Re: [PATCH 3/3] Time to make CONFIG_PARAVIRT non-experimental.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Satyam Sharma wrote: > > On Tue, 18 Sep 2007, Charles N Wyble wrote: >> Andi Kleen wrote: >>> Besides it's bad taste and taste is very important. >> Well it's bad taste for you (one person). > > FWIW, my opinion is the same as Andi's here. Please, let's avoid this > disease -- unless *absolutely* required, stuff shouldn't be "default y". > I am curious why you think it shouldn't be default why? Bad taste? Can you provide data about how it will harm things? -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFG8ptLkQPZV56XDBMRApxNAJwLOv2dabO6KD6t4Z/Fkffelh1IxwCdEzPM 1JEuIQvlkiojgiMy0tnroqk= =yCiZ -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [PATCH 3/3] Time to make CONFIG_PARAVIRT non-experimental.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Satyam Sharma wrote: On Tue, 18 Sep 2007, Charles N Wyble wrote: Andi Kleen wrote: Besides it's bad taste and taste is very important. Well it's bad taste for you (one person). FWIW, my opinion is the same as Andi's here. Please, let's avoid this disease -- unless *absolutely* required, stuff shouldn't be default y. I am curious why you think it shouldn't be default why? Bad taste? Can you provide data about how it will harm things? -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFG8ptLkQPZV56XDBMRApxNAJwLOv2dabO6KD6t4Z/Fkffelh1IxwCdEzPM 1JEuIQvlkiojgiMy0tnroqk= =yCiZ -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [PATCH 3/3] Time to make CONFIG_PARAVIRT non-experimental.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Andi Kleen wrote: > >> Why is making something default y a bad idea? >> Those most likely to care can turn it off. Is there a harmful effect >> from leaving it on if its not being used? > > Running yes "" | make oldconfig to upgrade kernel configs is standard practice > and you definitely don't want to have all kinds of random new unnecessary > features > be turned on then. H. I disagree its a standard practice. I thought the whole point of make oldconfig was to give you just the delta in configuration options and was targeted at manual review? Also how many people are building there own kernels these days? Expanding on what I said in the original e-mail those who are likely to care "CAN TURN IT OFF". Those who care about such things should be REVIEWING CHANGES anyway. Thats what I do when looking at building custom kernels. What changed that makes me want to move to a new version? I generally try to stick with the distro kernel when possible, but part of being an early and aggressive adopter of virtualization technology involves running non distro kernels and patches. Most people don't really care. > > Besides paravirt by itself is pretty useless; you need typically quite > complex other options set to do any meaningfull virtualization. Actually if I understand the functionality of paravirt correctly that is not correct. I believe that will turn on the paravirt bits which allow it to run under things such as VMI or Xen. > > The only reason to use default y is in options that are not user visible > and have a reasonable default or things that cause direct boot failures > when upgrading old configurations. That all doesn't apply here. Again you need to think about the target audience here. A distro kernel you don't have to worry about this stuff. A user compiling there own kernel should already be able to handle this. > > Besides it's bad taste and taste is very important. Well it's bad taste for you (one person). Taste is highly subjective. So be careful in making broad ranging statements like this. :) > > -Andi > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFG8DSnkQPZV56XDBMRAtZcAJ4rtRXGW14b70YRIBKyHCsaKTdO/wCeOdoM AUc4YGUaqs5DmDDbov7X980= =UA4y -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [PATCH 2/3] Consolidate host virtualization support under Virtualization menu
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jeremy Fitzhardinge wrote: > Charles N Wyble wrote: >> >> Zachary Amsden wrote: >> > >>> Virtualization is completely different, and probably needs separate >>> server (kvm, lguest) and client (kvm, lguest, xen, vmware) sections in >>> it's menu. >> >> So what is the differentiation between client and server above? Just >> curious what makes kvm and lguest server and client. > > "Host" and "guest" are better terms, I think. Kvm is all host, since > guests need no modification. lguest turns the kernel into both host and > guest. Xen Linux kernels are all guest, since the Xen hypervisor is the > host. > > J Ah ok. Thank you so much for the clarification. :) > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD4DBQFG8DDdkQPZV56XDBMRAl6NAJ90z7tRO+xAvbOOkKeKH6LZWGjNSACYms3u dqGGgl1GOFraS08UmEf++A== =HgFC -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [PATCH 3/3] Time to make CONFIG_PARAVIRT non-experimental.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Andi Kleen wrote: > On Friday 14 September 2007 07:21, Rusty Russell wrote: >> It's pretty widely used, > > Is it? By whom? > >> and the distributions will turn it on. > > That's no reason to make it default y. Please undo that. default y > is near always a bad idea. Andi, What do you base this on? Why is making something default y a bad idea? Those most likely to care can turn it off. Is there a harmful effect from leaving it on if its not being used? -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFG8C9QkQPZV56XDBMRAowcAJ9fkxKAjjsvGd6hOPkvHXU9ThpoQwCdGUI8 mjpUh6G+ZyzL0CW3sYNS97g= =ZgiJ -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [PATCH 3/3] Time to make CONFIG_PARAVIRT non-experimental.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Andi Kleen wrote: On Friday 14 September 2007 07:21, Rusty Russell wrote: It's pretty widely used, Is it? By whom? and the distributions will turn it on. That's no reason to make it default y. Please undo that. default y is near always a bad idea. Andi, What do you base this on? Why is making something default y a bad idea? Those most likely to care can turn it off. Is there a harmful effect from leaving it on if its not being used? -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFG8C9QkQPZV56XDBMRAowcAJ9fkxKAjjsvGd6hOPkvHXU9ThpoQwCdGUI8 mjpUh6G+ZyzL0CW3sYNS97g= =ZgiJ -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [PATCH 2/3] Consolidate host virtualization support under Virtualization menu
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jeremy Fitzhardinge wrote: Charles N Wyble wrote: Zachary Amsden wrote: snip Virtualization is completely different, and probably needs separate server (kvm, lguest) and client (kvm, lguest, xen, vmware) sections in it's menu. So what is the differentiation between client and server above? Just curious what makes kvm and lguest server and client. Host and guest are better terms, I think. Kvm is all host, since guests need no modification. lguest turns the kernel into both host and guest. Xen Linux kernels are all guest, since the Xen hypervisor is the host. J Ah ok. Thank you so much for the clarification. :) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD4DBQFG8DDdkQPZV56XDBMRAl6NAJ90z7tRO+xAvbOOkKeKH6LZWGjNSACYms3u dqGGgl1GOFraS08UmEf++A== =HgFC -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [PATCH 3/3] Time to make CONFIG_PARAVIRT non-experimental.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Andi Kleen wrote: Why is making something default y a bad idea? Those most likely to care can turn it off. Is there a harmful effect from leaving it on if its not being used? Running yes | make oldconfig to upgrade kernel configs is standard practice and you definitely don't want to have all kinds of random new unnecessary features be turned on then. H. I disagree its a standard practice. I thought the whole point of make oldconfig was to give you just the delta in configuration options and was targeted at manual review? Also how many people are building there own kernels these days? Expanding on what I said in the original e-mail those who are likely to care CAN TURN IT OFF. Those who care about such things should be REVIEWING CHANGES anyway. Thats what I do when looking at building custom kernels. What changed that makes me want to move to a new version? I generally try to stick with the distro kernel when possible, but part of being an early and aggressive adopter of virtualization technology involves running non distro kernels and patches. Most people don't really care. Besides paravirt by itself is pretty useless; you need typically quite complex other options set to do any meaningfull virtualization. Actually if I understand the functionality of paravirt correctly that is not correct. I believe that will turn on the paravirt bits which allow it to run under things such as VMI or Xen. The only reason to use default y is in options that are not user visible and have a reasonable default or things that cause direct boot failures when upgrading old configurations. That all doesn't apply here. Again you need to think about the target audience here. A distro kernel you don't have to worry about this stuff. A user compiling there own kernel should already be able to handle this. Besides it's bad taste and taste is very important. Well it's bad taste for you (one person). Taste is highly subjective. So be careful in making broad ranging statements like this. :) -Andi -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFG8DSnkQPZV56XDBMRAtZcAJ4rtRXGW14b70YRIBKyHCsaKTdO/wCeOdoM AUc4YGUaqs5DmDDbov7X980= =UA4y -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [PATCH 2/3] Consolidate host virtualization support under Virtualization menu
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Zachary Amsden wrote: > > Virtualization is completely different, and probably needs separate > server (kvm, lguest) and client (kvm, lguest, xen, vmware) sections in > it's menu. So what is the differentiation between client and server above? Just curious what makes kvm and lguest server and client. > > Zach > > ___ > Virtualization mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > https://lists.linux-foundation.org/mailman/listinfo/virtualization > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFG7w3ckQPZV56XDBMRAvvaAJ9cHl+A321MJyw6W4J4yIDurz0K2wCcDg8J uOR6alAGvWjxEbThiuaeIDc= =TQ3m -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [PATCH 2/3] Consolidate host virtualization support under Virtualization menu
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Zachary Amsden wrote: snip Virtualization is completely different, and probably needs separate server (kvm, lguest) and client (kvm, lguest, xen, vmware) sections in it's menu. So what is the differentiation between client and server above? Just curious what makes kvm and lguest server and client. Zach ___ Virtualization mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.linux-foundation.org/mailman/listinfo/virtualization -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFG7w3ckQPZV56XDBMRAvvaAJ9cHl+A321MJyw6W4J4yIDurz0K2wCcDg8J uOR6alAGvWjxEbThiuaeIDc= =TQ3m -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
