Re: [LAD] MIDI program change
On Sat, 4 Sep 2021, Will Godfrey wrote: the worst I've come across in recent times would reset just about everything each time you stop and restart the transport! I think I misunderstood what you were saying. I do get the idea that really bank and program are not really the same thing. A bank change for many old synths was a physical cart change. My 1989 midi book (yes paper) does not even list a bank command. It does list the CCs above that though. The IMA defined CCs at the time were 1,2,4,5,6,7,64,65,66,67,96,97. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] MIDI program change
I take your point about MIDI 2 being able to request info, but for the rest it's ignoring the musician's preferred workflow - and not even allowing them to change the behaviour. For me, the earliest sequencer I used (on the Acorn Archimedes no less) got this right - did exactly what you told it and nothing else. I'll not name names, but the worst I've come across in recent times would reset just about everything each time you stop and restart the transport! I still use a Yamaha for some stuff, and I've always kept it in multi mode. It remembers the full setup over power cycles, so it's switch on and go. If I change project it's a one button change of selected multi, so all bank and program information is set correctly at the start. On the software side it's a state file, and in a long project I might make program and bank changes while running, so I don't need a DAW then resetting all of these to what it considers are the 'right' ones. The argument about looping is a non-starter. Firstly it's extremely rare for me to even think about this, so why am I constrained by what some others do? If I did want it, then I've got enough going on upstairs to plonk the necessary bits in where needed. I'm sorry if this is coming over as a rant, but it seems to me that even in music, free expression is becoming less and less free, and the only people who can do anything about it are those of us producing the code! -- Will J Godfrey https://willgodfrey.bandcamp.com/ http://yoshimi.github.io Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] MIDI program change
On Fri, 3 Sep 2021 16:18:35 -0600 Caelia Chapin wrote: >On Fri, Sep 3, 2021 at 12:37 PM Will Godfrey >wrote: > >> >> I've been trying to get hold of information on MIDI-2. >> > >Trying? Do you know you can register for an account at midi.org and >download the complete specs? I've done it - it's free, no special >qualifications required. Somehow I seemed to have missed that. Thanks for the info. -- Will J Godfrey https://willgodfrey.bandcamp.com/ http://yoshimi.github.io Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] MIDI program change
On Fri, 3 Sep 2021, Will Godfrey wrote: I've been trying to get hold of information on MIDI-2. So far I've only got overviews and limited data format info. But one thing I saw today was definitely a YES! moment. For years, I've been battling against DAWs and sequencers that insist on generating bank messages when none were sent, and then almost always set it to Bank MSB=LSB=0. It is somewhat spelled out for (n)rpn... sending any one byte out of the two (MSB LSB) should just affect that one part of the value. But then they go and say: best practice is to always send a full four event message. So assume the same with program/bank. However, consider that from the start of segment of recorded material the bank and program values have to be initialized to something. So 0/0 it would be. So the controller (keyboard or whatever) sends a program change when asked and that gets recorded to the segment. Now on playback, the program message is sent but for best practice the bank is also sent. The MIDI-1 spec was never 100% clear on that, but the MIDI-2 one says exactly what I've maintained all along. When sending a program change, bank change is optional! It is perfectly valid to want to change instrument on the same bank, and indeed all the hardware synths I've ever owned work in this way. Really this does not help at all. Optional just means the DAW/Sequencer may or may not send the bank at the same time as program. There is still the problem that if the DAW chooses to optionally send the bank and program, the bank will be whatever the default value is unless it is set otherwise. Really, best practice is that the musician sets both bank and program as the first events in a segment. I can't think of a better way even though my "master keyboard", an old DX7, only sends on channel 0 (or 1) and only seems to understand program change and no banks. Assume for a minutr that the DAW/Sequencer does not send a bank unless there is a bank event recorded. The musician moves on to another project and sets the synth bank for that. Then when going back to work on the first project the bank is still miss-set. Better for the musician to make sure both bank and program are properly set. It is great that MIDI allows products from various manufactures to operate together, not so great that some controllers always send bank and others do not because it is optional. What MIDI 2.0 does offer, is ability for the DAW to find out from the synth information like bank that may be useful. MIDI 2.0 is bidirectional not only physically but as a protocol as well. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] MIDI program change
On Fri, Sep 3, 2021 at 12:37 PM Will Godfrey wrote: > > I've been trying to get hold of information on MIDI-2. > Trying? Do you know you can register for an account at midi.org and download the complete specs? I've done it - it's free, no special qualifications required. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
[LAD] MIDI program change
I've been trying to get hold of information on MIDI-2. So far I've only got overviews and limited data format info. But one thing I saw today was definitely a YES! moment. For years, I've been battling against DAWs and sequencers that insist on generating bank messages when none were sent, and then almost always set it to Bank MSB=LSB=0. The MIDI-1 spec was never 100% clear on that, but the MIDI-2 one says exactly what I've maintained all along. When sending a program change, bank change is optional! It is perfectly valid to want to change instrument on the same bank, and indeed all the hardware synths I've ever owned work in this way. -- Will J Godfrey https://willgodfrey.bandcamp.com/ http://yoshimi.github.io Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
