Re: Cable Internet, 012, and what's between it...

[Shaul Karl]

On Thu, Dec 11, 2003 at 12:08:12AM +0200, Dan Fruehauf wrote:
>
> but what made me sign with netvision was the fact that they supported linux, 
> and some people knew their linux, ofcourse they told me that slackware is not 
> supported, yada yada yada.
> 


  According to my one or at most 2 short sessions with them, which also
took part a very long time ago, they were willing to support KDE and 
maybe Gnome, but not plain editing of configuration files. That is, they
were willing to tell me where to click the mouse, provided I had KDE.
  One reason for this might be that configuration files tend to be a bit
or maybe a lot distribution dependant.

-- 
"If you have an apple and I have  an apple and we  exchange apples then
you and I will still each have  one apple. But  if you have an idea and I
have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two
ideas." -- George Bernard Shaw (sent by  shaulk @ actcom . net . il)

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Re: Cable Internet, 012, and what's between it...

[Alex Chudnovsky]

On Thursday 11 December 2003 00:08, Dan Fruehauf wrote:
> but what made me sign with netvision was the fact that they supported
> linux, and some people knew their linux, ofcourse they told me that
> slackware is not supported, yada yada yada. i took some 30 minutes for
> thinking, and asking some other people.
> when i was sure i could connect through them, i signed, connected, and
> surprisingly, there were no problems at all. and like Ilya mentioned - pptp
> in linux is easy as hell.
> Netvision provided me with their so called script that connects you, and a
> pptp client.
> All in all, i stayed with netvision because they cared about their linux
> users, that's about it. as for 012 - i think that they lost me pretty quick
> just because they have a bunch of dorks in their support teams.
>
> i sum it that it is possible to connect through a dialer with aztv + nv,
> and that nv will care for you if youre using linux, unlike 012 or probably
> other isps.
>
> Cheers.
Good luck. But be aware of one thing with Netvision - they claim supporting 
CONNECTION with Linux BUT NO FURTHER. Once you are connected, it's your own 
problem if you are not able to browse, or to get e-mails.
Once, upon experiencing some problems with getting e-mais ( authentication 
problem or something like that ), I called their support. Of course, the very 
first answer I've got from their support monkey was the usual "no support for 
Linux". I rebooted to Windows, and of course, the problem was there. The guy 
claimed that he had had no problem to connect to my e-mail account from his 
own workstation, so I asked him whether he knew of some problem with their 
mail server regarding cable users. He insisted that their mail server was all 
right and that the problem was at mine. All that was left for me, was to ask 
him to transfer the call to a Linux guy. Fortunately, there was a Linux guy 
in this shift. As soon as I started to describe the problem to him, he 
immediately told me that there indeed had been some problem with their mail 
server, and that they had been taking care of it.
-- 

Regards,
Alex Chudnovsky
e-mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ICQ : 35559910


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Re: Cable Internet, 012, and what's between it...

[Alex Chudnovsky]

On Wednesday 10 December 2003 23:38, Ilya Konstantinov wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 09, 2003 at 11:07:37PM +0200, Dan Fruehauf wrote:
> > In order to make sure i could connect through linux, i called 012 support
> > line, and asked about their method of connection. I was told that the
> > authentication is done via DHCP, using the cable modem. forgetting to ask
> > for
>
> AFAIK, they've long since stopped using that scheme. Here's how it used
> to work: By cooperating with your cable company, they made the cable
> company's DHCP server allocate your computer a _real_ Internet IP
> address, in the 012.net IP block. You were recognized as an legible
> 012.net subscriber by your cable modem's MAC address (yes, their side
> can match the cable modem's MAC for requests coming from your PC).
> This way, you connect to the Internet without any tunnels ("VPNs").

As discussed previously on this list, the VPN way makes it a lot easier for 
the ISPs to disconnect users. So to say, radical method of bandwidth 
management.


> My ISP, NetVision, offers a PPTP server.

And they even claim to support Linux users, although it's pretty hard to catch 
their Linux support guys, as they are rare and there is no Linux guy for each 
and every shift.
>
> I doubt their dialer does anything special. Just ask them for a PPTP
> server address and use pptp-client to connect to it.
It doesn't. It just creates a new connection. You have to click this 
connection icon to get connected.
>
> I suggest you to use my wrapper script for pptp-client, which takes
> care of adding the required "route":
> http://iglu.org.il/~future/pptp-routed



>
> > "we dont care, they are probably very few..."
>
> First of all, they should work on their customer relation skills. But
> it's good to "cut through the bullshit" and know their attitude upfront.
>
> I think it mostly indicates that their support is unprofessional, since
> they couldn't figure out that what you need are the raw technical
> details: what server the dialer users etc.
>
> > which linux user would like to stay in an ISP that doesnt give a damn
> >  about him or his convienience? ;/
>
> Those support lines are simply full of unskilled monkeys. 
For they are cheap. And for the vast majority of the situations people call 
the support in, even their skills + some typical cases' description hanging 
on the wall are more than sufficient.
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-- 

Regards,
Alex Chudnovsky
e-mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ICQ : 35559910


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Re: Cable Internet, 012, and what's between it...

[Alex Chudnovsky]

On Wednesday 10 December 2003 23:25, Guy Teverovsky wrote:
> On Wed, 2003-12-10 at 22:15, Alex Chudnovsky wrote:
> [snip]
>
> > I have a regular 6104. May you tell me how you configured your router to
> > use BOTH DHCP and PPTP? I've encountered only the option of using either
> > this or that.
>
> You can't.
> What you can do is to call your Cable company and ask for static IP in
> cables network (172.bla.bla.bla). After that, configure your router
> according to this guide:
> http://www.netguru.co.il/files/manuals/edimax/edimax.pdf
> (sorry boys and girls, I have only Hebrew version)
Thanks, but as I've written in some previous message, I'm now back to ADSL. 



> Cheers,
> Guy

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Regards,
Alex Chudnovsky
e-mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ICQ : 35559910


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Re: Cable Internet, 012, and what's between it...

[Dan Fruehauf]

On Wednesday 10 December 2003 23:38, Ilya Konstantinov wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 09, 2003 at 11:07:37PM +0200, Dan Fruehauf wrote:
> > In order to make sure i could connect through linux, i called 012 support
> > line, and asked about their method of connection. I was told that the
> > authentication is done via DHCP, using the cable modem. forgetting to ask
> > for
>
> AFAIK, they've long since stopped using that scheme. Here's how it used
> to work: By cooperating with your cable company, they made the cable
> company's DHCP server allocate your computer a _real_ Internet IP
> address, in the 012.net IP block. You were recognized as an legible
> 012.net subscriber by your cable modem's MAC address (yes, their side
> can match the cable modem's MAC for requests coming from your PC).
> This way, you connect to the Internet without any tunnels ("VPNs").
>
> But anyway, they don't offer it for new customers.
>
> > The connection was done via some kind of a dialer that uses L2TP.
>
> I bet they offer a PPTP as well. Dialing thru PPTP with Linux is a
> piece of cake. Pretty much the same as dialing with PPTP thru an ADSL
> modem.
>
> > Unconcerned i dialed 012 again, asking them how can i connect with the
> > method promised to me - dhcp. what i mainly got was some lame excuses,
> > and that i should connect with a dialer and that connecting via DHCP is
> > deprecated (one of their excuses was that it is unstable and insecure).
> > Not getting into details, it is probably possible to connect via linux to
> > 012, but why should we? - when other isps give you your DHCP without
> > arguing...
>
> 012.net is one of the few who ever implemented this no-tunnel scheme.
> My ISP, NetVision, offers a PPTP server.
>
> I doubt their dialer does anything special. Just ask them for a PPTP
> server address and use pptp-client to connect to it.
>
> I suggest you to use my wrapper script for pptp-client, which takes
> care of adding the required "route":
> http://iglu.org.il/~future/pptp-routed
>
> > "we dont care, they are probably very few..."
>
> First of all, they should work on their customer relation skills. But
> it's good to "cut through the bullshit" and know their attitude upfront.
>
> I think it mostly indicates that their support is unprofessional, since
> they couldn't figure out that what you need are the raw technical
> details: what server the dialer users etc.
>
> > which linux user would like to stay in an ISP that doesnt give a damn
> >  about him or his convienience? ;/
>
> Those support lines are simply full of unskilled monkeys. The question
> remains whether you can escalate your issue to someone skilled. With
> Arutzei Zahav's support, for example, I found it impossible.
>
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To sum it all, i disconnected from 012 this morning, knowing their support was 
unprofessional, and yeah - i know they are monkeys, i didnt expect more - 
just a dhcp connection.
Unfortunately netvision misled me with the static ip idea, they give you a 
static IP in the UBR (aka the AZTV lan), and then you can run a tunnel on it.
not anything close to static ip.
but what made me sign with netvision was the fact that they supported linux, 
and some people knew their linux, ofcourse they told me that slackware is not 
supported, yada yada yada. i took some 30 minutes for thinking, and asking 
some other people.
when i was sure i could connect through them, i signed, connected, and 
surprisingly, there were no problems at all. and like Ilya mentioned - pptp 
in linux is easy as hell.
Netvision provided me with their so called script that connects you, and a 
pptp client.
All in all, i stayed with netvision because they cared about their linux 
users, that's about it. as for 012 - i think that they lost me pretty quick 
just because they have a bunch of dorks in their support teams.

i sum it that it is possible to connect through a dialer with aztv + nv, and 
that nv will care for you if youre using linux, unlike 012 or probably other 
isps.

Cheers.

-- 
Dan Fruehauf.


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Re: Cable Internet, 012, and what's between it...

[Ilya Konstantinov]

On Tue, Dec 09, 2003 at 11:07:37PM +0200, Dan Fruehauf wrote:
> In order to make sure i could connect through linux, i called 012 support 
> line, and asked about their method of connection. I was told that the 
> authentication is done via DHCP, using the cable modem. forgetting to ask for 

AFAIK, they've long since stopped using that scheme. Here's how it used
to work: By cooperating with your cable company, they made the cable
company's DHCP server allocate your computer a _real_ Internet IP
address, in the 012.net IP block. You were recognized as an legible
012.net subscriber by your cable modem's MAC address (yes, their side
can match the cable modem's MAC for requests coming from your PC).
This way, you connect to the Internet without any tunnels ("VPNs").

But anyway, they don't offer it for new customers.

> The connection was done via some kind of a dialer that uses L2TP.

I bet they offer a PPTP as well. Dialing thru PPTP with Linux is a
piece of cake. Pretty much the same as dialing with PPTP thru an ADSL
modem.

> Unconcerned i dialed 012 again, asking them how can i connect with the method 
> promised to me - dhcp. what i mainly got was some lame excuses, and that i 
> should connect with a dialer and that connecting via DHCP is deprecated (one 
> of their excuses was that it is unstable and insecure). Not getting into 
> details, it is probably possible to connect via linux to 012, but why should 
> we? - when other isps give you your DHCP without arguing...

012.net is one of the few who ever implemented this no-tunnel scheme.
My ISP, NetVision, offers a PPTP server.

I doubt their dialer does anything special. Just ask them for a PPTP
server address and use pptp-client to connect to it.

I suggest you to use my wrapper script for pptp-client, which takes
care of adding the required "route":
http://iglu.org.il/~future/pptp-routed

> "we dont care, they are probably very few..."

First of all, they should work on their customer relation skills. But
it's good to "cut through the bullshit" and know their attitude upfront.

I think it mostly indicates that their support is unprofessional, since
they couldn't figure out that what you need are the raw technical
details: what server the dialer users etc.

> which linux user would like to stay in an ISP that doesnt give a damn  
> about him or his convienience? ;/

Those support lines are simply full of unskilled monkeys. The question
remains whether you can escalate your issue to someone skilled. With
Arutzei Zahav's support, for example, I found it impossible.

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Re: Cable Internet, 012, and what's between it...

[Guy Teverovsky]

On Wed, 2003-12-10 at 22:15, Alex Chudnovsky wrote:
[snip]
> >
> I have a regular 6104. May you tell me how you configured your router to use 
> BOTH DHCP and PPTP? I've encountered only the option of using either this or 
> that.

You can't.
What you can do is to call your Cable company and ask for static IP in
cables network (172.bla.bla.bla). After that, configure your router
according to this guide:
http://www.netguru.co.il/files/manuals/edimax/edimax.pdf
(sorry boys and girls, I have only Hebrew version)

Check the second part about configuring the router. The first part talks
about setting you Windows box so it can connect to the router web
interface.

Cheers,
Guy

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Re: Cable Internet, 012, and what's between it...

[Alex Chudnovsky]

On Wednesday 10 December 2003 22:53, Ehud Karni wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 22:15:02 +0200, Alex Chudnovsky 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I have a regular 6104. May you tell me how you configured your router to
> > use BOTH DHCP and PPTP? I've encountered only the option of using either
> > this or that.
>
> May be mine is different/newer ?
>
> I attach the PPTP configuration page (General Setup --> WAN (select
> PPTP) --> More Configuration).
OK, I've read it. Your router is definitely newer and better.
>
> Ehud.

-- 

Regards,
Alex Chudnovsky
e-mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ICQ : 35559910


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Re: Cable Internet, 012, and what's between it...

[Alex Chudnovsky]

On Wednesday 10 December 2003 22:53, Ehud Karni wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 22:15:02 +0200, Alex Chudnovsky 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I have a regular 6104. May you tell me how you configured your router to
> > use BOTH DHCP and PPTP? I've encountered only the option of using either
> > this or that.
>
> May be mine is different/newer ?
>
> I attach the PPTP configuration page (General Setup --> WAN (select
> PPTP) --> More Configuration).
I'm not able to read your attachment. Which format is that?
>
> Ehud.

-- 

Regards,
Alex Chudnovsky
e-mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ICQ : 35559910


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Re: Cable Internet, 012, and what's between it...

[linux-il]

Guy Teverovsky wrote:
Hint: cable modem MAC address which can be easily tracked.
And forged, therefore proving nothing, as far as I can tell.

--Amos

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Re: Cable Internet, 012, and what's between it...

[Guy Teverovsky]

On Wed, 2003-12-10 at 10:00, Shachar Shemesh wrote:

[snip]
 
> >
> When you connect to the internet, you get an IP. The IP is marked, at 
> the ISP's side, as belonging to you. If that IP address does something 
> bad, it's your door the police are going to be knocking down on.
> 
> Now, how possible is it going to be for you to claim that this does not 
> prove anything? You could hire my services, which is not a bad thing in 
> and on itself, but does not guarentee that the trial is going to go your 
> way.
> 

Hint: cable modem MAC address which can be easily tracked.

> Personally, I'd rather not even start.
> 
>  Shachar
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RE: Cable Internet, 012, and what's between it...

[Guy Teverovsky]

On Wed, 2003-12-10 at 08:27, Michael Sternberg wrote:
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Dan Fruehauf
> > Sent: Tue, December 09, 2003 11:08 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Cable Internet, 012, and what's between it...
> > ...
> > ... beware of the evil 012 ...
> > ...
> 
> Strange. I'm connected to 012 via MATAV cables and happily use Linux with
> IP received via DHCP. Maybe it depends on the geographic area (Haifa) ?
> More than that - MATAV supplied modem that capable of providing network
> via NIC and via USB. And if I connect both - I receive two valid IPs via
> DHCP..

Only at Matav and only when your ISP does not force the use of dialer
(aka you connect using DHCP). And you are limited to 3 public IP
addresses, but those can turn to be in different subnets.

Guy

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Re: Cable Internet, 012, and what's between it...

[Guy Teverovsky]

On Wed, 2003-12-10 at 00:33, Shaul Karl wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 09, 2003 at 11:07:37PM +0200, Dan Fruehauf wrote:
> >
> > move to another ISP, Netvision Probably. (in short - 
> > because they told me they can fix me a static ip and i wouldnt have to add 
> > any $$).
> > 
> 
> 
>   I want to know if this is the case. I hope that I am not the only one.

Netvision (or any other ISP accept Actcom) does not give static IPs.
What they can give you is static IP in cables network (actually they
will tell you to talk to cable company to do that).

The idea behind static IP (actually, just VERY long DHCP lease) is to
make dumb home routers, that do not have DHCP+PPTP functionality,
connect through PPTP.

In any case, you can connect to Netvision using either PPTP or L2TP
protocol.

Guy

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Re: Cable Internet, 012, and what's between it...

[Alex Chudnovsky]

On Wednesday 10 December 2003 21:59, Ehud Karni wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 20:56:12 +0200, Alex Chudnovsky 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > It may not work. Be very careful when you purchase such router. The
> > stores are full with Edimax routers that DO NOT WORK with cable Internet
> > Israeli edition for some very simple reason - their configuration
> > possibilities are very limited. They allow you to choose either DHCP or
> > PPTP, but not BOTH and, of course, not one above another.
>
> That depends on the router. I bought a very cheap Edimax (6104 K) for
> less then 250 NIS. It has both L2TP and PPTP with dynamic IP (i.e. a
> DHCP client). So far, it works flawlessly (I'm connected through it to
> a Cable modem). It also has a special support for "BEZEQ-Israel".
>
I have a regular 6104. May you tell me how you configured your router to use 
BOTH DHCP and PPTP? I've encountered only the option of using either this or 
that.

-- 

Regards,
Alex Chudnovsky
e-mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ICQ : 35559910


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Re: Cable Internet, 012, and what's between it...

[Ehud Karni]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 20:56:12 +0200, Alex Chudnovsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Wednesday 10 December 2003 11:31, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > 6. Another option is to get a xDSL router. It will do all the dialup & NAT
> > & FW work for you. This way the changes in your home network are minors.
>
> It may not work. Be very careful when you purchase such router. The stores are
> full with Edimax routers that DO NOT WORK with cable Internet Israeli edition
> for some very simple reason - their configuration possibilities are very
> limited. They allow you to choose either DHCP or PPTP, but not BOTH and, of
> course, not one above another.

That depends on the router. I bought a very cheap Edimax (6104 K) for
less then 250 NIS. It has both L2TP and PPTP with dynamic IP (i.e. a
DHCP client). So far, it works flawlessly (I'm connected through it to
a Cable modem). It also has a special support for "BEZEQ-Israel".

Its operation as a switch are less satisfactory (I just tested it and
its throughput is less than 20 Mbits on 100 Mbits connections).

Ehud.


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Re: Cable Internet, 012, and what's between it...

[Alex Chudnovsky]

On Wednesday 10 December 2003 11:31, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Hi,
>
> 6. Another option is to get a xDSL router. It will do all the dialup & NAT
> & FW work for you. This way the changes in your home network are minors.

It may not work. Be very careful when you purchase such router. The stores are 
full with Edimax routers that DO NOT WORK with cable Internet Israeli edition 
for some very simple reason - their configuration possibilities are very 
limited. They allow you to choose either DHCP or PPTP, but not BOTH and, of 
course, not one above another. 
Purchasing such a router for my small home network of 2 PCs plus me being 
extremely bored of seeing a lot of unrequested "martian" packets travelling 
freely along the DHCP-driven circle, or Windows XP connecting through "shared 
connection" of another cable user and not via "lawful" PPTP connection, 
finally made me to switch to ADSL. Surprise, surprise - the router works 
almost perfectly ( it needs to be reset sometimes, after prolonged use of p2p 
programs that create a lot of connections).

>
> Best Regards
>
> Yehoram Ben-Yaacov
>
>

-- 

Regards,
Alex Chudnovsky
e-mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ICQ : 35559910


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Re: Slow KDE?

[Behdad Esfahbod]

Never call a system slow again just because of 90 seconds on
startup.  That startup time is almost always between 1 and 2
minutes, but that's not your system's speed, nor bottleneck.  Why
do you need to turn it off?

behdad

On Wed, 10 Dec 2003, Amichai Rotman wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I used to have a Celleron 850 MHz with 128 MB RAM. My systemwas slow.
> Understandable...
>
> No I own a Compaq Presario 2540 EA with a P4 2.66 GHz and 512 MB RAM...
>
> The system is still slo...
>
> Where should I look for possible culprits?
>
> I have MDK 9.2 with KDE 3.1.3 and it takes the system to come up from
> power-up to after-restoring-session (including a fast logon at the KDM
> manager) about 90 secs (!)
>
> What could it be?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Amichai Rotman.

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RE: Cable Internet, 012, and what's between it...

[Baruch Shpirer]

You can force AZTV to give you dhcp connection with no dialer
That's the simple way to solve this

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Ehud Karni
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 3:45 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Cable Internet, 012, and what's between it...

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Tue, 9 Dec 2003 23:07:37 +0200, Dan Fruehauf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> Recently (actually today) i acquired a broadband cable connection 
> through the new (and pretty tempting) deal of AZTV and 012.net. i'm 
> not going to promote their sales, but in short, you pay them, and they 
> give you broadband internet access, in a low price.

I did the transition from Bezeq ADSL to AZTV + Barak last week for the same
financial reason.

> In order to make sure i could connect through linux, i called 012 
> support line, and asked about their method of connection. I was told 
> that the authentication is done via DHCP, using the cable modem. 
> forgetting to ask for the name of the person that helped me with that, 
> i got cables installed today and after the basic installation the 
> technition showed me how to connect using WindowsXP (yuck.).
> The connection was done via some kind of a dialer that uses L2TP.

I think you have some misunderstanding. The cable modem gets its IP (I think
it is internal for cable network, its in the 172.25.0.0 subnet) by DHCP. It
passes that address to dialing device (computer, router), also by DHCP. The
dialing device connect to the ISP gateway by L2TP (or
PPTP) creating a VPN (see also Geoff and Michael Sternberg mails).

> Unconcerned i dialed 012 again, asking them how can i connect with the 
> method promised to me - dhcp. what i mainly got was some lame excuses, 
> and that i should connect with a dialer and that connecting via DHCP 
> is deprecated (one of their excuses was that it is unstable and 
> insecure). Not getting into details, it is probably possible to 
> connect via linux to 012, but why should we? - when other isps give you
your DHCP without arguing...
> While writing this email, i didnt disconnect from 012, but i'm willing 
> to, mainly because one of the comments i got from their support, 
> translating to english it was something in the form of : "hey, if you 
> disable DHCP access and move everybody to dialers and such, people not 
> using windows will be unable to connect through you, it might be even 10%
of your users"
> "we dont care, they are probably very few..."
> About promising me DHCP... just because i didnt write the name of the 
> helpdesk dude that told me it's DHCP, i half way lost my 012 DHCP 
> access, and besides, which linux user would like to stay in an ISP 
> that doesnt give a damn  about him or his convienience? ;/
>
> My point is, that as members of this list, and linux users as well, 
> beware of the evil 012, and the way they treat linux users. Tomorrow 
> i'll probably disconnect from 012 and move to another ISP, Netvision 
> Probably. (in short - because they told me they can fix me a static ip 
> and i wouldnt have to add any $$).

My experience is different.

As mentioned above I chose Barak as the ISP. I intended to use a
switch-router (to connect 3/4 computers CONSTANTLY) so when I talked to the
cable guys I assured I get an Ethernet modem (It turned out that their modem
has both Ethernet and USB connections).

I had a router to play with, this one did not have L2TP protocol dialer, so
I called Barak and IMMEDIATELY they switched me to PPTP.
That did not help because when the router dialed with PPTP it needed a
static IP. I went and replaced it with switch-router that had L2TP (BTW,
there are at least 2 switch-routers under 300 NIS that have both L2TP and
PPTP dialers, and can get their IP by DHCP). I called Barak again and asked
to return me to the L2TP protocol, the support guy convinced me that PPTP is
better and helped me configure it (on a Windoz XP, just to be sure that it
works). After that I configured the router and now everything works fine.

I have some conclusions:
1. Call the support at about 8:00 in the morning, at that hour they
   are not busy and have all the time to be with you.
   NEVER, NEVER call in the evening if you can.
2. Ask/request from the support only what they SURLY knows (how to
   use PPTP from the Windows machine, not how to configure the router
   or a Mac/Linux)
3. Don't abandon your old connection to the Internet until the new one
   works (I had both Cable and phone ADSL for a week).
4. Sometimes (may be most of the time) It is cheaper to work around a
   problem than to solve it in its original framework (in this case -
   an external dialer for Linux instead of an internal software dialer,
   although I KNOW there are L2TP/PPTP dialers for Linux - just google
   for "PPTP linux" and "L2TP linux").
5. As Yehoram Ben-Yaacov said - "Don't waste time on getting mad on ...
   Think what is the best

Slow KDE?

[Amichai Rotman]

Hi all,

I used to have a Celleron 850 MHz with 128 MB RAM. My systemwas slow. 
Understandable...

No I own a Compaq Presario 2540 EA with a P4 2.66 GHz and 512 MB RAM...

The system is still slo...

Where should I look for possible culprits?

I have MDK 9.2 with KDE 3.1.3 and it takes the system to come up from 
power-up to after-restoring-session (including a fast logon at the KDM 
manager) about 90 secs (!)

What could it be?

Thanks,

Amichai Rotman.
 


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Re: [KINDERGARDEN]

[Ben-Nes Michael]

> Quoth Ben-Nes Michael:
>
> > to all with small penis in the list, I get tons of enlarge your pines
using
> > patch pills or what ever. ill be happy to forward it to any one or the
list
>
> Come to think of it, I would be delighted to enlarge my pine. I would
> not be averse to enlarching my large (or vice versa, I forget). Speaking
> of pines, what about coconuts? Do you have anything for coconuts?
>
sure , why not. we enlarge evrything from penis to trees.

put it in the floppy and sent it to me as an attachment :P

now this is what i like in the list. its very mature :)

> -- 
> ---OFCNL
> This is MY list. This list belongs to ME! I will flame anyone I want.
> Official Flamer/Cabal NON-Leader
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>



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Re: Cable Internet, 012, and what's between it...

[Yoni Rabkin Katzenell]

On Wed, Dec 10, 2003 at 01:38:39PM +0200, Shachar Shemesh wrote:
> Micha Feigin wrote:
> 
> >Even one of their supervisors agreed that their customer support is
> >terrible.
> > 
> >
> They often don't have a choice. Every so often you hit someone who will 
> tell you so. Don't try to carry it further - the man may lose his job.
> 
> >Anyway, if you can tell what modem it is, maybe it is possible to
> >connect it with Linux anyway (although I would suggest moving to
> >another company if you can).
> > 
> >
> The problem is that most of them are like that. The only exception I 
> personally know are actcom. Even that comes at a price. Their quality 
> comes at the expense of quantity. You often wait quite a while for them 
> to pick up the line. At least it's a toll-free number (only one in 
> Israel, as far as I know, to have a toll free support number).
> 
> This is not to say that my experience with them has been totally problem 
> free. Just that they seem, on the face of it, better than most.
> 
> Shachar
> 
> -- 
> Shachar Shemesh
> Open Source integration & consulting
> Home page & resume - http://www.shemesh.biz/
> 

I second Shachar's notion that Actcom are a lesser evil. I've been
with them for the past year or so with no problems under Linux

> 
> 
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> 

-- 
"Cut your own wood and it will warm you twice"
Regards, Yoni Rabkin Katzenell


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Description: PGP signature

Re: no VC switching after X servcer crash

[Tzafrir Cohen]

On Wed, Dec 10, 2003 at 04:08:17PM +0200, Hetz Ben Hamo wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> 1. Why do you use the old "nv" driver instead of the binary nvidia kernel? as 
> much as I know, the latter is maintained much more tightly by Mark Vojkovich 
> (from Nvidia).

And depend on a binary kernel module? And bother integrate it with my
own kernel RPM? Not worth the trouble. 

But I did notice later that RedHat issued a later version of XFree, and
I have installed it.

> 
> 2. Remove any stuff like DRI (nvidia uses GLX) and try without the v4l 
> extension - see if this works for you...

Actually I should probably remove it anyway, as I don't need it.

-- 
Tzafrir Cohen   +---+
http://www.technion.ac.il/~tzafrir/ |vim is a mutt's best friend|
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]   +---+

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[KINDERGARDEN OFFTOPIC] (was: Re: [KINDERGARDEN])

[Omer Zak]

The day our The Mark Himself, The Frightening Esteemed Official Flamer
stooped down and emitted foul-smelling spelling flames, is the day we gave
up our exciting, honorable and intelligent adult adventures and reduced
ourselves to the little, trivial, tiny and plain pleasures and delights of
kindergarden children.
 --- Omer
My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone.
They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which
I may be affiliated in any way.
WARNING TO SPAMMERS:  at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html

On Wed, 10 Dec 2003, Official Flamer/Cabal NON-Leader wrote:

> Quoth Ben-Nes Michael:
>
> > to all with small penis in the list, I get tons of enlarge your pines using
> > patch pills or what ever. ill be happy to forward it to any one or the list
>
> Come to think of it, I would be delighted to enlarge my pine. I would
> not be averse to enlarching my large (or vice versa, I forget). Speaking
> of pines, what about coconuts? Do you have anything for coconuts?


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Re: [KINDERGARDEN]

[Gilad Ben-Yossef]

On Wednesday 10 December 2003 17:15, Official Flamer/Cabal NON-Leader 
wrote:
> Quoth Ben-Nes Michael:
> > to all with small penis in the list, I get tons of enlarge your pines
> > using patch pills or what ever. ill be happy to forward it to any one
> > or the list
>
> Come to think of it, I would be delighted to enlarge my pine. I would
> not be averse to enlarching my large (or vice versa, I forget). Speaking
> of pines, what about coconuts? Do you have anything for coconuts?

Actually, I pine for a coco, nut.

Gilad

-- 
Gilad Ben-Yossef <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Codefidence. A name you can trust (tm)
http://www.codefidence.com

"Half of one of my eyes is already open. I'm going to make coffee now..."
-- Kathi 16:08:04


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Re: [KINDERGARDEN]

[Official Flamer/Cabal NON-Leader]

Quoth Ben-Nes Michael:

> to all with small penis in the list, I get tons of enlarge your pines using
> patch pills or what ever. ill be happy to forward it to any one or the list

Come to think of it, I would be delighted to enlarge my pine. I would
not be averse to enlarching my large (or vice versa, I forget). Speaking
of pines, what about coconuts? Do you have anything for coconuts?

-- 
---OFCNL
This is MY list. This list belongs to ME! I will flame anyone I want.
Official Flamer/Cabal NON-Leader  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: no VC switching after X servcer crash

[Hetz Ben Hamo]

Hi,

1. Why do you use the old "nv" driver instead of the binary nvidia kernel? as 
much as I know, the latter is maintained much more tightly by Mark Vojkovich 
(from Nvidia).

2. Remove any stuff like DRI (nvidia uses GLX) and try without the v4l 
extension - see if this works for you...

Thanks,
Hetz

> System: RedHat 7.3, XFree86-4.2.1-13.73.3, kernel 4.2.22 (self
> compiled).
> 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation RIVA TNT2 Model 64
> (rev 15) (prog-if 00 [VGA]) Flags: bus master, 66Mhz, medium devsel,
> latency 32, IRQ 11 Memory at fd00 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=16M]
> Memory at f200 (32-bit, prefetchable) [size=32M]
> Expansion ROM at fe9f [disabled] [size=64K]
> Capabilities: [60] Power Management version 1
> Capabilities: [44] AGP version 2.0
>
> In XF86Config-4:
> Section "Module"
> Load  "dbe" # Double-buffering
> Load  "GLcore"  # OpenGL support
> Load  "dri" # Direct rendering infrastructure
> Load  "glx" # OpenGL X protocol interface
> Load  "extmod"  # Misc. required extensions
> Load  "v4l" # Video4Linux
> # Load  "record"# X event recorder
> # You only need the following two modules if you do not use xfs.
> Load  "freetype" # TrueType font handler
> Load  "type1"   # Adobe Type 1 font handler
> EndSection
>   [snip]
> Section "Device"
> Identifier "RIVA TNT2"
> Driver "nv"
> BoardName "Unknown"
> EndSection
>
> $ /sbin/lsmod
> Module  Size  Used byNot tainted
> nfsd   75392   8 (autoclean)
> autofs 11076   1 (autoclean)
> nfs72156   3 (autoclean)
> lockd  55456   1 (autoclean) [nfsd nfs]
> sunrpc 77300   1 (autoclean) [nfsd nfs lockd]
> eepro100   20524   1
> mii 3736   0 [eepro100]
> ide-cd 32032   0 (autoclean)
> cdrom  32032   0 (autoclean) [ide-cd]
> nls_iso8859-1   3488   3 (autoclean)
> loop   10128   9 (autoclean)
>
>
> Any other relevant details?

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Re: Cable Internet, 012, and what's between it...

[Ehud Karni]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Tue, 9 Dec 2003 23:07:37 +0200, Dan Fruehauf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Recently (actually today) i acquired a broadband cable connection through the
> new (and pretty tempting) deal of AZTV and 012.net. i'm not going to promote
> their sales, but in short, you pay them, and they give you broadband internet
> access, in a low price.

I did the transition from Bezeq ADSL to AZTV + Barak last week for the
same financial reason.

> In order to make sure i could connect through linux, i called 012 support
> line, and asked about their method of connection. I was told that the
> authentication is done via DHCP, using the cable modem. forgetting to ask for
> the name of the person that helped me with that, i got cables installed today
> and after the basic installation the technition showed me how to connect
> using WindowsXP (yuck.).
> The connection was done via some kind of a dialer that uses L2TP.

I think you have some misunderstanding. The cable modem gets its IP (I
think it is internal for cable network, its in the 172.25.0.0 subnet)
by DHCP. It passes that address to dialing device (computer, router),
also by DHCP. The dialing device connect to the ISP gateway by L2TP (or
PPTP) creating a VPN (see also Geoff and Michael Sternberg mails).

> Unconcerned i dialed 012 again, asking them how can i connect with the method
> promised to me - dhcp. what i mainly got was some lame excuses, and that i
> should connect with a dialer and that connecting via DHCP is deprecated (one
> of their excuses was that it is unstable and insecure). Not getting into
> details, it is probably possible to connect via linux to 012, but why should
> we? - when other isps give you your DHCP without arguing...
> While writing this email, i didnt disconnect from 012, but i'm willing to,
> mainly because one of the comments i got from their support, translating to
> english it was something in the form of : "hey, if you disable DHCP access
> and move everybody to dialers and such, people not using windows will be
> unable to connect through you, it might be even 10% of your users"
> "we dont care, they are probably very few..."
> About promising me DHCP... just because i didnt write the name of the helpdesk
> dude that told me it's DHCP, i half way lost my 012 DHCP access, and besides,
> which linux user would like to stay in an ISP that doesnt give a damn 
> about him or his convienience? ;/
>
> My point is, that as members of this list, and linux users as well, beware of
> the evil 012, and the way they treat linux users. Tomorrow i'll probably
> disconnect from 012 and move to another ISP, Netvision Probably. (in short -
> because they told me they can fix me a static ip and i wouldnt have to add
> any $$).

My experience is different.

As mentioned above I chose Barak as the ISP. I intended to use a
switch-router (to connect 3/4 computers CONSTANTLY) so when I talked
to the cable guys I assured I get an Ethernet modem (It turned out
that their modem has both Ethernet and USB connections).

I had a router to play with, this one did not have L2TP protocol
dialer, so I called Barak and IMMEDIATELY they switched me to PPTP.
That did not help because when the router dialed with PPTP it needed
a static IP. I went and replaced it with switch-router that had L2TP
(BTW, there are at least 2 switch-routers under 300 NIS that have both
L2TP and PPTP dialers, and can get their IP by DHCP). I called Barak
again and asked to return me to the L2TP protocol, the support guy
convinced me that PPTP is better and helped me configure it (on a
Windoz XP, just to be sure that it works). After that I configured
the router and now everything works fine.

I have some conclusions:
1. Call the support at about 8:00 in the morning, at that hour they
   are not busy and have all the time to be with you.
   NEVER, NEVER call in the evening if you can.
2. Ask/request from the support only what they SURLY knows (how to
   use PPTP from the Windows machine, not how to configure the router
   or a Mac/Linux)
3. Don't abandon your old connection to the Internet until the new one
   works (I had both Cable and phone ADSL for a week).
4. Sometimes (may be most of the time) It is cheaper to work around a
   problem than to solve it in its original framework (in this case -
   an external dialer for Linux instead of an internal software dialer,
   although I KNOW there are L2TP/PPTP dialers for Linux - just google
   for "PPTP linux" and "L2TP linux").
5. As Yehoram Ben-Yaacov said - "Don't waste time on getting mad on ...
   Think what is the best way for you to live with it".

Ehud.


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Re: no VC switching after X servcer crash

[Matan Ziv-Av]

On Wed, 10 Dec 2003, Tzafrir Cohen wrote:

> It happens that I press Ctrl-Alt-Backspace unintentionally. This sad 
> event brings the end of a long X session with all of its programs. 
> However on my current system it also causes much more instability.

There is always the DontZap option.

> Symptom: I can't switch to a different virtual console. Any attempt to
> do so aeems to hang the display.  My system is in runlevel 3. So when 
> the X server ends it should go the console that started the session.
> However it remains stuck on that terminal. I fail to switch to any
> console.

Is the screen in text mode, or graphics mode? If graphics, run mode3 or 
vgareset to restore text mode.

Anything in /var/log/XFree86.0.log?

Maybe the keyboard is stuck in raw mode - use SysRq-R to return to 
cooked mode.

> On the logs I see:
> 
> Dec 10 13:24:46 alexander modprobe: modprobe: Can't locate module char-major-10-134
> Dec 10 13:24:46 alexander modprobe: modprobe: Can't locate module char-major-81

c 10 134 is apm_bios, c 81 is v4l. Does not seem relevant to the 
problem.

> System: RedHat 7.3, XFree86-4.2.1-13.73.3, kernel 4.2.22 (self
> compiled). 

Since you have X related problems, why not try a newer XFree86? 


-- 
Matan Ziv-Av. [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: no VC switching after X servcer crash

[linux-il]

Tzafrir Cohen wrote:
Hi all

It happens that I press Ctrl-Alt-Backspace unintentionally. This sad 
event brings the end of a long X session with all of its programs. 
However on my current system it also causes much more instability.

Symptom: I can't switch to a different virtual console. Any attempt to
Qhat key sequences do you try to use for the switch? The console one
or the X11 one?
--Amos

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no VC switching after X servcer crash

[Tzafrir Cohen]

Hi all

It happens that I press Ctrl-Alt-Backspace unintentionally. This sad 
event brings the end of a long X session with all of its programs. 
However on my current system it also causes much more instability.

Symptom: I can't switch to a different virtual console. Any attempt to
do so aeems to hang the display.  My system is in runlevel 3. So when 
the X server ends it should go the console that started the session.
However it remains stuck on that terminal. I fail to switch to any
console.

The usual remedy of logging out remotely and killing some mingetty-s (to
get them to reset the console) doesn't even work. The only thing that
seems to work is starting a new X server (for that I disabled the
limitation that only local users may run startx). The session seems
fine. If I don't try to switch to a different console.

This only seems to be solved by a reboot.

On the logs I see:

Dec 10 13:21:23 alexander modprobe: modprobe: Can't locate module char-major-10-134
Dec 10 13:21:24 alexander modprobe: modprobe: Can't locate module char-major-81
Dec 10 13:22:51 alexander modprobe: modprobe: Can't locate module char-major-10-134
Dec 10 13:22:51 alexander modprobe: modprobe: Can't locate module char-major-81
Dec 10 13:24:46 alexander modprobe: modprobe: Can't locate module char-major-10-134
Dec 10 13:24:46 alexander modprobe: modprobe: Can't locate module char-major-81


I have no idea if this is anything related at all. But I don't see
anything else at that time.

System: RedHat 7.3, XFree86-4.2.1-13.73.3, kernel 4.2.22 (self
compiled). 
01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation RIVA TNT2 Model 64 (rev 15) 
(prog-if 00 [VGA])
Flags: bus master, 66Mhz, medium devsel, latency 32, IRQ 11
Memory at fd00 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=16M]
Memory at f200 (32-bit, prefetchable) [size=32M]
Expansion ROM at fe9f [disabled] [size=64K]
Capabilities: [60] Power Management version 1
Capabilities: [44] AGP version 2.0

In XF86Config-4: 
Section "Module"
Load  "dbe" # Double-buffering
Load  "GLcore"  # OpenGL support
Load  "dri" # Direct rendering infrastructure
Load  "glx" # OpenGL X protocol interface
Load  "extmod"  # Misc. required extensions
Load  "v4l" # Video4Linux
# Load  "record"# X event recorder
# You only need the following two modules if you do not use xfs.
Load  "freetype" # TrueType font handler
Load  "type1"   # Adobe Type 1 font handler
EndSection
  [snip]
Section "Device"
Identifier "RIVA TNT2"
Driver "nv"
BoardName "Unknown"
EndSection

$ /sbin/lsmod 
Module  Size  Used byNot tainted
nfsd   75392   8 (autoclean)
autofs 11076   1 (autoclean)
nfs72156   3 (autoclean)
lockd  55456   1 (autoclean) [nfsd nfs]
sunrpc 77300   1 (autoclean) [nfsd nfs lockd]
eepro100   20524   1
mii 3736   0 [eepro100]
ide-cd 32032   0 (autoclean)
cdrom  32032   0 (autoclean) [ide-cd]
nls_iso8859-1   3488   3 (autoclean)
loop   10128   9 (autoclean)


Any other relevant details?


-- 
Tzafrir Cohen   +---+
http://www.technion.ac.il/~tzafrir/ |vim is a mutt's best friend|
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]   +---+

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Re: Cable Internet, 012, and what's between it...

[Shachar Shemesh]

Micha Feigin wrote:

Even one of their supervisors agreed that their customer support is
terrible.
 

They often don't have a choice. Every so often you hit someone who will 
tell you so. Don't try to carry it further - the man may lose his job.

Anyway, if you can tell what modem it is, maybe it is possible to
connect it with Linux anyway (although I would suggest moving to
another company if you can).
 

The problem is that most of them are like that. The only exception I 
personally know are actcom. Even that comes at a price. Their quality 
comes at the expense of quantity. You often wait quite a while for them 
to pick up the line. At least it's a toll-free number (only one in 
Israel, as far as I know, to have a toll free support number).

This is not to say that my experience with them has been totally problem 
free. Just that they seem, on the face of it, better than most.

Shachar

--
Shachar Shemesh
Open Source integration & consulting
Home page & resume - http://www.shemesh.biz/


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RE: Cable Internet, 012, and what's between it...

[YBEN]

I'm not sure they are in the business of R&D. Solution --> money --> FAST ;)

Btw, some of them moved from pptp to l2tp since it is lighter protocol and
the equipment is chipper.

Check this site:
http://www.netguru.co.il/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=3
7


Best Regards

Yehoram Ben-Yaacov


-Original Message-
From: Tzafrir Cohen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wed, December 10, 2003 13:20
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Linux-IL mailing list
Subject: Re: Cable Internet, 012, and what's between it...

On Wed, Dec 10, 2003 at 11:31:47AM +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Hi,
>
> >From some contact I had with the cable companies I know that:
> 1. All of them are in the progress of switching to some sort of dialup
> connection - Over cable it will be pptp or l2tp.
> 2. The dialup connection has not been done in any way to help the
customers.
> It is only to help the ISPs to prevent unauthorized people to connect to
> their networks (1. MAC cloning.

So why no identify a client by its modem ID? Or the phisical connection?
Surely it is something they can resolve, if they want to.

> 2. some cable modem let you get up to 4 IP
> addresses from the ISP, which means you can connect 4 PC to the ISP
> directly. They don't like it...). If you get anything from it (Which I
know
> we are not) then good for you :)

Again, bad bookkeeping by the dhcp server

--
Tzafrir Cohen   +---+
http://www.technion.ac.il/~tzafrir/ |vim is a mutt's best friend|
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]   +---+

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Re: Cable Internet, 012, and what's between it...

[Tzafrir Cohen]

On Wed, Dec 10, 2003 at 11:31:47AM +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> >From some contact I had with the cable companies I know that:
> 1. All of them are in the progress of switching to some sort of dialup
> connection - Over cable it will be pptp or l2tp.
> 2. The dialup connection has not been done in any way to help the customers.
> It is only to help the ISPs to prevent unauthorized people to connect to
> their networks (1. MAC cloning. 

So why no identify a client by its modem ID? Or the phisical connection?
Surely it is something they can resolve, if they want to.

> 2. some cable modem let you get up to 4 IP
> addresses from the ISP, which means you can connect 4 PC to the ISP
> directly. They don't like it...). If you get anything from it (Which I know
> we are not) then good for you :)

Again, bad bookkeeping by the dhcp server

-- 
Tzafrir Cohen   +---+
http://www.technion.ac.il/~tzafrir/ |vim is a mutt's best friend|
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]   +---+

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Re: Cable Internet, 012, and what's between it...

[Micha Feigin]

On Tue, Dec 09, 2003 at 11:07:37PM +0200, Dan Fruehauf wrote:
> Recently (actually today) i acquired a broadband cable connection through the 
> new (and pretty tempting) deal of AZTV and 012.net. i'm not going to promote 
> their sales, but in short, you pay them, and they give you broadband internet 
> access, in a low price.
> In order to make sure i could connect through linux, i called 012 support 
> line, and asked about their method of connection. I was told that the 
> authentication is done via DHCP, using the cable modem. forgetting to ask for 
> the name of the person that helped me with that, i got cables installed today 
> and after the basic installation the technition showed me how to connect 
> using WindowsXP (yuck.).
> The connection was done via some kind of a dialer that uses L2TP.
> Unconcerned i dialed 012 again, asking them how can i connect with the method 
> promised to me - dhcp. what i mainly got was some lame excuses, and that i 
> should connect with a dialer and that connecting via DHCP is deprecated (one 
> of their excuses was that it is unstable and insecure). Not getting into 
> details, it is probably possible to connect via linux to 012, but why should 
> we? - when other isps give you your DHCP without arguing...
> While writing this email, i didnt disconnect from 012, but i'm willing to, 
> mainly because one of the comments i got from their support, translating to 
> english it was something in the form of : "hey, if you disable DHCP access 
> and move everybody to dialers and such, people not using windows will be 
> unable to connect through you, it might be even 10% of your users"
> "we dont care, they are probably very few..."
> About promising me DHCP... just because i didnt write the name of the helpdesk 
> dude that told me it's DHCP, i half way lost my 012 DHCP access, and besides, 
> which linux user would like to stay in an ISP that doesnt give a damn  
> about him or his convienience? ;/
> 
> My point is, that as members of this list, and linux users as well, beware of 
> the evil 012, and the way they treat linux users. Tomorrow i'll probably 
> disconnect from 012 and move to another ISP, Netvision Probably. (in short - 
> because they told me they can fix me a static ip and i wouldnt have to add 
> any $$).
> 
> Take care.
> -- 
> Dan Fruehauf.
> 

>From some bad experience with them I can tell you that the customer
service of 012 is one of the worst I have seen (they disconnected an
extra dial in account I kept id addition to Adsl without asking, took a
week and a half to agree to reconnect, tried to charged for that time
and then tried to charge for an extra account they apparently thorough
in and didn't tell me).
Even one of their supervisors agreed that their customer support is
terrible.
Anyway, if you can tell what modem it is, maybe it is possible to
connect it with Linux anyway (although I would suggest moving to
another company if you can).
> 
> =
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> the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command
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> 

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Re: [Solved] Re: thunderbird links - the saga continues...

[Alon Weinstein]

Lior Kesos wrote:

> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>>
>> Have you reportted to Bugzilla that the bug is not resolved?
>>
> No, but I contacted darin fisher which wrote the script.
> He/She(?) told me that using Firebird 0.7 isn't enough and that I 
need to a 0.7 nightly build.
> So I went and downloaded the firebird nightly build and with the 
script refrenced before and thunderbird-0.4 - it finally works!
> So I'm a much more relaxed and happy *bird user now my main itch has 
been scratched .
>

Fun indeed. Here's a little enhancment tip for all the now-happier-*Bird 
users.

The suggested script in bugzilla always replaces the currently-focused 
URL with the URL you're opening. If you want to open a new tab or a new 
window instead, use the following:



#!/bin/sh

MODE_DEFAULT=new-window
#MODE_DEFAULT=new-tab
export MOZILLA_FIVE_HOME=/home/alon/bin/MozillaFirebird
export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=$LD_LIBRARY_PATH:$MOZILLA_FIVE_HOME
# get URL to load
url=$1; [ -z $url ] && url=about:blank
fbmode=$2; [ -z $fbmode ] && fbmode=MODE_DEFAULT
# try xremote first
$MOZILLA_FIVE_HOME/mozilla-xremote-client openURL\($url,$fbmode\) && exit 0
# if xremote failed, then launch the browser
exec $MOZILLA_FIVE_HOME/MozillaFirebird "$url"


This is a modified version of the script from bugzilla. It takes a 
second argument for the way to open the new URL -- new-window will open 
in a new window, and new-tab will open in a new tab. If only a URL is 
given (that is no 2nd argument), then the value if MODE_DEFAULT is used 
-- select which one you prefer. Note that you have to give either a URL 
and an open mode, or only a URL.
Naturally the 2nd argument will be ignored if Firebird is not opened 
when the script runs.

Have fun.

Alon.



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Re: The Standard Institute of Israel

[meorero]

[This maybe a little 'off topic', but still related, I guess:]

Products sold by “sii.org.il” are limiting: 
They are compatible only for IE (version>=6) and only for Acrobat Reader >=5.0

I’m talking here about a CD entitled (Hebrew) as:
Israeli Standards – Structure Engineering (‘Handassath – Mivnim’)
My father brought it home to use it at his daily work two weeks ago. 
I’ve e-mailed them and asked:  
Why do they request using IE (and in particular version>=6) ? 
There was no answer…

Oren Maurer


<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: The Standard Institute of Israel

Plz elaborate what the silly numbers actually mean.
I am not a walking ISO manual, u know :)

- Original Message - 
From: "Gil Freund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "My Own Private List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 11:15 PM
Subject: Re: The Standard Institute of Israel


> Well, only the fulfillment of Israeli Standards 1904, 1311, 4281 and
> 1489 as specified by comity 2109 :)
>
> Gil
>
> Oleg Kobets wrote:
>
> > What did you expect, really ?
> > Did you though they would run Linux with a message on their site saying:
> > "Best viewed with Konqueror 3.0" ???
> >
> > Naive.
> >
> > Btw, they do run UNIX (namely solaris) in there. Just not the for the
web.
> >
> > - Original Message - 
> > From: "Gil Freund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 8:59 PM
> > Subject: The Standard Institute of Israel
> >
> >
> >
> >>Take a look at the left side of the home page:
> >>
http://www.sii.org.il/siisite.nsf/HomePage?OpenForm
> >>
> >>and netcraft tells us:
> >>The site www.sii.org.il  is running Lotus-Domino/0 on AS/400.
> >>
> >>Shiver
> >>
> >>Gil
> >>-- 
> >>=
> >>Gil Freund  Sysnet consulting
> >>-
http://www.sysnet.co.il
> >>voice: +972-52-676906 Fax: +972-8-9356026
> >>=
> >>
> >>
> >>=
> >>To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
> >>the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command
> >>echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> -- 
> =
> Gil Freund  Sysnet consulting
> -
http://www.sysnet.co.il
> voice: +972-52-676906 Fax: +972-8-9356026
> =
>
>
> =
> To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
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>
>
>



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   Maurer Oren 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

---
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http://mail.walla.co.il



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Re: BitchX on Fedora core 1

[Muli Ben-Yehuda]

On Wed, Dec 10, 2003 at 10:53:28AM +0200, Erez Kirson wrote:
> Hi all
> 
> Has anyone installed BitchX ( ircii-pana-1.0c19.tar.gz ) on Fedora core 1 ? 
> the "/configure" part was clean but it breaks on gmake
> 
> For some reason im getting 
> 
> 
> status.c:1245:14: pasting "status_user18" and "(" does not give a valid 
> preprocessing token
> status.c:1246:14: pasting "status_user19" and "(" does not give a valid 
> preprocessing token
> gmake[1]: *** [status.o] Error 1
> gmake[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/redhat/SOURCES/BitchX/source'
> gmake: *** [BitchX] Error 2

Sounds like gcc-3.2.x doesn't like BithcX's source. This should be
trivial to fix manually, though. Look for something like

#define STUSER18 "stuser18"
#define PAREN "("
printf(STUSER18 PAREN); 

and change it to 
printf("%s%s\n", STUSER18, PAREN); 

Cheers, 
Muli 
-- 
Muli Ben-Yehuda
http://www.mulix.org | http://mulix.livejournal.com/

"the nucleus of linux oscillates my world" - [EMAIL PROTECTED]



signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

RE: Cable Internet, 012, and what's between it...

[YBEN]

Hi,

>From some contact I had with the cable companies I know that:
1. All of them are in the progress of switching to some sort of dialup
connection - Over cable it will be pptp or l2tp.
2. The dialup connection has not been done in any way to help the customers.
It is only to help the ISPs to prevent unauthorized people to connect to
their networks (1. MAC cloning. 2. some cable modem let you get up to 4 IP
addresses from the ISP, which means you can connect 4 PC to the ISP
directly. They don't like it...). If you get anything from it (Which I know
we are not) then good for you :)
3. The transfer to the dialup includes the ISP and the carrier (Cable
companies in this case) and I know that in some areas they still didn't
switch to it.
4. If you have only one station attached to the ISP try to get pptp modem.
You can find somel2tp projects but from what I saw they are still not
mature.
5. If you are connecting several stations then turn one of them to a router.
Don't worry about the MTU. Set the MTU and MRU in the dialer to 1450. In the
iptables add "iptables -A FORWARD -p tcp --tcp-flags SYN,RST SYN -j TCPMSS
--clamp-mss-to-pmtu" so you will not have to change the MTU to all the LAN
stations. I hope I wrote the line right ;)
6. Another option is to get a xDSL router. It will do all the dialup & NAT &
FW work for you. This way the changes in your home network are minors.
7. Remember that in option 5 all the LAN is behind NAT.
8. About security. Well it doesn't matter if you are using DHCP or dialup.
You get a real IP address, which means the world can see you. I strongly
recommend using the firewall.

Any way, don't waste time on getting mad on 012. All the ISPs are going to
do it. Think what is the best way for you to live with it ;)

Best Regards

Yehoram Ben-Yaacov


-Original Message-
From: Dan Fruehauf [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tue, December 09, 2003 23:08
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Cable Internet, 012, and what's between it...

Recently (actually today) i acquired a broadband cable connection through
the
new (and pretty tempting) deal of AZTV and 012.net. i'm not going to promote
their sales, but in short, you pay them, and they give you broadband
internet
access, in a low price.
In order to make sure i could connect through linux, i called 012 support
line, and asked about their method of connection. I was told that the
authentication is done via DHCP, using the cable modem. forgetting to ask
for
the name of the person that helped me with that, i got cables installed
today
and after the basic installation the technition showed me how to connect
using WindowsXP (yuck.).
The connection was done via some kind of a dialer that uses L2TP.
Unconcerned i dialed 012 again, asking them how can i connect with the
method
promised to me - dhcp. what i mainly got was some lame excuses, and that i
should connect with a dialer and that connecting via DHCP is deprecated (one
of their excuses was that it is unstable and insecure). Not getting into
details, it is probably possible to connect via linux to 012, but why should
we? - when other isps give you your DHCP without arguing...
While writing this email, i didnt disconnect from 012, but i'm willing to,
mainly because one of the comments i got from their support, translating to
english it was something in the form of : "hey, if you disable DHCP access
and move everybody to dialers and such, people not using windows will be
unable to connect through you, it might be even 10% of your users"
"we dont care, they are probably very few..."
About promising me DHCP... just because i didnt write the name of the
helpdesk
dude that told me it's DHCP, i half way lost my 012 DHCP access, and
besides,
which linux user would like to stay in an ISP that doesnt give a damn 
about him or his convienience? ;/

My point is, that as members of this list, and linux users as well, beware
of
the evil 012, and the way they treat linux users. Tomorrow i'll probably
disconnect from 012 and move to another ISP, Netvision Probably. (in short -
because they told me they can fix me a static ip and i wouldnt have to add
any $$).

Take care.
--
Dan Fruehauf.


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BitchX on Fedora core 1

[Erez Kirson]

Hi all
 
Has anyone installed BitchX ( 
ircii-pana-1.0c19.tar.gz ) on Fedora core 1 ? 
the "/configure" part was clean but it breaks on 
gmake
 
For some reason im getting 
 
 
status.c:1245:14: pasting "status_user18" and "(" 
does not give a valid preprocessing token
status.c:1246:14: pasting "status_user19" and "(" 
does not give a valid preprocessing tokengmake[1]: *** [status.o] Error 
1gmake[1]: Leaving directory 
`/usr/src/redhat/SOURCES/BitchX/source'gmake: *** [BitchX] Error 
2
 
anhy ideas ?
 
Erez

[Solved] Re: thunderbird links - the saga continues...

[Lior Kesos]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Have you reportted to Bugzilla that the bug is not resolved?

No, but I contacted darin fisher which wrote the script.
He/She(?) told me that using Firebird 0.7 isn't enough and that I need to a 0.7 
nightly build.
So I went and downloaded the firebird nightly build and with the script refrenced 
before and thunderbird-0.4 - it finally works!
So I'm a much more relaxed and happy *bird user now my main itch has been scratched :) 
.
regards -

Lior Kesos  -  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Content Development Team Leader
==
"Everything should be made as simple as possible -
but not simpler" -- Albert Einstein 

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Re: Cable Internet, 012, and what's between it...

[Shachar Shemesh]

Nadav Har'El wrote:

On Wed, Dec 10, 2003, Shachar Shemesh wrote about "Re: Cable Internet, 012, and what's between it...":
 

Lastly, reconsider whether you really want to use DHCP to connect. This 
means your username and password are not checked, and you are 
authenticated based on. your network card's MAC address. Yes, that's 
right.
   

So what? This sort of "authentication"'s only purpose is to protect the ISP
from unauthorized people connecting to their network - you shouldn't care
diddly squat about this. You're not paying per minute or per megabyte, and
nobody can "steal" anything from you if they break this "authentication".
And I even doubt that they really use only your MAC address for their own
protection - the cable network probably knows from which apartment your
connection is coming and whether you're authorized to use the Internet service.
 

When you connect to the internet, you get an IP. The IP is marked, at 
the ISP's side, as belonging to you. If that IP address does something 
bad, it's your door the police are going to be knocking down on.

Now, how possible is it going to be for you to claim that this does not 
prove anything? You could hire my services, which is not a bad thing in 
and on itself, but does not guarentee that the trial is going to go your 
way.

Personally, I'd rather not even start.

Shachar

--
Shachar Shemesh
Open Source integration & consulting
Home page & resume - http://www.shemesh.biz/


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Re: Cable Internet, 012, and what's between it...

[Nadav Har'El]

On Wed, Dec 10, 2003, Shachar Shemesh wrote about "Re: Cable Internet, 012, and what's 
between it...":
> Lastly, reconsider whether you really want to use DHCP to connect. This 
> means your username and password are not checked, and you are 
> authenticated based on. your network card's MAC address. Yes, that's 
> right.

So what? This sort of "authentication"'s only purpose is to protect the ISP
from unauthorized people connecting to their network - you shouldn't care
diddly squat about this. You're not paying per minute or per megabyte, and
nobody can "steal" anything from you if they break this "authentication".
And I even doubt that they really use only your MAC address for their own
protection - the cable network probably knows from which apartment your
connection is coming and whether you're authorized to use the Internet service.

To protect *yourself*, you'll need something completely different, such as
running a firewall on your Linux machine and a bunch of other security
precautions.

I have a cable internet connection, with Matav and 012, and I do have DHCP
(this is something Matav had to set up, not 012, as far as I understood!),
and it is working great. I can even run DHCP on several computers, and get
several separate IP addresses, which in some situations is very convenient.

-- 
Nadav Har'El|   Wednesday, Dec 10 2003, 15 Kislev 5764
[EMAIL PROTECTED] |-
Phone: +972-53-790466, ICQ 13349191 |A Life? Cool! Where can I download one of
http://nadav.harel.org.il   |those from?

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Re: Article in Globes

[Guy Baruch]

Shaul Karl wrote:

In the Israeli there are 2 aspects which are also present else where

but might be more noticeable here:

1. Open Source means a switch from the more traditional way of thinking.
 

so ? is new==good ?

2. Hopefully it will divert money that is now spent outside of Israel,
  for whatever world wide giant, to many small local groups. Which is
  a good thing because that money is likely to circulate locally. It is
  true that those world wide giant have local branches. But trying to
  smoothly balanced the needs of every group in the population is one
  of the government duties. As such, due to its advantages, open source
  can not be completely ruled out. The real question should probably be
  what is the best balance. Conclusion: even if TCO is higher for OS,
  it is worth it.
 

I think what you're trying to say is that long-term TCO for the 
_country_ is lower for OS.

However, in order for this to be more than an ideological claim, one 
should back it up with
numbers, at least estimates.

Example: How much of the GNP comes from MS-il ? What are estimates for 
this number
for the next 10-15 years ? How much would an OSS based industry 
contribute to Israel's
GNP more than a proprietary one ?
What is the possible damage MS can do to Israel's economy (what portion 
of its R&D can it
relocate? ) ? What are the medium (~10 yrs) and long-term probabilities 
for survival of MS ?

3. Since software development does not require more then skilled man
  power, it seems natural for the state of Israel. I agree that this is
  a tough business because skilled man power can be also found else
  where.
 

This is a general claim w.r.t. sw-dev: Implications on the free vs 
proprietary sw debate can be
drawn both ways.

4. I assume that the research was done out of Israel. 

Which research ? OS research ? Most of the research in the world is done 
outside of israel
[Duh ... ;-) ], When and how much should the government/market 
pay/invest for the open
of sw ?

Which is one more
  reason to ask for the raw data and the full calculation which lead
  the researchers to their end result.
 

 and it because of the "forking problem" it is risky
to use OS.
   



 Forking also means that some one tries another way. Forking means that
each head will merge good results out of the other head. Due to its open
nature, forking also let the end user interfere in the end result. It 
also let other people to maintain the old code. 

 

It sais that the Government of Israel should not move from MS an
other propriatery solutions to OS.
   



 That seems to be going too far. A better conclusion would be the right
balance between propriatery solutions and OS.
 

I agree. Let me refine this by the claim*  that OSS strong areas are 
widely-distributed sw,
including infra-structure, where user-masses are more important than 
individual
(or team) developper talent.

IOW, I would argue that Israel should invest in open commons and 
proprietary niches.

* This is by no means a new claim. In fact, this "traditional way of 
thinking" is the summary
of "the cathedral and bazaar". Being old doesn't make it wrong, though 
.. :-)

 
 

--
-- regards
+---
+ Guy Baruch , Plasma Laboratory, Weizmann Institue.
+ http://plasma-gate.weizmann.ac.il/~guybar
+---


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Re: Cable Internet, 012, and what's between it...

[shlomi]

Michael Sternberg wrote:
> RE: Cable Internet, 012, and what's between it...
> From: Michael Sternberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Dan Fruehauf
> > Sent: Tue, December 09, 2003 11:08 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Cable Internet, 012, and what's between it...
> > ...
> > ... beware of the evil 012 ...
> > ...
>
> Strange. I'm connected to 012 via MATAV cables and happily use Linux with
> IP received via DHCP. Maybe it depends on the geographic area (Haifa) ?
> More than that - MATAV supplied modem that capable of providing network
> via NIC and via USB. And if I connect both - I receive two valid IPs via
> DHCP..
>

Same here. but it's not so strange. We were connected to 012 before they 
started using dialers. I talked with the support once and they said that they 
might move us all to dialers during this year. It's not a brainer to use PPTP 
on linux but i still prefer DHCP connection. So i might consider moving to 
another ISP when they do that.


Shlomi.


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Re: Article in Globes

[Gabor Szabo]

On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 08:17:40 +0200, Gil Freund <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Let us now look into the propriety software side. The obvious example
comes to mind: Microsoft.


Well, I think there was another big fork in the propriatery software world 
and
that is the Great Unix Fork. Not talking only about System V vs BSD but 
also about
the different versions of Unices from the various vendors.

The same can easily happen to the various Linux distributions as well.

Or rather it is actually happening as e speak.

Gabor

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