[LAD] MIDI monitor

[Ralf Mardorf]

Hi :)

I'm new to the list and I'm not a Linux audio developer. I was a coder
for C64 MIDI and audio, programming in Assembler, I have less knowledge
about C/C++.

Because I have to do some research, e.g. because of strange behaviour of
MTC, I need a MIDI monitor, that shows MIDI bytes instead of an
interpretation of the MIDI events, like it's done by gmidimonitor and
kmidimon.

I just wish to have an application that is reading a timer and byte by byte, so 
that I can scroll through the MIDI bytes.

START:
001 Is the MIDI client/port ready?
002 If so, get the TIME and the MIDI Byte and write both informations to
an array.
003 If there's pushed a key, jump to STOP
004 If not, go to START

STOP:
A routine that shows the TIMER and MIDI Bytes in a list, that can be
scrolled, maybe simply by saving it as a file.txt.

It should look like this:

minutes:seconds:milliseconds MIDI-Byte

00:00:004 f0
00:00:005 0a
00:00:006 0f
00:00:007 05

Because I need to sync Linux to my Atari ST I was thinking of programming such 
a MIDI monitor for the Atari in GFA-BASIC and for Linux in X11-BASIC, that 
nearly is the same BASIC, but I don't know if there is a way to open ALSA MIDI 
clients/ports for the INP command.

As an alternative I guess I could try to compile and change this source code to 
my needs: 
http://www.alsa-project.org/alsa-doc/alsa-lib/_2test_2rawmidi_8c-example.html

I know that I have to delete the line numbers, but I don't know how to compile 
it and what header is needed to be included for using a timer and array.

I need the complete commands or a makefile including the links for the needed 
libs etc., to compile and link this source code.
Also the changed complete commands or a makefile when I changed the source code 
using a timer and array.

Or just the MIDI monitor I need.

I don't want to become a developer for Linux, I just want to do researches for 
bug reports by using a MIDI monitor.

E.g.:

Rosegarden can run as MTC master and sync a Yamaha RX21
Rosegarden can't sync the same way the Atari's Cubase 3.1
Ardour can run as master and sync an Atari Cubase

Another example where definitive is the need to see bytes, is to see if MIDI 
data is send by running status or not.

Can anybody help me to get such a MIDI monitor, maybe by simply writing me how 
to compile the rwamidi example?

Cheers,
Ralf




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Re: [LAD] MIDI monitor

[Ralf Mardorf]

Hi Pedro :)

> Nobody has answered yet?
>   

yep, thank you for your reply.

>> I'm new to the list and I'm not a Linux audio developer. I was a coder
>> for C64 MIDI and audio, programming in Assembler, I have less knowledge
>> about C/C++.
>>
>> Because I have to do some research, e.g. because of strange behaviour of
>> MTC, I need a MIDI monitor, that shows MIDI bytes instead of an
>> interpretation of the MIDI events, like it's done by gmidimonitor and
>> kmidimon.
>> 
>
> You can try the utility "amidi" (from the alsa-utils package) with the --dump 
> option. See http://www.linuxmanpages.com/man1/amidi.1.php
>   

Okay, this seems not to include information about any timer, but I could
compare it with the information from Kmidimon, that will be okay.

>> Can anybody help me to get such a MIDI monitor, maybe by simply writing me
>> how to compile the rwamidi example?
>> 
>
> edit the source, change the line:
>   #include "../include/asoundlib.h"
> by
>   #include 
>
> compile it with this command:
>
>   $ gcc -o rawmidi -lasound rawmidi.c
>
> You need the -devel version of the alsa library package installed first, and 
> the GCC compiler.
>   

If I will add a dump, maybe buy using an array and if I will include
some timer information, do I have to include any other headers?

I think I can add some program code myself, that might be not good, but
good enough for my needs and maybe a step to bear down my concerns about
C/C++ and the structure of Linux.

I have to admit that I don't like Linux for audio very much, but because
it seems to be the only FOSS OS that seriously can do audio, I have no
choice, I have to use it. I more less like closed source codes and
expensive or cracked software for audio, so I have to become more
familiar with Linux, if I like to do this or not.

;)

Thanx again,
Ralf



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Re: [LAD] MIDI monitor

[Ralf Mardorf]

Miguel Morales wrote:
> http://www.nabble.com/ART-X-11-Midi-MasterControl-tt18042726.html
>   

Hi Miguel :)

this might be useful information for me to. Thank you. OT: Konqueror
couldn't display the side, while Icedove (Firefox) was fine.

Cheers,
Ralf



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Re: [LAD] Jack MTC/MMC slaving

[Ralf Mardorf]

Alex Montgomery wrote:
>
> I think this kind of tools is a good candidate to be developed as
> an "in server" JACK client. With the dbus based dynamic access of
> available "in server" clients installed on a machine, it will be
> quite easy to load/unload this kind of tool when needed (Netjack2
> uses this model of "in server" clients).
>
>
> Ok, so Nedko and I got a release out that supports goto/locate MMC
> messages and command-line parameters. We're going to switch it over to
> using JACK midi instead of ALSA midi next. Should we start thinking
> about making this an "in server" client now? Could someone familiar
> with this stuff comment on this?
>
> Thanks,
> -- Alex

I'm not familiar with MMC and I'm less familiar with Linux MIDI, because
of to much troubles, but I know that I need to sync an Atari ST with
Linux MIDI by MTC and this isn't possible for all applications. It would
be good if JACK transport can be master and slave for song position
pointer and also timing clock. ALSA MIDI is more important than JACK MIDI.

Cheers,
Ralf



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Re: [LAD] Jack MTC/MMC slaving

[Ralf Mardorf]

Stéphane Letz wrote:
> Le 24 nov. 08 à 18:35, Jack O'Quin a écrit :
>
>   
>> On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 11:28 AM, Alex Montgomery
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> 
 I think this kind of tools is a good candidate to be developed as  
 an "in
 server" JACK client. With the dbus based dynamic access of  
 available "in
 server" clients installed on a machine, it will be quite easy to  
 load/unload
 this kind of tool when needed (Netjack2 uses this model of "in  
 server"
 clients).
 
>>> Ok, so Nedko and I got a release out that supports goto/locate MMC  
>>> messages
>>> and command-line parameters. We're going to switch it over to using  
>>> JACK
>>> midi instead of ALSA midi next. Should we start thinking about  
>>> making this
>>> an "in server" client now? Could someone familiar with this stuff  
>>> comment on
>>> this?
>>>   
>> I recommend making it a normal external client.  That will be easier
>> to code and test, and easier to make work with both jack1 and jack2
>> servers.
>> -- 
>> joq
>> 
>
>
>
> Maybe you can structure the code to  have the "parameter parsing" part  
> clearly separated from "opening/activating the jack client" part. Then  
> it will be easier to make it as an internal client.
>
> Stephane

I don't know how you coders have to handle things, but for users it will
be more comfortable, if such functions are not some external
applications, it should be part of JACK, if this won't cause to much
troubles for you.



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Re: [LAD] Jack MTC/MMC slaving

[Ralf Mardorf]

Paul Davis wrote:
> MIDI SPP and MIDI Clock are unrelated to MMC.
>
> it is not possible to interpet either of them without tempo/meter
> information - they do not refer to an audio-based timeline, only a
> "musical time" (bars|beats|ticks).
>   

Sorry, you're right, the applications have to handle informations about
e.g. the actual song position by the sum of 1/16 notes, from the
starting point of a song. OT: Unfortunately Ardour as master, can sync
an Atari Cubase, but not as slave, while Rosegarden as master, can sync
an RX21, but not an Atari Cubase.

> the interesting cases all involve the MMC source outside the computer,
> which makes using ALSA MIDI directly a bit more sensible (IMHO).

That is, what I was thinking of.



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Re: [LAD] Jack MTC/MMC slaving

[Ralf Mardorf]

Alex Montgomery wrote:
>
> that said, i do think its a little odd to make this utility connect to
> JACK MIDI. any JACK MIDI client sending MMC to do transport control is
> just being stupid - it can control the transport directly. the
> interesting cases all involve the MMC source outside the computer,
> which
> makes using ALSA MIDI directly a bit more sensible (IMHO).
>
>
> Wow, really? I thought that JACK (via ALSA on Linux, but this is
> implementation dependent) supported access to external ports anyway.
> We were going to switch to JACK midi because it is theoretically more
> portable (to OS X, say) and more JACK compliant (which a JACK
> transport app should be), without adding any dependencies (obviously
> we are already using the JACK libraries since jackctlmmc is a JACK
> client.).  I assumed that the only repercussion of switching to JACK
> midi would be that the user would have to make the connection to the
> external ports using a JACK controller instead of alsa utilities like
> aconnect. In the case of people using an app like QJackctl, the
> application would simply hop to the JACK tab instead of the ALSA tab.
> Is that not true? Are there other complications that could stop users
> from connecting to external midi devices?
>
> It's good news if ALSA is the better choice; it's how the code is
> currently written anyway.
>  
> -- Alex

The jackd -dalsa -X option seems to make clients available for both
QjackCtl tabs, but e.g. Qtractor's connection GUI only shows ALSA.



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Re: [LAD] Jack MTC/MMC slaving

[Ralf Mardorf]

> no, silly because if QTractor wants to control JACK transport, its not
> going to plan on doing it by sending MMC.

That's true, but if JACK transport should send/receive MMC by MIDI
to/from an external device, there is the need to connect the ports, that
transmits/receive the MMC commands, to the hardware MIDI out/in ports.
So it would be fine, if this is possible by the Qtractor GUI, resp. it's
silly, because I didn't know that Qtractor is transmitting MMC by itself
and that's why there isn't the need to do this by Qtractor. BUT if JACK
will be the source and receiver for MMC, than applications like Qtractor
don't need to be able to know MMC by them self. If this is only done by
JACK and it's fine, than nobody has to fear, that an application is a
broken MMC master/slave. Also it's silly to run more than one
application, that is able to know MMC, if they all are JACK transport
compatible. It's antithetic to say Linux is flexible, because we can
choose the applications that we need, without running things we don't
need and on the other side, we run more than one application, that is
MMC able. JACK should be the instance that knows MMC and not the HD
recorders and sequencers.




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Re: [LAD] Jack MTC/MMC slaving

[Ralf Mardorf]

> qtractor and jackmmcctl will probably step on each other
> toes. hmmm...
>   

You are right Nui. A user like me is just a stupid user who will make
music. Maybe someone like me runs JACK, Ardour and Qtractor and wants to
control an external machine by MMC. We don't read all the Wikis and
FAQs, we should do this, but we don't do it. What will happen, if
someone pushes "play" by QjackCtl and JACK, Ardour and Qtractor send
MMC, maybe because of bugs at different times, with a short delay?




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Re: [LAD] Jack MTC/MMC slaving

[Ralf Mardorf]

> You are right *Nui*.
>   

Pardon, *Rui* :)





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Re: [LAD] Audio vs ASUS M2N-SLI Deluxe mobo

[Ralf Mardorf]

Hi :)

my reply might fail the topic, but maybe there is something in common.

I have an ASUS M2A-VM HDMI. I disabled on-board audio and HDMI and
removed the HDMI PCIe card.
If I try to use MIDI applications like Rosegarden, Qtractor and soft
synth like Qsynth (using an USB MIDI IO device and a Envy24 based sound
card) I only get crashes.
I tried to generate a core file, but this didn't work until now, so I
have no information about what is going wrong at the moment.

Okay, in my case it's not audio that's not working, but MIDI, anyway,
both has to do with ALSA.

I'm sorry if this is something complete different.

Cheers,
Ralf

Gene Heskett wrote:
> Greetings;
>
> Up2date reinstall of the latest FU8 respin.
>
> The various audio devices found by an lspci -vv on this mobo are:
> ==
> 00:06.1 Audio device: nVidia Corporation MCP55 High Definition Audio (rev a2)
> Subsystem: ASUSTeK Computer Inc. Unknown device 81f6
> Control: I/O- Mem+ BusMaster+ SpecCycle- MemWINV- VGASnoop- ParErr- 
> Stepping- SERR- FastB2B- DisINTx-
> Status: Cap+ 66MHz+ UDF- FastB2B+ ParErr- DEVSEL=fast >TAbort- 
> SERR-  Latency: 0 (500ns min, 1250ns max)
> Interrupt: pin B routed to IRQ 21
> Region 0: Memory at fe024000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=16K]
> Capabilities: [44] Power Management version 2
> Flags: PMEClk- DSI- D1- D2- AuxCurrent=0mA 
> PME(D0-,D1-,D2-,D3hot+,D3cold+)
> Status: D0 PME-Enable- DSel=0 DScale=0 PME-
> Capabilities: [50] Message Signalled Interrupts: Mask+ 64bit+ 
> Queue=0/0 Enable-
> Address:   Data: 
> Masking:   Pending: 
> Capabilities: [6c] HyperTransport: MSI Mapping Enable+ Fixed+
> Kernel driver in use: HDA Intel
> Kernel modules: snd-hda-intel
> ==
> 01:07.0 Multimedia audio controller: Creative Labs SB0400 Audigy2 Value
> Subsystem: Creative Labs Unknown device 1001
> Control: I/O+ Mem- BusMaster+ SpecCycle- MemWINV- VGASnoop- ParErr- 
> Stepping- SERR- FastB2B- DisINTx-
> Status: Cap+ 66MHz- UDF- FastB2B+ ParErr- DEVSEL=medium >TAbort- 
> SERR-  Latency: 32 (500ns min, 5000ns max)
> Interrupt: pin A routed to IRQ 17
> Region 0: I/O ports at ac00 [size=64]
> Capabilities: [dc] Power Management version 2
> Flags: PMEClk- DSI+ D1+ D2+ AuxCurrent=0mA 
> PME(D0-,D1-,D2-,D3hot-,D3cold-)
> Status: D0 PME-Enable- DSel=0 DScale=0 PME-
> Kernel driver in use: EMU10K1_Audigy
> Kernel modules: snd-emu10k1
> ===
> 03:00.1 Audio device: ATI Technologies Inc Unknown device aa10
> Subsystem: Diamond Multimedia Systems Unknown device aa10
> Control: I/O+ Mem+ BusMaster+ SpecCycle- MemWINV- VGASnoop- ParErr- 
> Stepping- SERR- FastB2B- DisINTx-
> Status: Cap+ 66MHz- UDF- FastB2B- ParErr- DEVSEL=fast >TAbort- 
> SERR-  Latency: 0, Cache Line Size: 32 bytes
> Interrupt: pin B routed to IRQ 16
> Region 0: Memory at fddfc000 (64-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=16K]
> Capabilities: [50] Power Management version 3
> Flags: PMEClk- DSI- D1+ D2+ AuxCurrent=0mA 
> PME(D0-,D1-,D2-,D3hot-,D3cold-)
> Status: D0 PME-Enable- DSel=0 DScale=0 PME-
> Capabilities: [58] Express (v1) Legacy Endpoint, MSI 00
> DevCap: MaxPayload 128 bytes, PhantFunc 0, Latency L0s <4us, 
> L1 unlimited
> ExtTag+ AttnBtn- AttnInd- PwrInd- RBE+ FLReset-
> DevCtl: Report errors: Correctable- Non-Fatal- Fatal- 
> Unsupported-
> RlxdOrd+ ExtTag- PhantFunc- AuxPwr- NoSnoop+
> MaxPayload 128 bytes, MaxReadReq 128 bytes
> DevSta: CorrErr- UncorrErr- FatalErr- UnsuppReq- AuxPwr- 
> TransPend-
> LnkCap: Port #0, Speed 2.5GT/s, Width x16, ASPM L0s L1, 
> Latency L0 <64ns, L1 <1us
> ClockPM- Suprise- LLActRep- BwNot-
> LnkCtl: ASPM Disabled; RCB 64 bytes Disabled- Retrain- 
> CommClk+
> ExtSynch- ClockPM- AutWidDis- BWInt- AutBWInt-
> LnkSta: Speed 2.5GT/s, Width x16, TrErr- Train- SlotClk+ 
> DLActive- BWMgmt- ABWMgmt-
> Capabilities: [a0] Message Signalled Interrupts: Mask- 64bit+ 
> Queue=0/0 Enable-
> Address:   Data: 
> Capabilities: [100] Vendor Specific Information 
> Kernel driver in use: HDA Intel
> Kernel modules: snd-hda-intel
> ===
>
> And there is also a pcHDTV-3000 which has a connexant audio but its obviously 
> a mic level output, and since tvtime doesn't work on the video card 
> associated with the last device listed above, the point is moot till it does 
> work.
>
> The first device above I have not been able to get a peep out of, so I've 
> made 
> the second one, the A

[LAD] ASUS mobo NEW thread - started OT for another tread

[Ralf Mardorf]

In reply to
Subject:Re: [LAD] Audio vs ASUS M2N-SLI Deluxe mobo
Date:   Sat, 29 Nov 2008 08:55:17 -0500
From:   Gene Heskett
Organization:   
To: Ralf Mardorf
CC: linux-audio-dev lists.linuxaudio.org
References: <200811290046.51317.gene.heskett verizon.net>
<4930F02B.5030109 alice-dsl.net>


Hi Gene :)

before it gets too confusing, I'll isolate the ASUS mobo audio and ASUS
mobo MIDI issue.

I got another reply off-list about the MIDI issue. Here it is, including
my answer:
Subject:Re: [LAD] Audio vs ASUS mobo - MIDI
Date:   Sat, 29 Nov 2008 14:34:42 +0100
From:   Ralf Mardorf
To: 
References: 



wrote:
> On Sat, 2008-11-29 at 08:32 +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>
>   
>> If I try to use MIDI applications like Rosegarden, Qtractor and soft
>> synth like Qsynth (using an USB MIDI IO device and a Envy24 based sound
>> card) I only get crashes.
>> 
>
> I got that on kernel 2.6.26-rt when I upgraded from 2.6.24. Apparently
> the rt-patch is broken for midi on that one.
>
> What is your kernel?
>
> 
>   

*I changed the subject, so that this don't annoy the original thread, by
something that might be OT, if this will become something for the list,
but for the moment I agree, that off-list seems to be the better choice.*

Hi :)

no, it has nothing to do with the problems for real-time kernels ex
2.6.26. I tested Suse 11.0 with the distro's real-time kernels, not with
the Jengelh once. Suse 11.0 at the moment is 2.6.25 and I tested 64
Studio 2.1 with the default real-time kernel 2.6.21 and a self compiled
real-time kernel 2.6.24.

I know that the ASUS M2N-SLI Delux has another chipset than my ASUS
M2A-VM HDMI, but because both mobos are relatively new, there might be
something in common.

MIDI applications crashes without any useful messages for my ASUS M2A-VM
HDMI with an AMD BE-2350 CPU using Suse 11.0, 64 Studio 2.1 default
(Etch) and 64 Studio 2.1 upgraded to Lenny. Another user has a Gigabyte
ga-p35-ds3l with an Intel q6600 CPU and the same problems, he now runs
Windows for MIDI work, but started with 64 Studio, Arch and Sidux, he
also tested different kernels. His mobo is fine with XP, Cubase SX and
Halion, 100% stable. I don't have any Windows install for my computer,
so I don't have any information about this.

For my mobo Linux is stable for any thing else, but MIDI applications,
resp. when I try to run MIDI applications, often their audio clients,
resp. JACK fails.

I still hope it will be possible to solve the problem. I have the latest
BIOS version for my mobo. Until now I only tested 64-bit distros and
never a 32-bit version.

What mobo, CPU and distro do you use?

Thanks,
Ralf




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Re: [LAD] ASUS mobo NEW thread - started OT for another tread

[Ralf Mardorf]

Thomas Kuther wrote:
> I have similar problems with MIDI things on 2.6.26.6-rt with my Envy24
> based card.
>
> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.audio.users/51411/match=jackd+vs
>
> The kernel was guilty.
>   

Yes, it's well known, that kernel ex 2.6.26 aren't fine with the rt patch.



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Re: [LAD] ASUS mobo NEW thread - started OT for another tread

[Ralf Mardorf]

Gene Heskett wrote:
> device: default can't be opened for playback (Connection refused)
>   

Hi, I'm short in time and couldn't read the last two mails and I can't
read this mail too right now, but to your question which the "debvice:
default" is, it's hw:0, if you wish to see the sequence of your sound
devices, run QjackCtl. You can see the order of the devices, if you take
a look at the setup. If your Linux changes the numbers for the devices
with each boot, you need to give the advices consistent numbers, e.g.
for Debian based Linux by following http://www.64studio.com/faq_user.

So the new thread, is also the old thread :D, anyway, your problem seems
to be solvable :), while I seems to have less good luck :(.

Hth,
Ralf



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Re: [LAD] ASUS mobo NEW thread - started OT for another tread

[Ralf Mardorf]

> I just now rebooted to 2.6.28-rc6, and I still get this at the x start:
> ===
> Sound server informational message:
> Error while initializing the sound driver:
> device: default can't be opened for playback (Connection refused)
> The sound server will continue, using the null output device.
> 
> I don't know what device the 'default device' is, although a cat 
> of /proc/asound/cards returns this list:
>  0 [Audigy2]: Audigy2 - Audigy 2 Value [SB0400]
>   Audigy 2 Value [SB0400] (rev.0, serial:0x10011102) at 
> 0xac00, irq 17
>  1 [NVidia ]: HDA-Intel - HDA NVidia
>   HDA NVidia at 0xfe024000 irq 21
>  2 [HDMI   ]: HDA-Intel - HDA ATI HDMI
>   HDA ATI HDMI at 0xfddfc000 irq 16
>   

Oops, "cat /proc/asound/cards" is better than to run QjackCtl to get
this info. The Audigy2 is the default at the moment, but this might
change with the next startup for some distros. I guess hw:0 is "default"
for all distros.

> And I have this in /dev:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~]# ls -l /dev/a*
> crw-rw  1 root root 14, 14 2008-11-29 10:39 /dev/admmidi
> crw-rw+ 1 root root 14, 12 2008-11-29 10:39 /dev/adsp
> crw-rw+ 1 root root 14, 28 2008-11-29 10:39 /dev/adsp1
> crw-rw+ 1 root root 14, 13 2008-11-29 10:39 /dev/amidi
> crw-rw+ 1 root root 14,  4 2008-11-29 10:39 /dev/audio
> crw-rw+ 1 root root 14, 20 2008-11-29 10:39 /dev/audio1
> crw-rw  1 root root 10, 60 2008-11-29 10:39 /dev/autofs
>
> Here is /etc/alsa/pulse-default.conf:
> =
> # PulseAudio plugin configuration
>
> # Let's create a virtual device "pulse" for mixer and PCM
>
> pcm.pulse {
> type pulse
> }
>
> ctl.pulse {
> type pulse
> }
>
> # Let's make it the default!
>
> pcm.!default {
> type pulse
> }
>
> ctl.!default {
> type pulse
> }
> ===
>   

I don't know PulseAudio. For KDE e.g. I disable aRts. Why the hell do
people use something else, but ALSA and JACK? I recommend to use ALSA
and JACK only.

> Which gives me no clue as to what the 'default device' might be either.
> So here is /etc/alsa/alsa.conf:
> [snip]
>   

> and I had no idea it was that long. It does say card0 near the top, and if 
> that is in the order assigned in my modprobe.conf, and in the cat 
> of /proc/asound/cards then it is the audigy2 (emu10k1 driver)
>
> Who, or what is denying permissions as shown by the startup message above?
>
> Thanks folks.
>   

I'm still short in time. Is there a file /etc/modprobe.d/alsa-base for
your distro?

Cheers,
Ralf



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[LAD] Problems with compiling

[Ralf Mardorf]

Hi :)

I'm searching the following headers by http://www.rpmseek.com/index.html:

#include 
#include 
#include 

Does anybody know where I can find them for Suse 11.1 RC? RPM Seek now
is searching for more than 200 seconds ;).

I wish to have a howto on German, to make a audio workstation for Suse
11.1, that's why I started a thread for the release candidate on
English, but I failed with doing this.

I can't build a kernel for Suse, I once patched without trouble for 64
Studio 2.1.

Any help at
http://forums.opensuse.org/pre-release-beta/401422-enable-realtime-audio-midi-opensuse-11-1-rc.html#post1906146
is welcome.

Cheers,
Ralf



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Re: [LAD] Problems with compiling

[Ralf Mardorf]

Fred Gleason wrote:
> On Friday 12 December 2008 02:46:41 pm Arnold Krille wrote:
>   
>> I don't know how the package is called on suse,
>> 
>
> Fire up YaST, click 'Software Management', then select 'Patterns' in the 
> Filter control, scroll down to 'Development', and then check 'C/C++ 
> Development'.  Click 'Accept' and then let the system do its thing.
>
> Good luck.
>
> Cheers!

Thank you Arnold and Paul :)

thank you Fred :)

I never had trouble to compile jack_snapshot before, for any distro, by
the way, normally it's in the repositories for Suse. What you suggest to
do, is what I normally do, but YaST2 for the 11.1 RC crashed, when I
tried this before you suggested it :D. I have the GNU C and C++
compilers installed, I was able to make an RPM for a 2.6.24-rt kernel
(resp. it seems to be broken), I got some warnings, but the kernel was
patched and compiled, when I installed it, initrd was missing, while
mkinitrd is installed. When I tried to install the jack-devel package
for 0.116.1 by zypper, nothing was installed, because there was the jack
package installed and zypper tried to install the 0.109 jack-devel
package. I could install the 0.116 headers by YaST2. I guess the release
candidate is too broken. I better stay at 11.0 and 64 Studio, I'm a
Linux C/C++ noob, but I never had a problem with patching a kernel or
compile simple tools like jack_snapshot. Normally it's noob safe, made
for me :).

I'm not a version junkie, I tried to set a 11.1 RC audio and MIDI
workstation, to have a 11.1 stable version howto, for everybody with new
hardware, who needs the latest versions.

I guess I will give up going on with it and see if audio and Linux is
fine with jack 0.116.1 for Suse 11.0 and 64 Studio.

Thank you again
Ralf

PS @ Paul: I don't think that jackd causes problems for my audio Linux
and I also guess that I don't have wrong settings for my sound card.
Someone from the 64 Studio list has got the same mobo and he bought a
new one, because of troubles with Linux.



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Re: [LAD] Problems with compiling

[Ralf Mardorf]

At Linux-Club where I asked because I haven't that knowledge, they
laughed about me and they say, that there's a patch needed:

Code: Alles auswählen
> 
> |diff -Naur jack_snapshot-0.0.3-org/jack_snapshot.cc
> jack_snapshot-0.0.3/jack_snapshot.cc
> --- jack_snapshot-0.0.3-org/jack_snapshot.cc2005-10-12
> 18:14:51.0 +0200
> +++ jack_snapshot-0.0.3/jack_snapshot.cc2008-04-28
> 17:41:00.0 +0200
> @@ -8,6 +8,8 @@
> #include 
> #include 
> #include 
> +#include 
> +#include 
>
> int main(int argc, char *argv[]) {
>std::cout << "Jack connection snapshot [(C) 2004 - inf. Florian
> Schmidt]" << std::endl;

I compiled it for 64 Studio x86_64 without a patch, I only used the "normal" 
source to compile it.




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[LAD] JACK for openSUSE 11.0 x86_64

[Ralf Mardorf]

Hi :)

I have this problem too: http://ardour.org/node/2271

If I go back to the Suse 11.0 version before 0.116, it's 0.109, the
message changes from "jackd: symbol lookup error: jackd: undefined
symbol: clock_source" to "jackd: symbol lookup error: jackd: undefined
symbol: _jack_get_microseconds".

I tried to write with the German community (at Linux-Club Suse and
Packman community) about such issues, but they aren't interested in
their bugs and because they laugh about me, I'm not interested anymore
to report anything to them. Everything I tried to inform about, should
be wrong they say and laugh and there were a lot of bugs similar to that
one, for audio and MIDI realtime applications from the standard
repositories Oss, Non-Oss, Updates, Packman and VideoLAN. Also there are
often versions that aren't good for professional work.

I removed the jack package by YaST2 and then ...
suse11:/usr/lib # rm libjack*
suse11:/usr/lib64 # rm libjack*

After I installed jack again, I got "jackd: error while loading shared
libraries: libjackserver.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such
file or directory".

Does anybody know a Suse community that is interested to solve those things?

I'm fine with the Debian 64 Studio audio community. Isn't there such a
friendly community for Suse (not JAD)?

For some reasons I like to use Debian 64 Studio and Suse, but Suse often
is a pain in the arse, because of a narrow views having community.

Do I need to compile jack myself for Suse 11.0? Before I upgraded jack,
I don't get any error messages.

Cheers,
Ralf

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Re: [LAD] [Jack-Devel] JACK for openSUSE 11.0 x86_64

[Ralf Mardorf]

torb...@gmx.de wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 08:29:57PM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>   
>> Hi :)
>>
>>
>> I removed the jack package by YaST2 and then ...
>> suse11:/usr/lib # rm libjack*
>> suse11:/usr/lib64 # rm libjack*
>>
>> After I installed jack again, I got "jackd: error while loading shared
>> libraries: libjackserver.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such
>> file or directory".
>> 
>
> you need to run ldconfig as root.
>   

Thank you Torben :)

Jussi Laako wrote:
> Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>   
>> Hi :)
>>
>> I have this problem too: http://ardour.org/node/2271
>>
>> If I go back to the Suse 11.0 version before 0.116, it's 0.109, the
>> 
>
> I have precompiled packages for SuSE 11 which work fine for me without
> problems:
> http://www.sonarnerd.net/suse11/
>   

Thank you Jussi :)

I haven't tested both hints, but I'll test them ASAP.



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Re: [LAD] [Jack-Devel] JACK for openSUSE 11.0 x86_64

[Ralf Mardorf]

Hi :)

I added what I did below chronologically arranged. The first try failed
because of Packman libs. The second try failed because of less Packman
libs too.
I don't know what to install and then how to use ldconfig. When I last
tried to remove the whole studio in the box, by removing or first
install and then removing jack by zypper it failed.

I installed jack by YaST2 from repo-oss.

I don't know what to do. I can't install or remove jack, all because I
upgraded from the repo-oss version 0.109 to the Packman's version 0.116.

Cheers,
Ralf



FIRST TRY
PACKMAN PROBLEM

spinymo...@suse11:/usr/src/packages/RPMS/x86_64> wget
http://www.sonarnerd.net/suse11/jack-0.116.1-16.jl.suse.x86_64.rpm

suse11:/usr/src/packages/RPMS/x86_64 # rpm -iv
jack-0.116.1-16.jl.suse.x86_64.rpm
error: Failed dependencies:
libcap is needed by jack-0.116.1-16.jl.suse.x86_64

suse11:/usr/src/packages/RPMS/x86_64 # zypper install libcap
Downloading repository 'Packman Repository' metadata [done]
Building repository 'Packman Repository' cache [done]
Reading installed packages...

The following NEW package is going to be installed:
  libcap1


Overall download size: 8.0 K. After the operation, additional 16.0 K
will be used.
Continue? [YES/no]: y
Downloading package libcap1-1.10-10.1.x86_64 (1/1), 8.0 K (16.0 K unpacked)
Downloading: libcap1-1.10-10.1.x86_64.rpm [done]
Installing: libcap1-1.10-10.1 [done]

suse11:/usr/src/packages/RPMS/x86_64 # rpm -iv
jack-0.116.1-16.jl.suse.x86_64.rpm
Preparing packages for installation...
file /usr/lib64/libjackserver.so.0 from install of
jack-0.116.1-16.jl.suse conflicts with file from package
libjackserver2-0-1.9.0-0.pm.4
file /usr/lib64/libjack.so.0 from install of
jack-0.116.1-16.jl.suse conflicts with file from package
libjack2-0-1.9.0-0.pm.4
file /usr/bin/jack_freewheel from install of
jack-0.116.1-16.jl.suse conflicts with file from package jack2-1.9.0-0.pm.4
file /usr/bin/jack_load from install of jack-0.116.1-16.jl.suse
conflicts with file from package jack2-1.9.0-0.pm.4
file /usr/bin/jack_transport from install of
jack-0.116.1-16.jl.suse conflicts with file from package jack2-1.9.0-0.pm.4
file /usr/bin/jack_unload from install of
jack-0.116.1-16.jl.suse conflicts with file from package jack2-1.9.0-0.pm.4
file /usr/bin/jackd from install of jack-0.116.1-16.jl.suse
conflicts with file from package jack2-1.9.0-0.pm.4
file /usr/lib64/jack/inprocess.so from install of
jack-0.116.1-16.jl.suse conflicts with file from package jack2-1.9.0-0.pm.4
file /usr/lib64/jack/jack_alsa.so from install of
jack-0.116.1-16.jl.suse conflicts with file from package jack2-1.9.0-0.pm.4
file /usr/lib64/jack/jack_dummy.so from install of
jack-0.116.1-16.jl.suse conflicts with file from package jack2-1.9.0-0.pm.4
file /usr/lib64/jack/jack_net.so from install of
jack-0.116.1-16.jl.suse conflicts with file from package jack2-1.9.0-0.pm.4
file /usr/bin/alsa_in from install of jack-0.116.1-16.jl.suse
conflicts with file from package jack-0.116.1-0.pm.1
file /usr/bin/alsa_out from install of jack-0.116.1-16.jl.suse
conflicts with file from package jack-0.116.1-0.pm.1
file /usr/bin/jack_freewheel from install of
jack-0.116.1-16.jl.suse conflicts with file from package jack-0.116.1-0.pm.1
file /usr/bin/jack_load from install of jack-0.116.1-16.jl.suse
conflicts with file from package jack-0.116.1-0.pm.1
file /usr/bin/jack_netsource from install of
jack-0.116.1-16.jl.suse conflicts with file from package jack-0.116.1-0.pm.1
file /usr/bin/jack_transport from install of
jack-0.116.1-16.jl.suse conflicts with file from package jack-0.116.1-0.pm.1
file /usr/bin/jack_unload from install of
jack-0.116.1-16.jl.suse conflicts with file from package jack-0.116.1-0.pm.1
file /usr/bin/jackd from install of jack-0.116.1-16.jl.suse
conflicts with file from package jack-0.116.1-0.pm.1
file /usr/lib64/jack/inprocess.so from install of
jack-0.116.1-16.jl.suse conflicts with file from package jack-0.116.1-0.pm.1
file /usr/lib64/jack/intime.so from install of
jack-0.116.1-16.jl.suse conflicts with file from package jack-0.116.1-0.pm.1
file /usr/lib64/jack/jack_alsa.so from install of
jack-0.116.1-16.jl.suse conflicts with file from package jack-0.116.1-0.pm.1
file /usr/lib64/jack/jack_dummy.so from install of
jack-0.116.1-16.jl.suse conflicts with file from package jack-0.116.1-0.pm.1
file /usr/lib64/jack/jack_net.so from install of
jack-0.116.1-16.jl.suse conflicts with file from package ja

Re: [LAD] [Jack-Devel] JACK for openSUSE 11.0 x86_64

[Ralf Mardorf]

oc2...@arcor.de wrote:
> you can't do it this way ... 
>
> first note: rpm -i is totally wrong here., you don't want to install you want 
> to do a upgrade or downgrade.
>
> second note: you need a package-manager to resolve this problem :)
>
> explantation:
> jack and jack2 are providing the same "functionality", so you have to make a 
> choice which package-family you want to use.
> possibility a) install jack, libjack0 and libjackserver0 ==> 0.116.x
> possibility b) install jack2, libjack2-0 and libjackserver2-0 ==> 1.9.x
> Those two package-families are mutual exclusive.
>
> According the openSuSE shared library policy all shared libs are splitted out 
> in seperate packages with the so-name in the package name.
>
> if you pull in the mentioned package from http://www.sonarnerd.net/suse11/
> you need additional steps, as these package doesn't follow the original SuSE 
> packages.

I first had a 0.109 install from the repo-oss. I upgraded by YaST2 to
0.116 from the Packman Repo and got the same as a lot of people got, see
http://ardour.org/node/2271.

Some steps followed, see

* [LAD] JACK for openSUSE 11.0 x86_64
  <http://lalists.stanford.edu/lad/2008/12/0047.html> /Ralf
  Mardorf/ /(Sun Dec 14 2008 - 21:29:57 EET)/
  o Re: [LAD] JACK for openSUSE 11.0 x86_64
<http://lalists.stanford.edu/lad/2008/12/0048.html> 
/torb...@email-addr-hidden/ /(Sun
Dec 14 2008 - 21:37:10 EET)/
+ Re: [LAD] [Jack-Devel] JACK for openSUSE 11.0 x86_64
  <http://lalists.stanford.edu/lad/2008/12/0049.html> /Ralf
  Mardorf/ /(Mon Dec 15 2008 - 02:23:07 EET)/

There seems to be a bug for the jack Packman's package since my last
upgrade, that was done with OSS, NON-OSS, UPDATES, PACKMAN and yes, also
VIDEOLAN. I did the upgrade, resp. "update all packeges if newer version
is available" (I'm writing from Lenny, but I guess you know which option
I'm talking about, I don't know the exact words by heard) at 12-14-2008
18:36.

After I've done some installs and deinstalls, I tried to install the
RPM, it might be, that 0.116 was installed again, when I run RPM the
first time, to install Jussi's version, anyway, Suse was broken before.

> It contains the binaries and the libs without obsoleting/requiring 
> other packages. And it need libcapX as it is configured to use libcap. The 
> SuSE packages and the packman packages don't use this option.
> This package can only be installed with a 
> rpm -e --nodeps  (get a list with rpm -qa | grep 
> jack) and the install this special jack package with rpm -Uhv ...
>   

To avoid a misunderstanding. This is for Jussi's package, am I right?

What wrong with the Packman's package? Is there a way to use this?

>> I installed jack by YaST2 from repo-oss.
>>
>> I don't know what to do. I can't install or remove jack, all because I
>> upgraded from the repo-oss version 0.109 to the Packman's version 0.116.
>> 
> btw, you are the only person with install problems with the packman packages.

He? If you will ignore the links to Ardour and google search,than I'm
the only one. Will you go on with the Linux-Club bashes?

> I think I know the reason know, please use your package-manager to 
> install/deinstall/upgrade your packages. And always refresh your 
> package-cache before doing such operations.
>   

That has broken Suse, read the mails.

> If you still have problems to install the packman packages, post your 
> problems 
> to our mailing list and or cc me (I've packaged those packages for packman)
> http://lists.links2linux.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/packman
>   

Why, you always ignored what I was writing. You can read all messages
here in the LAD mailing list archive.

Cheers,
Ralf



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Re: [LAD] [Jack-Devel] JACK for openSUSE 11.0 x86_64

[Ralf Mardorf]

>
>>>
>>>   
>> btw, you are the only person with install problems with the packman packages.
>> 
>
> He? If you will ignore the links to Ardour and google search,than I'm
> the only one. Will you go on with the Linux-Club bashes?
>   

Okay, the Ardour link might be about a svn version, but the error
message and versions are the same. I can't say which mirror I used
without rebooting, resp. if you can tell me where the script is, where I
can find the used Packman mirror, I can tell you which mirror was used
as source, the Suse partition is mounted by Lenny.



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Re: [LAD] [Jack-Devel] JACK for openSUSE 11.0 x86_64

[Ralf Mardorf]

If you are interested in solving what's going wrong Oc2pus, here is the
calumet.

A resume:

I booted Suse 11.0

Launched YaST2, Install Software and upgraded all packages

jackd 0.109 from OSS was replaced by jackd 0.116 from a PACKMAN-mirror

Right after this, jackd was broken. Suse 11.0 is a clean install, there
might be some LADSPA self compiled and definitive QjackCtl is self
compiled, nothing else should be from any other source, but OSS,
NON-OSS, UPDATES, PACKMAN and VIDEOLAN.

YaST2 says that all dependencies are fine.



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[LAD] Just a test

[Ralf Mardorf]

Sorry to the lists, please ignore this mail, it's a test if my mails
come through the list.

@ Oc2pus:

That's strange. I'm member at jack-dev list. I haven't written to
Packman, because of the troubles we had at Linux-Club.

Maybe mirroring failed for the server I have jackd from. I can't change
to Suse right now. If you can write me were the script is, with the
information for the YaST2 and zypper servers, I can take a look from my
Lenny and than we should first diff if the package is equal to that of
another server.

The only other thing I can imagine is, that VideoLAN might cause a
conflict, even if YaST2 says that the dependencies aren't inconsistent.


 Original Message 
Subject:Re: [LAD] [Jack-Devel] JACK for openSUSE 11.0 x86_64
Date:   Mon, 15 Dec 2008 18:52:14 +0100
From:   oc2...@arcor.de
To: Ralf Mardorf 
References: <494681db.6030...@alice-dsl.net>
<200812151757.17264.oc2...@arcor.de> <49469359.9070...@alice-dsl.net>



Am Montag, 15. Dezember 2008 schrieb:
> oc2...@arcor.de wrote:
> > you can't do it this way ...
> >

> > If you still have problems to install the packman packages, post your
> > problems to our mailing list and or cc me (I've packaged those packages
> > for packman) http://lists.links2linux.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/packman
>
> Why, you always ignored what I was writing. You can read all messages
> here in the LAD mailing list archive.

Simple reason: because I won't subscribe to all available mailing-lists for 
every package I maintain ...

and the jack-devel list answers me for every post:
Your mail to 'Jack-Devel' with the subject

Re: [LAD] [Jack-Devel]  JACK for openSUSE 11.0 x86_64

Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval.

The reason it is being held:
Post by non-member to a members-only list

And I can't remember to ignore postings on the packman mailing-list. We try to 
do our best and need the feedback and the reporting of problems and a error 
is fixed as quick as possible.

> Cheers,
> Ralf

have fun
oc2pus




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Re: [LAD] [Jack-Devel] JACK for openSUSE 11.0 x86_64

[Ralf Mardorf]

oc2...@arcor.de wrote:
> Am Montag, 15. Dezember 2008 schrieb Ralf Mardorf:
>   
>> If you are interested in solving what's going wrong Oc2pus, here is the
>> calumet.
>>
>> A resume:
>>
>> I booted Suse 11.0
>>
>> Launched YaST2, Install Software and upgraded all packages
>>
>> jackd 0.109 from OSS was replaced by jackd 0.116 from a PACKMAN-mirror
>>
>> Right after this, jackd was broken. Suse 11.0 is a clean install, there
>> might be some LADSPA self compiled and definitive QjackCtl is self
>> compiled, nothing else should be from any other source, but OSS,
>> NON-OSS, UPDATES, PACKMAN and VIDEOLAN.
>>
>> YaST2 says that all dependencies are fine.
>> 
>
> please post the output of 
> rpm -qa | grep jack
>
> have fun
> oc2pus
>   

I guess one archives mailing list at this point is enough for this, we
should it sent only to LAD or jack-dev or go on off-list.

Oops, I just rebooted from Lenny to Suse and back to Lenny.

Now I have to go shopping, I'll boot Suse and run rpm -qa | grep jack
when I'm back, this might take one hour or more.

Just to rule out I did this stupid check:

This is the mirror YaST2 used: http://ftp.skynet.be/pub/packman/suse/11.0/

Today it's equal to another server, maybe it was also equal, when I run
the upgrade.

spinymo...@suse11:~> mkdir diff
spinymo...@suse11:~> wget
http://ftp.skynet.be/pub/packman/suse/11.0/x86_64/jack-0.116.1-0.pm.1.x86_64.rpm
--2008-12-15 19:26:13-- 
http://ftp.skynet.be/pub/packman/suse/11.0/x86_64/jack-0.116.1-0.pm.1.x86_64.rpm
Resolving ftp.skynet.be... 195.238.1.7
Connecting to ftp.skynet.be|195.238.1.7|:80... connected.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 200 OK
Length: 112723 (110K) [application/x-redhat-package-manager]
Saving to: `jack-0.116.1-0.pm.1.x86_64.rpm'

100%[=>]
112,723  428K/s   in 0.3s

2008-12-15 19:26:13 (428 KB/s) - `jack-0.116.1-0.pm.1.x86_64.rpm' saved
[112723/112723]

spinymo...@suse11:~> cd diff
spinymo...@suse11:~/diff> wget
http://packman.jacobs-university.de/suse/11.0/x86_64/jack-0.116.1-0.pm.1.x86_64.rpm
--2008-12-15 19:26:44-- 
http://packman.jacobs-university.de/suse/11.0/x86_64/jack-0.116.1-0.pm.1.x86_64.rpm
Resolving packman.jacobs-university.de... 212.201.44.24
Connecting to packman.jacobs-university.de|212.201.44.24|:80... connected.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 200 OK
Length: 112723 (110K) [application/x-rpm]
Saving to: `jack-0.116.1-0.pm.1.x86_64.rpm'

100%[=>]
112,723  128K/s   in 0.9s

2008-12-15 19:26:45 (128 KB/s) - `jack-0.116.1-0.pm.1.x86_64.rpm' saved
[112723/112723]

spinymo...@suse11:~/diff> diff jack-0.116.1-0.pm.1.x86_64.rpm
~/jack-0.116.1-0.pm.1.x86_64.rpm
spinymo...@suse11:~/diff> ce ..
bash: ce: command not found
spinymo...@suse11:~/diff> cd..
spinymo...@suse11:~> rm -r diff jack-0.116.1-0.pm.1.x86_64.rpm
spinymo...@suse11:~>



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Re: [LAD] JACK for openSUSE 11.0 x86_64

[Ralf Mardorf]

Hi Oc2pus :)

here is the information I got by rpm, I also checked jack only and
dependencies by YaST2 and added the stuff that's unknown by the package
management and including jack in it's name.

oc2...@arcor.de wrote:
> please post the output of 
> rpm -qa | grep jack
>   

suse11:/home/spymo # yast2 --install

System dependencies verify OK.
All package dependencies are OK.
jack 0.109.2-36.1-x86_64 is isntalled
jack-32bit isn't installed
jack2 1.9.0-0.pm.4-x86_64 is installed
 
suse11:/home/spymo # exit
spinymo...@suse11:~> rpm -qa | grep jack
jack_mixer-6-0.pm.3
jackmeter-0.3-0.pm.1
libjack2-0-1.9.0-0.pm.4
jack_snapshot-0.0.3-0.pm.1
jackbeat-0.6.3-0.pm.1
jacktube-0.20-0.pm.1
libjackserver2-0-1.9.0-0.pm.4
jackEQ-0.4.1-0.pm.2
jackmixdesk-0.3-112.pm.svn20070530
jack_capture-0.9.31-0.pm.1
jack-scope-20080627-0.pm.1
libjack-devel-0.116.1-0.pm.1
jackmix-0.4-0.pm.1
qjacklam-0.3-0.pm.2
jack-0.109.2-36.1
jackmixdesk-gui-0.3-112.pm.svn20070530
jackmaster-0.0.1-0.pm.1
jack-rack-1.4.7-68.1
libjack0-32bit-0.109.2-36.1
jack2-1.9.0-0.pm.4

spinymo...@suse11:~> ls -l  /usr/local/bin
total 1496
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root  246832 2008-10-13 22:55 non-daw
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root  191408 2008-10-13 22:59 non-sequencer
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 1074368 2008-10-12 02:05 qjackctl

Self compiled and make install instead of checkinstall, because
checkinstall doesn't work, since I have 64-bit hardware. Qjackctl seems
to be cvs version 0.3.3.6 and because of the make install, it's not
known by the packet management.

The latest rsync of Suse 11.0 is from ...
spinymo...@suse11:~> ls -l /mnt/backup_space_i
[snip]
drwxr-xr-x 21 spinymouse  1000 4096 2008-08-19 10:27 tmp_suse11.0-19-08-2008
... so I would prefer to get it repaired, instead of restoring it from
that backup.

Cheers,
Ralf



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Re: [LAD] JACK for openSUSE 11.0 x86_64

[Ralf Mardorf]

oc2...@arcor.de wrote:
> Am Montag, 15. Dezember 2008 schrieb Ralf Mardorf:
>   
>> Hi Oc2pus :)
>>
>> here is the information I got by rpm, I also checked jack only and
>> dependencies by YaST2 and added the stuff that's unknown by the package
>> management and including jack in it's name.
>>
>> oc2...@arcor.de wrote:
>> 
>>> please post the output of
>>> rpm -qa | grep jack
>>>   
>
>   
>> spinymo...@suse11:~> rpm -qa | grep jack
>> jackmeter-0.3-0.pm.1
>> libjack2-0-1.9.0-0.pm.4   <
>> jack_snapshot-0.0.3-0.pm.1
>> jackbeat-0.6.3-0.pm.1
>> jacktube-0.20-0.pm.1
>> libjackserver2-0-1.9.0-0.pm.4 <=
>> jackEQ-0.4.1-0.pm.2
>> jackmixdesk-0.3-112.pm.svn20070530
>> jack_capture-0.9.31-0.pm.1
>> jack-scope-20080627-0.pm.1
>> libjack-devel-0.116.1-0.pm.1   <==
>> jackmix-0.4-0.pm.1
>> qjacklam-0.3-0.pm.2
>> jack-0.109.2-36.1 <===  NOT A PACKMAN PACKAGE
>> jackmixdesk-gui-0.3-112.pm.svn20070530
>> jackmaster-0.0.1-0.pm.1
>> jack-rack-1.4.7-68.1
>> libjack0-32bit-0.109.2-36.1 <= 
>> jack2-1.9.0-0.pm.4   <=== 
>> 
>
> I marked them with <
>
> your system is borked, yo have a total mixture of jack2 and jack
> even 32bit variants in your system...
>
> this can't work,never ever :)
>
> you need 
> jack2, libjackserver2-0 libjack2-0
> OR
> jack, libjackserver0, libjackserver0
>
> don't know how you managed to reach this installation mixture. 
>
> But if it helps you, you can continue  to write in all your known  
> communities: 
> 
> its ALWAYS the packager's mistake!  and those packages are totally borked...
> 
>
> A tip from me:  simply try gentoo, than YOU are the master of installing and 
> compiling things. And if things won't work as expected, grab your own nose 
> and yell around :)
>
>   
>> Cheers,
>> Ralf
>> 

I just wrote about a bug, I never said that it's a sin to produce bugs,
I produce bugs myself, but here I just installed and removed jack
packages by YaST and at a later point by zypper. Because you guess that
you are god, I won't report it to you. Sorry, my mental disorders
differs to the once you have got. Please, don't care about my mails and
postings. It's wasting time, we don't have enough in common to
correspond about those things. I never installed jack2 by myself, it was
installed as a dependency to jack. I can try to force, to remove jack2,
libjackserver2-0, libjack2-0 and to install jack, libjackserver0, but
the problem seems to be, that YaST and zypper aren't able to do this any
more. I'm fine with Suse and Debian, but I'm not fine with people like
you. I don't understand what's the problem with this. You don't need to
write me your opinions, if you think that I'm faking bugs, let the
people know that I'm a liar. I distinctly declared that I won't report
bugs to some people. I like to help people that are using Suse and I
like to get help. Maybe you should engage the services of Gentoo, if you
don't like Suse users. It all started with 2 bugs I reported by details
at Linux-Club, than I had to declare what my needs about a tool like
Linux are. I stoped this conversation at Linux-Club and you are
stalking. YOU DON'T NEED TO WRITE TO ME! I don't wish to have a
discussion about different Linux-World-Views. And if you answer people,
not only here, please read what they have written. Yes, as I've written,
jack-0.109.2-36.1 is from repo-oss, maybe because I tried to downgrade
to this package, perhaps I have written that. Will it be fine for you if
I declare, that I'm totally wrong and you are god?

I JUST NEED HELP, BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW SOME THINGS, I DON'T NEED
ACIDNESS! You are a stalker, don't follow me.



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Re: [LAD] JACK for openSUSE 11.0 x86_64

[Ralf Mardorf]

Oc2pus, I don't will write any thing more about this issue, you are free
to write books about it, but I won't reply to stuff that has nothing to
do with my request, if it's in that German forum style.



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Re: [LAD] JACK for openSUSE 11.0 x86_64

[Ralf Mardorf]

Arnold Krille wrote:
> You do have two different versions installed. This _is_ a messed up system. 
> Why don't you try 
> to clean that up

I need to find out how to do this. After I upgraded my Suse 11.0 from
jackd 0.109 to jackd 0.116 by using YaST2, it was broken. Maybe not the
way it's broken now, but jackd started with an error, then I downgraded
to 0.109, the version that was fine before, but it didn't repair the
system, jackd still was broken.

When I'm writing of downgrading, I mean first to remove by YaST2 and
then to install, but YaST seems to keep some libs. I tried what was
posted at the Ardour page, rm some libs* using a terminal, but until now
it's still broken. I can restore a backup by rsync, but I would like to
repair it.

The discussion about knowledge is invalid, because it doesn't has to do
with the problem and just is guessed and it's a typical German problem.



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Re: [LAD] [Jack-Devel] JACK for openSUSE 11.0 x86_64

[Ralf Mardorf]

torb...@gmx.de wrote:
> just install a self built source OVER the stuff from the package.
> and then run ldconfig as root.
>
> there is no "i dont know how to use ldconfig"
> it just does its thing. you dont need to give it options,
> or interact with it. you just need to start it.
>
> after it ran you can use the installed jackd.
>
> i am really sorry, but you are making it very hard to help you.
>   

Thank You :)

I hope this will help.

> random up and downgrading, and mixing several repos is very likely
> to break your system.
>   

It broke by an upgrade from repo-oss 0.109 to Packman 0.116, when it was
broken I tried to downgrade and then I removed libs like it was written
on the Ardour homepage and after that I tried to install Jussi's RPM,
but at the beginning I didn't mix anything. It's a pure OSS, NON-OSS,
UPDATES, PACKMAN and VIDEOLAN Suse with 3 or 4 self compiled
applications, I'm not mixing anything randomly for this install. Okay, I
might not use VIDEOLAN, but that is the only critical repository.

Cheers,
Ralf



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Re: [LAD] JACK for openSUSE 11.0 x86_64

[Ralf Mardorf]

torb...@gmx.de wrote:
> YOU broke your system.
>   

By doing what? I did an upgrade from 0.109 to 0.116 by YaST, maybe it
wasn't the package, but it also wasn't me. I just clicked to upgrade it
from the repo-oss to the Packman version, from that point on it was
broken. I might have done wrong things after that, because I read stuff
from the web, e.g. the Ardour link. If I don't have knowledge I have to
read and to ask, I just reported and asked, and get acidness.

> just remove the offending packages.
> read the man page of rpm and remove them.
> i guess you need the force option

Okay, I'll resume:

1. RPM force option to remove the offending Packages
2. install from the source (or try Packman again or try Jussi's RPM +
dependency, all should work)
3. run ldconfig



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Re: [LAD] JACK for openSUSE 11.0 x86_64

[Ralf Mardorf]

Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>> just remove the offending packages.
>> read the man page of rpm and remove them.
>> i guess you need the force option
>> 
>
> Okay, I'll resume:
>
> 1. RPM force option to remove the offending Packages
> 2. install from the source (or try Packman again or try Jussi's RPM +
> dependency, all should work)
> 3. run ldconfig
>   

While I was tired, I tried to install jack, okay, --force seems to be
the wrong option and I've forgotten to run ldconfig, see terminal_1.txt.

Then I tried to erase the jack2 stuff, but everything depends to it, I
removed the jack stuff instead, because there were no dependency
conflicts. Than I --replaced jack2, run ldconfig, but nothing changed,
see terminal_2.txt and ignore the OT statements, they are remarks for me.

Today I might not be able to spend time in Suse Linux. I've to work.
I'll take look at man rpm and will search the net ASAP.
suse11:~ # rpm -qa | grep jack
jack_mixer-6-0.pm.3
jackmeter-0.3-0.pm.1
libjack2-0-1.9.0-0.pm.4
jack_snapshot-0.0.3-0.pm.1
jackbeat-0.6.3-0.pm.1
jacktube-0.20-0.pm.1
libjackserver2-0-1.9.0-0.pm.4
jackEQ-0.4.1-0.pm.2
jackmixdesk-0.3-112.pm.svn20070530
jack_capture-0.9.31-0.pm.1
jack-scope-20080627-0.pm.1
libjack-devel-0.116.1-0.pm.1
jackmix-0.4-0.pm.1
qjacklam-0.3-0.pm.2
jack-0.109.2-36.1
jackmixdesk-gui-0.3-112.pm.svn20070530
jackmaster-0.0.1-0.pm.1
jack-rack-1.4.7-68.1
libjack0-32bit-0.109.2-36.1
jack2-1.9.0-0.pm.4
suse11:~ # rpm --test -ivh --force 
http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/11.0/repo/oss/suse/x86_64/jack-0.109.2-36.1.x86_64.rpm
Retrieving 
http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/11.0/repo/oss/suse/x86_64/jack-0.109.2-36.1.x86_64.rpm
Preparing...### [100%]
suse11:~ # jackd --help
jackd: error while loading shared libraries: libjack.so.0: cannot open shared 
object file: No such file or directory
suse11:~ # rpm -ivh --force 
http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/11.0/repo/oss/suse/x86_64/jack-0.109.2-36.1.x86_64.rpm
Retrieving 
http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/11.0/repo/oss/suse/x86_64/jack-0.109.2-36.1.x86_64.rpm
Preparing...### [100%]
   1:jack   ### [100%]
suse11:~ # jackd --help
jackd: error while loading shared libraries: libjack.so.0: cannot open shared 
object file: No such file or directory
suse11:~ # rpm -qa | grep jack
jack_mixer-6-0.pm.3
jackmeter-0.3-0.pm.1
libjack2-0-1.9.0-0.pm.4
jack_snapshot-0.0.3-0.pm.1
jackbeat-0.6.3-0.pm.1
jacktube-0.20-0.pm.1
libjackserver2-0-1.9.0-0.pm.4
jack-0.109.2-36.1
jackEQ-0.4.1-0.pm.2
jackmixdesk-0.3-112.pm.svn20070530
jack_capture-0.9.31-0.pm.1
jack-scope-20080627-0.pm.1
libjack-devel-0.116.1-0.pm.1
jackmix-0.4-0.pm.1
qjacklam-0.3-0.pm.2
jackmixdesk-gui-0.3-112.pm.svn20070530
jackmaster-0.0.1-0.pm.1
jack-rack-1.4.7-68.1
libjack0-32bit-0.109.2-36.1
jack2-1.9.0-0.pm.4I guess checkinstall sometimes worked for my 64bit hardware too, resp. I can't 
remember how I build this package, maybe there was another automation, that 
build the RPM: /usr/src/packages/RPMS/x86_64/wineasio-x-1.x86_64.rpm

wineasio - wineasio-x suse11.0 spinymouse 5 Aug 2008
Version: x-1
Project Page: 
wineasio-x suse11.0 spinymouse 5 Aug 2008

Anyway, there are some more applications I compiled, but I don't need them and 
they shouldn't be part of the problem.

suse11:~ # rpm --test -ev jack-0.109.2-36.1 libjack0-32bit-0.109.2-36.1 
libjack-devel-0.116.1-0.pm.1
error: Failed dependencies:
jack-devel is needed by (installed) arts-devel-1.5.9-33.1.x86_64
suse11:~ # rpm --test -ev jack-0.109.2-36.1 libjack0-32bit-0.109.2-36.1 
libjack-devel-0.116.1-0.pm.1 arts-devel-1.5.9-33.1.x86_64
error: Failed dependencies:
arts-devel is needed by (installed) kdelibs3-devel-3.5.9-49.1.x86_64
suse11:~ # rpm --test -ev jack-0.109.2-36.1 libjack0-32bit-0.109.2-36.1 
libjack-devel-0.116.1-0.pm.1 arts-devel-1.5.9-33.1.x86_64 
kdelibs3-devel-3.5.9-49.1.x86_64
suse11:~ # rpm -ev jack-0.109.2-36.1 libjack0-32bit-0.109.2-36.1 
libjack-devel-0.116.1-0.pm.1 arts-devel-1.5.9-33.1.x86_64 
kdelibs3-devel-3.5.9-49.1.x86_64

I don't need the devel packages, but I need jack. I first will try to force to 
get jack2 by the replace options.

suse11:~ # rpm --test --replacefiles --replacepkgs -ivh 
http://ftp.skynet.be/pub/packman/suse/11.0/x86_64/jack2-1.9.0-0.pm.4.x86_64.rpm
Retrieving 
http://ftp.skynet.be/pub/packman/suse/11.0/x86_64/jack2-1.9.0-0.pm.4.x86_64.rpm
warning: /var/tmp/rpm-xfer.wajmN8: Header V3 DSA signature: NOKEY, key ID 
9a795806
Preparing...### [100%]
suse11:~ # rpm --replacefiles --replacepkgs -ivh 
http://ftp.skynet.be/pub/packman/suse/11.0/x86_64/jack2-1.9.0-0.pm.4.x86_64.rpm
Retrieving 
http://ftp.skynet.be/pub/packman/suse/11.0/x86_64/jack2-1.9.0-0.pm.4.x

Re: [LAD] JACK for openSUSE 11.0 x86_64

[Ralf Mardorf]

What I'm thinking of, isn't to erase any package, but I hope I used the
replace option not correct and that it will be possible to replace jack2
libs by jack libs, or if I like to get jack2 installed correctly, this
hopefully will also be fine, if I know how to use the replace options in
the right way. And I won't forget to run ldconfig.



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Re: [LAD] [Jack-Devel] JACK for openSUSE 11.0 x86_64

[Ralf Mardorf]

Hi Oc2pus :)

I'm sorry that I boiled over.

> Am Dienstag, 16. Dezember 2008 schrieb torb...@gmx.de:
> 
>
>   
>> just install a self built source OVER the stuff from the package.
>> and then run ldconfig as root.
>> 
> but use ./configure --prefix=/usr in the configure step !
>
> otherwise your installation will be installed in /usr/local instead of /usr 
> and a new round of problems will start.
>   

The Release date for openSUSE 11.1 still is the 12-18-2008. If I will
have the time, I'll try to fix my 11.0, just to learn what to do, if
something like that happens, but I decided to delete my 11.0, the 11.0
backup the and the 11.1 RC and to install the 11.1. I only will keep the
/homes of 11.0 and 11.1 RC. I guess I can use he /home of 11.1 RC for my
11.1 without trouble.

I'm not sure if I'll use the 64bit version again. There is a kernel vs
hardware issue for 64bit hardware (for any distro). Probably it won't
help to run 32bit on 64bit hardware, but nobody seems to know this.

It seems to be that (what for some people means really) stable for 64bit
hardware needs realtime kernels 2.6.21 and 2.6.22, while for 32bit
hardware even kernel 2.6.26 now might be fine.

Cheers,
Ralf



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Re: [LAD] JACK for openSUSE 11.0 x86_64

[Ralf Mardorf]

oc2...@arcor.de wrote:
> you need rpm -e --nodeps  perhaps additionally the 
> option --allmatches if packages are installed twice.
>
> than a package is removed and you have a temporary inconsitent system, but if 
> you install immediately the other packages all will be fine
>   

Thanx, I got this information from Toni too, this should do the trick.



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Re: [LAD] JACK for openSUSE 11.0 x86_64

[Ralf Mardorf]

Paul Davis wrote:
> On Tue, 2008-12-16 at 03:12 +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>   
>> . If I don't have knowledge I have to
>> read and to ask, I just reported and asked, and get acidness.
>> 
>
> no, thats not the issue. i think you don't understand that we (JACK)
> developers see these issues reported day after day after day, not just
> by you but by other people. they are all issues that, for the most part,
> we are powerless to affect. the issues are caused/created/affected by
> the actions of distribution packagers and can only be solved by them.
>
> it is incredibly frustrating watching user after user after user grapple
> with stupid system configuration problems that we did not create just to
> try to get JACK to run. whether its the complete lack of any way to get
> real time scheduling to work, or the wrong version of PAM or the wrong
> kernel or no version of limits.conf to edit, or no pre-existing user
> group, or an ancient version of JACK, or a version of JACK with a
> totally broken and utterly ridiculous library dependency name, or
> versions of JACK built with the wrong assembler options ... watching
> users struggle with this stuff is just incredibly frustrating and
> sometimes that spills over to our interactions with users.
>
> i for one am close to abandoning all efforts to provide support &
> assistance to people using JACK on anything other than a small handful
> of Linux distributions, because i am sick and tired of this ridiculous
> situation. its been nearly 4 years since we got mainstream kernels that
> were capable of supporting JACK and pro-audio/music apps out of the box.
> the fact that users today are still dealing with the total crapfest that
> we see every day on IRC and on the mailing lists is just totally
> unacceptable. i don't know whose fault it is (maybe its mine, i'm not
> ruling it out), but its a totally waste of everyone's time. 
>
> distros: people want creativity apps on linux. for audio this means that
> you users will run JACK. with realtime scheduling priviledges. and they
> will possibly upgrade JACK before you do. fix it! please!
>   

I never got acidness by jack developers. I'm a JACK user and for some
issues there is the need to report this to the developer list, e.g. bugs
like the JACK transport delay or things about the handling, like the
issue about name aliases.

A package problem or what ever the cause is, might be wrong at a
developers list, but audio users (and I guess developers sometimes too),
won't be in the right place with questions about audio, if they use
distro forums. I first googled and was linked to ...

"Hello
I made an upgrade of a Suse11-System with packman enabeled and jackd was
upgraded to 0.116.1. No jackd refuses to start with undefined symbol:
clock_source.

My next move was to install the official release from source. Yet to
noavail: the problem stays the same.

What could this be? (http://ardour.org/node/2271)"

The Packman package should not be the cause, said someone from Packman,
also it was declared that I don't have knowledge.

For 64 Studio there's a user list, but 64 Studio 2.1 stable is still
using JACK 0.103.

Users need a please were it's allowed to be stupid and because I have
some knowledge about versions (not about Linux in general) that the Suse
people don't have, I wished to have a forum on a board for users, but
there are such issues unwanted, that's why I asked were such issues are
wanted.

The answer is, that they are wanted at mailing lists, only on English,
like the 64 Studio one. But if users will have issues that are
interesting for developers too, than they need latest versions.

E.g. Tommi and I have 64bit hardware, Envy24 cards and jackd timeouts,
we never had with 32bit hardware before. My jackd are 0.103 and 0.109
and when I upgraded from 0.109 to 0.116, by using mouse-clicks for the
YaST2 GUI, my  Suse was broken. All because I don't have the knowledge
to click right?!

The 1. place to asked should be a forum for users, but what to do, if
you don't get help?

Which distro is the right distro for audio and MIDI users to use?




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Re: [LAD] JACK for openSUSE 11.0 x86_64

[Ralf Mardorf]

Thomas Kuther wrote:
> On Di, 16.12.08 06:12 Ralf Mardorf  wrote:
>
>   
>> What I'm thinking of, isn't to erase any package, but I hope I used
>> the replace option not correct and that it will be possible to
>> replace jack2 libs by jack libs, or if I like to get jack2 installed
>> correctly, this hopefully will also be fine, if I know how to use the
>> replace options in the right way. And I won't forget to run ldconfig.
>>
>> 
>
> I would definately clean it up. So, to sum up the "how to do this"..
>
> 1) Get rid of jack2 (that's jackdmp I guess)
>   

Yes, jackdmp now is called jack2 (from the sight of a user like me).
Perhaps I should test jack2 too (one day).

> # rpm -e --nodeps jack2 libjack2-0 libjackserver2-0
>
> 2) Just to be sure, also remove jack(1)
>
> # rpm -e --nodeps jack libjack0 libjackserver0 libjack-devel
> libjack0-32bit
>
> (I agree with paul that this naming scheme is absolutely ridiculous,
> on Gentoo it's called like upstream calls it: jack-audio-connection-kit)
>
> 3) Now make sure that there are no leftovers of
> libjack* in /usr/lib and /usr/lib64 and /usr/local/lib (who knows)
>
> 4) Then fire up YaST2, and make sure that you unset all ignored
> conflicts! "Extras -> Ignorierte Abhängigkeitskonflikte zurücksetzen"
>   

:D my Linux all are on English, because I need to use lists on English.
But I understand what I have to take care about.

> 5) Reinstall jack by using either the suse-oss, or Jessi's rpm.
>   

This is ...
> If you choose to use packman, use _only_ zypper, and never touch YaST
> again afterwards! See below.
>   
... the ultimate amends :).

So it wasn't because I'm stupid? There is a bug?

> Hope that helps.
> --
> @ oc2pus, jack in packman is broken, or YaST is. I set up a fresh
> install in a virtual machine using 11.1RC1 and only added packman.
>
> Currently there is:
> * pulseaudio-module-jack-0.9.12-8.5
> * libjack0-0.116.1-0.pm.1
>
> Now if I tick the box in YaST to install "jack" it pulls in
> libjackserver2-0 and jack, which of course breaks things, as it keeps
> libjack0. zypper on the other side gets it right. See the screenshot!
> http://gimpel.ath.cx/~tom/jack_weirdness.png
>
> If I would let YaST go on with that, I would end up with a broken jack
> install too :)
>
> I you, Ralf, used YaST, it really wasn't your fault at all.
>
> Regards,
> Thomas
>   

But I have to say, that I was doing this for 11.0,I have a 11.1 RC too,
but this comes without JACK at the moment.

Thank you very much :)

Ralf



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Re: [LAD] JACK for openSUSE 11.0 x86_64

[Ralf Mardorf]

oc2...@arcor.de wrote:
> nor the packman package or yast is broken...
>
> pulseaudio-module-jack has a (wrong ?) requires to jack instead libjack.so.1 
> (or a other program in your system) . And as there are more than one provider 
> for jack, yast pulls in the first provider for jack it finds.
>
> So the bad packages in this dependency hell are the ones who has a "Requires: 
> jack"
>   

I don't wish to have stuff like arts and pulseaudio on my machine, I
always disable system sounds, because my Linux are audio Workstations,
resp. they should be audio workstations.

That's why I compile and set up a lot myself. I won't read what I have
to do, if I use package managements all the time.

How should a user know about that? "I will upgrade jack, but shall know,
that I have to google for problems with pulseaudio"?!

I hate it, that I'm forced to have bull shit like arts, because I'm
using KDE. I don't know anything about pulseaudio.



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Re: [LAD] JACK for openSUSE 11.0 x86_64

[Ralf Mardorf]

Toni wrote:
> you need rpm -e --nodeps  perhaps additionally the 
> option --allmatches if packages are installed twice.
>
> than a package is removed and you have a temporary inconsitent system, but if 
> you install immediately the other packages all will be fine :)
>   

Thank you :)

as I have written, I made a quick test, when I was tired. I bet this is
written in the man page too?!

Cheers,
Ralf




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[LAD] Kernels for audio and MIDI

[Ralf Mardorf]

Original subject: [LAD] backporting alsa1.0.18a

Jens M Andreasen wrote:
> While attemting to install alsa1.0.18a on a system based on Linux2.6.24,
> I am stuck with:
>
> alsa-kernel/core/hrtimer.c:29: error: implicit declaration of function
> ‘hrtimer_forward_now’
>
> This function was introduced with kernel 2.6.25 - which also happens to
> be the first kernel where RT-patches breaks for midi.
>
> Anybody has got an idea for a workaround?

Sorry Jens, I can't help.

The people with real knowledge tell stupid people like me, that the
kernel 2.6.25 is better than the kernel 2.6.24.

At the end it looks like we need kernel 2.6.22 for 64bit, an experience
the 64 Studio developers made.



"stachelmaus hat geschrieben:Schade das es wieder nur
englischsprachig geht. Wer ebenfalls die RC testet, kann vielleicht
hier hilfreich zur Seite stehen:
http://forums.opensuse.org/pre-release- ... ost1906146




Was ich an der ganzen Sache nicht verstehe (und ich habe nun diesen
thread hier, deinen thread im Multimedia Forum, deinen post auf der
linux-audio-developers Liste und nun den im opensuse forum gelesen)...

Wenn es doch um die Unterstützung neuer Hardware geht, warum baust du
dir dann auf einer release-candidate Version von OpenSUSE 11.1 einen
kernel selber, der auf einer noch älteren Version von Linux basiert als
der in der aktuell stabilen 11.0?

Du baust da den 2.6.24er, 11.0 kommt mit 2.6.25-rt, jengelh bietet auch
.25er an. Das ergibt, wenn es um die Unterstützung neuer Hardware geht,
nicht wirklich viel Sinn, denn die kommt meist mit neueren Linux Versionen.

Und btw: http://www.das-dass.de <- !"
(http://www.linux-club.de/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=99372&p=605474#p605474)






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Re: [LAD] JACK for openSUSE 11.0 x86_64

[Ralf Mardorf]

oc2...@arcor.de wrote:
> Am Dienstag, 16. Dezember 2008 schrieb torb...@gmx.de:
>   
>> On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 12:31:22PM +0100, oc2...@arcor.de wrote:
>> 
>>> Am Dienstag, 16. Dezember 2008 schrieb Thomas Kuther:
>>>   
>>>> @ oc2pus, jack in packman is broken, or YaST is. I set up a fresh
>>>> install in a virtual machine using 11.1RC1 and only added packman.
>>>>
>>>> Currently there is:
>>>> * pulseaudio-module-jack-0.9.12-8.5
>>>> * libjack0-0.116.1-0.pm.1
>>>>
>>>> Now if I tick the box in YaST to install "jack" it pulls in
>>>> libjackserver2-0 and jack, which of course breaks things, as it keeps
>>>> libjack0. zypper on the other side gets it right. See the screenshot!
>>>> http://gimpel.ath.cx/~tom/jack_weirdness.png
>>>> 
>>> nor the packman package or yast is broken...
>>>   
>> hmm... ok. it looks like libjack0-0.109.2 is not requiring
>> jack-0.109.2.
>>
>> and jack-0.109.2 only requires libjack0.so
>> which can be provided by libjack2 and libjack1.
>>
>> i consider this broken.
>> 
>
> just for the records: 
> these are not packman packages.
> the packman packages contains a X.pm.Y in the release tag, the actual version 
> is 0.116.1.
>   

THAT'S the evilness? You don't know what time it is! Yes, a Suse install
comes with default packages @ repo-oss. Is Packman incompatible to Suse
repositories? Ican't read anything in the Linux Club howtos, stupid
people like me should read.

YOU ARE WRONG and tries to blame me, even if I came with the calumet and
was sorry that I boiled over.

NOW YOU are again twisting the truth. YOU LOSER!

> A lib-package normally doesn't contain a requirement to a program-package.
>
> For my packages in the packman repository:
> As a reaction of this thread, I uploaded new packages for jack and jack2.
> They are now mutually exclusive and the user must change wich one to use. 
> Formerly jack2 was handled as a update to jack.I followed also the idea from 
> Torben to handle the jack-daemon like a library.
>
> The "Requires" to the underlying library packages where already part of the 
> packman packages. So I hope the problems of upgrading/changing the 
> jack-versions are solved.
>
>
> And a last note to Mr. Ralf Mardorf 
> your posting in the linux-club community is very astonishing. You grab 
> sentences from Paul and others from here and put them in a very very special 
> context to fit your argumentation against SuSE distribution and especially 
> the packman repository.
> http://www.linux-club.de/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=99521&p=605724#p605724
> And words like "überhebliche Schwätzer" are very motivating.
>
> have fun
> oc2pus

No I'm Pro-Suse, I was going to write an howto and you always quoted me
wrong, BECAUSE I mentioned that if you have knowledge about pro-audio
and you are really making music, you need to have different kernels than
those from the packages, you need to compile stuff yourself, because you
always will get troubles and the moderators made jokes about me, even
you MOTHERFUCKER made jokes here.

You said IN THIS LIST, NOBODY will have any conflicts, it's only me.

You twisting the truth even now, I would like to make Suse a audio and
MIDI workstation, that's why I do what I do.

IGNORANT PEOPLE like you make it impossible, you are AGAINST SUSE, it's
not me.

YOU ARE A LIAR and everybody can read it here.




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Re: [LAD] JACK for openSUSE 11.0 x86_64

[Ralf Mardorf]

oc2pus IF YOU are making music by using the Packman repositories and
nobody, but me run into trouble with your package, why has anybody but
you problems? I guess you don't make music using your own packages!



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Re: [LAD] JACK for openSUSE 11.0 x86_64

[Ralf Mardorf]

oc2...@arcor.de wrote:
> You grab 
> sentences from Paul and others from here and put them in a very very special 
> context to fit your argumentation against SuSE distribution and especially 
> the packman repository.
> http://www.linux-club.de/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=99521&p=605724#p605724
> And words like "überhebliche Schwätzer" are very motivating.
>   

That's not true! Yes, I quoted Paul Davis. In which context that isn't
true? Where have I ever given a statement against Suse? I'm using Suse
since 9.0 constantly and I'm compiling for Debian that also has the
jack, libjack issue. I argued against your ignorance and your twisting
of the truth.

I was going to write a howto for Suse and needed help and I said the
truth and you said that's not true, I have no knowledge.





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Re: [LAD] JACK for openSUSE 11.0 x86_64

[Ralf Mardorf]

A last statement!

I started with 11.1 RC  to avoid that Suse again will be bad for
pro-audio and in two days there again will be a new stable release
that's totally invalid. All because I get bashes at Linux Club. I boiled
over here, yes and I'm still boiling ...

Have you ever made music with your YaST Suse? I guess you will have set
limits.conf manually? Some pro-audio folks need to do more and I was
interested in solving this.

Please translate the threads at Linux Club and quote them here. I'm not
lying, but you do so.



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Re: [LAD] JACK for openSUSE 11.0 x86_64

[Ralf Mardorf]

Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> A last statement!
>
> I started with 11.1 RC  to avoid that Suse again will be bad for
> pro-audio and in two days there again will be a new stable release
> that's totally invalid. All because I get bashes at Linux Club. I boiled
> over here, yes and I'm still boiling ...
>
> Have you ever made music with your YaST Suse? I guess you will have set
> limits.conf manually? Some pro-audio folks need to do more and I was
> interested in solving this.
>
> Please translate the threads at Linux Club and quote them here. I'm not
> lying, but you do so.
>   

I go away from Linux Club, because I don't want this flame war! Why must
it go on here?

Was I'm wrong or was the package wrong?




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Re: [LAD] JACK for openSUSE 11.0 x86_64

[Ralf Mardorf]

Thomas Kuther wrote:
> On Di, 16.12.08 20:17 Ralf Mardorf  wrote:
>
>   
>> I go away from Linux Club, because I don't want this flame war! Why
>> must it go on here?
>> 
>
> Good, because you will be banned inbetween the next minutes anyway
> after your last mails here, and that post there.
>
> A lot of people here and there tried to find out what the heck your
> problem is, tried to help you, did actually find the problem, and there
> is even a solution for you and new jack packages for all.
>
> And if you call someone a loser and a motherf for absolutely no
> obvious reason, on a public list read by thousands of people, you do not
> deserve any further help. Not here, not in any forum, not on any other
> list.
>
> Jeees...
>   

You can ban me for my words here, but what have I written at Linux Club,
that you ban me from Linux Club? And especially you don't have the might
to ban me from the Linux community, but anyway, I will go myself.



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Re: [LAD] JACK for openSUSE 11.0 x86_64

[Ralf Mardorf]

torb...@gmx.de wrote:
> so lets drink some "virtual" beer together, and let this stuff
> rest. And Ralf, i hope that, you see that apart from pointing out
> the problem you did not help in solving this problem.
>   

I'll drink some alcohol free real beer and maybe one with alcohol too.

A lot of people have troubles with Linux, they report about their
troubles, people laugh about them and say that there will be not such
troubles and the troubles stay.

It ends in a flame war, because I asked and again I was the one who made
everything wrong. I go away from Linux Club to get help here, but oc2pus
started here again that I'm wrong, but I wasn't wrong.

Okay, now I'm banned here and at Linux Club.

If I had relented instead of boiling over, there will be still a bad
package.

But okay, I'm evil. I'm a musician and I have emotions, oc2pus might be
cool, he seems to be not a musician, he didn't noticed that the package
was broken, after I reported it. Everything is my failure.

I don't see a future for multimedia production on Linux, if people
ignore the truth, e.g. you can tell a 100 times that some people need
special kernel versions, nobody is interested.



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Re: [LAD] JACK for openSUSE 11.0 x86_64

[Ralf Mardorf]

torb...@gmx.de wrote:
> And Ralf, i hope that, you see that apart from pointing out
> the problem you did not help in solving this problem.
>   

And I even wasn't the one who pointed out the problem, there were people
doing it before me, but nobody take care about them, because they didn't
boiled over.



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[LAD] Just a suggestion about how to handle bug reports

[Ralf Mardorf]

I'm not banned for some mailing list and some of the recipients are very
kind, but their lists are joined by people who maybe should pay
attention to this.

If you want people to report bugs, than

- don't laugh about them and say that they are the only one with that
problem and they should search the web before they do stupid bug
reports. Be careful, sometimes the user might have more knowledge and
you only think you're right.

- you say they are right, but the bug isn't caused by your software,
package-build, wiki, they should search the web and find out them self
where they have to report bugs. Users might be stupid, but they won't
report a bug for their office suit to ALSA and reporting a bug that has
to do with an audio application, might be reported to ALSA, JACK, the
kernel community, because they all have to do with such a bug

- allow people to report without getting subscribed

I'm suggesting this because I misbehaved, when I asked because of a bug.
Now I'm banned for a forum and a mailing list, but they grant me, that I
have pointed out something that was unknown.

But I wasn't the one who pointed out this bug, the web was full of posts
from other people, before I even noticed this bug. When they try to
report something and been laughed at etc., they don't go on like I did,
they won't be idiots like I'm. They won't be banned.

A lot of people change over to windows, a lot of people report bugs and
nobody cares about, a lot of people won't spend hours in reporting
something, by reading rules how to do this, e.g. I was exhorted to write
the German word "das" correctly, because there are rules, that this word
sometimes must be written "dass" instead of "das".

I often reported bugs to people who than said, they are making music too
and that bug didn't exist, a year later it's noticed in a developer list
and they have long threads about it and they wonder why nobody reported
this before.

People don't try to asked, because they have fear to asked in a wrong
kind, the wrong questions. If you report a bug you often hear use this
distro instead of this distro, if you don't like it, or use Windows
instead of Linux, if you don't like it. But you do like a special
distro, application etc. ...

Things went terrible wrong in the community and it's not a borderline
and dyslexic personality like me ... "normal" people have fear to use
Linux, to ask the community.

If anybody is interested in what I noticed about Linux audio and MIDI,
which bugs I have myself etc., I will go on, because I will stay at
Linux for nearly everything, but I guess I have to find something else
for multimedia. Hints for alternatives to Linux are welcome.

Don't worry, I won't write anything again if I'm unwanted.

Good luck for multimedia Linux!



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Re: [LAD] [64studio-users] Just a suggestion about how to handle bug reports

[Ralf Mardorf]

Hi Gustin :)

it's easy to get named a troll. What should a user do, that has troubles
with JACK?

I like the 64 Studio community, unfortunately the version for the 64
Studio 2.1 stable version is 0.103.

It's silly if a user reports a bug about that version, while the JACK
developers needs statements about 0.116.

There are distros like Suse, that supports 0.116 by community packages,
e.g. for Suse it's the Packman repository.

I had contact to the packager by the Linux Club.

People reported that bug e.g. to the Ardour forums, a long time before I
had this bug. There they say, it's a JACK bug, but this isn't true, it
was a packman bug. http://ardour.org/node/2271

I don't want to talk again about this, because I'm personal involved in
this, maybe someone of those who replied off-list can give other
examples, I won't quote private mails.

Testing of RCs often is unwanted. I tried to make a howto and needed
help and that was unwanted. And people don't report bugs to the right
places, 1. because they don't know the right places and 2. because they
know, that they will get bashed.

When I reported the JACK package bug for Packman I get sarcasms.  I was
a troll, who made everything wrong, because I have no knowledge. Nobody
but me should have this bug too, written by the packer, who asserted
that he makes music with the packages from Packman. This must be a lie,
because this package is broken for everyone.

1. If you like to help and write a howto, but you need some help because
you e.g. don't know that compilers differ for several Linux, you need to
add headers for some applications, than you do something that is unwanted.
2. If you report that something don't work, you need help, than you are
a troll, because it's not true.

I'm not the only one. Why can you find bugs in the web, that are not
reported to the right people?

I got mails off-list, with statements similar to "I recently got raked
over the coals by ...".

Which distribution can I use, that is wanted by the developers? How do I
have to report bugs? When I say "Hello, there's a bug" I don't want the
answer, that I'm a noob, nobody has this bug, while the whole community
has got the same bug.

I'm not the "Girl, interrupted" when I reported a bug and I'm not a
individual case. I get crazed, when people are unconvincable, they don't
need to excuse, while people like me get banned.

The only thing users can do, is to report bugs anonymous, in forums
somewhere in the web, instead of talking to the right people.

Misspelling for a user who reports something should be allowed.
Posting a bug that was posted before, should be allowed.
Posting a bug of a front or back end to the back or front end people
should be allowed.
To be stupid should be allowed.

But it isn't.

Cheers,
Ralf

PS: I have a bad conscience because I wrote this troll like stuff. I
also get off-list mails that this will break the work. But I guess it's
a topic, if Linux is also for Users. I never developed anything for
Linux, but I was a developer too. I don't understand the problem with
bug reports. At the moment it looks like I'm not banned in much mailing
lists, as it was written.



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Re: [LAD] [Ardour-Users] Just a suggestion about how to handle bug reports

[Ralf Mardorf]

Gordon JC Pearce MM3YEQ wrote:
> That's because you made it clear you'd already pretty badly broken
> your system, and wouldn't actually do any of the things other posters
> had told you to do to fix it ;-)

No, the first reply was, that it's not true, that there was a bug for
the Packman JACK. But don't let us go on with this.

A fictive example (,resp. it isn't fictive, I had good luck and reported it to 
the right people and they were kindly); your DE has it's own burning 
application, the burning
application is using different applications itself, you get no messages
which application failed.

Will you report this to the distro developers?
The DE developers?
The tool developers?
The end application developers?
The kernel module developers?

And if you will report it to everyone of them, don't miss any of the rules.





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[LAD] Sorry, just an information about the status quo of jack for Suse 11 from Packman

[Ralf Mardorf]

Hi :)

I'm double-sorry if a mail some minutes before came through the list,
but while I take a look at my account on the homepage of my provider,
there seems to be something wrong. I take a breather and will read any
mails within the next days, but not today, I also can't reply to the old
thread from were I'm writing now.

I just want to inform, that I repaired Suse 11.0 for JACK, but that
there still is a problem for other people.

If someone will do a YaST2 update for all packages, if a newer version
is available, than only libjack will be upgraded, but not jack and then
their JACKs will be broken, so if people do an update and they have 1.
JACK installed and 2. the Packman repository enabled, at the moment they
need to take care about libjack, they need to manually keep libjack, or
they should disable the Packman repository. Status quo of this was at
around 19:50, then there was no 0.116 jack or jack2 available, but a
libjack 0.116.

Cheers,
Ralf

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Re: [LAD] Hey what have happened to rncbc.org?

[Ralf Mardorf]

Anders Dahnielson wrote:
> Hey what have happened to rncbc.org ?
>
> I can't get it to load...
>
> http://www.rncbc.org/
>
> -- 
> Anders Dahnielson
> mailto:and...@dahnielson.com>>

The same from Germany Ruhrgebiet, provider Alice. It's not an server
error, the site should not exist.

Maybe rncbc changed to Sourceforge sites and Google don't know it?
Qtractor, Qsynth, Qsampler and QjackCtl e.g. are sourceforge sites and
projects of Rui.



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Re: [LAD] Hey what have happened to rncbc.org?

[Ralf Mardorf]

The email address he is using for jack dev list is @ this domain, he
probably had noticed that the domain is blocked.

> According to whois, the domain is expired (as of December 9) and is in
> autoRenewPeriod mode (registrar renewed to secure the name, but domain
> holder has not yet paid). I hope Rui is aware of that...
>
> On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 2:37 PM, Ralf Mardorf
>  wrote:
>   
>> Anders Dahnielson wrote:
>> 
>>> Hey what have happened to rncbc.org <http://rncbc.org>?
>>>
>>> I can't get it to load...
>>>
>>> http://www.rncbc.org/
>>>
>>> --
>>> Anders Dahnielson
>>> mailto:and...@dahnielson.com>>
>>>   
>> The same from Germany Ruhrgebiet, provider Alice. It's not an server
>> error, the site should not exist.
>>
>> Maybe rncbc changed to Sourceforge sites and Google don't know it?
>> Qtractor, Qsynth, Qsampler and QjackCtl e.g. are sourceforge sites and
>> projects of Rui.
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Re: [LAD] Hey what have happened to rncbc.org?

[Ralf Mardorf]

> The email address he is using for jack dev list is @ this domain, he
> probably had noticed that the domain is blocked.
>
>   
>> According to whois, the domain is expired (as of December 9) and is in
>> autoRenewPeriod mode (registrar renewed to secure the name, but domain
>> holder has not yet paid). I hope Rui is aware of that...
>> 

He definitive can't use this domain for emails ;).
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Re: [LAD] Hey what have happened to rncbc.org?

[Ralf Mardorf]

Rui Nuno Capela wrote:
> what was the question?
>   

Someone from the list just asked: "Hey what have happened to rncbc.org
?" ;)
There wasn't any question addressed to you :).

Ralf



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Re: [LAD] Developers section @ linuxmusicians.com

[Ralf Mardorf]

Congratulations :)

this is a very good idea. If someone with experience can write a list
with good howtos this would be a help.

I'm not young, I'm old and I was coder for audio and MIDI on non real
multitasking systems. Audio and MIDI stuff itself didn't change for
several issues, but the tools differ a lot.

I would like to have a list with easy to read howtos about how to use
the Linux assemblers, e.g. howtos with an index,  where I quickly can
find conventions for especially this Assembler (the tool, not the language).

Another problem are the makefiles for C, I guess there are hints how to
easy do them.

I never had the time to read long manuals about how to use the tools,
because I have a lot of trouble with my audio Linux and have to solve them.

Cheers,
Ralf



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Re: [LAD] Developers section @ linuxmusicians.com

[Ralf Mardorf]

Bob Ham wrote:
> On Mon, 2008-12-22 at 13:05 +0100, Grammostola Rosea wrote:
>
>   
>> A couples months ago we started a forum at linuxmusicians.com .
>> 
>
> I had a quick look and it seems like a valuable site.  However, I
> noticed that the Linux Distributions & Other Software section has the
> following description:
>
> "What other apps and distros do you use to round out your home studio?"
>
> I wouldn't assume that Linux is used solely in home studios.  It seems
> to be enjoying increased usage in commercial audio products.  There are
> also numerous academic environments using Linux for music-related
> teaching.  I don't personally know of any commercial studios that use
> Linux desktops but I certainly wouldn't assume there were none.  In
> fact, that assumption and the above description seem quite
> counter-productive, particularly for those with the goal of supporting
> development by providing services to commercial studios.
>
> Might I recommend removing the word "home" from the description?
>
> Regards,
>
> Bob
>   


Hi Bob :)

I think it's relevant to ask for "studios in the box". Independently if
Linux is used in professional studios or not, the usage for a home
recording studio differs to that of a professional studio. Professional
studios seldom are using a studio in the box, they will use the computer
with lots of stand alone equipment. Home recording studios often have
stand alone equipment too, but because of various reasons a lot of work,
that is made with stand alone equipment in a professional studio, is
done with the studio in the box at home.

I guess some professional studios e.g. are using the Korg OASIS Linux,
but it will be more helpful to know about FLOSS combinations, that might
help everyone of us, having a home recording studio based on Linux.

I'm out of the "really" professional studio world since years, but some
years ago, the usage of computers in studios that produce the charts and
make soundtracks for Hollywood, wasn't the home recorders "studio in the
box"-usage-way. I guess a professional studio that is producing radio
jingles and stuff like that can be called home recording studio too.

Maybe just asking for "home recording" isn't that good, but a request
for "studios in the box" is more what we need.

Happy New Year!
Ralf
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Re: [LAD] [Fwd: Re: realtime kernel for Debian]

[Ralf Mardorf]

Grammostola Rosea wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Sorry, but I've to call again...
>
> The developers seems very willing to include a realtime kernel there 
> repo. They need some people who wants to build and maintain it. This is 
> really  a chance  for  linux audio, especially on Debian.  *This is the 
> moment!*
>
> So please consider to offer your help in building, maintaining  and/or 
> testing!
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> \r

I often patch vanillas with the rt patch and check them for my hardware,
until now all kernels failed with my hardware. I stopped with 64 Studio
2.1 based on etch running a self compiled kernel 2.6.24.7-rt17 for
Debian based distros. For music I now run a stable Windows, but I will
test any kernel, if someone else will build it.

Best,
Ralf



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Re: [LAD] Tux Paint for music?

[Ralf Mardorf]

Dave Phillips wrote:
> David Olofson wrote:
>   
>> [snip]
>>
>> In short: Tux Paint for music! :-)
>>
>>
>> Is there something like this already out there?
>>   
>> 
>
> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/TamTam
>
> Perhaps ?
>
> Best,
>
> dp

Hi Dave, hi David :)

it looks like TuxPaint for music :). I'm short in time, resp. need to 
check my audio Linux with other applications, but I tried to get TamTam 
in passing. I couldn't found a package for any Linux distro and I 
couldn't found a valid link to a source code. If you know what I might 
have overseen in passing, a valid link to the source code or a package 
for any Linux distro, please post a link.

Thanx,
Ralf
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Re: [LAD] Tux Paint for music?

[Ralf Mardorf]

Gabriel M. Beddingfield wrote:
> No packages AFAIK, but you can check out the sources via Git or SVN.  See
> here for the URL's:
>
>http://dev.laptop.org/git/projects/tamtam
>
> (BTW, this link was at the top right-hand corner of the Wiki page).
>   

The checkout option for the svn and git commands failed :(, maybe I'm 
using the paths in a wrong way?!
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Re: [LAD] Tux Paint for music?

[Ralf Mardorf]

Gabriel M. Beddingfield wrote:
> On Wed, May 6, 2009 12:02 pm, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>   
>> Gabriel M. Beddingfield wrote:
>> 
>>> No packages AFAIK, but you can check out the sources via Git or SVN.
>>> See
>>> here for the URL's:
>>>
>>>http://dev.laptop.org/git/projects/tamtam
>>>
>>> (BTW, this link was at the top right-hand corner of the Wiki page).
>>>
>>>   
>> The checkout option for the svn and git commands failed :(, maybe I'm
>> using the paths in a wrong way?!
>>
>> 
>
> I was mistaken about SVN... sorry.  This worked for me (I have Git
> installed):
>
> $ git clone git://dev.laptop.org/projects/tamtam
>
> It's about a 46MB download (full history).
>
> Thanks,
> Gabriel
>   

Okay and I used $ git checkout, the way svn gets sources :D.
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Re: [LAD] Tux Paint for music?

[Ralf Mardorf]

Sugar/ XO is in my 64 Studio 3.0 / Ubuntu Hardy repositories. Hm, I 
guess I read something about TamTam isn't fine with XO? I might be 
wrong. I must be wrong, XO seems to be a platform for a project called 
One Laptop Per Child. Anyhow, I just watched the list and found TamTam 
interesting, but at the moment I have something more important to do.

I hope this is a help for David, who ask for it, maybe he can report if 
it's fine and write a little howto ;).

Thanx for the information,
Ralf

Andres Cabrera wrote:
> Hi,
> I think you need to install Sugar to run it. There are Sugar packages
> for Debian and Fedora (among others).
> Once you have Sugar installed, instead of getting the source you can
> grab the package from activities.sugarlabs.org and run the program
> from the journal.
>
> Cheers,
> Andrés
>
> On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 1:08 PM, Gabriel M. Beddingfield
>  wrote:
>   
>> On Wed, May 6, 2009 12:02 pm, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>> 
>>> Gabriel M. Beddingfield wrote:
>>>   
>>>> No packages AFAIK, but you can check out the sources via Git or SVN.
>>>> See
>>>> here for the URL's:
>>>>
>>>>http://dev.laptop.org/git/projects/tamtam
>>>>
>>>> (BTW, this link was at the top right-hand corner of the Wiki page).
>>>>
>>>> 
>>> The checkout option for the svn and git commands failed :(, maybe I'm
>>> using the paths in a wrong way?!
>>>
>>>   
>> I was mistaken about SVN... sorry.  This worked for me (I have Git
>> installed):
>>
>>$ git clone git://dev.laptop.org/projects/tamtam
>>
>> It's about a 46MB download (full history).
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Gabriel
>>
>> --
>>   G a b r i e l   M   B e d d i n g f i e l d
>>
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>> 
>
>
>
>   

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Re: [LAD] [Jack-Devel] more jack/qjackctl madness : some comments

[Ralf Mardorf]

Bob Ham wrote:
> On Tue, 2009-05-19 at 10:37 +0200, Fons Adriaensen wrote:
>
>   
>> Someone sets up a firm that provides a free service:
>> they enhance your life by removing things from your
>> home and disposing of them.
>>
>> One day I return home and find some things have been
>> removed.
>>
>> I go the manager of the free service and tell him:
>>
>> - Listen, I don't want you to enter my home and 
>>   remove things uninvited.
>>
>> - But then I can't do my job !
>>
>> - So you are thieves ?
>>
>> - No, no, no, we just provide a free service
>>   that enhances your life.
>> 
>
>
> I have to say, I think this is really out of line, Fons.  Implying free
> software developers are theives because they've changed something and
> you don't like it is quite extraordinary.
>
> I think a better analogy would be like so:
>
>
> Someone sets up a firm that provides and maintains free furniture,
> appliances, plumbing and electricity for anybody's home.
>
> One day, you come home and find half of your radiators don't work
> because someone has started upgrading the plumbing and hasn't finished
> yet.
>
> You go to the manager of the free service and tell him:
>
> - Listen, I don't want you to stop the radiators in my house from
>   working.
>
> - That's fine, you're entirely free to install your own plumbing, or fix
>   the plumbing we've installed for you.
>
> - I don't want to, you should do it for me and do it right dammit!

Both metaphors are error coloured.

If a community will do something together as an free alternative, than 
nobody can command to get something that fit to his needs so much tuned, 
as if he has paid for something.

But it's stupid for a free alternative, if working stuff can become 
absolutely incompatible to older versions or cause major troubles for 
many used functions.

I'm speaking in general, not especially for the different threads about 
the rc files and dbus.

If people call attention to things that can cause trouble in the future 
or that cause trouble right now, than it's not clever to answer, that he 
should do it by himself, pay for something etc..

Ideas, different opinions or getting aware of something other people 
haven't noticed and refer to it, isn't an attack against the people that 
are working for free, especially not if it comes from people who do 
their self work without being paid.

I'm using Linux since years (not rt-audio ;)) and the architecture of 
Linux has one big disadvantage. You might have a Linux that is fine, the 
times are changing and in addition you need an absolutely new 
application, but you don't need to update any of the applications you're 
using since years.

You can't install the new application, because dependencies needs to be 
updated and that causes that also your perfect working applications 
needs to be updated.

You do an update. The new applications is fine. The old, updated 
applications ...

... are fine
... but not all, some are broken ...
... others are fine for new work, but you can't load old projects any 
more ...
... other applications can't be installed any more ... etc. ...

Sometimes a coder or a packer (packages builder?!) don't work as 
intensive with 'hi' application as the community does, so he can fail to 
see some issues.

Resume: If something was fine, it's not an advantage if it gets broken. 
If something needs to be broken, because of the development, it 
shouldn't be released. We won't practise on stage, we practise in the 
rehearsal room.

Sorry, I need to write this,
Ralf
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Re: [LAD] [Jack-Devel] more jack/qjackctl madness : some comments

[Ralf Mardorf]

Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> Sometimes a coder or a packer (packages builder?!) don't work as 
> intensive with 'hi' application as the community does, so he can fail 
> to see some issues.
'hi' is missing an 's', it should be 'his' ... I guess my English is too 
broken, so there seems to be the need to correct this, otherwise nobody 
can understand what I was writing about.
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Re: [LAD] [Jack-Devel] more jack/qjackctl madness : some comments

[Ralf Mardorf]

Nedko Arnaudov wrote:
> Ralf Mardorf  writes:
>
>   
>> If something needs to be broken, because of the development,
>> it shouldn't be released. We won't practise on stage, we practise in
>> the rehearsal room.
>> 
>
> In open source world, with public source control repos each commit is a
> publish. So you got a camera in your rehearshal room. And the live
> stream is watched by whom likes your jaming.
>   

Watching the jam for free, you can learn a lot, but you don't get the 
music you might wish to get, you need to go to the concert for free or 
you need to download the recording for free AND the band can produce 
different new versions, but it should be possible to hear the first 
version of the concert in the future ... metaphors won't work ;).
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Re: [LAD] [Jack-Devel] more jack/qjackctl madness : some comments

[Ralf Mardorf]

Henry Gomersall wrote:
> On Tue, 2009-05-19 at 18:26 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>   
>> I'm using Linux since years (not rt-audio ;)) and the architecture of 
>> Linux has one big disadvantage. You might have a Linux that is fine,
>> the 
>> times are changing and in addition you need an absolutely new 
>> application, but you don't need to update any of the applications
>> you're 
>> using since years.
>>
>> You can't install the new application, because dependencies needs to
>> be 
>> updated and that causes that also your perfect working applications 
>> needs to be updated.
>>
>> 
> I don't see how this is different to any system (Windows, Mac, Game
> Boy). The main difference being that you are actually free, yourself, to
> modify the code and keep it working. That is the point about being able
> to modify the code yourself.
>
> Henry
>   

The latest version of the Atari Cubase still can run sessions of the 
first version, sometimes you can't do this with Rosegarden between two 
versions (okay, I nearly does NO RT-AUDIO with Linux ;)). But the point 
isn't what is possible or impossible for other OS's. For Windows and Mac 
you can get the same open source applications, but not everybody want to 
work with the source code and set up the application by this way, most 
people needs a working tool.
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Re: [LAD] [Jack-Devel] more jack/qjackctl madness : some comments

[Ralf Mardorf]

Nedko Arnaudov wrote:
> Ralf Mardorf  writes:
>
>   
>> Nedko Arnaudov wrote:
>> 
>>> Ralf Mardorf  writes:
>>>
>>>   
>>>   
>>>> If something needs to be broken, because of the development,
>>>> it shouldn't be released. We won't practise on stage, we practise in
>>>> the rehearsal room.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> In open source world, with public source control repos each commit is a
>>> publish. So you got a camera in your rehearshal room. And the live
>>> stream is watched by whom likes your jaming.
>>>   
>>>   
>> Watching the jam for free, you can learn a lot, but you don't get the
>> music you might wish to get, you need to go to the concert for free or
>> you need to download the recording for free AND the band can produce
>> different new versions, but it should be possible to hear the first
>> version of the concert in the future ... metaphors won't work ;).
>> 
>
> The live stream is captured (public repo is persistent) and you can hear
> the first version in the future. ;)
>   

Metaphors don't work :D.
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Re: [LAD] [Jack-Devel] more jack/qjackctl madness : some comments

[Ralf Mardorf]

Bob Ham wrote:
> On Tue, 2009-05-19 at 18:27 +0200, Fons Adriaensen wrote:
>   
>> On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 04:49:58PM +0100, Bob Ham wrote:
>>
>> 
>>> I have to say, I think this is really out of line, Fons.  Implying free
>>> software developers are theives because they've changed something and
>>> you don't like it is quite extraordinary.
>>>   
>> I did not imply such a thing. You are completely 
>> missing the point.
>> 
>
> Such is the danger of analogies.  What was the point?
>   

Running gag: Metaphors don't work :D.

I wish you all get your views reconciled. Tonight I'll try to make music 
with Linux again (by using jack).

Good luck to you, good luck to myself,
Ralf
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Re: [LAD] [Jack-Devel] more jack/qjackctl madness : some comments

[Ralf Mardorf]

Nedko Arnaudov wrote:
> [snip] Or you blame gnome folks about new KDE being crap?
>
> :)
>   

:D

I'm running KDE and GNOME and if there will be conflicts for KDE 
applications, because of GNOME packages, the blame for an odd KDE might 
be on GNOME and I blame Steinberg not to give a FLOSS Cubase for Linux 
or to support Ardour, Rosegraden, Muse, Qtractor by donations :D.
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Re: [LAD] [Jack-Devel] more jack/qjackctl madness : some comments

[Ralf Mardorf]

You get me wrong.

Patrick Shirkey wrote:
> Ralf.
>
> I find it hard to see how you actually understand Linux audio. I get 
> the impression that you have almost tried but instead have 
> persistently trolled on this point since you arrived.
>
> The above is a "full stop" of Ralfs dialog, I say this just in case 
> there is a possible alternative that seems to make sense for a 
> temporary period.
>
> Ralf.
>
> Please stop with your destabilising crap.
>
> - For reference : This must be the 50th time Ralf has been asked to 
> stop dissing Linux Audio...
>
> Eventually someone from the mass media will see through his bs (and M$ 
> fud). Until that time we are at his merciful prerogative to make Linux 
> audio look like he and his cronies give a shit.  I have to wonder tho, 
> That if he is prepared to  spend this much time dissing Linux audio, 
> then his boosses must be really scared about the results as they are 
> obviously well aware of how close we are to the existing sytem that 
> has been devised by  the "Geniuses" at ...(insert your favorite sound 
> system here)
> Ralf. I would really love to hear a conclusive rebuttal from you.. 
> After four years. (is it really that long?)  I  think we are owed a 
> conclusive response.
>
>
> Patrick Shirkey
> Boost Hardware Ltd
>
>
>
> Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>> Bob Ham wrote:
>>  
>>> On Tue, 2009-05-19 at 18:27 +0200, Fons Adriaensen wrote:
>>>  
>>>> On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 04:49:58PM +0100, Bob Ham wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>> I have to say, I think this is really out of line, Fons.  Implying 
>>>>> free
>>>>> software developers are theives because they've changed something and
>>>>> you don't like it is quite extraordinary.
>>>>>   
>>>> I did not imply such a thing. You are completely missing the point.
>>>>   
>>> Such is the danger of analogies.  What was the point?
>>>   
>>
>> Running gag: Metaphors don't work :D.
>>
>> I wish you all get your views reconciled. Tonight I'll try to make 
>> music with Linux again (by using jack).
>>
>> Good luck to you, good luck to myself,
>> Ralf
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>

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Re: [LAD] Presenting volume control sliders

[Ralf Mardorf]

Chris Cannam wrote:
>> A cubic mapping is also good.
>> 
>
> In Rosegarden we actually switched from a cubic mapping to one based
> on the IEC meter mapping, many years ago, because "it seemed like a
> good idea at the time".  I've never really made up my mind whether it
> turned out better or worse.  Nowadays I'd probably go for cubic, since
> it's a one-liner to code.
Jens M Andreasen wrote:
> Having +10 dB at the top is  a good idea.

As a user I never felt uncomfortable with the Rosegarden 1.6.1 and 1.7.0 
faders and sometimes its fine to have +10 dB too.


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Re: [LAD] Presenting volume control sliders

[Ralf Mardorf]

Jens M Andreasen wrote:
> On Thu, 2009-05-21 at 22:39 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>
>   
>> As a user I never felt uncomfortable with the Rosegarden 1.6.1 and 1.7.0 
>> faders and sometimes its fine to have +10 dB too.
>> 
>
> These faders are neither for Rosegarden nor Ardour, I think  ... Rather
> for application like Rythmbox, Ekiga and various Desktop plings that
> needs an easy-to-use short-throw fader for course control of their
> respective master volumes.

If faders should be fine in a wide range for different levels, a trick 
can be a pad switch in addition to the faders.
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Re: [LAD] Presenting volume control sliders

[Ralf Mardorf]

  shall  ;) (not should)
> If fadersbe fine in a wide range for different levels, a trick 
> can be a pad switch in addition to the faders.
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Re: [LAD] Presenting volume control sliders

[Ralf Mardorf]

Jens M Andreasen wrote:
> On Fri, 2009-05-22 at 01:17 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>   
>> If faders should be fine in a wide range for different levels, a trick 
>> can be a pad switch in addition to the faders.
>> 
>
> Mmmm ... Not bad at all, since my main problem with Desktop Application
> Mixdown is with Ekiga. It has gotten old repeatedly singing: "Put your
> sweet lips, a little closer, to the phone ..."
>
> A +20dB button would solve that :)
>   

Seriously!

I don't use any sound for the desktop, but the computer beep and I don't 
run PulseAudio. I don't know how it shall be handled for PulseAudio, 
e.g. if there shall be a fader for each application and a master control 
or what ever. A +20dB button used for a low level signal can cause 
serious damages, while unexpected high level signals. I won't say that 
+6dB or +10dB really will double the loudness, but a rule says +6dB = 
same acoustic pressure at double distance in the free field, while 
another rule says that +10dB will be felt as double loudness.

If an application like Ekiga often needs the signal to be gained, it 
should be an option for the application itself and not for the whole 
desktop environment. Without a limiter a gain of +6dB or +10dB IMO 
shouldn't be overstepped, if it's for all desktop applications.

Another issue is, that if a signal needs to be gained, the side noise 
will be gained too. A trick especially for an application like Eikiga 
would be, to compress and gain and auto level (optimize) just the 
frequencies that are relevant for human speech and to eliminate all 
other frequencies by pass filters, but I guess this is something that 
needs to be done by the application.

Messing around with +20db gain buttons is nothing for desktop users, 
that aren't audio engineers.

Just my 2 cents.

Cheers,
Ralf
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Re: [LAD] Presenting volume control sliders

[Ralf Mardorf]

Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> [snip]
> Messing around with +20db gain buttons is nothing for desktop users, 
> that aren't audio engineers.
>
> Just my 2 cents.
>
> Cheers,
> Ralf
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>   

PS:

A pad to make the fader range more comfortable for different input 
signal levels, really should be a pad, with a loss function and not a 
gain function, still the faders might gain up to +10dB.
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[LAD] Could not deliver the message in the time limit specified.

[Ralf Mardorf]

Hi :)

sorry, I'm a fan of Qtractor, but it's still on a state were bugs 
urgently should be reported and wishes might have more effect than for 
similar, but established applications.

I send 3 mails to rn...@rncbc.org, but I got 'Could not deliver the 
message in the time limit specified.'

I also wasn't able to surf http://www.rncbc.org/, the strange thing is, 
that I don't get an error message.

I know that he's subscribed to Jack-dev and LAD.

Is anybody able to connect to http://www.rncbc.org/?

Some time ago there was a similar problem with his domain. I fear I can 
imagine what the problem is :(.

Best,
Ralf

PS: Now I got "The server at www.rncbc.org is taking too long to respond."
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Re: [LAD] [Jack-Devel] Could not deliver the message in the time limit specified.

[Ralf Mardorf]

> i'm still waiting for those 3 mails to arrive ;)
>   

I'm sorry :)

I targeted to write a better report, my mails are a little bit 
confusing. If you want to take a look right now to this confusing 
reports, here  is the link:

http://lists.64studio.com/pipermail/64studio-users/2009-May/003027.html

There are two post script mails as 'next messages'.

I also wrote two messages because of rtirq.sh and the handling of the 
script for 64 Studio, but they didn't came through the list until now.

Today I had a rest and maybe tomorrow I'll make music by using Qtractor, 
but it seems to be, that this is only possible for music done with 
DSSIs, not with external sources like vocals, because of sync trouble.

Thank you for your effort.

Best,
Ralf
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[LAD] PS: Qtractor wishlist

[Ralf Mardorf]

I guess that you're still busy by programming some 'standard' features, 
so I won't write to you 'please add this, please add that'.

I wrote that it's a PITA, to do settings, because of seg faults. It's 
not too hard, it's able to work relaxed, so don't worry about this.
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Re: [LAD] [Jack-Devel] Could not deliver the message in the time limit specified.

[Ralf Mardorf]

Qtractor

Sorry to the lists, my second last mail was sent off-list and the last 
mail should be sent off-list too, it was sent by mistake to the lists. 
I'll be more careful next time.
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Re: [LAD] [ANNOUNCE] Safe real-time on the desktop by default; Desktop/audio RT developers, read this!

[Ralf Mardorf]

Lennart Poettering wrote:
> So what does RealtimeKit do that previous solutions didn't do? rtkit
> relies on a new kernel feature SCHED_RESET_ON_FORK that got recently
> merged into Ingo's tree and will hence shortly appear in 2.6.31.

Is it proved not to negative affect MIDI jitter? It seems to be an up 
and down with kernel versions. Audio always seems to be fine, while MIDI 
jitter increases or decreases randomly from version to version. It 
should been proved that it won't have unwanted effects, before it's 
included to the rt patch's tree. I'm a user only, it's not an 
assumption, just a question.

Best,
Ralf

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Re: [LAD] [ANNOUNCE] Safe real-time on the desktop by default; Desktop/audio RT developers, read this!

[Ralf Mardorf]

Lennart Poettering wrote:
> On Fri, 19.06.09 20:32, Ralf Mardorf (ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net) wrote:
>
>   
>> Lennart Poettering wrote:
>> 
>>> So what does RealtimeKit do that previous solutions didn't do? rtkit
>>> relies on a new kernel feature SCHED_RESET_ON_FORK that got recently
>>> merged into Ingo's tree and will hence shortly appear in 2.6.31.
>>>   
>> Is it proved not to negative affect MIDI jitter? It seems to be an up  
>> and down with kernel versions. Audio always seems to be fine, while MIDI  
>> jitter increases or decreases randomly from version to version. It  
>> should been proved that it won't have unwanted effects, before it's  
>> included to the rt patch's tree. I'm a user only, it's not an  
>> assumption, just a question.
>> 
>
> This should have no such impact. The flag is only checked for on
> fork(), i.e. almost never.
>
> Lennart
>   

That's good Lennart. Thank you for the information. I always fear that 
things can have impact to the poor relation rt-MIDI.

Best,
Ralf

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Re: [LAD] palm pre [was Re: [ANNOUNCE] Safe real-time on the desktop by default; Desktop/audio RT developers, read this!]

[Ralf Mardorf]

Patrick Shirkey wrote:
>
> On 06/24/2009 02:31 AM, Dennis Schulmeister wrote:
>> On Tue, 2009-06-23 at 12:19 +0100, Krzysztof Foltman wrote:
>>   
>>> Patrick Shirkey wrote:
>>> 
 As a point of interest and comparison that has very little to do with
 this debate,  I just noticed that pulseaudio *is* being used in the Palm 
 Pre
 http://opensource.palm.com/packages.html
 While Jack and Portaudio are not.
   
>>> Yes, also, Palm Pre doesn't ship with pre-installed Ardour, Aeolus,
>>> Hydrogen or Csound. I really don't see why! /s
>>> 
>>
>> Really? No Ardour on the Palm Pre? Now, thank you! I can just cancel my
>> order and stick with the Treo which still is a single-tasking system. I
>> mean: Hey, Ardour doesn't run on either device.
>>
>>
>>   
>
>
> If/when jack is ported it will be possible to run ardour too. gtk2 is 
> supported and it is only a matter of time/money for other libs and 
> deps to be built out.
>
> However will it be viable to run jack on any mobile device?  
> PulseAudio is designed for mobile devices.

It won't be viable for a handy or a toaster, but ... 
http://www.indamixx.com/

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Re: [LAD] palm pre [was Re: [ANNOUNCE] Safe real-time on the desktop by default; Desktop/audio RT developers, read this!]

[Ralf Mardorf]

Patrick Shirkey wrote:
>
> On 06/24/2009 09:26 AM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>> Patrick Shirkey wrote:
>>>
>>> On 06/24/2009 02:31 AM, Dennis Schulmeister wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 2009-06-23 at 12:19 +0100, Krzysztof Foltman wrote:
>>>>> Patrick Shirkey wrote:
>>>>>> As a point of interest and comparison that has very little to do 
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> this debate,  I just noticed that pulseaudio *is* being used in 
>>>>>> the Palm Pre
>>>>>> http://opensource.palm.com/packages.html
>>>>>> While Jack and Portaudio are not.
>>>>> Yes, also, Palm Pre doesn't ship with pre-installed Ardour, Aeolus,
>>>>> Hydrogen or Csound. I really don't see why! /s
>>>>
>>>> Really? No Ardour on the Palm Pre? Now, thank you! I can just 
>>>> cancel my
>>>> order and stick with the Treo which still is a single-tasking 
>>>> system. I
>>>> mean: Hey, Ardour doesn't run on either device.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If/when jack is ported it will be possible to run ardour too. gtk2 
>>> is supported and it is only a matter of time/money for other libs 
>>> and deps to be built out.
>>>
>>> However will it be viable to run jack on any mobile device?  
>>> PulseAudio is designed for mobile devices.
>>
>> It won't be viable for a handy or a toaster, but ... 
>> http://www.indamixx.com/
>>
>
>
> Nice plug.
>
> The original indamixx was a tablet and the latest incarnation is a 
> netbook so while they are both portable devices they are not exactly 
> "mobile devices".

Ah, okay, I translated from English into German without thinking :D, on 
German a 'mobile device' means the same as on English, but the English 
word 'mobile' on German is 'Handy'.

> [snip]
>
> Is it just because audio guys have a bit more artistic temperament 
> than most other developers?

A rhetorical questions is including the answer.

I'm a user and I'm only interested in JACK and ALSA, maybe because I 
haven't the knowledge to realize the advantages of Pulse Audio or maybe 
because it's applicable what I'm thinking, because of my experiences.

If all sides that are involved in rtkit, dbus, pulse audio (or 
completely other issues) discussions would explain there standpoints to 
users, answers might come spontaneous.

If there are different standpoints. Why not asking the users? A user 
most times can't say something about explicit technical issues, but a 
user can give answers about the usage.

I'm 100% sure that there are users with different needs, having 
different opinions and they will argue because of their needs.

Developers are users too, but they are just a handfull off people and 
they are deeply involved in their projects.

Imagine a policeman who's family was killed. Would it be wise to allow 
him to do the investigations?

If I have guests and I like beer, I anyway will ask my guest if they 
want wine or beer.

You should go and ask people in open forums, instead of asking 
developers or even users in closed mailing lists. Maybe forums for audio 
and multimedia users (and users are consumers and producers), not 
especially for Linux users and don't ask them if they want JACK and/ or 
ALSA, ask them what they want to do and what they need to do that.

Just my 2 cents.

Cheers,
Ralf
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Re: [LAD] palm pre [was Re: [ANNOUNCE] Safe real-time on the desktop by default; Desktop/audio RT developers, read this!]

[Ralf Mardorf]

> You should go and ask people in open forums, instead of asking 
> developers or even users in closed mailing lists. Maybe forums for audio 
> and multimedia users (and users are consumers and producers), not 
> especially for Linux users and don't ask them if they want JACK and/ or 
> ALSA, ask them what they want to do and what they need to do that.
>   
A typo ...

if they want JACK/ ALSA and/ or Pulse Audio or what ever

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Re: [LAD] palm pre [was Re: [ANNOUNCE] Safe real-time on thedesktop by default; Desktop/audio RT developers, read this!]

[Ralf Mardorf]

james morris wrote:
> On 24/6/2009, "Patrick Shirkey"  wrote:
>
>   
>> It would be helpful if things that could make a big impact will
>> continued to be discussed within the LAD community. However this is a
>> difficult situation. No matter if the discussions are starting prior to
>> implementation or post implementation the general direction of the
>> arguments tend to be quite emotional.
>>
>> Is it just because audio guys have a bit more artistic temperament than
>> most other developers?
>> 
>
> I don't think this adds much to what has been stated by Fons and others,
> but perhaps it explains a little?
>
> I'm not a hardcore audio developer like most of the guys here, but I've
> been making audio/music/noise, and coding, since the days of 486sx25s
> and windows 3.1. Back then, and for many years after, it was a real
> concern to be able to disable as many irrelevant (to audio) processes in
> the system as possible (as I'm sure you're aware).
>
> Now I have a pretty capable system, but when I want to run RT audio apps
> I still want to disable as many irrelevant processes on the system as I
> can.
>
> For this reason I really dislike the big monolithic desktop environments.
> There are several applications tied into them (some serious, plain
> useful, or just fun) which I'd love to have working but which force me
> to install all sorts of software I really don't want or need - along
> with all sorts of processes running in the background.
>
> So it feels a bit freedom eroding. The choice seems to be between a
> system which 'just works' but which wastes system resources on things
> I don't want, or a system which I have to spend hours setting up,
> constantly have to deal with the idiosyncrasies of, but which is as fast
> and powerful as it could be.
>
> The notions of old, to raise the potential for system resources to be
> only used for the job at hand (ie audio) are still strongly rooted and
> people don't like it when they feel their freedom to use systems in
> this way is threatened by forcing them to install software and have
> running processes they don't want.
>
> James.

I guess (if needed) separating rt and bread-and-butter Linux by having a 
dual-boot is an acceptable solution. A user with nearly no knowledge 
could install a comfortable distro for the everyday desktop environment 
and another for real-time usage. Even if somebody don't have any trouble 
with his Linux install, he might wish to have a safe Linux for 
productions and another Linux to have fun and fun sometimes means to 
risk things, you won't risk for a installation that needs to be stable 
all the time, that's why a dual-boot has also an advantage, if there 
will be a joint venture for distro/ desktop developers and rt 
hardliners. I have a bad mobo and for rt e.g. I need to set irq priority 
for especially the one port where the MIDI is connected to. I don't 
think things like that should be done by the desktop environment. This 
seems to be impossible.
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Re: [LAD] palm pre [was Re: [ANNOUNCE] Safe real-time on thedesktop by default; Desktop/audio RT developers, read this!]

[Ralf Mardorf]

I dunno if you're a coder too, but those words you wrote are the words 
of a user :).

By the way I'm a fan of extremes, I like KDE (only with KWin) ex 3.5.9 
and Ion2, but actually I'm running GNOME and this also has is advantages 
and disadvantages.

Do you agree that a dual or multi boot might be the best solution to fit 
to all needs?

I would interpret your mail this way. You didn't blame any sound server, 
but you make out for which usage you are fine with which sound server. 
Am I wrong?

The 'palm pre' thread is uncoupled from the origin thread, that's why I 
guess it's okay to speak about user needs here, nobody will disturb any 
technical expert knowledge discussion at the original thread.

By the way, an rt-audio distro like 64 Studio often works OOB for 
rt-audio too, not for my hardware, but it is made to fit to many 
hardware combinations.

Thank you for reporting your experiences.

Cheers,
Ralf

James Warden wrote:
> Just a small comment, and then I shut up:
>
> the great thing about linux is its flexibility. I have a few boxes at home 
> doing different things:
> - a multimedia server based on mythtv, NFS and samba
> - a powerful DAW running an RT patched kernel
> - a couple of laptops for AOB (any other business)
>
> For the AOB laptops, it was nice not to do anything once I installed the 
> distro. Things worked OOB, and that was it.
>
> For the DAW or multimedia server, that was another story ... but simply 
> because customized systems require, well, customization. The all-in-one 
> distro is and I think will remain a utopia. 
>
> This said, I recently upgraded my DAW to KDE 4.2 (was 3.5.9 before upgrade) 
> and that automatically installed pulseaudio. I had already fiddled around 
> with pulseaudio about a year ago due to my using VirtualBox (another story). 
> I found pulse's features kinda cool and I quickly understood it was not meant 
> as a replacement or alternative to Jack.  
>
> As of today, my DAW has pulseaudio installed. But all I had to do was:
> - open the KDE system settings 
> - disable ALL sound stuff I could find
>
> So basically, KDE offered me the possibility to not interact at all with the 
> sound layer. It was obviously not a default setting but it was just a few 
> clicks away.
>
> So let me be straight: it should remain like that. 
>
> On average, a user installing e.g. KDE will expect desktop sounds to work 
> (sound notifications, mp3 players, DVD playback, what-not). That's not what I 
> want in my DAW at all but being myself an old linux "power user", I knew that 
> it would do that (experience with artsd). I mean,  how could the KDE 
> installation possibly know that it was to be running on a DAW ?! :D 
> I am glad the desktop config interface allowed me to configure it the way I 
> wanted (no extra special services in the background, no sound system other 
> than what I want for my DAW).  
>
> Now, if things were to change (no longer the possibility to configure e.g. 
> KDE the way I want), I would definitely feel pissed-off and complain on some 
> mailing lists. But let's be also clear: pulseaudio is definitely NOT the 
> worst things that could happen. It works fine on my laptops, I don't need to 
> do anything about it and that's what it was intended for: a generic and 
> multifeatured desktop sound system. But desktops are also used in other 
> contexts (e.g. DAW) and it would really be wise to keep desktop components 
> _optional_ (not only sound system but also visual effects, etc). That's just 
> simple wisdom and i suggest we keep it that way. The same applies to jack. It 
> is a highly specialized tool and should remain so.
>
>
> OK, time to disappear from this discussion.
>
> Cheers,
> J.
>
>
> --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Ralf Mardorf  wrote:
>
>   
>> From: Ralf Mardorf 
>> Subject: Re: [LAD] palm pre [was Re: [ANNOUNCE] Safe real-time on thedesktop 
>> by default; Desktop/audio RT developers, read this!]
>> To: "james morris" 
>> Cc: linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org
>> Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 6:45 AM
>> james morris wrote:
>> 
>>> On 24/6/2009, "Patrick Shirkey" 
>>>   
>> wrote:
>> 
>>>
>>>   
>>>> It would be helpful if things that could make a
>>>> 
>> big impact will
>> 
>>>> continued to be discussed within the LAD
>>>> 
>> community. However this is a
>> 
>>>> difficult situation. No matter if the discussions
>>>> 
>> are starting prior to
>> 
>>>> implementation or post imp

Re: [LAD] RFC: Default discovery paths for LADSPA, LRDF, LV2 and DSSI (and more?)

[Ralf Mardorf]

Chris Cannam wrote:
> Well, I suppose the user might want the older-installed version to
> take priority.

Sorry, if I should miss the thread, but I randomly read the latest mail.

I'm using Linux and Windows and I like the behaviour for VST versions 
(on Windows). Even if an old and new version have the same name, I can 
rename the .dll for an VST on Windows and I have an old version plus the 
newer version with a new name.

For a user this is a good solution to use older versions for older 
projects and the latest version for actual projects.

I would like to have this behaviour for Linux too, because I now changed 
for my DAW to Linux.

The green user should be able to have the possibility by simply changing 
the name of the file, to have as much versions of a plug in, as he needs 
to have.

I might have miss the thread, but the latest mail of this thread seems 
to be about this issue. Sorry if I wrote pure nonsense.
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Re: [LAD] RFC: Default discovery paths for LADSPA, LRDF, LV2 and DSSI (and more?)

[Ralf Mardorf]

Jan Weil wrote:
> (multiple versions of jackd etc.).
>   

For Linux I'm just a user and not a coder, so my input here might not be 
clever, but it's from the sight of a user ;).

If I'm fine with versions of libs, I might use a new Linux install too, 
because for some reasons there might be the need to use also some new 
dependencies, but I still can keep an old Linux installation too, space 
on hard discs isn't expensive these day (and I'm really poor for a 
European).

Assumed that I want to work on an old project with some old DSSIs and 
LADSPAs (until now there seems to be less LV2s) and dependencies still 
would be fine for different versions off plug ins, it would be good if I 
can chose the version.

If I understand it right, it might be that two coders randomly can use 
identical descriptions and the user can run into trouble because of 
this. I guess a coder simply can describe his plug in unique.

Instead of 'compressor', 'compressor_by_coder_x_version_y'. I don't know 
if it's that easy ;), because I don't have knowledge about the 
standards. The names that appear in my hosts are similar to 'my idea', 
e.g. 'C* Blabla' and TAB Blabla', in addition there only seems to be the 
need to add the version.

Isn't it that easy?

Ralf
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Re: [LAD] RFC: Default discovery paths for LADSPA, LRDF, LV2 and DSSI (and more?)

[Ralf Mardorf]

Jeff McClintock wrote:
>>> Windows (i.e. "%ProgramFiles%\LADSPA Plugins\rdf"). ?Not that I
>>> generally build with LRDF support on Windows anyway.
>>>   
>> This makes sense to me, if only it could be made "official"...
>> (windows paths too)
>> 
>
> Windows has official rules for this.  Users are no longer allowed to add
> random files to an application's directory in "/Program Files/Appname".
> Permissions are set to prevent it and that directory is virtualized to
> prevent it.
>  The exception is - Applications can install their own bundled plugins in
> "/Program Files/Appname" at install time only (because the installer has
> elevated privilege).
>
> User installed plugins go in CSIDL_PROGRAM_FILES_COMMON , e.g. typically
> "C:\Program Files\Common Files\LADSPA Plugins..."
>
> Best Regards,
> Jeff McClintock

I need to take a look at my Windows installation, that I will delete, 
because Linux now is fine on my machine, but as far as I remember VSTs 
are in \Blabla\Steinberg\VST or similar to this and a user can rename 
and add what ever he likes to this path AND Cakewalk or what ever, will 
take a look too, to this directory. It might be different for LADSPAs on 
Windows, but there seems to be still an advantage the way VSTs are used.
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Re: [LAD] RFC: Default discovery paths for LADSPA, LRDF, LV2 and DSSI (and more?)

[Ralf Mardorf]

Chris Cannam wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 9:13 PM, Jeff McClintock wrote:
>   
>> Windows has official rules for this.  Users are no longer allowed to add
>> random files to an application's directory in "/Program Files/Appname".
>> 
>
> Oh!  This is news to me -- interesting news too, given that I
> distribute Windows versions of SV without an installer and just expect
> the user to copy it to %ProgramFiles% if they want it to go there, and
> that it only looks in immediate subdirectories of %ProgramFiles% for
> plugins of any sort.
>
> I don't recall anyone complaining to me that they couldn't install
> plugins for it -- maybe this just means nobody is using it?!
>
> Can you point to any documentation for this?  I'd like to know what
> other rules I might be falling afoul of.
>
>   
>> User installed plugins go in CSIDL_PROGRAM_FILES_COMMON , e.g. typically
>> "C:\Program Files\Common Files\LADSPA Plugins..."
>> 
>
> I don't suppose you happen to know whether any Windows-based LADSPA
> hosts are actually using this path?
>
>
> Chris
 I'm going to delete my Windows installation, but if I can help by 
keeping it and you ask me explicit to test some behaviour I will do it.

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Re: [LAD] RFC: Default discovery paths for LADSPA, LRDF, LV2 and DSSI (and more?)

[Ralf Mardorf]

Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> Chris Cannam wrote:
>> On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 9:13 PM, Jeff McClintock 
>> wrote:
>>  
>>> Windows has official rules for this.  Users are no longer allowed to 
>>> add
>>> random files to an application's directory in "/Program Files/Appname".
>>> 
>>
>> Oh!  This is news to me -- interesting news too, given that I
>> distribute Windows versions of SV without an installer and just expect
>> the user to copy it to %ProgramFiles% if they want it to go there, and
>> that it only looks in immediate subdirectories of %ProgramFiles% for
>> plugins of any sort.
>>
>> I don't recall anyone complaining to me that they couldn't install
>> plugins for it -- maybe this just means nobody is using it?!
>>
>> Can you point to any documentation for this?  I'd like to know what
>> other rules I might be falling afoul of.
>>
>>  
>>> User installed plugins go in CSIDL_PROGRAM_FILES_COMMON , e.g. 
>>> typically
>>> "C:\Program Files\Common Files\LADSPA Plugins..."
>>> 
>>
>> I don't suppose you happen to know whether any Windows-based LADSPA
>> hosts are actually using this path?
>>
>>
>> Chris
> I'm going to delete my Windows installation, but if I can help by 
> keeping it and you ask me explicit to test some behaviour I will do it.

Pardon, I need some time to understand that it was ironic, I will be 
quiet now ;) ... sorry.
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Re: [LAD] RFC: Default discovery paths for LADSPA, LRDF, LV2 and DSSI (and more?)

[Ralf Mardorf]

Jeff McClintock wrote:
> On Windows XP, many people run as administrator

Definitive!

> I don't know about LADSPA..but the latest Cubase uses "C:\Program
> Files\Common Files\Steinberg\VST2" for 3rd party plugins.

On my machine it's '/media/disk/Programme/Steinberg/VstPlugins', resp. 
'C:\Programme\Steinberg\VstPlugins' ;) and as I have written before, I 
can make different versions available by just renaming the file, e.g. 
there's a compressor version without 'sse' and another with 'sse', so I 
just added '_sse' to the file name.
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Re: [LAD] help on creating MIDI from linux input events

[Ralf Mardorf]

Renato Budinich wrote:
> Thank you very much, this is interesting, I'll have a look into RtMidi
> and your program. Being that the little I know is C, is it much more
> difficult outputting notes using the alsa api?
>
>
>   
>> Since there is a driver for it, you should be able to use it as an
>> alsa midi device.  
>> 
> uhm, i'm not sure... the driver (snd_usb_caiaq) actually takes care of
> the soundcard built in the pedal, and on the way also makes the buttons
> create keyboard events, and the pedal EV_ABS
>   

Hi :)

I'm not a Linux, neither a C/C++ coder, but the answer here is very 
simple, if the MIDI events (I guess this is what you mean by keyboard 
events) are recognized by Linux, then there seems to be a driver for 
your equipment that's good enough for your needs :). So go on, write a 
simple Linux MIDI tool in C/C++, make it open source and reach in the 
link, maybe some Dino-Assembler-Beings for some microchips (like me) 
will be able to understand how to program for Linux too, if there would 
be some very simple examples, excepted of "Hello world" ;).

Good luck,
Ralf
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Re: [LAD] help on creating MIDI from linux input events

[Ralf Mardorf]

I wrote:
> Subject:  Re: [LAD] help on creating MIDI from linux input events
> Date: Sun, 05 Jul 2009 13:11:35 +0200
> From: Ralf Mardorf
> To:   Renato Budinich
> CC:   linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org
>
>
>
> Renato Budinich wrote:
> > Thank you very much, this is interesting, I'll have a look into RtMidi
> > and your program. Being that the little I know is C, is it much more
> > difficult outputting notes using the alsa api?
> >
> >
> >   
> >> Since there is a driver for it, you should be able to use it as an
> >> alsa midi device.  
> >> 
> > uhm, i'm not sure... the driver (snd_usb_caiaq) actually takes care of
> > the soundcard built in the pedal, and on the way also makes the buttons
> > create keyboard events, and the pedal EV_ABS
> >   
>
> Hi :)
>
> I'm not a Linux, neither a C/C++ coder, but the answer here is very 
> simple, if the MIDI events (I guess this is what you mean by keyboard 
> events) are recognized by Linux, then there seems to be a driver for 
> your equipment that's good enough for your needs :). So go on, write a 
> simple Linux MIDI tool in C/C++, make it open source and reach in
And English also isn't my language ;). Maybe you like to 'hand in' a link.
> the 
> link, maybe some Dino-Assembler-Beings for some microchips (like me) 
> will be able to understand how to program for Linux too, if there would 
> be some very simple examples, excepted of "Hello world" ;).
>
> Good luck,
> Ralf
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Re: [LAD] help on creating MIDI from linux input events

[Ralf Mardorf]

Renato Budinich wrote:
>> I'm not a Linux, neither a C/C++ coder, but the answer here is very 
>> simple, if the MIDI events (I guess this is what you mean by keyboard 
>> events) 
>> 
> nope sorry, i meant EV_KEY events as in linux/input.h - they are
> certainly not MIDI events.

OT a very stupid question:

Keyboard events, similar to events by an USB QWERTY-Keyboard and not an 
musical instrument keyboard ;)? (I can't help, but I like to learn ;))
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Re: [LAD] help on creating MIDI from linux input events

[Ralf Mardorf]

I asked:
> Renato Budinich wrote:
>   
>>> I'm not a Linux, neither a C/C++ coder, but the answer here is very 
>>> simple, if the MIDI events (I guess this is what you mean by keyboard 
>>> events) 
>>> 
>>>   
>> nope sorry, i meant EV_KEY events as in linux/input.h - they are
>> certainly not MIDI events.
>> 
>
> OT a very stupid question:
>
> Keyboard events, similar to events by an USB QWERTY-Keyboard and not an 
> musical instrument keyboard ;)? (I can't help, but I like to learn ;))

Okay, I understand now, I googled and got 'EV_KEY: absolute binary 
results, such as keys and buttons.' :D
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Re: [LAD] help on creating MIDI from linux input events

[Ralf Mardorf]

Renato Budinich wrote:
>> Since there is a driver for it, you should be able to use it as an
>> alsa midi device.

Maybe you can write a matrix that 'translate' keyboard events to 'MIDI' 
events, even if the device isn't recognized as MIDI device, it's 
recognized as a device.
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Re: [LAD] help on creating MIDI from linux input events

[Ralf Mardorf]

Miguel Morales wrote:
>
> Hmm, so you're saying that the device sends keyboard events.  How did 
> you find out which kind of data it sends out? 
> Sending out midi note events is easy with RTMidi, check out the 
> section on midi out section.  It contains a section on MIDI note output. 
>
> I don't have much experience on grabbing keyboard type events using a 
> daemon.  I would recommend finding a cross platform solution.  If not 
> try finding out how to read keyboard events while being a daemon.  
> Like a keylogger I guess. 
>
> C++ isn't much of a jump from C so it should be easy to pick up and go.
>

Is the problem to get the key events? For old computers using other 
kernels, but not Linux, you only need to take a look at the buffer for 
pushed keys. I guess somebody here knows how to fetch events form the 
Linux keyboard buffer, but I don't think that this can be handled on 
real-time.

Without knowledge, I'm just speculating ... will it be possible to use 
Rui's rtirq to give keyboard events the highest priority?
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