Re: [LAD] GuitarSynth
I understand. Thanks again Gerald On 28.04.2015 21:09, Chris Cannam wrote: > > On Tue, Apr 28, 2015, at 05:12 PM, Gerald wrote: >> By 'crude' do you mean it does the job, but not that well? > What I really mean is that it wasn't written for use in a specific > application, so it hasn't had any real testing or evaluation. The > purpose of it is to be a handy tool that you can use to figure out > whether this sort of transformation makes a difference to your feature > extractor, rather than necessarily to be the final implementation you'd > actually put in the extractor. > > > Chris > ___ > Linux-audio-dev mailing list > Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] GuitarSynth
On Tue, Apr 28, 2015, at 05:12 PM, Gerald wrote: > By 'crude' do you mean it does the job, but not that well? What I really mean is that it wasn't written for use in a specific application, so it hasn't had any real testing or evaluation. The purpose of it is to be a handy tool that you can use to figure out whether this sort of transformation makes a difference to your feature extractor, rather than necessarily to be the final implementation you'd actually put in the extractor. Chris ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] GuitarSynth
No problem. I wish I had polyphony!! It's only monophone since i'm not an expert on the matter. Right now i'm converting it into a lv2 plugin (actually lv2,vst, au by virtue of falktx's DPF). I have no idea when and how (well not quite how) i'll achieve polyphony, probably never. But alot of things can be learnt on the way (source-filter separation, non-neg matrix factorization, wavelets). Not to mention the code from the people on the list/IRC (thanks guys). It's my friday evenings hacking project, after the kids are in bed. And it's fun. Gerald On 28.04.2015 19:25, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > Did you already release a git version that is able to handle polyphony? > > My apologies for not testing it. I promise I'll do ASAP. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
[LAD] GuitarSynth
On Tue, 28 Apr 2015 17:10:55 +0200, Gerald wrote: >Hi Ralf, >this works pretty good with my lowpass->rectify->aubio pitch detection. >What I want to work on (once GuitarSynth is ported to DPF) is a >source-filter analysis (see U Zölzer: DAFX) to extract the spectral >envelope (timbre) of the guitar. As Zölzer putts it, it is then >possible to obtain a neutral frequency analysis, that just the >tones/frequencies without their attenuation due to playing technique. >This is done simply by dividing the FFT'd input signal by the envelope. >I think that should be done before the pitch detection. And anyway I >want to convolve/multiply the envelope with the synths (as an option in >the GUI). Then GuitarSynth will really be a guitar synth ;) >Gerald > >On 28.04.2015 15:58, Ralf Mardorf wrote: >> A simple example, without or even with compressor, play >> >> g string - fret 3 and slide to fret 5, hold the tone >> d string - fret 3 and slide to fret 5, hammer on and pull off fret 7 I only build your software until now, since I don't had/have time to test it at the moment. But I'll test latest pull from git ASAP. At the moment I only can confirm, that I was able to launch this versions and they showed up in jackd :): [rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ ls -hanG /usr/src/GuitarSynth/build/ total 344K drwxr-xr-x 2 1000 4.0K Apr 25 19:10 . drwxr-xr-x 4 1000 4.0K Apr 25 10:29 .. -rwxr-xr-x 1 1000 77K Apr 18 14:39 GuitarSynth2.0a683c4 -rwxr-xr-x 1 1000 77K Apr 19 19:24 GuitarSynth2.9ee232d -rwxr-xr-x 1 1000 77K Apr 18 21:06 GuitarSynth2.dcd272d -rwxr-xr-x 1 1000 77K Apr 25 10:32 GuitarSynth2-ge7356fc Did you already release a git version that is able to handle polyphony? My apologies for not testing it. I promise I'll do ASAP. Your project is cool, very interesting. I don't like to pay for a hex pickup that needs to be installed to my vintage guitar and that in addition needs a stand alone synth to convert to MIDI. I would like some kind of converter that is able to e.g. use my Oberheim Matrix-1000, without damaging my guitar. The Matrix-1000 has got a guitar mode! It's one of my best synth, but I try to use it as less as possible, since if ever a Curtis/CEM chip should get broken, there's no chance for me to pay for a spare part. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doug_Curtis ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] GuitarSynth
Thanks Chris. By 'crude' do you mean it does the job, but not that well? Gerald On 28.04.2015 17:45, Chris Cannam wrote: > On Tue, Apr 28, 2015, at 04:10 PM, Gerald wrote: >> [...] dividing the FFT'd input signal by the envelope > This LADSPA plugin > > https://code.soundsoftware.ac.uk/projects/preprocess > > will do a crude job of that, if you want to try it out. It uses a > cepstral envelope estimator. > > > Chris > ___ > Linux-audio-dev mailing list > Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] GuitarSynth
On Tue, Apr 28, 2015, at 04:10 PM, Gerald wrote: > [...] dividing the FFT'd input signal by the envelope This LADSPA plugin https://code.soundsoftware.ac.uk/projects/preprocess will do a crude job of that, if you want to try it out. It uses a cepstral envelope estimator. Chris ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] GuitarSynth
Hi Ralf, this works pretty good with my lowpass->rectify->aubio pitch detection. What I want to work on (once GuitarSynth is ported to DPF) is a source-filter analysis (see U Zölzer: DAFX) to extract the spectral envelope (timbre) of the guitar. As Zölzer putts it, it is then possible to obtain a neutral frequency analysis, that just the tones/frequencies without their attenuation due to playing technique. This is done simply by dividing the FFT'd input signal by the envelope. I think that should be done before the pitch detection. And anyway I want to convolve/multiply the envelope with the synths (as an option in the GUI). Then GuitarSynth will really be a guitar synth ;) Gerald On 28.04.2015 15:58, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > A simple example, without or even with compressor, play > > g string - fret 3 and slide to fret 5, hold the tone > d string - fret 3 and slide to fret 5, hammer on and pull off fret 7 ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] GuitarSynth
On Tue, 28 Apr 2015 13:48:54 +0200, Gerald wrote: >On 28.04.2015 12:31, Ralf Mardorf wrote: >> PS: Keep in mind that A440 not necessarily is always true. When you >> program, please keep in mind, that one day, when your program should >> be able to do what you want it to do, users should be able to chose >> the pitch for non-standard A in decimal place steps. >well the goal is to not that dependent on the frequencies being played, >but rather on the timbre/frequency envelope of the instrument. This way >not the current tuning would be the serious issue, >but the declining quality of the strings over time. Hi Gerald, are you sure that even playing technique wouldn't be an issue that way? Bend, slide, hammer on, pull off, muted, fingertip, plectrum or even different kinds of strings, 09 - ... nickle round wound, 10 - ... steel flat wound etc.? Ok, if you don't mix the original guitar signal with the converted signal/MIDI instrument, you don't need to mute and perhaps you can resist to play a mix of fingertip and plectrum, but you likely will slide, hammer on and pull off, not only when playing monophonic, but also when playing chords. IOW even if your software can learn what the "main" timbre on different strings and octaves for different tones is, does it work for guitar playing techniques or does the guitarist need to play the guitar in a keyboard style? A simple example, without or even with compressor, play g string - fret 3 and slide to fret 5, hold the tone d string - fret 3 and slide to fret 5, hammer on and pull off fret 7 do the same, but instead of fret 3, start somewhere behind fret 12, at least without compression already the loudness could become an issue, while you still clearly hear changing frequencies. That were just 2 tones. Now play e string - fret 3 hold the tone b string - fret 3 hammer on and pull off fret 5 g string - fret 4 hold the tone d string - fret 5 hold the tone If you like you could slide the g chord to an a chord before you do the hammering. Do this on different positions, e.g. play a c chord this way. Perhaps I misunderstand what "timbre/frequency envelope" is. Regards, Ralf ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] GuitarSynth
well the goal is to not that dependent on the frequencies being played, but rather on the timbre/frequency envelope of the instrument. This way not the current tuning would be the serious issue, but the declining quality of the strings over time. Gerald On 28.04.2015 12:31, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > PS: Keep in mind that A440 not necessarily is always true. When you > program, please keep in mind, that one day, when your program should be > able to do what you want it to do, users should be able to chose the > pitch for non-standard A in decimal place steps. > ___ > Linux-audio-dev mailing list > Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] GuitarSynth
PS: Keep in mind that A440 not necessarily is always true. When you program, please keep in mind, that one day, when your program should be able to do what you want it to do, users should be able to chose the pitch for non-standard A in decimal place steps. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] GuitarSynth
On Tue, 28 Apr 2015 01:55:04 +0100, Harry van Haaren wrote: >On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 12:57 AM, Tim E. Real >wrote: >> The effect is striking. You can hear it without even plugging the >> guitar in. As you adjust the pickup ever higher, and pluck the >> strings, you can hear the horrible overtones from the frequency >> splitting. > >Wow really? I didn't know that.. but I'll try it tomorrow! > >Thanks for the 'note' ;) -Harry I adjust the highs of my single coils depending to what I do. I anyway have to do this all the times, since they lower when playing. A while back I sampled my guitar for the sound sampler of my tablet PC. Since I needed a blues g hexatonic, I decided to sample the scale close to the twelfth fret (IOW around the thirteenth and fifteens fret), because a single coil close to the neck then produces an unique sound. Indeed, when playing a guitar I seldom want the noise caused by to high coils, but when recording it to make a sampler sound it's wanted for one or he other tone, "dirt" makes a sound sample sound more natural. The day before I adjusted action and intonation. Too funny, just one day, perhaps caused by another temperature of the room and the intonation that was nearly perfect the day before, wasn't perfect anymore. I guess intonation of guitars could become a serious issue for converters. I place value on a good intonation, but if the tuning is perfect when playing open and for the twelfth fret, the tuning for the frets between open and twelfth fret still could be disastrous. I only can fit the intonation to the way I play my guitar, if somebody else should prefer to play chords and scales in other positions, the intonation likely is broken. However, the e guitar at least has a relatively good intonation. My classical guitar has got a very "unique", "odd" intonation ;) and there's no action to adjust it. Regards, Ralf ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] GuitarSynth
Interesting note, you must have ears if you can hear the overtones that clear without amplification. It also depends on the guitar body itself? A solid body (loke LP) would behave different than a strat? Gerald On 28.04.2015 02:55, Harry van Haaren wrote: > On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 12:57 AM, Tim E. Real wrote: >> The effect is striking. You can hear it without even plugging the guitar in. >> As you adjust the pickup ever higher, and pluck the strings, you can >> hear the horrible overtones from the frequency splitting. > Wow really? I didn't know that.. but I'll try it tomorrow! > > Thanks for the 'note' ;) -Harry > ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
