Re: [PATCH] sata_nv,ahci: add the ahci legacy mode support to sata_nv
Jeff Garzik wrote: Jeff Garzik wrote: The proposed sata_nv patch does the opposite -- guarantees we must support the continually problematic legacy IDE interface ad infinitum. Such patches are OK for the test lab, but in this specific case users /suffer/ when not running AHCI mode. Just to reinforce... sata_nv support and bug fixes are primarily done right now through the valiant efforts of Robert Hancock (with assists from Alan, Tejun, and others). Robert's job is difficult, because he has no hardware documentation[1], and NVIDIA does not seem to be helping out much with driver bug reports on the lists or in bugzillas. Right, I don't have anything. Unless the original incomplete ADMA driver release from NVIDIA counts as documentation, lol. And yes, I've CC'ed NVIDIA people about a few ADMA-related issues and been met with silence. It would be nice if they were as responsive about ADMA issues as I must say Kuan and Peer have been on the SWNCQ side of things.. As far as I know, I am the only one in the universe outside of NVIDIA with any SATA docs at all, and those docs _only_ cover ADMA registers and DMA structures, no PCI config info, no errata, nothing on SWNCQ or legacy IDE (well, half a page). NVIDIA has indeed become more engaged in sata_nv in recent times, and that's a positive sign. You, Kuon and Ayaz have all been noticeably more responsive in email. Thanks. Users have definitely benefited, particularly from your help addressing a couple SWNCQ issues. But at this point in time, being asked to choose between sata_nv and ahci is no choice at all. One has public documentation, wide industry support and little-or-no bugs. The other has several open issues, no documentation, and support obstacles. They're not even equivalent interfaces in this case, in the proposed AHCI legacy mode patch these controllers are supported in the default SFF mode only, no ADMA or SWNCQ, so you don't get any NCQ support.. -- Robert Hancock Saskatoon, SK, Canada To email, remove nospam from [EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://www.roberthancock.com/ - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-ide in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: [PATCH] sata_nv,ahci: add the ahci legacy mode support to sata_nv
Jeff Garzik wrote: The proposed sata_nv patch does the opposite -- guarantees we must support the continually problematic legacy IDE interface ad infinitum. Such patches are OK for the test lab, but in this specific case users /suffer/ when not running AHCI mode. Just to reinforce... sata_nv support and bug fixes are primarily done right now through the valiant efforts of Robert Hancock (with assists from Alan, Tejun, and others). Robert's job is difficult, because he has no hardware documentation[1], and NVIDIA does not seem to be helping out much with driver bug reports on the lists or in bugzillas. As far as I know, I am the only one in the universe outside of NVIDIA with any SATA docs at all, and those docs _only_ cover ADMA registers and DMA structures, no PCI config info, no errata, nothing on SWNCQ or legacy IDE (well, half a page). NVIDIA has indeed become more engaged in sata_nv in recent times, and that's a positive sign. You, Kuon and Ayaz have all been noticeably more responsive in email. Thanks. Users have definitely benefited, particularly from your help addressing a couple SWNCQ issues. But at this point in time, being asked to choose between sata_nv and ahci is no choice at all. One has public documentation, wide industry support and little-or-no bugs. The other has several open issues, no documentation, and support obstacles. Jeff [1] Robert, please correct me if I'm wrong... - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-ide in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: [PATCH] sata_nv,ahci: add the ahci legacy mode support to sata_nv
Yes, link - http://lkml.org/lkml/2007/10/8/93 add the AHCI legacy support to sata_nv when IDE/RAID mode been set in SBIOS and Device IDs are not in ahci.c at this moment. To do so, when a new chipset come out and DIDs haven't been submited to LKML,user still can use ahci driver to handle it when setting AHCI mode in BIOS, using sata_nv when setting RAID/IDE in BIOS. For example, ahci driver in Fedora 7 doesn't include the DIDs of MCP78, so if you set the IDE/RAID mode in BIOS, os installation onto SATA drive will fail. But if Fedora 7 include this patch, installation will be successful. 2007/10/19, Jeff Garzik [EMAIL PROTECTED]: peer chen wrote: Ok,I agree to use AHCI driver for our AHCI controllers no matter their class codes are IDE/RAID/AHCI. But for those new or upcoming AHCI controller which DIDs are not included in ahci.c and also IDE/RAID mode being set in BIOS, no driver will be loaded currently, so I hope the first patch http://lkml.org/lkml/2007/10/8/93 can be appied for this case. Any comments? hmmm is that the correct URL? That one updates sata_nv to support AHCI controllers?. I would think you would want to add the RAID class code to ahci.c instead? And just some regular PCI IDs? Jeff - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-ide in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: [PATCH] sata_nv,ahci: add the ahci legacy mode support to sata_nv
peer chen wrote: Ok,I agree to use AHCI driver for our AHCI controllers no matter their class codes are IDE/RAID/AHCI. But for those new or upcoming AHCI controller which DIDs are not included in ahci.c and also IDE/RAID mode being set in BIOS, no driver will be loaded currently, so I hope the first patch http://lkml.org/lkml/2007/10/8/93 can be appied for this case. Any comments? hmmm is that the correct URL? That one updates sata_nv to support AHCI controllers?. I would think you would want to add the RAID class code to ahci.c instead? And just some regular PCI IDs? Jeff - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-ide in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: [PATCH] sata_nv,ahci: add the ahci legacy mode support to sata_nv
Ok,I agree to use AHCI driver for our AHCI controllers no matter their class codes are IDE/RAID/AHCI. But for those new or upcoming AHCI controller which DIDs are not included in ahci.c and also IDE/RAID mode being set in BIOS, no driver will be loaded currently, so I hope the first patch http://lkml.org/lkml/2007/10/8/93 can be appied for this case. Any comments? 2007/10/19, Jeff Garzik [EMAIL PROTECTED]: peer chen wrote: I hope one of the following patches can be merged to 2.6.24. == http://lkml.org/lkml/2007/10/8/93 http://lkml.org/lkml/2007/9/25/20 Unfortunately I do not feel like this is the right course of action. Experience from Intel platforms tells us that our users get very unhappy when their silicon supports AHCI mode, but they are forced into using a less-performant mode. A popular example is an unnamed OEM whose BIOS had no method whatsoever for enabling AHCI -- didn't even program the PCI BAR -- even though tests showed the AHCI mode worked just fine when manually programmed. AHCI is more likely to provide a /stable/ Serial ATA experience, because the silicon deals primarily with sending and receiving FIS's, and not much else. In constrast, experience has shown the legacy IDE interface to be a less reliable method of SATA support. And certainly AHCI is much, much faster with less per-command overhead. Given that AHCI is both faster and more stable, I feel it is the best policy to enable AHCI when the hardware supports it, regardless of PCI class code (IDE, SATA, or RAID). Yes, I agree to set the 'swncq' as default for 2.6.24, after all, for our server customers, stability is far more important than the new feature no matter the problem is caused by drive or controller. Agreed. Done! Jeff - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-ide in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: [PATCH] sata_nv,ahci: add the ahci legacy mode support to sata_nv
I hope one of the following patches can be merged to 2.6.24. == http://lkml.org/lkml/2007/10/8/93 http://lkml.org/lkml/2007/9/25/20 Yes, I agree to set the 'swncq' as default for 2.6.24, after all, for our server customers, stability is far more important than the new feature no matter the problem is caused by drive or controller. 2007/10/13, Jeff Garzik [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Peer Chen wrote: Add the ahci controller legacy mode support to sata_nv. Move the DIDs of legacy mode from ahci.c to sata_nv.c The patch base on kernel 2.6.23-rc8 Signed-off-by: Peer Chen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Would you mind checking libata-dev.git#upstream, and make sure it has all the NV patches? I'm thinking I should go ahead and push the 'nv-swncq' branch, which contains the sata_nv updates for swncq. They have been in -mm for a while. I am leaning towards leaving the default to 'off' for 2.6.24 though. Comments welcome... Jeff - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-ide in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: [PATCH] sata_nv,ahci: add the ahci legacy mode support to sata_nv
Peer Chen wrote: Add the ahci controller legacy mode support to sata_nv. Move the DIDs of legacy mode from ahci.c to sata_nv.c The patch base on kernel 2.6.23-rc8 Signed-off-by: Peer Chen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Would you mind checking libata-dev.git#upstream, and make sure it has all the NV patches? I'm thinking I should go ahead and push the 'nv-swncq' branch, which contains the sata_nv updates for swncq. They have been in -mm for a while. I am leaning towards leaving the default to 'off' for 2.6.24 though. Comments welcome... Jeff - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-ide in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: [PATCH] sata_nv,ahci: add the ahci legacy mode support to sata_nv
Peer Chen wrote: Add the ahci controller legacy mode support to sata_nv. Move the DIDs of legacy mode from ahci.c to sata_nv.c The patch base on kernel 2.6.23-rc8 Signed-off-by: Peer Chen [EMAIL PROTECTED] I don't understand why these are being moved? If an interface can be driven via the AHCI driver, that is greatly preferred over the sata_nv driver. Jeff - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-ide in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: Re: [PATCH] sata_nv,ahci: add the ahci legacy mode support to sata_nv
We have three mode for one controller - IDE/RAID/AHCI, we want sata_nv being load when user select the IDE mode in BIOS, load ahci driver if RAID/AHCI being selected, which will verify if our legacy mode work well and have additional option if there is any bug for the ahci mode. Peer Chen 2007-09-25 - ·¢¼þÈË£ºJeff Garzik ·¢ËÍÈÕÆÚ£º2007-09-25 15:08:45 ÊÕ¼þÈË£ºPeer Chen ³ËÍ£ºlinux-kernel; linux-ide; akpm Ö÷Ì⣺Re: [PATCH] sata_nv,ahci: add the ahci legacy mode support to sata_nv Peer Chen wrote: Add the ahci controller legacy mode support to sata_nv. Move the DIDs of legacy mode from ahci.c to sata_nv.c The patch base on kernel 2.6.23-rc8 Signed-off-by: Peer Chen [EMAIL PROTECTED] I don't understand why these are being moved? If an interface can be driven via the AHCI driver, that is greatly preferred over the sata_nv driver. Jeff - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-ide in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: [PATCH] sata_nv,ahci: add the ahci legacy mode support to sata_nv
Peer Chen wrote: We have three mode for one controller - IDE/RAID/AHCI, we want sata_nv being load when user select the IDE mode in BIOS, load ahci driver if RAID/AHCI being selected, which will verify if our legacy mode work well and have additional option if there is any bug for the ahci mode. I understand that logic, but look at what happens in practice: 1) User installs new OS in AHCI mode. Distro updates initramfs (loaded at kernel boot time, with boot drivers) to include ahci driver. 2) User reboots into BIOS setup, and switches from AHCI mode to IDE mode. 3) BIOS setup reboots computer. 4) OS kernel and initramfs image are loaded. ahci driver load fails. 5) User is left without a bootable system. The same situation happens in reverse, if you install in IDE mode (sata_nv in initramfs), and then switch to AHCI/RAID mode. Additionally, AHCI provides better performance and more direct exposure to the SATA frames. This is key for supporting many modern SATA features that cannot be accessed via IDE legacy mode. AHCI lacks in-silicon simulation of an IDE interface, which time has shown is a less stable, edge-case-prone approach to SATA. I do not find the verify nvidia's legacy mode works argument compelling; that is not the kernel's job, nor the user's. And if there is an AHCI silicon bug, let us deal with that when such a bug appears. Overall, AFAICS this patch -introduces- new ways for the user to easily render their systems unbootable. Jeff - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-ide in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: Re: [PATCH] sata_nv,ahci: add the ahci legacy mode support to sata_nv
Yes,I hear what you are saying but user should know what they are setting in BIOS,there are lots of ways to change the BIOS setting result in unbootable system not only change AHCI/IDE mode. If they encounter booting failure after changing the BIOS setting,they should restore it. Using legacy driver for legacy mode won't affect user to enjoy the feature of AHCI,just select AHCI/RAID mode will ok. As I know, Intel did it in the same way,and I think it's reasonable. -- Peer Chen 2007-09-25 - ·¢¼þÈË£ºJeff Garzik ·¢ËÍÈÕÆÚ£º2007-09-25 16:13:52 ÊÕ¼þÈË£ºPeer Chen ³ËÍ£ºlinux-kernel; linux-ide; akpm Ö÷Ì⣺Re: [PATCH] sata_nv,ahci: add the ahci legacy mode support to sata_nv Peer Chen wrote: We have three mode for one controller - IDE/RAID/AHCI, we want sata_nv being load when user select the IDE mode in BIOS, load ahci driver if RAID/AHCI being selected, which will verify if our legacy mode work well and have additional option if there is any bug for the ahci mode. I understand that logic, but look at what happens in practice: 1) User installs new OS in AHCI mode. Distro updates initramfs (loaded at kernel boot time, with boot drivers) to include ahci driver. 2) User reboots into BIOS setup, and switches from AHCI mode to IDE mode. 3) BIOS setup reboots computer. 4) OS kernel and initramfs image are loaded. ahci driver load fails. 5) User is left without a bootable system. The same situation happens in reverse, if you install in IDE mode (sata_nv in initramfs), and then switch to AHCI/RAID mode. Additionally, AHCI provides better performance and more direct exposure to the SATA frames. This is key for supporting many modern SATA features that cannot be accessed via IDE legacy mode. AHCI lacks in-silicon simulation of an IDE interface, which time has shown is a less stable, edge-case-prone approach to SATA. I do not find the verify nvidia's legacy mode works argument compelling; that is not the kernel's job, nor the user's. And if there is an AHCI silicon bug, let us deal with that when such a bug appears. Overall, AFAICS this patch -introduces- new ways for the user to easily render their systems unbootable. Jeff - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-ide in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html