KernelWiki Lives
Out of the ashes arises a better KernelWiki, with more expressive power, more features, more pages and a _lot_ of work to be done to update all your excellent submissions to the new PhpWiki syntax ;) enjoy: http://kernelbook.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php -- Gary Lawrence Murphy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> TeleDynamics Communications Inc Business Innovations Through Open Source Systems: http://www.teledyn.com "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers."(Pablo Picasso) - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
KernelWiki Lives
Out of the ashes arises a better KernelWiki, with more expressive power, more features, more pages and a _lot_ of work to be done to update all your excellent submissions to the new PhpWiki syntax ;) enjoy: http://kernelbook.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php -- Gary Lawrence Murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED] TeleDynamics Communications Inc Business Innovations Through Open Source Systems: http://www.teledyn.com "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers."(Pablo Picasso) - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: linmodem????
And it works for me under Mandrake 7.1 on an acer330T; I haven't tried the 2.4 trick yet, and there was a simple patch to one include file to use ppp under 2.2.16, but beyond that, it works flawlessly. for those who haven't found it, I have a help-page for Acer laptop users at http://www.teledyn.com/help/acer330T.html -- Gary Lawrence Murphy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> TeleDynamics Communications Inc Business Innovations Through Open Source Systems: http://www.teledyn.com "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers."(Pablo Picasso) - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: linmodem????
And it works for me under Mandrake 7.1 on an acer330T; I haven't tried the 2.4 trick yet, and there was a simple patch to one include file to use ppp under 2.2.16, but beyond that, it works flawlessly. for those who haven't found it, I have a help-page for Acer laptop users at http://www.teledyn.com/help/acer330T.html -- Gary Lawrence Murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED] TeleDynamics Communications Inc Business Innovations Through Open Source Systems: http://www.teledyn.com "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers."(Pablo Picasso) - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
KernelWiki for December: Season of the Gift
No, I hadn't forgotten: Time for another poke-the-kernel-list post. December is, for many people, a time of community and family, and a time for giving gifts to friends and strangers. In Japan, I am told, they have a custom of giving away to others the gifts they have received. The December 2000 KernelWiki Challenge is really simple: "When I asked about ___, told me " 1) Fill in the blanks or comb your back emails for some gift of kernel insight which you received from someone else. 2) Go to http://kernelbook.sourceforge.net/wiki/?KernelWiki and find the appropriate KernelWiki page. 3) Click the "Edit this Page" link 4) Plunk your December KernelWiki response into the text box. 5) Click "Save" and get back to your holiday festivities. It's painless. All I want is 10 minutes of your time. The best stuff is already sitting there in your email files, all you have to do is dig it out, dust it off, and share it. Even if you are still trying to make sense of it, if it seems useful to understanding Linux 2.4, plunk it in. It's easy. 10 minutes work, 15 tops. Hundreds of messages pass through this list in a day, and while most are about the day to day business of _building_ the new kernel, some small percent are general answers that illuminate the Kernel. Those flashes _deserve_ to be collected and shared. One month's worth of these gems could illuminate whole sections of the kernel. What do you win? Do it right, and you might cause that "transmission of light" which nets you assistance in your kernel hacking. The word "Community" comes from Latin roots meaning "Those with whom I share gifts". Your contribution to the KernelWiki makes that community just a little larger. WARNING: I will persist in pestering for participation, but no more than once a month. The subject line is stable enough to regexp for a kill file, but the simple fact is the KernelWiki _is_ working. KernelWiki charges forth, breaking all records, charting new ground, belieing the naysayers. KernelWiki has exceeded all expectations. KernelWiki is a hit, the cover of Die Spiegle and Time's Kernel Doc of the Year. Be the first in your network segment to KernelWiki! Should you have more than 15 minutes to spare and you are interested in this KernelWiki thing, you are invited to fetch http://kernelbook.sourceforge.net/wiki/?KernelWikiWhy http://kernelbook.sourceforge.net/wiki/?KernelWikiPolicies http://kernelbook.sourceforge.net/wiki/?HowToUseWiki The dedicated gift-givers are invited to cruise KernelWiki for question marks, and click the mark to describe the undefined term. KernelWiki lives by your kind contributions. See you in 2001 -- Gary Lawrence Murphy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: office voice/fax: 01 519 4222723 T(!c)Inc Business Innovation through Open Source http://www.teledyn.com M:I-3 - Documenting the Linux kernel: http://kernelbook.sourceforge.net "My humanity is bound up in yours; we can only be human together"(Tutu) - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
KernelWiki for December: Season of the Gift
No, I hadn't forgotten: Time for another poke-the-kernel-list post. December is, for many people, a time of community and family, and a time for giving gifts to friends and strangers. In Japan, I am told, they have a custom of giving away to others the gifts they have received. The December 2000 KernelWiki Challenge is really simple: "When I asked about ___, told me " 1) Fill in the blanks or comb your back emails for some gift of kernel insight which you received from someone else. 2) Go to http://kernelbook.sourceforge.net/wiki/?KernelWiki and find the appropriate KernelWiki page. 3) Click the "Edit this Page" link 4) Plunk your December KernelWiki response into the text box. 5) Click "Save" and get back to your holiday festivities. It's painless. All I want is 10 minutes of your time. The best stuff is already sitting there in your email files, all you have to do is dig it out, dust it off, and share it. Even if you are still trying to make sense of it, if it seems useful to understanding Linux 2.4, plunk it in. It's easy. 10 minutes work, 15 tops. Hundreds of messages pass through this list in a day, and while most are about the day to day business of _building_ the new kernel, some small percent are general answers that illuminate the Kernel. Those flashes _deserve_ to be collected and shared. One month's worth of these gems could illuminate whole sections of the kernel. What do you win? Do it right, and you might cause that "transmission of light" which nets you assistance in your kernel hacking. The word "Community" comes from Latin roots meaning "Those with whom I share gifts". Your contribution to the KernelWiki makes that community just a little larger. WARNING: I will persist in pestering for participation, but no more than once a month. The subject line is stable enough to regexp for a kill file, but the simple fact is the KernelWiki _is_ working. KernelWiki charges forth, breaking all records, charting new ground, belieing the naysayers. KernelWiki has exceeded all expectations. KernelWiki is a hit, the cover of Die Spiegle and Time's Kernel Doc of the Year. Be the first in your network segment to KernelWiki! Should you have more than 15 minutes to spare and you are interested in this KernelWiki thing, you are invited to fetch http://kernelbook.sourceforge.net/wiki/?KernelWikiWhy http://kernelbook.sourceforge.net/wiki/?KernelWikiPolicies http://kernelbook.sourceforge.net/wiki/?HowToUseWiki The dedicated gift-givers are invited to cruise KernelWiki for question marks, and click the mark to describe the undefined term. KernelWiki lives by your kind contributions. See you in 2001 EOT -- Gary Lawrence Murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED]: office voice/fax: 01 519 4222723 T(!c)Inc Business Innovation through Open Source http://www.teledyn.com M:I-3 - Documenting the Linux kernel: http://kernelbook.sourceforge.net "My humanity is bound up in yours; we can only be human together"(Tutu) - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: RFC: "SubmittingPatches" text
Alan and Tigran's comments folded in and Wiki-fied ;) http://kernelbook.sourceforge.net:80/wiki/?PreparingPatches This is not meant to replace the Documentation/... guide, only to provide means for future public contributions. Consider it a tentative preview, not a formal publication, and change it as you wish. -- Gary Lawrence Murphy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: office voice/fax: 01 519 4222723 T(!c)Inc Business Innovation through Open Source http://www.teledyn.com M:I-3 - Documenting the Linux kernel: http://kernelbook.sourceforge.net "You don't play what you know; you play what you hear." --- Miles Davis - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: RFC: SubmittingPatches text
Alan and Tigran's comments folded in and Wiki-fied ;) http://kernelbook.sourceforge.net:80/wiki/?PreparingPatches This is not meant to replace the Documentation/... guide, only to provide means for future public contributions. Consider it a tentative preview, not a formal publication, and change it as you wish. -- Gary Lawrence Murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED]: office voice/fax: 01 519 4222723 T(!c)Inc Business Innovation through Open Source http://www.teledyn.com M:I-3 - Documenting the Linux kernel: http://kernelbook.sourceforge.net "You don't play what you know; you play what you hear." --- Miles Davis - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: State of Posix compliance in v2.2/v2.4 kernel?
>>>>> "J" == Jeff Garzik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: J> Would it be reasonable to have these needs documented in a J> central location, with patches attached where possible? http://kernelbook.sourceforge.net:80/wiki/?LinuxAndPosixCompliance The lead-in discussion has been snipped and inserted under the more general topic http://kernelbook.sourceforge.net:80/wiki/?LinuxVsUnix -- Gary Lawrence Murphy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: office voice/fax: 01 519 4222723 T(!c)Inc Business Innovation through Open Source http://www.teledyn.com M:I-3 - Documenting the Linux kernel: http://kernelbook.sourceforge.net "You don't play what you know; you play what you hear." --- Miles Davis - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: KernelWiki for November: Dia de Muertos
Thank you for your thoughtful commments. I'd recommend you send such comments directly to the author that offends you as posting to the wide list in a vain attempt to gain yourself some status points is only going to result in some comment that further offends you and locks you into a flame war that will certainly consume more of your time than simple contributing to the KernelWiki project. Of course, some people are not concerned about spending their time constructively. Ooops, did I post that publically? Well, it can always serve as a bad example ;) -- Gary Lawrence Murphy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: office voice/fax: 01 519 4222723 T(!c)Inc Business Innovation through Open Source http://www.teledyn.com M:I-3 - Documenting the Linux kernel: http://kernelbook.sourceforge.net "You don't play what you know; you play what you hear." --- Miles Davis - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: KernelWiki for November: Dia de Muertos
Thank you for your thoughtful commments. I'd recommend you send such comments directly to the author that offends you as posting to the wide list in a vain attempt to gain yourself some status points is only going to result in some comment that further offends you and locks you into a flame war that will certainly consume more of your time than simple contributing to the KernelWiki project. Of course, some people are not concerned about spending their time constructively. Ooops, did I post that publically? Well, it can always serve as a bad example ;) -- Gary Lawrence Murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED]: office voice/fax: 01 519 4222723 T(!c)Inc Business Innovation through Open Source http://www.teledyn.com M:I-3 - Documenting the Linux kernel: http://kernelbook.sourceforge.net "You don't play what you know; you play what you hear." --- Miles Davis - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
[OT]: Brooks and the kernel wiki
Alexander also makes a simple wrong assumption in his comparison of software and hypertext documents: Software must be logically consistent and its writers highly inter-co-ordinated or it simply won't work; a rough and non-linear post-modern web-accessible document has no such internal communication requirement. When you write a screenplay like this, you get 3 academy award nominations; when you write software like this, you get a cubicle in Redmond. Oh, yes, I totally agree that it would be very nice to have tight coherence throughout the document, but it is not strictly required. Best regards. -- "The only thing that is not art is inattention." - Marcel Duchamp Gary Lawrence Murphy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: office voice/fax: 01 519 4222723 T(!c)Inc Business Innovation through Open Source http://www.teledyn.com M:I-3 - Documenting the Linux kernel: http://kernelbook.sourceforge.net - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Linux 2.4 kernel wiki for October
The October 2000 Kernel Wiki Challenge is ... "The most misunderstood part about in Linux 2.4 is " 1) Fill in the blanks, short and sweet, in your own words. 2) Go to http://kernelbook.sourceforge.net/wiki/?KernelWiki find the appropriate subsection of the Wiki covering your area of expertise. 3) Click the "Edit this Page" link 4) Plunk your October KernelWiki response into the text box. 5) Click "Save" and get back to your happy hacking. It's painless. All I want is 10 minutes of your time. You know you know the answers, and if you don't, you know the proper questions to ask. I don't know how I can make it any easier. 10 minutes, 15 tops. No excuses. _Everyone_ has that kind of time to spare for Linux documentation. There are hundreds of competent engineers active on this mailing list. One day's worth of our collective linux-kernel effort, focussed precisely on illuminating some part of the code, would complete several chapters of text. A week's worth would fill a thousand pages. If everyone gives just _10_ _minutes_ a month, we can _completely_ document 2.4 by groundhog day. What do you win? Do it right, and you might cause that "transmission of light" that nets you some assistance in your kernel hacking. WARNING: I am going to persist in nagging you to participate, but no more than once a month ;) Put me in your kill file if you will but if KernelWiki is ignored or abused, it dies. I leave it at the mercy of the court. If you have more than 15 minutes to spare and you are interested in what it is that I'm up to with this Wiki thing, you are invited to read http://kernelbook.sourceforge.net/wiki/?KernelWikiWhy http://kernelbook.sourceforge.net/wiki/?KernelWikiPolicies http://kernelbook.sourceforge.net/wiki/?HowToUseWiki -- Gary Lawrence Murphy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> TeleDynamics Communications Inc Business Innovations Through Open Source Systems: http://www.teledyn.com "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers."(Pablo Picasso) - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Linux 2.4 kernel wiki for October
The October 2000 Kernel Wiki Challenge is ... "The most misunderstood part about in Linux 2.4 is " 1) Fill in the blanks, short and sweet, in your own words. 2) Go to http://kernelbook.sourceforge.net/wiki/?KernelWiki find the appropriate subsection of the Wiki covering your area of expertise. 3) Click the "Edit this Page" link 4) Plunk your October KernelWiki response into the text box. 5) Click "Save" and get back to your happy hacking. It's painless. All I want is 10 minutes of your time. You know you know the answers, and if you don't, you know the proper questions to ask. I don't know how I can make it any easier. 10 minutes, 15 tops. No excuses. _Everyone_ has that kind of time to spare for Linux documentation. There are hundreds of competent engineers active on this mailing list. One day's worth of our collective linux-kernel effort, focussed precisely on illuminating some part of the code, would complete several chapters of text. A week's worth would fill a thousand pages. If everyone gives just _10_ _minutes_ a month, we can _completely_ document 2.4 by groundhog day. What do you win? Do it right, and you might cause that "transmission of light" that nets you some assistance in your kernel hacking. WARNING: I am going to persist in nagging you to participate, but no more than once a month ;) Put me in your kill file if you will but if KernelWiki is ignored or abused, it dies. I leave it at the mercy of the court. If you have more than 15 minutes to spare and you are interested in what it is that I'm up to with this Wiki thing, you are invited to read http://kernelbook.sourceforge.net/wiki/?KernelWikiWhy http://kernelbook.sourceforge.net/wiki/?KernelWikiPolicies http://kernelbook.sourceforge.net/wiki/?HowToUseWiki -- Gary Lawrence Murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED] TeleDynamics Communications Inc Business Innovations Through Open Source Systems: http://www.teledyn.com "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers."(Pablo Picasso) - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Standard Linux (Was What is up with Redhat 7.0?)
There is no need for a law requiring a 'standard' kernel in any distro, and there is no chance people would follow any such rule. So long as people know their distro kernel is patched and, if they want to apply some 3rd party patch, we advise them they may want to obtain and install 'clean' sources from kernel.org. This is the approach I take in my kernel-config chapters for the Unleashed books, and it is also the advice given on the RedHat website (or at least it was last I looked) Anyone who knows they need and will apply a 3rd party patch likely knows how to obtain and compile a fresh kernel (or can follow my chapter ;) A case in point is the Trelos Win4Linux windows 'emulator'. This is shipped as a patch against what I call "the cannonical sources" and fails on some of the more exotic distros. Frankly, I don't think Trelos should bother shipping 'distro flavours' of their patch, and instead, distros should ship a diff-set which would incrementally migrate cannonical sources to match their distro package. That way, if I want Trelos' software, I get the kernel.org sources, patch them for Trelos, then selectively add what I want from RedHat or Mandrake or Debian or whatever. IMHO, this has a far greater chance of success across a wider range of scenarios. However it goes, though, it is not our problem, it is entirely up to the distros to sort this out among themselves and the ISVs. -- Gary Lawrence Murphy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: office voice/fax: 01 519 4222723 T(!c)Inc Business Innovation through Open Source http://www.teledyn.com M:I-3 - Documenting the Linux kernel: http://kernelbook.sourceforge.net "You don't play what you know; you play what you hear." --- Miles Davis - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Standard Linux (Was What is up with Redhat 7.0?)
There is no need for a law requiring a 'standard' kernel in any distro, and there is no chance people would follow any such rule. So long as people know their distro kernel is patched and, if they want to apply some 3rd party patch, we advise them they may want to obtain and install 'clean' sources from kernel.org. This is the approach I take in my kernel-config chapters for the Unleashed books, and it is also the advice given on the RedHat website (or at least it was last I looked) Anyone who knows they need and will apply a 3rd party patch likely knows how to obtain and compile a fresh kernel (or can follow my chapter ;) A case in point is the Trelos Win4Linux windows 'emulator'. This is shipped as a patch against what I call "the cannonical sources" and fails on some of the more exotic distros. Frankly, I don't think Trelos should bother shipping 'distro flavours' of their patch, and instead, distros should ship a diff-set which would incrementally migrate cannonical sources to match their distro package. That way, if I want Trelos' software, I get the kernel.org sources, patch them for Trelos, then selectively add what I want from RedHat or Mandrake or Debian or whatever. IMHO, this has a far greater chance of success across a wider range of scenarios. However it goes, though, it is not our problem, it is entirely up to the distros to sort this out among themselves and the ISVs. -- Gary Lawrence Murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED]: office voice/fax: 01 519 4222723 T(!c)Inc Business Innovation through Open Source http://www.teledyn.com M:I-3 - Documenting the Linux kernel: http://kernelbook.sourceforge.net "You don't play what you know; you play what you hear." --- Miles Davis - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Availability of kdb
>>>>> "A" == Alexander Viro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: A> As for the "greater social good" (or world domination, for that A> matter) - excuse me, but quite a few of us couldn't care A> less. Thanks for the comment, and please don't feel guilty about it, it is a perfectly valid reason for Linux. It is also what I suspected by looking at the structure of the code: IMHO, Linux (ie the kernel) is the _ultimate_ "user friendly" software product ... _iff_ you consider the "users" as the programmers themselves. I know of no other piece of software which gives its users such depth of community. I also frequently see vetos and approvals on this list where the final rationale is social rather than technical. There is no fault or evil in this, and social reasons are important to ensuring the community functions. Just so long as we all understand that this is the purpose of Linux. In a very early interview (c.1993?), Linus gave a list of requirements which begins with Linux being fun to work on for himself, and then for other developers. For some, it is. You might say Linux has succeeded because it is a 'playground' for developers, a place where they _like_ to contribute and where there are no project managers, marketing or QA people saying "you must do this and that by next Tuesday". This is perfectly fine. The playground atmosphere sets it apart from its more staid and serious competition. Linux need not set out to rule or save the world. It is a gift, and we can take it or leave it as we wish. But ... wouldn't we avoid a lot of these technical merit discussions of this or that method or technique (kdb, reiserfs, ) if we were more open about its purpose? -- Gary Lawrence Murphy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: office voice/fax: 01 519 4222723 T(!c)Inc Business Innovation through Open Source http://www.teledyn.com M:I-3 - Documenting the Linux kernel: http://kernelbook.sourceforge.net "You don't play what you know; you play what you hear." --- Miles Davis - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Availability of kdb
>>>>> "H" == Horst von Brand <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: H> In the end, this is Linus' game. If you want to play, you'll H> have to pay the admission price he sets. Is it fair to ask about the purpose of Linux? The purpose I most often hear talks about world domination and about having the best O/S on the maximum number of platforms, with appeals to "open source" to ensure quality control and technical progress. That goal says nothing about the grain of the wood or the vanity of the carpenter. It is all about being of service to a greater social good. Maybe I misunderstood. The analogy to typing hex codes or toggling code at the console is also apt. Unix ascended over Multix in no small part because of C, which drew sneers from the trad programmer of the day. Personally, I tend to debug intuitively based on my knowledge of code, but not exclusively. In my 25 years in this business, I have seen amazing things done with debuggers, things that had stumped whole teams of very good programmers. Intuition still plays a vital role, but gdb in the right hands can prove things that would take months of code tweaking to do by hand. I'll risk yet another metaphor ;) ... While composing music, I can use a pen and staff paper and work out harmonic and melogic lines at a piano, but I limit myself. With much respect to the pre-digital composers, this work is prohibitively tedious and demands a vibrant imagination when you must produce 102 parts for an orchestra, and this method severely restricted the harmonic sense of pre-electronic composition as they grafted the wave-form harmonics of the piano to all other instruments. Harry Partch took us one step towards a different sense of harmony, but had to rest on ideal and imaginary instruments because he could not manage the complexity of instrument timbres using manual methods. Also, if I want to be modern, if I need to step outside the euro-centric equal-tempered scale and classical rhythm, notation quickly becomes a handicap (see John Cage's "Notations"). Using software tools, I gain fine control, I can more rapidly experiment with scenarios, and I can manage many orders of magnitude more complexity. I find the same is true with software tools. Tools should serve and extend the body, not enslave the mind. Yes, I can walk to my nearest village and yes I will see more fine detail of nature if I walk and will excercise my heart, but my bicycle makes it practical to do this 20km trek as a day trip, and a car makes it possible to go shopping. It all depends on my purpose. -- Gary Lawrence Murphy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: office voice/fax: 01 519 4222723 T(!c)Inc Business Innovation through Open Source http://www.teledyn.com M:I-3 - Documenting the Linux kernel: http://kernelbook.sourceforge.net "You don't play what you know; you play what you hear." --- Miles Davis - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Availability of kdb
"H" == Horst von Brand [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: H In the end, this is Linus' game. If you want to play, you'll H have to pay the admission price he sets. Is it fair to ask about the purpose of Linux? The purpose I most often hear talks about world domination and about having the best O/S on the maximum number of platforms, with appeals to "open source" to ensure quality control and technical progress. That goal says nothing about the grain of the wood or the vanity of the carpenter. It is all about being of service to a greater social good. Maybe I misunderstood. The analogy to typing hex codes or toggling code at the console is also apt. Unix ascended over Multix in no small part because of C, which drew sneers from the trad programmer of the day. Personally, I tend to debug intuitively based on my knowledge of code, but not exclusively. In my 25 years in this business, I have seen amazing things done with debuggers, things that had stumped whole teams of very good programmers. Intuition still plays a vital role, but gdb in the right hands can prove things that would take months of code tweaking to do by hand. I'll risk yet another metaphor ;) ... While composing music, I can use a pen and staff paper and work out harmonic and melogic lines at a piano, but I limit myself. With much respect to the pre-digital composers, this work is prohibitively tedious and demands a vibrant imagination when you must produce 102 parts for an orchestra, and this method severely restricted the harmonic sense of pre-electronic composition as they grafted the wave-form harmonics of the piano to all other instruments. Harry Partch took us one step towards a different sense of harmony, but had to rest on ideal and imaginary instruments because he could not manage the complexity of instrument timbres using manual methods. Also, if I want to be modern, if I need to step outside the euro-centric equal-tempered scale and classical rhythm, notation quickly becomes a handicap (see John Cage's "Notations"). Using software tools, I gain fine control, I can more rapidly experiment with scenarios, and I can manage many orders of magnitude more complexity. I find the same is true with software tools. Tools should serve and extend the body, not enslave the mind. Yes, I can walk to my nearest village and yes I will see more fine detail of nature if I walk and will excercise my heart, but my bicycle makes it practical to do this 20km trek as a day trip, and a car makes it possible to go shopping. It all depends on my purpose. -- Gary Lawrence Murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED]: office voice/fax: 01 519 4222723 T(!c)Inc Business Innovation through Open Source http://www.teledyn.com M:I-3 - Documenting the Linux kernel: http://kernelbook.sourceforge.net "You don't play what you know; you play what you hear." --- Miles Davis - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Availability of kdb
"A" == Alexander Viro [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: A As for the "greater social good" (or world domination, for that A matter) - excuse me, but quite a few of us couldn't care A less. Thanks for the comment, and please don't feel guilty about it, it is a perfectly valid reason for Linux. It is also what I suspected by looking at the structure of the code: IMHO, Linux (ie the kernel) is the _ultimate_ "user friendly" software product ... _iff_ you consider the "users" as the programmers themselves. I know of no other piece of software which gives its users such depth of community. I also frequently see vetos and approvals on this list where the final rationale is social rather than technical. There is no fault or evil in this, and social reasons are important to ensuring the community functions. Just so long as we all understand that this is the purpose of Linux. In a very early interview (c.1993?), Linus gave a list of requirements which begins with Linux being fun to work on for himself, and then for other developers. For some, it is. You might say Linux has succeeded because it is a 'playground' for developers, a place where they _like_ to contribute and where there are no project managers, marketing or QA people saying "you must do this and that by next Tuesday". This is perfectly fine. The playground atmosphere sets it apart from its more staid and serious competition. Linux need not set out to rule or save the world. It is a gift, and we can take it or leave it as we wish. But ... wouldn't we avoid a lot of these technical merit discussions of this or that method or technique (kdb, reiserfs, c) if we were more open about its purpose? -- Gary Lawrence Murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED]: office voice/fax: 01 519 4222723 T(!c)Inc Business Innovation through Open Source http://www.teledyn.com M:I-3 - Documenting the Linux kernel: http://kernelbook.sourceforge.net "You don't play what you know; you play what you hear." --- Miles Davis - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
