Re: Freedom of speech online
me :-) Maybe they're more afraid from nonviolent "terrorists" than from violent ones. After all, I do admit to the most dangerous crime of being a pacifist. It's contagious! Uri, I think I want to express my gratitude to you for the first-class entertainment you are providing on the list. Observing people to openly get in touch with their tinfoil-hat side is a refreshing addition to the routine boredom of distributions and configuration tweaks. Good job! Wish you luck in your struggle against the mighty Big SMTP Brother and his omnipresent IP-minions. Please keep us posted if you discover that Mossad had replaced our government with insectoid aliens. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Freedom of speech online
Uri Even-Chen wrote: > You think it's unlikely, because you don't expect secret agents to > read and/or block E-mail messages of ordinary people like me? Now you're just ignoring what I said. > What > if, for example, there was someone (let's call him Osama) who is a > very dangerous terrorist. Don't you think they will do it to him? > Read his E-mail, Absolutly, positively, without a doubt yes. > and maybe even censor it? Absolutly, positively, without a doubt no. When you make someone your target, that last thing you want them to know is that you have figured out how to tap their communication paths. If you do, they may: 1. Find and disable your interception mechanism (if foreign - search for how wiretapped. If domestic, get a court order to make you stop). 2. Use (better) encryption to make sure you can't read their email. 3. Bypass email and use a phone. Any way you look at it, LISTENING in on communication is something I believe the Israeli agencies do all the time. INTERCEPTING is something that is almost never done. It simply makes zero operational sense. Yet you are certain that that was what happened, while not bringing a single piece of evidence. Yes, I'm afraid the term "Paranoid" does come to mind. Shachar -- Shachar Shemesh Lingnu Open Source Consulting ltd. Have you backed up today's work? http://www.lingnu.com/backup.html = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Freedom of speech online
> > > What about a webmail like Gmail? I don't see how break into that, seeing > > that login is done with SSL and that the servers lie in another country > > and Google probably won't cooperate with the Israeli government. > > Think again. They cooperate with the Chinese government, and the > United States government is known as a pro-Israeli government. > > [I'm writing you this message using Gmail]. Uri, It seems that you did not read or follow the recommendations how to use Goolge anonymously that I made at the bottom of my previous post. > > > > If you think I deserve it, think again. Today it's me, tomorrow it > > > can be you too! > > > > About that, see the famous poem in > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came... > > Yes, I know. I read it before. > > Uri. > > = > To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with > the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command > echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] > -- Julian Daich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Freedom of speech online
Quoting Uri Even-Chen, from the post of Sat, 09 Sep: > > OK, I checked and here is some more information: at the time I suspect > they were blocking my E-mail (which I think they stopped now), I > received many messages in delay of about 10 minutes, if they were sent > to one of the addresses being tapped. There was no delay to addresses > not being tapped, or in some cases even to the addresses being tapped, > depends who's the sender. It's possible they tapped only some of the > traffic, for example from mail servers in Israel. It's not a concrete > proof, but it adds to the other evidence I have. SMTP is not a real-time protocol. delayed messages are normal. 10 minutes for censorship of a letter is slow on the other hand :-) hey, why not use PGP on their ass if you want to drive them nuts? :) in any case, Dark and backwards as we are, I think Israelis enjoy more openness to opinions and freedom of speech than Americans. -- Telephone sanitary engineer Ira Abramov http://ira.abramov.org/email/ = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Freedom of speech online
Quoting Amos Shapira, from the post of Sat, 09 Sep: > Even technically - if Gmail directly connects to the SMTP port on your > private server - how is the government supposed to be able to intercept, > analyse and then block your TCP stream "live"? It's not impossible but would > require going to a great length in order to achieve, don't you think? there are proxies in firewalls you know, and they are not even too expensive. They are mainly used to catch spam or malware, but the exact same technology is easely adapted to eavesdropping. Unless Uri checkes the TCP packets are really coming from where they are supposed to be, who's to tell he is getting the mail from Google or from a proxy? Need to dig the logs... Also, there are many ways to listen to TCP packets and kill a session in flight if you are on the route. that's how the Echelon system might work if it wasn't simply passive. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON -- Curse of the bambino Ira Abramov http://ira.abramov.org/email/ = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Freedom of speech online
Quoting Amos Shapira, from the post of Mon, 11 Sep: > On 11/09/06, Uri Even-Chen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >I think they are. I think they also sent agents to speak to me, spy > >on me and pretend they are ordinary people. I think they listened to > >my phone calls, and even disconnected some of my phone calls. It's If that's the case I see two options... A. you are low on Vitamin B12 and became paranoid, go see a doctor. B. It's real. go get a lawyer and have some trustworthy people involved. You're describing something reminiscent of the Men-In-Black Syndrome... And frankly I'd be more interested in what you said that you think started this. > >difficult to prove, their agents never identify as such and they never > >leave any concrete evidence. I can't prove what I suspect, I just > >think it looks very suspisious. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men_in_Black#Psychological_Explanations > Uri - if these agencies are so dangerous then would you please stop > dragging us into their network? I'd hate to be the next person on > their list and your discussion about this on this public list will > surely make us all targe Might help to leave everything and catch the next flight to the absolute other end of the other hemisphere of the planet, mate! -- Through the looking glass Ira Abramov http://ira.abramov.org/email/ = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Freedom of speech online
Whoever who is not interested, please don't read this thread. And
please, don't respond! You're just spamming...
On 9/11/06, Nadav Har'El <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I think everything is a tradeoff. Say it costs $100 a day to do this sort
of surveilance on someone: let's say this (made up) cost includes lawyer
fees (somebody had to convince that judge to issue an order), computer
operator fees, hardware fees, and of course, the cost of someone to actually
do something with your mail. If this surveilance carries on for a month,
it would cost $3,000.
If these prices were correct (and as I said, I just made them up), would
the US blink for a second before investing $3,000 a month to follow Bin Laden?
Of course not - they are already spending millions to chase him.
I called him Osama, not Bin Laden. It's just an example. He can be
anybody, including you and me.
This is a different issue. Being "probed" by undercover agents sounds
like a harmless, routine, work of the Shabak. For your phone to be tapped,
they would need a court order, but it's also a relatively routine (and
simpler) thing for them to do. Going after your email is harder to pull
off, and is more of a "one-off" project (each person's email will require
different techniques to tap, and not every two-bit cop can do this).
Actually, I suspect that court orders are needed only for "ordinary"
police investigations. I think the Mossad, Shabak, etc, don't abide
to laws, and they can do what they want. If you heard about what
happened in other countries, for example New Zealand, Switzerland,
Italy (Vaanunu), Norway, Jordan, how they assassinated people in Gaza
and West Bank ("the engineer") etc - you can see that they do what
they want. So I think also in Israel, they can tap phones without
court orders, for "security" reasons.
So what? I don't think that Google would give a rat's *** if some Mossad
agent came to them with the plea "please help us catch that tree-hugging
terrorist from Israel". If you suspect that Google do care, switch to
another email provider that doesn't. If animal rights are important to
you, maybe you can consider www.care2.com.
Google, as a company, don't have to be involved. It can be either
done by someone working at Google (and also for somebody else), or it
can be done by the United States intelligence, with something like
"carnivore". The United States intelligence will probably cooperate
with the Mossad, if they where after someone as dangerous as Osama, or
me :-) Maybe they're more afraid from nonviolent "terrorists" than
from violent ones. After all, I do admit to the most dangerous crime
of being a pacifist. It's contagious!
Uri.
(Please don't send me hate letters. You better send them to
[EMAIL PROTECTED])
Thanks.
=
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the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command
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RE: Freedom of speech online
When I read all this emails exchange I can now understand why Linux is so popular. Uri needs help, but this forum is not the place where is should look for it... Israel Shikler -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Nadav Har'El Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 2:46 PM To: Uri Even-Chen Cc: linux-il Subject: Re: Freedom of speech online On Mon, Sep 11, 2006, Uri Even-Chen wrote about "Re: Freedom of speech online": > On 9/11/06, Nadav Har'El <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >Uri, the situation you're describing is possible technically, but highly > >unlikely. > > You think it's unlikely, because you don't expect secret agents to > read and/or block E-mail messages of ordinary people like me? What > if, for example, there was someone (let's call him Osama) who is a > very dangerous terrorist. Don't you think they will do it to him? I think everything is a tradeoff. Say it costs $100 a day to do this sort of surveilance on someone: let's say this (made up) cost includes lawyer fees (somebody had to convince that judge to issue an order), computer operator fees, hardware fees, and of course, the cost of someone to actually do something with your mail. If this surveilance carries on for a month, it would cost $3,000. If these prices were correct (and as I said, I just made them up), would the US blink for a second before investing $3,000 a month to follow Bin Laden? Of course not - they are already spending millions to chase him. But will the Israeli police invest $3,000 a month to follow one of the *thousands* of people who were arrested this year, one of the *thousands* of people who are political activists for the "wrong" party, and so on? Somehow I doubt it. Last time I delt with the Israeli police, it looks like they didn't even have a shekel to spare. > Read his E-mail, and maybe even censor it? I think you should at > least consider the possibility that they can and will do it. So the > question is not if they are capable of doing it (I think they are), > but if they are capable of doing it to me (as in Uri). My hunch: they are capable of doing this, but haven't done this in your case. My suspicion is (although I don't know your crimes :-)) that the Israeli Police, Mossad, Shabak, or whomever you suspect, have much bigger fish to catch: terrorist leaders, mafia bosses, gang leaders, embezelers of millions, car theft rings, armed robbers, and so on. > I think they are. I think they also sent agents to speak to me, spy > on me and pretend they are ordinary people. I think they listened to > my phone calls, and even disconnected some of my phone calls. It's This is a different issue. Being "probed" by undercover agents sounds like a harmless, routine, work of the Shabak. For your phone to be tapped, they would need a court order, but it's also a relatively routine (and simpler) thing for them to do. Going after your email is harder to pull off, and is more of a "one-off" project (each person's email will require different techniques to tap, and not every two-bit cop can do this). > By the way, have you heard that the Bush administration is charging > people invovled in animal rights as terrorists? For example, read > about SHAC activists > [http://www.pressaction.com/news/weblog/full_article/jones06152004/]. > So maybe, after all, I am legally a terrorist? And if so, it that > surprising that someone is reading my E-mail? Frankly, in a country where hundreds of people get killed each year by actual terrorists, nobody really bothers to spend too much effort in catching the "terrorists" who spray-paint furs or free monkeys from cages... > Think again. They cooperate with the Chinese government, and the > United States government is known as a pro-Israeli government. So what? I don't think that Google would give a rat's *** if some Mossad agent came to them with the plea "please help us catch that tree-hugging terrorist from Israel". If you suspect that Google do care, switch to another email provider that doesn't. If animal rights are important to you, maybe you can consider www.care2.com. -- Nadav Har'El|Monday, Sep 11 2006, 18 Elul 5766 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone +972-523-790466, ICQ 13349191 |God created the world out of nothing, but http://nadav.harel.org.il |the nothingness still shows through. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Freedom of speech online
On Mon, Sep 11, 2006, Uri Even-Chen wrote about "Re: Freedom of speech online": > On 9/11/06, Nadav Har'El <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >Uri, the situation you're describing is possible technically, but highly > >unlikely. > > You think it's unlikely, because you don't expect secret agents to > read and/or block E-mail messages of ordinary people like me? What > if, for example, there was someone (let's call him Osama) who is a > very dangerous terrorist. Don't you think they will do it to him? I think everything is a tradeoff. Say it costs $100 a day to do this sort of surveilance on someone: let's say this (made up) cost includes lawyer fees (somebody had to convince that judge to issue an order), computer operator fees, hardware fees, and of course, the cost of someone to actually do something with your mail. If this surveilance carries on for a month, it would cost $3,000. If these prices were correct (and as I said, I just made them up), would the US blink for a second before investing $3,000 a month to follow Bin Laden? Of course not - they are already spending millions to chase him. But will the Israeli police invest $3,000 a month to follow one of the *thousands* of people who were arrested this year, one of the *thousands* of people who are political activists for the "wrong" party, and so on? Somehow I doubt it. Last time I delt with the Israeli police, it looks like they didn't even have a shekel to spare. > Read his E-mail, and maybe even censor it? I think you should at > least consider the possibility that they can and will do it. So the > question is not if they are capable of doing it (I think they are), > but if they are capable of doing it to me (as in Uri). My hunch: they are capable of doing this, but haven't done this in your case. My suspicion is (although I don't know your crimes :-)) that the Israeli Police, Mossad, Shabak, or whomever you suspect, have much bigger fish to catch: terrorist leaders, mafia bosses, gang leaders, embezelers of millions, car theft rings, armed robbers, and so on. > I think they are. I think they also sent agents to speak to me, spy > on me and pretend they are ordinary people. I think they listened to > my phone calls, and even disconnected some of my phone calls. It's This is a different issue. Being "probed" by undercover agents sounds like a harmless, routine, work of the Shabak. For your phone to be tapped, they would need a court order, but it's also a relatively routine (and simpler) thing for them to do. Going after your email is harder to pull off, and is more of a "one-off" project (each person's email will require different techniques to tap, and not every two-bit cop can do this). > By the way, have you heard that the Bush administration is charging > people invovled in animal rights as terrorists? For example, read > about SHAC activists > [http://www.pressaction.com/news/weblog/full_article/jones06152004/]. > So maybe, after all, I am legally a terrorist? And if so, it that > surprising that someone is reading my E-mail? Frankly, in a country where hundreds of people get killed each year by actual terrorists, nobody really bothers to spend too much effort in catching the "terrorists" who spray-paint furs or free monkeys from cages... > Think again. They cooperate with the Chinese government, and the > United States government is known as a pro-Israeli government. So what? I don't think that Google would give a rat's *** if some Mossad agent came to them with the plea "please help us catch that tree-hugging terrorist from Israel". If you suspect that Google do care, switch to another email provider that doesn't. If animal rights are important to you, maybe you can consider www.care2.com. -- Nadav Har'El|Monday, Sep 11 2006, 18 Elul 5766 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone +972-523-790466, ICQ 13349191 |God created the world out of nothing, but http://nadav.harel.org.il |the nothingness still shows through. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Freedom of speech online
On Mon, 2006-09-11 at 14:14 +0300, Imri Zvik wrote: > I think we heard enough. As many people already mentioned before, this > is a technical list, rather than a political one. If someone was tapping > your emails, I'm sure you already managed to bore them off. > > Can someone please forward this thread to the MOH? > .as if his TFH [1] wasn't enough to get him straitjacketed... Gilboa 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TFH = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Freedom of speech online
On 11/09/06, Uri Even-Chen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I think they are. I think they also sent agents to speak to me, spy on me and pretend they are ordinary people. I think they listened to my phone calls, and even disconnected some of my phone calls. It's difficult to prove, their agents never identify as such and they never leave any concrete evidence. I can't prove what I suspect, I just think it looks very suspisious. Uri - if these agencies are so dangerous then would you please stop dragging us into their network? I'd hate to be the next person on their list and your discussion about this on this public list will surely make us all targe Oops - just a sec - there is a knock on the door. -- "Military justice is to justice what military music is to music" = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Freedom of speech online
is this linux-il list?! orim-so-important-and-everybody-wants-to-kill-me-il list? Uri, take your paranoids elsewhere. please. /Nitzan (an alleged war criminal) On 9/11/06, Uri Even-Chen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On 9/11/06, Nadav Har'El <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Uri, the situation you're describing is possible technically, but highly > unlikely. You think it's unlikely, because you don't expect secret agents to read and/or block E-mail messages of ordinary people like me? What if, for example, there was someone (let's call him Osama) who is a very dangerous terrorist. Don't you think they will do it to him? Read his E-mail, and maybe even censor it? I think you should at least consider the possibility that they can and will do it. So the question is not if they are capable of doing it (I think they are), but if they are capable of doing it to me (as in Uri). I think they are. I think they also sent agents to speak to me, spy on me and pretend they are ordinary people. I think they listened to my phone calls, and even disconnected some of my phone calls. It's difficult to prove, their agents never identify as such and they never leave any concrete evidence. I can't prove what I suspect, I just think it looks very suspisious. By the way, have you heard that the Bush administration is charging people invovled in animal rights as terrorists? For example, read about SHAC activists [http://www.pressaction.com/news/weblog/full_article/jones06152004/]. So maybe, after all, I am legally a terrorist? And if so, it that surprising that someone is reading my E-mail? > What about a webmail like Gmail? I don't see how break into that, seeing > that login is done with SSL and that the servers lie in another country > and Google probably won't cooperate with the Israeli government. Think again. They cooperate with the Chinese government, and the United States government is known as a pro-Israeli government. [I'm writing you this message using Gmail]. > > If you think I deserve it, think again. Today it's me, tomorrow it > > can be you too! > > About that, see the famous poem in >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came... Yes, I know. I read it before. Uri. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Freedom of speech online
I think we heard enough. As many people already mentioned before, this is a technical list, rather than a political one. If someone was tapping your emails, I'm sure you already managed to bore them off. Can someone please forward this thread to the MOH? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Uri Even-Chen Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 2:02 PM To: Nadav Har'El Cc: linux-il Subject: Re: Freedom of speech online On 9/11/06, Nadav Har'El <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Uri, the situation you're describing is possible technically, but highly > unlikely. You think it's unlikely, because you don't expect secret agents to read and/or block E-mail messages of ordinary people like me? What if, for example, there was someone (let's call him Osama) who is a very dangerous terrorist. Don't you think they will do it to him? Read his E-mail, and maybe even censor it? I think you should at least consider the possibility that they can and will do it. So the question is not if they are capable of doing it (I think they are), but if they are capable of doing it to me (as in Uri). I think they are. I think they also sent agents to speak to me, spy on me and pretend they are ordinary people. I think they listened to my phone calls, and even disconnected some of my phone calls. It's difficult to prove, their agents never identify as such and they never leave any concrete evidence. I can't prove what I suspect, I just think it looks very suspisious. By the way, have you heard that the Bush administration is charging people invovled in animal rights as terrorists? For example, read about SHAC activists [http://www.pressaction.com/news/weblog/full_article/jones06152004/]. So maybe, after all, I am legally a terrorist? And if so, it that surprising that someone is reading my E-mail? > What about a webmail like Gmail? I don't see how break into that, seeing > that login is done with SSL and that the servers lie in another country > and Google probably won't cooperate with the Israeli government. Think again. They cooperate with the Chinese government, and the United States government is known as a pro-Israeli government. [I'm writing you this message using Gmail]. > > If you think I deserve it, think again. Today it's me, tomorrow it > > can be you too! > > About that, see the famous poem in >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came... Yes, I know. I read it before. Uri. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Freedom of speech online
People do understand, and yet decide to block them. I believe the term is "collateral damage" :) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Geoffrey S. Mendelson Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 1:35 PM To: Shachar Shemesh Cc: Nadav Har'El; linux-il Subject: Re: Freedom of speech online On Mon, Sep 11, 2006 at 01:12:53PM +0300, Shachar Shemesh wrote: > About two years ago I failed to subscribe to unicode mailing lists on > unicode.org, because their sysadmin decided that all emails from > shemesh.biz should be blocked (yes, spammers did use this domains some > year and a half prior to that). Yesterday I tried to post an anonymous comment on a blog. The blog rejected it because my IP address was used for an open relay. The problem is that I have a regular cable modem connection to Netvision. Yesterday's open relay, is today's web browser. Some people just don't understand dynamic IP addresses. Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel [EMAIL PROTECTED] N3OWJ/4X1GM IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667 Fax ONLY: 972-2-648-1443 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838 Visit my 'blog at http://geoffstechno.livejournal.com/ = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Freedom of speech online
On 9/11/06, Nadav Har'El <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Uri, the situation you're describing is possible technically, but highly unlikely. You think it's unlikely, because you don't expect secret agents to read and/or block E-mail messages of ordinary people like me? What if, for example, there was someone (let's call him Osama) who is a very dangerous terrorist. Don't you think they will do it to him? Read his E-mail, and maybe even censor it? I think you should at least consider the possibility that they can and will do it. So the question is not if they are capable of doing it (I think they are), but if they are capable of doing it to me (as in Uri). I think they are. I think they also sent agents to speak to me, spy on me and pretend they are ordinary people. I think they listened to my phone calls, and even disconnected some of my phone calls. It's difficult to prove, their agents never identify as such and they never leave any concrete evidence. I can't prove what I suspect, I just think it looks very suspisious. By the way, have you heard that the Bush administration is charging people invovled in animal rights as terrorists? For example, read about SHAC activists [http://www.pressaction.com/news/weblog/full_article/jones06152004/]. So maybe, after all, I am legally a terrorist? And if so, it that surprising that someone is reading my E-mail? What about a webmail like Gmail? I don't see how break into that, seeing that login is done with SSL and that the servers lie in another country and Google probably won't cooperate with the Israeli government. Think again. They cooperate with the Chinese government, and the United States government is known as a pro-Israeli government. [I'm writing you this message using Gmail]. > If you think I deserve it, think again. Today it's me, tomorrow it > can be you too! About that, see the famous poem in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came... Yes, I know. I read it before. Uri. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Freedom of speech online
On Mon, Sep 11, 2006 at 01:12:53PM +0300, Shachar Shemesh wrote: > About two years ago I failed to subscribe to unicode mailing lists on > unicode.org, because their sysadmin decided that all emails from > shemesh.biz should be blocked (yes, spammers did use this domains some > year and a half prior to that). Yesterday I tried to post an anonymous comment on a blog. The blog rejected it because my IP address was used for an open relay. The problem is that I have a regular cable modem connection to Netvision. Yesterday's open relay, is today's web browser. Some people just don't understand dynamic IP addresses. Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel [EMAIL PROTECTED] N3OWJ/4X1GM IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667 Fax ONLY: 972-2-648-1443 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838 Visit my 'blog at http://geoffstechno.livejournal.com/ = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Freedom of speech online
Nadav Har'El wrote: > I've seen even stranger things happening. Mails from yahoo.com silently > dropped because some newbie sysadmin saw a lot of spam "from" @yahoo.com > and decided to drop mail based on "from" address). About two years ago I failed to subscribe to unicode mailing lists on unicode.org, because their sysadmin decided that all emails from shemesh.biz should be blocked (yes, spammers did use this domains some year and a half prior to that). I guess it's more noobs than newbies. Shachar -- Shachar Shemesh Lingnu Open Source Consulting ltd. Have you backed up today's work? http://www.lingnu.com/backup.html = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Freedom of speech online
First of all, I agree with most of the answer and believe that what you claim about governmental or any agency surveilance is possible but very, very, very improbable. El lun, 11-09-2006 a las 09:49 +0300, Nadav Har'El escribió: > On Fri, Sep 08, 2006, Uri Even-Chen wrote about "Freedom of speech online": > > What I want you to know, is that recently I had some feeling that not > > all my E-mail messages are sent and received properly. Today I found > > out a proof that somebody is not only reading my mail, but also > > censors it. Some of the messages sent to me I don't receive. Maybe > > even most of them. I tried to send messages to myself to 2 different > > addresses. One I received instantly, and the other I didn't receive > > at all. I tried it again, same result. Somebody, probably related to > > the Israeli government, is censoring me. I don't have freedom of > > speech any more. And that's only because I criticised the Israeli > > government. > > Uri, the situation you're describing is possible technically, but highly > unlikely. > > What is more likely that you're seeing the byproducts of the world's email > infrastructure's increasing complexity - and often *stupidty* - as a result > of the battle against spam. The delivery of your mail more and more relies > on your IP address being "ok"ed by a bunch of "blacklists", your choice of > words being "ok"ed by a bunch of "algorithms", your domain name being oked > by a bunch of authentication techniques, and so on. > > Let me give you a simple example that I saw just yesterday. > > I sent a mail from my Technion account to someone in another reputable Israeli > organization. Should have been straightforward, right? Well, a minute later, > my email bounced. It turns out that a mail server on the way to the > destination's mail server decided to "verify" that the domain on my mail, > "math.technion.ac.il", is in the DNS. Why? Does this prevent any spam? Not > really, but what the heck - this is what they decided to check. It turns > out that for a few seconds, a network problem rendered the technion > unreachable > and the DNS did not work. So the mail server decided that this mail was spam. > I was lucky that they decided to *bounce* this alleged spam. Normally, this > wouldn't even happen, and the alleged spam is just discarded and you never > know why (because most of the from addresses are on spam are forged, there > is no point in bouncing). > > I've seen even stranger things happening. Mails from yahoo.com silently > dropped because some newbie sysadmin saw a lot of spam "from" @yahoo.com > and decided to drop mail based on "from" address). Mails from an entire > country dropped because someone thought that most spam comes from it. > And so on. > > It would have been nice to see your evidence. Perhaps we could give you a > different explanation than the government's involvement. > > > Do you know any secure way to send and receive E-mails, without > > censorship and without the risk of someone blocking them? > > What about a webmail like Gmail? I don't see how break into that, seeing > that login is done with SSL and that the servers lie in another country > and Google probably won't cooperate with the Israeli government. > > Use the URL https://mail.google.com/mail/ and your entire connection to > Google, not just the login, will be through SSL. This will make you > immune to eavesdropping or man-in-the-middle attacks from the government. Also, if you´ll like to improve the security and/ or anonymity of your Gmail experience, use Firefox( In Linux) as web browser install Tor, Privoxy, the FoxyPoxy Firefox´s extension, and follow the instructions of this link http://www.freenet.org.nz.nyud.net:8080/misc/google-privacy.html?coral-no-redirect . > Of course, if the government has broken into your own machine, they may > have installed malicious software there. Open your machine, look for any > unrecoginized hardware, then reinstall your system from scratch, keep it > up to date, and put up a software firewall (e.g., iptables on Linux). And if you are really, really paranoiac, you can use OpenBSD as OS in some of you computers to have an always¨ safe¨ option. I´m not an expert in OpenBSD, but there is a live CD designed to operate in laptops with wireless connection. It comes with Firefox and other basics applications and you can download it from http://kaos.to/cms/content/view/14/32/ . They claim at their website that it is special for defending people from governmental surveilance and also that you can install it to you HD. Hope that it will help you in someway. Good luck, Julian > > > If you think I deserve it, think again. Today it's me, tomorrow it > > can be you too! > > About that, see the famous poem in > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came... > > -- > Nadav Har'El|Monday, Sep 11 2006, 18 Elul 5766 > [EMAIL PROTECTED] |-
