Re: [LAD] MeeGo for better handheld/tablet multimedia? (was Re: Android audio plugins)
Oops... On Monday, July 04, 2011 10:23:36 am Gabriel M. Beddingfield wrote: > > > > Specifically, MeeGo on the Nokia N9 ( > > [SNIP] > devices shipping. (To date it's mostly netbooks and > tablets, but no handhelds.) This will change over time. Oops.. the N9 is a handheld, and is MeeGo. (And yes, seablade... this was a Freudian Slip!) -gabriel ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] MeeGo for better handheld/tablet multimedia? (was Re: Android audio plugins)
On Saturday, July 02, 2011 03:46:30 pm Niels Mayer wrote: > Given all the needed Linux dependencies, and the > difficulties of getting decent audio performance on > Android, what about not using Android and using good ol' > Linux instead? > > Specifically, MeeGo on the Nokia N9 ( I would like to voice my opinion that developing Audio apps for/on MeeGo is an excellent option. The only problem (today) is that there aren't very many MeeGo devices shipping. (To date it's mostly netbooks and tablets, but no handhelds.) This will change over time. MeeGo is a Linux stack... here's the caveats: - There is no JACK, so you can't have a hard dependency on JACK. - You probably won't be able to get RT scheduling. - You must play nice with pulseaudio, and you should avoid using pasuspender as a workaround. I recommend using "the safe alsa subset." - The "MeeGo API" (i.e. Qt and especially QtQuick) is the recommended API to use... but you can still dip into ALSA. There's provisions for things like GTK+, but with limited cross-platform support. No fltk or wxWidgets... and don't use Xlib if you can help it (it works, but doesn't work right). - There is not standard "desktop" environment in MeeGo. Vendors are expected to provide their own custom "user experience." That's the reason why you want to stick with the "MeeGo API" -- so that you'll work on all these different devices. -gabriel ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] MeeGo for better handheld/tablet multimedia? (was Re: Android audio plugins)
On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 8:04 PM, Gabriel M. Beddingfield wrote: > On Sunday, July 03, 2011 04:40:22 am Thomas Vecchione wrote: >> Just to clarify, the N9, and N950(The 'developer' device >> that most of the existing community really wants over >> the n9) isn't running Meego, but instead is running >> Maemo Harmattan, which is primarily Maemo, with the >> Meego development API implemented on top of it. Could >> make a difference in performance and support. > > Do we really need to carry this MeeGo/Harmattan FUD outside > of the MeeGo community? Yes, Harmattan is not a purist form > of MeeGo... but the developer differences aren't all that > great. Actually it isn't FUD because it is true, and isn't meant to spread fear uncertainty or doubt, just to explain that there is an actual difference. You are correct in that if you develop for the Meego API, it shouldn't present to much difference, but it is something that must be kept in mind in my opinion in case you do find a difference. > Yes, this is an excellent reason to not get an N9. It is > the reason why I will not be getting an N9. > > It is not a reason to *NOT* develop for MeeGo. Nokia > doesn't own MeeGo and never has. MeeGo is not dead, nor > dying. You seem to think I was suggesting it was. I was responding directly to the mailings suggesting the N9 itself, nothing more and nothing less. Personally I think there are far better reasons not to get an N9, but to each there own. I don't have much opinions on Meego itself in general right now aside from there isn't really a good strong consumer phone coming out that I know of that is scheduled to use it to my knowledge, which makes me hesitant to spend to much time developing for it personally, a shame as I suspect based off my experience with Maemo that I would like it more. Yes LG supposedly has some in the workings, but I haven't heard much to make me believe they will be out anytime soon at the least. Once again I am not saying don't develop for it, that is a decision up to each individual developer, just that it should be approached with caution at this point IMO before to much time is spent on it. Seablade ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] MeeGo for better handheld/tablet multimedia? (was Re: Android audio plugins)
On 07/02/2011 10:46 PM, Niels Mayer wrote: > Given all the needed Linux dependencies, and the difficulties of > getting decent audio performance on Android, what about not using > Android and using good ol' Linux instead? A small note here. As noted by Jeff, the "Android penetration" is a serious argument in its favor. Now, Android has a somehow deficient internal audio stack, and it's sort of big-brother'ized by Google.. Well, it's not the end of the story. I am often amazed by the dynamism of the Android ROM community. Android is largely open sourced and many developers work on custom ROMs as can be seen on the XDA forums. Every day or so a new ROM or some other system fix pops up. And it's not a marginal phenomenon. In the "Top paid apps", ROM Manager, an app for easy ROM installation/switching, is #11, and IIRC it was #4 a few weeks ago. What this means is that there are plenty of users who customize their system. I know that's precisely why some of them got an Android device instead of an iPhone/iPad. What about audio? For example, Project Voodoo provides audio enhancements, such as input level reduction which can be a problem when recording loud stuff: http://project-voodoo.org/ http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=806195 And I wouldn't be surprised to see a ROM claiming to provide low latency audio on a fair range of popular devices, in the coming weeks or months. A such package could also include some popular Linux software. Ok, it's a bit of a jungle... But it's about freedom too. -- Olivier ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] MeeGo for better handheld/tablet multimedia? (was Re: Android audio plugins)
On Sunday, July 03, 2011 04:40:22 am Thomas Vecchione wrote: > Just to clarify, the N9, and N950(The 'developer' device > that most of the existing community really wants over > the n9) isn't running Meego, but instead is running > Maemo Harmattan, which is primarily Maemo, with the > Meego development API implemented on top of it. Could > make a difference in performance and support. Do we really need to carry this MeeGo/Harmattan FUD outside of the MeeGo community? Yes, Harmattan is not a purist form of MeeGo... but the developer differences aren't all that great. > Not to mention of course that the current CEO of Nokia, > Stephen Elop, is a former MS guy that has insisted that > even if the N9 is a success Nokia won't be producing any > more handsets based around Meego (Or Maemo/Harmattan is Yes, this is an excellent reason to not get an N9. It is the reason why I will not be getting an N9. It is not a reason to *NOT* develop for MeeGo. Nokia doesn't own MeeGo and never has. MeeGo is not dead, nor dying. Yes, if you develop for MeeGo, you'll be an early adopter. If you're developing apps you should target the N9 and/or the AppUp (x86-based) stores. -gabriel ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] MeeGo for better handheld/tablet multimedia? (was Re: Android audio plugins)
On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 4:46 PM, Niels Mayer wrote: > Specifically, MeeGo on the Nokia N9 ( > https://flors.wordpress.com/2011/06/20/nokia-n9-state-of-the-art-of-mobile-linux-and-qt/ > ). I'm sure that it will be easier to create handheld multimedia > applications on an in-production and widely-distributed, supported > product that supports the full stack of libs and development tools > already in use by the LAD community Just to clarify, the N9, and N950(The 'developer' device that most of the existing community really wants over the n9) isn't running Meego, but instead is running Maemo Harmattan, which is primarily Maemo, with the Meego development API implemented on top of it. Could make a difference in performance and support. Not to mention of course that the current CEO of Nokia, Stephen Elop, is a former MS guy that has insisted that even if the N9 is a success Nokia won't be producing any more handsets based around Meego (Or Maemo/Harmattan is the common understanding) and instead will be running Windows Phone 7, to the effect of he has even 'leaked' videos of nearly identical hardware running WP7 with the only conceivable reason to most people is to help ensure that the Maemo/Harmattan N9 or even Meego is not a success. Whether the latter part of that is the real reason or not is not certain but I haven't come up with a better reason either at this point. Seablade ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] MeeGo for better handheld/tablet multimedia? (was Re: Android audio plugins)
On Jul 2, 2011, at 10:46 PM, Niels Mayer wrote: > Given all the needed Linux dependencies, and the difficulties of > getting decent audio performance on Android, what about not using > Android and using good ol' Linux instead? > > Specifically, MeeGo on the Nokia N9 ( > https://flors.wordpress.com/2011/06/20/nokia-n9-state-of-the-art-of-mobile-linux-and-qt/ > ). I'm sure that it will be easier to create handheld multimedia > applications on an in-production and widely-distributed, supported > product that supports the full stack of libs and development tools > already in use by the LAD community > > .. > > Fortunately, a bunch of interesting multimedia projects will be > getting a Nokia N950 to develop applications for the upcoming Nokia N9 > ( see also > http://shootspeak.com/2011/06/24/nokia-n9-extra-facts-tidbits-updates/ > ). > > The following are excerpted from > http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Community_device_program/Nokia#Accepted > as of July 2 2011: > > -- Porting Maesynth and Maelophone from N900 Python to QML and C++. > Stress testing the new Qt Game Enabler to see if we finally have low > latency audio support in Qt. Will also look to see if we can get midi > sample support via Wild Midi or equivalent. > > -- Porting FunkeySynth, a MeeGo Tablet synthesizer to Harmattan > http://sandst1.wordpress.com/ > > -- Develop an audio recording application with geo-location support, > plus other applications to improve personal productivity utilising the > Harmattan notification/event view. > > -- Develop FM RDS applications with focus in the new standards from > RadioDNS like the RadioVIS (partly based in the already existent the > N900-fmvis http://code.google.com/p/n900-fmvis/). I'm a member of a > university radio station (Radio Muda FM, 88.5MHz) and my plan is to > develop "real life" radio station applications. You may be interested in "airtime" http://www.sourcefabric.org/en/products/airtime_overview/ > I'll also rewrite an application I did for audio streaming, darknow (a > gui for darkice, http://darksnow.radiolivre.org) which is an icecast2 > client, and also write an audio/video icecast2 client (based in a > software I did called theorur, http://theorur.sarava.org), all using > QT. Theorur is a GUI for Ogg/Theora streaming, written using gtk2, under GLPv2, by Rafael Diniz. http://wiki.theartcollider.org/tools/qiph is a thin QT frontend to ffmpeg2theora & oggfwd - source as well as binaries for OSX, win32 and GNU/Linux are avail for download. > -- Porting XBMC + MeeGo TV stuff + doing audio continuums using pulseaudio. > > -- Creating a Libre.fm radio client and porting Jokosher to small > screen devices. > > -- Meex, a portable DJing application http://jenkins.vitaminj.co.uk/job/meex/ > > -- Porting Amarok to tablets and handsets running MeeGo/Harmattan. > > -- Developing an audio player to access to more than 47 000 webradios > referenced on AOL shoutcast (by name, genre, current track) > > -- Panucci - Resuming audiobook and podcast player > > -- http://mediadownloader.cz.cc/?page_id=2 > > -- LinuxMCE is a next generation smart home platform encompassing > media, home automation, telecom, and security features. > http://www.linuxmce.org/ > > -- Porting Flumotion an open source streaming solution to Harmattan > taking advantage of the hardware encoding and the camera > > -- magnus-plus photo: an application that combines a camera-based > magnifier with more advanced image processing techniques > > -- Photographer's application suite (SnapGo, currently) to include > feature like a light meter and GPS track recording. > > -- And last, but not least, I'm Looking forward to getting mine soon. > :-) [For: http://wiki.meego.com/tubelet-and-cutetube-port and > http://code.google.com/p/ytd-meego/wiki/CitizenJournalismWithYoutubeDirectForMeego > ] > sounds like you'll be busy for a while :) have fun, robin > Niels > http://nielsmayer.com > > PS: As long as floating-point limited CPU's (ARM) are the norm among > mobile processors, there may be a final calling for really complicated > audio synthesis to be done entirely with integer arithmetic. Which may > necessitate a different and more monolithic architecture -- one where > everything is done/controled in&by the application itself, as opposed > to using jack. Given the limited screen real estate available, how > much can you expect to successfully control and mix simultaneously > anyways? > > PPS: The successful apps figure out dedicated gestural/haptic/vocal > interfaces to control all the knobs-and-dials underneath, e.g.. > http://smule.com/ 's http://ocarina.smule.com/ (see > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHtCAAj8jFI ). > > PPPS: speaking of having a complete "Linux" stack , what about WebOS > and the HP Touchpad? http://www.wired.com/reviews/2011/06/hp-touchpad/ tl;dr > ___ > Linux-audio-dev mailing list > Linux-audio-dev@lists.linux
Re: [LAD] MeeGo for better handheld/tablet multimedia? (was Re: Android audio plugins)
Just so that we're clear, absolutely NOTHING stops JACK supporting integer audio formats. The code required to add it is measured in the tens of lines, not even hundreds. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
[LAD] MeeGo for better handheld/tablet multimedia? (was Re: Android audio plugins)
Given all the needed Linux dependencies, and the difficulties of getting decent audio performance on Android, what about not using Android and using good ol' Linux instead? Specifically, MeeGo on the Nokia N9 ( https://flors.wordpress.com/2011/06/20/nokia-n9-state-of-the-art-of-mobile-linux-and-qt/ ). I'm sure that it will be easier to create handheld multimedia applications on an in-production and widely-distributed, supported product that supports the full stack of libs and development tools already in use by the LAD community .. Fortunately, a bunch of interesting multimedia projects will be getting a Nokia N950 to develop applications for the upcoming Nokia N9 ( see also http://shootspeak.com/2011/06/24/nokia-n9-extra-facts-tidbits-updates/ ). The following are excerpted from http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Community_device_program/Nokia#Accepted as of July 2 2011: -- Porting Maesynth and Maelophone from N900 Python to QML and C++. Stress testing the new Qt Game Enabler to see if we finally have low latency audio support in Qt. Will also look to see if we can get midi sample support via Wild Midi or equivalent. -- Porting FunkeySynth, a MeeGo Tablet synthesizer to Harmattan http://sandst1.wordpress.com/ -- Develop an audio recording application with geo-location support, plus other applications to improve personal productivity utilising the Harmattan notification/event view. -- Develop FM RDS applications with focus in the new standards from RadioDNS like the RadioVIS (partly based in the already existent the N900-fmvis http://code.google.com/p/n900-fmvis/). I'm a member of a university radio station (Radio Muda FM, 88.5MHz) and my plan is to develop "real life" radio station applications. I'll also rewrite an application I did for audio streaming, darknow (a gui for darkice, http://darksnow.radiolivre.org) which is an icecast2 client, and also write an audio/video icecast2 client (based in a software I did called theorur, http://theorur.sarava.org), all using QT. -- Porting XBMC + MeeGo TV stuff + doing audio continuums using pulseaudio. -- Creating a Libre.fm radio client and porting Jokosher to small screen devices. -- Meex, a portable DJing application http://jenkins.vitaminj.co.uk/job/meex/ -- Porting Amarok to tablets and handsets running MeeGo/Harmattan. -- Developing an audio player to access to more than 47 000 webradios referenced on AOL shoutcast (by name, genre, current track) -- Panucci - Resuming audiobook and podcast player -- http://mediadownloader.cz.cc/?page_id=2 -- LinuxMCE is a next generation smart home platform encompassing media, home automation, telecom, and security features. http://www.linuxmce.org/ -- Porting Flumotion an open source streaming solution to Harmattan taking advantage of the hardware encoding and the camera -- magnus-plus photo: an application that combines a camera-based magnifier with more advanced image processing techniques -- Photographer's application suite (SnapGo, currently) to include feature like a light meter and GPS track recording. -- And last, but not least, I'm Looking forward to getting mine soon. :-) [For: http://wiki.meego.com/tubelet-and-cutetube-port and http://code.google.com/p/ytd-meego/wiki/CitizenJournalismWithYoutubeDirectForMeego ] Niels http://nielsmayer.com PS: As long as floating-point limited CPU's (ARM) are the norm among mobile processors, there may be a final calling for really complicated audio synthesis to be done entirely with integer arithmetic. Which may necessitate a different and more monolithic architecture -- one where everything is done/controled in&by the application itself, as opposed to using jack. Given the limited screen real estate available, how much can you expect to successfully control and mix simultaneously anyways? PPS: The successful apps figure out dedicated gestural/haptic/vocal interfaces to control all the knobs-and-dials underneath, e.g.. http://smule.com/ 's http://ocarina.smule.com/ (see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHtCAAj8jFI ). PPPS: speaking of having a complete "Linux" stack , what about WebOS and the HP Touchpad? http://www.wired.com/reviews/2011/06/hp-touchpad/ ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
