Re: [linux-audio-dev] prof multitrack studio
Hi, > what could be a Gimp for audio. A montage tool with effects. (do you see my > subliminal exhortation toward Glame people ;) We're working on it, but as always it's a matter of time and money :-) As for MIDI support, I'd like to get into it, but I'm still missing some equipment like a Masterkeyboard and stuff to experiment with. Furthermore my audio hardware or the drivers or both is just giving me the creeps... And purchasing a Hammerfall, an AD converter, a Masterkeyboard, ... seems to become a little bit expensive... That's probably the reason why companies charge a lot of money for software, in Open Source World it all takes a bit longer. All in all it's a hobby, at least for me :) Cheers, Mag -- For years a secret shame destroyed my peace-- I'd not read Eliot, Auden or MacNiece. But now I think a thought that brings me hope: Neither had Chaucer, Shakespeare, Milton, Pope. -- Justin Richardson.
Re: [linux-audio-dev] prof multitrack studio
You said on LAD: >The upside of >going the PCDAW route that I may never have to deal with the hassles >of upgrading from one dedicated HDR to another. The downside is that >I'd need to build my DAW around a laptop if I wanted anything like the >portability of a Korg D16. I have been seriously researching the viability of using a notebook as a DAW over the past two years. What I have come to believe is that Notebooks won't be fully functional for serious audio recording for a couple more years. I base this on HDD specs, amount of RAM, screen size, available ports... Not to mention the hassle of peripherals like scsi hdd, cd R/RW... What I have ended up doing is custom build my own portable. I have found that a PIV motherboard, a 300 watt power box, a scsi cd R/RW, 2-3 HDDs and a 15" tft screen (stripped down to bare minimum) will fit into hand luggage suitcase with wheels. I haven't weighed it yet but I don't think it will be over 6-7 kgs. All this still leaves room for all the cables and a couple of mics. The only sticking point is cost. About US$3500 for everything. However I can now buy a couple of Hammerfalls for the same price I would have spent on a PowerPC that wouldn't even have a scsi hdd, cd R/RW. I can also upgrade things a lot more easily. If anyone is interested in finding out more I am in Korea for the next 6 months or so and while I'm here I can get access to very cheap hardware. By the end of August my business will be able to take credit transactions (via internet). I can custom build these little suckers for interested people and all going well will even install Ardour for you. I had it running last week but Mandrake 8.0 kindly provided gcc-2.96 in the distro which causes problems with c++ apps so upgrading to 3.0 has broken the install procedure. I already have one pro muso from Australia who wants one. Of course I'm happy to provide I few design specs for people who would rather do it themselves. When I get my scsi adapter this week I'll put up some photo's at Boost Hardware and provide the full tech specs. -- Patrick Shirkey - Manager Boost Hardware. Importing Korean Computer Products to New Zealand. Http://www.boosthardware.com - Cool toys to fufill every geeks fantasy.
Re: [linux-audio-dev] prof multitrack studio
This takes us off topic. I'm leaving it here so that the development folks can see how the sausage is being made... > I guess I am wondering what methods/practices do others use when creating > music that has audio and midi requirements. It would probably be good to > see what people 'like' in a tool, what they 'dislike'. I'm just getting up to critical mass and the ability to get things down. I have this: Oberheim MC2000EX 88 key controller. I yanked the OEM card and installed a Yamaha DB50XG. This is my "melodic" input device and main MIDI tone generator. Akai MPC 2000 XL Sequencer/Sampling Drum machine. It's got a SCSI port with SyJet, CDROM and Zip. The Zip is used for moving wav files in and out of the Linux box. It's the brains of the operation. I've never been able to get with the on-screen model of sequencing - maybe because there's to midi-seq-mode in emacs ;-). My MPC has the SMPTE chip installed - it's a pity there's no support for the SMPTE on the MQX-32M. I've got one and it was a lot cheaper than the chip for the MPC. Yamaha QY70 portable sequencer. Used to be my main sequencer but the size and lack of back light make it hard to work with. Currently only used as a secondary XG tone generator. Tascam 424 4-track. Clean, realiable and good enough for my purposes. Once I get some more room to spread out I'll probably rig a big beefy machine running Ardour as a dedicated DAW to replace it. Then again the Yamaha 4416 is just *so* pretty. Mackie 1402-VLZPro Mixer. Mix from most of the stuff goes here. This is also the console for mixdown. (picking up today) Electrix WarpFactory (Vocoder), FilterFactory and MO-FX. Digitech GFX-1 Twin Tube guitar preamp. Production starts with a basic drum track using one of the Akai kits - the OEM CDROM has a mountain of them. Bass, pad and other synth tracks are added with little or no CC stuff on 'em. The MPC has 64 tracks so that several takes can be done to get the CC data right on the parts. The Electrix gear is automatable by MIDI so I can ride controls on the effects and record the results to the MPC, again doing alternate takes as needed. I use the MPC to stripe track 4 on the Tascam. From here on out the sequenced parts chase the transport on the tape. Being a rank amateur I find this to be very entertaining. I record guitar and vocal parts dry to tape with the MIDI mix out of the Mackie and the effects showing up in my phones. Again the vocoder and delay are MIDI reordable to I can do alternate takes of effect knob twidling into the sequencer. I only have three tracks to play with on the tape, but there is enough room to track a guitar part, a vocal part and a mono mix with effects from the MIDI side if I need to use the same effects processors for other stuff during mixdown. Without this mono mix I can track multiple guitar parts. Without a vocoder there'd be no vocals from this shop ;-). Mixdown goes out from the Tascam into the Mackie with all the other stuff. For the first go round it's going direct to a little Creative Labs MP3 Jukebox that can record 16/44.1 stereo to WAV. That goes up via USB to a windows box, down to Zip and over to the Linux box for encoding and publication. At least that's the plan. By this evening all of the parts will be here. All of the testing and training I've needed to do are coming along nicely - tutorials from the sospubs and futurenet folks in the UK have been indispensable. Production in earnest starts the first week of September. I'm sticking with this config until I get a dozen or so pieces out of the way and get a good understanding of what's what. The recording side *is* the weakest link. I'm planning on moving to bigger space next spring which will allow me to replace the recording back-end with a DAW built around something like the MM Delta 1010 (MOTU 828? :-(). At that time I'll largely be recommendations from this group that drives how I put it all together. The upside of going the PCDAW route that I may never have to deal with the hassles of upgrading from one dedicated HDR to another. The downside is that I'd need to build my DAW around a laptop if I wanted anything like the portability of a Korg D16. Sorry for hogging bandwidth, ccb -- Charles C. Bennett, Jr. VA LiNUX Systems Systems Engineer, Northeast US 25 Burlington Mall Rd., Suite 300 +1 617 543-6513 Burlington, MA 01803-4145 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.valinux.com
Re: [linux-audio-dev] prof multitrack studio
> As nobody did mention GLAME yet: GLAME has a audio file editor component I'm using Linux for pre-production with an Akai MPC2000XL. I've been using GLAME. Much to my amazement it was able to yank in all 94.4 MB of "Siberian Khatru" and allowed me to extract my samples without crashing. I now have "Jon Anderson Hits" (as in "orchestra hits") in my MPC (among other things). I haven't tried to edit from "Close to the Edge" but all 197.6 MB loads up... I need to look at the others. I need something that can figure out that I'm looking at music at 117bpm, let me set the time signature and the length of the anacrusis on the first measure and autoslice to the measure or beat level. ccb -- Charles C. Bennett, Jr. VA LiNUX Systems Systems Engineer, Northeast US 25 Burlington Mall Rd., Suite 300 +1 617 543-6513 Burlington, MA 01803-4145 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.valinux.com
Re: [linux-audio-dev] prof multitrack studio
On Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 09:21:14AM -0400, Richard C. Burnett wrote: > I guess I am wondering what methods/practices do others use when creating > music that has audio and midi requirements. It would probably be good to > see what people 'like' in a tool, what they 'dislike'. I tend to record into a multitrack tool, using the MIDI clock (or whatever) to sync any external MIDI kit, and record the dry audio output of the hardware. Once I have the audio recorded I can process it with whatever I like, if I need to use an external effect twice I just record the output of it next to one of the dry tracks. With plugins I usually make one pass with and recorded the output as I didn't trust my machine (under windows) to run glitch free every time. I sucessfully used ardour to do this a few times (probably without MIDI though, I don't remeber). - Steve
Re: [linux-audio-dev] prof multitrack studio
I run my Korg Triton with Cubase. What I like to do is create all my midi tracks first, with no extra effects on them. This way I can work with the song and arrange the parts (I can get 16 channels out of the Korg). Once I am done and satisfied (for now) I save a copy as a backup, then each track I use either a 2101, a Pod Pro or the built in effects of the Korg (Which are INCREDIBLE to say the least) and I record the track through my Delta 1010. Then I mute the original midi track and move it into a folder in case I need to make later changes too it and resample it. This is what I hope to use ardour and another midi program for in the future. One of the things I like about Cubase is that midi editor is like the audio editor of samplitude. You can create little segments (parts) and copy and move around with REAL EASE, unlike CakeWalk (before Sonar). I guess I am wondering what methods/practices do others use when creating music that has audio and midi requirements. It would probably be good to see what people 'like' in a tool, what they 'dislike'. Rick [SNIPED REST OF POST] > Concerning the integration of midi and audio, it appeared to me very important > until recently. I have some midi equipments but one can do so much with audio > editing with just some samples and a bunch of plugins that i find now very > limited to compose a track with just my midi synths. But sure, it is best to > have the both world. > Linium > > ++---+ | T a l i t y | +--+ | ++ ++-+| | | Richard Burnett |+-+| | | Senior Design Engineer +---+ ++ | | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | | | | | | | Phone: 919.380.3014 | | | Fax: 919.380.3903 | | | ++
Re: [linux-audio-dev] prof multitrack studio
On Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 05:50:00PM -0400, Paul Davis wrote: > its debatable whether the Windows/MacOS-world solution (the host > provides the MIDI info) is better than the easier-to-accomplish one > (the plugin connects to the various MIDI data sources, and gets the > MIDI data itself). if the MIDI data source is the ALSA sequencer, this > can work well, for example, since the sequencer can multiplex data. But the MIDI data may be "virtual", ie. just representing the tempo map of the app, in which case the plugin can't get at it. If there was a way to get this then it would be an OK solution yes. Anyone want to bring up the subject of LADSPA GUIs again ;) I assume the alsa sequncer allows multiple opens? - Steve
Re: [linux-audio-dev] prof multitrack studio
On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Frank Neumann wrote: > > Hi Jay, Ts wrote: > > [..] > > > Paul Davis presented Ardour as an equivalant of the Mackie hardware > > > recorder which complement their digital mixing desk. > > > It seems to me that Ardour is nice for this task but what kind of > > > editing does it offer? > > > > An interesting comment, considering that just earlier I was thinking > > it would be nice to have a decent audio file editor for Linux, similar > > to Wavelab or Sound Forge. > > Under Linux, I tend to choose from either Sweep (sweep.sourceforge.net), > gnoise (gnoise.sourceforge.net) or audacity (audacity.sourceforge.net), > where the latter seems to be the most active one right now, and also the > one (IMHO) with the most comfortable user interface. I have been using > it to extract some 30 samples from a large binary file, and it went > pretty easily and fast. The version I was using then still crashed > sometimes, but CVS access is possible, and a lot of changes have > happened since then. As nobody did mention GLAME yet: GLAME has a audio file editor component that is capable of handling large files, unlimited (well, configure that) undo/redo and has an at least usable user interface. Its functionality is at least comparable to those of Sweep and gnoise (I dont know audiacity) and its stable (the wave editing component - at least, we dont get it crashing, others might). Try out the 0.5.2 snapshot. Richard. -- Richard Guenther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> WWW: http://www.tat.physik.uni-tuebingen.de/~rguenth/ The GLAME Project: http://www.glame.de/
Re: [linux-audio-dev] prof multitrack studio
Hi Jay, Ts wrote: [..] > > Paul Davis presented Ardour as an equivalant of the Mackie hardware > > recorder which complement their digital mixing desk. > > It seems to me that Ardour is nice for this task but what kind of > > editing does it offer? > > An interesting comment, considering that just earlier I was thinking > it would be nice to have a decent audio file editor for Linux, similar > to Wavelab or Sound Forge. Under Linux, I tend to choose from either Sweep (sweep.sourceforge.net), gnoise (gnoise.sourceforge.net) or audacity (audacity.sourceforge.net), where the latter seems to be the most active one right now, and also the one (IMHO) with the most comfortable user interface. I have been using it to extract some 30 samples from a large binary file, and it went pretty easily and fast. The version I was using then still crashed sometimes, but CVS access is possible, and a lot of changes have happened since then. Just my 0,02 frames, Frank
Re: [linux-audio-dev] prof multitrack studio
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>you write: >> > Also, for various >> > reasons, many plugins must have MIDI timing and other MIDI information. >> > I don't know of any Linux applications that pretend to solve this issue. >> >> I don't see about the Midi timing issue for plugins ? > >I am referring to MIDI timecode or MIDI clock data. Effect plugins >might use the MIDI clock for a tempo-based delay, for example. > >Software synths obviously need to get MIDI information, including >Note On/Off events, controllers, program changes, and such. its debatable whether the Windows/MacOS-world solution (the host provides the MIDI info) is better than the easier-to-accomplish one (the plugin connects to the various MIDI data sources, and gets the MIDI data itself). if the MIDI data source is the ALSA sequencer, this can work well, for example, since the sequencer can multiplex data. --p
Re: [linux-audio-dev] prof multitrack studio
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>you write: >> >> >Slightly oversimplified, >> > >> >Ardor is a multitrack recorder. >> >> slightly oversimplified :) >> >> Ardour is a Digital Audio Workstation. It supports >> multitrack+multichannel recording, editing and mixing, as well as >> things like plugin support, MMC and MTC sync. > >I thought I said that. :-) Not really. The iZ RADAR 24, for example, is a recorder that doesn't provide any (real) support for editing. likewise an ADAT recorder. they certainly don't support mixing. >Honestly, I would not want to start in on the design of a software >synth or effect plugin without LAAGA having good MIDI support. Don't hold your breath. LAAGA will never have "good MIDI support", just as it doesn't have "good audio support". The only sense in which these things can be supported by LAAGA are slightly optimized buffer allocation and handling strategies. It also has builtin support for audio port data mixing, but this can be added at run-time by a client for other data types. mixing MIDI data streams is extremely hazardous anyway :) Other than that, there is no support within LAAGA for any particular data type at all. Thats not its job. It provides mechanism, not policy or protocol support. Two LAAGA clients could freely exchange MIDI data to their hearts content, and LAAGA would have no more idea of what they were doing than if they were trading p0rn, scanned pokemon images or 64kbps MP3's of britney. LAAGA is almost strictly content neutral. The only thing missing right now is a shared memory buffer allocation mechanism that can ensure that the buffers are mapped at the same address in each LAAGA client. --p
Re: [linux-audio-dev] prof multitrack studio
> > Also, for various > > reasons, many plugins must have MIDI timing and other MIDI information. > > I don't know of any Linux applications that pretend to solve this issue. > > I don't see about the Midi timing issue for plugins ? I am referring to MIDI timecode or MIDI clock data. Effect plugins might use the MIDI clock for a tempo-based delay, for example. Software synths obviously need to get MIDI information, including Note On/Off events, controllers, program changes, and such. - Jay Ts
Re: [linux-audio-dev] prof multitrack studio
Le Thu, 19 Jul 2001, vous avez écrit : > Slightly oversimplified, > Ardor is a multitrack recorder. > Wavelab is an audio file editor. (That has limited recording capabilities.) Since version 3.0. Wavelab is a multitrack editor too. You can check Steinberg site for complete features list or a free review on the web site of Sound on Sound (march 2000). > Samplitude is a multitrack audio recorder. (No MIDI recording or editing.) It has now basic midi recording and editing. But don't expect to do much with the midi editor. Samplitude is more than a multitrack audiorecorder. It is an increadible full featured multitrack editor and can edit separate waveforms as well. > AFAIK, there is nothing like any of those on Linux yet, and Paul > Davis seems to not care much about adding MIDI support to either > Ardour or LAAGA. Midi was not in my mind in my precedant mail. I know that Logic/Cubase integrate a mutlitrack editor. And it is the path that MusE on Linux is getting. So there is at least one contender. > What I *am* concerned about is that in many (most?) modern studio > environments, MIDI sequencing is essential, and it is very important > to integrate that with the audio recording process. Also, for various > reasons, many plugins must have MIDI timing and other MIDI information. > I don't know of any Linux applications that pretend to solve this issue. > > Jay Ts > [EMAIL PROTECTED] I don't see about the Midi timing issue for plugins ? Concerning the integration of midi and audio, it appeared to me very important until recently. I have some midi equipments but one can do so much with audio editing with just some samples and a bunch of plugins that i find now very limited to compose a track with just my midi synths. But sure, it is best to have the both world. A friend has made an experimental track with CoolEdit Pro for a contest: http://geoffroy.montel.free.fr/mp3/Ombres%20bercez%20moi%20(radiomix%202001)%20v1.0.mp3 It is very experimental but shows well the creative possibilities of this kind of tools. Linium
Re: [linux-audio-dev] prof multitrack studio
> > >Slightly oversimplified, > > > >Ardor is a multitrack recorder. > > slightly oversimplified :) > > Ardour is a Digital Audio Workstation. It supports > multitrack+multichannel recording, editing and mixing, as well as > things like plugin support, MMC and MTC sync. I thought I said that. :-) > LAAGA already has implicit support for any port type, including > MIDI. MIDI is not, however, a builtin port type. Ah, thanks for reminding me; I had forgotten about that. I guess I'm just a little frustrated about things. Or maybe "demanding" would be the more accurate term. ;-) Honestly, I would not want to start in on the design of a software synth or effect plugin without LAAGA having good MIDI support. But I can't complain, since I'm too busy off doing other things to be of any real help. Hey, at least I finally got around to installing the ALSA drivers (just to show you how far from the leading/bleeding/cutting edge I am here at the moment) and it works! Cool. And just to put in a little plug, the TK-707 Rhythm Composer - the Linux app that made me install ALSA - seems to work and may be useful in my studio. Imagine, actually making real music with Linux. My head is spinning. :) Cheers, Jay Ts
Re: [linux-audio-dev] prof multitrack studio
* Previously Jay Ts ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > An interesting comment, considering that just earlier I was thinking > it would be nice to have a decent audio file editor for Linux, similar > to Wavelab or Sound Forge. I hope you will try Audacity (http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~music/audacity/). I am one of the developers for that project. It is cross-platform to Linux/FreeBSD/Windows/MacOS (9 and X), using the toolkit wxWindows (http://www.wxwindows.org). It includes the following features: o unlimited tracks o unlimited undo (undo and redo are very fast) o envelope editing o import wav, aiff, au, ircam, mp3, ogg vorbis; export all but ogg vorbis o several plugins (hopefully with more on the way) o spectrogram viewer I meant to delay announcing it until our next release which is imminent, so please use the sources from CVS (CVSROOT=:pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/cvsroot/audacity, module=audacity). It should compile out-of-the-box if you have wxWindows installed. We would very much appreciate any comments or suggestions. Joshua -- Joshua Haberman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: [linux-audio-dev] prof multitrack studio
There are also a few other decent apps. Check out sound.condorrow.net. SND is pretty good, as is DAP, although DAp has trouble with large files. Some people like Ecasound, though I've not tried it. -dgm On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Jarno Seppanen wrote: > Linium <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > For me this kind of softwares is a real gift for anyone working with audio. > > A track contains "clips", each of them has vector envelopes for > > volume/pan/whatever parameter automatable. > > Hi, for Linux there's also Mix, which can do partly what you described, from > http://gige.xdv.org/pages/mix/ > -- > -Jarno >
Re[2]: [linux-audio-dev] prof multitrack studio
Sorry for the OT, but I thought that WaveLab is not a multitrack tool, but more of a wave editing solution, like for putting together samples for a sampler, and I thought that Cubase VST was used for multitracking. I have used samplitude VERY much, but, I use alot of midi too. The problem using samplitude and another tool for midi sequencing is that there are latency problems and it can really screw up a song. With Cubase, I do both in the same tool and the problem is not as bad. Though I have seen some MIDI note problems with my 300Mhz machine. I hope that with this LAAGA stuff, and low-latency work, that finally I can switch to linux and do both :) Rick Thursday, July 19, 2001, you wrote: L> Le Thu, 19 Jul 2001, vous avez écrit : >> > delire wrote: >> > >> > i use pd [Pure Data] alot but miss the extensive [64 track] mutitracking / wave >editing facility of cool edit pro [the only reason i maintain a windows partition at >all. is there any design to >> make >> > a professional scale multitrack studio / wave editor in the future? >> > >> > very pleased this list exist btw ; ) >> > >> > de| >> > >> Sure, there is. It's named 'ardour' and is developped by Paul Davis. >> >> Check http://sourceforge.net/projects/ardour/ >> >> fd L> Hello, L> I am in the same situation, using PD and a windows multitrack/editor. L> I had the opporunity to test Wavelab3.0 and Samplitude L> which are 2 multitracks editor. L> Samplitude is far more complete, it is the same than Wavelab plus a L> traditionnal mixer (insert/aux). I have not yet tryed CoolEdit Pro L> but I think it belongs more or less to the same category. L> For me this kind of softwares is a real gift for anyone working with audio. L> A track contains "clips", each of them has vector envelopes for L> volume/pan/whatever parameter automatable. L> The volume enveloppe is generally the one you use the most but you can choose L> what appears in superposition of the wave data. With just one mouse click you L> manage a fade-in or lower the volume of a given clip. It is very visual since L> you constantly see the setting through the enveloppes for each clip. This and L> the fact that you have plenty of tracks, hey it is a multitrack editor, give you L> what could be a Gimp for audio. A montage tool with effects. (do you see my L> subliminal exhortation toward Glame people ;) L> One of the features I like the most on Samplitude and Wavelab is the fact that L> each clip composing a track has a menu allowing to insert plugins L> just for the clip. The plugins are then turned on/off along the playing, it L> saves some cpu power. L> This visual clip oriented editing is a real improvement and let you do L> increadible things very fast. L> Paul Davis presented Ardour as an equivalant of the Mackie hardware recorder L> which complement their digital mixing desk. L> It seems to me that Ardour is nice for this task but what kind of editing does L> it offer ? L> Has ardour per clip plugins and vector automation ? Could it be used by L> people more on the post-production/ creative montage side of things ? L> Linium
Re: [linux-audio-dev] prof multitrack studio
I use sweep and broadcast 2000, sweep to do detailed editing of induvidual waveforms, and then bcast to line them up. Both sweep and bcast use ladspa plugins, so I get access to all the same effects from either program. --- delire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > i use pd [Pure Data] alot but miss the extensive [64 > track] mutitracking / wave editing facility of cool > edit pro [the only reason i maintain a windows > partition at all. is there any design to make a > professional scale multitrack studio / wave editor > in the future? > > very pleased this list exist btw ; ) > > de| > > > > _ / The fact that plants experience scale as a kind > of dermatitis is not necessarily indication of a > relationship between disease and 'scientific > perspective' \ _ > = This message was sent by Brian W. Redfern Have a nice day :=) __ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
Re: [linux-audio-dev] prof multitrack studio
>Slightly oversimplified, > >Ardor is a multitrack recorder. slightly oversimplified :) Ardour is a Digital Audio Workstation. It supports multitrack+multichannel recording, editing and mixing, as well as things like plugin support, MMC and MTC sync. >AFAIK, there is nothing like any of those on Linux yet, and Paul >Davis seems to not care much about adding MIDI support to either >Ardour or LAAGA. I have not said that, strictly speaking. I have considered integrating MidiMountain into Ardour. However, I prefer a different solution (see below for more details). LAAGA already has implicit support for any port type, including MIDI. MIDI is not, however, a builtin port type. My sample implementation doesn't fully work for non-builtins right now, but thats an implementation issue, not a design one. I won't fix it till there is more of a consensus around the API design (which seems to be emerging, but Richard Furse is holding out on us, and since he was the designer of the quite successful LADSPA API, I think it would be respectful to see what he has to contribute). >> Paul Davis presented Ardour as an equivalant of the Mackie hardware >> recorder which complement their digital mixing desk. That was the original design goal of Ardour, and it accomplished that goal about a year ago. However, there is very little point in recording stuff to disk if you can't edit it, and there are/were no audiofile editors for Linux that could handle the recordings that Ardour produced. This was because of some combination of: 1) they store data as 32 bit floats (quite legal for WAV, but unhandled by 98% of all apps) 2) they store data in a 1 mono-file-per-channel arrangement rather than in interleaved format. this makes editing+playback more efficient in the long run. 3) they are too big. these are real *recordings*, not just short snips of audio data. try using snd or sweep on a 1GB audio file sometime, and you'll get the idea. As a result, Ardour has had to evolve into a fully-fledged DAW in order to be useful. >> It seems to me that Ardour is nice for this task but what kind of >> editing does it offer? > >An interesting comment, considering that just earlier I was thinking >it would be nice to have a decent audio file editor for Linux, similar >to Wavelab or Sound Forge. Ardour already has a multitrack wave editor that has lots of capabilities. Unfortunately, they are the wrong capabilities. Ardour's editor was modelled on snd, which is a phenomenally powerful *wave* editor. Its much more powerful than Wavelab or SoundForge, though its interface is much less novice-friendly and it doesn't have the same set of "plugins" that those tools do. However, a Digital Audio Workstation isn't about editing waves as much as it is about arranging chunks of data with semantic properties (think "the first 2 bars of the that sax intro", "the bass riff", "the door squeak", "that vibrato C# from the tenor"). It also requires support for *musical* notions like "measures", "tempo", "bars", "beats" and so forth that are not part of many audio file editors. Ardour's current editor *can* be used to do this, but its extraordinarily painful to do, just as it is in snd, gnoise, DAP, sweep or any of the other existing "wave" editors for Linux. Consequently, Ardour's editing capabilities are currently undergoing a dramatic redesign to be like the "audio sequencing" windows of tools like ProTools, Samplitude, Cubase and many others. There will still be facilities for "wave editing" (and in fact, some of the operations in the arranger are just that), but such operations will be performed on "Regions", not entire Playlists (think "tracks"), and in a dedicated window with tools optimized for "wave editing", not "arranging audio in time". >What I *am* concerned about is that in many (most?) modern studio >environments, MIDI sequencing is essential, and it is very important >to integrate that with the audio recording process. Also, for various >reasons, many plugins must have MIDI timing and other MIDI information. >I don't know of any Linux applications that pretend to solve this issue. LAAGA is designed in part to handle such things. MusE is a very powerful MIDI sequencer, capable of most MIDI-related editing and sequencing that any of the "big guys" can do. OTOH, its audio capabilities are very limited, and will likely never approach those of Ardour. Rather than force the integration of two applications that have evolved some considerable distance along their intended directions, LAAGA will allow them to both be run in sample-sync with each other. I consider this a *vastly* superior solution to the "everything in one application", though thats not to say that there is no case for integration into a single application as well. It may be that if and when we get Ardour and MusE to use LAAGA to drive them, I might still feel that it would be better to have MIDI sequencing within Ardour itself. But I
Re: [linux-audio-dev] prof multitrack studio
>For me this kind of softwares is a real gift for anyone working with >audio. A track contains "clips", each of them has vector envelopes >for volume/pan/whatever parameter automatable. The volume enveloppe >is generally the one you use the most but you can choose what appears >in superposition of the wave data. With just one mouse click you >manage a fade-in or lower the volume of a given clip. It is very >visual since you constantly see the setting through the enveloppes >for each clip. This and the fact that you have plenty of tracks, hey >it is a multitrack editor, give y ou what could be a Gimp for >audio. A montage tool with effects. (do you see my subliminal >exhortation toward Glame people ;) Ardour's new arranger will support all these things, and lots, lots more besides. The underlying infrastructure is already there for this, but the GUI side of it is under development right now. >One of the features I like the most on Samplitude and Wavelab is the >fact tha t each clip composing a track has a menu allowing to insert >plugins just for the clip. The plugins are then turned on/off along >the playing, it saves some cpu power. I hope to add such a thing to Ardour at some point. Its not very difficult at all. --p
Re: [linux-audio-dev] prof multitrack studio
Linium wrote > > I had the opporunity to test Wavelab3.0 and Samplitude > which are 2 multitracks editor. > Samplitude is far more complete, it is the same than Wavelab plus a > traditionnal mixer (insert/aux). I have not yet tryed CoolEdit Pro > but I think it belongs more or less to the same category. Slightly oversimplified, Ardor is a multitrack recorder. Wavelab is an audio file editor. (That has limited recording capabilities.) Samplitude is a multitrack audio recorder. (No MIDI recording or editing.) CoolEdit Pro is both a multitrack recorder and wave editor. (No MIDI.) On Windows, the major apps are Cubase, Logic and Cakewalk Sonar, which are multitrack audio and MIDI recorders, that have MIDI editing capability (multiple MIDI editors to choose from, in the case of Cubase and Logic) and maybe some audio file editing capability. AFAIK, there is nothing like any of those on Linux yet, and Paul Davis seems to not care much about adding MIDI support to either Ardour or LAAGA. > Paul Davis presented Ardour as an equivalant of the Mackie hardware > recorder which complement their digital mixing desk. > It seems to me that Ardour is nice for this task but what kind of > editing does it offer? An interesting comment, considering that just earlier I was thinking it would be nice to have a decent audio file editor for Linux, similar to Wavelab or Sound Forge. I'm not so much concerned with Ardour handling audio editing, since other implementations mostly pass that off to an external application. (E.g., Steinberg's Cubase and Wavelab, Sonic Foundry's Vegas Audio and Sound Forge, and the two windows of CoolEdit Pro, one for multitrack recording, and the other for editing.) What I *am* concerned about is that in many (most?) modern studio environments, MIDI sequencing is essential, and it is very important to integrate that with the audio recording process. Also, for various reasons, many plugins must have MIDI timing and other MIDI information. I don't know of any Linux applications that pretend to solve this issue. Jay Ts [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [linux-audio-dev] prof multitrack studio
Linium <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > For me this kind of softwares is a real gift for anyone working with audio. > A track contains "clips", each of them has vector envelopes for > volume/pan/whatever parameter automatable. Hi, for Linux there's also Mix, which can do partly what you described, from http://gige.xdv.org/pages/mix/ -- -Jarno
Re: [linux-audio-dev] prof multitrack studio
Linium wrote: > > Le Thu, 19 Jul 2001, vous avez écrit : > > > delire wrote: > > > > > > i use pd [Pure Data] alot but miss the extensive [64 track] mutitracking / wave >editing facility of cool edit pro [the only reason i maintain a windows partition at >all. is there any design to make > > > a professional scale multitrack studio / wave editor in the future? > > > > > > very pleased this list exist btw ; ) > > > > > > de| > > > > > Sure, there is. It's named 'ardour' and is developped by Paul Davis. > > > > Check http://sourceforge.net/projects/ardour/ > > > > fd > > Hello, > > I am in the same situation, using PD and a windows multitrack/editor. > > I had the opporunity to test Wavelab3.0 and Samplitude > which are 2 multitracks editor. > Samplitude is far more complete, it is the same than Wavelab plus a > traditionnal mixer (insert/aux). I have not yet tryed CoolEdit Pro > but I think it belongs more or less to the same category. > > For me this kind of softwares is a real gift for anyone working with audio. > A track contains "clips", each of them has vector envelopes for > volume/pan/whatever parameter automatable. > The volume enveloppe is generally the one you use the most but you can choose > what appears in superposition of the wave data. With just one mouse click you > manage a fade-in or lower the volume of a given clip. It is very visual since > you constantly see the setting through the enveloppes for each clip. This and > the fact that you have plenty of tracks, hey it is a multitrack editor, give you > what could be a Gimp for audio. A montage tool with effects. (do you see my > subliminal exhortation toward Glame people ;) > > One of the features I like the most on Samplitude and Wavelab is the fact that > each clip composing a track has a menu allowing to insert plugins > just for the clip. The plugins are then turned on/off along the playing, it > saves some cpu power. > > This visual clip oriented editing is a real improvement and let you do > increadible things very fast. > > Paul Davis presented Ardour as an equivalant of the Mackie hardware recorder > which complement their digital mixing desk. > It seems to me that Ardour is nice for this task but what kind of editing does > it offer ? > Has ardour per clip plugins and vector automation ? Could it be used by > people more on the post-production/ creative montage side of things ? > > Linium > > > > I have not used ardour extensively, so I cannot speak of ardour in details. But I know that ardour supports LAADSPA plugins and automation. fd
Re: [linux-audio-dev] prof multitrack studio
Le Thu, 19 Jul 2001, vous avez écrit : > > delire wrote: > > > > i use pd [Pure Data] alot but miss the extensive [64 track] mutitracking / wave >editing facility of cool edit pro [the only reason i maintain a windows partition at >all. is there any design to make > > a professional scale multitrack studio / wave editor in the future? > > > > very pleased this list exist btw ; ) > > > > de| > > > Sure, there is. It's named 'ardour' and is developped by Paul Davis. > > Check http://sourceforge.net/projects/ardour/ > > fd Hello, I am in the same situation, using PD and a windows multitrack/editor. I had the opporunity to test Wavelab3.0 and Samplitude which are 2 multitracks editor. Samplitude is far more complete, it is the same than Wavelab plus a traditionnal mixer (insert/aux). I have not yet tryed CoolEdit Pro but I think it belongs more or less to the same category. For me this kind of softwares is a real gift for anyone working with audio. A track contains "clips", each of them has vector envelopes for volume/pan/whatever parameter automatable. The volume enveloppe is generally the one you use the most but you can choose what appears in superposition of the wave data. With just one mouse click you manage a fade-in or lower the volume of a given clip. It is very visual since you constantly see the setting through the enveloppes for each clip. This and the fact that you have plenty of tracks, hey it is a multitrack editor, give you what could be a Gimp for audio. A montage tool with effects. (do you see my subliminal exhortation toward Glame people ;) One of the features I like the most on Samplitude and Wavelab is the fact that each clip composing a track has a menu allowing to insert plugins just for the clip. The plugins are then turned on/off along the playing, it saves some cpu power. This visual clip oriented editing is a real improvement and let you do increadible things very fast. Paul Davis presented Ardour as an equivalant of the Mackie hardware recorder which complement their digital mixing desk. It seems to me that Ardour is nice for this task but what kind of editing does it offer ? Has ardour per clip plugins and vector automation ? Could it be used by people more on the post-production/ creative montage side of things ? Linium
Re: [linux-audio-dev] prof multitrack studio
delire wrote: > > i've asked on irc repeatedly - been to current linux apps lists, asked > practitioners etc etc and no-one mentioned it??? > > ARDOUR looks amazing thx!! > > de| Well, I think it is because high-end audio applications are not very known in the Linux world, despite the fact that there are "big" and "interesting" applications. Add to this the fact that until recently drivers for the audio cards needed by these applications were not available. fd
Re: [linux-audio-dev] prof multitrack studio
i've asked on irc repeatedly - been to current linux apps lists, asked practitioners etc etc and no-one mentioned it??? ARDOUR looks amazing thx!! de|
Re: [linux-audio-dev] prof multitrack studio
> delire wrote: > > > > i use pd [Pure Data] alot but miss the extensive [64 track] mutitracking / wave >editing facility of cool edit pro [the only reason i maintain a windows partition at >all. is there any design to make > a professional scale multitrack studio / wave editor in the future? > > very pleased this list exist btw ; ) > > de| > > > > _ / The fact that plants experience scale as a kind of dermatitis is not necessarily >indication of a relationship between disease and 'scientific perspective' \ _ Sure, there is. It's named 'ardour' and is developped by Paul Davis. Check http://sourceforge.net/projects/ardour/ fd
[linux-audio-dev] prof multitrack studio
i use pd [Pure Data] alot but miss the extensive [64 track] mutitracking / wave editing facility of cool edit pro [the only reason i maintain a windows partition at all. is there any design to make a professional scale multitrack studio / wave editor in the future? very pleased this list exist btw ; ) de| _ / The fact that plants experience scale as a kind of dermatitis is not necessarily indication of a relationship between disease and 'scientific perspective' \ _
