bin/src/lv2/build'
Build failed
 -> task in 'sinsynth_gui' failed (exit status 1):
{task 3066761580L: cxx widget.cpp -> widget.cpp.4.o}
['/usr/bin/g++', '-I/home/px/.kituu/bin/src/lv2', '-DNDEBUG', 
'-fshow-column', '-I/home/px/.kituu/bin/src/lv2/build', 
'-I/home/px/.kituu/bin/src/lv2', '-I/home/px/.kituu/bin/src/lv2/build', 
'-DHAVE_SNDFILE=1', '-DHAVE_GTK2=1', 
'../plugins/eg-sinsynth.lv2/widget.cpp', '-c', '-o', 
'plugins/eg-sinsynth.lv2/widget.cpp.4.o']

 -> task in 'sinsynth_gui' failed (exit status 1):
{task 3066761772L: cxx sinsynth_gui.cpp -> sinsynth_gui.cpp.4.o}
['/usr/bin/g++', '-I/home/px/.kituu/bin/src/lv2', '-DNDEBUG', 
'-fshow-column', '-I/home/px/.kituu/bin/src/lv2/build', 
'-I/home/px/.kituu/bin/src/lv2', '-I/home/px/.kituu/bin/src/lv2/build', 
'-DHAVE_SNDFILE=1', '-DHAVE_GTK2=1', 
'../plugins/eg-sinsynth.lv2/sinsynth_gui.cpp', '-c', '-o', 
'plugins/eg-sinsynth.lv2/sinsynth_gui.cpp.4.o']


Although I do have both

libgtkmm-2.4-dev: /usr/include/gtkmm-2.4/gtkmm.h
libgtkmm-3.0-dev: /usr/include/gtkmm-3.0/gtkmm.h

installed... I too find NTK really nice and lightweight, BTW. I know it 
because it's used by Fabla, Sorcer, NSM etc. A simple sine-generating 
synth plugin with a NTK GUI would be a cool place to start, I must say.


About this pitch-bend thing, I discovered So-404 and it does exactly 
what I want in a way I had not though about :


"If two notes are played together the pitch will slide according to the 
portamento time" I guess that's exactly what I want. Plus an attack time 
setting ;)





OK, so I'm going to get back once I managed to make a basic synth to get to
this pitch bending special case.

Sure, good plan.



I do strongly advise to checkout the plugins: they are a brilliant
reference to make LV2 plugins.

Again, it's really a shame that there is no sound synthesis plugin
demonstrated... I'm going to study them all anyway.

Ok, that's quite a lot of info already I th

Re: [LAD] Guitarix 0.31.0 released

2014-10-02 Thread Thijs van severen 
Op 2-okt.-2014 18:20 schreef "Gianfranco Ceccolini" <
gianfra...@portalmod.com.br>:
>
> Hi LADs
>
> First of all I'd like to thank Hermann for his support and great effort
with the Guitarix code. It really means a lot for us.
>
>
> I also want to get the hook of the USB Audio stretch goal topic and
disclose important information with you guys.
>
>
> As a market product, when we say "USB 2.0 24bit Audio Interface" we mean
the complete package, that is:
>
> A - USB device hardware port;
>
> B - ALSA USB gadget driver running in our device;
>
> C - USB Audio driver running on the host computer - be it Linux, Mac and
Windows.
>
>
> In this scenario, any user would have this feature, independent of
adopted OS and technical knowledge.  This is what the stretch goal is about.
>
>
> Without the stretch goal, what we have already is item A and part of item
B.
>
> Also, as we're adopting class compliant devices, item C is already
"factory shipped" for Linux and Mac boxes.

This is what convinced me to order one!
I'm following the campaign very closely
Good luck guys!!

But not for Windows. Microsoft only provides USB 1.0 Audio class compliant
driver (16bit, 44.1kHz). We don't have Windows developers in the team (and
don't intend to have) and our worst nightmare is to start supporting
Windows drivers, with all it's versions, chaotic organization and kind of
dodgy business model.
>
> Being so, we're outsourcing the Windows USB 2.0 Audio driver.  Part of
the stretch goal money goes into this acquisition. The other remaining part
goes to registering a USB vendor ID and homologation tests to have the USB
compliant logo.
>
> And why am I telling you all this?
>
> Is because considering only the Linux Audio universe, the USB 24bit Audio
is practically a reality, independently of the stretch goal.
>
> The hardware is all set and the USB Gadget driver, although not running
"out-of-the-box" yet, is already included in the ALSA stack and shall be
working in no time. In our current kernel, version 3.4, it is Experimental,
but on the newest mainline kernel, version 3.17, it is not Experimental
anymore.
>
> One of our developers is working full time in it and I'm also pretty sure
that many of the LAD subscribers can give us great advice on this
implementation :-)
>
>
> The Buba and Mango boards.
>
> Another important thing to mention is the $125k stretch goal for the
A23/A33 CPUs.
>
> We're currently using an "off-the-shelf" CoreBoard that features an
AllWinner A20 1.0GHz CPU.
>
> If we reach the goal, we're designing a custom coreboard featuring the
A23/A33 CPUs (they are pin to pin compatible). They are both 1.5GHz, being
the A23 dual core and A33 quad core. This will be called the BubaBoard.
>
> We will design the schematics and will outsource the layout mainly due to
routing DD3 memory which is out of our scope.
>
> Together with the  Bubaboard we're designing a baseboard onto which you
slot the Bubaboard into. This Baseboard will have all connections (audio,
video, USB, etc) in order to use the Bubaboard without the MOD and will be
called MangoBoard.
>
> Both the Buba as the Mango will be released as Open Hardware.  We already
released all ControlChain related hardware as open source and the boards
shall be just the same.
>
> Being hardware designers, our idea is to provide the community with a ARM
Development kit geared towards audio development.  We really miss something
like this available in the market as all ARM based development boards are
much more driven to video than audio.
>
> The Mango shall have decent AD/DA codecs and a good audio circuit
sporting 1/4'jacks  instead of the lousy 3.5mm jacks featured in most ARM
dev boards.
>
> I've seen lots of projects trying to make use of the RPi or even the
Cubieboard for audio and I believe our boards shall boost this kind of
initiatives.
>
> Hope to have clarified everyone.
>
> It's one of my goals to keep a open and sincere communication with the
Linux Audio community and also provide everybody with the knowledge we can
offer.
>
> Unfortunately we don't have infinite resources and thus we depend on
revenue to offer all we want to. The stretch goals are the way to make it.
Hope you guys understand it.
>
> At each day that passes the MOD Team feels a bit more proud of being part
of such a cool community as this.
>
> Kind regards to all
>
> Gianfranco Ceccolini
> The MOD Team.
>
>
>
>
>
> Em 02/10/2014, à(s) 02:11, hermann meyer  escreveu:
>
>> The Guitarix developers proudly present
>>
>> Guitarix release 0.31.0
>>
>> For the uninitiated, Guitarix is a tube amplifier simulation for
>> jack (Linux), with an additional mono and a stereo effect rack.
>> Guitarix includes a large list of plugins[*] and support LADSPA / LV2
plugs as well.
>>
>> The guitarix engine is designed for LIVE usage, and feature ultra fast,
glitch and click free,  preset switching, full Midi and/or remote
controllable (Web UI not included in the distributed tar ball).
>>
>> Here is the " Ultimate Guide t

Re: [LAD] LV2 Pitch bend control port (and function)

2014-10-02 Thread Rui Nuno Capela 

On 10/02/2014 05:48 PM, Rui Nuno Capela wrote:


synthv1 lv2: set each DCO Bandl(imit) On; set DEF Pitchbend range to the
max or else.



best if you have a midi keybd controller that does or have a pitch-bend 
stick or wheel ;)


byee
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Re: [LAD] LV2 Pitch bend control port (and function)

2014-10-02 Thread Rui Nuno Capela 

On 10/02/2014 04:42 PM, Harry van Haaren wrote:

Hi,

When replying, please be careful to reply to the list, as well as the
person: otherwise 1/2 a conversation gets lost ;) I've included
linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org  again.

On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 4:13 PM, Phil CM  wrote:


On 02/10/2014 14:13, Harry van Haaren wrote:


On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 1:14 PM, Phil CM  wrote:


I need a synth with a pitch control. A synth that can be controlled to
produce all tones between one note and another, say from a2 to c3 in an
anti-aliased way, like what you would get in pd by altering the pitch of
a
sine wave.


Hi Phil,

To start, welcome to LV2 programming: audio plugins are fun and complex
area!


Thanks :)



If you haven't already, I suggest you checkout the "plugins" directory
in the lv2 repository. It provides the best example code you'll find,
and accompanying http://lv2plug.in/book/  provides detailed
explainations and best-practices.


This is my bedside reading for the next days to come ; Too bad the examples
do not include a simple synth :(

That's what I thought too, so I wrote a sin-generator a few years ago:
it apparently hasn't been included in the lv2 source yet. I'll CC
David Robillard, and see if that's an option :)

https://github.com/harryhaaren/lv2/tree/master/plugins/eg-sinsynth.lv2

I remember now that it doesn't accept MIDI input yet: which means it
doesn't handle notes, or pitch bend. These can be added quite
trivially, and is something that I'd be willing to collaborate on?
You'd learn how to "manually" use MIDI, and we'd have a better
resource.

Please note that the GUI code is NOT something to learn from: its not
advised to use GTK for plugin UI's.
That said, the code is pretty short, and does actually work: perhaps
learn from it, and then use a more lightweight UI framework ( NTK
being my / OpenAV's favorite: http://non.tuxfamily.org/wiki/NTK )



OK, so I'm going to get back once I managed to make a basic synth to get to
this pitch bending special case.

Sure, good plan.



I do strongly advise to checkout the plugins: they are a brilliant
reference to make LV2 plugins.


Again, it's really a shame that there is no sound synthesis plugin
demonstrated... I'm going to study them all anyway.


Ok, that's quite a lot of info already I think!

LV2 specific development:
#lv2 on irc.freenode.net  (I'm "HarryHaaren", say Hi if/when you're on)
Mailing list (low-traffic):
http://lists.lv2plug.in/listinfo.cgi/devel-lv2plug.in

Cheers, -Harry


Thanks a bunch, Harry


You're welcome. I like LV2, its the way forward: if I can help out
somewhat (apart from developing stuff myself) its also a pleasure, I
know LV2 can be a touch daunting, and a helping hand does make it a
lot easier there!

Cheers, -Harry



synthv1 lv2: set each DCO Bandl(imit) On; set DEF Pitchbend range to the 
max or else.


hth.
cheers.
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Re: [LAD] Guitarix 0.31.0 released

2014-10-02 Thread Gianfranco Ceccolini 
Hi LADs

First of all I’d like to thank Hermann for his support and great effort with 
the Guitarix code. It really means a lot for us.


I also want to get the hook of the USB Audio stretch goal topic and disclose 
important information with you guys. 


As a market product, when we say “USB 2.0 24bit Audio Interface” we mean the 
complete package, that is:

A - USB device hardware port;

B - ALSA USB gadget driver running in our device;

C - USB Audio driver running on the host computer - be it Linux, Mac and 
Windows.


In this scenario, any user would have this feature, independent of adopted OS 
and technical knowledge.  This is what the stretch goal is about.


Without the stretch goal, what we have already is item A and part of item B.  

Also, as we’re adopting class compliant devices, item C is already “factory 
shipped” for Linux and Mac boxes. But not for Windows. Microsoft only provides 
USB 1.0 Audio class compliant driver (16bit, 44.1kHz). We don’t have Windows 
developers in the team (and don’t intend to have) and our worst nightmare is to 
start supporting Windows drivers, with all it’s versions, chaotic organization 
and kind of dodgy business model.

Being so, we’re outsourcing the Windows USB 2.0 Audio driver.  Part of the 
stretch goal money goes into this acquisition. The other remaining part goes to 
registering a USB vendor ID and homologation tests to have the USB compliant 
logo.

And why am I telling you all this?

Is because considering only the Linux Audio universe, the USB 24bit Audio is 
practically a reality, independently of the stretch goal. 

The hardware is all set and the USB Gadget driver, although not running 
“out-of-the-box” yet, is already included in the ALSA stack and shall be 
working in no time. In our current kernel, version 3.4, it is Experimental, but 
on the newest mainline kernel, version 3.17, it is not Experimental anymore. 

One of our developers is working full time in it and I’m also pretty sure that 
many of the LAD subscribers can give us great advice on this implementation :-)


The Buba and Mango boards.

Another important thing to mention is the $125k stretch goal for the A23/A33 
CPUs.

We’re currently using an “off-the-shelf” CoreBoard that features an AllWinner 
A20 1.0GHz CPU.

If we reach the goal, we’re designing a custom coreboard featuring the A23/A33 
CPUs (they are pin to pin compatible). They are both 1.5GHz, being the A23 dual 
core and A33 quad core. This will be called the BubaBoard.

We will design the schematics and will outsource the layout mainly due to 
routing DD3 memory which is out of our scope. 

Together with the  Bubaboard we’re designing a baseboard onto which you slot 
the Bubaboard into. This Baseboard will have all connections (audio, video, 
USB, etc) in order to use the Bubaboard without the MOD and will be called 
MangoBoard.

Both the Buba as the Mango will be released as Open Hardware.  We already 
released all ControlChain related hardware as open source and the boards shall 
be just the same.

Being hardware designers, our idea is to provide the community with a ARM 
Development kit geared towards audio development.  We really miss something 
like this available in the market as all ARM based development boards are much 
more driven to video than audio.

The Mango shall have decent AD/DA codecs and a good audio circuit sporting 
1/4’jacks  instead of the lousy 3.5mm jacks featured in most ARM dev boards.

I’ve seen lots of projects trying to make use of the RPi or even the Cubieboard 
for audio and I believe our boards shall boost this kind of initiatives.

Hope to have clarified everyone. 

It’s one of my goals to keep a open and sincere communication with the Linux 
Audio community and also provide everybody with the knowledge we can offer.

Unfortunately we don’t have infinite resources and thus we depend on revenue to 
offer all we want to. The stretch goals are the way to make it. Hope you guys 
understand it.

At each day that passes the MOD Team feels a bit more proud of being part of 
such a cool community as this.

Kind regards to all

Gianfranco Ceccolini
The MOD Team.





Em 02/10/2014, à(s) 02:11, hermann meyer  escreveu:

> The Guitarix developers proudly present
> 
> Guitarix release 0.31.0 
> 
> For the uninitiated, Guitarix is a tube amplifier simulation for
> jack (Linux), with an additional mono and a stereo effect rack.
> Guitarix includes a large list of plugins[*] and support LADSPA / LV2 plugs 
> as well.
> 
> The guitarix engine is designed for LIVE usage, and feature ultra fast, 
> glitch and click free,  preset switching, full Midi and/or remote 
> controllable (Web UI not included in the distributed tar ball).
> 
> Here is the " Ultimate Guide to Getting Started With Guitarix"
> 
> This release fix a bug in the preset naming schema ( vowel mutation in preset 
> names will crash guitarix)  and introduce some new LV2 plugs:
> * GxRoomSimulator 
> * GxDigit

Re: [LAD] LV2 Pitch bend control port (and function)

2014-10-02 Thread Harry van Haaren 
Hi,

When replying, please be careful to reply to the list, as well as the
person: otherwise 1/2 a conversation gets lost ;) I've included
linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org  again.

On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 4:13 PM, Phil CM  wrote:
>
> On 02/10/2014 14:13, Harry van Haaren wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 1:14 PM, Phil CM  wrote:
>>>
>>> I need a synth with a pitch control. A synth that can be controlled to
>>> produce all tones between one note and another, say from a2 to c3 in an
>>> anti-aliased way, like what you would get in pd by altering the pitch of
>>> a
>>> sine wave.
>>
>> Hi Phil,
>>
>> To start, welcome to LV2 programming: audio plugins are fun and complex
>> area!
>
> Thanks :)
>>
>>
>> If you haven't already, I suggest you checkout the "plugins" directory
>> in the lv2 repository. It provides the best example code you'll find,
>> and accompanying http://lv2plug.in/book/  provides detailed
>> explainations and best-practices.
>
> This is my bedside reading for the next days to come ; Too bad the examples
> do not include a simple synth :(
That's what I thought too, so I wrote a sin-generator a few years ago:
it apparently hasn't been included in the lv2 source yet. I'll CC
David Robillard, and see if that's an option :)

https://github.com/harryhaaren/lv2/tree/master/plugins/eg-sinsynth.lv2

I remember now that it doesn't accept MIDI input yet: which means it
doesn't handle notes, or pitch bend. These can be added quite
trivially, and is something that I'd be willing to collaborate on?
You'd learn how to "manually" use MIDI, and we'd have a better
resource.

Please note that the GUI code is NOT something to learn from: its not
advised to use GTK for plugin UI's.
That said, the code is pretty short, and does actually work: perhaps
learn from it, and then use a more lightweight UI framework ( NTK
being my / OpenAV's favorite: http://non.tuxfamily.org/wiki/NTK )


> OK, so I'm going to get back once I managed to make a basic synth to get to
> this pitch bending special case.
Sure, good plan.


>> I do strongly advise to checkout the plugins: they are a brilliant
>> reference to make LV2 plugins.
>
> Again, it's really a shame that there is no sound synthesis plugin
> demonstrated... I'm going to study them all anyway.
>>
>> Ok, that's quite a lot of info already I think!
>>
>> LV2 specific development:
>> #lv2 on irc.freenode.net  (I'm "HarryHaaren", say Hi if/when you're on)
>> Mailing list (low-traffic):
>> http://lists.lv2plug.in/listinfo.cgi/devel-lv2plug.in
>>
>> Cheers, -Harry
>>
> Thanks a bunch, Harry

You're welcome. I like LV2, its the way forward: if I can help out
somewhat (apart from developing stuff myself) its also a pleasure, I
know LV2 can be a touch daunting, and a helping hand does make it a
lot easier there!

Cheers, -Harry



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Re: [LAD] Experience driven design and Linux Audio

2014-10-02 Thread Ralf Mardorf 
On Thu, 2014-10-02 at 10:24 +0100, gordon...@gjcp.net wrote:
> Ever wonder why your DX21 has only got eight "algorithms" by which the
> operators may be combined?  *That's* why.

That's a reasoning just from your point of view, but not the real
reasoning.

Btw. the DX21 provides 4 operators.
But the flagship is the DX7, with 6 operators and 32 algorithms, usually
feedback is given to 1 operator only, but 2 algorithms provide a grouped
feedback and there are various ways how operators modulate other
operators. The reason why it's different for the DX21 are cost concerns.
Programming the DX7 for most users was to complicated, because there
isn't a usable user interface, just a very small display and a few
switches, quasi the Unity of synthesizer user interfaces. A modular DX7
or better DX2014 with cables and potentiometers and programming it would
become enjoyable, but the synth would become much too expensive.

Analogies or comparisons don't work. There are reasons why completely
contrary designs could be as good as the other. There isn't a theory of
everything for functionality of design.

There are no knobs on a piano, but using a piano for me would be much
more complicated, because a "normal" piano can't be connected to a
sequencer, so playing it for a guitarist like me is hard to do. Why
doesn't a piano provide a neck as a guitar does? I now could make some
reasoning from a guitarist's point of view and ignore the fact that a
piano and a guitar are just different tools for musicians.

Regards,
Ralf

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Re: [LAD] Experience driven design and Linux Audio

2014-10-02 Thread Paul Davis 
On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 5:24 AM,  wrote:

> his is fucking retarded.
>
> Modular synthesizers are dead.  No-one except a few propeller-hatted
> autistic loonies who you wouldn't want to sit next to you on the bus use
> them.  Why?  Because they're a pain in the arse.
>

euro-rack modular synthesis is a big growth area for small companies right
now. doesn't mean they are in widespread use, but to call them dead is
pushing it a bit.


>
> Bob Moog realised this very early on, and he (didn't really) invented the
> damned things.  What he realised was that everyone who uses a modular
> spends a day making silly farting noises and then gets on with having a
> couple of oscillators patched to a mixer, followed by a filter and finally
> followed by a VCA, with maybe an envelope for pitch, filter cutoff and
> amplitude.  So having realised this, Moog developed the Minimoog synth
> which was effectively pre-patched in a hardwired configuration that was
> what, as it turns out, most people actually used.
>

a process very similar to the contrast between mixbus and ardour. mixbus
represents harrison's accumulated experience about what people do when
mixing, ardour represents a totally open-to-whatever approach.

interesting that they both use substantively the same codebase, eh?


>
> I think the design should be led by someone with experience in observing
> what people actually do with the tools that are presented to them.  It's a
> sad fact that UX is a difficult and expensive thing to get right.  Car
> manufacturers learned this a long time ago - how many of you drive a car
> with a manual choke (me, okay) or manual ignition advance (no-one unless
> you're into *really* old ones).
>

it is all relative - in the US almost nobody drives a manual transmission
either.


>
> Did Bob Moog "dumb down" the Minimoog?  Well, you could say that yes he
> did.  But you'd be all kinds of wrong.
>

Moog's biggest contribution to analog synthesis, other than the filter, was
to add a keyboard. Buchla was ahead of Moog in actual synthesis, but was
opposed to the idea that such a capable instrument should be constrained by
the limitations of a keyboard. Moog thought that was stupid, and Moog won
that argument hands down, even though in some deeper sense, Buchla was
correct. UX ... all the way.
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Re: [LAD] LV2 Pitch bend control port (and function)

2014-10-02 Thread Harry van Haaren 
On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 1:14 PM, Phil CM  wrote:
> I need a synth with a pitch control. A synth that can be controlled to
> produce all tones between one note and another, say from a2 to c3 in an
> anti-aliased way, like what you would get in pd by altering the pitch of a
> sine wave.

Hi Phil,

To start, welcome to LV2 programming: audio plugins are fun and complex area!

If you haven't already, I suggest you checkout the "plugins" directory
in the lv2 repository. It provides the best example code you'll find,
and accompanying http://lv2plug.in/book/  provides detailed
explainations and best-practices.

I don't personally use the "lv2-c++-tools" library, so cannot comment
on how it fares currently, but the large warning at the top of the
page you linked ( http://www.nongnu.org/ll-plugins/lv2pftci/ and
http://www.nongnu.org/ll-plugins/hacking.html ) makes me doubtful..
There was a fork of the library, which was somewhat updated to the new
spec: https://github.com/lvtk/lvtk  Last commit 4 months ago.

In answer to your question, the pitch bend signal actually arrives as
MIDI notes: they're a special case (unlike the standard 3-byte note-on
/ note off) event, and must be handles specially too. I don't know how
the lv2-c++-tools handles situations like pitch bend, as I don't use
it: sorry.

I do strongly advise to checkout the plugins: they are a brilliant
reference to make LV2 plugins.

Ok, that's quite a lot of info already I think!

LV2 specific development:
#lv2 on irc.freenode.net  (I'm "HarryHaaren", say Hi if/when you're on)
Mailing list (low-traffic):
http://lists.lv2plug.in/listinfo.cgi/devel-lv2plug.in

Cheers, -Harry

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[LAD] LV2 Pitch bend control port (and function)

2014-10-02 Thread Phil CM 

Dear list,

I need a synth with a pitch control. A synth that can be controlled to 
produce all tones between one note and another, say from a2 to c3 in an 
anti-aliased way, like what you would get in pd by altering the pitch of 
a sine wave. Touwi.


I followed the great "complete idiot" tutorial 
 and was really 
astonished by the concise and powerful code it presented.
The results are here 
, I 
just removed the delay.
This is my first steps in C++, or in audio programming altogether (but 
I've been coding in PHP, Lisp and sh for years, and wrote two music 
players in JS and HTML, oh and a wrote an ultrabasic sample-based drum 
machine java applet ages ago) so I'm reading a lot about it currently. 
Please bear with me if I say something really dumb.


In order to understand how I can achieve what I want, I'd like to 
implement a pitch bend function. You know, the classic, two tone down 
and up of the physical MIDI keyboards, that all LV2 synth plugins I 
tried have.


For that I guess I need 1-a control port (but no widget, since I would 
only be controlling it physically) and 2-a function that acts upon the 
pitch (most probably in the Beep class).
I'd also like to change the waveform type from square to sine (and 
ideally experiment with other waveforms).


Can somebody please point me towards the info that would allow me to 
understand how to do this?


I downloaded and built the complete LV2 specifications, and am currently 
reading the docbook, and the API doc , 
but I fail to see how I can use this object 
 to alter the pitch, or for 
example, change the waveform type (that may well be outside the scope of 
the LV2 framework, of for that matter the LV2::Synth template) or even 
create other lv2:ControlPort than sliders.


Thank you for your patience.

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Re: [LAD] Experience driven design and Linux Audio

2014-10-02 Thread Patrick Shirkey 

On Thu, October 2, 2014 9:14 pm, Neil C Smith wrote:
> On 2 October 2014 11:48, Patrick Shirkey 
> wrote:
>> I've seen those reports too. They are optimistic but potential growth is
>> not the same thing as actually growing. It's more likely to be corporate
>> buyers replacing existing stock.
>
> eg.
> http://www.warc.com/LatestNews/News/PC_sales_rebound_in_Western_Europe.news?ID=32866
>
> Would suggest you're correct in being *mostly* about corporate buyers,
> but not entirely - still +2% in consumer sales, which isn't declining!
>
> Is that "potential growth" or actual though?
>
> Still, "88.2% of statistics are made up on the spot" :-)
>
>> Will Linux Desktop professional or consumer multimedia ever become a
>> growth market?
>
> I'm intrigued to see what effect developments in the gaming arena may
> have on consumer Linux usage over the next couple of years, or on
> general commercial attitudes in other sectors.
>

If SteamOS becomes a fully fledged distribution on the scale of
Ubuntu/Fedora then it might have an affect on adoption rates for LAD
software with the "young" crowd. NVidia is putting a lot of effort into
expanding the use of GPU's with CUDA/OpenCL API's so that might also have
a positive affect on adoption but only if we build the tools to take
advantage of the hardware.

FFMPEG developers are doing a great job of keeping things progressing on
that front. But LAD'ers could do more to build out tools that leverage
GPU's.

We could get some more wind in our sails if some well known
companies/artists/producers actively promoted their support for Linux OS
and encouraged adoption. That has to be a two way street though. For
example famous artists usually give endorsements for something in return.






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Re: [LAD] Experience driven design and Linux Audio

2014-10-02 Thread Neil C Smith 
On 2 October 2014 11:48, Patrick Shirkey  wrote:
> I've seen those reports too. They are optimistic but potential growth is
> not the same thing as actually growing. It's more likely to be corporate
> buyers replacing existing stock.

eg. 
http://www.warc.com/LatestNews/News/PC_sales_rebound_in_Western_Europe.news?ID=32866

Would suggest you're correct in being *mostly* about corporate buyers,
but not entirely - still +2% in consumer sales, which isn't declining!

Is that "potential growth" or actual though?

Still, "88.2% of statistics are made up on the spot" :-)

> Will Linux Desktop professional or consumer multimedia ever become a
> growth market?

I'm intrigued to see what effect developments in the gaming arena may
have on consumer Linux usage over the next couple of years, or on
general commercial attitudes in other sectors.

Neil

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Re: [LAD] Experience driven design and Linux Audio

2014-10-02 Thread Patrick Shirkey 

On Thu, October 2, 2014 7:44 pm, Neil C Smith wrote:
> On 2 October 2014 10:28, Patrick Shirkey 
> wrote:
>> the desktop market is in decline for the consumer portion across
>> the board.
>
> Assuming by "desktop" you mean traditional PC market, various news
> stories I've read over the last few months would suggest that's not
> declining for the first time in years, and potentially even seeing
> some growth.
>

I've seen those reports too. They are optimistic but potential growth is
not the same thing as actually growing. It's more likely to be corporate
buyers replacing existing stock.

The current situation is the consumer desktop PC market when it comes to
audio/multimedia has been decimated by mobile. The Linux Audio Market is
currently doing best in embedded hardware.

If we want to consider Android as a Linux OS then Linux Audio is doing the
best that it has been for years with many companies that have nothing to
do with LAD making a business out of their Android applications.

The corporate market is still there as a potential battle ground and will
probably never go away but getting Linux Audio into the corporate market
is a very tough slog.  Even at companies where they have massive
investments in Linux infrastructure and embedded hardware they are still
using OSX for multimedia production and M$ for general purpose
administration.

It's almost impossible to convince an established Digital Media department
that Linux is an appropriate platform for their team members. Firstly
there is a massive lack of expertise and training. For example, It is very
rare to see a job ad for a multimedia position that uses open source
technology.  The Blender community is making some headway in the training
aspect of the problem but it is slow going. Nearly every "professional"
multimedia person working in corporate space uses those other tools and
platforms without question.

To change that will require getting into the heads of corporate managers
so they make decisions based on a different set of goals. It's a tough
sell. It will also require students to choose Open Source over proprietary
and that is also a hard nut to crack because the proprietary companies
offer incentives to the HoD's that open source can't match.

Will Linux Desktop professional or consumer multimedia ever become a
growth market? I am not convinced that putting additional effort into
usability is the key to cracking it. IMO there are other issues that need
to be resolved first.

Getting a couple more big names in on the game will be useful too.  I
recall Native-Instruments were on the fence a couple of years back. They
needed more convincing at the time. Maybe they have an update about their
assessment of the current market?

Has anyone here actually tried selling *any* kind of app on the Ubuntu App
Store?

Does anyone have actual data about the amount of people out there who use
LAD tools?

>From my perspective the ad hits on LAU Guide are pretty much static after
the past 4 years I am not seeing significant growth or decline month on
month.  One could spin it that we have seen overall growth because it is
unlikely that a lot of the same people would return to the LAU-Guide on a
regular basis. That suggests that there is a reasonable sized potentially
untapped market out there of at least 100k. Who are these mysterious
people and will they spend any money? If I had tracking tags on the site I
might be able to provide more details but I don't.

Until someone nails a mega successful app/model with Linux the other
companies waiting in the wings will continue to dip their toes.


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Re: [LAD] Experience driven design and Linux Audio

2014-10-02 Thread Neil C Smith 
On 2 October 2014 10:28, Patrick Shirkey  wrote:
> the desktop market is in decline for the consumer portion across
> the board.

Assuming by "desktop" you mean traditional PC market, various news
stories I've read over the last few months would suggest that's not
declining for the first time in years, and potentially even seeing
some growth.

Best wishes,

Neil




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Re: [LAD] Experience driven design and Linux Audio

2014-10-02 Thread Patrick Shirkey 

On Thu, October 2, 2014 7:00 pm, Will Godfrey wrote:
> On Wed, 1 Oct 2014 21:40:10 -0700 (PDT)
> Len Ovens  wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 1 Oct 2014, Paul Davis wrote:
>>
>> > Here's an interesting counterpoint or follow up point or whatever.
>> I've queued it to
>> > start at the right time, listen till about 31:00 (or longer if you
>> want). The key point
>> > I wanted to highlight was Gerhard's point about saying "No" to user
>> requests. But, being
>> > Gerhard, he has other interesting points to make as well.
>> >
>> > src="//www.dailymotion.com/embed/video/x26axz5?start=1530"
>> allowfullscreen>>
>> An interesting chat. In his case the reasons for saying no to user
>> requests might be different, though not by much.
>>
>> I also realize maybe I am taking the original question off of what it
>> was
>> asking. The original talk was about something that is perhaps not
>> understandable in the context of creation rather consuming. Many of the
>> newer DEs are frustrating for developers (not just SW development), but
>> developers even though there are many, are a very small percentage of
>> computer users. Most are consumers, games and browsing are almost all
>> that
>> happens. From that POV win8, unity, gnome3, OSx, Android, etc. all make
>> sense. From a developers POV (POV meaning personal use), they don't.
>> Someone who is creating music, video or graphics is a developer and
>> their
>> needs are not the same as the consumer. Once that difference is pushed
>> out of the way and one looks at the user experience from a developer's
>> POV
>> the "experience" that is expected is different but it is still there.
>
> 
>
> I found myself nodding all the way through this!
>
> Also, it seems that as time goes by a lot of people are using steadily
> more
> powerful equipment to actually do less! Whether this is what they want to
> do or
> whether it's what the interface *allows* them to do is a moot point.
>
> As someone who tries to get the most out of anything I use, I find most
> commercial software extremely frustrating in the way it strait-jackets
> users. I
> think this also blocks curiosity and maybe stops more youngsters joining
> the
> creative communities.
>
> I think this relates back to the topic as in who's experience should lead
> the
> design?
>

If "youngsters" are people under the age of, say 25 then, most of them
will be blocked from LAD by not having access to a Linux PC. The ones who
do will mostly be doing academic study, scientific research or working for
governments who have chosen Linux instead of the other options. It's
increasingly unlikely they will have Linux Desktop PC's at home.

Very few new people are taking the time to install Linux OS's on desktop
PC's and the desktop market is in decline for the consumer portion across
the board. The majority of the shift to Unix has been for Android,
ChromeOS, OSX with firefoxOS and Tizen coming closer to fruition each day.
The remaining professional portion of the market which I assume Harry is
targeting for a sustainable income is well and truly in the OSX camp. It's
going to be hard to pull them away from OSX to this OS. Even with really
slick interfaces they generally have a different mindset that defines
their reasoning.

As I was told once. "it's not about how much money they can save, but how
much money they can make..."

Linux has seen wide adoption in the embedded audio hardware market but
many of the companies that make audio hardware running on Linux systems do
not participate directly here.

So in terms of usability and this discussion the majority of LAD
professionally focused developers are targeting the scientific/academic
markets and embedded hardware markets. In that case usability takes second
place to raw power and functionality.

There is also the web market but I am in a clear minority on the
importance of that round here.



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Re: [LAD] Experience driven design and Linux Audio

2014-10-02 Thread gordonjcp 
On Thu, Oct 02, 2014 at 10:00:32AM +0100, Will Godfrey wrote:
> > I also realize maybe I am taking the original question off of what it was 
> > asking. The original talk was about something that is perhaps not 
> > understandable in the context of creation rather consuming. Many of the 
> > newer DEs are frustrating for developers (not just SW development), but 
> > developers even though there are many, are a very small percentage of 
> > computer users. Most are consumers, games and browsing are almost all that 
> > happens. From that POV win8, unity, gnome3, OSx, Android, etc. all make 
> > sense. From a developers POV (POV meaning personal use), they don't. 
> > Someone who is creating music, video or graphics is a developer and their 
> > needs are not the same as the consumer. Once that difference is pushed 
> > out of the way and one looks at the user experience from a developer's POV 
> > the "experience" that is expected is different but it is still there.

I found Unity to be far, far quicker and easier to get around than anything 
that has gone before.  It took a bit of adjustment after using Gnome 2, but I 
can't see me ever going back.

> As someone who tries to get the most out of anything I use, I find most
> commercial software extremely frustrating in the way it strait-jackets users. 
> I
> think this also blocks curiosity and maybe stops more youngsters joining the
> creative communities.

But that starts to sound like the user arguments that put me off developing 
Linux audio software in the first place.  There seems to be a mindset of 
"software shouldn't waste cycles looking nice and being easy to use" which 
suggests that things ought to look shite and be difficult to use with every 
conceivable option exposed to the user, because it gives them "more 
flexibility".

This is fucking retarded.

Modular synthesizers are dead.  No-one except a few propeller-hatted autistic 
loonies who you wouldn't want to sit next to you on the bus use them.  Why?  
Because they're a pain in the arse.

Bob Moog realised this very early on, and he (didn't really) invented the 
damned things.  What he realised was that everyone who uses a modular spends a 
day making silly farting noises and then gets on with having a couple of 
oscillators patched to a mixer, followed by a filter and finally followed by a 
VCA, with maybe an envelope for pitch, filter cutoff and amplitude.  So having 
realised this, Moog developed the Minimoog synth which was effectively 
pre-patched in a hardwired configuration that was what, as it turns out, most 
people actually used.

Yes, you can do a lot of things with a modular, but it takes a long time to get 
there and how many of them are ultimately musically useful? 

I learned the same lesson myself after coming at it the hard way when I wrote 
an eight-operator FM softsynth where any operator could be routed to any other 
operator (even itself) in a giant matrix of 64 controls.

It was fucking retarded.

About all it did was make distorted hissing noises or collossal farting noises, 
or with *extreme* care and turning off most of the operators you could coax a 
fairly convincing DX rubber band bass out of it.  If you set all the operators 
to feed back to themselves and feed the output bus, you got a brutal supersaw, 
which I guess was a useful trick.

Yes, it was extremely powerful and versatile, but actually it turned out that 
this didn't make it useful.  It needed to be *less* powerful and versatile to 
filter out all the useless combinations.  Ever wonder why your DX21 has only 
got eight "algorithms" by which the operators may be combined?  *That's* why.

> I think this relates back to the topic as in who's experience should lead the
> design?

I think the design should be led by someone with experience in observing what 
people actually do with the tools that are presented to them.  It's a sad fact 
that UX is a difficult and expensive thing to get right.  Car manufacturers 
learned this a long time ago - how many of you drive a car with a manual choke 
(me, okay) or manual ignition advance (no-one unless you're into *really* old 
ones).

Did Bob Moog "dumb down" the Minimoog?  Well, you could say that yes he did.  
But you'd be all kinds of wrong.

-- 
Gordonjcp MM0YEQ

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Re: [LAD] Experience driven design and Linux Audio

2014-10-02 Thread Will Godfrey 
On Wed, 1 Oct 2014 21:40:10 -0700 (PDT)
Len Ovens  wrote:

> On Wed, 1 Oct 2014, Paul Davis wrote:
> 
> > Here's an interesting counterpoint or follow up point or whatever. I've 
> > queued it to
> > start at the right time, listen till about 31:00 (or longer if you want). 
> > The key point
> > I wanted to highlight was Gerhard's point about saying "No" to user 
> > requests. But, being
> > Gerhard, he has other interesting points to make as well.
> > 
> > src="//www.dailymotion.com/embed/video/x26axz5?start=1530" 
> > allowfullscreen> 
> An interesting chat. In his case the reasons for saying no to user 
> requests might be different, though not by much.
> 
> I also realize maybe I am taking the original question off of what it was 
> asking. The original talk was about something that is perhaps not 
> understandable in the context of creation rather consuming. Many of the 
> newer DEs are frustrating for developers (not just SW development), but 
> developers even though there are many, are a very small percentage of 
> computer users. Most are consumers, games and browsing are almost all that 
> happens. From that POV win8, unity, gnome3, OSx, Android, etc. all make 
> sense. From a developers POV (POV meaning personal use), they don't. 
> Someone who is creating music, video or graphics is a developer and their 
> needs are not the same as the consumer. Once that difference is pushed 
> out of the way and one looks at the user experience from a developer's POV 
> the "experience" that is expected is different but it is still there.



I found myself nodding all the way through this!

Also, it seems that as time goes by a lot of people are using steadily more
powerful equipment to actually do less! Whether this is what they want to do or
whether it's what the interface *allows* them to do is a moot point.

As someone who tries to get the most out of anything I use, I find most
commercial software extremely frustrating in the way it strait-jackets users. I
think this also blocks curiosity and maybe stops more youngsters joining the
creative communities.

I think this relates back to the topic as in who's experience should lead the
design?

-- 
Will J Godfrey
http://www.musically.me.uk
Say you have a poem and I have a tune.
Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.
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[LAD] Units (was: Re: Experience driven design and Linux Audio)

2014-10-02 Thread Thorsten Wilms 

On 01.10.2014 22:19, Fons Adriaensen wrote:


The many times I've had to set a delay time the most convenient
unit could have been samples, millisecs or meters (at the speed
of sound), depending on the context. I've never had the need to
set it in beats. Which are not even a fixed unit but require the
delay processor to know the current bpm value. Could be done in
an app or plugin that mainly deals with beats, not in a general-
purpose plugin.


Sounds like a piece of functionality that should be covered once, for 
all, ideally. As some kind of unit conversion/entry lib/plugin.


For every plugin time parameter where any of the provided units make 
sense, there would be an input field with a default unit for that 
specific parameter, and a way to switch between samples, ms, s, d:h:m:s, 
..., meters at [some] speed, beats at hots-provided bpm.


The space required and the shear number of options would infer a cost 
with no payback for some users, but otherwise could make for a great 
user experience ;), where:
- no distraction is caused by having to do workarounds, even just having 
to get out the calculator.
- the consistency across plugins/apps means the interface can be learned 
once, with gains in efficiency on repeated use.


Another candidate would be frequency/pitch.


--
Thorsten Wilms

thorwil's design for free software:
http://thorwil.wordpress.com/
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